View Full Version : Not Free-Roaming
In tlr's new article, he says that the game isn't free-roaming.......but the moves will be non-linear. -_- I was so disappointed when I read this.........
Lara's immersive world isn't free-roaminghttp://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines3376.html
Does this mean we'll be restricted to one path again like in Legend? Were the multiple (and sometimes intertwining) paths and opened up levels in Anniversary a one time thing? Will the exploring in this game be dumbed down? Will there even be any good exploration? :(:(:(
When I first read the article, I just said "ahhh, he said the moves will be non-linear. No worries" (=/). But after reading it again, I've come to realize that this is very bad and that tlr was only referring to the moves, not the actual game. I can't believe that after Anniversary, they're going to go back to linear 'single-paths' gameplay?!?! :( :mad: :( This is the most disappointing news I've heard about Underworld..:(:(:(
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 03:55
In tlr's new articles, he says that the game isn't free-roaming.......but the moves will be non-linear. -_- I was so disappointed when I read this.........
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines3376.html
Does this mean we'll be restricted to one path again like in Legend? Were the multiple (and sometimes intertwining) paths and opened up levels in Anniversary a one time thing? Will the exploring in this game be dumbed down? Will there even be any good exploration? :(:(:(
When I first read the article, I just said "ahhh, he said the moves will be non-linear. No worries" (=/). But after reading it again, I've come to realize that this is very bad and that tlr was only referring to the moves, not the actual game. I can't believe that after Anniversary, they're going to go back to linear 'single-paths' gameplay?!?! :( :mad: :( This is the most disappointing news I've heard about Underworld..:(:(:(
No free roaming is like GTA or oblivion...
TR would be a little lame if was like either of those games...
both are good but TR they are not...
I'm sure there will be multiple paths....
I really hope that they are saying one thing to the public one thing and doing another which is what i really hope because if not then Crystal D really needs to work on that. What does non linear moves mean anywhoo?
No free roaming is like GTA or oblivion...
TR would be a little lame if was like either of those games...
both are good but TR they are not...
I'm sure there will be multiple paths....
TR has always been a semi-free-roamish game. Part of the TR formula is throwing you into a huge interactive environment, then allowing you to explore and navigate on your own...not force-feed you one route with a bright highlighted path.
I really hope that they are saying one thing to the public one thing and doing another which is what i really hope because if not then Crystal D really needs to work on that. What does non linear moves mean anywhoo?
Move in any direction, like the AoD rock climbing.
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:03
I thought part of being Tomb Raider is exploring.:confused:
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:03
TR has always been a semi-free-roamish game. Part of the TR formula is throwing you into a huge interactive environment, then allowing you to explore and navigate on your own...not force-feed you one route with a bright highlighted path.
But like i said...
Free roaming is like GTA or Oblivion or A game where you free roam everywhere....
TRU will most likely have multiple paths...
But multiple paths is NOT free roaming so please stop worrying;)
We will have a official news in a few days...
So be patient and don't assume...
all it does is ruin the experience for you...
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:05
I second the question, how can moves be non linear, and how should that compense the linearity of the gameplay....
In my opinion a game with no free roaming is not intresting nor exiting... specially when having to replay a zone or a fight after being killed, and let's not talk about the replay value... Honestlym I didn`t replay anniversary because it was boring, I didn't accomplish time trials because I didnt enjoy replaying the game....
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:08
Can't Lara Croft do anything for once for herself. Well, for myself. Choose my own path. Explore where ever the hell I want. It's annoying when you can't climb on a ledge that's not even taller than you :mad:.
Dont be confused,free-roaming never was on a TR game.Im sure that will be diferent paths and stuff,but they are talking about that the game would not be with open spaces like Crysis,GTA or Oblivion.The explorations and the big levels like in TRA or any other TR will be again on TRU ;)
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:11
Dont be confused,free-roaming never was on a TR game.Im sure that will be diferent paths and stuff,but they are talking about that the game would not be with open spaces like Crysis,GTA or Oblivion.The explorations and the big levels like in TRA or any other TR will be again on TRU ;)
Thank You!
that's what i said but i thought no one was getting it....
TR has never or will never be Free roaming...
That would be kinda weird....
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:12
Dont be confused,free-roaming never was on a TR game.Im sure that will be diferent paths and stuff,but they are talking about that the game would not be with open spaces like Crysis,GTA or Oblivion.The explorations and the big levels like in TRA or any other TR will be again on TRU ;)
Ok im trying to get it... but what's the difference in open spaces and big levels.
But like i said...
Free roaming is like GTA or Oblivion or A game where you free roam everywhere....
TRU will most likely have multiple paths...
But multiple paths is NOT free roaming so please stop worrying;)
We will have a official news in a few days...
So be patient and don't assume...
all it does is ruin the experience for you...
Well for me, multiple paths = free-roaming. That's how I see it.
I second the question, how can moves be non linear, and how should that compense the linearity of the gameplay....
In my opinion a game with no free roaming is not intresting nor exiting... specially when having to replay a zone or a fight after being killed, and let's not talk about the replay value... Honestlym I didn`t replay anniversary because it was boring, I didn't accomplish time trials because I didnt enjoy replaying the game....
I actually find replaying TR:A more satisfying than Legend because of its open-ness and semi-free-roam approach to its design (in some levels). With Legend, it's the same thing over and over....the player doesn't have a choice of which area to go to first or which puzzle to solve first etc.
TR:U's gonna be a big disappoint to me if there aren't multiple paths or free-roam-like levels (like St. Francis Folly for example). :(
Move in any direction, like the AoD rock climbing.
Thats nice but it doesnt really affect anythingin terms of the gameplay if the levels themselves are linear.
Example: Lets use the outside training course of either TR2 or TR3. When you get to a certian point a climbable surface is split into two sides you can climb up either and move around freely n any direction but your still confined to the path that the training course sets for you. i hope crystal D's game is nothing like that.
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:15
Well for me, multiple paths = free-roaming. That's how I see it.
That's how you see it though...
Free roaming to the gaming world is like GTA...
Keep in mind i am not attacking you...
I am re-assuring you..
So just keep in mind TR has never been free roaming...
Thats nice but it doesnt really affect anythingin terms of the gameplay if the levels themselves are linear.
Example: Lets use the outside training course of either TR2 or TR3. When you get to a certian point a climbable surface is split into two sides you can climb up either and move around freely n any direction but your still confined to the path that the training course sets for you. i hope crystal D's game is nothing like that.
I know that....that's why I made this thread. I fear that TR:U's mainly gonna be a linear game with non-linear elements like the free-climbing, 'create your own pole' etc.
Polonio Croft,the difference is that when i said Big levels im talking about on a level itself.For example,Egypt on TRA.And when i said big spaces,i mean...the scenarios of those leves(example;The obelisc of Kamon).Did you get it? ;)
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:18
Wait.
Free roaming is to explore. Why can't I explore. Isn't that what Tomb Raiding is about? Exploring? So why is it weird?
My brain has turned to pop corn so I wish for some one to explain. I'll give you a cookie or something.
Let's be realistic - ever since AOD, the formula that made TR unique has been lost. AOD was more linear and the control scheme was a clunky mess. Legend was completely linear, and the control scheme was dumbed down, and well, pretty clunky in it's own right. Anniversary was a definite improvement from Legend, but not good enough IMHO and still too far from the roots of what TR. Still not based on what TR was from the start. I've come to a point with TR in expecting to be let down. But that's because I'm an old-school TR gamer who is looking for the original TR gaming style in 2008 eye candy. The eye candy is, of course, FAR less important than the actual gaming experience! And the gaming experience that was TR has been lost. Sadly.
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:20
Wait.
Free roaming is to explore. Why can't I explore. Isn't that what Tomb Raiding is about? Exploring? So why is it weird?
FREE ROAMING IS LIKE GTA AND OBLIVION!!!!:hea:
TR has never been like either of those games...
Don't you think that would kinda make TR a little less TR?
That's how you see it though...
Free roaming to the gaming world is like GTA...
Keep in mind i am not attacking you...
I am re-assuring you..
So just keep in mind TR has never been free roaming...
so if GTA is free roaming what would TR be classified as?
I will repeat just one more time guys...
Dont be confused,free-roaming never was on a TR game.Im sure that will be diferent paths and stuff,but they are talking about that the game would not be with open spaces like Crysis,GTA or Oblivion.The explorations and the big levels like in TRA or any other TR will be again on TRU.
So,isn`t logical to say that if there`s no free roaming the game would not be the same.TR NEVER HAD FREE-ROAMING.;)
TR is action-adventure and it always will be.The fact that the game is about a character that "explore"a zone to find something doesn`t mean that it`s free-roaming.
That's how you see it though...
Free roaming to the gaming world is like GTA...
Keep in mind i am not attacking you...
I am re-assuring you..
So just keep in mind TR has never been free roaming...
We all know that TR's never been free-roaming like GTA! It's the level design that was free-roam-like. Take Temple of Karnak from TR4 or Temple Ruins from TR3, those are free-roam TR levels! Lots of different paths and exploration involved, but all contained in a small sandbox-like environment free for you to explore.
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:22
so if GTA is free roaming what would TR be classified as?
Adventure/Platformer/Action
;)
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:24
Polonio Croft,the difference is that when i said Big levels im talking about on a level itself.For example,Egypt on TRA.And when i said big spaces,i mean...the scenarios of those leves(example;The obelisc of Kamon).Did you get it? ;)
Thank you very much, then I'm still sad, I'll love to have huge areas to explore and to find secrets in... but then ill be ok as long as they are really well hidden and that goes to the artifacts as well...
Everyone just needs to step back and calm down, this has become an argument over semantics.
I dont want a game that looks like a big hallway , please CD think !!!
Wait.
Free roaming is to explore. Why can't I explore. Isn't that what Tomb Raiding is about? Exploring? So why is it weird?
My brain has turned to pop corn so I wish for some one to explain. I'll give you a cookie or something.
It isn't weird. It's what TR used to be and it's what TR SHOULD be. And it's one of the main components that made most of us old-school TR gamers fall in love with the game. Exploring the enviroment. No flashing hints on where to go and what to do. Being completely alone and having to use your own wits to make it through the enviroment. Sadly, most of this has been lost. Core's original formula has been thrown out the window, when all it needed was to be spruced up.
florinandrei
03-01-08, 04:25
TR has never been free-roaming. Yes, a particular large area in a level appears to be "free roaming", but the whole game is not like SecondLife.
There's no need for TRU to be free-roaming. Multiple paths are just fine, thank you. If done correctly, multiple paths create the illusion of freedom to explore. If the illusion is good enough, then that's all that the game is supposed to do.
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:26
I was gonna give you a cookie, Carboneck. But you kind off went ****y at me when I was just asking a question :).
Wait i thought the cookie thing was my shtick? lol
(i am the owner of all cookies)
On topic: But no, i was just trying to say that Tr has never been free roaming...
It has been an adventure game since the beggining...
lol
i wasn't trying to be hostile....;)
Come on boys,this forum must be filled with love
:D
TR has never been free-roaming. Yes, a particular large area in a level appears to be "free roaming", but the whole game is not like SecondLife.
There's no need for TRU to be free-roaming. Multiple paths are just fine, thank you. If done correctly, multiple paths create the illusion of freedom to explore. If the illusion is good enough, then that's all that the game is supposed to do.
Free-roaming = exploring
That's what free-roaming is and that's what the classic TRs were about. The levels were mini-sandbox environments that allowed you to explore freely and choose your own path (out of the available paths). I want this back in TR:U....badly. :(
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:37
I will repeat just one more time guys...
Dont be confused,free-roaming never was on a TR game.Im sure that will be diferent paths and stuff,but they are talking about that the game would not be with open spaces like Crysis,GTA or Oblivion.The explorations and the big levels like in TRA or any other TR will be again on TRU.
So,isn`t logical to say that if there`s no free roaming the game would not be the same.TR NEVER HAD FREE-ROAMING.;)
TR is action-adventure and it always will be.The fact that the game is about a character that "explore"a zone to find something doesn`t mean that it`s free-roaming.
Ok I've seen some footages on GTA and Oblivion... Evan C. is right TR has never been as these games ever... so guys take a look...
Oblivion
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u5HtHZMQXeU&feature=related
GTA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HLjHx_2x2EM
We have never been able to wander arround in a vast enourmous space, we've had enourmous AREAS to explore, and that's it...in these games you could travel by feet across the whole city or camps half an hour doing nothing but that....
I don't believe we've done that in any of TR games... NOW I understood what this stuff of free roaming is about... That soesn't mean that we will not have spaces to explore or multiple paths...!!!
tranniversary119
03-01-08, 04:37
I get it, like others are saying. The game wont be an open world where you dont have to do the main mission but it will have levels (obvs.) The game will be like the classics where you have to go back and forth to get keys, ect. how do i know? Because the enviorment remebers so well def be visiting the same places
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:38
OK, let me put this together without any of this -->:hea: or this -->:cen: or --> "DON'T YOU GET IT?!"
Free roaming is GTA meaning what it literally sounds: Free roaming. Going *anywhere* that you like.
Multiple paths - just a variety of paths that you can explore.
TR:U isn't free roaming because TR has never been exactly free roaming in the style of going EVERY WHERE. It's always been the multiple paths type where you were aloud to explore in some.
So, am I getting this or do I still need some one to give me a lecture?
Ward Dragon
03-01-08, 04:38
I don't think anyone should be worried yet :) As I understand it, free-roaming is when we have a giant area that the entire game takes place in and we can go wherever we want, usually having to go back and forth over the same sections many times to complete sub-quests.
TRU has a story which will apparently take us to many different places. I assume that once we get what we need in one place, we will move on to the next place without the ability to go back. I also don't think that there will be many (if any) characters we run across during our exploration which would tell us about sub-quests to complete (many free-roaming games have a *lot* of sub-quests where you run into a character who wants you to go back to point X for whatever reason and then once you get there, another character wants you to go to point Y, and then you end up spending 3 hours running in circles doing errands :p).
So basically, I didn't expect TRU to be free-roaming so I'm not surprised. I think it can still have a lot of exploration and multiple paths without being truly free-roaming :)
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:41
OK, let me put this together without any of this -->:hea: or this -->:cen: or --> "DON'T YOU GET IT?!"
Free roaming is GTA meaning what it literally sounds: Free roaming. Going *anywhere* that you like.
Multiple paths - just a variety of paths that you can explore.
TR:U isn't free roaming because TR has never been exactly free roaming in the style of going EVERY WHERE. It's always been the multiple paths type where you were aloud to explore in some.
So, am I getting this or do I still need some one to give me a lecture?
I'm sure you got it
Carbonek_0051
03-01-08, 04:41
OK, let me put this together without any of this -->:hea: or this -->:cen: or --> "DON'T YOU GET IT?!"
Free roaming is GTA meaning what it literally sounds: Free roaming. Going *anywhere* that you like.
Multiple paths - just a variety of paths that you can explore.
TR:U isn't free roaming because TR has never been exactly free roaming in the style of going EVERY WHERE. It's always been the multiple paths type where you were aloud to explore in some.
So, am I getting this or do I still need some one to give me a lecture?
You got it right....:tmb:
Now time for me to give you my signature cookie and high five...:D
GTA:Free Roaming
TR:Multiple Path/Adventure
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 04:44
So, lets not worry about guys, Though i think the news shoudn't have had the term free roaming in it... it just created pandemonium here LOL
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:46
You got it right....:tmb:
Now time for me to give you my signature cookie and high five...:D
GTA:Free Roaming
TR:Multiple Path/Adventure
Why thank you. I'll think I'll have that cookie :).
I don't think anyone should be worried yet :) As I understand it, free-roaming is when we have a giant area that the entire game takes place in and we can go wherever we want, usually having to go back and forth over the same sections many times to complete sub-quests.
TRU has a story which will apparently take us to many different places. I assume that once we get what we need in one place, we will move on to the next place without the ability to go back. I also don't think that there will be many (if any) characters we run across during our exploration which would tell us about sub-quests to complete (many free-roaming games have a *lot* of sub-quests where you run into a character who wants you to go back to point X for whatever reason and then once you get there, another character wants you to go to point Y, and then you end up spending 3 hours running in circles doing errands :p).
So basically, I didn't expect TRU to be free-roaming so I'm not surprised. I think it can still have a lot of exploration and multiple paths without being truly free-roaming :)
You guys aren't getting it..:( Why would tlr say "not free-roaming" if it's something the franchise has never been (GTA/Oblivion-style)?? There's a reason why he said "isn't free roaming" and it's not to remind people that TR isn't GTA.
Maybe because there was certain rumours that needed to be discarded...
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 04:52
You guys aren't getting it..:( Why would tlr say "not free-roaming" if it's something the franchise has never been (GTA/Oblivion-style)?? There's a reason why he said "isn't free roaming" and it's not to remind people that TR isn't GTA.
That's nothing to be worried about, gt. You're kind off getting too upset over nothing. I understand you, but I don't want you or any one getting upset without taking a look at the game and waiting for more info on it.
Ward Dragon
03-01-08, 04:56
You guys aren't getting it..:( Why would tlr say "not free-roaming" if it's something the franchise has never been (GTA/Oblivion-style)?? There's a reason why he said "isn't free roaming" and it's not to remind people that TR isn't GTA.
The article says that CD are the ones insisting that it's not free-roaming but it is more non-linear (I assume that's compared to their previous TR games since it mentions they tried to get away from ledges). They probably don't want to give false impressions which would lead to disappointment :)
"While Crystal Dynamics are keen to point out that Lara's immersive world isn't free-roaming, a greater arsenal of moves adds a more non-linear veneer to the adventure. "
I agree lets wait for more info is too early to talk about somany things that we dont know yet...lets calm down lol
and yes maybe they are saying that... that now is not only ledges , that make the game very linear , now there are multiple ways ( or moves) to get to something like the climbing, etc...
That's nothing to be worried about, gt. You're kind off getting too upset over nothing. I understand you, but I don't want you or any one getting upset without taking a look at the game and waiting for more info on it.
Hmmmm......I think you might be right. This comment might've hit me the wrong way........plus, I really don't want another linear game. >_< I accepted it for Legend because that game needed to restart and get everyone interested in TR again. Anniversary was a big improvement over it and a step in the right direction, and everything was sounding awesome about Underworld up until this. :( *sigh* However, I'm hoping the game itself will have multiple paths and lots of exploration.
The article says that CD are the ones insisting that it's not free-roaming but it is more non-linear (I assume that's compared to their previous TR games since it mentions they tried to get away from ledges). They probably don't want to give false impressions which would lead to disappointment :)
"While Crystal Dynamics are keen to point out that Lara's immersive world isn't free-roaming, a greater arsenal of moves adds a more non-linear veneer to the adventure. "
Her moves...this article talks about her new climbing move that allows her to move in any direction, making it non-linear.
Ward Dragon
03-01-08, 05:05
Her moves...this article talks about her new climbing move that allows her to move in any direction, making it non-linear.
I thought that meant that Lara has more abilities so there can be more pathways for her to find, which would make the levels more non-linear :)
Free-Roam refers to Lara been able to walk around the airport, walk around the plane.. get to her level, and do anything she wants. Kill civilians, drive cars.. rob banks. You know, the usual. :p
Non Free-Roam doesnt nessceraily mean you can't free roam in the level. Its just saying its not going to be get a plane to your next level manually type free-roam. As say, GTA is. ;)
Its already confirmed the levels wont be linear, and from the screens it proves this alittle..
Well i' hope i'm right. :D
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 05:08
Hmmmm......I think you might be right. This comment might've hit me the wrong way........plus, I really don't want another linear game. >_< I accepted it for Legend because that game needed to restart and get everyone interested in TR again. Anniversary was a big improvement over it and a step in the right direction, and everything was sounding awesome about Underworld up until this. :( *sigh* However, I'm hoping the game itself will have multiple paths and lots of exploration.
Don't worry, it will. I understand how nervous you are - I think the lot of us are. But we should be optimistic and not jump into conclusions. I know you want free roaming. But there will be more multiple paths and lots of exploring to do. It's not bad :).
Try to relax. Not trying to shut you up, but take a breather. I think we are all a bit jumpy and excited on this game :).
I thought that meant that Lara has more abilities so there can be more pathways for her to find, which would make the levels more non-linear :)
That's what I thought at first until I read it again. -_-
Free-Roam refers to Lara been able to walk around the airport, walk around the plane.. get to her level, and do anything she wants. Kill civilians, drive cars.. rob banks. You know, the usual. :p
Non Free-Roam doesnt nessceraily mean you can't free roam in the level. Its just saying its not going to be get a plane to your next level manually type free-roam. As say, GTA is. ;)
Its already confirmed the levels wont be linear, and from the screens it proves this alittle..
Well i' hope i'm right. :D
I do too. :D But, you're definition of free-roam is not the same as mine. ;) Free-roaming is just that itself, roaming free around an area, exploring. I consider the classic TRs (1-5) to be semi-free-roam/mini-sandbox games because of their exploration and non-linearity.
Don't worry, it will. I understand how nervous you are - I think the lot of us are. But we should be optimistic and not jump into conclusions. I know you want free roaming. But there will be more multiple paths and lots of exploring to do. It's not bad :).
Try to relax. Not trying to shut you up, but take a breather. I think we are all a bit jumpy and excited on this game :).
I am trying to be optimistic, but when I read comments like this, it does get you a little nervous. I think it's safe to say that none of us want another 'Legend' gameplay-wise.
This bit of news was especially disappointing because of the progress CD had made with Anniversary. I'm hoping that they'll improve on that, not Legend. But, you're right, I think I should just stop and wait till we get some more official stuff before I start judging the game like this.
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 05:28
I agree, Legend was bleh. Anniversary did some improvement but was still bleh for me for other reasons...
Anyways, I think we need to be careful reading comments like that. It's not good to jump into conclusions.
I admit, that one thing that gets me worried is the engine being used for TR:U is the same engine used as TR:L but with modifications. I don't know...
Maybe a simple trailer can be the solution to this....:D
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 06:00
*plays heavenly tune*
Oh, there is still hope.
Polinio Croft
03-01-08, 06:12
and my hope is that the trailer doesn`t spoils to much....
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 06:29
I hope they don't cut the good stuff from the trailer like they did in Legend.
I hope they don't cut the good stuff from the trailer like they did in Legend.
oh I hope that too
I'm still hoping... non-linear, non-linear, non-linear... pleeease :(
Crofty_Tomb
03-01-08, 10:31
free roaming would be like throwing lara in a huge island and the only thing that restricts you from going out of there is the ocean which you most probably be able to swim in. that is free roaming when was tomb raider like that? the pics of underworld show a huge world for exploration and what they have said shows we have a lot to see and do.
free roaming would be like throwing lara in a huge island and the only thing that restricts you from going out of there is the ocean which you most probably be able to swim in. that is free roaming when was tomb raider like that? the pics of underworld show a huge world for exploration and what they have said shows we have a lot to see and do.
I agree! That'd be not very much fun...
Yuna´s Wish
03-01-08, 12:33
Like everyone else in this thread has said, TR never got free-roaming or anything alike (which is excellent, IMO). TR is an organised adventure in a chaotic world. It has always had that linearity that makes us drool when we find a room with a puzzle and we know we can use the 3 artifacts we got to open that only door that leads to that only exit.
I hope, however, some of the levels have multiple paths but not every level...otherwise it´d make the game easier: usually, when there´re more paths, it means you failed doing something -difficult, maybe- so a path became inaccesible (like Tomb of Semerhket). Sometimes it´s just about choosing (like in the River Ganges). Sometimes it´s because of an accident (like in the River Ganges, because you accidentally moved with your Quadbike a bit further than you had to and fall to a place you can´t go back from with the vehicle). If all the levels are like that it´ll feel quite unnatural.
free roaming would be like throwing lara in a huge island and the only thing that restricts you from going out of there is the ocean which you most probably be able to swim in. that is free roaming when was tomb raider like that? the pics of underworld show a huge world for exploration and what they have said shows we have a lot to see and do.
Agree, my concept of free roaming is something like Assassin's Creed. Tomb Raider *can* be made free roaming - if an entire game consisted of a giant lost city and we figure out the story randomly at different locations like the city temple or the city catacombs...
Actually that might not be a bad idea... lol
Why can't they make her climb like you can in Assassins Creed? The climbing in that has to be the best ever!
A thread about this wouldn't be necessary considering most people commented on the issue on the original thread but ok.
Like I (and others) said Tomb Raider was never really "free roaming". The issue is that maybe people wanted it to be now, and are disapointed, but I'm not because free roaming and multiple paths are completely diferent things. And one doesn't exclude the other. In fact, a game could be free roaming (that is, completely free to explore) and still have only one way of completing the objective, which would make the replay value suck.
ThomasCroft
03-01-08, 14:31
I'm sure Underworld will be non-linear and allow exploration. But we should wait until we get more information before we start drawing conclusions!
We are all really nervous about this game, but it's no use worrying when we have nothing much to go on! :)
The only way to make it free roaming is to allow her to climb everything and anything and stand on top of anything. Seeing they want to keep us on track and keep us off non story related areas, I don't see CD allowing that. Shame really, because it could be cool to discover ways around a difficult area, come in from the other side, ambush the ambushers, skip long routes, etc.
The only way to make it free roaming is to allow her to climb everything and anything and stand on top of anything. Seeing they want to keep us on track and keep us off non story related areas, I don't see CD allowing that. Shame really, because it could be cool to discover ways around a difficult area, come in from the other side, ambush the ambushers, skip long routes, etc.
Just like Assassin's Creed. That's exactly what Tomb Raider should be like; ultimate explorations.
Add a ton of moves to that and you have dozens of way to explore everything.
Just like Assassin's Creed. That's exactly what Tomb Raider should be like; ultimate explorations.
Add a ton of moves to that and you have dozens of way to explore everything.
Not to get too much off subject, but AC is very clever in how it restricts you :) You can only really actually climb where they want you to climb there are loads of places you cannot climb and have to trapse around for ages finding the actual route you CAN take. :)
Oh and whats the fun in being able to get everywhere if you can only `pickpocket/fight/listen/interrogate (oh wait thats fight but with a cutscene first)/climb` when you get there. Not much variation after u've finished first area, actually aside from getting bothered more game doesnt actually change much at all after first level :(
I think, that often, the problem is that we are insatiable fans.
When it appeared TR:A, two days later, some forum's members had finished it!:eek:
TRA was a game in which almost everybody knew the way or what was going to happen.
There was too much prior information to my liking. We were able to watch videos of all levels, and what was the puzles resolution.
:cln:TRU is a new game, in all meaning:cln: We don't know what awaits us behind the next corner and I would like if possible to continue that way.
So, I ask only that they don't disclose too much information about the routes and roads. Because, if there is only one way, I want to be the first to see that road without having to stop being a fan. ;)
Tomb Raider would be a bag of ****, if it was free-roaming. The Mexico level looks pretty open to me. I like the levels to be pretty open and multi-pathed, but not the hole free-roaming thing. Don't worry, guys, I think the game will be alot multi-pahted. Even with just a few paths, it's OK I think.
I think, that often, the problem is that we are insatiable fans.
When it appeared TR:A, two days later, some forum's members had finished it!:eek:
TRA was a game in which almost everybody knew the way or what was going to happen.
There was too much prior information to my liking. We were able to watch videos of all levels, and what was the puzles resolution.
:cln:TRU is a new game, in all meaning:cln: We don't know what awaits us behind the next corner and I would like if possible to continue that way.
So, I ask only that they don't disclose too much information about the routes and roads. Because, if there is only one way, I want to be the first to see that road without having to stop being a fan. ;)
Did anyone force you to watch all the videos? If you can't resists, don't complain you know the whole game before the release.
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 17:44
I think, that often, the problem is that we are insatiable fans.
When it appeared TR:A, two days later, some forum's members had finished it!
TRA was a game in which almost everybody knew the way or what was going to happen.
There was too much prior information to my liking. We were able to watch videos of all levels, and what was the puzles resolution.
I registered in this forum in September after TR:A release and I already passed in 3 days. I didn't even know the game was coming out until a guy from EB games store told me and bought it from the spot. In other words, reason why people passed it in like two days was because it was too bloody easy. Nothing to do with spoilers and clips.
There was no free-roaming in all TR history. Free Roaming is like Assassin's Creed and GTA, not Tomb Raider.
Inform you before creating you thread.
Did anyone force you to watch all the videos? If you can't resists, don't complain you know the whole game before the release.
DITTO
And to be honest, I wouldn't like TRU to be a free-roaring thingy, I just hate been thrown into an imersive enviroment and just fugure out the way I supposed to go, I prefer the-way-is-there-but-find-out-how-to-get-to-it style:)
Not to get too much off subject, but AC is very clever in how it restricts you :) You can only really actually climb where they want you to climb there are loads of places you cannot climb and have to trapse around for ages finding the actual route you CAN take. :)
Oh and whats the fun in being able to get everywhere if you can only `pickpocket/fight/listen/interrogate (oh wait thats fight but with a cutscene first)/climb` when you get there. Not much variation after u've finished first area, actually aside from getting bothered more game doesnt actually change much at all after first level :(
The second part has nothing to do with free roaming. I'll admit that AC was pretty repetetive, but going almost everywhere you like was awesome and provided more than enough fun.
If this was to be used in Tomb Raider, we could be able to explore areas much better than like we were able in Legend or Anniversary.
It's very simple; if it looks like it's climbable/reachable.. it should be
And to be honest, I wouldn't like TRU to be a free-roaring thingy, I just hate been thrown into an imersive enviroment and just fugure out the way I supposed to go, I prefer the-way-is-there-but-find-out-how-to-get-to-it style
Hmm, that's what's Tomb Raider used to be like. You have to get from point A to B, it's up to you to figure out how to get there.
Explorations is key, the game isn't called TOMB Raider for nothing, tombs are exciting because you can explore them.
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
It's very simple; if it looks like it's climbable/reachable.. it should be.
Hmm, that's what's Tomb Raider used to be like. You have to get from point A to B, it's up to you to figure out how to get there.
Explorations is key, the game isn't called TOMB Raider for nothing, tombs are exciting because you can explore them.
Totally agree with you on these points. :tmb:
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 17:56
I just want multiple paths and to have lots of exploration. Tomb Raider is exploring. TR was never free-roaming, true, but would like to explore a lot.
Does this mean we'll be restricted to one path again like in Legend?
I'm sure the facts and features thread says that TRU will be more open ended than ever before.
If this doesn't mean freedom-to-roam then I assume it means there will be multiple paths through each level.
:wve:
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
Completely true, but chances are you still have to figure out how to get your way through them. Meaning ledges and stuff aren't shiny but blend in, just like they used to.
That's what was great about the classics. If you saw a square, you just knew you could vault (sp?) onto it, grab it, hang from the ledge, stand on it unless it wasn't straight, you would slide off of it.
I get that the series has to move on, but I've said this before and I keep saying this again; Lara's moves/abilities are the most important thing in the game, the more moves/abilities she has, the more ways you have to explore the environment.
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
hm yea but that would not make a very good game now would it, I dont want another tomb of qualopec TRA-style level in Underworld.
Oh and for the AC gaemplay thing, its might be a waste of time to be able to climb every wall but it sure would be fun, angel of darkness had more freedom in that way one was able to climb the roof i liked that thing (i know it was forced upon but it felt great and freer than just jumping and running and ledge hop) why not make it so she can climb cave walls use the ac style but refine it
ajrich17901
03-01-08, 18:11
Honestly i dont mind it cuz tomb raider had never been free roaming.
Yuna´s Wish
03-01-08, 18:16
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
As long as we often get BIG (not HUGE...but just big) often spaces. Are we getting them Jay? I love tight and cramped...but big places are nice to solve puzzles/explore/fight more than 6 enemies at the same time.
Did anyone force you to watch all the videos? If you can't resists, don't complain you know the whole game before the release.
:rolleyes:
http://i5.tinypic.com/72a2u88.jpg
Maybe you are able don't do it....I no :p
ThomasCroft
03-01-08, 18:20
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
As long as there are a variety of areas to explore ...
Ultimately, that's what we want as players. But you lot know that already, right?
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 18:25
I'm sure that's pretty much what all players are asking for. Some wishes free-roaming but TR was never really free-roaming. Took me a while, I admit, to understand it. It's just has multiple paths for you to explore.
I would like to keep the multiple paths, of course. This is Tomb Raider and it is about discovering and exploring. But I don't want to be exactly as a free roaming because you're in a tomb with a mission: To obtain a certain artifact. Not roaming around and wasting time :p.
Some one else mentioned this elsewhere in the threads, how about whole levels as a puzzle? That would showcase the need for free roaming to explore every possible avenue to solve the entire level rather than just a puzzle room within the level. (somewhat how the palace midas or st. francis follies levels worked for instance)
Maybe you are able don't do it....I no :p
Fine, but don't complain. If you can't resist, that's your problem.
On topic:
In the recent Level 21 magazine preview, they said they found a good balance between linearity and free roaming. Hope they really did.
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 19:38
Fine, but don't complain. If you can't resist, that's your problem.
On topic:
In the recent Level 21 magazine preview, they said they found a good balance between linearity and free roaming. Hope they really did.
Mhm :)
The Tomb Raider games have always been about exploring, and “exploration” is probably the most important keyword for TRU. We want to make the gamers feel like they are the first ones who explore these untouched places. The pouring rain doesn’t just fill this level with atmosphere, but it affects the gameplay, Lara can as an example slip while climbing a ledge.
That's excellent. I'm really excited about that. I hope this will calm gtkilla :p.
Slip while climbing a ledge. Ah, brings back old TR memories.
Good news.
Too bad so many members here have no idea what free roaming is.
TR, usually the classics, dont have free roaming.
there were:
Multiple paths to take and interactable/explorable places. gave the illusion of a free environment.
like the first level of TR3, many different paths b/c the place is interactable. not necessarily free-roaming.
it'd be nice to have that back. its like being thrown in a giant environment to explore.
savy?
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 19:46
I think they get confused with multiple paths meaning free roaming. They are both two different things.
True, there were only 2 or 3 ways to go at best in the old games, but, at least you could go up to any wall, ledge, etc and try to jump up on it or out to it. Sure they weren't all reachable or would kill you, but at least we could try them out. The CD games so far don't allow us to even try accessing off the beaten path routes. I did love using the fly cheats after beating old TR games to access any area in a game. Unfortunately the fly cheat for the console games CD made so far land you on unfinished grounds off the beaten paths, you just fall thru them because they have not been rendered solid.
Okay, I feel the need to clarify this because people are just not getting it.
I'm not nor was I ever expecting TR:U to be "free-roaming" like GTA, Oblivion, Saint's Row etc.
The "isn't free-roaming" comment in tlr's article just set something off in my head and I overreacted to it a bit. I associate the term "free-roam" with "exploration", so in my mind it sounded like tlr was really saying "Lara's immersive world isn't explorable"......NOW, do you understand why I made this thread?
Mhm :)
That's excellent. I'm really excited about that. I hope this will calm gtkilla :p.
Slip while climbing a ledge. Ah, brings back old TR memories.
Damn right, it did! :jmp: The whole article itself just got me 10x as hyped as I was before!!!! :jmp: :jmp: :jmp: I'm SOOOOO relieved and excited!!! :jmp::jmp:
Chiki Mina
03-01-08, 21:23
Yay! Glad you're happy :hug:.
Ward Dragon
03-01-08, 21:51
Why can't they make her climb like you can in Assassins Creed? The climbing in that has to be the best ever!
According to the newest magazine article, they did make her climbing similar to Assassin's Creed :D
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=115784
Not to get too much off subject, but AC is very clever in how it restricts you :) You can only really actually climb where they want you to climb there are loads of places you cannot climb and have to trapse around for ages finding the actual route you CAN take. :)
Oh, I definitely figured that out :hea: :vlol: That's why I'm hoping that Underworld will be even more interactive than Assassin's Creed, although I'd be happy if it was about the same level. I mean, I know that there have to be places I can't reach right away in order to force me to explore. I just hope there won't be annoying instances like in Assassin's Creed where I was shimmying along the molding outside of a church and Altair went around one corner but then refused to go around a seemingly identical corner. That forced me to spend a good 15 minutes scanning the other three walls of the building to figure out where the path was to get to the look-out point :hea: That was annoying rather than fun because I couldn't see any logical reason for why he could go around one corner but not the other.
Oh and whats the fun in being able to get everywhere if you can only `pickpocket/fight/listen/interrogate (oh wait thats fight but with a cutscene first)/climb` when you get there. Not much variation after u've finished first area, actually aside from getting bothered more game doesnt actually change much at all after first level :(
Very true. I'm hoping Underworld will have much more variety :D
Yeh but tombs arent always HUGE open places, sometimes they are tight and cramped etc ;)
Also true. I want the tight and cramped places to be interesting, though. I felt that TRA had too many tunnels that didn't have anything of value in them. They were just there to connect the rooms. I think there should be branches, alcoves, dead-ends, and artwork to give each tunnel a unique feeling.
Also, letting me save anywhere allows me to save exactly right before I know I'm about to do something stupid. With the checkpoints, I frequently had to run through the exact same empty hallway many times when I was having trouble with a particular jump, so the hallway became very annoying simply because I resented having to waste time going down it prior to each attempt.
:rolleyes:
http://i5.tinypic.com/72a2u88.jpg
Maybe you are able don't do it....I no :p
Oh wow! :vlol:
TR has always been a semi-free-roamish game. Part of the TR formula is throwing you into a huge interactive environment, then allowing you to explore and navigate on your own...not force-feed you one route with a bright highlighted path.
I agree with you. I miss the non-linearity of the classic TRs. This is depressing news.
They also said this in an article (take note that this is a translation (by george_croft) so not everything might be absolutely accurate):
Most modern games are getting a lot bigger and not as linear as before. They let the players chose their own path and make their own gaming experience. But the TR games are still rather linear. Have you thought about changing this or do you intend to leave things as they are?
- We’ve thought a lot about it, and its possibly something we’ll take advantage of for coming TR games. But there are some things that are essential for a TR game that just wouldn’t work out in such environments. We’d like to work on making one amazing TR experience, rather than making something that just isn’t living up to people expectations when playing it. But we’ve found a great balance of both linearity and free roaming for TRU, giving the player huge environments with lots of opportunity while still forcing them to experience every bit of it to the fullest.
^^ I have to say, having read the above statement, that I get the impression CD are more concerned that we won't get to see all of their pretty graphics if we are allowed to have more of a free rein... which is a real shame.
I can see where they are coming from - they have put a great deal of time and effort into creating a beautiful world for Lara to play in - but at some point, you have to let go and allow the player to take control once again... still, I will continue to hope that Underworld is going to be the game where they take the training wheels off, simply because I don't think many people will tolerate another hand-holding game in terms of exploration - especially since it is the one thing that nearly everyone seems to want back in a TR game.
shadow_boy
05-01-08, 21:39
Free-roaming = exploring
That's what free-roaming is and that's what the classic TRs were about. The levels were mini-sandbox environments that allowed you to explore freely and choose your own path (out of the available paths). I want this back in TR:U....badly. :(
Just as simple as this Free-roaming is not exploring because you can do the same in a multipath environment which is what we have always had in every tomb raider in a bigger or shorters scale that is.
Free roaming is when you have a huge space where all your objectives are developed in, if you have to do several things all of it is done in the same huge space and you can go wherever you want of the place (that's GTA).
In the case of tomb raider games or any other multipath or non-linear games you have multiple paths, multiple locations and really big spaces but all of it is confined into a "sandbox" as someone said, Just imagine St. Francis Folley it was NOT free roaming, why? because you could explore everywhere you wanted but you where limited to get on topo of things in specific ways, or to get to THE SAME location thru different paths but in the end you get to the same place and you have to do the same and move to the next stage thru the same place. That's not what happens with free-roaming games.
As everyone is saying tomb raider has never been a free-roaming game. What CD is offering for TRU is even more paths as in TRL or TRA.
If you still want to think that free-roaming is like earlier tomb raider games then fine the new game will be free-roaming in that perspective.
but for us who can tell the difference between a game such as GTA which is free-roaming and tomb raider which is a multi-path game, then TRU will be a multi-path game with even more paths to explore and get lost in.
its important for any adventure / action adventure these days to give the player a large environment to wonder back and forth as they choose.
if i want to walk back to where i was 3 or 4 hours ago, i should be able to do it. obvious really?
Maybe they should so an open level with weather and stuff like "Alan Wake"....but,who knows something about this game im sure that thinks like me...(game without graphics comparation :o )
As everyone is saying tomb raider has never been a free-roaming game. What CD is offering for TRU is even more paths as in TRL or TRA.
If you still want to think that free-roaming is like earlier tomb raider games then fine the new game will be free-roaming in that perspective.
but for us who can tell the difference between a game such as GTA which is free-roaming and tomb raider which is a multi-path game, then TRU will be a multi-path game with even more paths to explore and get lost in.I must admit this is how I'm understanding it too. When they say free roaming I'm interpreting as meaning games like GTA where the entire game is there in one massive free-roaming world, that you tackle as and when you like.
Tomb Raider has always been level based and I like it this way, provided the levels are large enough and complicated enough. A gradual build-up of gameplay designed to support a linear and directed story suits TR best, I think.
A good amount of free-roaming within each level should exist though. Apart from certain key "one-way" only paths, most old-style TR levels allowed you to return to nearly every single part of a level.
Maybe I'm wrong but... I'm interpreting the developers comments as meaning - there'll be multiple path options, more ability to try different routes (dead ends even) and less having to stick to "The Path". But that there will still be some linearity... Which there always was in TR games anyway.
As long as there is always the option of being able to go the wrong way, I'll be happy. :)
cardmonster
06-01-08, 13:10
^^ I have to say, having read the above statement, that I get the impression CD are more concerned that we won't get to see all of their pretty graphics if we are allowed to have more of a free rein... which is a real shame.
I can see where they are coming from - they have put a great deal of time and effort into creating a beautiful world for Lara to play in - but at some point, you have to let go and allow the player to take control once again... still, I will continue to hope that Underworld is going to be the game where they take the training wheels off, simply because I don't think many people will tolerate another hand-holding game in terms of exploration - especially since it is the one thing that nearly everyone seems to want back in a TR game.
I think this is a gross exaggeration. You've gone off on a tangent regarding a single quote, which simply suggests that the player won't be handed an open world to perform missions and objectives at will.
Tomb Raider has always been about making progress, unlocking rooms and passages to solve puzzles to keep moving forward. Though occasionally deceptively non-linear, levels have always contained a single set of objectives to meet to unlock an additional environment. Tomb Raider 2 and particularly 3 refined this concept, handing the player larger environments with multiple routes to explore to find multiple required "keys", but the games consistently demanded that you place them in a single "lock". Tomb Raider: Underworld will be no different.
Tomb Raider's never been a free roaming game, and I don't want it to be. With a set of goals such as 'find this switch/pressure pad, get past these puzzles and find that artifact (and don't forget to kill the boss while you're at it)... free roaming would be way too huge and a bit ridiculous. Imagine wandering off into unlimited South American jungle - you'd get disoriented, lost, and bored very quickly, and you'd load your game back to whichever temple ruins in minutes.
Tomb Raider was and should be a multipath game - a game where, yes, the player controls where Lara goes, but not totally without some linear guidance from the environment around her.
As long as there is always the option of being able to go the wrong way, I'll be happy. :)
You said it :tmb:
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