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View Full Version : The Second Triumvirate [SPOILERS]


Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 13:51
BRIEF SYNOPSIS

It is revealed in Anniversary that the God-Queen Natla of Atlantis betrayed her fellow rulers Qualopec and Tihocan. She wanted to manipulate the Scion to re-establish the Atlantean race, saying that "everything must burn" before she does so. Qualopec and Tihocan sentenced her to perpetual entombment in a crystal chamber.

The remaining two of the triumvirate both got their piece of the Scion, vowing to keep all three apart (including Natla's) so that no being will ever keep the powerful artifact for themselves and unleashing its true power upon combining all three. Qualopec guarded his piece of the Scion until his death in the ancient city of Vilcabamba. Presumed to have been the ruler of the Peruvian civilization, a tomb was made in Qualopec's name where her spent the rest of his life watching over his piece of the Scion as he remained sitting on his throne.

Tihocan, on the other hand, had his tomb built in the land of Greece. There, just like Qualopec, he spent the rest of his life guarding his piece of the Scion. Natla's piece was kept hidden in the land of Egypt. The chamber of which had evidences of the art of an advanced civilization.

Fast-forward to the present. Natla is released from her chamber by an explosion in 1945. Natla's abilities garnered her decades to live to establish her identity in the modern human world, adopting the name Jacqueline Natla and building an empire of her own helmed as Natla Technologies. She hires men to fulfill her agenda of gathering all three pieces of the Scion, and among them was Lara Croft.

Natla learns that Lara and her father Richard Croft have been searching for the Scion for years, and uses this to lure her into getting the Scion for her. True enough, Natla double-crosses Lara, apparently not confident that Lara would give her the Scion once she obtains it.

In the end, Natla obtains all three pieces with the help of her hired men. Lara, however, faces Natla and is driven to stop the Atlantean goddess from realizing her plans, convinced that this would greatly harm the modern human civilization. Natla invites Lara to rule WITH her, saying that Qualopec and Tihocan were too weak to comprehend and shoulder the coming of the "Seventh Age", the presumed age of the re-established civilization of Atlantis.

It takes three to rule. Qualopec and Tihocan were too weak to destroy what stands in the way of the Seventh Age. But YOU have the strength to claim this seat beside me.

You're here because you belong here, Lara.

Upon Natla's defeat (and Lara's disapproval of Natla's invitation), Natla says that there are more places from which she can revive Atlantis. And during the course of their fight, says that she "can never die."

THE SECOND TRIUMVIRATE

And hereon starts the speculation. The original triumvirate consisted of Qualopec, Natla, and Tihocan. Apparently, Qualopec and Tihocan have lost their respective pieces of the Scion to Natla.

Atlantean Triumvirate: Qualopec, Natla, and Tihocan.

And as per Natla's remarks, she has been scheming of ways to effectively manipulate the power of the Scion, with two NEW rulers to stand by her. One of them would be Lara.

Had Lara accepted Natla's offer, there would be two-thirds of the triumvirate. But who did Natla have in mind to ascend to the throne as the last part of the triumvirate?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Pierre?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Larson?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kold?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kid?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Richard Croft?

This may be senseless speculation at first, but might potentially be a mind-boggler of things to come. In Lara's official biography, it is mentioned that Richard Croft was MISSING in Cambodia. His body was never found. Where could he have gone? Did Natla ever have something to do with it?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Amanda, and Rutland?

In Legend, the crates in Bolivia had marks on them which read as: Natla INDUSTRIES. Apparently, Legend takes place years after the events in Anniversary. If we were not to dismiss the crates as mere Easter Eggs, can it be deduced then that Natla Technologies was carried on by someone else to be expanded? If yes, who?

And if Natla was alive after the collapse of the Great Pyramid in Anniversary, would she then be continuing her search for a new triumvirate and pursuing the coming of the Seventh Age?

LARA's Triumvirate: Qualopec, Lara and Tihocan.

Again, just mere speculation. Knowing CD, they have a lot of tricks up their sleeves. They can pull off just about the biggest twists in a game's storyline. In Anniversary, Qualopec and Tihocan were suggested to still be alive. Qualopec was shown rising from the dead in his chamber before it completely collapsed. Tihocan, on the other hand, was nowhere to be found in his tomb in Greece. Where could these to rulers be? And what if, in a future game, Lara does get all three pieces of the Scion, would she use it to finally eliminate Natla (assuming she's still alive) WITH Qualopec and Tihocan?

Now do pardon me for my random speculations. It's just that I've just finished the game, and all my mind did was to put my imagination in motion. Here's hoping that I'm not only running on imagination and fan-made speculations, but also on logic and some amount of deep understanding.

:p

EDIT: Blackgrey posted a similar sentiment in another thread.

Well, I have another theory to throw into the giant pot of therios we have circulating the forums.

There are some missing links that could just be holes in dialogue and just simple guesswork but I'll leave you to be the judge of that. I'll just share with you what I think is a possible link. (Lara in italics!)

"It takes three to rule." "Tihocan and Qualopec were too weak to destroy what stands in the way of the seventh age."

... Just typed that up and made me think what does stand in the way of the seventh age? Anyway I'll get to what I wanted to say and you can ponder that while you read the rest I've typed.

"But you have the strength to take this seat beside me."

"Immortality has its price."

"But what are a few lives to sacrifice for your dreams."

"This is madness!"

"This is what you've been searching for."

"The answers you've sought your entire life are within the scion; everything you've done has led you to this place."

"You're here because you belong here Lara."

Okay... It takes THREE to rule. So Lara has an invite and who else? Who else did Amanda, I mean natala have in mind :D Oh and doesn't Natla have wings... Nephilims have wings too. Tell you what, those symbols around the tombs and on the bacon Natla look rather alot like the tatoos on Amanda. Finally, the circle that we battled Natla doesn't have sniff of one of those time portals we saw in Legend.

So what am I blabbing about. Well it takes three to rule, this could just be that Natla didn't have three and Lara was the first to get an invite into the triumeverate OR someone else could have been invited before Lara and she was the third.

What if Natla escaped that pyramid before it collapsed? That circle of pillars did look fishy and I doubt a pillar crushed the girl, I mean she's a villan, they don't die that easily. There are small breadcrumbs of evidence that such a possibility is likely, that she didn't die. The presence Natala crates at the end of Legend and the sign in Tokyo before it was re-worked, looked as if it read Natla. Call me mad but it adds up to a very weak link to Amanda and Natla.

For one moment lets assume that Natla did escape, using a more primative version or an original of the several time portals that were created (shown in Legend), much later on, around the world. In Legend, somehow, Amanda knew about the time portals and she got to the first one before Lara did. Was she either a contact or the daughter of Natla and that's how she knew about the Avalon myth and its connections. Was she trying to get back to the past for Natla before Lara destroyed the scion so that, intact, they could use it to bring about the seventh age.

Now lets assume that after Tomb Raider I, Lara refuses to stop searching for more ways about finding what happened to her mother and the rest of the adventures (TR1 to TR3) lead to TR8. I say up to TR3 because Amanda had wings. Yes the Nephilim had wings and there is, a very weak one but a link none the less to TR6 and TR6 could have been Natla trying to wake the Nephilim, to build her army for the seventh age.

In conclusion, in all my hypothesising and assuming, the theory I believe to be quite nearest to the story path of Legend is: Natla is somehow in contact with Amanda (wether she escaped or through some other way) and that Amanda wanted to get to the time portal before Lara to go back to the moment before Lara shot the bullet into the centre of scion, stop Lara and finish Natla's handy work, by bringing about the seventh age. Now to rule the seventh age Amanda would need three if Natala wasn't there in the time that Legend takes place. So that COULD have been Amanda, Rutland and... Amelia! The rest of my theory also revolves around the idea that the TR series created by core, is being left in the loop, to show how Lara has searched her life for more answers to her mothers dissaperance.

So am near the truth or just plain guessing?

Now on with the discussion!

MinoDan
25-06-07, 14:07
Interesting read. During Natla and Laras final discussion it was made clear that Natla was aware of the annihalation of her team/henchman rendering the following pairings unlikely.

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Pierre?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Larson?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kold?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kid?

When we are already on the Legend/Anniversary crossing.
Did you thought of...

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Amanda.

Jack Croft
25-06-07, 14:11
Very Cool specualtion!

I like the sound of Natla, Amanda and Lara MinoDan :D

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:11
Interesting read. During Natla and Laras final discussion it was made clear that Natla was aware of the annihalation of her team/henchman rendering the following pairings unlikely.

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Pierre?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Larson?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kold?

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Kid?

When we are already on the Legend/Anniversary crossing.
Did you thought of...

Natla's Triumvirate: Natla, Lara, and Amanda.

Hmm. Actually no. :D Has a nice ring to it. I think Amanda would easily fall for Natla's invitation. Her craving for knowledge about the various ancient civilizations can no doubt make her fall for being one of the rulers of the civilization that started all the other civilizations. No better deal than that for Amanda! :ohn: :p

Risak
25-06-07, 14:13
Natla, Amanda and Winston.

Alex Fly
25-06-07, 14:16
Hmm interesting speculation. :tmb:

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:17
Natla, Amanda and Winston.

:vlol: I don't think that would work. :ohn:

Risak
25-06-07, 14:19
:vlol: I don't think that would work. :ohn:

Alister, Zip and Winston.


?

Sara Croft
25-06-07, 14:25
Natla, Amanda and Winston.
Alister, Zip and Winston.
:vlol:
Nice read btw, but I dont think Natla had anyone in her mind at the time, but IF anyone, i would guess Amanda since Amanda is so obsessed with coming to Avalon and for all Lara(we) knows, Avalon could just be another name for atlantis. Perhaps Lara`s 'trial' was to obtain the scion while Amanda`s 'trial' was to find another piece of Atlantis?

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:25
Alister, Zip and Winston.


?

A big NO THANKS. That would kill the franchise. :cln:

Alex Fly
25-06-07, 14:26
What about Amelia ?

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:28
:vlol:
Nice read btw, but I dont think Natla had anyone in her mind at the time, but IF anyone, i would guess Amanda since Amanda is so obsessed with coming to Avalon and for all Lara(we) knows, Avalon could just be another name for atlantis. Perhaps Lara`s 'trial' was to obtain the scion while Amanda`s 'trial' was to find another piece of Atlantis?

Hmm. Would make sense if Natla really had THAT much of a scheme over all that's been happening from Anniversary until Legend. Natla did mention that there's another "piece" of Atlantis. And, yes, Avalon could just be another variation of the legend. Anyway, props to Lara for impressing a goddess with her humane archaeological and acrobatic skills. Won her that much of an accolade; better yet, an offer to be a goddess herself.

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:31
What about Amelia ?

:yik:

Yeah, completely left her out. :ohn: If anything, all we know of her disappearance was that she was transported to a place "called" Avalon...or was she?

Hmm. Natla, Richard, and Amelia would be an interesting bunch for the Second Triumvirate. :cln: Although I'd be willing to wager that that'll get too much bashing from the Legend storyline detractors. I'm all for it though. As long as it's done properly. Heck, I'm even up for Lara being part of the triumvirate and Larson making a come-back. C'mon, CD, bring on your surprises!

MinoDan
25-06-07, 14:31
Hmm. Actually no. :D Has a nice ring to it. I think Amanda would easily fall for Natla's invitation. Her craving for knowledge about the various ancient civilizations can no doubt make her fall for being one of the rulers of the civilization that started all the other civilizations. No better deal than that for Amanda! :ohn: :p

Actually that could be the key to Tomb Raider 1!
Lets just say the events in Paraiso occured in 1994. We know that Lara and Amanda had a deep friendship and we know that the events in Paraiso are responsible for Amandas corruption.

After Amanda freed herself, infected with the wraith creature and sharing its knowledge, she started research about the "Sword in the Stone" myth. What if Natla approached Amanda and financed her. Seeing much of herself in the young girl she revealed herself as the former Queen of Atlantis, offering Amanda a place at her side. In exchange for obidience and support in regaining the "Scion of Atlantis".

"Scion of Atlantis"? Doesn't that ring a bell. Didn't Lara mention that artifact in realtion to her father and his doomed quest to find Laras mother Amelia.

What if Amanda was the person who introduced Natla to Lara in the first place; Giving Natla the background information about our hero and her family?
Advising Natla that Lara could be an asset to their cause!

When Natla was killed/rendered incapable of action, at the hands of our heroine, Amanda took over Natla Industries/Technologies staging her ascension to Avalon and revenge on Lara.

Sara Croft
25-06-07, 14:31
What about Amelia ?
I dont think Natla had her in mind, but perhaps now. Natla seems to be very manupilative and if Lara ever encounters Amelia as a queen of atlantis, im sure there would come some complications.

BlackGrey
25-06-07, 14:35
I came up with this before you! :ton: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1920288&postcount=28 Maybe not as concise and as long winded but I did try.

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 14:41
Actually that could be the key to Tomb Raider 1!
Lets just say the events in Paraiso occured in 1994. We know that Lara and Amanda had a deep friendship and we know that the events in Paraiso are responsible for Amandas corruption.

After Amanda freed herself, infected with the wraith creature and sharing its knowledge, she started research about the "Sword in the Stone" myth. What if Natla approached Amanda and financed her. Seeing much of herself in the young girl she revealed herself as the former Queen of Atlantis, offering Amanda a place at her side. In exchange for obidience and support in regaining the "Scion of Atlantis".

"Scion of Atlantis"? Doesn't that ring a bell. Didn't Lara mention that artifact in realtion to her father and his doomed quest to find Laras mother Amelia.

What if Amanda was the person who introduced Natla to Lara in the first place; Giving Natla the background information about our hero and her family?
Advising Natla that Lara could be an asset to their cause!

When Natla was killed/rendered incapable of action, at the hands of our heroine, Amanda took over Natla Industries/Technologies staging her ascension to Avalon and revenge on Lara.

Now that's total imaginative speculation right there! :D May be speculation, but makes ABSOLUTE sense.

I dont think Natla had her in mind, but perhaps now. Natla seems to be very manupilative and if Lara ever encounters Amelia as a queen of atlantis, im sure there would come some complications.

"Complications" would be an understatement.

I came up with this before you! :ton: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=1920288&postcount=28

You wouldn't mind if I quote you on the first post, right? :D This aspect of the Anniversary storyline deserves its own thread! :tmb:

BlackGrey
25-06-07, 14:48
Now that's total imaginative speculation right there! :D May be speculation, but makes ABSOLUTE sense.



"Complications" would be an understatement.



You wouldn't mind if I quote you on the first post, right? :D This aspect of the Anniversary storyline deserves its own thread! :tmb:

I'd be honoured if you quoted me :D Whatever I have to say on the matter is in my post so I shall wait to discuss this futher.

Yuna´s Wish
25-06-07, 15:01
Very nice read Jin! :tmb: The idea of having Lara´s Triumvirate sounds magnificent IMHO...Qualopec and Tihocan are sort of alive apparently. And this time they´re to destroy Natla, not just imprison her...but maybe they needed to create a new triumvirate to be able to kill one of the former members :confused:
When Natla got the Scion in the end of Sanctuary of the Scion she didn´t intend to have Lara as one of her Triumvirate. She tells Kold, Kid and Larson to kill her instead. But when Natla learns that Kold, Kid and even Larson are dead she knew she had nobody to choose from...so the almighty killer and strong Lara Croft who had reached the deepest core of her lair was an obvious choice now that she had nobody else. However, her servants didn´t know she was the Queen of Atlantis until the SotC cutscene, so they just worked for money, not for a throne beside Jacquie. I believe Natla had Pierre and Larson in mind, but she also had Kold and Kid in mind...if she was to combine them, she´d have chosen Kold and Larson (Kold just wants to kill and is easy to control, while Larson can think and I´m sure Natla liked him) :D

Jin Uzuki
25-06-07, 15:09
Very nice read Jin! :tmb: The idea of having Lara´s Triumvirate sounds magnificent IMHO...Qualopec and Tihocan are sort of alive apparently. And this time they´re to destroy Natla, not just imprison her...but maybe they needed to create a new triumvirate to be able to kill one of the former members :confused:
When Natla got the Scion in the end of Sanctuary of the Scion she didn´t intend to have Lara as one of her Triumvirate. She tells Kold, Kid and Larson to kill her instead. But when Natla learns that Kold, Kid and even Larson are dead she knew she had nobody to choose from...so the almighty killer and strong Lara Croft who had reached the deepest core of her lair was an obvious choice now that she had nobody else. However, her servants didn´t know she was the Queen of Atlantis until the SotC cutscene, so they just worked for money, not for a throne beside Jacquie. I believe Natla had Pierre and Larson in mind, but she also had Kold and Kid in mind...if she was to combine them, she´d have chosen Kold and Larson (Kold just wants to kill and is easy to control, while Larson can think and I´m sure Natla liked him) :D

I myself get tingly when I think of Lara being part of a triumvirate including Q and T. Although that would be such a MAJOR leap in the franchise. I'd wager that if ever CD does this, Lara's powers would only be temporary and would end it in such a way that Lara chooses to give up whatever power she's gotten from being a triumvirate member.

And, yes, you have a point about Natla having a lot of options for her new triumvirate. If I were Natla, I'd really be impressed by Lara, a mere mortal who can make it all the way to my ancient Atlantean lair. Obvious choice, really. Pierre and Larson being Natla's fellow triumvirate partners would be a good one too I think. They died though, which is too bad.

I.Am.Natla
25-06-07, 16:38
IMO Natla always had Lara in mind for an oppurtunity on the throne, and she was merely testing her to see if she could escape when she ordered her to die etc.

Serval Boy
25-06-07, 16:48
Natla, Amanda, and Sophia


:D kidding!

bloodstormaoa
25-06-07, 16:50
This isn't directed solely at you Serval Boy........but where are people getting Sophia Leigh from:confused: Like seriously, why?

Zebra
25-06-07, 16:52
I think Natla's Plan was that there are only two rulers of Atlantis. Originally she probably wanted to be the Queen of Atlantis without any others. But than when Lara became to be dangerous she saw that the only chance to get that what she wanted to get was to involve Lara into her plan.

(sorry for my not soo good english :D)

Serval Boy
25-06-07, 16:56
I'm the only one that mentioned Sophia, I think :) And I did that in jest - I know that you know I was only joking :)

Together, Natla, Sophia, and Amanda create the triad of fem fatales!

bloodstormaoa
25-06-07, 17:00
Lol!!! Femme Fatale? Sophia? No, even Amanda has more personality :vlol:

I think others put them together cos they're all blond :rolleyes: Pretty silly connection IMO

Again not directed at you per se, loads of people have made the connection :D

Serval Boy
25-06-07, 17:02
kay, kay. Then how about this triumvirate:

Natla, Randy, and Rory

gtkilla
25-06-07, 17:04
This thread is great! :jmp: It's so interesting to hear everyone's theories. :D

GodOfLight
25-06-07, 17:35
wow some of these theories are great. i especially like BlackGreys theory with Amanda... it makes perfect sense! Although i'm sort of hoping this isnt what CD have planned, simply because i cannot stand Amanda :o

Honestly, call me ignorant, but when Natla mentioned the three who need to rule, i automatically thought what seemed to me the most obvious:

Natla, Lara, and the Torso Boss Creature :o

yes, it may seem silly at first since everyone here is listing names of people and proper characters... but i honestly always saw it (even since TR1) that Natla had plans to conquer the world and rule it with her torso monster... and no Lara was simply added to the mix in TRA.

dinahcat
25-06-07, 17:37
Here's a thought...if we are to assume that there is a possible Nephilim tie-in (from the first posted theory) then why couldn't one of the possible triumvirate be Eckhardt? His biography reads...

"An insane fourteenth century genius known as The Black Alchemist. After 500 years imprisonment in a containment pit he escaped in 1945 and set about reviving the biblical race known as the Nelphilim. "


Natla and Eckhardt BOTH escaped containment devices in 1945 and set to work trying to revive an ancient race. Coincidence? Maybe the nephilim ARE the winged mutants? Hmmm....

Is there a connection in AOD that we will see revived, as well?

_Lam
25-06-07, 18:13
This is why I like TR, such a good plot find a lot of answers missing ! I really hope that there's a link between all the TR.

But I think that everything turn around Natla, all the other ennemies (Amanda, Rutland, Karel, Werner...) were just part of Natla's plan to reach this unknow Sevent Age !

And we know that Atlantis is the origin of all the civilisation (Egypt in TR4, Nephilim, King Arthur and Avalon)...

And I think that TR2-TR3 are have no link with the other episode, it's just a normal adventure for Lara to get more artefact.

And I hope that Natla will be back because it's my favorite ennemies and she's far more powerfull than all the other nemesis we saw ! God I can't wait for TR8 ! :jmp:

MrBear
25-06-07, 19:44
wow some of these theories are great. i especially like BlackGreys theory with Amanda... it makes perfect sense! Although i'm sort of hoping this isnt what CD have planned, simply because i cannot stand Amanda :o.

Finally someone said it! I was reading through the thread thinking 'it's impossible that noone feels like I do', but at least there was one :)

I don't disagree with the connections and I would certainly not be surprised if Amanda and Natla turn out to be connected in some way... but GOD I hope not! seriously, Amanda is so not fit to rule an alien race alongside Natla, who is the perfect villain... also, I think of Natla as quite arrogant towards the human race, so in my mind she would never allow a cry-girl like Amanda to get that much power... I PRAY that Amanda's role in the next TR is minor at best... does anyone even like Amanda as a master villain?? seriously? she was fine in Legend, I guess, but in my opinion she was just someone who fancied the thought of going to Avalon and fortunately stumpled upon some ancient power (Unknown Entity) in Paraiso to help her..

and also, Kid as part of the Triumvirate? Kold?? Mr. Got-no-Legs??? sorry, but these theories just don't make sense to me... no offense :) not even Pierre or Larson.. they were henchmen, needed by Natla to do the dirty work...

I haven't played AoD, but I wouldn't mind a link between this Eckhardt (correct spelled..?) and Natla, based on what I've read in the AoD section :)

I like reading all of your theories, don't get me wrong.. but Pierre, Larson, Kid, Kold, Amanda, Rutland etc. as part of the Scion's Triumvirate is just plain degrading in my opinion, degrading towards the Atlantean race and Natla, Tihocan and Qualopec...

keep up the connection-findings! although, if you keep advancing at the same rate we would probably end up getting disappointed once TR8 is released :D

:wve:

Sara Croft
25-06-07, 20:08
Eckhardt is dead im afraid, but Karel would be a excellent adittion. He is a nephilim afterall ;)
Natla, Karel and Lara was perhaps Natla's plan, but Lara didnt go for it sooo... Perhaps Amelia or Richard, though that would be a bit boring.. But seeing Amelia or Richard twisted and willing to kill Lara would be fun :mis:

AndrewNi
25-06-07, 21:37
Assuming there was a third person (and not the Torso boss as mentioned earlier) then the conditions are to have a black heart and be strong, I assume.

I rule out Larson straight off the bat. I don't think his heart was black. I also rule out Pierre, who could have killed Lara at the start but chose not to. It was not black enough. The kid is weak, given his gang was destroyed. But Kold... as far as I can see, Natla's bodyguard was the only candidate out of TR:A that might have fit. But he's dead!

Who would be strong enough and have a black heart... Amanda? She had to have been corrupted somehow during the absence. Someone already mentioned that Natla could have offered her the funding to find the sword (the key to the portal thing) AND to become the ruler of Atlantis though that gate. Amanda would have her revenge on Lara too for deserting her, as Lara would not have access to her mother. The Triumvirate would then be Natla, Amanda and Rutland. The Scion was not destroyed, but just separated again, and was useless because the only earthly remains might have been Atlantis' capital city with the volcano pyramid.

I'm sort of babbling but this storyline is great :D

dinahcat
25-06-07, 21:55
Eckhardt is dead im afraid, but Karel would be a excellent adittion. He is a nephilim afterall

Or *IS* Ekhardt dead? He was imprisoned for 500 years, so who knows if he is truly immortal?

Karel would be cool, especially if the Nephilim were really the Atlanteans...maybe Karel is Tihocan!!!

FomarThain
26-06-07, 00:25
...I myself get tingly when I think of Lara being part of a triumvirate including Q and T. Although that would be such a MAJOR leap in the franchise. I'd wager that if ever CD does this, Lara's powers would only be temporary and would end it in such a way that Lara chooses to give up whatever power she's gotten from being a triumvirate member....

Not only would that be a MAJOR leap it would be an insane leap indicating (to me) CD has no idea where to go with Lara and the franchise.

I love CD through the LoK series and have complete confidence in their storytelling ability so I don't think that is where this is heading. Lara as a member of the triumvirate would be so out of the realm of what is Tomb Raider it is mind boggling imo. To me that would make no sense. Lara is the wild card, the nuisance, the spoiler of all these evil plot things that happen in the Tomb Raider games. For her to be part of a triumvirate and then give up her powers seems way way out there to me. Or even ever have "powers" to give up!

I could see how through her actions Tichon and Qualopec(sp?) are aided in destroying Natla. That to me sounds more like one who intervenes and thus more Tomb Raider like. But taking a seat at the table? Even placing the character Lara in a situation where she has "powers" to give up? Hmm don't think so. Just sounds out of whack with the games and a huge road block in that it puts the believability of future games in doubt. She gives up a seat at the table and goes back to robbing tombs? Just doesn't sound very plausible to me.

Story wise it makes sense that Natla (in TRA) would send out the invitation to Lara to take a seat but we as fans knew, even though it was a good cut scene, that was never gonna happen. Also I think that invite was a result simply because Lara made her way there and Natla had no reason not to offer it as Lara knew a lot already and maybe to much? Maybe the offer wasn't genuine? Anyway my point is that I don't think it was premeditated. I don't see the search for the Scion as a test Natla set up to see if Lara was worthy. I think (to me) it makes more sense that where the pieces of the Scion were located were paces that Natla couldn't go, hence her not getting the pieces herself, with relative ease I might add.

As for Kid, Kold, Larson, and Pierre... minor players to me. Having not played TR1 (started with 2) I am still dumbfounded by the fact Kid was even in the game. The once (and still powerful... and wealthy) Queen of Atlantis hires a gang punk with his underwear hangin' out as a member of her "crew"? Larson and Kold make sense but Kid... wth? Pierre is just too weak all around imo to be asked to the big dance. Bit player. Pawn more like.

So after that long windedness my bottom line is that if Natla returns, Lara through some form of raiding and/or Legend action will aid Tichon and Qualopec to destroy her. I think in TR8 she'll find out about her mother but I can't see her mother as any kind of god/queen super ruler or her father for that matter. Just trapped maybe? As for Amanda... I think her return is logical and I think she will be even more ****ed. I like the theory that Natla took Amanda under her wing at one point. Maybe the crystal/monster thing was an Atlantis artifact or something? Got Natla’s attention?

Even so there is just something given me an itch about the "takes three to rule" thing. I can't help but think that was a bogus enticement/statement. Something to try and pacify Lara. It’s Natla who wants the Scion. Its Natla who was starting to put it to use on the Lost Island. She wasn't with anyone or made any overtures that I recall that she needed anyone. Even taking in the possibility that at one time she took Amanda under her wing (pun intended:D) I just don’t think that she is one to plan on sharin’ any of the power. Maybe some mighty nice consolation prizes to those that help but far short from some power sharin’ plan. I don't know, I am just fishy about that “three to rule” part. Somethin' just not right about it.....

Anyway that’s my two cents. I have always enjoyed these threads since coming here.:)

EDIT: On reflection I think one of the things that bugs me about the "takes three" thing is that no one seems well placed for some kind of ascendence. Natla is/was a ruler of Atlantis. Tichon. Qualopec... we're talking god kings here right? So Amanda or Lara take their place? Or Rutland? That just sounds wrong to me. They seem like likely ones to help Natla but not ascend to some god king/queen status. I didn't play AoD but that Nephiliem(sp?) thing sounds a more likely candidate. But even then I don't see Natla sharing the throne. But the rest could be sub leaders? Generals? etc. Part of her "court"?

Though if I had my say so in the story I would pit Lara aganist Amanda again (and her cronies) and what she has learned since Boliva and the continued search for her mother as the main storyline. I would use Natla as a reference and "link" between the two story lines and games. That is maybe have Natla really be dead but use her as part of the reason Amanda got to where she is and learned what she has as some here have suggested. Natla as a character would not be in TR8. That is the way I would like anyway.:)

And that really is my final word in this post.=)

LegendLuvr24
26-06-07, 01:57
I'm not sure if I'd want Amanda back unless they can give her more of a backbone, she just didn't seem formidable enough to be a true foe to Lara which is why I think I liked Anniversary so much more.

I would like "Legend II" to tie in with Anniversary though, and have it be this huge complicated shocking plot connection that leaves us with our mouths dropped open in awe. To me that'd be amazing.

I'm hoping the Natla crates were not just a reference to the remake and really meant something.

Jin Uzuki
26-06-07, 06:05
And that really is my final word in this post.=)

Hopefully not in the thread itself. :D You have a lot of insights, I hope to hear more from you. :tmb:

As dinahcat mentioned, it really is interesting how Natla and Eckhardt were both released from entombment in the same year, and how they both have been scheming of reviving a lost race.

Much like how the Arthurian myth has a lot of variations in Legend (queen of Tiwanaku), it wouldn't really come as a surprise to me if the Nephilim race is just how Eckhardt *calls* the race when in fact, they ARE the Atlanteans.

Another connection I've noticed (and have been noticed in the past) is the apparent resemblance of the UKNOWN Entity in Legend. It really is interesting why CD named the monster and UKNOWN Entity. If anything, I think it's a foreshadowing of its revelation as an Atlantean monster. :cln: And if this were true, I think it's quite logical to speculate that the monster was somehow "sent" by "someone" to get in the way of Lara and Amanda in their dig in Peru.

FomarThain
26-06-07, 07:27
We are probably gonna differ on some things...:D:tea:

....but....

I am with you here....

...UKNOWN Entity. If anything, I think it's a foreshadowing of its revelation as an Atlantean monster. :cln: And if this were true, I think it's quite logical to speculate that the monster was somehow "sent" by "someone" to get in the way of Lara and Amanda in their dig in Peru...

As I said in my post I think it is plausible that the crystal thing in TRL might have been some Atlantis artifact. I didn't think about "someone" sending the monster. But it does make me think the "sent' part might have been more along the lines of steering the group to dig at that site to find the crystal vs. just setting the monster loose.

However... that begs the question... why this group? Lara didn't know what the crystal was. At that point it looked like Amanda was as green as bermuda grass. Also is there anything that states what they were looking for there anyway? Was it something in particular or just another found ruin?

It looked to me that the Unknown entity was accidently unleshed by Amanda rather than having it unleshed on her by outside forces especially since she learned to control it and the power of the crystal altogether (by becoming a new monster or the original monster at the end of TRL).

As far as outside forces (Natla) and the dig site are concerned I guess one could make a case that Lara was "tipped off" about something that she thought may help her on the path of rescuing her mother so they went to that site. And obviously it turned out to be a mess.

Damn, I need some TR8 screenshots and a release date.:tea::hea::cen::jmp:

Serval Boy
26-06-07, 07:56
Well after reading The Great Chi's latest thread I'm certain that the third member of the Triumvirate is going to be Deadman Joe.

johny_v1.3
26-06-07, 11:32
Interesting.. :)

btw how could Tihocan and Qualopec die if they are immortal??

kimonap
26-06-07, 11:34
we will learn in tr8

Rydell
26-06-07, 12:04
Okay before things get too out of control :tea:I would like to say that I think I was the first person to state any Nephlim Connection :Dand a lot of the other theories that were already posted. I hope this doesn't sound rude:p I just would like to say sometime maybe if any of this does come to pass that I could say to myself "Hey I speculated on that berfore there was even anything official:o" But then again they're are a few things and oppinions I didn't even think about and it all adds to discussion anyways.

Look at these two threads and the dates and my posts.;)

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=100157&page=3

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=99804

:jmp:

Yes I used excessive smilies because I didn't want to sound rude angry or frusterated. Just a bit concerned but happy nonetheless because it doesn't matter anyways.

Jin Uzuki
26-06-07, 12:44
We are probably gonna differ on some things...:D:tea:

....but....

I am with you here....



As I said in my post I think it is plausible that the crystal thing in TRL might have been some Atlantis artifact. I didn't think about "someone" sending the monster. But it does make me think the "sent' part might have been more along the lines of steering the group to dig at that site to find the crystal vs. just setting the monster loose.

However... that begs the question... why this group? Lara didn't know what the crystal was. At that point it looked like Amanda was as green as bermuda grass. Also is there anything that states what they were looking for there anyway? Was it something in particular or just another found ruin?

It looked to me that the Unknown entity was accidently unleshed by Amanda rather than having it unleshed on her by outside forces especially since she learned to control it and the power of the crystal altogether (by becoming a new monster or the original monster at the end of TRL).

As far as outside forces (Natla) and the dig site are concerned I guess one could make a case that Lara was "tipped off" about something that she thought may help her on the path of rescuing her mother so they went to that site. And obviously it turned out to be a mess.

Damn, I need some TR8 screenshots and a release date.:tea::hea::cen::jmp:

You've a point. If anything, it would make better sense if the group was "lured" to the site.

Okay before things get too out of control :tea:I would like to say that I think I was the first person to state any Nephlim Connection :Dand a lot of the other theories that were already posted. I hope this doesn't sound rude:p I just would like to say sometime maybe if any of this does come to pass that I could say to myself "Hey I speculated on that berfore there was even anything official:o" But then again they're are a few things and oppinions I didn't even think about and it all adds to discussion anyways.

Look at these two threads and the dates and my posts.;)

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=100157&page=3

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=99804

:jmp:

Yes I used excessive smilies because I didn't want to sound rude angry or frusterated. Just a bit concerned but happy nonetheless because it doesn't matter anyways.

It really is interesting how we have theories about the smallest things like Natla's connection with Amanda to the more massive things like the connection of Nephilim to Atlantis. All to mind-boggling. :cln:

Really, if I were to have it my way, I'd make a SENSIBLE tie-in between Legend, AoD, and Anniversary to make for a good, intriguing TR8 storyline. :tmb:

Jin Uzuki
26-06-07, 13:02
Sara Croft posted a very interesting image in another thread. It's shown on the monitor in the tech room in Legend's Croft Manor.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o14/Peemja/DSC00082.jpg

Something to add to the theories we have thus far.

Notice the word "curse, untranslatable". Could it be that Lara remembered everything she saw in the Shadow Figures "dream" she had? I think it would make sense if Lara stored what she saw for safekeeping: the curse chanting of Q and T when they were sealing Natla, and the actual entombment of Natla herself.

The word "cycle" is also interesting to note. Could this perhaps be the turn of the Seventh Age with Natla's reformed triumvirate?

Also, to support the Nephilim/Atlantean connection, the text in the image mentions living with the mortals and walking with the mortals, and the word "half-breed". This part could very easily point to either races, or both, making them one and the same.

petujaymz
26-06-07, 14:39
I like the concept of Lara having to seek out Tihocan and Qualopec to defeat Natla upon her inevitable return. This is alot like the TRLR storyline I suppose - Lara had to summon Horus in an attempt to imprison Seth... again!


TR8 Level 1 - The Tomb of Qualopec

Lara - "Oh good, everything is just as I left it..."

Of course, Qualopec is nowhere to be found and the story continues.


CD seem intent on blending the TRA and TRL storylines together, so such a plot wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

:wve:

Robespierre
26-06-07, 15:26
Am I missing something?? Why would Natla's own piece of the Scion be in Egypt? Did Qualopec and Tihocan hide it there randomly? I can't remember right now how Lara knew it was hidden in Egypt. I think she may have had a vision but not a very clear one?! Anyway, my idea was that maybe Seth was the third person along with Lara and Natla (as she seems to have ties to Egypt)?We didn't kill him did we? And he was hardly imprisoned... if Lara managed to escape from there then why couldn't he? I never got that. Just a thought...

petujaymz
26-06-07, 15:29
Am I missing something?? Why would Natla's own piece of the Scion be in Egypt? Did Qualopec and Tihocan hide it there randomly?

I guess so, and thanks to the Scion, Egypt became one of the world's greatest ancient civilisations - hence the construction of The Sanctuary of the Scion.

:wve:

AndrewNi
26-06-07, 15:33
My guess on the Egypt thing would be that the Atlanteans (or what was left, or maybe even just T & Q) moved on to other parts of the world after the destruction. Egypt has pyramids, which links to Atlantis architecture. So my point is, they could have gone to Egypt first, built the sanctuary (the two pieces of the scion they had would have to be used to lock it up), and then gone separate ways to Greece and Peru.

Robespierre
26-06-07, 15:33
Good Point... :)

petujaymz
26-06-07, 16:13
My guess on the Egypt thing would be that the Atlanteans (or what was left, or maybe even just T & Q) moved on to other parts of the world after the destruction. Egypt has pyramids, which links to Atlantis architecture. So my point is, they could have gone to Egypt first, built the sanctuary (the two pieces of the scion they had would have to be used to lock it up), and then gone separate ways to Greece and Peru.

Why didn't one or the other stick around in Egypt if that's the case? I reckon they hid the third piece in Egypt, unwittingly creating the ancient Egyptian civilisation in the process.

:wve:

Joshorty
26-06-07, 16:58
Great points brought up:tmb: now I'm just gonna keep pondering about this...I mean Amanda could be the daughter of Natla who knows:D I mean even at the end of LEgend, you see crates with Natla printed on them....I know that was just an easter egg but now after playing Anniversary, could mean a different thing now...

Jin Uzuki
26-06-07, 23:03
I like the concept of Lara having to seek out Tihocan and Qualopec to defeat Natla upon her inevitable return. This is alot like the TRLR storyline I suppose - Lara had to summon Horus in an attempt to imprison Seth... again!


TR8 Level 1 - The Tomb of Qualopec

Lara - "Oh good, everything is just as I left it..."

Of course, Qualopec is nowhere to be found and the story continues.


CD seem intent on blending the TRA and TRL storylines together, so such a plot wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

:wve:

I see the parallelism. I'm all for it! Something's telling me all three Atlantean rulers will make it to Legend II. :cln:

Izzie404
26-06-07, 23:40
I just read the first post, and I was thinking:
When you said "Natla, Lara, and Richard Croft" I don't think that that would work, because Natla made it seem like she didn't think Richard strong enough..

Sara Croft
26-06-07, 23:45
Or *IS* Ekhardt dead? He was imprisoned for 500 years, so who knows if he is truly immortal?

Karel would be cool, especially if the Nephilim were really the Atlanteans...maybe Karel is Tihocan!!!
Yes he is dead. He was completely exhausted after Lara stabbed him with the two first shards and Karel were smarter then eckhardt. Quote-
Lara: But why, you worked for him?
Karel: Yes, but unknowenly he worked for me, we nephilim have only ever been trying to survive (or something like that).

Karel tried to do the same thing natla did. Get Lara on his team.
"I've helped you all along, both here and in Paris" While shapeshifting to several persons we have met, including Kurtis.
We also find out that it wasnt eckhardt who killed Von croy, Karel did...

Karel knew eckhardt would die. Also did he hid the last knife so noone would fine it... of course, Lara did ;)

Gianni Bartoli
28-11-07, 18:30
Natla's Trimvirate: Natla, Sophia Lee & Amanda
Lara's Triamvirate: Lara, Qualopec & Tihocan