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Soma Holiday
20-09-07, 07:34
Whats the difference between Orcs and Goblins? I've been playing LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) and I'm wondering what the difference is. Even in the movies they use different terms, but they looks similar...

didn't one of them used to be elves? then what exactly are the others?

:o

EscondeR
20-09-07, 07:37
Orcs are deformed elves...

Andromeda66
20-09-07, 07:37
didn't one of them used to be elves? then what exactly are the others?

:o

Orcs were a mockery of the elves.

The goblins more cloely resemble gnomes I guess...and orcs more closely resemble humans in stature.

Asked to visualize a goblin and an Orc, I'd visualize the goblin to be more like a deformed dwarf and an orc to be more like a deforemed man/elf.

Soma Holiday
20-09-07, 07:42
Thanx! I was leaning toward that but I wasn't sure. Just curious haha. I know I've seen old movies where goblins were always greenish colored...dno why, but they were.

thanx again! :D

Necromanser
20-09-07, 07:43
Heres some differences
orcs are more
-stronger
-durable
-ugly:vlol:
-they use swords more
goblins are
-small
-agile
-sneaky
-they use bows and arrows more

Theres also a new breed of orc that is called Uruk-Hai
They are-
-more stronger than average orcs
-taller than other orcs orcs height is 5" uruk-hai height is 6"4 to 6"9
-The are harder to kill

also there are moria orcs that atacked the fellowship in the mines

PS-I got all of this information from the LOTR movie guide

Soma Holiday
20-09-07, 07:45
Theres also a new breed of orc that is called Uruk-Hai
They are-
-more stronger than average orcs
-taller than other orcs orcs height is 5" uruk-hai height is 6"4 to 6"9
-The are harder to kill

also there are moria orcs that atacked the fellowship in the mines

So the Uruk-Hai were the ones with the sharp teeth that they made, kinda like the leaders?

And in Moria (the movie at least) one of the characters said something about goblins, thats why I was confused, cause they looked like Orcs.

Maybe I should read the books haha.

Zac Medley
20-09-07, 07:50
Goblin is a term that J.R.R. Tolkein kind of grew out of. The Hobbit was originally a childrens story so it had goblins in it. As the story became deeper and vastly more profound in its scope, the monsters became much more deadly and serious. So, at least in part, it reflected a personal development of the author.

Historically the orcs were bred by Melchor "in envy and mockery of the elves," and these were probably like what was originally called goblins. Later Saruman bred his own version, the Uruk Hai, and there were also Black Uruks of Mordor, that were aparently interbred with mountain men or the southrons respectively. This is what gave the orcs a tolerance of sunlight and open spaces, which the normal goblins did not have.

Goblins and orcs are different races, but most likely from the same original stock.

And you're right: that is a nerdy question. Bordering on Geeky.

Dakaruch
20-09-07, 09:04
And in Moria (the movie at least) one of the characters said something about goblins, thats why I was confused, cause they looked like Orcs.



those goblins were a cross between goblins and orcs, i guess! that made them faster, more agile and resistant to light...

Earthcane
20-09-07, 12:23
those goblins were a cross between goblins and orcs, i guess! that made them faster, more agile and resistant to light...
Hey, Soma Holiday.
Generally, there is a lot of confusion surrounding the creation
of the orc-kin:

A name almost synonymous with Orcs. There is some debate about how closely the the two terms are related to one another, and indeed it could be argued that they both effectively relate to the same thing.
The following quote from the foreword to The Hobbit sheds some light on this: "[The word 'Orc'] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds.)' The fact that the larger kinds are given their own special word might suggest that goblins tend to be smaller Orcs, but the evidence on this point is inconclusive.

The word 'goblin' is also used occasionally and indiscriminately in The Lord of the Rings; it never occurs in the The Silmarillion.





The Orcs/Goblins were created in the First Age of the Stars,
When one of the greatest of the Valar, Melkor, Lord of Darkness, commited
a heinous and most blasphemus act. He captured many of the newly
awoken elvish race, took them to his dungeons and mutilated them beyond
recognition. They became deranged husks of their formers selves, and from these,
Melkor bred the First Orcish race.

The Goblin hordes were used in the armies of Morgoth and then Sauron who succeeded him.
Tolkien was very sketchy in his accounts of different orc and uruk types present at certain events and battles. Its just that he was a bit careless when it came to detailing the minions of evil in his epic tale, compared to the Noldor or the Gondorians.



To solve this confusion, when Peter Jackson came on the scene, he wanted 3 completly distinct types of orc in his movie:

1: Moria Goblins.
2: Uruk Hai
3: Orc Warriors



1: The Moria Goblins

Shortly before his Downfall at the end of the Second Age, Sauron planted orcs in
underground strongholds as far North as Gundabad and the Misty Mountains.
Because of the environment they were placed in, these orcs became adapted
over the years. Their eyes widened like a cats, to see in the dark.
They fear the light. They became
proficient in scavanging and scaling walls with ease. Their skin adopted a greenish
hue, and they became troglodyte in nature. The wore spined armor and wielded
sharp scimitars.
It was these orcs who ambushed Durin's Folk in the Dwarrowdelf.
Then the dwarves " delved too greedily and too deep."
They awoke Shadow and Flame, the dreaded Balrog of Morgoth, and the so-called
Moria Goblins rallied to his fiery whip-lash. Moria soon fell to the
Goblins. Balin, one of Thorin Oakenshields Company, set off on an
expedition to retake the Halls of his ancestors, but to no avail:
" Drums in the deep... We cannot get out... They are coming...."


http://i11.************/6fil3yd.jpg

http://i18.************/4tqedfs.jpg






2: The Uruk Hai

Some may say that it was Saruman who first bred the race of " Super-Soldier"
at Isengard. But it was Sauron who first bred the Uruk Hai during the second age.
Saruman bred the Uruk Hai in secret for Sauron, and used them to ravage the Lands of Rohan. This eventually led to the Battle for Helms Deep, with 10,000 Uruk soldiers
present.
Uruks are the result of a vile mix of orc, man and elf.They are hardy and use brute force. They do not fear the Sunlight and can march for days without food. They are tall in stature and very muscular.
After their defeat at Helms Deep, more Uruks appeared at the fortress of Cirith Ungol,
Led by Shagrat. It was his troops that tried to prevent Gorbag from stealing Frodos
mail-shirt.

Heres a pic of the mighty Lurtz, Uruk General:


http://i17.************/4qp992v.jpg

http://i19.************/5z2mv5t.jpg

http://i16.************/6eutxex.jpg












3: Orc Warriors

These are regular orcs that can be found raiding and pillaging all over MiddleEarth.
They swell the armies of Mordor. Orcish strongholds can be found at Minas Morgul,
Dol-Guldur and Barad-Dur. There were at least 200,000 orcs present at the Pellennor Field, and 600,000 when the Black Gate Opened.
Regular orcs are a cross between Goblins and Uruks- they fear the light,
but are savage fighters. For what they lack in skill and dexterity they make up for
in numbers. They wear crude armor harvested from the field of battle.
Orcs share an affinity with Wargs, which serve as their steeds in battle.

http://i19.************/4lq0234.jpg

http://i8.************/52zx5au.jpg









Thanx for reading. Hope this enlightens you, Soma!
I'm a huge LOTR fan. Heres a link to a very good site, the Encyclopedia
of Arda. Its great for all-things Lotr!

http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/

nicola1986
20-09-07, 12:29
Thanks for posting that question, I was confused by them too but didn't have the courage to ask lol :o

Cool info too guys! :D

Soma Holiday
20-09-07, 12:36
Thanx SO much Earthcane! That really reall helps! :D

lol nicola1986, you should never be scared to ask our fine forum folk a question, as you can see, they probably have an answer! ;)

nicola1986
20-09-07, 12:39
Yeah they usually do! :)

Heck I'm a nerd and proud! :D

Earthcane
20-09-07, 12:42
Thanx SO much Earthcane! That really reall helps! :D

lol nicola1986, you should never be scared to ask our fine forum folk a question, as you can see, they probably have an answer! ;)
Glad to help ;)

Lotr is my speciality!
BTW, do you have the LOTR Extended Edition boxset?
It has some really good documentaries and commentaries for Lotr stuff.

Dakaruch
20-09-07, 12:54
good explanation earthcane! :tmb:
are you registered in any kind of LOTR forum?

Earthcane
20-09-07, 19:21
Hey, Dak.
Nope, not on any LOTR forums. I just really like everything related to the books and movies ;)

danitiwa
20-09-07, 19:23
I don't know actually, because they're different in every story/fantasy, like in Harry Potter they present Goblins as little ugly Elves. (No offence to Goblins of course. :p) And I think Orcs are ugly creatures born from mud.

Earthcane
20-09-07, 19:37
I don't know actually, because they're different in every story/fantasy, like in Harry Potter they present Goblins as little ugly Elves. (No offence to Goblins of course. :p) And I think Orcs are ugly creatures born from mud.
Hey Dani. In the Fellowship movie, we see Saruman's breeding pits deep beneath
Isengard. You're right, the uruks are "born" from clay, after a vile breeding process which PJ never really explains.

You know the way that each piece of fantasy fiction portrays a character ina different way? Like Elves and Goblins are different in Lotr to those in HP?
It would be really cool if someone compiled a Bestiary of all the Fantastical creatures
and how they differ from story to story. ;)


Tolkien was very careless when it came to detailing his creatures.
Remember in The Hobbit when Bilbo sees the Stone Giants on the side of
the mountain? Since they never reappeared in any of his other tales,
we cant be sure if theyre real or not.

Soma Holiday
20-09-07, 22:41
Glad to help ;)

Lotr is my speciality!
BTW, do you have the LOTR Extended Edition boxset?
It has some really good documentaries and commentaries for Lotr stuff.

I don't, just been watching all the normal ones over the past 5 days lol.

Well I know someone who could help write some of it! :D

Do you know if Tolkien invented the Orc? I dnt read alot of fantasy, and while I know goblins had been around a while, Orc was a new one I heard of after LOTR.

You all should get LOTRO acounts! I'm addicted to it! :jmp:

Catlantean
20-09-07, 22:49
Tolkien was the first to describe the classic Orcs of fantasy, but the word is older than that and can be traced to the Roman deity Orcus (ruler of the underworld).

Also, I read it somewhere that Tolkien himself did not differentiate between orcs and goblins - they were the two names for the same race. In the books, they're used interchangeably.

Earthcane
20-09-07, 23:18
Tolkien was the first to describe the classic Orcs of fantasy, but the word is older than that and can be traced to the Roman deity Orcus (ruler of the underworld).

Also, I read it somewhere that Tolkien himself did not differentiate between orcs and goblins - they were the two names for the same race. In the books, they're used interchangeably.
"Orcus"?
Really interesting, didnt know that.

It was PJ who wanted to differentiate the different orc-breeds, probably
so the audience wouldnt get confused ;)


Do you know if Tolkien invented the Orc? I dnt read alot of fantasy, and while I know goblins had been around a while, Orc was a new one I heard of after LOTR.

I dont read much Fantasy either, apart from His Dark Materials. I tried to get
into Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, but didnt get time to finish it
cause of exams, lol :)


You all should get LOTRO acounts! I'm addicted to it!

Whats LOTRO? is that LOTR Online? the game?

Tanx anyway.