View Full Version : No self control - Lord of the Rings

John Falstaff
02-09-03, 16:00
Hi Everyone,


The cinema DVD version of LOTR:TTT has been out a while now. But I'm a big fan and wanted to wait for the extended version (I wanted those extra minutes), which I'd pre-ordered.

However, yesterday (despite my firm resolution) I walked into the supermarket, and there it was - a huge display of (the shorter version) of the TT. Could I resist - could I heck. Zombie like I pick it up (a copy not the whole display) and stagger over to the counter to hand over my 30. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

I still wanted the longer version http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif but that's the price of no self control. I don't want it anymore. I was so dissapointed in TTT. :( http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yuck.gif :(

I'll bet I'm not the only one whose been let down by impulse buying - am I? :(

02-09-03, 16:09
How were you disappointed by TTT??? :confused:

John Falstaff
02-09-03, 16:39
Hi universaldave,


I don't mind the film(s) deviating from the book(s) to some extent. (They are different media afterall.) For example in TFOTR the whole Tom Bombidal episode was missed out. But when you think about it that episode didn't really drive the overall story forward - so if they feel they had to leave it out of the film, fair enough.

However, in the TT there were a number of, I felt, un-necessary additions to the plot.

a) The pseudo-death of Aragorn, even the Bible only has so many resurrections!

b) Elrond is portrayed as despairing and about to flee Middle Earth, leaving it to its fate. However, on the intervention of Galadriel he changes his mind and as a result a mysterious Elf army arrives out of nowhere to defend Helms Deep.

c) In the film the Ents decide to stick their heads in the sand and ignore what's going on and it's only when the Hobbits trick Treebeard into seeing Saruman's devestation (which he knew about anyway) that the ents decide to act.

d) In the film when Faramir captures Frodo and Sam, and learns about the ring, he tries to take them to Gondor so that the ring can be used by Gondor in its war with Sauron. But in the book he shows greater wisedom and strength of character than his brother, and tries no such thing.

It's not that any one these things is too hard to take. But there are too many changes to the plot and there seems to be a pattern to these changes which alter the 'feel' of the nature of the free people's resistence to Sauron and thus, to my mind, altering the feel of the whole narrative. :(

02-09-03, 16:59
Hi John! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

It's has been several years since I've read the books, so a couple of those things I didn't remember. The pseudo-death of Aragorn was a little corny, but no big deal I thought. It was unnecessary, I agree. The Elf army showing up at Helms Deep was a big change. If I recall, in the books, the Elves were leaving and that was that. They had nothing to do with the war and certainly didn't send an army to Helms Deep, so that was a complete addition to the story. Cinematically though, I thought it was good, and I'm not sure it changed anything meaningful in the story, except that those who never read the books won't think the Elves to be cold and uncaring towards those they leave behind. The Entmoot did bother me, as its outcome seemed contrived in order to give Merry and Pippin something to do! It also didn't make sense within the film itself because, as you said, the Ents were aware of what had been going on before Merry and Pippin tricked them into seeing it again. That part just didn't work right. As for Faramir, I can only surmise that PJ is using every opportunity to show the power the ring has over people within the condensed nature of the films.
Perhaps you are right, because I've overlooked these changes individually as well but I haven't noticed the films feeling "wrong" as a result. The big themes all still come through and the characters are wonderfully portrayed, IMO. I am anxious to see the extended version just to see if PJ explains his reasoning behind some of these changes! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

02-09-03, 20:15
Because I'm a boring old fart and devotee of the books going back to my bare knee days then I have a view (as you would expect from someone who moans a lot!). I love the visual splendour of the film. I love the music (except Enya). I like some of the acting. BUT, overall, I hate the films. The first one I could forgive some of the deviation. The second, it's like no way, and the third? I've heard some things that would make Fangorn's beard curl (no spoilers).

My biggest fume is at the apparent love story between Aragorn and Arwen. What have they done? And her apparently being sent to the Gray Havens. Elrond is half elven, no-one more then he understands the fate of his daughter. However, he gives his blessing. :mad:

The whole episode with Faramir was nonsensical. His character was diametrically opposite to that of his brother. There was no temptation. Faramir was nobler of spirit and while empathetic to his brother's temptation recognised that it was not for him. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/pillow.gif

Blimey, I can rant on all night but won't. Peter Green was hailed as a maestro in bringing the book to life however, in my opinion, he has not succeeded. He could have remained truer to the story then he has chosen too as the timkering has been unnecessary. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/violent.gif

One further point, I did read that Tolkein's estate were trying to distance themselves from the project. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/shout.gif

Tom Bombadil and his Goldberry should have their own film. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

Lady LC
02-09-03, 20:46
Hi, I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan!
i have the video of TTT right now, and I'm going to get the 4 disc DVD in November too- I just couldn't wait!

John Falstaff
02-09-03, 21:08
Hi universaldave and tippucat,


Yes cinema requires some changes from the book eg: the bit befrore the black gates where Sam slides down the hill, Frodo helps him and they both, just, escape detection. That sort of change I have no problem with.

Also the (High) elves were not simply abandoning Middle Earth in the book. Their last domains (Rivendell and Lorien) had been preserved and protected by the elven rings Elrond and Galadriel wore (the third was finaly with Gandalf). Some believed that the elven rings could continue to work good once the one ring was destroyed. Others knew that once Sauron's ring was destroyed that the power of the eleven rings would fail and that the high elves would be faced with the choice of leaving middle-earth to Valar in the west or becoming a 'rustic' people - fading away in the age of men. :(

But that was the nobility of their decision. To help destroy the one ring for the sake of the future of middle earth, whatever the bitter cost to themselves. They were taking responsibility for their past dealings with Sauron!

The film represented Elrond as unfeeling (vis a vis Arwen and Aragon) and as being defeatist or perhaps even a coward. (Cowardice and defeatism are MY perogative, Signed Sir John Falstaff. ;) )

If you read the various appendices of LOTR you'll see that the Elves (high and wood) and dwarves played their roles, albeit away from the main narrative of the characters of the fellowship.

Tippucat:- 'Tolkienites' know that Elrond, no one more, knew of the consequences of love between elves and man. But I supose that's 'specialist' knowledge.

I think the director had a hard task walking the line between book and film and between the need to please a general public and diehard fans and a general public. I feel he succeeded well in the first film. In the second I feel he failed - making to many, and un-necessary changes. I'm afraid the TT has left something of a bitter taste for me. :( :(

On a lighter note: has anyone read the old satire of LOTR by Harvard Lampoon. It was called 'Bored of the Rings' and, I found, very, very funny.


02-09-03, 21:17
Perhaps they could make series a out of Gollum? He was very well done! Forgot to mention that in my previous post.

Alas, Sir J, been aware of BOTR but never seen it to read.

Are you aware of 'Entmoot'-forum website? You will be awestruck at THEIR knowledge and they speak Elvish!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/silent.gif