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rowanlim
27-01-08, 15:23
Hey folks:

He died at 1310 (0610 GMT) after slipping into a coma, doctors said.

During his 32-years in power, the economy thrived, but thousands were killed in the provinces of Papua and Aceh and in East Timor invaded in 1975.

Suharto left office in 1998 amid mass protests over corruption and the human rights abuses, but did not stand trial on health grounds.

No-one has been punished for the killings.

Father of development?

"Indonesia's second President Haji Muhammad Suharto has passed away at about 1310," senior police officer Major Dicky Sondani told reporters at the Pertamina Hospital in Jakarta.

All six of his children were at the hospital.

Soldiers and police had to force back crowds of Suharto supporters to allow the ambulance with his body to leave the hospital on his way to his home in central Jakarta, before it is taken to Solo in central Java for the funeral.

The government has announced a week of national mourning.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono led a televised prayer.

"I invite all the people of Indonesia to pray that may the deceased's good deeds and dedication to the nation be accepted by Allah the almighty," he said.

"Mr Suharto has done a great service to the nation."

Suharto was rushed to hospital on 4 January suffering from various heart, lung and kidney problems.

He had been living quietly in Jakarta since being overthrown during the 1997-1998 Asian financial crisis. He had been in and out of the hospital several times.
Although he was accused of embezzling huge sums from state funds during his three decades in power, his lawyers always successfully pleaded that his failing health meant he should not stand trial.

Suharto's rule was marked by rapid economic growth and political stability. Some Indonesians fondly call him the "father of development".

But many often found it difficult to pin down what they felt about the man who had towered over their lives for so long, says the BBC's Jonathan Head.

They certainly feared him, our correspondent says.

After all, the bloodshed which accompanied his rise to power, after a mysterious coup attempt in 1965 which he blamed on Indonesia's then-powerful Communist Party, was on a scale matched only in Cambodia in this region, he says.

Within the space of a few months at least half a million people were slaughtered in anti-communist pogroms that, at the very least, Suharto and the military tacitly encouraged says our correspondent.

The trauma of that period scars Indonesia to this day, and was a key tool in Suharto's armoury.

After his death was announced, Suharto's eldest daughter, Siti Hariyanti Rukmana, told reporters: "We ask that if he had any faults, please forgive them... may he be absolved of all his mistakes."

link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7211565.stm

I'm not sure, but many people said he was the icon of corruption. I also wondered why the doctors worked so hard to save a man who was obviously due to pass on.

Gregori
28-01-08, 00:55
I've a feeling he won't be missed by many.

Shark_Blade
28-01-08, 01:06
I heard this on the news last night. During his illness, many ordinary Indonesians debate his legacy and question whether he should be pardoned or whether legal proceedings against him for graft should continue.

Suharto lawyer said that the civil suit must be suspended because Suharto has passed away and the prosecutor has to deal with the family to sort it out.


rowanlim: I don't think doctors should let the patient die just like that even though there seems to be no hope at all. Anyway, it's the doctors job to cure the ill no matter who their patients are whether they are ordinary people, criminals or dying people.

rowanlim
28-01-08, 04:39
I heard this on the news last night. During his illness, many ordinary Indonesians debate his legacy and question whether he should be pardoned or whether legal proceedings against him for graft should continue.

Suharto lawyer said that the civil suit must be suspended because Suharto has passed away and the prosecutor has to deal with the family to sort it out.


rowanlim: I don't think doctors should let the patient die just like that even though there seems to be no hope at all. Anyway, it's the doctors job to cure the ill no matter who their patients are whether they are ordinary people, criminals or dying people.

It's a sensitive issue, right? I mean...I can't comment much because I don't know what he really did during his rule...

Plus I don't mean that they should give up on him, no bias there...I mean that I was wondering that for myself, personally, if I feel that it's time to go, then it's time...just a matter of opinion. If there was a chance that he could be rescued, then go for it, but from the reports on his medical condition before his death, I felt that they knew they couldn't have saved him.

ivannnnn
28-01-08, 07:33
I'm not sure, but many people said he was the icon of corruption. I also wondered why the doctors worked so hard to save a man who was obviously due to pass on.

He had talismans or magical things in his body plus he's not only icon of helper but also a cursed corruptor in Indonesia. As a citizen, we raise flag in half as a sign of mourning. :)

Shark_Blade
28-01-08, 07:51
It's a sensitive issue, right? I mean...I can't comment much because I don't know what he really did during his rule...

Plus I don't mean that they should give up on him, no bias there...I mean that I was wondering that for myself, personally, if I feel that it's time to go, then it's time...just a matter of opinion. If there was a chance that he could be rescued, then go for it, but from the reports on his medical condition before his death, I felt that they knew they couldn't have saved him.

I think Suharto's family tried to save him to show their loyalty and support and stick with him to the end eventhough they knew they couldn't save him just like you said.

As a citizen, we raise flag in half as a sign of mourning.
-> Our condolenses to you and your country ivannnnn. :)

rowanlim
28-01-08, 08:41
He had talismans or magical things in his body plus he's not only icon of helper but also a cursed corruptor in Indonesia. As a citizen, we raise flag in half as a sign of mourning. :)

Ivannnnn, can you tell us who was Suharto? I mean we all knew he was the former president...I heard he was involved in corruption...but of what sort? Can you explain? :)

Gregori
28-01-08, 09:14
Ivannnnn, can you tell us who was Suharto? I mean we all knew he was the former president...I heard he was involved in corruption...but of what sort? Can you explain? :)

He killed lots and lots of people...

kryptonite23
28-01-08, 10:45
Heard the news....and no comment about it :(

rowanlim
28-01-08, 15:11
He killed lots and lots of people...

What? How? :eek:

I honestly don't know :/

Tthe Spirit
28-01-08, 15:17
He killed lots and lots of people...

Wow... do all rulers do this?
It runs in their blood...

Gregori
29-01-08, 02:17
Wow... do all rulers do this?
It runs in their blood...

Not all rulers do it, but authoritarian millitary states and brutal dictators do it.

rowanlim
29-01-08, 02:29
I wonder: I sound dumb yeh, but how did he kill so many people? I never heard of him as a murderer or something :l

DREWY
29-01-08, 02:36
Over his rule apparently over 200,000 died, but it was his skimming off the economy (approx $35 Billion!) that more made the news.

Shark_Blade
29-01-08, 02:37
Based from my findings, it was discussed among Indonesians that Suharto did sacrificed many people.

"Suharto has gotten away with murder - another dictator who's lived out his life in luxury and escaped justice," Brad Adams, Asia director of the New York-based monitor Human Rights Watch (HRW), said in a statement.

The Human Rights group accused Suharto's regime of torture, massacres of minorities and alleged communists, and of war crimes in provinces including former Indonesian-ruled East Timor, which won independence in 1999 after violent upheaval.

On the good side he did helped strengthen the ties/bond between Indonesia and Malaysia in enhancing bilateral relations, as Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said, and it had benefitted both countries immensely.

rowanlim
29-01-08, 02:50
Based from my findings, it was discussed among Indonesians that Suharto did sacrificed many people. But this issue wasn't raised in any newspaper and on the net so I can't confirm this just based from people's blogs and forums discussions.

"Suharto has gotten away with murder - another dictator who's lived out his life in luxury and escaped justice," Brad Adams, Asia director of the New York-based monitor Human Rights Watch (HRW), said in a statement.

The group accused Suharto's regime of torture, massacres of minorities and alleged communists, and of war crimes in provinces including former Indonesian-ruled East Timor, which won independence in 1999 after violent upheaval.

On the good side he did helped strengthen the ties/bond between Indonesia and Malaysia in enhancing bilateral relations, as Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said, and it had benefitted both countries immensely.


I heard that he was pretty racist, no? The Chinese there couldn't celebrate their festivals etc until he stepped down. :(

Yep the corruption issue was the biggest, if not the worst, of his flaws...Some people stil worship the tyrant, I suppose

DREWY
29-01-08, 02:56
While not always the most accurate of resources, Wikipedia has some useful info HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto)

Shark_Blade
29-01-08, 03:05
I heard that he was pretty racist, no? The Chinese there couldn't celebrate their festivals etc until he stepped down.:(^That's awful if that was true. If I was them, I'll be disheartened with Suharto aswell.

@Drewy: Just found out he was "accused of embezzling US$571 million of government donations to one of a number of foundations under his control and then using the money to finance family investments."

According to Transparency International, Suharto embezzled more money than any other world leader in history with the estimated US $15–35 billion embezzlement during his 32 years rule.

:eek:

rowanlim
29-01-08, 03:12
^That's awful if that was true. If I was them, I'll be disheartened with Suharto aswell.

@Drewy: Just found out he was "accused of embezzling US$571 million of government donations to one of a number of foundations under his control and then using the money to finance family investments."

According to Transparency International, Suharto embezzled more money than any other world leader in history with the estimated US $1535 billion embezzlement during his 32 years rule.

:eek:

He embezzled more than that Philippines President with the shoe-addict wife?? :eek:

I heard that during his rule, when the Chinese faced discriminations, there were many attacks on Chinese people by the local Indonesians...horrible rape & murder cases. It was a horrible thing to hear about. All the females in the family, young and old, were tortured, raped, beaten, some raped in front of their male family members. I know he didn't directly ordered these crimes, but during his rule, the racism was high & these attacks were a culmination of the racist sentiments