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tlr online
05-02-08, 11:34
Today is Super Tuesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday) for America. Who do you think will tap majority backing for Presidential candidate?

touchthesky
05-02-08, 11:36
Hilary! I really hope she gets it.

kryptonite23
05-02-08, 11:38
Clinton!! ;)

mizuno_suisei
05-02-08, 11:48
Even though I'm not american and no nothing about American Politics, I voted Hillary because of that picture of her holding the vacuum with the tag line "Time to clean up the white-house" or something. That picture is bomb! Go Hillary!

DickDan
05-02-08, 11:56
No comment...U'd think i'm crazu or something If I told you waht I really think

Cochrane
05-02-08, 11:57
Guess: No idea, it's too close to call. Both have a lot of support.
Hope: Obama, because I don't like Hilary's stand on video games.

tranniversary119
05-02-08, 12:25
Clinton :tmb:

Andariel
05-02-08, 12:25
Hillary Clinton. I have confidence in her to bring the most amount of positive change in the United States with her 30+ years of experience.

btw tlr, you spelled Hillaryís first name wrong. :rolleyes:

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 12:28
Hillary Clinton. I have confidence in her to bring the most amount of positive change in the United States with her 30+ years of experience.

btw tlr, you spelled Hillaryís first name wrong. :rolleyes:

Not trying to be sarcastic or smarmy here, but 30 years of experience doing what, exactly?

->If I must choose between the lesser of two 'evils', go Obama!!

DREWY
05-02-08, 12:28
Maybe after the dust settles we may now see Chuck Norris in the white house!
Good Grief. The US, seen 'thru the eyes of a ranger!'

*little known fact*
Pluto is actually an orbiting group of British soldiers from the American Revolution who entered space after the Chuck gave them a roundhouse kick to the face.


BTW I picked Obama. Not that I really care, but he may see things differently than the others.

Capt. Murphy
05-02-08, 12:29
Today is Super Tuesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday) for America. Who do you think will tap majority backing for Presidential candidate among Democrats/Liberals/Pinko-Commies?
There. Fixed it. :wve:

Andariel
05-02-08, 12:31
@Quasimodo, making change in the US.

tlr online
05-02-08, 12:32
Hillary Clinton. I have confidence in her to bring the most amount of positive change in the United States with her 30+ years of experience.

btw tlr, you spelled Hillaryís first name wrong. :rolleyes:

Duly noted and corrected. Thanks. :)

JANKERSON
05-02-08, 12:34
None of the above.....

tlr online
05-02-08, 12:34
My vote would go to Hillary, because of Bill's legacy. He did good for America IMO, reduced national deficit, for the most part peaceful and prosperous, I'm hoping Hillary will continue in much the same fashion. Seems kind of amusing, a Clinton cleared up after Bush Senior's mess, and another Clinton could do the same again. ;)

JANKERSON
05-02-08, 12:37
My vote would go to Hillary, because of Bill's legacy. He did good for America IMO, reduced national deficit, for the most part peaceful and prosperous, I'm hoping Hillary will continue in much the same fashion. Seems kind of amusing, a Clinton cleared up after Bush Senior's mess, and another Clinton could do the same again. ;)

He cut the deficit by chopping the Military down to almost nothing.

In other words he didn't do anything really.

Conway
05-02-08, 12:39
I'm not really sure...so I didn't vote, but I find this rather funny.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/681/r181019547ic3.jpg

:p

myrmaad
05-02-08, 12:50
Husband's definitely for Obama.

I'm still undecided. I don't think I'll decide for sure until I'm in the booth.

I've never gone to the polls before without my mind made up. This is new ground.

raiderfun
05-02-08, 12:51
It's not easy at all, the choice is very difficult. I'm actually for the two sides, Clinton seems a good woman because she's like the sequel of her husband's management , she is also going to be the first woman as president for the USA, regarding Obama , seems like he has a good personality; he'll be the first black to be president of the USA, apparently, his father was muslim, this could be one of the reasons to stop the war in Iraq. :)

LOL : A Blond Vs. A Black :D

I voted, but I won't say for whom. The most essential thing for me is Bush's banishement :)

dinahcat
05-02-08, 12:56
neither...I'm not voting Democrat (I'm sure you hate me now!)

But of the two, Obama scared me less.

MrBear
05-02-08, 13:04
Oh, I thought it said which one I hope.. Well, I hope (and voted) for Barack Obama, but I think Hillary will pull it off (sadly... - in my opinion!!) :wve: but I'm not American, so I'm not gonna have a say on this subject, I'm afraid...

Rexie
05-02-08, 13:24
not that I actually care,but I voited for Hillary Clinton..on TRF not in real life...

only Croft
05-02-08, 13:31
Hillary Clinton all the way :tmb:

petujaymz
05-02-08, 13:46
I voted Hillary Clinton.

:wve:

b0bb13
05-02-08, 13:50
Hillary Clinton FTW!:D
Never heard of Barack Obama before TBH:p

rowanlim
05-02-08, 13:59
Hillary Clinton...coz me pa says so :D

VonCroy360
05-02-08, 14:20
Hopefully it's Clinton.

Not that I can actually vote or anything. :o :)

Earthcane
05-02-08, 14:25
Don't give a crap :wve:

Jacen
05-02-08, 14:33
I don't know... But then again I'm no american.
As long a a democrat wins it'll be ok I think...

And yes I know they're both democrats...

Eddie Haskell
05-02-08, 14:36
Got to go with Mr. Obama. He is not the leader in accepting lobbyist dollars (like Mrs. Clinton). I have met him a few times and he is a sincere, serious, intelligent, knowledgeable, compassionate and strong individual. He is not a divisive figure and can help to improve our position in the world, and go a long way to uniting our country in a way that Hillary can never do.

He deserves your vote. He has mine.

Bown
05-02-08, 14:47
http://**********************************/images/4/43/BrosbeforeHoes.png

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 15:10
@Quasimodo, making change in the US.

I'm sorry, but that's not a satisfactory answer. How specifically has Hillary Clinton brought about change? What specific legislature has Hillary voted for/against that benifited the nation as a whole? Where is the proof and statistics to back that up, if any?

I cannot fathom why anyone would support Mrs. Clinton, considering her reputation as a divider and an overly ambitious go-getter. She has been endorsed by some shady people, including a preacher who said something to the effect of "go to hell white man!" during a sermon. Mr. Clinton himself doesn't exactly have a shining reputation, either.

Obama should be applauded for his restraint; there's more dirt on the Clintons he could dish up than the Clintons could ever find on him, yet he has passed over many opportunities to use that to his advantage.

Please prove me wrong. Prove to me that Hillary has the American people's interests at heart, and isn't solely driven by her own ambitions for power. I'm not buying this "30 years of experience" stuff. As far as I know she's only been a Senator for 8 years. What did she do during those other 22 Years? Being married to a president doesn't make one anymore worthy of the office than being married to a surgeon gives one the merits to perform open heart surgery.

Though I consider myself a conservative, the U.S. may well have a Democrat in the office after this election. I'd just like to know why Hillary would be the better one for the job.

daventry
05-02-08, 15:16
Who is Obamah, is he born in America.

He sounds like Osama Bin Ladin in a weird way like their Cousins or something.

Didint a Philosopher called Nostradamus said that in the Future a great Empire will fall aka (America)

Their were allot of Prophecies told that probably did came true including the fall of the Twin Towers.

I dont know, i could be way off here.

FourBalls
05-02-08, 15:17
Hillary Clinton FTW, although I don't really care much :p

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 15:19
Who is Obamah, is he born in America.

He sounds like Osama Bin Ladin in a weird way like their Cousins or something.

Didint a Philosopher called Nostradamus said that in the Future a great Empire will fall aka (America)

Their were allot of Prophecies told that probably did came true including the fall of the Twin Towers.

I dont know, i could be way off here.

Obama isn't Muslim, and I don't hold much store by Nostradamus' prophecies. Prophecies tend to be so vague that a person could twist them to say anything they want. How many times have people predicted the end of the world, only to be proven wrong time and time again? No man knoweth the hour.

Eddie Haskell
05-02-08, 15:19
Who is Obamah, is he born in America.

He sounds like Osama Bin Ladin in a weird way like their Cousins or something.

Didint a Philosopher called Nostradamus said that in the Future a great Empire will fall aka (America)

Their were allot of Prophecies told that probably did came true including the fall of the Twin Towers.

I dont know, i could be way off here.

Obama is NOT a Muslim. And do you think that a relative of Osama Bin Laden would even be on a ballot in the US?

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 15:26
I'm for Obama, but as I mentioned in another thread, Clinton would be fine, too. He's still relatively young, so even if he doesn't win, I'm pretty sure he'll make it in the near future. His time will come, even if it shouldn't happen in 2008.

daventry
05-02-08, 15:32
So do they make the final announcement today, when will one of them become the next President of America.

Jack Croft
05-02-08, 15:33
Obama i think but i dont mind. :)

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 15:36
@ daventry: No, no. This is just about who'll become the candidate of the Democrats and Republicans, respectively, and even that isn't decided today. A whole lot of states vote today, though, so whoever wins will have made a huge step towards the White House.

Mad Tony
05-02-08, 15:39
Why isn't there a poll for the republican candidates?

Anyways, if I really had to choose the less of the two evils, I'd say Obama.
But, being a Republican myself (or supporting them at least), I'd rather none of the above get the presidency.

daventry
05-02-08, 15:40
So when is the voting for the Next President and who is in Line. :confused:

Mad Tony
05-02-08, 15:41
So when is the voting for the Next President and who is in Line. :confused:November of this year I believe. Don't quote me on that though.

petujaymz
05-02-08, 15:43
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/2/5/f_supersmashbm_349f3a4.jpg

When will the results be in?

I live in the UK to be honest.

Am I gonna have to stay up till four in the mornin'?

:wve:

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 15:44
Today is Super Tuesday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday) for America. Who do you think will tap majority backing for Presidential candidate among Democrats/Liberals/Pinko-Commies?
There. Fixed it. :wve:
That attitude is the exact reason why I think the world desperately needs a change.

myrmaad
05-02-08, 15:51
http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

Cochrane
05-02-08, 16:14
Who is Obamah, is he born in America.

He sounds like Osama Bin Ladin in a weird way like their Cousins or something.

Didint a Philosopher called Nostradamus said that in the Future a great Empire will fall aka (America)

Their were allot of Prophecies told that probably did came true including the fall of the Twin Towers.

I dont know, i could be way off here.

As a general rule: Whenever Nostradamus is quoted, whoever does so is way off.

Andariel
05-02-08, 16:14
I have little to no interest in replying to peopleís ignorance, immaturity, or debating my choice but Iíll be glad to see a democrat President e.g. Clinton or Obama.

Nannonxyay
05-02-08, 16:17
Obama will be the best thing to happen to America in a long time. Hilary just doesn't seem powerful enough.

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 16:29
I have little to no interest in replying to people’s ignorance, immaturity, or debating my choice but I’ll be glad to see a democrat President e.g. Clinton or Obama.

You mean you can't say what makes Hillary such a great candidate? Had I said something similarly vague about one of the Republican candidates, you can bet your sweet Aspercreme there'd be at least a handful of people asking me to back up my statement with some facts.

I am simply genuinely curious to know why someone might support Hillary Clinton.

Furthermore, why do you think a Democrat would make a better president?

Andariel
05-02-08, 16:37
Iíve said what makes her great and itís her record. I donít have the want or need to take the time to prove my position time and time again. Thatís why Iím not a politician.

SamReeves
05-02-08, 16:41
I'm not really sure...so I didn't vote, but I find this rather funny.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/681/r181019547ic3.jpg

:p

:vlol: I'll share that one with my friends at work!

For me today, Huckabee or none of the above. :wve:

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 16:43
Can anyone who chose Hillary on this poll explain to me why Hillary is the best choice?

Cochrane
05-02-08, 16:44
Can anyone who chose Hillary on this poll explain to me why Hillary is the best choice?

Not if you dismiss every reason as invalid (BTW, I chose Obama, so don't ask me for an explanation).

rickybazire
05-02-08, 16:50
thing is...they would both be the first of something if they won...hilary would be the first women president, obama would be the first black president...difficult to decide who you think is gonna win

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 16:52
Not if you dismiss every reason as invalid (BTW, I chose Obama, so don't ask me for an explanation).

Heaven forbid this thread should contain some frank discussion of the candidates. While it's a given I won't be voting democrat this year, I'd still like to know why Hillary would be the better pick over Obama. If someone shies away from defending their candidate of choice on an online forum, what does that say about their confidence for that candidate at the polls?

in these arms
05-02-08, 16:53
From what I've listened to I'm finding Obama sounds good.

Andariel
05-02-08, 16:59
http://i32.************/5l5v8g.jpg

Legends
05-02-08, 17:00
Hillary Clinton.

Andariel
05-02-08, 17:00
Thought that was a funny pic. :p

myrmaad
05-02-08, 17:08
Heaven forbid this thread should contain some frank discussion of the candidates. While it's a given I won't be voting democrat this year, I'd still like to know why Hillary would be the better pick over Obama. If someone shies away from defending their candidate of choice on an online forum, what does that say about their confidence for that candidate at the polls?

What it actually says, is that I don't care to debate it with you. No offense, really, but your credentials seem to be that you're from Texas, and a supporter of George W. Bush. I have very little faith in the fact that we could meet on common ground. And I certainly feel entitled to my educated opinion.

Inkheart
05-02-08, 17:12
I voted Obama, he just strikes me as . . . meh, I just trust him more I guess. I live in England though, I don't really care. As long as Bush goes soon.

Lew
05-02-08, 17:13
They both have good points, however Hillary Clinton has some strong points such as having her husband being President.

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 17:24
What it actually says, is that I don't care to debate it with you. No offense, really, but your credentials seem to be that you're from Texas, and a supporter of George W. Bush. I have very little faith in the fact that we could meet on common ground. And I certainly feel entitled to my educated opinion.

I beg to differ. From Texas? Yes. A supporter of George W. Bush? Not on everything. But let's not get off track here.

What's so hard about explaining why you favor one candidate over the other? Believe it or not, my intent isn't to knock down Hillary or Obama solely because they are democrats; rather, I'd like to know why those who voted* for Obama support him, and why those who voted* for Hillary support her. Some might interpret that as bullying, but personally I find it disconcerting that Hillary supporters seem so hesistant to...well, support her.

*voted for in this poll

nick-xx
05-02-08, 17:34
Obama

myrmaad
05-02-08, 17:36
I have not yet voted. I won't until my husband gets home from work, when we will go together to the polls before going out to celebrate my birthday. At the moment I'm still making up my mind.

myrmaad
05-02-08, 17:55
Actually I have just decided: I will vote for Hilary.

For me the Pros outweigh the Cons:
I want REAL universal healthcare.
I want to keep my guns.
I want to rollback and eliminate the Bush tax cuts that only benefited the wealthiest Americans.
I think her economic stimulus plan is a good one, especially because she has the experience of Bill's plan that was, in my view, extremely successful.
I think her plan to get out of Iraq is as good as any I've seen.
She has experience dealing with scandalmongers.The Cons:
She's too conservative for my taste.
She's a target for scandalmongers, (though I believe they'll go after Obama the same way they did Clinton).
I'd love to see a brother in the white house.I would love to see a brother in the white house. I'm not writing Obama off, he has time to get more experience and for me to get to know him better.

I've ALWAYS liked Hilary. I respect a woman who stands by her man through thick and thin. You may not like or agree with some of my reasons but you asked for them. And I've given them. Respect my right to vote as I please. You know it's supposed to be a private decision. That's why there's no record of them. Certainly the internet is not a private place and we're not as anonymous as you might think.

Could a mod fix this double post, please?

Cochrane
05-02-08, 18:16
I beg to differ. From Texas? Yes. A supporter of George W. Bush? Not on everything. But let's not get off track here.

What's so hard about explaining why you favor one candidate over the other? Believe it or not, my intent isn't to knock down Hillary or Obama solely because they are democrats; rather, I'd like to know why those who voted* for Obama support him, and why those who voted* for Hillary support her. Some might interpret that as bullying, but personally I find it disconcerting that Hillary supporters seem so hesistant to...well, support her.

*voted for in this poll

There's a difference between explaining and pointlessly arguing. I think myrmaad's post sums it up quite nicely, but other people have given their reasons before. You just always chose to dismiss them because they were too vague for you.

Jensie17
05-02-08, 18:21
Clinton

USP
05-02-08, 19:29
"Which Menendez brother do you want to live with?"

Kiwi..
05-02-08, 19:31
Obama. I think he has a new way of seing things... :o

myrmaad
05-02-08, 19:32
"Which Menendez brother do you want to live with?"
I've been living with one of them for the past 7 years, thanks.

USP
05-02-08, 19:33
I like that one

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 19:37
I beg to differ. From Texas? Yes. A supporter of George W. Bush? Not on everything. But let's not get off track here.

What's so hard about explaining why you favor one candidate over the other? Believe it or not, my intent isn't to knock down Hillary or Obama solely because they are democrats; rather, I'd like to know why those who voted* for Obama support him, and why those who voted* for Hillary support her. Some might interpret that as bullying, but personally I find it disconcerting that Hillary supporters seem so hesistant to...well, support her.

*voted for in this poll
Let it go already. This thread is simply about who people think will/should win today, not why they favor them. Obviously, everybody's free to explain why, and you're free to ask them, but just repeating the same question over and over again is spam (and yes, to be honest, it's annoying, too). If people want to tell you their reasons, great, if they don't, that's okay, too.

Personally, I support Obama and Clinton for a variety of reasons. Both are moderately liberal (which is pretty relative, as a link provided by Myrmaad pointed out - for example, extreme conservatives calling McCain a 'liberal' is ridiculous to a true liberal like me), both want to end the unnecessary and illegal war in Iraq, both oppose tax cuts that only the richest people profit from, both are considerably younger than McCain, both seem to care about more people than just their party comrades, both have a relatively polite and respectful way of dealing with political opponents. Obama is black, Clinton is a woman. A president from either of those groups is way overdue. There, now you know my reasons. To be honest, I don't care if they're good enough for you.

Sir Croft
05-02-08, 19:40
I'm not an American, but if I were one I'd vote for Clinton :)

Anubis_AF
05-02-08, 19:43
Hillary!

USP
05-02-08, 19:48
Just to clear up what looks like some confusion in this thread: Clinton has an amazing 0% rating by the Gun Owners of America. http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/clinton.htm

Forwen
05-02-08, 19:52
Obama is black

As someone raised in an all-white country I always fail miserably when I try to understand the Western understanding of "black". Obama isn't black to me, period. Obviously he's of mixed background. Why is that you are classified as white only if you have unmistakably white parents, while to become black in social terms it's enough to have a slightest hint of a black ancestor? That just defies any logic from an outsider's point of view. Why is it so important to Westerners (especially the US) to preserve the strong perception of black people being black first and foremost? Or is it that leftists need their victims? After all, if the left wing's philosophy is to be reversed, without anybody in need there'd be no reason for its existence.

Ward Dragon
05-02-08, 19:53
I think Obama will win the Democratic Primary. He seems much more honest and likable than Clinton.

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 19:55
As someone raised in an all-white country I always fail miserably when I try to understand the Western understanding of "black". Obama isn't black to me, period. Obviously he's of mixed background. Why is that you are classified as white only if you have unmistakably white parents, while to become black in social terms it's enough to have a slightest hint of a black ancestor? That just defies any logic from an outsider's point of view. Why is it so important to Westerners (especially the US) to preserve the strong perception of black people being black first and foremost? Or is it that leftists need their victims? After all, if the left wing's philosophy is to be reversed, without anybody in need there'd be no reason for its existence.
Don't tell me, I don't care about the color of people's skins. I do think it's an important issue as long as there are people who care out there, though. Racism is still very much an issue.

Eddie Haskell
05-02-08, 19:57
Huckabee (http://www.cnn.com/) wins in West Virginia, all 18 delegates.

USP
05-02-08, 19:59
Yes.
Brokered convention all the way baby

Cochrane
05-02-08, 19:59
As someone raised in an all-white country I always fail miserably when I try to understand the Western understanding of "black". Obama isn't black to me, period. Obviously he's of mixed background. Why is that you are classified as white only if you have unmistakably white parents, while to become black in social terms it's enough to have a slightest hint of a black ancestor? That just defies any logic from an outsider's point of view. Why is it so important to Westerners (especially the US) to preserve the strong perception of black people being black first and foremost? Or is it that leftists need their victims? After all, if the left wing's philosophy is to be reversed, without anybody in need there'd be no reason for its existence.

In short: The definitions of black and white are done by the people who care about the distinction in the first place, i.e. racists.

Just to clear up what looks like some confusion in this thread: Clinton has an amazing 0% rating by the Gun Owners of America. http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/clinton.htm

One more reason to vote for her, I'd say.

Forwen
05-02-08, 20:00
Don't tell me, I don't care about the color of people's skins. I do think it's an important issue as long as there are people who care out there, though. Racism is still very much an issue.

But my point is, what racism? He isn't black! I'm asking where this perception of mixed people comes from. If he's mixed, then he could just as well be white... And yet anybody with mixed background is automatically black. There's no way racism is going to disappear if public perception still allows such artificial classification.

In short: The definitions of black and white are done by the people who care about the distinction in the first place, i.e. racists.

Not necessarily. Racial electoral groups can be quite potent and that's where I'd look for the main source. Pure calculation.

USP
05-02-08, 20:01
One more reason to vote for her, I'd say.
Well that may be your opinion on the issue but I was posting in reference to myrmaad who said she would let her keep her guns.

Draco
05-02-08, 20:02
I think Barack will, but I'm not voting for either of them.

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 20:05
But my point is, what racism? He isn't black! I'm asking where this perception of mixed people comes from. If he's mixed, then he could just as well be white... And yet anybody with mixed background is automatically black. There's no way racism is going to disappear if public perception still allows such artificial classification.
As long as there are people who care, that classification will remain. I'm sorry, but so far every president has been a white man. If you want that to change, you have to break the mold someday. I hope in a few years, we can toss it away altogether.

myrmaad
05-02-08, 20:06
As someone raised in an all-white country I always fail miserably when I try to understand the Western understanding of "black". Obama isn't black to me, period. Obviously he's of mixed background. Why is that you are classified as white only if you have unmistakably white parents, while to become black in social terms it's enough to have a slightest hint of a black ancestor? That just defies any logic from an outsider's point of view. Why is it so important to Westerners (especially the US) to preserve the strong perception of black people being black first and foremost? Or is it that leftists need their victims? After all, if the left wing's philosophy is to be reversed, without anybody in need there'd be no reason for its existence.

"The Leftists need their victim?" If only I was at liberty to respond the way my husband would to that suggestion!

It's not what I would characterize as "important to Westerners to preserve the perception of black people being black first and foremost".

It's because the laws in the US were written to quantify what it meant to be black during the early years of slavery, first laws were put on the books by Maryland in an effort to preserve slavery. Eventually the "drop of black blood" laws were written. I have access to the specifics but not at hand at this moments. I've attempted a concentration of Black studies during my recent college career. It's clear that Barack regards himself as a black man, and would likely perceive any attempt to remove that designation as an attempt to disregard his cultural heritage. There are great implications to growing up as a black individual in America, regardless when your African ancester arrived. My three favorite professors are African born men, and they consider themselves, separate culturally in some ways, but still black in America.

USP
05-02-08, 20:08
Just so people understand:

West Virginia's caucus eliminated Ron Paul in it's first round of voting.

As the second round begins, it looks like Romney will take the 50% required to win.

McCain's people (there weren't many of them) vote for Huck, in order to spoil a Romney win.

Dr. Paul's 10% make a deal with Huck to put him over the top and take the win, in exchange for 3 national convention delegates.

Huck takes the win in the state (muddling the field for us), and we pick up 3 national convention delegates.

Well played, Dr. Paul.

EDIT: Source: http://www.wsaz.com/political/misc/15267036.html

Forwen
05-02-08, 20:09
I hope in a few years, we can throw it away altogether.

Hopefully, because being a woman/black/gay/immigrant/disabled/red-headed/three-eyed is hardly a proof of real competence. The times when the public doesn't demand this kind of show to feel secure can't come soon enough.

trXD
05-02-08, 20:11
is it wrong that i didnt even know about this? Well im not American so its not that bad

Forwen
05-02-08, 20:13
It's because the laws in the US were written to quantify what it meant to be black during the early years of slavery, first laws were put on the books by Maryland in an effort to preserve slavery. Eventually the "drop of black blood" laws were written. I have access to the specifics but not at hand at this moments. I've attempted a concentration of Black studies during my recent college career. It's clear that Barack regards himself as a black man, and would likely perceive any attempt to remove that designation as an attempt to disregard his cultural heritage. There are great implications to growing up as a black individual in America, regardless when your African ancester arrived. My three favorite professors are African born men, and they consider themselves, separate culturally in some ways, but still black in America.

So you're saying there is still LEGAL separation of black and white in the US? That's news to me. Still, I'm not the one with vast knowledge on this country.

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 20:13
Hopefully, because being a woman/black/gay/immigrant/disabled/red-headed/three-eyed is hardly a proof of real competence. The times when the public doesn't demand this kind of show to feel secure can't come soon enough.
Neither can the passing of the time when either of those attributes is reason enough to not elect somebody.

An openly gay president? No chance in hell, even if he/she were the most competent person that ever lived.

findme
05-02-08, 20:16
Hilary! I wanna see how differently a female handles it. =]

myrmaad
05-02-08, 20:24
So you're saying there is still LEGAL separation of black and white in the US? That's news to me. Still, I'm not the one with vast knowledge on this country.

It takes a long time to change attitudes. Attitudes, as we learn in a study social psychology, do not respond to logic. Instead the individual will twist logic to support his/her attitude. It's a human response. It's so powerful that you can clearly see it in a study of ancient religions, just look at the Mayan culture that we have been examining due to our interest in TRU.

The laws granting "equality" to blacks have been changed during my lifetime. My husband saw RIOTS erupt in his high school during the mid-seventies because they wanted to integrate the schools (see Brown v. Board of Education). We are making progress, I believe, but it will take a long time to change the attitudes to make people truly 'colorblind'. It's too early to become colorblind in my opinion, because the black experience in America still suffers from racism and discrimination.

Quasimodo
05-02-08, 20:28
Actually I have just decided: I will vote for Hilary.

For me the Pros outweigh the Cons:
I want REAL universal healthcare.
I want to keep my guns.
I want to rollback and eliminate the Bush tax cuts that only benefited the wealthiest Americans.
I think her economic stimulus plan is a good one, especially because she has the experience of Bill's plan that was, in my view, extremely successful.
I think her plan to get out of Iraq is as good as any I've seen.
She has experience dealing with scandalmongers.The Cons:
She's too conservative for my taste.
She's a target for scandalmongers, (though I believe they'll go after Obama the same way they did Clinton).
I'd love to see a brother in the white house.I would love to see a brother in the white house. I'm not writing Obama off, he has time to get more experience and for me to get to know him better.

I've ALWAYS liked Hilary. I respect a woman who stands by her man through thick and thin. You may not like or agree with some of my reasons but you asked for them. And I've given them. Respect my right to vote as I please. You know it's supposed to be a private decision. That's why there's no record of them. Certainly the internet is not a private place and we're not as anonymous as you might think.

Could a mod fix this double post, please?



Personally, I support Obama and Clinton for a variety of reasons. Both are moderately liberal (which is pretty relative, as a link provided by Myrmaad pointed out - for example, extreme conservatives calling McCain a 'liberal' is ridiculous to a true liberal like me), both want to end the unnecessary and illegal war in Iraq, both oppose tax cuts that only the richest people profit from, both are considerably younger than McCain, both seem to care about more people than just their party comrades, both have relatively polite and respectful way of dealing with political opponents. Obama is black, Clinton is a woman. A president from either of those groups is way overdue. There, now you know my reasons.

Thanks. That's all I was asking for.

I apologise for pushing the question too hard. I just wanted to know what draws people to Hillary.

Eddie Haskell
05-02-08, 20:29
It takes a long time to change attitudes. Attitudes, as we learn in a study social psychology, do not respond to logic. Instead the individual will twist logic to support his/her attitude. It's a human response. It's so powerful that you can clearly see it in a study of ancient religions, just look at the Mayan culture that we have been examining due to our interest in TRU.

The laws granting "equality" to blacks have been changed during my lifetime. My husband saw RIOTS erupt in his high school during the mid-seventies because they wanted to integrate the schools (see Brown v. Board of Education). We are making progress, I believe, but it will take a long time to change the attitudes to make people truly 'colorblind'. It's too early to become colorblind in my opinion, because the black experience in America still suffers from racism and discrimination.

Great points myrmaad.

In the modern military, race has for all intents and purposes been totally eradicated. Sure there are still a select few closet racists, but they are forced to hide them and deal with it. When your life depends on the guy next to you your hatred of him for the color of his skin goes away in a hurry. Now women in the military, that's another story...;)

myrmaad
05-02-08, 20:37
Yes, the military is excellent with regard to racial equality, I do agree from my own experience. However, as a woman, I faced a difficult and unhappy situation in the military due to sexual harassment.

Mona Sax
05-02-08, 20:41
Yes, the military is excellent with regard to racial equality, I do agree from my own experience. However, as a woman, I faced a difficult and unhappy situation in the military due to sexual harassment.
Tell me about it. It's okay now, but it took a long time.

Eddie Haskell
05-02-08, 20:46
Yes, the military is excellent with regard to racial equality, I do agree from my own experience. However, as a woman, I faced a difficult and unhappy situation in the military due to sexual harassment.

I have seen it and had to deal with it many times.

This thread is not for this discussion but suffice it to say that I don't believe that women belong in the field anywhere. At least not with the present generation of officers such as myself. I am far too protective of women and would find it most difficult to send a mother (or potential one) into harms way. Perhaps in the future men will see it differently, but most officers see it the way I do.

On topic:
Both Hillary and Obama are for equal rights, military or elsewhere.

myrmaad
05-02-08, 20:54
I know your heart's in the right place, but my heartfelt desire was to serve my country. That's all I'll say about it.

nick-xx
05-02-08, 21:06
WoW ^ it got a draw now, 50%-50% in this forum.

TombFreak
05-02-08, 21:18
Obama FTW!:D

ivannnnn
06-02-08, 07:31
Obama. There's a relationship or connection with my country once. :D

TombFreak
06-02-08, 20:44
I heard people were starting terrible rumours about Obama, in the newspaper.

Andariel
06-02-08, 20:53
It comes with the territory. Rumors are spread about everyone. Not worth getting concerned about unless they affect polls.

TombFreak
06-02-08, 21:28
They might...

tizerist
06-02-08, 22:01
thing is...they would both be the first of something if they won...hilary would be the first women president, obama would be the first black president...difficult to decide who you think is gonna win
and thats what worries me about this circus of an election, policies of rule seem to have no bearing on peoples choice, yet race and sex are good enough to have people giving their votes.

how many blacks do you think will have voted for obama simply because of his creed, or hilary because of hers?
anyone who uses that as a reason for who they vote for is a disgrace.

tizerist
06-02-08, 22:05
As long as there are people who care, that classification will remain. I'm sorry, but so far every president has been a white man. If you want that to change, you have to break the mold someday. I hope in a few years, we can toss it away altogether.
why would anybody want that to change?
surely the best candidate should get the vote?

myrmaad
06-02-08, 22:11
Maybe to break the Old Boy's Club's grip on policy.

LaraCablara
06-02-08, 22:35
Just a random thought- Obama for some reason sounds like Osama in my head :o.