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Molson
11-12-07, 07:09
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/images/tombraider2_pc_screenshots_01/smallscreen033.jpg

I have a question I've been pondering on for quite some time now. While playing through the underwater levels, you can clearly see that the shipwreck is flipped upside down (take the upside down pool in the beginning of Wreck of the Maria Doria for example). If the Maria Doria is completely flipped upside down, then how is The Deck right side up? Was the ship somehow cut in half and flipped around while it sunk or something?

Necromanser
11-12-07, 07:42
Isnt it MARIA doria,Moria is a place form lord of the rings.

This must be one of the unsolved TR mysteries.

Molson
11-12-07, 07:45
Isnt it MARIA doria,Moria is a place form lord of the rings.

This must be one of the unsolved TR mysteries.

My bad, when I first wrote down Moria Doria, I've been used to it ever since. :hea:

kryptonite23
11-12-07, 08:32
That is what I am trying to solve fr ages :D

michaeldt
11-12-07, 08:57
the maria doria was divided up into about 4 parts (I dont know how many)
when the ship hit the bottom some of those parts were upside down or the right way around.

na_th_an
11-12-07, 09:47
Yeah, that's it. During sink, the ship was sectioned in several sections (sic) and that's why some are upside down, some aren't.

The Great Chi
11-12-07, 12:57
Heres my usual reply :D...

Question...What way is the ship lying on the Ocean Bottom ?

Answer....This has always been a puzzle for me trying to visulise it in three dimensions. I have been working on this one off and on for years, and have never really found a good diagram of it anywhere.

The way I tried to solve the puzzle myself, was to put the four levels together, 40 Fathoms, Wreck of the Maria Doria, Living Quarters, The Deck.

The result is totally out of the Twilight zone, ie, totally weird :D.

You wonder how a ship could possibly have the two lowest decks (levels) upsidedown and the rest correct side up, split horizontally and moved to one side. Also with the stern sheared off. It must have been one real disaster :p

It is buried within the bedrock, with only part of the keel showing on the ocean bed. There are waterfilled caves everywhere and an air tight massive cavern containing the rear deck section, and the broken off stern.

What we end up with is this 3D diagramatic picture (levels are colour coded for before sinking and after sinking) ...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/greatchi/mariaD.jpg

Aurimas
11-12-07, 13:47
That what I wanted to ask when I played this game.

rickybazire
11-12-07, 14:56
fantastic pic o great chi, lol :D

lets think about it logically, why did the ship sink in the first place, (i dunno y), but it was most likely split into pieces, the pieces dont just fall to the ground at the same angle and land the same way, cos in some places on the ship, it is heavier than other places...

...so most likely, it split, some areas of the ship were heavier than others and therefore turned, spun around in mid-water...

...thats my theory, :p

Cog
11-12-07, 17:54
Parts of the ship turning over isn't the problem - them ending in the caverns full of air is. Totally twilight, ja.

Tomb Raider Master
11-12-07, 19:33
Never actually paid attention to that to be honest. Nice... theory. :D

rr_carroll
12-12-07, 07:44
I'm pretty Zen about these things - if it's there, deal with it. But hasn't the cult done a lot of salvage work, sealing areas and pumping them full of air? That's what the Offshore Rig is for, to provide a working platform. They were successful, since the Storage Shed contains the Seraph. (Swiped by Lara Croft, Storage Shed Raider! :D)

na_th_an
12-12-07, 10:00
I don't think guys at Core thought very deep on this :P They just delivered the levels and that's all.

Maybe the upside-down ship is Maria Doria and the other one (the deck and stuff) is another one. Who knows?

kryptonite23
12-12-07, 10:39
I had an idea a while ago that Maria Doria is a part from the ship that was separated from teh deck.
Then one of them turned into other direction that's why the deck isn't like Maria Doria.

Mytly
13-12-07, 08:00
Brilliant diagram, Great Chi! It certainly clears up a lot of things. As for the massive air-filled caverns, I guess they were necessary for the level design, since Lara needed to breathe. ;)

What really bugs me about the Maria Doria levels is that the Seraph was just sitting there behind a puny little locked door. So Bartolli's men managed to get down to the bottom of the ocean in search of it, but they couldn't pick a lock or just break the door down to get the treasure they were seeking? :confused: :rolleyes: Lara, of course, being a Tomb Raider (or as rr_carroll points out, a Storage Shed Raider :D), has to go the long way around hunting for dozens of keys. ;)

EscondeR
13-12-07, 08:27
What really bugs me about the Maria Doria levels is that the Seraph was just sitting there behind a puny little locked door. So Bartolli's men managed to get down to the bottom of the ocean in search of it, but they couldn't pick a lock or just break the door down to get the treasure they were seeking? :confused: :rolleyes: Lara, of course, being a Tomb Raider (or as rr_carroll points out, a Storage Shed Raider :D), has to go the long way around hunting for dozens of keys. ;)

LMAO :tmb: Fair point :D

kryptonite23
13-12-07, 09:37
Brilliant diagram, Great Chi! It certainly clears up a lot of things. As for the massive air-filled caverns, I guess they were necessary for the level design, since Lara needed to breathe. ;)

What really bugs me about the Maria Doria levels is that the Seraph was just sitting there behind a puny little locked door. So Bartolli's men managed to get down to the bottom of the ocean in search of it, but they couldn't pick a lock or just break the door down to get the treasure they were seeking? :confused: :rolleyes: Lara, of course, being a Tomb Raider (or as rr_carroll points out, a Storage Shed Raider :D), has to go the long way around hunting for dozens of keys. ;)

LOL :vlol:
You're joking aren;t you?? :D

rr_carroll
13-12-07, 12:39
Your puzzlement is well taken, Mytly, which is why I assume that Bartoli's men put the Seraph in the shed. Bartoli may be insane, but he's not a fool - he doesn't trust his own people to send it to him. That's why he's on the plane to the offshore rig - he's preparing to carry it back personally. Lara just beat him to it.

Besides, did the monks place it in the Ancient Storage Shed of Neptune? It must have been in transport on the Maria Doria when it sank.

I don't mean to be derisive, it took me a mere 10 years to think of the above.

Alphonse
13-12-07, 18:49
wonderful work great-Chi !!!

I was thinking of doing one like this before… but never had enough courage and determination ^^
at least I am glad to see I'm not the only one that Maria Doria mysteries prevent from sleeping hehehe

well, in the plane, marco says someone (I don't remember the name) made the ship sink…
maybe the explosion unearthed the boat with a lot of rock ? :D

Eddie Guerrero12
13-12-07, 19:25
That diagram cleared it up a bit. Thanks! :D

DREWY
13-12-07, 21:06
Apparently the Maria Doria is based on a real wreck, The Andrea Doria (http://www.andreadoria.org/default.htm)
It lies on its side PIC HERE (http://www.dferg.net/AndreaDoria/gadoria2.gif)
There was a link to a thread HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=69314) (and another HERE (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=70447&highlight=Maria+Doria)) but the links to the main story, about a diver dying going down there, have been broken.

kryptonite23
14-12-07, 12:33
Thanks for the links DREWY :tmb:

Alphonse
14-12-07, 13:38
WOw thanks a lot Drewy ! I didn't know core took his insipration on a true story.
anyway, "Maria-Doria" sounds better than "Andrea-Doria" imo :D

Molson
16-12-07, 21:01
Heres my usual reply :D...

Question...What way is the ship lying on the Ocean Bottom ?

Answer....This has always been a puzzle for me trying to visulise it in three dimensions. I have been working on this one off and on for years, and have never really found a good diagram of it anywhere.

The way I tried to solve the puzzle myself, was to put the four levels together, 40 Fathoms, Wreck of the Maria Doria, Living Quarters, The Deck.

The result is totally out of the Twilight zone, ie, totally weird :D.

You wonder how a ship could possibly have the two lowest decks (levels) upsidedown and the rest correct side up, split horizontally and moved to one side. Also with the stern sheared off. It must have been one real disaster :p

It is buried within the bedrock, with only part of the keel showing on the ocean bed. There are waterfilled caves everywhere and an air tight massive cavern containing the rear deck section, and the broken off stern.

What we end up with is this 3D diagramatic picture (levels are colour coded for before sinking and after sinking) ...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/greatchi/mariaD.jpg

*Molson suddenly feels the strange urge to replay the underwater levels with Chi's screenshot as a reference.*

Beautiful image, Chi! You've inspired me to replay this area even more. :jmp:

The Great Chi
16-12-07, 23:02
Yeh, they are great levels :tmb:

ViolinistHDL
17-12-07, 11:45
I heard it was based of the ship from Posidon. I always hated the Maria Doria levels. That and venice.

Mytly
17-12-07, 21:39
Your puzzlement is well taken, Mytly, which is why I assume that Bartoli's men put the Seraph in the shed. Bartoli may be insane, but he's not a fool - he doesn't trust his own people to send it to him. That's why he's on the plane to the offshore rig - he's preparing to carry it back personally. Lara just beat him to it.

Besides, did the monks place it in the Ancient Storage Shed of Neptune? It must have been in transport on the Maria Doria when it sank.

I don't mean to be derisive, it took me a mere 10 years to think of the above.
Ah, that makes sense now. Good thinking! :tmb:

So I guess Bartoli's goons were hanging around the shipwreck just to keep Lara away from the prize, and not to retrieve it themselves.