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View Full Version : Need help: TREP vs NGLE, level crashes.


Yasin
03-04-08, 17:54
WARNING
Epic post lenght detected and serious content. Please read carefully before replying. Thank you in advance.

The problem short:
I decided to use TREP to fix certain things for my level but it only made things crash.

The story
I will explain detail by detail what I tried so far. So here we go, first some self analysis.

I got three levels in my project. When I applied TREP:
Level 1 Beyonder's Hand - crashes
Level 2 City of Sanus - Runs fine, no errors
Level 3 Tower of Eyes - Runs fine, no errors

All three levels use different WAD but have the similar build ( meaning I am using the same Lara look and mostly standard objects such as doors/trapdoors. The statics and animating objects ofcourse vary.

So what is the problem. Well I cannot seem to apply TREP patches. Cause as soon as I do it my level 1 crashes. First I thought the problem was in my WAD. Because when I was testing the same objects in my 2nd level nothing happened. Infact I went trough a serious Trial & Error in order to detect the problem. This is what I tried in chronological order:

Trial & Error #1
1 by 1 deleting objects from my WAD untill the level starts booting. This resulted in bumping into a TR3 Lizzard enemy and TR2 Spider/littlespider which I downloaded from trsearch engine. Enemies are made by author Baddy.

But! This one is busted cause when I use the same objects in my 2nd level everything runs fine.

Trial & Error #2
Rebuilding the WAD. I rebuilded the wad using the wad from my second level. Thinking my WAD might be corrupted entirely. I first started adding the enemies cause they were most suspected. Then everytime when I add something testing level 1. Well Untill I bumped into the statics the level started crashing again.

So the problem might be statics no ? NO! See Trial nr 3

Trial & Error #3
Total scratch build. I deleted my WAD from the folder and opened my project in NGLE. I did cancel when it asked for the objects. It removed all objects from my level. I saved the prj under a different name and used the WAD which I had rebuild from T&E 2. I only added Lara and guess what. Level crashed.

I was entirely confused why this happened. I mean it is the similar WAD with only 1 Lara in the level not anything else.

Trial & Error #4
So I thought I will do reverse test. I added ALL objects from the "suspicious" WAD into the WAD of my 2nd level. I added every single object in 2nd level WAD inside the level, even the enemies + triggers. I booted up the 2nd level and it runs like a charm.

Now I am starting to think it might be my level itself. But that does not makes any sence. Why would my level conflict with TREP. It must be somehow the WAD no ?

Trial & Error #5
Return to the roots. I always make backups of my WAD whenever I am adding something major. So I have like 5 backup wads of my 1st level. I put back the WAD from very first backup and loaded up my latest project.

It runs perfectly with TREP.

Small self conclusion
If I compare all Trial and Errors, obviously SOME object in my WAD is causing a problem. However I do not think this is 100% WAD problem. It also somehow has to do with the level. Because see Trial and Error #4.

Info about things I use
Here is some more info about the stuff I am using:

Q: When did this problem started
A: As soon as I started using TREP. I have version 0.76b from author website.

Q: What fixes/patches you using with TREP
A: The only fix/patch I am using is the compass bugfix and holster

Q: What version of NGLE you using ?
A: The one with trng_binaries.zip from author's website (http://www.trlevelmanager.net/ng.htm). NG_Tomb2pc 1.1 and NGLE about info says NG 1.1.2.9

Q: Do you have custom objects in your WAD i.e self made?
A: Yes , self made but so does 2nd level has.

Q: Did you used clean tomb4.exe before applying the TREP?
A: Yes. This one listed here (http://trep.trlevel.de/en/downloads.html)

If someone happens to know the problem and has a solution for it. I would love you 1000 years if you would help out.

The thing is I don't mind if it does not work. I was not planning to use TREP actually in my levels but I thougth that in my 2nd and 3rd level some features might become handy. But if it doesn't works then I have no choice but to continue with the tomb4.exe provided with NGLE. That one works fine and no errors at all.

Thank you for your time.

Domino
03-04-08, 18:00
Maybe your using TRNG, thinking it's NGLE?

Yasin
03-04-08, 18:16
Pardon me but perhaps some more explanation would be grateful.

PS edit: and I wonder if you even read the entire post. Sounds like not.

WhiteTiger
03-04-08, 18:47
I read it and damn...

I'm not expert for trep, but did you try to make just one new room with lara in it? Maybe some rooms causing problems without some reason that we can detect...

Yasin
03-04-08, 19:40
No =/ still crashes. Even placing Lara in another chamber causes same thing.

kamilszy
03-04-08, 20:02
One thing is not clear to me.... You use trng_binaries, so tomb4.exe from the zip as well. Then you try to apply trep to this executable, modified by Paolone, which is not a standard trle engine (their sizes differ, too). I don't know if it is a safe operation to use trep not on standard exe, even if trep seems to recognize faultly trng engine like standard engine... Trep and ngle engine are not fully compatible... I simply don't know if it has any importance here...

Yasin
03-04-08, 20:13
Ah finally some more sence making post. Forgive me for my english since it is not my native language.

I do not use the tomb4.exe from the zip file. I know this does not work. I only use the dll file, NGLE.exe, objects_H and the NG_Tomb2pc included. The "clean" original tomb4.exe I am using from the TREP authors website.

Am I doing something wrong here ? Does this conflict ? =/

Edit: added links in first post for the source I am using to make it hopefully more clear.

stranger1992
03-04-08, 20:19
Try using this:
http://ewgj6g.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pfvd6gpPQ5qt-GDMKDLfFt_YnqbJKwgkrWLTVKyCDjrSPiXPdWcu6F-ojzp1L_gPluQBRO1dMGogE7c7KCk0zag/Old%20NGLE.zip?download

it is the old NGLe before the TRNG came out. I use it with TREP since it is compatible. :D

Yasin
03-04-08, 20:27
Do I have to do something special with my level or pay attention to something when using the old NGLE or what ?

Cause I know you gave me this link also on LH stranger but I didn't excactly knew what to do with it =/

stranger1992
03-04-08, 20:36
Well okay there are 2 versions of NGLE:

Before tomb Raider Next Generation (the one without the binaries) that works with the old tomb4 and TREP.

and

After TRNG which dont work with TREP.


I suggest you use the ngle in the link as you have used TREP. :D
Also, if you have any scripts (script.txt and english.txt) that have special instructions in them that are new because of the NGLE delete them. Try getting a blank copy of the script files that came with TRLE and then see if it makes a difference. :D

Yasin
03-04-08, 20:40
You know it still crashes, even with the old NGLE. But I do not think this has to do with NGLE/TREP or me using wrong files.

Didn't I perhaps simply reached a limit or something? Cause I just tried to delete an large area I builded for a possible level split and the game ran fine. Including triggering the enemies.

Using the NGLE you provided stranger, I applied inside TREP increase enemy/object limit, remap particles, increase vertex limit, increase statics limit and relocate target buffer and extended tomb4 size. And now my level plays also fine including triggering enemies.

That might explain why level 2 plays fine and 1 doesn't.

snork
04-04-08, 00:03
Pardon me but perhaps some more explanation would be grateful.

PS edit: and I wonder if you even read the entire post. Sounds like not.

:mad: Wow - I must say now I almost regret having answered you on trle-community.net.

Not only do you not read other peoples posts (EssGee and stranger1992 already told you on larashome) but prefer to crosspost the same all over trle forums of the world and then you get unfriendly with folks trying to point out the obvious mistake of yours.

I no more care if your levels crash or whatever, hop on ignore list. :mad:

Yasin
04-04-08, 06:31
Unfriendly ?!

There is a difference in explaining why it is my mistake instead of *bam* posting the mistake. I would like to learn and understand why where and what excactly went wrong. How would you like it if people post to your problem something which does not makes sence to you cause you simply do not understand it.

And the crossposting does not mean I do not read them. That is utter noncense, you are missjudging rapidly and acting childish with "hop on ignore list" very adult behaviour. Maybe read at trle.net first cause I posted a respond there.

Yasin
05-04-08, 12:17
Just to update here aswell.

Problem solved. It was a combination problem after concluding from peoples posts. I was using wrong files + reached a limit with my level.

To solve it I ticked the extend statics, vertex, enemy, relocate buffer boxes. Level 1 boots up now like a charm and everything works perfectly fine.

Reaching a limit is obviously the 2nd reason cause:
- Even with or without the old NGLE, level 1 still crashed while 2 and 3 were fine
- Tomb4logger pointed out a "Out of memory" message during crash
- Explains also when I cut out large part of my level it didn't crash anymore.

Thanks to all the people who tried to help/helped. Case closed.