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8accent8
20-07-07, 15:10
most obvious when you're watching a movie. if u constantly search for the faults, you will find them. therefore, think the movie is bad.
like today, i was playing tomb raider legend, which i have highly criticised for all its bad points in the past. but i decided to relax and take it all in, what CD really made. i actually liked it alot, and felt my money's worth finally. yes we all know "games arent what they used to be" but sometimes change is good. yea, so games need pretty graphics to boost its quality. "back then" they were different and that was a different era in the gaming industry. instead of being close-minded to anything new. u can appreciate them for what they were and what they are now. why, if u never gave tomb raider's new concept a chance u would've missed alot. so, what i'm really trying to say is that tomb raider legend isnt bad as i thought it was. the first level is relaxing, gorgeous graphics, serene music, and an adventure quality. also lara is easy to manuver and looks stunning. then it gets more actiony. then as we progress to peru we get to see the tomb of tiwina...u kno the name, and we even get to go to her past. when i played it, i put every criticism to the side and jus looked at it for its good qualities instead of nitpicking. yes, there are some faults, but u dont hav to over exaggerate them to the point where u dont want to play it.
i hope this long post has maybe made u realize something, not only for a game or a movie, but also other things u extremly criticise....


any thoughts?...

Greenkey2
20-07-07, 15:17
My thoughts are very similar, though if it's Legend you're particularly drawing attention to, then that is where this topic belongs :wve:

Sara Croft
20-07-07, 15:55
Even if I don't nit pick, I hate that product. It dosent represent what Tomb Raider is about. I cant like that game, no matter what I do.

Aurimas
20-07-07, 15:56
any thoughts?...

No.

Sir Croft
20-07-07, 16:31
I think the same way. You won't find much flaws if you don't look for them.
People look more for flaws than for the good points.

No.

Why am I not surprised?

domina
20-07-07, 17:07
Until coming to these forums, I never even considered Legend to be "flawed." It's not to say that it was perfect because that's an absolute that's difficult to achieve, but it perfectly entertained me and at the end of the day, that's all I look for from a video game. I enjoyed it and felt I got my money's worth, so I couldn't have cared less if it was "flawed" or not.

I'm not going to tell people how to respond to a game or a movie or a book or so on, and certainly tastes differ, but I do think that the excessive nit-picking can cause people to miss out on a pleasant experience.

mattlsu
20-07-07, 17:34
Until coming to these forums, I never even considered Legend to be "flawed." It's not to say that it was perfect because that's an absolute that's difficult to achieve, but it perfectly entertained me and at the end of the day, that's all I look for from a video game. I enjoyed it and felt I got my money's worth, so I couldn't have cared less if it was "flawed" or not.

I'm not going to tell people how to respond to a game or a movie or a book or so on, and certainly tastes differ, but I do think that the excessive nit-picking can cause people to miss out on a pleasant experience.

Agreed. Tomb Raider Legend is a good game, but Anniversary is better IMO. The first time playing through Legend, I actually enjoyed it allot. The only thing that I picked out though was Zip & Allister on the headset. They talk a bit too much.

Pink_Oracle
20-07-07, 17:39
Many people said that Anniversary was an improvement on Legend and that Crystal had “listened to us”.
That was the criticism they had acted on to make those improvements. Complaining isn’t pretty but it gets things changed.

CroftScionGuard
20-07-07, 17:48
Hey the most important of all is that the game is very good and I love it, no matter how much critisized it is. TR:A is also very good and also very critisized (including me with some bugs I mentioned)

Lior_K
20-07-07, 17:54
This "ostrich" attitude isn't particularly right...you can hide your head in the sand as long as you want but it won't solve the problem.

As customers we are not obligated to accept products as they are even if they are faulty. We pay our hard-earned money to enjoy the product and if it is faulty, then no matter how much we ignore it - it would remain faulty. And if we don't speak up the company would keep producing faulty products and eventually the only people who would keep buying it are the "ostrich" ones.

If your opinion is so easily influenced by other people then I strongly recommend avoiding these forums or any negative threads.

Izzie404
20-07-07, 18:35
That's a good point, and I think you are right. But when I play a game, I always try to look at it in a good way.

Corky_123
20-07-07, 19:19
This "ostrich" attitude isn't particularly right...you can hide your head in the sand as long as you want but it won't solve the problem.

Although ignoring problems may not be very constructive, neither is taking every possible opportunity to criticise something as some people seem to do.:(

Eddie Haskell
20-07-07, 19:33
All I could think about as I was playing it was that this was the last time that I would play a TR game, since the series that I really enjoyed for a decade was irrevocably altered and ruined in so many ways. I could see that there would be many that would like this style, controls and camera and therefore realized that the game that I cared for was gone forever.

So while I criticized at first, eventually I came to the conclusion that it would not be a worthwhile pursuit. I held out some hope (not much really) for Anniversary but after suffering through 5 minutes of the demo I deleted it from my pc and put an end to my suffering. But there are plenty of games out there for me so I don't worry about it. Everyone by all means enjoy the new glitz and gadget Spiderwoman, eh, I mean Lara! ;)

FomarThain
20-07-07, 20:11
Many people said that Anniversary was an improvement on Legend and that Crystal had “listened to us”.
That was the criticism they had acted on to make those improvements. Complaining isn’t pretty but it gets things changed.

I think its Legend II that will be the proof that they "listened". From my point of view I think TRA is as it is because they pretty much just made a remake, not so much because they "listened".

TRL II will be when we find out since that is when they will be able to flex their creative muscles freely again without having a past game to guide them.

Personally I love Legend and I have faith that they won't make a copy of TRA, I say that even as much I am in love with TRA. As much as I like both I think they are such extremes in game design to one another that I think the next one needs to be a hybrid of the two. Legend action and TRA tomb raiding in some what equal amounts.

Now on topic....:)

I went to see Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. Went in expecting it to be dreadful be wanted t some viewing fun. I got the fun enjoyed the ride because I mostly succeeded in pushing out the fluff. So I left pretty happy. As the days wore on and I thought more about I started to think damn, that was a pretty terrible movie.

Point is though, I went in low expections but was ready to put them aside to have some fun.

Same with Transformers and Harry Potter movies. I saw both yesterday (double feature ftw:D). I was pleased with the Harry Potter one as I have been with all of them. I could have picked apart Transformers though. But I didn't and just sat back. It had some of the best action I have seen. So I left having had some fun and without regret that I had spent my money on it.

I will say after a few days after FF Rise of the Silver Surfer the only thing worth paying for was to actually see the silver surfer.:) So I did kinda regret spending that money. But you get my point.

Last side note... I think the worse thing is to take your argument to the extreme nit-pick second hand knowledge and find faults before you even experience something. Yeah it can work friends tell and what not... but still... you run the risk of missing some really cool stuff along the way cause you never gave it a chance!

tranniversary119
21-07-07, 04:56
I think its Legend II that will be the proof that they "listened". From my point of view I think TRA is as it is because they pretty much just made a remake, not so much because they "listened".

TRL II will be when we find out since that is when they will be able to flex their creative muscles freely again without having a past game to guide them.

Personally I love Legend and I have faith that they won't make a copy of TRA, I say that even as much I am in love with TRA. As much as I like both I think they are such extremes in game design to one another that I think the next one needs to be a hybrid of the two. Legend action and TRA tomb raiding in some what equal amounts.

I AGREE!

Indiana Croft
21-07-07, 05:04
TRL is awesome! I love that game, as I have said over and over. I think the critics are just too picky. I mean, AoD didn't even HAVE tombs! How can Legend be worse than that?

kryptonite23
21-07-07, 05:15
That's a good point, and I think you are right. But when I play a game, I always try to look at it in a good way.

It is an element to play a good,nice game.:)

Ward Dragon
21-07-07, 08:16
I don't consider it to be nit-picking when I am annoyed that, for example, every time I try to go somewhere I run into an invisible wall. That's a fundamental gameplay issue, not something minor. I don't think it's nit-picking if I don't like that I am constantly bombarded by headset chatter, on-screen prompts, and other sorts of unwanted hints. It's not nit-picking to be annoyed that everywhere I go in the game, I run into hundreds of generic mercenaries. I don't like fighting too much in games, so it's really not fun for me to go from cutscene to random battle to random battle to yet another cutscene without any exploration in between. I also really hated the motorcycle levels because they were so pointless (I didn't like the chariot races in Prince of Persia T2T either, and I went into that game expecting to love the chariot races from the trailer...) I don't enjoy Legend because everything I liked to do in previous TR games was minimized or cut out entirely in favor of things I don't like to do. I can't help it if I keep trying to grab ledges that look like they should be grabbable, or if I keep trying to jump up onto ledges that are only a foot or two above Lara's head. That's a fundamental part of playing games for me, and every time I try to actually play Legend, the game reminds me that it is extremely limited and only wants me to go down a single narrow path. That is why I only played the game once. I've tried the demo a few times since playing the game, but the feeling won't go away so I haven't yet bothered with trying to play the full game again.

TRL is awesome! I love that game, as I have said over and over. I think the critics are just too picky. I mean, AoD didn't even HAVE tombs! How can Legend be worse than that?

Yes it did. AOD had several tombs or classic-themed areas. These are my favorite:

-St. Aicard's Graveyard
-The Archaeological Dig
-Tomb of Ancients
-The Hall of Seasons
-The Vault of Trophies
-Bio-Research Facility
-Aquatic Research Area

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tng/walkthrough/index.html

Pretty much everything after level 5 is classic TR goodness :) I don't go by number of levels because that doesn't take into account level size. Rather, I go by how long the game takes me to play it through. AOD takes me much longer to play through than Legend, even if I don't count those first five levels of AOD. I also enjoy everything past level 5 much more than I enjoyed anything in Legend. Legend had so much potential but failed to achieve it.

maximum_123
21-07-07, 09:07
Pretty much everything after level 5 is classic TR goodness :) I don't go by number of levels because that doesn't take into account level size. Rather, I go by how long the game takes me to play it through. AOD takes me much longer to play through than Legend, even if I don't count those first five levels of AOD. I also enjoy everything past level 5 much more than I enjoyed anything in Legend. Legend had so much potential but failed to achieve it.

Agreed :tmb:

Mona Sax
21-07-07, 09:21
I think its Legend II that will be the proof that they "listened". From my point of view I think TRA is as it is because they pretty much just made a remake, not so much because they "listened".
I think it's a case of part-part. The level design and atmosphere (silence!) were probably greatly influenced by TR1, but there's also a lot of stuff that I don't think would've been in TRA if we hadn't said anything. The manual grab or partly optional hints, for example, or harder puzzles (many of them original).

Emmo
21-07-07, 10:03
Legend really was the biggest failure in the TR series. Why??? Because it has ruined everything about Tomb Raider. Developers didn't care basic things about Tomb Raider. But also they said "We're going back to the tombs". But they didn't it exactly.

Legend also had nice & great features. But if a TR game doesn't look like a TR Game, you really don't care these niceties. When Legend first came out, I really enjoyed it. The only flaw was game's length for me. But after that I understood this wasn't the only problem...

I've played all classic Tomb Raiders and AOD. Even AOD is more Tomb Raider than Legend. TRL is a really different game. Neither it is close to Classics nor AOD.

Whether you're optimistic or pessimistic while playing Legend, It won't change anything about its faults...:)

tr.fan
21-07-07, 15:29
"Great Work Crystal Dynamics"

FomarThain
21-07-07, 17:37
Legend really was the biggest failure in the TR series. Why??? Because it has ruined everything about Tomb Raider.

I think ruined is a bit strong. I would say more like they forgot (or ignored depending on your stance) what makes a TR game a TR game. I say that loving Legend. But its valid from my point of view to say TRL wasn't a true TR game based on the game play.

But also they said "We're going back to the tombs".


I didn't know they said but yeah that was a bad comment to make and then release Legend.:D

I've played all classic Tomb Raiders and AOD. Even AOD is more Tomb Raider than Legend. TRL is a really different game. Neither it is close to Classsics nor AOD.

Yeah TRL is kinda misplaced. On one hand it probably did real well because it was a Lara Croft game. But it probably also sold well becasue it was a fun action game. I wonder if it would have done well being a fun action game without Lara Croft as the star. Hard to say as I think it was a fun game.

I would love to see actual sales numbers for Legend and TRA. To see which has done better within the time frame of TRA's release.

Mind you I mean hard numbers not press releases or game billboard charts.:D

8accent8
21-07-07, 21:06
This "ostrich" attitude isn't particularly right...you can hide your head in the sand as long as you want but it won't solve the problem.

As customers we are not obligated to accept products as they are even if they are faulty. We pay our hard-earned money to enjoy the product and if it is faulty, then no matter how much we ignore it - it would remain faulty. And if we don't speak up the company would keep producing faulty products and eventually the only people who would keep buying it are the "ostrich" ones.

If your opinion is so easily influenced by other people then I strongly recommend avoiding these forums or any negative threads.

i'm not saying to completly ignore everything bad and act like its perfect, i'm saying to not constantly search for whats bad. yes ofcourse u notice the bad things, but usually people let that ruin the entire game for them. i'm not saying legend was perfect, i can name numerous faults. some people constantly complain, which is also like being an ostrich since ur completly ignoring the good.
so yes, it is possible to see the faults and still enjoy the game. and while u enjoy it, u can speak ur opinion on the problems to the company and others so they can be solved. doesnt that sound better than forever complaining about it?

my opinion was probably easily influenced before, especially when u read at least 50 problems about it, then u start noticing them. but ofcourse, that was the past and now i have a solid one. but i wont block out everything.