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View Full Version : Invisible objects to turn visable without triggering their animation.


jeffrey van oort
03-05-08, 00:22
I know how to make an object invisible. You can do this simply by clicking "o" whilst selecting an object and click the Invisible button.
However I do not know how you can turn them visible again without actually triggering the animation. I am guessing it has something to do with the 1 - 5 buttons.
Perhaps someone that has more knowledge of this can help?

To describe the actual situation,
I have a switch that I made invisible with the invisible button, then I have a keyhole and when Lara inserts the key I want that switch to become visible on the other side. can this be done?

(PROBLEM SOLVED)

aktrekker
03-05-08, 07:19
Is the switch really invisible when you play? I'm surprised that works on a switch.
I'm pretty sure you can't trigger a switch, but I could be wrong. You can try to make a trigger for the switch and turn on all the OCB buttons. It might work. I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I always wondered if it is possible.

Fluen
03-05-08, 09:06
I'm pretty certain it can be done. Magplus did it several times in The Rescue. Lara had to move pushables into place before some jumpswitches appeared. But I don't know if it only works with jumpswitches.

Compass
03-05-08, 09:41
I guess it doesn't, maybe skribblerz has a tutorial?

Daoine Sidhe
03-05-08, 12:51
It is possible to make a leverswitch visible after invisible status.
In my Holy Grail level there is a leverswitch, which will be visible after Lara has picked up the first artefact. It is this type of switch:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2793/leverpz2.gif

I've made the switch invisible.
A flyby camera will trigger the switch to the visible status. But be warned:
Don't use one shot to make the switch visible. If you do so, then Lara activates the triggers by stepping on the square without using the switch.

jeffrey van oort
03-05-08, 13:22
It is possible to make a leverswitch visible after invisible status.
In my Holy Grail level there is a leverswitch, which will be visible after Lara has picked up the first artefact. It is this type of switch:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2793/leverpz2.gif

I've made the switch invisible.
A flyby camera will trigger the switch to the visible status. But be warned:
Don't use one shot to make the switch visible. If you do so, then Lara activates the triggers by stepping on the square without using the switch.

What buttons do you need to press to only make it visable but not activate the switch it's animations?

Xico15
03-05-08, 17:49
I know how to make an object invisible. You can do this simply by clicking "o" whilst selecting an object and click the Invisible button.
However I do not know how you can turn them visible again without actually triggering the animation. I am guessing it has something to do with the 1 - 5 buttons.
Perhaps someone that has more knowledge of this can help?

To describe the actual situation,
I have a switch that I made invisible with the invisible button, then I have a keyhole and when Lara inserts the key I want that switch to become visible on the other side. can this be done?

Maybe you can use flipmap!:D

Daoine Sidhe
03-05-08, 18:17
What buttons do you need to press to only make it visable but not activate the switch it's animations?
You have to place your switch and open its OCB window and click on the invisible button.

To make the switch visible, trigger it with whatever you like (rollingball, flyby, key). I suggest you, not to use Lara to make it visible by walking over any square.
And as I wrote before, don't use the one shot button in the trigger which makes the switch visible.
Thats all.

EDIT:
You wrote, that you use a key to make your switch visible:

Place your keyhole object anywhere.
On the same square place a key for your keyhole trigger - don't use one shot here.
And on the same square again, place a trigger for your invisible switch.

This should work.

jeffrey van oort
03-05-08, 20:26
You have to place your switch and open its OCB window and click on the invisible button.

To make the switch visible, trigger it with whatever you like (rollingball, flyby, key). I suggest you, not to use Lara to make it visible by walking over any square.
And as I wrote before, don't use the one shot button in the trigger which makes the switch visible.
Thats all.

EDIT:
You wrote, that you use a key to make your switch visible:

Place your keyhole object anywhere.
On the same square place a key for your keyhole trigger - don't use one shot here.
And on the same square again, place a trigger for your invisible switch.

This should work.

I did exactly this.. It did not work (I have 6 in the obc and I used TREP to make the 1-6 switches available)
I'm going to try a different approach I'll be back with results from that soon. I am considering the flyby.. how can you get this to work? must you place a heavy trigger and how can you activate this?

Maybe you can use flipmap!:D
You can't. the switch does not change it's state.

*EDIT*
I created a custom flipeffect to trigger the switch animation and it works like a charm:D !! :D
I also managed to make all switches available that were ever in TombRaider:D lol :D
I love TREP :D it's a wonderful tool also Wadmerger helped me a lot. I now understand the animations of Lara much more and I also understand now why Titak said that it all comes back to animation 11 :D
When you have a custom animation the next animation must be 11 otherwise you could have a constant loop of the same animations:D
Is it possible to add custom sounds into the Wadmerger Animation editor?

Daoine Sidhe
04-05-08, 08:22
I did exactly this.. It did not work (I have 6 in the obc and I used TREP to make the 1-6 switches available)
I'm going to try a different approach I'll be back with results from that soon.

I have nothing entered in the OCB, and I didn't used TREP for this level - the tool wasn't released yet.
I am considering the flyby.. how can you get this to work? must you place a heavy trigger and how can you activate this?
If you use a cam, you have to open the OCB for the cam and click on its bit 14. The you place a heavy trigger for (your invisible) switch (without one shot) underneath this camera (same square). Be sure it isn't the last cam in the sequence, or you will not see the switch approach.

But as I can see, you have a solution now with TREP.

jeffrey van oort
04-05-08, 10:16
I have nothing entered in the OCB, and I didn't used TREP for this level - the tool wasn't released yet.

If you use a cam, you have to open the OCB for the cam and click on its bit 14. The you place a heavy trigger for (your invisible) switch (without one shot) underneath this camera (same square). Be sure it isn't the last cam in the sequence, or you will not see the switch approach.

But as I can see, you have a solution now with TREP.

Thank you very much for your help :) I am very happy now with the result as there is something goodlooking coming forward from this.
I recreated the tr5 valvepuzzle&switch for my sewer level from tenderfoot :D I had to add a custom animation into Lara's animation slot but now I am really happy with the results. Also I will use your approach to trigger things with a camera :D Thank you very much.

Fluen
06-05-08, 12:44
I see I'm behind events here.

But thanks to this question I went home and did several experiments with different kinds of switches in the old editor (no patches and no NGLE).

I learned that only some switches work when they have been invisible and then triggered visible (ok, jeg used a pad-trigger as Daoine Sidhe warns against).

My results:
- reach in a hole switch - doesn't work, but Lara can still pick objects up from it
- common small wall switch (handle Lara presses down) - doesn't work
- pushbutton (the one from Temple of Karnak, but I suspect big the one from Catacombs acts the same way) - doesn't work
- lever switch - works
- jump switch - works
- shootable switches (switch type 7 and 8) - work
- cog wheel switch - works, but Lara froze on the pad trigger for it and slid across it (no problems if it was triggered with another switch)
- underwater switch 1 (the wall handle from TR2 and TR3) - doesn't work
- underwater switch 2 (the one located in the ceiling) - works
- the pulley - this one is special because it remains visible, but Lara says "no" when the player tries to use it. It can't be triggered "visible" as the others. It takes the complex setup with turnhandles, rotating obelisks and hammers to make this one work. I haven't tried that but rely on the information Ukraider has gathered.

I also learned that the difference between switch type 7 and 8 is that switch type 7 shatters when shot while switch type 8 doesn't (I accidentially placed the bronze ball from The Lost Library and the blue ball from City of the Dead in the wrong slots and had a shatterable bronze ball and a very solid blue ball).
The only problem with these two switches is that they played their animation when triggered as Jeffrey tried to avoid. But they still worked as switches when I shot at them.

jeffrey van oort
06-05-08, 13:14
I see I'm behind events here.

But thanks to this question I went home and did several experiments with different kinds of switches in the old editor (no patches and no NGLE).

I learned that only some switches work when they have been invisible and then triggered visible (ok, jeg used a pad-trigger as Daoine Sidhe warns against).

My results:
- reach in a hole switch - doesn't work, but Lara can still pick objects up from it
- common small wall switch (handle Lara presses down) - doesn't work
- pushbutton (the one from Temple of Karnak, but I suspect big the one from Catacombs acts the same way) - doesn't work
- lever switch - works
- jump switch - works
- shootable switches (switch type 7 and 8) - work
- cog wheel switch - works, but Lara froze on the pad trigger for it and slid across it (no problems if it was triggered with another switch)
- underwater switch 1 (the wall handle from TR2 and TR3) - doesn't work
- underwater switch 2 (the one located in the ceiling) - works
- the pulley - this one is special because it remains visible, but Lara says "no" when the player tries to use it. It can't be triggered "visible" as the others. It takes the complex setup with turnhandles, rotating obelisks and hammers to make this one work. I haven't tried that but rely on the information Ukraider has gathered.

I also learned that the difference between switch type 7 and 8 is that switch type 7 shatters when shot while switch type 8 doesn't (I accidentially placed the bronze ball from The Lost Library and the blue ball from City of the Dead in the wrong slots and had a shatterable bronze ball and a very solid blue ball).
The only problem with these two switches is that they played their animation when triggered as Jeffrey tried to avoid. But they still worked as switches when I shot at them.

Thank you for this very useful information as I had not had time to test this out myself.
Did you test the valvewheel switch yourself too?
I have and I recreated the puzzle from the second level of Rome (TRC) :D I will show a screenshot when I figure out why wadmerger is not ripping any objects from TRC anymore..
Thank you again for your efforts.

Fluen
06-05-08, 13:23
No, I didn't try that one. I didn't try the very small button from TR3 or the small electrical wall switch from TR3 either. Maybe I should.

You can find all objects from TR5 at Ukraider's site here:
http://www.laras-workshop.co.uk/Tr5/tr5.htm (http://www.laras-)

I look forward to see what you have achieved.

jeffrey van oort
06-05-08, 22:24
No, I didn't try that one. I didn't try the very small button from TR3 or the small electrical wall switch from TR3 either. Maybe I should.

You can find all objects from TR5 at Ukraider's site here:
http://www.laras-workshop.co.uk/Tr5/tr5.htm (http://www.laras-)

I look forward to see what you have achieved.

I am dying to put some screenshots of my achievements on the internet, however I must keep them a secret until my tenderfoot levelpack is completely finished.
I really want to thank Titia because so far she has been more than just a help but also a friend. ;) She gave me wonderful ideas and taught me how to be creative. :D In all my creativity I am working on a new switch.. one that never has been in TombRaider before.
Thanks to TREP I can build one extra. (I am thinking of touching the ground :D) I have yet to create this, but first I wish to concentrate on texturing my level. :D :hug:

Fluen
10-05-08, 09:53
I tried out the switches:

From TR3:
Small push button - doesn't work
Small electrical wall switch - doesn't work

From TR4:
Crowbar switch - works

From TR5:
Valve switch - doesn't work

To me it seems that switches placed at a wall requiring the usual action (Lara doing an animation and that's all) don't work if they've been invisible. Those are the slots switch0-6 and underwater switch1.

The swithches placed in the center of the block (cog switch, lever switch, crowbar switch, underwater switch2 - the one in the ceiling) and the switches demanding a special action (the jump switch and the shootable switches - switch7-8) do work.

As already mentioned the pulley is very special.
I haven't tried the sequence switches either as they are equally special.

jeffrey van oort
10-05-08, 10:22
I tried out the switches:

From TR3:
Small push button - doesn't work
Small electrical wall switch - doesn't work

From TR4:
Crowbar switch - works

From TR5:
Valve switch - doesn't work

To me it seems that switches placed at a wall requiring the usual action (Lara doing an animation and that's all) don't work if they've been invisible. Those are the slots switch0-6 and underwater switch1.

The swithches placed in the center of the block (cog switch, lever switch, crowbar switch, underwater switch2 - the one in the ceiling) and the switches demanding a special action (the jump switch and the shootable switches - switch7-8) do work.

As already mentioned the pulley is very special.
I haven't tried the sequence switches either as they are equally special.

Thanks fluen:D now I know what I can expect as I will use both underwater switches in the sewer level.
You have my word that it will be a long level ;)

Fluen
10-05-08, 10:37
As long as it's good. ;)

jeffrey van oort
10-05-08, 10:50
As long as it's good. ;)

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3146/valveswitchfy5.th.jpg (http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=valveswitchfy5.jpg)
I do have one question.
I wanted to add my custom sound to her animation.. But for some reason it does not really work. I do hear some sound but it not the one I replaced.. Why is that?

Fluen
21-05-08, 16:21
How did you replace it? Did you overwrite the sound-file (after taking backups)?

jeffrey van oort
21-05-08, 17:48
How did you replace it? Did you overwrite the sound-file (after taking backups)?

I used the animation editor to add sounds in a specfic frame.

Fluen
22-05-08, 15:34
Is the sound ticked in sound manager?

Is the sound one that already exists in the original samples-folder?

jeffrey van oort
22-05-08, 15:54
Is the sound ticked in sound manager?

Is the sound one that already exists in the original samples-folder?

Yes on both of the questions.
I did replace the sound with an other sound.
And I replaced a sound that was used by a baddy that I don't use in my level and I added it in the animation with the animation editor. it works like a charm.
Be sure to change the settings of the sound in soundmanager.
It sounds different if you change it.

Fluen
22-05-08, 16:54
So the sound is already heard in game if you use the baddy?

In that case keep him in the wad. If you delete him his sounds go as well (at least untill you found a way to connect his sounds with your new object).

jeffrey van oort
22-05-08, 17:24
So the sound is already heard in game if you use the baddy?

In that case keep him in the wad. If you delete him his sounds go as well (at least untill you found a way to connect his sounds with your new object).

I don't use that baddy slot in my levels.
So I would hear it if that would have been the case.
it works perfectly fine.:D

Fluen
24-05-08, 09:04
Let me see if I get this right:

You wanted to assign a sound to Lara. You overwrote a sound used by a baddy and he plays the custom sound perfectly?

But for some reason Lara doesn't? In the same level?

If this is the case I out of ideas.
I have sometimes experienced that WadMerger for some reason doesn's copy all sounds from an object when it copies the object (the motorbike had its hitting something sounds but none of the engine sounds). So if your baddy works in another level and you copied him into the wad where Lara is supposed to use his sound you might have to delete and add him again. I've become good at using sounds.txt to work around this problem but it's one hell of a work.

jeffrey van oort
24-05-08, 11:04
Let me see if I get this right:

You wanted to assign a sound to Lara. You overwrote a sound used by a baddy and he plays the custom sound perfectly?

But for some reason Lara doesn't? In the same level?

If this is the case I out of ideas.
I have sometimes experienced that WadMerger for some reason doesn's copy all sounds from an object when it copies the object (the motorbike had its hitting something sounds but none of the engine sounds). So if your baddy works in another level and you copied him into the wad where Lara is supposed to use his sound you might have to delete and add him again. I've become good at using sounds.txt to work around this problem but it's one hell of a work.
Actually you are correct but it does works perfectly fine now.
The reason it did not work is because I had not updated the sfx batch file.
;)

Fluen
28-05-08, 16:43
Well, first rule when changing something in the WAD is: output the wad again in the editor. May save loads of work looking for an error that isn't there. :p