View Full Version : disappointed by Legend, but trying Anniversay...I think...
Davenport Scott
01-04-08, 15:06
I was an avid TR fan for years when Legend came out. I hated it. I absolutely could not get used to whatever they did to change the display, and the controls. I never even finished the first level. I was so disappointed, in fact, that I completely abandoned a game I had loved for years.
But I want to try Anniversary. I have started reading up on it, but wanted to ask this directly to those of you that have played it.
Is is the same as Legend, or is it more similar to the 'old school' TR? I liked having more control over the exploration of the environment. Puzzle > First person shooter, imho. I am going to try it, but I want to be able to gauge where my level of disappointment might be.
thanks for any opinions.
For me it TRA had the old school feeling from the TR1, but not everyone will agree with me. But try it for yourslef and see if you like it. I don't want to spoil the story for you in TRA, so please play the game and see what you think about it.
it is exactly the same as legend except for the story.
Tina Croft
01-04-08, 15:22
the controls are the same as in Legend.
if you haven't even finished the first level of Legend, it may be, that you still control Lara with arrow keys, Ctrl and Alt :confused: you should try to control her with the mouse. at first i controled her wrong, too.
but if that's not the reason, i don't know why you haven't finished it. if you know the controls, it's very easy to play.
Eddie Haskell
01-04-08, 15:36
It is better than Legend. The controls are only sound when using the mouse in my opinion. It is very difficult to screw up once you learn the controls. The game basically plays by itself, with minimal input from you. It's kind of like you generally guiding Lara rather than any real control. But as I said it is a better game than Legend in many ways.
When using the mouse to "point" Lara the game becomes really easy. The wall running can be utilized to it's full potential when you move the view back and forth with the mouse at the apex of her swing, using only the forward key (W). I found this out early on when I had problems switching between the A & D keys. As far as the controls in total, they are only real "controls" in name only. As I said, one simply guides Lara through these new games and the end results are all predetermined. Without real accuracy in the movements, and using autograb (and I recommend it since the game was designed with it, the manual grab is so inconsistent that it is almost useless) one can fly through the game like a spider monkey.
All in all the game had it's moments. I still dislike it as a Tomb Raider game intensely, but if the main character was Reginald Crosby and the title was Relic Hunter it would have been a pretty good game. But alas, poor Lara was demoted into what basically amounts to a run-of-the-mill adventure character in basically a glorified interactive dvd.
it is exactly the same as legend except for the story.
thats like saying tr2 is exactly the same as tr1:confused:
Davenport Scott
01-04-08, 15:47
I appreciate all the responses. I have always been a keyboard gamer, and it worked for me up until recently. Am I just old and set in my ways? lol
I just bought TRA, and am downloading it. While I wait, I will try Legend again. And I will try the mouse. I guess I was reverting to habit. and having a laptop with a touchpad, i haven't been using the traditional mouse for a few years. I do have a USB mouse that I can attach.
again...many thanks....and I am still open for suggestions :D
Hi, m8:
I'm sorry to tell you this but chances are you won't like Anniversary. I know exactly how you feel because I went though that myriad of sentiments too when upgrading to the next gen of Tomb Raider games.
I've finished Legend and Anniversary several times and have completed most of the Time Trials, so I'm neither an n00b nor a pro here, but have enough experience playing almost all of the T.R. games to the finish. Now, don't misunderstand me, I really enjoyed these two games but honestly can't say I was 100% satisfied with the overall results.
Yep, they wanted to give Lara quite a plethora of moves, more than what your hands are capable to do in a standard mouse/keyboard configuration. I suppose you're more used to that "Prince of Persia in 3-D" feel which was so popular in the prior games. Worst of all, there are some glitches when you climb platforms, and the flashlight and PDA are gone in Anniversary. Fortunately, those annoying geeks talking all the time through your headset are gone too.
My final advice, search the net for a demo of the game (GameSpot.com would be a nice place to start) and give it a shot, maybe you'll love it this time. If not, we'd love to read your impressions here, so don't forget to post here with them when you're done. ;)
Peace.
Eddie Haskell
01-04-08, 16:19
[_aVey;2606743']Hi, m8:
I'm sorry to tell you this but chances are you won't like Anniversary. I know exactly how you feel because I went though that myriad of sentiments too when upgrading to the next gen of Tomb Raider games.
I've finished Legend and Anniversary several times and have completed most of the Time Trials, so I'm neither an n00b nor a pro here, but have enough experience playing almost all of the T.R. games to the finish. Now, don't misunderstand me, I really enjoyed these two games but honestly can't say I was 100% satisfied with the overall results.
Yep, they wanted to give Lara quite a plethora of moves, more than what your hands are capable to do in a standard mouse/keyboard configuration. I suppose you're more used to that "Prince of Persia in 3-D" feel which was so popular in the prior games. Worst of all, there are some glitches when you climb platforms, and the flashlight and PDA are gone in Anniversary. Fortunately, those annoying geeks talking all the time through your headset are gone too.
My final advice, search the net for a demo of the game (GameSpot.com would be a nice place to start) and give it a shot, maybe you'll love it this time. If not, we'd love to read your impressions here, so don't forget to post here with them when you're done. ;)
Peace.
It's as I have said ad-nauseum, give her movements (like you and I), not gimmicky "moves". Put the focus back where it belongs...on the adventure and exploration. Make her a great athlete who can run, jump, climb, swing, swim, etc, not rely on sci-fi garbage and Hollywood gimmickry. Dump the insulting kiddie crap and go back to the basics.
Have lots of patience for TRA. The interface and controls are even more frustrating than TRL. There are some ridiculous timed traps or runs that will have you pulling your hair out. I think CD overdid it in some spots when I compare it to TR1. But the graphics are worth the price alone. It is beautiful from start to end.
It's as I have said ad-nauseum, give her movements (like you and I), not gimmicky "moves". Put the focus back where it belongs...on the adventure and exploration. Make her a great athlete who can run, jump, climb, swing, swim, etc, not rely on sci-fi garbage and Hollywood gimmickry. Dump the insulting kiddie crap and go back to the basics.
I think you're losing focus here, Scott started this thread because he wanted to read our opinions and advices to see if he was willing to give Anniversary a shot. I know how he feels because he disliked Legend so much and he's just asking for help.
As far as I know, at no moment did I insulted the game (nor you), you'd be best in stopping your flaming as the image I (we) have of you right now has changed drastically from your first post in this thread to the second. :rolleyes:
Let's just face one thing... one thing that's been discussed in several threads around here for a long time, many players just didn't dig the new Tomb Raider games, they loved the way Lara moved in the first installements of the series, and no matter how the designers improve the controls in subsequent games to almost perfection, there will be always people who just will hate changes made to something they've grown to love through the years.
You feel like a fish in the water with the new controls? Congratulations, you're in for a great gaming experience in future releases, just don't come crying when they change the controls again in ten years to something that just won't adjust to your likings.
Anyway, as I enjoyed Legend and (in a little less degree) Anniversary, I can't wait for the release of Underworld.
Peace.
Eddie Haskell
01-04-08, 17:51
[_aVey;2606902']I think you're losing focus here, Scott started this thread because he wanted to read our opinions and advices to see if he was willing to give Anniversary a shot. I know how he feels because he disliked Legend so much and he's just asking for help.
As far as I know, at no moment did I insulted the game (nor you), you'd be best in stopping your flaming as the image I (we) have of you right now has changed drastically from your first post in this thread to the second. :rolleyes:
Let's just face one thing... one thing that's been discussed in several threads around here for a long time, many players just didn't dig the new Tomb Raider games, they loved the way Lara moved in the first installements of the series, and no matter how the designers improve the controls in subsequent games to almost perfection, there will be always people who just will hate changes made to something they've grown to love through the years.
You feel like a fish in the water with the new controls? Congratulations, you're in for a great gaming experience in future releases, just don't come crying when they change the controls again in ten years to something that just won't adjust to your likings.
Anyway, as I enjoyed Legend and (in a little less degree) Anniversary, I can't wait for the release of Underworld.
Peace.
You should get out a bit more. :) And do everyone a favor and speak for yourself. I am no different in this thread than I am in any other. No different.
Losing focus? I already expressed my advice, now I am in my comment phase. Perhaps you should read more threads in here before you make yourself a moderator. That might help.
in these arms
01-04-08, 17:56
I was disappointed by both games.
You should get out a bit more. :) And do everyone a favor and speak for yourself. I am no different in this thread than I am in any other. No different.
Losing focus? I already expressed my advice, now I am in my comment phase. Perhaps you should read more threads in here before you make yourself a moderator. That might help.
I'm doing you a favor in expanding your perception of what you think it's universally the truth based only in your experiences and likings; somehow you keep telling you're no different... no different... you sound like an old Ozzy song, which doesn't improve my perception of you even a bit. :rolleyes:
Oh, thank you for that "moderator" flame, it just tells us that at least you have me in a higher regard than most of your adversaries, I do appreciate it, really.
I promise I'll go out more, just let me know when I can come by your house to give you a walk in the park, m8.
Silla!
Eddie Haskell
01-04-08, 18:15
[_aVey;2606982']I'm doing you a favor in expanding your perception of what you think it's universally the truth based only in your experiences and likings; somehow you keep telling you're no different... no different... you sound like an old Ozzy song, which doesn't improve my perception of you even a bit. :rolleyes:
Oh, thank you for that "moderator" flame, it just tells us that at least you have me in a higher regard than most of your adversaries, I do appreciate it, really.
I promise I'll go out more, just let me know when I can come by your house to give you a walk in the park, m8.
Silla!
If you're willing to push my wheelchair for me, please do. :)
I never speak for others, at any time. I only speak for myself. So where you get this "universal truth" idea from I don't know. And it's quite obvious from this post that you think that you do speak for others. Whatever. I know that I am forceful, blunt and highly opinionated. I express what i feel and believe. If this insults you so be it. It shouldn't.
And I don't come in here to make a bunch of friends and buddies. Simply to discuss the game and make my personal feelings and opinions known. And in the process learn from others and possibly expand my knowledge in the workings of the game, etc. So your "perceptions" fall on my deaf ears.
If you're willing to push my wheelchair for me, please do. :)
I never speak for others, at any time. I only speak for myself. So where you get this "universal truth" idea from I don't know. And it's quite obvious from this post that you think that you do speak for others. Whatever. I know that I am forceful, blunt and highly opinionated. I express what i feel and believe. If this insults you so be it. It shouldn't.
And I don't come in here to make a bunch of friends and buddies. Simply to discuss the game and make my personal feelings and opinions known. And in the process learn from others and possibly expand my knowledge in the workings of the game, etc. So your "perceptions" fall on my deaf ears.
Seems I touched a sensible spot there...
Like I said in my first post, try it out for yourself see how it is for you.
James_Rutland
02-04-08, 04:26
thats like saying tr2 is exactly the same as tr1:confused:
Exactly. It is not exactly the same? :confused: It is much harder, better storyline, more classic, more old school, specially with the ring menu, it almost felt like i was playing an classic TR after ages.
It is much harder, better storyline, more classic, more old school, specially with the ring menu, it almost felt like i was playing an classic TR after ages.
Well appearences are definitely deceiving. All of the pre-release promotional videos focused on the classic areas, leading the TR fans on to believe it was going to be very close to the original. Of course that couldn't of been further from the truth.
The game is definitely just TRL in the TR1 "clothing". The poorly redesigned classic levels and bad combat controls just screamed rush job. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Crystal Dynamics screwed with the forumla that made the orignal so phenomenal and #@%@#& it up big time in the process. Bottom line, if you hated TRL you probably won't like TRA much more if at all. If you want my opinion Scott, you should ask for your money back cause the game just isn't worth it.
It is better than Legend. The controls are only sound when using the mouse in my opinion. It is very difficult to screw up once you learn the controls. The game basically plays by itself, with minimal input from you. It's kind of like you generally guiding Lara rather than any real control. But as I said it is a better game than Legend in many ways.
When using the mouse to "point" Lara the game becomes really easy. The wall running can be utilized to it's full potential when you move the view back and forth with the mouse at the apex of her swing, using only the forward key (W). I found this out early on when I had problems switching between the A & D keys. As far as the controls in total, they are only real "controls" in name only. As I said, one simply guides Lara through these new games and the end results are all predetermined. Without real accuracy in the movements, and using autograb (and I recommend it since the game was designed with it, the manual grab is so inconsistent that it is almost useless) one can fly through the game like a spider monkey.
All in all the game had it's moments. I still dislike it as a Tomb Raider game intensely, but if the main character was Reginald Crosby and the title was Relic Hunter it would have been a pretty good game. But alas, poor Lara was demoted into what basically amounts to a run-of-the-mill adventure character in basically a glorified interactive dvd.
I agree with Eddie here,that the game really does play itself, and I couldn't play the PC version without a gamepad beacuse the controls are terrible. The classic TR's had a better control system that worked, and I don't see why Crystal changed it so? It's obvious the game was meant to be played on consoles, not PC's.
They changed the story somewhat(for the worse), and butchered alot of the levels except for St Francis Folly, which was AMAZING. Why couldn't the rest of the game be like SFF? And don't even bother listening to the commentaries:rolleyes:
I do have to say though that it's better than Legend and TR Chronicles atleast, and is longer than Legend, and bit more difficult. So it's worth a try....just prepare yourself for the controls, camera, and combat.
Well, now that guy's been taken care of :cool:, I can get back on topic and add a little more stuff here.
Scott, I forgot to mention that maybe you'll enjoy some aspects of Anniversary that you won't find in Legend. Legend has been widely criticized because the storyline took Lara far away from her ancient tomb exploring traits that we all loved when the series started (something similar to the comments Tomb Raider II: The Dagger Of Xian first brought up). Lara was no more an intrepid Indiana Jones-esque female character who just would stop at nothing to get her objectives completed, instead Lara became more of a James Bond type character who entered in combats using state of the art guns fighting SWAT commandos every five minutes. Many fans didn't like this new approach (as for myself, I just LOVED the combats in Legend!) and this was the starting point of all the divided opinions towards these new games. Fortunately, Anniversary tries to bring Lara back to her roots, which is widely appreciated. :)
Sometime ago I started a thread with my honest opinions about Anniversary and that horrible "Adrenaline Dodge" move, if you want to read it click this guy below:
Clicky --> :yah: (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=119348)
Hope you find some useful info there.
As for the game itself, I'm sure that although chances are you won't like the controls at first, just wanting to see how the designers revamped each one of the leves from the original will be more than enough to enjoy this installement a little more, and I guarantee you, that nostalgic feel will be enough to make you have a pleasant time, just be warned that this game relies much more in wall climbing than platform jumping. If you hated the Grappling Hook in Legend, Anniversary doesn't have too much of that. There are a lot of neat looking little details you'll enjoy: the dust raising from the floor, the insects flying everywhere, that fish swimming beside you, etc. they're all worth to look at.
The Egypt levels are less yellowish, removing that "everything looking like sand" egyptian cliché, and they do look very realistic. The battle with the T-Rex is not as memorable as it was in the original where you were just minding your own business killing raptors when suddenly, out of nowhere, you had seven tons of meat and 12 in. long fangs all over you! :eek:
You'll love the new look in St. Francis Folly, although traversing it is a bit tedious (but then again, it also was in the original). The two sphinxes you find, although they're actually bigger than the original somehow look smaller, don't ask me why. Same goes to the giant statues of Horus and Anubis, they're not as impressive as in the original, they are way more detailed, tho.
Let us know your impressions, thanks for reading.
Célula!
^ Woah thats alot of reading. Oh by the way you avatar sacres me :(.
Eddie Haskell
02-04-08, 14:20
[_aVey;2608067']Well, now that guy's been taken care of :cool:, I can get back on topic and add a little more stuff here.
Way to be a real ass. Totally unnecessary and inflammatory. And your sense of self-importance is really outrageous.
[_aVey;2608067']Scott, I forgot to mention that maybe you'll enjoy some aspects of Anniversary that you won't find in Legend. Legend has been widely criticized because the storyline took Lara far away from her ancient tomb exploring traits that we all loved when the series started (something similar to the comments Tomb Raider II: The Dagger Of Xian first brought up). Lara was no more an intrepid Indiana Jones-esque female character who just would stop at nothing to get her objectives completed, instead Lara became more of a James Bond type character who entered in combats using state of the art guns fighting SWAT commandos every five minutes. Many fans didn't like this new approach (as for myself, I just LOVED the combats in Legend!) and this was the starting point of all the divided opinions towards these new games. Fortunately, Anniversary tries to bring Lara back to her roots, which is widely appreciated. :)
Yes, Anniversary did try and do as you say. The arcade and especially the combat elements were toned down. I'm sure that each individual has their own opinions as to the extent of the changes and how this relates to game improvements. As do you.
[_aVey;2608067']Sometime ago I started a thread with my honest opinions about Anniversary and that horrible "Adrenaline Dodge" move, if you want to read it click this guy below:
[CENTER]Clicky --> :yah: (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=119348)
[LEFT]Hope you find some useful info there.
I read it a while back, and it was very well done. I agree with nearly all of it, save for the references to console controllers which I have no knowledge of. Excellent job! :tmb:
[_aVey;2608067']As for the game itself, I'm sure that although chances are you won't like the controls at first, just wanting to see how the designers revamped each one of the leves from the original will be more than enough to enjoy this installement a little more, and I guarantee you, that nostalgic feel will be enough to make you have a pleasant time, just be warned that this game relies much more in wall climbing than platform jumping. If you hated the Grappling Hook in Legend, Anniversary doesn't have too much of that. There are a lot of neat looking little details you'll enjoy: the dust raising from the floor, the insects flying everywhere, that fish swimming beside you, etc. they're all worth to look at.
The Egypt levels are less yellowish, removing that "everything looking like sand" egyptian cliché, and they do look very realistic. The battle with the T-Rex is not as memorable as it was in the original where you were just minding your own business killing raptors when suddenly, out of nowhere, you had seven tons of meat and 12 in. long fangs all over you! :eek:
You'll love the new look in St. Francis Folly, although traversing it is a bit tedious (but then again, it also was in the original). The two sphinxes you find, although they're actually bigger than the original somehow look smaller, don't ask me why. Same goes to the giant statues of Horus and Anubis, they're not as impressive as in the original, they are way more detailed, tho.
Let us know your impressions, thanks for reading.
Telling Davenport Scott that he will "love the new look" in St. Francis Folly is a bit forward, although certainly it is one of the better levels in the game in my opinion. I still prefer the original, and he may as well. Why not let him decide this for himself?
You seem on a few occasions to want to speak for others (as in a group), and this is fine if you have real, accurate polling data to back it up. Certainly inferences could be made based on what a person reads or hears, but that is all they are, inferences. Otherwise, the wise man speaks for himself.
The "little things" in the game you describe that make it more alive are a nice touch. Your observations concerning the sphinxes and the statues reflect mine as well. And as far as the colors are concerned, I have been to Egypt numerous times. And although the graphics are very generally accurate, they are still too washed out.
And Davenport Scott, you should play the game. Your "your level of disappointment" could be in a few things however. Particularly the AD if you do not learn to do it well. Also the centaurs will be an exercise in frustration if you do not learn the proper (and best) methods of disposing them. Use the mouse as I said to simplify movement. I would simply suggest that you not treat it as a TR game and try to enjoy it as a different kind of adventure game. In that light it is actually a decent game. It doesn't do justice to the original in my opinion, but still has some merit.
Seriously, ][_aVey, the attitude you've been showing towards Eddie in this thread ain't gonna fly round here. This is a friendly community. Don't get off on the wrong foot.
Davenport Scott
02-04-08, 14:59
I went back and tried Legends again yesterday with the suggestions about using the mouse > keyboard only and it does work better. I'm going to try to finish it and move onto Anniversary.
I also may be in a better frame of mind to try it than I was a couple of years ago. The initial 'it's different' drama has faded. I think I like the puzzle and exploration aspect over the more linear shooter stuff.
thanks again for all the input...and no more fighting in my thread :tea:
I went back and tried Legends again yesterday with the suggestions about using the mouse > keyboard only and it does work better. I'm going to try to finish it and move onto Anniversary.
Keyboard and Mouse only makes the game more harder than it really needs to be. You should get that Xbox 360 game controller for windows, It's better tp play Legend and Anniversary with is.
See what you've done, Eddie! You've managed to make me give another run to Anniversary, he, he! I'm just returning from making that T-Rex hit the bucket again. Now I like you, let's go grab a drink sometime, m8!
About those comments of "speak for yourself, don't speak for others", I'd say that I also try to speak for myself always, maybe my way of writing gave you that impression as english is not my native language, so sorry if I was annoying, but your last post was great and finally I can say we do share some opinions regarding this game.
And I must really thank you for reading my posts, because I like when I get feedback of those things I write.
^ Woah thats alot of reading. Oh by the way you avatar sacres me :(.
Yep, that's A LOT of reading! LOL as LOL can be! :vlol: It's just that when I'm typing, the ideas keep coming and keep coming nonstop. I feel like I'm actually talking to someone when I write (typing speed helps too), and before I know it I've already made a complete essay of a certain topic. See? Dang! I'm doing it again, damn it!!!
My avatar? Her name is Lizbeth, she was a character from an old PC game called Undying. What you see in my avatar is after a curse fell on her and her family. If you want to know more about her, be sure to visit THIS PAGE (http://www.ea.com/official/undying/undying/us/main.jsp). There you'll find images of her former self, but somehow that pale skin and unemotional look scares me more. :eek:
Seriously, ][_aVey, the attitude you've been showing towards Eddie in this thread ain't gonna fly round here. This is a friendly community. Don't get off on the wrong foot.
10-4, we were just being mean but in a friendly way, I think forums are for entertainment too, besides all the help you can find here; so no harm is done as long as we don't lose control and start to actually insult the other part. Maybe this will carry us to deviate from the main topic of the thread but (as you can see) very soon we'll return to discuss what's important in it's right place.
Ahí La Bemol!
James_Rutland
02-04-08, 15:38
Well appearences are definitely deceiving. All of the pre-release promotional videos focused on the classic areas, leading the TR fans on to believe it was going to be very close to the original. Of course that couldn't of been further from the truth.
The game is definitely just TRL in the TR1 "clothing". The poorly redesigned classic levels and bad combat controls just screamed rush job. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Crystal Dynamics screwed with the forumla that made the orignal so phenomenal and #@%@#& it up big time in the process. Bottom line, if you hated TRL you probably won't like TRA much more if at all. If you want my opinion Scott, you should ask for your money back cause the game just isn't worth it.
I did. But it's just your opinion. I think you should buy it, it's worth it's money and has it's great moments.
x2crazyidiot
02-04-08, 16:18
I have a theory of sorts which explains why some people didn't like Anniversary:
In all the hype leading up to the remake of Core's original masterpiece, people replayed TR1, going through it to refresh their mind and then see what improvements were made in TRA. However, upon playing Crystal's remake, they were sorely dissapointed as it was still fairly easy, too much combat and parts of levels (or in one case, the entire level) weren't there.
The way I went about it was just playing Legend as the hype quencher. And when it came to finally playing Anniversary, I was thoroughly entertained. And as I'd played TR1 once when I was about 4, I had some amazing feelings of déjā vu whilst playing TRA
Thus coming to a conclusion, I totally agree with Eddie. Treat this game as a completely different franchise, not a remake of something, because you will just be dissapointed like so many others.
p.s. (off topic) ][_aVey, is that Undying the horror game from Clive Barker?
if so, have you played his new game, Jericho? I love it so much :D
p.s. (off topic) ][_aVey, is that Undying the horror game from Clive Barker?
if so, have you played his new game, Jericho? I love it so much :D
Yes it is. I haven't played Jericho yet, but now that you mention it I'll go to GameSpot.com right now and see if they have a review there.
BTW, I agree with your last comments about Anniversary. It should be taken like a complete new installement.
But it's just your opinion.
Yep, my opinion which is also shared by many, many TR fans that were extremely disappointed with the game.
Yep, my opinion which is also shared by many, many TR fans that were extremely disappointed with the game.
You can't really speak for all of us, I really enjoyed Anniversary and Legend!
You can't really speak for all of us, I really enjoyed Anniversary and Legend!
I didn't say I was speaking for all of you. There are a good chunk of people that like the game and a good chunk that don't. I respect that everyone has their own opinion and I'll leave it at that.
da tomb raider!
02-04-08, 20:29
I'd stay well away from Anniversary if I were you. It doesn't improve on Tomb Raider 1 in a single way, and I'm not exaggerating. It's horribly similar to Legend, too. I really wouldn't bother with it if I were you, but if you really want to play it, RENT it before you buy it. :wve:
I'd stay well away from Anniversary if I were you. It doesn't improve on Tomb Raider 1 in a single way, and I'm not exaggerating. It's horribly similar to Legend, too. I really wouldn't bother with it if I were you, but if you really want to play it, RENT it before you buy it. :wve:
It's up to the op, if they like this game. We can't influence thier choice, it's what I have been saying all along!
Eddie Haskell
02-04-08, 20:36
It's up to the op, if they like this game. We can't influence thier choice, it's what I have been saying all along!
Well, you are wrong there. He ASKED for help in deciding, and therefore WAS LOOKING for some influence in his decision. He was swaying in the breeze and sought advice. da tomb raider! gave it same as everyone else. Will it influence the op? He has already said that I did, so perhaps others have and will as well. Don't sell yourself short, have you forgotten about your response concerning the xbox 360 controller?
theres not much exploration. just a heads up so you wont be extremly disappointed.
the actual gameplay very similar to legend.
[_aVey;2608918']Yes it is. I haven't played Jericho yet, but now that you mention it I'll go to GameSpot.com right now and see if they have a review there.
BTW, I agree with your last comments about Anniversary. It should be taken like a complete new installement.
I think the better thing to do is to consider the saga in this point: there are TWO CONTINUITIES, the first is the Core one, then the Crystal one.
I see we are still here trying to compare the games, and there are always the same discussions. I believe that stopping compare the games is the best thing to do: we all know that Core and Crystal (I love both) have their own style, it's pretty silly to compare their games when the genres are now so different.
Of coure, Anniversary is a remake, so it's right to compare with TR1, but take in mind that now there are two worlds. There is no point to compare everything, styles are too different. Keeping this in mind, you can choose which world you love the most and consider that kind continuity as your favourite one.
Have lots of patience for TRA. The interface and controls are even more frustrating than TRL. There are some ridiculous timed traps or runs that will have you pulling your hair out.
Controls are frustrating? :confused:
cococomics_pres
03-04-08, 02:55
Controls are frustrating? :confused:
I second this confusion. There weren't really any major changes between TRL and TRA in terms of controls were there? Also I like the hair-pulling factor of puzzles and timed things, but that's my personal opinion.
In my opinion Crystal didn't have enough "tomb raiding experience" to remake a classic tomb raider, especially after just creating Legend. I feel that Eidos should have released the Core Anniversary game as Core's last TR and then let CD keep making new game instead.
Just my 2 cents
In my opinion Crystal didn't have enough "tomb raiding experience" to remake a classic tomb raider, especially after just creating Legend. I feel that Eidos should have released the Core Anniversary game as Core's last TR and then let CD keep making new game instead.
Just my 2 cents
The point of remakes is to appeal to new audiences. Core lacked the experience with current-gen games to produce a game that appealed to the new fans brought by Legend and to prospective new fans. You can see it that way too ;)
For both TR Legend and TR Anniversary on a PC, I recommend setting the mouse buttons as follows:
left button - fire weapon (default setting)
middle button (or wheel press) - grapple
right button - adrenaline dodge + duck + roll
This reduces the number of keys that have be pressed at the same time with the left hand.
For wall runs, there are many spots where the camera can't be placed "behind" lara, and I found it much more consistent to aim the camera directly at the wall, and use left right (and down for side jumps). An example video of this:
traok3.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/tr/traok3.wmv)
IMO TRA is better than TRL. The controls are the same. If anything you HAVE to get used to it to overcome the bosses, & some of the timed challenges. So go on & try it out, that's the best way to find out ;) :tmb:
Eddie Haskell
03-04-08, 13:59
For both TR Legend and TR Anniversary on a PC, I recommend setting the mouse buttons as follows:
left button - fire weapon (default setting)
middle button (or wheel press) - grapple
right button - adrenaline dodge + duck + roll
This reduces the number of keys that have be pressed at the same time with the left hand.
For wall runs, there are many spots where the camera can't be placed "behind" lara, and I found it much more consistent to aim the camera directly at the wall, and use left right (and down for side jumps). An example video of this:
traok3.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/tr/traok3.wmv)
I found that simply using the "W" key and using the mouse to change the view at the apex of the run, instead of switching between the "A" and "D" keys was the best. I felt that I had finer control of this maneuver by executing it this way. So it was simply one key to move and than the thumb on the spacebar to jump.
IMO TRA is better than TRL. The controls are the same. If anything you HAVE to get used to it to overcome the bosses, & some of the timed challenges. So go on & try it out, that's the best way to find out ;) :tmb:
Agreed, yes it has.
I found that simply using the "W" key and using the mouse to change the view at the apex of the run, instead of switching between the "A" and "D" keys was the best. I felt that I had finer control of this maneuver by executing it this way. So it was simply one key to move and than the thumb on the spacebar to jump.
Yes, this is how the game should be played... are there people who don't use the mouse and move around with "A" and "D" keys?! :confused:
Yes, this is how the game should be played... are there people who don't use the mouse and move around with "A" and "D" keys?! :confused:
I do :p
In my opinion Crystal didn't have enough "tomb raiding experience" to remake a classic tomb raider, especially after just creating Legend. I feel that Eidos should have released the Core Anniversary game as Core's last TR and then let CD keep making new game instead.
Just my 2 cents
You do realise that they spent a year studying what makes a tomb raider game a tomb raider game, that they replayed tr1 many times, that they asked fans what they wanted in the game and that they brought in toby gard to help (and even chatted with core design about it).
Eddie Haskell
04-04-08, 13:51
You do realise that they spent a year studying what makes a tomb raider game a tomb raider game, that they replayed tr1 many times, that they asked fans what they wanted in the game and that they brought in toby gard to help (and even chatted with core design about it).
Watching a movie many times doesn't make or mean that you like it or believe in it. And asking the fans what they like is fine, but every fan has an opinion and as you know from here one man's porterhouse steak is another mans Spam in the can. And hiring a man who left before the series really got going has little to do with the game as it developed back then.
All told, Anniversary was their game. A kind of "based on" tv movie, where the original author goes on Oprah to complain about the poor and loose manner in which his baby was presented. So while they may have played the original, and they may have asked the fans, and they hired a meaningless front man for a concept, they still learned precious little from the original game. At least not much of what was important.
I found that simply using the "W" key and using the mouse to change the view at the apex of the run, instead of switching between the "A" and "D" keys was the best. I felt that I had finer control of this maneuver by executing it this way. So it was simply one key to move and than the thumb on the spacebar to jump.
I've never got used to the WASD configuration, let me tell you a little secret, I have fingernails about 2cm long (seriously! :)) thus trying to use that config is Hell! I play a lot of FPS games too, so I always use the arrow keys. For Anniversary this is my config:
ARROW KEYS: Movement.
MOUSE (LEFT BUTTON): Shooting. You must use your most reliable and strongest finger to attack repeteadly.
MOUSE (RIGHT BUTTON): Jump. The most used button in the entire game.
MOUSE (WHEEL/MIDDLE BUTTON): Roll/Adrenaline Dodge. I use this button for grappling in Legend, but since there are very few grappling puzzles here and using Adrenaline Dodge is way more important here, this is the config that works best for me.
I agree, the Left and Right keys are rarely used since turning can be done very precisely with the mouse, but they are a life-saver when in combat, that way you can move Lara one way while not losing the enemy from your sights.
Special commands like Interact, grappling hook, etc. I map them on the NumPad or near those keys, that way I can reach those buttons in one swift move with my right hand by leaving the mouse for a brief moment.
Most of my dissapointment and frustration with Anniversary started because when I first got the game, before even starting it I mapped all the commands into my gamepad as similar as it could be to the original PS controller config, but I yearned because I had to struggle with the camera position, and couldn't find a comfortable button to map the grappling hook. I can't believe I finished the game twice using that config in my gamepad, it always felt awkward somehow. Later I decided to give the keyboard/mouse config another chance, and it worked wonders.
Watching a movie many times doesn't make or mean that you like it or believe in it. And asking the fans what they like is fine, but every fan has an opinion and as you know from here one man's porterhouse steak is another mans Spam in the can. And hiring a man who left before the series really got going has little to do with the game as it developed back then.
All told, Anniversary was their game. A kind of "based on" tv movie, where the original author goes on Oprah to complain about the poor and loose manner in which his baby was presented. So while they may have played the original, and they may have asked the fans, and they hired a meaningless front man for a concept, they still learned precious little from the original game. At least not much of what was important.
You said it yourself. Each fans has it's own interpretation of what makes the game great. Developers are no different.
Also 10-year-old successful concepts don't necessarily translate right in the same way these days. It's a bit like making a 3d sequel to a great 2d game. Just look at how many Sonic fans disliked Sonic Adventure and how a lot of new people loved it. Nostalgia blinds people.
A good example is the scale of the game and the Lost Valley example CD gave when explaining.
x2crazyidiot
04-04-08, 15:28
[_aVey;2608918']Yes it is. I haven't played Jericho yet, but now that you mention it I'll go to GameSpot.com right now and see if they have a review there.
BTW, I agree with your last comments about Anniversary. It should be taken like a complete new installement.
It's quite similar to Undying, in terms of FPS+guns+powers. It's also got a fantastic story
I just think that it's the most logical thing to do. Because if you compare it to the past, you won't like it, and then that means you won't be able to play any new Tomb Raider games. Which would be a massive shame
Eddie Haskell
04-04-08, 15:45
You said it yourself. Each fans has it's own interpretation of what makes the game great. Developers are no different.
Also 10-year-old successful concepts don't necessarily translate right in the same way these days. It's a bit like making a 3d sequel to a great 2d game. Just look at how many Sonic fans disliked Sonic Adventure and how a lot of new people loved it. Nostalgia blinds people.
A good example is the scale of the game and the Lost Valley example CD gave when explaining.
No argument there.
Nostalgia is a good thing, not a bad one. It can be perverted somewhat, but all in all it is one of the beautiful things about us humans. And because of this fact, it is a double-edged sword to do a remake, if the new creators try and deviate much from the original, as they run a great risk of alienating the fans of the prototype. I understand their rationale perfectly. But they must accept the risk factor as well.
sandra croft
04-04-08, 18:25
You do realise that they spent a year studying what makes a tomb raider game a tomb raider game, that they replayed tr1 many times, that they asked fans what they wanted in the game and that they brought in toby gard to help (and even chatted with core design about it).
For a company to played it many times they certainly didnīt capture it, I doubt the fans said cut 30 % of the original thatīs boring anyway.:(
No argument there.
Nostalgia is a good thing, not a bad one. It can be perverted somewhat, but all in all it is one of the beautiful things about us humans. And because of this fact, it is a double-edged sword to do a remake, if the new creators try and deviate much from the original, as they run a great risk of alienating the fans of the prototype. I understand their rationale perfectly. But they must accept the risk factor as well.
I think they do. But it's a risk they must take if they want to please more than just the fans of the original. Ten years is a long of time. Some TR1 fans might not even game anymore and some might have given up on the franchise. (Personally I lost my interest with TR3 quite a bit and skipped TR4 altogether, although for more than one reason ( ie broke, hadn't got a system to play the game etc). The purpose of a remake is to retell a good story, or in this case game, while making it more modern and accessible.
I consider myself first and foremost a TR1 fan. I judge every TR game in comparison with the original game, not with Core's TRs. That is why despite not deeming TRA a perfect remake it still manages to be my second favorite of all the TRs (ex-aequo some parts of TR2). I can't expect current TRs to have exactly the same mechanics present in the original game with a coat of shiny current-gen-3d paint.
CD are not doing the perfect job as caterers to my interests but they are doing a good job of reviving the franchise and making it about Tomb Raiding again which also pleases me.
sandra croft
04-04-08, 20:05
You said it yourself. Each fans has it's own interpretation of what makes the game great. Developers are no different.
Also 10-year-old successful concepts don't necessarily translate right in the same way these days. It's a bit like making a 3d sequel to a great 2d game. Just look at how many Sonic fans disliked Sonic Adventure and how a lot of new people loved it. Nostalgia blinds people.
A good example is the scale of the game and the Lost Valley example CD gave when explaining.
I like TRA itīs a good game, but if it hadnīt been cut I would have loved it, I really donīt understand how anyone can defend seriously cutting, itīs so obvious that the game was rushed and that they cut down on quality to make money. A good remake should undoubtly be 1:1 remake plus then some like the remake of resident evil.
Also 10-year-old successful concepts don't necessarily translate right in the same way these days.
Like Sandra mentioned, Capcom did an amazing job with the GameCube Resident Evil remake. Just about everything from the original is in there and they also added some new sections. It translated very well and proved to be very sucessful. This was what Core Design was doing with TRAE. Crystal of course made the rush job version using the TRL engine and subtracted much, much from the original than they added.
I like TRA itīs a good game, but if it hadnīt been cut I would have loved it, I really donīt understand how anyone can defend seriously cutting,.
I'm not defending anything. Like I said TRA is not my perfect remake but the truth is the part that was cut (which btw is one of my favorite levels in the original - Tomb of Tihocan) would probably not adapt itself too well to the new game mechanics.
yesrushdt : Even though I'm a fellow progger I can't agree with you when you say Core Design were doing the same thing with TRAE. Do you have any proof? CD is as much guilty of rushing TRA as Core is of rushing AOD. They are only the developers . Publishers are the ones who demand dates and deadlines. And Capcom can take all the time they want with a game. They are both developer and publisher. Some here are still convinced that this is a simple process but game developing is anything BUT simple.
Eddie Haskell
04-04-08, 21:32
Like Sandra mentioned, Capcom did an amazing job with the GameCube Resident Evil remake. Just about everything from the original is in there and they also added some new sections. It translated very well and proved to be very sucessful. This was what Core Design was doing with TRAE. Crystal of course made the rush job version using the TRL engine and subtracted much, much from the original than they added.
I like TRA itīs a good game, but if it hadnīt been cut I would have loved it, I really donīt understand how anyone can defend seriously cutting, itīs so obvious that the game was rushed and that they cut down on quality to make money. A good remake should undoubtly be 1:1 remake plus then some like the remake of resident evil.
I said it from the beginning, a 1:1 remake would have served CD better. That way all that anyone could have complained about was how they had done it, and there would not be the scrutiny and scorn for what was altered or left out. I actually believe that if they had done this there would not be anything near the amount of negative criticism that we have seen.
The reason for this is that it sends a message to a portion of the old fans that something (or many things) they loved was not worth putting in the remake of their masterpiece. Or that something they looked forward to seeing was altered horribly or simply ignored.
It's a copout to say that something done 10 years ago cannot be translated well, it sounds like words right out of a pathetic apologists mouth. They didn't do it so therefore find an excuse to defend it.
I said it from the beginning, a 1:1 remake would have served CD better. That way all that anyone could have complained about was how they had done it, and there would not be the scrutiny and scorn for what was altered or left out. I actually believe that if they had done this there would not be anything near the amount of negative criticism that we have seen.
The reason for this is that it sends a message to a portion of the old fans that something (or many things) they loved was not worth putting in the remake of their masterpiece. Or that something they looked forward to seeing was altered horribly or simply ignored.
It's a copout to say that something done 10 years ago cannot be translated well, it sounds like words right out of a pathetic apologists mouth. They didn't do it so therefore find an excuse to defend it.
Couldn't have said it better myself:tmb:
It's a copout to say that something done 10 years ago cannot be translated well, it sounds like words right out of a pathetic apologists mouth. They didn't do it so therefore find an excuse to defend it.
Easy now. Like I said before I'm not defending them. I just choose not to blame them and whine about it all the time. I too would like that things would have been kept but I can see how some cuts would make sense when someone sees the game through their eyes. I mean if I were to make a remake of TR1 I'd do some changes to the original myself. The game might have been one of my favorites of all time, doesn't mean it's perfect. It's a given CD is doing their thing to the franchise. I just choose not to criticize them for it. How else are they supposed to develop the games? They would be hypocrites if they didn't like the games they did.
I don't like a lot of things they did in their games just like I didn't like a lot of things Core did in theirs. Oh and I'm a fan and I didn't get such a message.
And again, a remake isn't primarily aimed towards fans. Marketing could lead you to think otherwise but that's never true.
Eddie Haskell
04-04-08, 21:48
Easy now. Like I said before I'm not defending them. I just choose not to blame them and whine about it all the time. I too would like that things would have been kept but I can see how some cuts would make sense when someone sees the game through their eyes. I mean if I were to make a remake of TR1 I'd do some changes to the original myself. The game might have been one of my favorites of all time, doesn't mean it's perfect. It's a given CD is doing their thing to the franchise. I just choose not to criticize them for it. How else are they supposed to develop the games? They would be hypocrites if they didn't like the games they did.
I don't like a lot of things they did in their games just like I didn't like a lot of things Core did in theirs. Oh and I'm a fan and I didn't get such a message.
I totally disagree. It's one thing to put your take and stamp on the progression of a character or game series, but when it comes to a remake...well...they best not despoil a treasure. It can only cause a schism or at best animosity from a segment of the fan base. This was a mistake on their part in my opinion. They could have united the new and the old, and created the atmosphere and great anticipation for Underworld well beyond what we have now.
Now, as to your other questions, I do agree that they need to create the new games as they see fit to. It is after all their baby now.
And I know you love TR1, as do I. And truthfully you and I think alike, just that I am more inclined to "complain" a lot more... ;)
Now, as to your other questions, I do agree that they need to create the new games as they see fit to. It is after all their baby now.
You got it. :D
I can't agree with you when you say Core Design were doing the same thing with TRAE. Do you have any proof?
From an interview with Phil Chapman who worked on TRAE:
It was said quite some time back that the level design for TRAE was built upon the original level structures of Tomb Raider 1. Could you tell us more about this?
We did have all 15 original maps, exported from the original game, to use as templates for the new levels. This would provide us with the feeling of familiarity within the level design but advances in graphics and code allowed us to ' open ' up a lot of these area's bringing a much grander scope and feel to many of them.
I totally disagree. It's one thing to put your take and stamp on the progression of a character or game series, but when it comes to a remake...well...they best not despoil a treasure. It can only cause a schism or at best animosity from a segment of the fan base. This was a mistake on their part in my opinion. They could have united the new and the old, and created the atmosphere and great anticipation for Underworld well beyond what we have now.
Now, as to your other questions, I do agree that they need to create the new games as they see fit to. It is after all their baby now.
And I know you love TR1, as do I. And truthfully you and I think alike, just that I am more inclined to "complain" a lot more... ;)
Yeah :p God knows I have a huge gripe with TRA's soundtrack, for example. Troels Folmann is probably a good guy and I'm not going to say he's incompetent. But I don't at all agree with the direction they took in terms of music. TRA was a great opportunity to bring the series back to what it should sound like, in my opinion, which is TR1esque. Music was unbelievably important for me when I played TR1 for the first time. It made the game in a way. That doesn't mean I'm going to start ad hominem attacks like most unhappy people on the forum ;)
CD, Toby Gard, everyone needs an escape goat....
Endow, what didn't you like about the TRA soundtrack? I thought it was excellent, much better than Legends(although Legends had its moments).
From an interview with Phil Chapman who worked on TRAE:
Fair enough. Although from the footage I've seen I couldn't really recognize the levels that easy. We will never know if it would in fact work, though. Do you know anything about what they planned to do gameplay wise?
Eddie Haskell
05-04-08, 03:55
That doesn't mean I'm going to start ad hominem attacks like most unhappy people on the forum ;)
No time like the present. Rant away, you'll feel better afterwards. :)
Endow, what didn't you like about the TRA soundtrack? I thought it was excellent, much better than Legends(although Legends had its moments).
Simply put, it was a good soundtrack, just not a good TR soundtrack. Of course (haven't played AOD) none of the other soundtracks seemed good TR soundtracks to me with the exception of TR1 and some of TR2.
I think TR music is all about the simple orchestral music with not much chaos going around (not many instruments at once) and with harps and choirs solo-ing from time to time.
I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I first fired up the jetski in the level Tibetan Foothills in TR2. I though to myself "Wait, techno? Hey wait a minute, I'm not even anywhere near a tomb. And I got lots of company here. Looky there! A merc".:( I was tomb raiding no more....
Also I think for all the criticism based on principle people have been making they fail to mention this very important aspect.
No time like the present. Rant away, you'll feel better afterwards. :)
My point is I need no rants or scapegoats, I can always play TR1 yet again ;)
I actually rant about TR quite often. I prefer to adress "music" instead of Troells and "character" instead of Toby :p
sandra croft
05-04-08, 08:50
I'm not defending anything. Like I said TRA is not my perfect remake but the truth is the part that was cut (which btw is one of my favorite levels in the original - Tomb of Tihocan) would probably not adapt itself too well to the new game mechanics.
yesrushdt : Even though I'm a fellow progger I can't agree with you when you say Core Design were doing the same thing with TRAE. Do you have any proof? CD is as much guilty of rushing TRA as Core is of rushing AOD. They are only the developers . Publishers are the ones who demand dates and deadlines. And Capcom can take all the time they want with a game. They are both developer and publisher. Some here are still convinced that this is a simple process but game developing is anything BUT simple.
If they only had cut Tomb of Tihocan it wouldnīt have been a big problem unfortunately that wasnīt the only level to be cut. About adapting to the new game mechanism - sure there was some changes needed but they didnīt have to cut down so much on size because of it. Obelisk of khamoon is a perfect example, itīs a level thatīs quite different from the original but still have a decent size. Itīs even better than the original despite the fact thatīs itīs a little shorter since itīs harder, so some smaller cutting could have been okey but not 30 %. As for to tight deadline you might be right it may very well be Eidos fault but it kind of strange that AOD got years in development and TRA so little. Okey it was a 10 years celebration but they could have at least pushed the released date to christmas 2007.
sandra croft
05-04-08, 12:13
Easy now. Like I said before I'm not defending them. I just choose not to blame them and whine about it all the time. I too would like that things would have been kept but I can see how some cuts would make sense when someone sees the game through their eyes. I mean if I were to make a remake of TR1 I'd do some changes to the original myself. The game might have been one of my favorites of all time, doesn't mean it's perfect. It's a given CD is doing their thing to the franchise. I just choose not to criticize them for it. How else are they supposed to develop the games? They would be hypocrites if they didn't like the games they did.
Anyway just because I critisize TRA doesnīt mean I hate CD, I do it because it might helped them make better games in the future. People must be able to express their opion in order to change whatīs bad, how else are the developers suppose to know what the fans like or donīt like. Anyway maybe itīs no point in critize TRA anymore as long as they donīt rush TRU also. As for CD liking their games Iīm sure but maybe they arenīt totally satisfied with the time they got for development and should have fought harder to convinced Eidos that the time wasnīt enough.
I think TR music is all about the simple orchestral music with not much chaos going around (not many instruments at once) and with harps and choirs solo-ing from time to time.
An off-topic note about Frohman's work and Hollywood style scoring in general: There's a certain musical vocabulary (that you pretty aptly describe as too much chaos and instruments :p) that has become a reference to 'epic sounding', rather than actually being epic.
It points its finger to James Horner, Hans Zimmer, Alain Silvestri and of course John Williams, saying 'well something like that, you know,' without ever even remotely reaching their musical skill and quality.
A recent example is the Pirates of the Caribbean score. Musically, thematically, its main theme is pathetic. But just throw in the grand orchestra (Synthesized even, maybe?) and the crowd thinks yay pirate music!
Shameful.
TRI's soundtrack was simple, sincere, and true to itself. Authenticity is the magic word that CD needs to master.
/Rant ;)
Anyway just because I critisize TRA doesnīt mean I hate CD, I do it because it might helped them make better games in the future. People must be able to express their opion in order to change whatīs bad, how else are the developers suppose to know what the fans like or donīt like. Anyway maybe itīs no point in critize TRA anymore as long as they donīt rush TRU also. As for CD liking their games Iīm sure but maybe they arenīt totally satisfied with the time they got for development and should have fought harder to convinced Eidos that the time wasnīt enough.
Well in the gaming industry developers have NO way to fight certain situations. Publishers are financing everything and they get to decide when things come out. I'm not saying they did or didn't try to fight it (no one can possibly know anyway) but I'm saying even if they wanted they would have to present some pretty strong arguments like - "the game is fundamentally fraud and is unplayable at this point" or something like that. From a fan's perspective these cuts can mean the world but if the game is fun & playable the publisher always wants to release sooner than later. And even if the developer is inclined to agree with the fans the publisher ultimately decides.
Concerning criticism as a ways to feedback that is certainly true. I wasn't talking about you specifically but there are a multitude of ways to say the same thing and a lot of people here don't seem to have grasped that concept just yet.
Ilves : Thank you, that's what I meant. But more than anything people tend to think that what makes great movie music also makes great videogame music. I think that is far from truth. The variable that is interactivity changes everything.
Not to mention "epic" music isn't the only kind of good music (in fact I'd argue only some of those artists you mention do it right). A lot of the music in TR1 was, in my opinionm rather intimate actually.
AmericanAssassin
05-04-08, 20:16
First of all, I should inform you that I am a major fan of both Anniversary and Legend. However, I am primarily a fan of the classics. Tomb Raider: Anniversary doesn't live up to the original, with one exception. Every level has been butchered, massacred, or destroyed in some way. The only level that fully feels like a Tomb Raider level is the St. Francis Folly. In fact, CD might have won me over under best level design ever on that level alone (with the exception of the ORIGINAL Cistern, which was butchered in the remake). You should buy the game, but I should warn you: If you were a fan of the Atlantis level in the original, you might die during play. The three level combined only take about 45 minutes to complete. Yuck. Also, if you liked the way levels used to wind in and out together in the past, that is gone. Linear play, to the max. Here's what I posted in the Top 15 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=123142) thread on how I felt about each and every level:
1. St. Francis Folly The only level that I feel CD did more successful in level design than Core...I was very impressed.
2. Sanctuary of the Scion The puzzles in this level were truly epic. I wish CD could make more of them...
3. Obelisk of Khamoon This level showed real Tomb Raider qualities... The traps alone made this level amazing.
4. Tomb of Qualopec I'm not sure what it is about this level, but I found it insanely entertaining... especially in the dark parts for Wii.
5. Tomb of Tihocan The only part of this level that won me over was the centaur battle, but it made the level one of the top.
6. Temple of Khamoon Beautiful level design and creepy mummy creatures... Ahhh!
7. Palace Midas Even though they completely massacred the originally amazing level, I still loved what was salvaged...
8. The Lost Valley From the outside, it looked full of things to do, but not once you play it. Plus, I best the T-Rex on hard mode on my first try.
9. Natla's Mines All I could do was ask myself, "What happened to all the boulders?" The chopped up my second favorite level of all time.
10. Coliseum What happened to this level? It was epic at one time, not it's been reduced to a 5-minute filler level?!
11. Mountain Caves Can one of you wake me up when this boring level is over? I'm dying here... Plus, the outside section was lame.
12. City of Vilcabamba With the exception of The Cistern, no other level got nearly as chopped up. Plus, they made it boring somehow.
13. The Final Conflict Although Natla was insanely easy and the level was killed, I loved the little lava pit segment... Pure tomb raiding!
14. The Great Pyramid What happened to all of the side rooms? Why was Bacon Lara so easy? How come the camera never works?
15. The Cistern (Segment) This was my favorite level by a mile in the original, but they murdered it and it absolutley sucked in TRA.
...I'd argue only some of those artists you mention do it right).
Right. Scrap James Horner. :D
EDIT:
Of course (haven't played AOD) none of the other soundtracks seemed good TR soundtracks to me with the exception of TR1 and some of TR2.
I thought TR3's soundtrack was very atmospheric and closer to the 'intimacy' of TRI than TR2 was.
sandra croft
06-04-08, 08:19
From a fan's perspective these cuts can mean the world but if the game is fun & playable the publisher always wants to release sooner than later. And even if the developer is inclined to agree with the fans the publisher ultimately decides.
TRA was playable but Iīm still a bit supprised that they realised it when they did, I think it a little strange that it got as good reviews as it did and wasnīt a total disaster.
Concerning criticism as a ways to feedback that is certainly true. I wasn't talking about you specifically but there are a multitude of ways to say the same thing and a lot of people here don't seem to have grasped that concept just yet.
Youīre right I was a bit disapointed with TRL and TRA but I still like them. CD has done a good job overall but could improve on leveldesign and difficulty. When I crtizise something I try to always start with; I donīt hate CD or I liked TRA but...and if I ever come on to strong I apologize to CD because I still believe that they might be the right company for TR, because I think their games are at least better than AOD, that really didnīt impress me. I guess it all depends on how TRU turns out. In other words Iīm not sure if I want Core back but I want some Core elements back. :D
The main complaint about AOD was the change to the controls, and yet, TRL and TRA use virtually the same controls. TRA has problem points, just like AOD, for TRL, the Great Pyramid timed sequences, for AOD, Kurt versus Boaz the bug sequence.
I think AOD, in spite of all the complaints, helped players in accepting the new control format used in TRL and TRA. If it wasn't for AOD, then players would have complained a lot more about TRL.
I would have liked to seen the AOD trilogy completed, and now that TRL+TRA have started a new storyline with Lara's quest to find her mother, I'd like to see that completed, but not sure if I ever will.
What I never got about the controls for AOD, TRL, and TRA is the left right movement. Why deviate from the precedent of first person shooters, where left / right is a strafe movement (like the old sideways movement in the older TR games), if there's no forwards motion? Mouse is used to turn the main character, or to steer when the character is moving.
sandra croft
07-04-08, 03:28
The main complaint about AOD was the change to the controls, and yet, TRL and TRA use virtually the same controls. TRA has problem points, just like AOD, for TRL, the Great Pyramid timed sequences, for AOD, Kurt versus Boaz the bug sequence.
I think AOD, in spite of all the complaints, helped players in accepting the new control format used in TRL and TRA. If it wasn't for AOD, then players would have complained a lot more about TRL.
I would have liked to seen the AOD trilogy completed, and now that TRL+TRA have started a new storyline with Lara's quest to find her mother, I'd like to see that completed, but not sure if I ever will.
What I never got about the controls for AOD, TRL, and TRA is the left right movement. Why deviate from the precedent of first person shooters, where left / right is a strafe movement (like the old sideways movement in the older TR games), if there's no forwards motion? Mouse is used to turn the main character, or to steer when the character is moving.
I heard that the controlls for PC are bad in TRL and TRA, but on PS2 they are much better tan AOD
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