PDA

View Full Version : What is Hell, and why?


Zac Medley
06-09-07, 11:11
I see the word Hell come up from time to time on the forum and sometimes interesting discussion about what it is. Some people have the attitude that if God is a loving God, then why would he put people in Hell? I think that this is a very valid question.

Without attempting to preach or proslytise I'd like to explain my understanding of Hell, and why it exists. And I'll make this as short as possible.

================================================== ========
Y'all believe whatever you want, this is how I see it.
================================================== ========

God is a Holy God. That is to say that he is absolutely pure and without any kind of blemish or defilement in his character. He is described as like a refining fire. He is so pure and holy that nothing that has even a trace of corruption can exist in his presence. He is a fire so hot that the elements themselves would disassociate into their sub-atomic particles in his presence. That means us too. We are all defiled and impure, and so we are bound to spend eternity in outer darkness, far from the presence of God. This is also called the lake of fire.

However God does not want this at all. It is the physical reality, but it was never his desire. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 peter 3:9). That's why God sent his son Jesus. I know this sounds like I'm preaching but that's not the point. Jesus lived a life of sinless perfection, so when he offered himself in payment for our sin it was acceptable in the sight of God. Now anyone who believes in Jesus has their sins washed away, they are made pure and holy, and they can then appear in the presence of a Holy God. And live with him in heaven for eternity.

It has been described like a heavenly bank account. We have a debt, and we can't pay it. The only options we have are go to Hell, or ask someone else to pay our debt. Jesus has enough heavenly money to pay for all the sin of the entire world. Our debt is charged to him, and we get to go free.

So even though it may seem that by having a Hell God is being mean, really Hell is a choice that we make. The Bible tells us that Hell was made for the Devil and his angels (the Devil lead the original rebellion in heaven, and was responsible for the serpant that seduced Adam and Eve into breaking God's commandment). Hell was not intended as a place for people, but where do people go who reject God? There is nowhere else.

Hell also is temporary. Unrepentant sinners (I know that sounds judgemental, but I am a sinner too - a repentant one) go to Hell when they die, but later they will be brought before the great white throne and judged. When their guilt is exposed they are then cast into the lake of fire for eternity. This also has an earthly counterpart. If you are arrested you would be put in jail until your case could be reviewed by a judge or magistrate. When you appear before the court they decide on your guilt or innocence and then pass judgement - which could be prison.

So Hell is not God being mean, but it is a tragic consequence of the original, and continuing, rebellion against God.

That probably sounds a lot like preaching, but I thought I'd try to explain what I understand Hell to be. I hope that it makes sense - it makes sense to me.

Melonie Tomb Raider
06-09-07, 11:43
:tmb:

Dakaruch
06-09-07, 11:44
well zac i don't believe in god, in heaven, hell or the devil... i simply believe in facts and therefore since i never saw god or any real proof that he exists i don't believe it...
now if i believed in it, i think that my version of hell would be pretty much the same as yours...


for me there's no life after death and it is what you do on your life that makes you a good person or a bad person, and if you are a bad person too bad, you will never be judged(unless if it is a real bad thing like killing someone or stealing or whatever) but perhaps will have remorses...
i help people in every way i can, because i feel good about it, not because i'm afraid to go to hell!
and that would be how many of you should feel, you should not help others because of the fear, but because it makes you feel good with yourself...


my objective is not to banish church or any religion...
everyone believes in what they want
:wve:

Delakandak
06-09-07, 13:07
Excellent..

Mona Sax
06-09-07, 13:10
I think hell is a part of ourselves. We all have a dark side, and sometimes we do horrible things to each other. I see it as a metaphor, not a physical place.

Delakandak
06-09-07, 13:13
I think hell is a part of ourselves. We all have a dark side, and sometimes we do horrible things to each other. I see it as a metaphor, not a physical place.

What in the world are you talking about? Hell is real...
and it all comes real at the end of the world..
at the end of the seven years of torture, those who have satan's seal, 666, will be thrown into hell... FOR ETERNITY! :mad::(

Dakaruch
06-09-07, 13:15
What in the world are you talking about? Hell is real...
and it all comes real at the end of the world..
at the end of the seven years of torture, those who have satan's seal, 666, will be thrown into hell... FOR ETERNITY! :mad::(

well it may be real for you, for me it isn't, and you should respect other opinions! :wve:

Mona Sax
06-09-07, 13:16
@ Delakandak: Look, kiddo, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god or the devil. I don't preach to you, so please do me the same favor.

Delakandak
06-09-07, 13:18
Right....

Dakaruch
06-09-07, 13:21
Delakandak you should really start to respect other people oppinions... some of us are atheists and don't believe in such things...
if you believe that that's ok with me! now respect my oppinion and mona oppinion!

Bowie
06-09-07, 13:22
Who created the Devil? Why did God create temptation if he knew in all his wisdom that some people would end up choosing the "wrong" thing?

Delakandak
06-09-07, 13:24
Delakandak you should really start to respect other people oppinions... some of us are atheists and don't believe in such things...
if you believe that that's ok with me! now respect my oppinion and mona oppinion!

OK...thats your opinion...

Bowie
06-09-07, 13:34
OK...thats your opinion...
It is not an opinion that people should respect other people's opinions -- it is a fact. You may not realise this, but wars begin with people like you, who don't believe all human life and its intricacies and colourful spectrum of opinions should be thoroughly respected.

Jesus had the utmost respect for the way in which the society of his time was so disrespectful to heretical opinion (yes, Jesus was a heretic), that it would lead to his ultimate destruction. He didn't agree with it, yet he respected it.

Love your neighbour as yourself, hypocrite.

Archetype
06-09-07, 13:41
Who created the Devil? Why did God create temptation if he knew in all his wisdom that some people would end up choosing the "wrong" thing?

Lucifer was an angel.. was banished from heaven and fell to earth.

God gave us free will.. its just people controlling the evil/good in them.

Delakandak
06-09-07, 13:50
It is not an opinion that people should respect other people's opinions -- it is a fact. You may not realise this, but wars begin with people like you, who don't believe all human life and its intricacies and colourful spectrum of opinions should be thoroughly respected.

Jesus had the utmost respect for the way in which the society of his time was so disrespectful to heretical opinion (yes, Jesus was a heretic), that it would lead to his ultimate destruction. He didn't agree with it, yet he respected it.

Love your neighbour as yourself, hypocrite.

WHAT! HYPOCRITE! are you referring to me? you better not be..
maybe you are looking into the mirror and talking..:mad::hea:

Bowie
06-09-07, 14:11
Lucifer was an angel.. was banished from heaven and fell to earth.

God gave us free will.. its just people controlling the evil/good in them.
Presumably Lucifer was banished from heaven because he thought evil thoughts or something? What evil thoughts were they? And surely God in his infinite wisdom would understand "probability" -- that at least ONE of his angels would exploit free will and turn evil, as you say.

And why even give them a choice? Why not just make all the angels good?


WHAT! HYPOCRITE! are you referring to me? you better not be..
maybe you are looking into the mirror and talking..:mad::hea:
Clearly you are too young and way too proud to engage in civil discussion. If you think you're perfect because you believe in the Bible, then actually consider reading it! Read the Biblical story of Sodom. God destroyed a whole city because of its excessively proud inhabitants.

Cochrane
06-09-07, 14:12
Eternal salvation alone isn't enough motivation to turn all people to good, law-abiding citizens who stone everyone who questions anything the religious authorities and textbooks say. Many people might feel that if the choice is to either believe (with all the work that comes with it) and maybe go to heaven, or not to believe and maybe just die and be gone, the latter doesn't seem too bad.

This problem can easily be solved with the introduction of Hell™! It adds a layer of punishment to any religion using it, consequently doubling the reasons to be faithfull. In short: People who aren't convinced by "You won't go to heaven" might be convinced by "You will go to hell", and for that reason, people invented the concept of hell. It's as simple as that.

Delakandak: This is only page two here (assuming standard forum settings). It is customary to wait a little longer before turning this into such a heated discussion. We're still in the part where we deal with actual arguments.

Sara Croft
06-09-07, 14:12
WHAT! HYPOCRITE! are you referring to me? you better not be..
maybe you are looking into the mirror and talking..:mad::hea:You dont make any sense? :confused:
Anyway, I do believe in hell, but as Mona said: Its a part of us.

just croft
06-09-07, 14:15
I hate religious threads! they always start a war between forum members!

Geck-o-Lizard
06-09-07, 14:19
WHAT! HYPOCRITE! are you referring to me? you better not be..
maybe you are looking into the mirror and talking..:mad::hea:
Clearly you are too young and way too proud to engage in civil discussion.

Oh be quiet, you two. Delakandak, you WILL show respect for other people's opinions while you post here. This includes not telling people they're wrong about their beliefs. And Bowie, calling someone names whilst berating them about their lack of respect isn't very tactful. :rolleyes:

On the original topic, I don't believe in God, ultimate judgement, or any kind of afterlife. The only Hell I believe in is what you create for yourself while alive. Regret - true regret - is Hell, in my opinion. I have very little respect for the judgement that other people pass on me: I know myself better than they do, and if I behave without proper consideration or in a way that contradicts my true nature (even unintentionally), I will feel that regret. That deep, furious desire to turn back time and say or do things differently far outweighs any physical pain I've ever felt, or could imagine feeling. The possibility that things could have turned out better, and the knowledge that what happened can't be undone, is absolutely maddening. And every wrong choice puts you there.

Bowie
06-09-07, 14:27
And Bowie, calling someone names whilst berating them about their lack of respect isn't very tactful. :rolleyes:
What names?

Cochrane
06-09-07, 14:33
What names?

I think the incident being referred to is you calling Delakandak a hypocrite.

Delakandak
06-09-07, 14:35
Ok.. back to topic...

NemesisxAngelus
06-09-07, 15:04
Hell is the opposite of Heaven. I do believe there's more after death, but not in the way of heaven or hell. It's a nice thought for people who believe in God or do believe and are afraid of dying, that's how I see it.

CerebralAssassin
06-09-07, 15:08
hell ain't a place...but a state of mind...;)

agree?:p

Zac Medley
06-09-07, 15:10
Hell is a place AND a state of mind.

Been to the latter, not going to the former.

interstellardave
06-09-07, 15:25
Reality is a construct of consciousness. We collectively create our shared reality and enact our various lives within it. Heaven is to be in a state where this is understood and you can forge your own path through this reality... when you can be detached enough from it to learn from your experiences and grow towards greater Enlightenment... towards that "Heavenly state".

Hell is to be trapped within this reality and to not see it for what it is, to not acknowledge the level of control you really have, and to not grow from your experiences. That is suffering, and hopelessness. That is Hell... but even that is transitory. All will return to a state of true Enlightenment because that's the path to be followed--the Endgame. It just takes time; many lifetimes to create experiences and to "figure it out". It's not at all unlike Video Games...

remote91
06-09-07, 16:18
Very thought provoking, I love it :p Some very good opinions in here.

CerebralAssassin
06-09-07, 16:21
Reality is a construct of consciousness.

hmm..how can that be Dave?:p

can you possibly mean that the subconscious can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality:confused:

oh btw...how's it goin?:p

interstellardave
06-09-07, 16:42
hmm..how can that be Dave?:p

can you possibly mean that the subconscious can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality:confused:

oh btw...how's it goin?:p

Well, by Consciousness creating reality I use Consciousness with a BIG C, if you know what I mean (our True Nature). Here on Earth... in this "reality" we cling to, the Conscious Mind is easily fooled much of the time, we get confused, we can get sidetracked, etc. The Subconsious Mind is the link to our True Nature... the Subconscious Mind knows it all, you dig? :)

It's been going okay, how have you been? :ton:

CerebralAssassin
06-09-07, 16:50
Well, by Consciousness creating reality I use Consciousness with a BIG C, if you know what I mean (our True Nature). Here on Earth... in this "reality" we cling to, the Conscious Mind is easily fooled much of the time, we get confused, we can get sidetracked, etc. The Subconsious Mind is the link to our True Nature... the Subconscious Mind knows it all, you dig? :)

aaa...gotcha!:p

:ton:

hey,you rubbing it in huh?:mad::p (that I can't watch wrestling :p)

Beanz
06-09-07, 16:52
Well Said Zac! :tmb:

My hell Is the sports hall in my school. (joke)

I pretty much believe that hell is the place you go when you have commited crimes (obviously) I believe it's like a vast underground cavern with lots of fire and demons....

lol, how stereotypical of me.....:pi:

myrmaad
06-09-07, 16:55
hmm..how can that be Dave?:p

can you possibly mean that the subconscious can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality:confused:

oh btw...how's it goin?:p

Actually something like that. Hmmm Do I feel like explaining what I know and how I know it??? um.. No.

ThomasCroft
06-09-07, 16:56
If we lived a sinless life but were out of faith/not baptised, we'd still be sent to hell, I believe, according to the Bible - but don't hold me to that. So the most kind, generous, loving athiest in the world could be catching a train to hell along with a previously active paedophile. So what I can't seem to understand is, no matter how much you explain why hell's there etc. and how we make our own choices, if God really was in existence and really was a merciful, forgiving being as people say He is, He would never send that person to hell. Or would he? And why? Would they really deserve it?

I'm an agnostic, and am really intrigued by this.

CerebralAssassin
06-09-07, 16:58
Actually something like that. Hmmm Do I feel like explaining what I know and how I know it??? um.. No.

umm excuse me...was I talking to YOU?:p

I was quoting Dave:ohn:

interstellardave
06-09-07, 17:01
If we lived a sinless life but were out of faith/not baptised, we'd still be sent to hell, I believe, according to the Bible - but don't hold me to that. So the most kind, generous, loving athiest in the world could be catching a train to hell along with a previously active paedophile. So what I can't seem to understand is, no matter how much you explain why hell's there etc. and how we make our own choices, if God really was in existence and really was a merciful, forgiving being as people say He is, He would never send that person to hell. Or would he? And why? Would they really deserve it?

I'm an agnostic, and am really intrigued by this.

That argument is one I've never heard a good answer to... those who wish to control others have no logical answer for it, how a pedophile or murderer can be "saved" and a non-religious "good person" will rot in hell. Rubbish!

Even the bible contains many passages in it that people ignore, like the one that states that (to paraphrase): "all sheep will be brought back to the fold... God will not allow even one to be lost". Now I know this is in there, but I can't remember chapter and verse--perhaps I'll try and find it later. Anyway, that passage right there invalidates some kind of "eternal Hell"... it states that everyone will come back to God eventually. Such a hopeful message doesn't do the fear mongerers any good, however.

myrmaad
06-09-07, 17:05
CA: No problem. I'll make sure not to speak to you again.

Admles
06-09-07, 22:32
Hell is a place where you can't eat meat, Evanescence plays 24 hours a day, you have no car to get anywhere and must walk everywhere, people smoke cigarettes all day and you can't shower........ thats what Hell would be :D

Anajrob
06-09-07, 23:16
well zac i don't believe in god, in heaven, hell or the devil... i simply believe in facts and therefore since i never saw god or any real proof that he exists i don't believe it...
now if i believed in it, i think that my version of hell would be pretty much the same as yours...


for me there's no life after death and it is what you do on your life that makes you a good person or a bad person, and if you are a bad person too bad, you will never be judged(unless if it is a real bad thing like killing someone or stealing or whatever) but perhaps will have remorses...
i help people in every way i can, because i feel good about it, not because i'm afraid to go to hell!
and that would be how many of you should feel, you should not help others because of the fear, but because it makes you feel good with yourself...


my objective is not to banish church or any religion...
everyone believes in what they want
:wve:

My thoughts, exactly. :tmb:

tranniversary119
07-09-07, 03:09
I just dont get religion. I mean they say there just "there" but how can someone just be there. It's so confusing! I mean i believe in god im a catholic and i want to go to heaven.

Thorir
07-09-07, 03:13
Hell and heaven is equal.

troy tr
07-09-07, 03:49
^I don't understand what is equal?

Zac Medley
07-09-07, 04:29
umm excuse me...was I talking to YOU?:p

I was quoting Dave:ohn:


By posting in this forum you are effectively talking to the entire world-wide internet. If you are going to get picky about who responds to your posts, then don't post.

Actually something like that. Hmmm Do I feel like explaining what I know and how I know it??? um.. No.

Yeah, it takes a lot of effort doesn't it.

It is tempting for me to try to answer some of the questions that have come up like who is the Devil and would a good non-Christian go to Hell, but I will try not too. I tend to get long winded and preachy, plus I don't know everything anyway.

I thought I did pretty well to present this as the understanding that I have come to without being dogmatic about it.

If you have serious questions you could PM me and I'll be honest about if I have a good answer or not.

To quote a messed up dude on the verge of a mid-life crisis, "Search your feelings, you know it to be true." - Darth Vader

Gregori
07-09-07, 15:22
Life is Hell, You do what you can just make it a pleasant trip.

Legends
07-09-07, 15:26
Hell is an imaginary place of all evilness.

peffect
07-09-07, 15:57
If we lived a sinless life but were out of faith/not baptised, we'd still be sent to hell, I believe, according to the Bible - but don't hold me to that. So the most kind, generous, loving athiest in the world could be catching a train to hell along with a previously active paedophile. So what I can't seem to understand is, no matter how much you explain why hell's there etc. and how we make our own choices, if God really was in existence and really was a merciful, forgiving being as people say He is, He would never send that person to hell. Or would he? And why? Would they really deserve it?

I'm an agnostic, and am really intrigued by this.

I believe, no heart is only good and no heart is only evil. And noone can change that.

tranniversary119
08-09-07, 20:15
Great point Thomas Croft!

talion
08-09-07, 21:37
I am agnostic, probably leaning towards theism. I believe the stereotypical hell does not exist, and probably not the stereotypical heaven. My belief is that 'heaven' is complete peace after death, and that 'hell' is restlessness in a way, in which your spirit cannot reach peace because of the crimes on your conscience. Therefore, it is your own self that judges you. If you think you can justify your wrongs in life, you will die in peace. IMHO, confessing and repenting for your sins helps justify them in your own mind. That's my view :)

Whether God exists, I cannot say. It's a kind of chicken and egg thing for me, it's like if the big bang happened (which i believe it did) why did it happen? If it was God, how did God come into existence? It's so strange and fascinating how something so fundamental as our own existence cannot be explained :)

Tihocan9
08-09-07, 21:54
Iam sort of half and half with you post, I belive in God heaven hell jesus etc but I dont beleive you cant go to heaven for not beliving in God if you are a good loving person i belive you can go to heaven even if you dont belive in God. I think you go to hell if you were not truly sorry for the sins you commited during life.