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View Full Version : CD Seems to have strange ideas as to what Non-Linear means.


Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 21:25
Crystal Dynamics seems to be under the impression that have two paths makes a game non-linear. However, I disagree! Especially if the two paths have clearly laid out route in which you jump from pole to pole to get to your end objective.

The reality is a non linear game gives the player the option of completing several tasks in different orders. Lara should be able to move around the world FREELY including backtracking and hidden paths. I miss getting lost.

Ward Dragon
21-08-08, 21:31
The reality is a non linear game gives the player the option of completing several tasks in different orders. Lara should be able to move around the world FREELY including backtracking and hidden paths. I miss getting lost.

They've said that Underworld has that. I guess we won't know for sure until the demo, though, since it would be pretty hard to show that in a few minutes worth of gameplay footage.

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 21:33
Well the entire video consisted of people ledge jumping. but you may be right.

Kittypower
21-08-08, 21:33
enough already:mad:

Anarae
21-08-08, 21:37
The thread title made me laugh in a good way.

We've only been shown a little and it does appear to be quite linear. On the other hand, we haven't seen enough to start making judgements on the linear aspect. The methods we are being shown are being played by players who are taking one route. There may be other ways to get where we need to go (such as wall-climbing, grappling, platforms, ladders, etc.) but we can't see that in the video because the players aren't fully exploring their surroundings.

Give it a chance, and reserve your judgement until you get a good look. When we see a good chunk of the level or play the demo for ourselves, then we can make calls.

just*raidin*tomb
21-08-08, 21:37
Alot of gamers don't like getting lost. And CD can't survive on us alone.

Quasimodo
21-08-08, 21:40
Crystal Dynamics seems to be under the impression that have two paths makes a game non-linear. However, I disagree! Especially if the two paths have clearly laid out route in which you jump from pole to pole to get to your end objective.

The reality is a non linear game gives the player the option of completing several tasks in different orders. Lara should be able to move around the world FREELY including backtracking and hidden paths. I miss getting lost.

To be fair we haven't even seen any puzzle action yet - maybe that's where the non-linearity comes in. But yeah, what we've seen so far looks like more of the same, a few pretty 'arenas' connected by long, repetitive corridors. There has to be some place they can put traps other than a corridor, like hidden in front of a pickup or relic. The crumbling floor from TRA was a good start.

AshesBorn
21-08-08, 21:41
Guys! I just noticed! There is another way to go. It is shown in the video but I didn't noticed it at the first time.
I guess by going forward you'll get to the same platform with the tigers, and by turning right you will get.... hm... somewhere else.

http://i36.************/wgqq7o.gif

http://i34.************/1239yiv.gif

MoonSword
21-08-08, 21:45
Alot of gamers don't like getting lost. And CD can't survive on us alone.

I clearly don't, like many TR fans. If the game can be summarized by only a sequence of battles and action, then it'd miss something.

TR IS exploration. Therefore, TR IS getting lost and spending time finding a (and not the :D) way out. This is no loss of time, this is the soul of TR, IMO.

Larapink
21-08-08, 21:45
You know what it's already been confirmed that you can compleate levels any way you want. There is no set path. ;)

Tomb Raider Jay
21-08-08, 21:46
Crystal Dynamics seems to be under the impression that have two paths makes a game non-linear. However, I disagree! Especially if the two paths have clearly laid out route in which you jump from pole to pole to get to your end objective.

The reality is a non linear game gives the player the option of completing several tasks in different orders. Lara should be able to move around the world FREELY including backtracking and hidden paths. I miss getting lost.

Well said, sadly I fear it's about six months too late for these major changes to the game design but ah well the enviro's might not be totally non-linear but they sure are pretty to look at :yik: :jmp:

Maybe other stages will be more, explorable? maybe? :confused:

Borges
21-08-08, 21:54
We've only been shown a little and it does appear to be quite linear. On the other hand, we haven't seen enough to start making judgements on the linear aspect. The methods we are being shown are being played by players who are taking one route. There may be other ways to get where we need to go (such as wall-climbing, grappling, platforms, ladders, etc.) but we can't see that in the video because the players aren't fully exploring their surroundings.

Give it a chance, and reserve your judgement until you get a good look. When we see a good chunk of the level or play the demo for ourselves, then we can make calls.

Exactly.

dream raider
21-08-08, 21:56
How can a gameplay video showcase more than one path!? :confused:

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 21:57
The fact that we saw 10 videos and they all went the same path.

Quasimodo
21-08-08, 21:58
How can a gameplay video showcase more than one path!? :confused:

They could show the game reloading from the last checkpoint and choose another path instead?

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 21:58
But having the one path isn't even the core of the problem. It's that the one path was such and obviously laid out one.

Dakaruch
21-08-08, 21:59
You have seen a player doing pretty much a speed run on the level, and you say that it is linear? The levels are huge, and do appear to have more than one route to the same objective.
I find it strange how everyone starts to make such assumptions, when what we've seen probably is less than a quarter of the level.
Until we get a demo we can't know for sure. Or until we get a gameplay video that is bigger than 10 minutes. If you want to see the linearity or not, of the level, you would need of at least 30 minutes of gameplay footage i guess...

Sir Croft
21-08-08, 22:00
The fact that we saw 10 videos and they all went the same path.

Because it was a demo, and demos are limited.

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 22:01
you know, I would LOVE to record a video of a newbie playing through the Coastal Village demo in Tomb Raider 3 and then this one. We'll then get a clear idea of what I mean.

Lenochka
21-08-08, 22:02
The fact that we saw 10 videos and they all went the same path.

Well I remember them saying something about the demo being heavily edited down in certain aspects due to it only being a demo. Maybe they wanted to set up one specific path for the demo, or maybe had the demo in mind while setting up that area of that level, I mean... who knows. I will go by what I have read various times from people who actually played the game themselves before coming to the conclusion on if they were over exaggerating this multi-path feature. All I can tell you and anyone else, is try to have some faith and wait for more proof. (We have only seen a tiny bit of one location, maybe the whole multi-path things opens up later on in the level.)

Azerutan
21-08-08, 22:04
I miss getting lost.

I bet if you get lost, you are going to complain here too ;)

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 22:07
Nope, that's what walkthroughs are for. I have never had to use a walk through since AOD

Dakaruch
21-08-08, 22:07
What i'm saying is that you can see many areas that were not explored in the demo footage we got.
So it is normal that they put many restrictions on it.
Besides this seems to be more a beta-stage demo, than a fully developed demo.
Don't you think that they made this demo somewhat in a rush to present it at the Leipzig games convention?
I remember that some months ago every magazine was referring to the Underpus, and how that played that part of the game. This isn't the same part of the game, therefore, they might have made several demos while they were making the game. It is still a work in progress, and we can't know for sure until we get the demo of the final version of the game! ;)

Achilles_DS
21-08-08, 22:10
I'm not basing it purely on this particular demo. CD has a track record of saying "Non Linear". And I have never seen more hallways in a game than I did in Anniversary, granted some were used in place of loading screens but god. Even this demo had a network of caves.

AshesBorn
21-08-08, 22:15
Guys! I just noticed! There is another way to go. It is shown in the video but I didn't noticed it at the first time.
I guess by going forward you'll get to the same platform with the tigers, and by turning right you will get.... hm... somewhere else.

http://i36.************/wgqq7o.gif

http://i34.************/1239yiv.gif

Done...

AnthonyShock1515
21-08-08, 22:16
enough already:mad:

Why?

If nobody complained then we would be left with a pretty rubbish game. Feedback is very important for the game, it will let the developers know what their consumers expect in the game.

I know it can be annoying and some people can be quite forceful of their points but they shouldn't be silenced altogether.

I actually agree with the thread-maker kinda. From what I've seen in the videos of Thailand, there is really only one route through the whole game. I know many of you are going to reply to this by saying "It's Beta, stop complaining!", but why are they advertizing their unfinished work? If they wanna show it off they should have made apparent in the demo that the gameplay is linear. In Anniversary we were told that we can expect non-linear gameplay. It was so, in the demo level (Lost Valley) by a few minor alternate routes, but the rest of the game lacked it. It made me realize that they used the demo level as a veil to lead us on to believeing that all the levels were like that.:o

As much as I think the game looks absoloutely amazing, CD should really show us that they can put their words into practice!

Anarae
21-08-08, 22:27
I bet if you get lost, you are going to complain here too ;)

No, they'll go to Stella's site and read the walkthrough. ;)