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View Full Version : Illegal Immigration Debate -(different from my other immigrant topic)


marukisu
09-02-08, 02:58
I need help . The last time i started a thread on this i wanted your opinions on illegal immigration. This time i need you to list viewpoints that someone who supports illegal immigration would against people who dont support illegal immigration. Im currently preping for a debate and i need to be ready for any question that might pop up during it.

AmericanAssassin
09-02-08, 03:01
Well, if we get rid of all the illegal immigrants, small business will completely crash. I don't mind this, however, because those who break the law by hiring illegal immigrants for $2 an hour deserve to go under...

I argue with my brother on this all the time. ;)

Quasimodo
09-02-08, 03:09
Hmmm...

A person who supports illegal immigration might say...
"We are a nation of immigrants,"
"If you get rid of all illegal immigrants, you'll ruin the economy,"
"They're just looking for a better life,"
"We can't send them back, we'd be tearing apart families!"

Laws and maintaining the infrastructure be damned. heh.

nick-xx
09-02-08, 03:12
What i can say is you will lose this debate supporting illegal immigrants...

Sir Croft
09-02-08, 03:14
I'm against everything that is illegal, but AA had a point good point about the small business, etc. :)

Ward Dragon
09-02-08, 03:47
There was a member who was really intense with supporting illegal immigrants. As far as I know, he's no longer around here. I'll paraphrase his arguments since I'm not allowed to quote anything from the Mature section :) He mainly gave anecdotal stories about individual illegal immigrants who were good hard-working people living horrible lives, being taken advantage of, risking their freedom to save dying children, etc. There was a story about a meatpacking plant that was shut down due to hiring illegal immigrants and then the government officials protested because they thought the economy would tank as a result. There may be the comparison that targeting illegal immigrants is like what Hitler did to the Jews (I definitely do not agree, but you may face an attack like that in your debate). This site or something like it may be referenced: http://www.lulac.org/ Anyone who wants to get rid of illegals is naturally a bigot :rolleyes: Deporting so many illegals is just impossible and can't be done. If you had to suffer a life in Mexico, you'd try to enter the US illegally too. The children who were born here are US citizens and cannot be legally deported, so will you really deport the parents and leave the children alone with no one to care for them?

That's pretty much all I've got. I'm sure you could tell from my tone that I don't agree with any of those arguments, but at least you should get an idea of what someone might say in your debate :)

Quasimodo
09-02-08, 04:37
If this is a formal debate you can knock down most of your opponent's pro-illegal immigration arguments on the basis of logical fallacy, specifically as appeals to emotion.

TR 4 LIFE
09-02-08, 07:59
I don't mind illegal immigration at all!!!!!!!!!! the heck! I might even support it!!!! one of my parents is an illegal immigrant!!! I can't stand the government in america!!! it's so screwed up!!!! I can't wait until late this year!!! When that ***hole bush gets out of office!!! he's the stupidest president EVER!!!!!!!!! Anyways, america IS a country with mostly immigrants!!!! Except the natives, before.....they were the TRUE owners of the land!!! Illegal Immgrants either immgrate to countries because:
1) Poverty
2) War
3)something else!

Cochrane
09-02-08, 08:02
If this is a formal debate you can knock down most of your opponent's pro-illegal immigration arguments on the basis of logical fallacy, specifically as appeals to emotion.

That's exactly what happened to that one member every single time he brought it up. Hell, I even called out these fallacies, and I actually agree with his basic point of view.

Now, as for the topic: I don't think there are many people, if any, who actually support illegal immigration. What they (including me) actually want is simplified legal immigration, and better support for those illegal immigrants already in the US, including a way for them to become legal.

Quasimodo
09-02-08, 08:05
Mhmm. Send 'em all back, come up with a simplified immigration process, and let them get in line behind the people that have been waiting all along to come here the legal way.

Granting amnesty to those illegal immigrants already here just says to the world: "find a way here, by hook or crook, and you'll eventually be rewarded for being so clever at thwarting the system,"

Capt. Murphy
09-02-08, 14:17
They'll work for cheaper wages on cruddy jobs regular Americans wouldn't dream of taking. Imagine if real Americans did go and, say... Pick heads of Lettuce from the field. They'd want a fair wage for such hard labor. That -in turn- would drastically raise the price of lettuce at the super-market.

:)

Gregori
09-02-08, 15:38
http://alternet.org/workplace/76076/?page=1

Interesting article.

Cochrane
09-02-08, 15:43
They'll work for cheaper wages on cruddy jobs regular Americans wouldn't dream of taking. Imagine if real Americans did go and, say... Pick heads of Lettuce from the field. They'd want a fair wage for such hard labor. That -in turn- would drastically raise the price of lettuce at the super-market.

:)

You could argue that more americans would have jobs, so they'd be able to afford the lettuce, though. But when it comes to such economic calculations, it's always hard to really find out something, because most of it is guess work. I would assume that if all illegals were suddenly gone, then not every single one would be replaced by an american. There are many jobs that would not exist without them, plain and simple.

marukisu
12-02-08, 06:17
I don't mind illegal immigration at all!!!!!!!!!! the heck! I might even support it!!!! one of my parents is an illegal immigrant!!! I can't stand the government in america!!! it's so screwed up!!!! I can't wait until late this year!!! When that ***hole bush gets out of office!!! he's the stupidest president EVER!!!!!!!!! Anyways, america IS a country with mostly immigrants!!!! Except the natives, before.....they were the TRUE owners of the land!!! Illegal Immgrants either immgrate to countries because:
1) Poverty
2) War
3)something else!

ummm you cant stand this country and yet you stay here? the way you amke it sound s that if its just as horrible as people make mexico out to be.

myrmaad
12-02-08, 06:42
Lucky for you this is something I know something about.

Illegal immigration has been supported by the US Government since at least the 1950s, and like taxes, once the government supports something in an official capacity, it can be made legal, if you're a lawyer. The US government wouldn't knowingly do something illegal, would it?

Well the Migrant Farm Workers, United Farm Workers etc, receive government assistance. I'm a farm girl and many farmers in my area have always had migrant workers. These are not jobs americans will ever take, by the way. The farmers could never afford to pay them minimum wage *without government payroll assistance*--one way or another the government will end up paying for them.

All along the government has been complicit in allowing them to migrate through our crop system. Why do you think an ultraconservative like Bush supports a policy of reform? He's no bleeding heart. The writing's on the wall.

Cochrane
12-02-08, 09:25
Mhmm. Send 'em all back, come up with a simplified immigration process, and let them get in line behind the people that have been waiting all along to come here the legal way.

Granting amnesty to those illegal immigrants already here just says to the world: "find a way here, by hook or crook, and you'll eventually be rewarded for being so clever at thwarting the system,"

Sounds correct on first glance, but then you have to consider that the ones that are already in the states are the ones who have already worked and helped the american ecomony. Maybe not as much as they would have if they were legal, true, but they did work and added value to the businesses they worked in. Is it fair to completely ignore this?

Both points are, in my opinion, valid. That's why I think there should be a way for illegal immigrants to become legal without leaving the country, but coupled to a lot of restrictions so it'll be unlikely that people will first come to the US and try to become legal later. A possibility would be a fixed deadline. Anyone who came to the US later than this deadline (which obviously has to lie in the past) would not be eligible for the simplified legalisation process at all. Just an idea.