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View Full Version : Seeking Advice (from Muslims only please, if possible)


Tombcool
22-08-08, 01:50
I personally asked one of the mods if I could bring this to the forum and he granted me permission. I would also ask if only the Muslims of the forum could help me, as I am still confused on what to do.

The story...

I recently came "out of the closet" (not my decision though, you'll see later). But my life has recently been rather chaotic, i've been in a fight with family, other Muslims, and specifically guys at school (girls don't seem to mind, I can sort-of understand that).

Anyways, I really didn't want to bring my life problems onto this forum, or online for that matter, but I don't feel like I have a choice (continue to read).

The first person I came out to was my school counselor. She asked me awhile ago if some of the money the diversity committee (which I run at my school) had would go towards supporting a pride walk. Long story short, the committee voted "no", and she was angry (and I thought she would let it go). Anyways, after I told her, she was all cool about it and stuff like that, and promised to set me up with contacts for help. But she was just really two-faced. She went onto Facebook, and created a note and made it viewable to my school's network telling everyone my secret. That's when things went down-hill, and the school's adminstrators weren't quick enough to force her to remove the note and everyone eventually found out. I am glad she was fired though.

From that point on, i've had preppy guys call me names, and/or pull pranks on me (which I really don't feel like describing, as they are really embarrassing). Whenever I would go to the Mosque, no one there would talk to me, and no one offered to help me.

Then comes family, which was the worst. Let's just say my mom was so furious she paid a lot of money to get me a psychiatrist and some good therapy. But my psychiatrist, me, and practically everyone else (except for my religious family) knows that I am not going to change. So me and my psychiatrist laughed it up, and I talked to him about other stuff.

ALL of my guys friends have stopped talking me, and have joined the guys who were making fun of me. I still have all of my girl friends though. My two best friends (both girls) have been backing me up ever since, and I really appreciate them for doing that.

I also feel bad because I used to be one of those guys that made fun of gays because my mom brain-washed me into thinking it was a satanic thing and was a choice made by non-believers. But after a lot of research I did over the past two years (and of course, experience), and no, that's not true, there is no choice. If I had the choice, I would never choose to be gay. Never. I want the traditional family (a wife, and some kids), but how am I suppose to gain that if have no feelings towards girls? If I can never fall in love with girl, more specifically?

Here comes the religious part (which I got from researching)...

The thing is with the Islamic community in my town and the people ridiculing me that they don't get is that homosexuality in itself is not wrong, that is like saying retardation is wrong (which is absolutely absurd). However, it is engaging in the homosexual acts (which isn't clear, i'm assuming just sodomy/intercourse?) which is wrong. Many people think that one cannot submit totally to Allah if they are gay, but that is not true, one can submit totally.

I would think homosexuality would be the ultimate test for someone born that way. Since this life is but a test to see if we are worthy to see Allah (God) and achieve Heaven, i'm assuming gay Muslims must not be involved with any homosexual intercourse throughout their whole lives. Saying that, it will be extremely challenging (I know, I have recently fallen in love with a guy) , but I think those who successfully complete their life in this way will be greatly rewarded accordingly. The more difficult the test, the larger the reward if they overcome it. Right? Only the individual (and God of course) knows how difficult their test is. Everyone has their major and minor tests in life (I think this is pretty obvious).

In conclusion, I think if one truly believes in Islam, being gay does not magically turn him or her into an Atheist.

But did I do the research properly? All this information I collected was from Islamic sites and other online resources. It would be greatly appreciated if other Muslims could verify and/or edit some information.

amiro1989
22-08-08, 02:12
Hey mate, congratulations for your coming-out! :D

Well, my parents are indeed muslims, so I understand your situation. You say that you'd love to remain muslim, even if you're gay, well it's not a problem. It's your choice, and the fact, that you know that you still believe in Allah, is good, at least for you (I mean because you want to remain muslim). I think the part where you mention homosexuality as being a sin, is absolutely true (I mean in the Quran, like in the Bible...), but if you want to remain muslim, well just don't change a thing. I don't understand why gay muslims couldn't believe in Allah? I guess it's a choice (religion, that is).

Like I said, I'm not muslim, and I do have bisexual tendancies, and I don't think people should judge you, whether you're gay or not. Just be proud to be what you're, and always keep your head high. Don't care about how people react in the Mosque, or in school. Just show them that you're proud of being who you are, and what you are. That way, nobody will ever get on your nerves again, on that subject.

Stay strong, and please tell your mother that homosexuality is not a decease. Explain to her that it's genetic (it's either her or your father who gave you that gene... ;) )

Plus, don't say those things, that you wouldn't like to be homosexual if you had the choice. Just be proud of yourself. :hug:

Lara's Backpack
22-08-08, 07:53
Hey mate, congratulations for your coming-out! :D

Well, my parents are indeed muslims, so I understand your situation. You say that you'd love to remain muslim, even if you're gay, well it's not a problem. It's your choice, and the fact, that you know that you still believe in Allah, is good, at least for you (I mean because you want to remain muslim). I think the part where you mention homosexuality as being a sin, is absolutely true (I mean in the Quran, like in the Bible...), but if you want to remain muslim, well just don't change a thing. I don't understand why gay muslims couldn't believe in Allah? I guess it's a choice (religion, that is).

Like I said, I'm not muslim, and I do have bisexual tendancies, and I don't think people should judge you, whether you're gay or not. Just be proud to be what you're, and always keep your head high. Don't care about how people react in the Mosque, or in school. Just show them that you're proud of being who you are, and what you are. That way, nobody will ever get on your nerves again, on that subject.

Stay strong, and please tell your mother that homosexuality is not a decease. Explain to her that it's genetic (it's either her or your father who gave you that gene... ;) )

Plus, don't say those things, that you wouldn't like to be homosexual if you had the choice. Just be proud of yourself. :hug:

It can also be a psychological, I am bi myself, however I have been lately starting to think that I am just gay really...

Anyway, onto the topic of discussion. Really it was somewhat unnecessary for you to request that only Muslims replied in this thread, as your situation really can apply to almost any religion going these days.

You shouldnt need to be worrying about your sexuality and your religion and wether or not you need to choose one over the other. Your religion may be a choice, but your sexuality really isnt. You could choose to repress it, but whats the point? That would only make you unhappy.

You also mentioned that in Islam, being homosexual is not the sin, it is commiting homosexual acts that is wrong. I think this is a point you are going to need to overlook, because really the two go hand in hand.

Be strong, it will blow over eventually. Im willing to bet that your male friends joined the people abusing you simply because they didnt want anyone to think that they were gay aswell, which says alot about today's society and peoples insecurity about who they are, and especially so when it comes to their sexuality.

Good luck, everything will work itself out, eventually. :hug:

BTW, congradulations on falling inlove with a guy, it must be hard to accept that from your situation. Perhaps you've already found an island in the storm? ;)

Goose
22-08-08, 08:31
Well done for coming out, even if it was by mistake, your sticking with it rather then trying to lie about it.

Im not a Muslim, but that doesnt actually matter, it comes across as if your family are wrong about a couple of things. You started the thread by asking if only muslims could respond, im guessing you were bought up by your family to believe that Islam is an entirely seperate religion from Judaism and Christianity, its certainly not. If you read the Bible, you will notice that the Quran has more or less the same prophets, stories and morals (to a degree) as the Old testament, just with Muhammed added in, im closest Unitarian so its all relevant to me. If a guy on the TV told you being gay was wrong, would you believe him? I doubt it, so why believe your mother? She doesnt talk to God, and neither do i or anyone else (as far as i know). Homosexuality in the bible or Quran is meaningless, they were not written by God or anyone who could converse with him, so why treat it as such. Its open to interpritation, so read into it as you please, not as someone tells you.

Dark Lugia 2
22-08-08, 10:47
He asked for those who are muslim only because they have as much knowledge as him on the religion, but any other person can obviously post for help too, there are differences even though simmilarities, the gay thing is quite different in islam than in christianity or other religions :) (i'm sure most muslims are brought up with the knowledge that the three religions are simmilar anyway, it mentions it in the quran)

I think you've got it spot on toombcool, I havent got much knowledge of homosexuality in Islam apart from that it is a challenge like you said, you cant choose your sexuality but you can choose if your going to have intercourse like you said

good on you for coming out tho, whatever a persons sexuality is if others dislike it then your brave for coming out :tmb: and you must be very devout to want to keep in the boundries of islam with your sexuality, I admire such a commitment :) sorry I couldnt help much, what you have there looks right for the teachings though. Good luck in life ^.^

rickybazire
22-08-08, 10:49
Just for the record, I ain't a muslim, but I am a Christian.

Despite my parents being pretty much anti-gay and some of my friends, Christian and non-Christian, I don't find anything wrong with homosexuality.

My biggest piece of advice is to keep those girl friends of yours. They are definately the definition of a 'true friend'. Sticking with you when the going gets tough.

When I got someone in trouble for smoking in school, (I don't even know why I did it to be honest), loadsa people hated me for it. But my close friends stuck with me and it gave them confidence in things between the guy I got in trouble for was a 6ft7 beast. After a short while, things calmed down and people didn't really annoy me for it.

Just hang in there, be good friends to your girl friends, ignore what the other people are saying.

I'm afraid I can't give advice about the muslim issue, I don't know much about muslims.

EDIT: Didn't want to spam this thread. So to Archetpye's comment below, that is so true. They really are too juvenile to understand it all.

Archetype
22-08-08, 11:04
Most men are thick headed about homosexuality so, just ignore them as they're too juvenile to understand.

Catapharact
22-08-08, 13:52
Asalam-o-Aliakum Brother.

First off, I am going to start off with telling you that yes, it is indeed brave of you to come out when stereotypically, gays and Lesbians have been ostricized in both socially and emotionally from communities and it indeed is a sad thing. A community is as good as its members and how can a community fuction well when able bodied and able minded individuals are being neglected or ignored upon like that... Islam emphsizes the importance of the strength of the Umma (the society) and each member is a valuable asset to the community that can bring about enlightning change for the best and be a believer as well. Its anti-Islamic to think otherwise.

Bet this aspect of Islam isn't what you were taught now by your community huh Tombcool? And it saddens me that it wasn't.

There are support groups for Gays and Lesbian Muslims brother:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla3.htm

Have a look around. If you have anymore questions and you aren't comfortable posting them in public, PM me.

My Allah's kindness be upon you.

sadgirl
22-08-08, 14:28
hey tombcool im muslim i have read your post first of all i cant believe your counselor did that im glad she got fired!! even though im not gay i agree a lot with your religious reasoning. i while back i did a course on prayer and purification. there was a paragraph on how to purify yourself for prayer after a homosexual act(sex). my opinion is that yes it does say in the quran its a sin to sleep with someone of the same sex, but so is having sex before marriage, alcohol etc if you do any of these things your still a muslim and all through the quran it says sins are forgiven. i personally think dont worry about it just try your best your still muslim, as a muslim following the 5 pillars is whats more important and you being gay does not stop you from doing that.

im sorry about your community judging you, as muslims they forget religion is just between you and Allah and you should never judge others. you may be able to change some peoples views but i have realised that closeminded people will never listen to you or even try to change. i know its hard but you just have to ignore them at least you have a few friends you can trust.

i hope my post made sense good luck with evrything and if you ever want to talk just pm me.

Tombcool
22-08-08, 18:41
First of all, I didn't expect to see this much great support from people here. :hug: I have read all of your posts and taken a little from each. I do have a few questions though, and they are a bit embarrassing. :o

What do I do if I am confronted by a guy who likes me (and I like him back)? And he asks me out? Do I just tell him I am not interested? Is it haram for a gay Muslim to be in a relationship without having intercourse?

That is what confuses me, all the Islamic sites I have researched upon say it is haram to commit the act of sodomy, but it doesn't mention anything else. Is any act of homosexuality haram (even cuddling and kissing)?

My family still doesn't want to understand, even AFTER I tried writing a letter to them (as someone suggested). But it will hopefully blow over. Did I mention its really hard to have your brother call you a "fag" too. :(

@Catapharact, first, thanks brother for the info, and I learned something new (the strength of the Umma), didn't know that.

I really don't mind posting really personal messages on the forum, I know people here are respectful.

I took the time to look into the link you gave me sadly there are only about two links on that site that are still working. When I did further research into those two links, it talked about how past events could have sparked my homosexuality? Now here comes the really personal part...could being raped spark that?

I am going to be as open as possible with this as I am trying to get it all out of my system and get help. It was something that happened a few times by male cousins a few years ago (4-5 years) that has recently come up, and maybe I am starting to think they are the reason why I am the way I am today. I mean it wasn't my fault (obviously), but they did all the way. I mean all the way. Will I be punished for that though? I told my family about that too, but they didn't believe me and started freaking out that I was just trying to grab some attention. Maybe they were just in too much shock. It did blow over, and I didn't want to spend the time reporting it to the police because it happened in Egypt. But I regret not doing that because I still have to see them every other summer. I just want to know, would something like that cause me to become a homosexual? Someone also told me if I don't talk to someone professional (like my psychiatrist) about those events I would go insane, is this true? (I just want to hear it from a Muslim)

BTW, I really hope no one here is thinking I am posting this for attention, I am actually in dire need of the help.

rickybazire
22-08-08, 20:10
BTW, I really hope no one here is thinking I am posting this for attention, I am actually in dire need of the help.

About that thing to do with seeing a phychiatrist, hopefully that's for your parents to get their head seen to to understand that it is normal for you to be homosexual.

No-one here is thinking you're posting this for attention. We all want you to get through this safe and sound without any trouble or confusion and stuff.

I wish you all the best brother.

amiro1989
22-08-08, 21:38
OMG. Your post, gave me goosebumps. So you were raped by your cousins?

That's horrible. You should definately search for help. I know I can try to tell you some things, but, you shouldn't think that rape brings out homosexual tendancies. It doesn't (well, I don't know since, I didn't live that...), at least, I don't think so. Homosexuality is something written in your genetic code. You can't try to deny this part of you. It's who you are, and what you are. No matter what you do, you will remain homosexual, and don't be afraid of that. :hug:

Are your cousins much older than you? I think, they should have never done such things. I mean, it's horrible, just trying to picture this. I think you should try to confront them, and tell them, how you feel about that.... Just tell them, sometimes, it helps solving problems, just saying to someone how you feel, helps a lot. OMG. OMG. OMG.

And are you muslim because your parents are muslims, or you want to be a muslim? That's very very very important....

Tombcool
23-08-08, 02:18
@rickbazire, thank you very much. :D

------------------------------

@amiro1989, Simply, yes. :) (And I still haven't been to the doctor to check for anything, do you think I should? It did happen a few years ago.)

I really do think that those events did trigger some sort of homosexual tendencies, it did happen a few times, but I still don't know. And yes, they were a bit older than me at the time, actually I was 12 or something, and they were 18/19.

I don't have the bravery to confront them and talk to them about it. They are all about to get married, and this may sound really weird, but I would sort-of feel bad if their soon-to-be wives left them for what they did in those events.

BTW, I am indeed Muslim because I want to be a Muslim, not because my parents want me to be a Muslim.

------------------------------

It's not that I am afraid of being a homosexual, I am afraid of the outcome of falling in love with a guy who loves me back? That is what I am afraid of, because in a situation like that, I am assuming the attraction would be so great everything else would just disappear out of my mind (and then something "bad" would happen). I don't want that to happen, but at the same time, I do want to know what it feels like to be in a true and loving relationship with someone. But I know if I have to stay as a good Muslim, I cannot for my entire life, I mean, what guy out there wants to be in a relationship without intercourse? :p The best I could probably pull off is find a girl who really likes me, marry her, have kids, and make her happy. Close enough, I think?

I know, that sounded really cheesy and girl-y, but its how I honestly feel.

------------------------------

I am very worried by the amount of page views this topic has gotten, I don't want to sound rude, but if you have something to say, I would like to hear it (especially if you are Muslim or religious). :)

Goose
23-08-08, 06:44
I dont believe that what happened with your cousins decided your sexuality, infact it would normally have the exact opposite effect, to a serious or even violent degree as you get older. Unfortunatly sexual abuse isnt a one off thing, especially in countries where it may not be easily highlighted, infact one of the main reasons we have the age of consent as 16 in England is because of men abusing boys.

They cant wipe a human impulse out of your system, you were born the way you are. If you told your family back then that it happened, then dont be afraid to tell them again, its certainly somthing that needs to be dealt with.

"what guy out there wants to be in a relationship without intercourse"

Maybe another Muslim? If you find another muslim who shares your sexuality, they may have already figured out there place in Islam, and what they feel they can and cant do.

rickybazire
23-08-08, 09:12
@rickbazire, thank you very much. :D

@amiro1989, Simply, yes. :) (And I still haven't been to the doctor to check for anything, do you think I should? It did happen a few years ago.)

I really do think that those events did trigger some sort of homosexual tendencies, it did happen a few times, but I still don't know. And yes, they were a bit older than me at the time, actually I was 12 or something, and they were 18/19.

I don't have the bravery to confront them and talk to them about it. They are all about to get married, and this may sound really weird, but I would sort-of feel bad if their soon-to-be wives left them for what they did in those events.

BTW, I am indeed Muslim because I want to be a Muslim, not because my parents want me to be a Muslim.

------------------------------

It's not that I am afraid of being a homosexual, I am afraid of the outcome of falling in love with a guy who loves me back? That is what I am afraid of, because in a situation like that, I am assuming the attraction would be so great everything else would just disappear out of my mind (and then something "bad" would happen). I don't want that to happen, but at the same time, I do want to know what it feels like to be in a true and loving relationship with someone. But I know if I have to stay as a good Muslim, I cannot for my entire life, I mean, what guy out there wants to be in a relationship without intercourse? :p The best I could probably pull off is find a girl who really likes me, marry her, have kids, and make her happy. Close enough, I think?

I know, that sounded really cheesy and girl-y, but its how I honestly feel.

------------------------------

I am very worried by the amount of page views this topic has gotten, I don't want to sound rude, but if you have something to say, I would like to hear it (especially if you are Muslim or religious). :)

:D

Maybe going to the doctor just to check things would be a sensible idea, but if you do go, he'd probably have to ask questions and that would lead to him finding out about your cousins.

Studies do show that you are right in saying that. But also, if you are one of the youngest sons, or the 3rd 4th etc, son, your mum's female hormones could be slightly passed onto you. (From a program involving John Barrowman).

I, we, totally understand that you don't have the confidence to talk to them. But if/when the time comes, I'd reccomend other people being there, so that you aren't alone and nothing bad will happen.

If you want to be a muslim, then there's nothing stopping you.

Some guys do prefer a relationship without intercourse. And I think if it was a gay guy, you'd be suprised of how many there are out there. I know a couple.

Just remember, homosexuality isn't a bad thing what-so-ever, it's just loving a different person to the norm, ain't anything wrong with that.

rowanlim
23-08-08, 12:49
I'm sorry to hear about how the community is treating you, I agree with Cathapharact, from what I learned about Islam at uni, this kind of attitude isn't what Islam would promote. I think you can still be a good Muslim, not sure about how you can engage in homosexual acts, but I think you can be a good Muslim by being true to God & being a good person. Sorry if I'm not of much help. I really hope people won't keep being mean to you.

Goose
23-08-08, 13:28
I'm sorry to hear about how the community is treating you, I agree with Cathapharact, from what I learned about Islam at uni, this kind of attitude isn't what Islam would promote. I think you can still be a good Muslim, not sure about how you can engage in homosexual acts, but I think you can be a good Muslim by being true to God & being a good person. Sorry if I'm not of much help. I really hope people won't keep being mean to you.

Its difficult to look at a religion like that, "Islam say's there against that", because there are many different sects that have different ideas, Sunni, shi'ite and others. I know some sects like Shia and wahabism are very stict on these sorts of things, in Iran they still lash people who are convicted of homosexual acts and hang those actually convicted of being homosexuals, the Pakistan border regions are even more brutal in there interpritation of the Quran.

Its a religion steeped in Tradition and some prefer to stay as close to the original foundation of Islam as possible. If all the different sects of Christianity did the same our lives would be quite different.

rowanlim
23-08-08, 13:42
^Thank you for pointing that out. Like I said, I'm not a Muslim, what I know is what I've picked up living in a country with many Muslims & from Muslim teachers, I apologize if I'm spreading wrong information. I just hope my opinion will help him, is all :)

Goose
23-08-08, 13:51
^Thank you for pointing that out. Like I said, I'm not a Muslim, what I know is what I've picked up living in a country with many Muslims & from Muslim teachers, I apologize if I'm spreading wrong information. I just hope my opinion will help him, is all :)

Im sure you know more about Islam then i do, but it would depend on what country you've lived in, Islam in Turkey or the UAE is different from that of Pakistan and Iran in slight ways, unfortunatly, those slight ways involve subjects like this.

Tombcool
23-08-08, 17:35
I dont believe that what happened with your cousins decided your sexuality, infact it would normally have the exact opposite effect, to a serious or even violent degree as you get older. Unfortunatly sexual abuse isnt a one off thing, especially in countries where it may not be easily highlighted, infact one of the main reasons we have the age of consent as 16 in England is because of men abusing boys.

They cant wipe a human impulse out of your system, you were born the way you are. If you told your family back then that it happened, then dont be afraid to tell them again, its certainly somthing that needs to be dealt with.

"what guy out there wants to be in a relationship without intercourse"

Maybe another Muslim? If you find another muslim who shares your sexuality, they may have already figured out there place in Islam, and what they feel they can and cant do.

Sick world we live in, but I am sort-of afraid when you say "serious or event violent degree as you get older". Are you saying? No way, I would never do anything like that. Could you elaborate?

There are a few reasons why I won't tell my family again, one of the main ones being they won't believe me, but some of my family actually made jokes about it. You can't imagine how much that hurt. For example, last summer when I went to Egypt, my brother and one of my male cousins (one that wasn't involved in the events) would make inappropriate hand gestures and actions "re-enacting" what they thought happened after telling them. My brother is 15 and my cousin is 19, I mean, when are they going to mature! With my family, half of them would either freak out and say I said everything for attention and then the other half would be extremely immature and make a joke about the whole thing.

In the future, hopefully when most of my family has gone out of their immaturity, I can tell them again.

Thanks for support friend. :o

Maybe going to the doctor just to check things would be a sensible idea, but if you do go, he'd probably have to ask questions and that would lead to him finding out about your cousins.

Studies do show that you are right in saying that. But also, if you are one of the youngest sons, or the 3rd 4th etc, son, your mum's female hormones could be slightly passed onto you. (From a program involving John Barrowman).

I, we, totally understand that you don't have the confidence to talk to them. But if/when the time comes, I'd reccomend other people being there, so that you aren't alone and nothing bad will happen.

If you want to be a muslim, then there's nothing stopping you.

Some guys do prefer a relationship without intercourse. And I think if it was a gay guy, you'd be suprised of how many there are out there. I know a couple.

Just remember, homosexuality isn't a bad thing what-so-ever, it's just loving a different person to the norm, ain't anything wrong with that.

I wouldn't mind if the doctor found out what happened between my cousins, I already told my school I didn't want to get the police involved, and I would tell my doctor the same. The school understood, I don't know why my doctor wouldn't.

I do know that I am the 4th son, but I just have this feeling, that's all, but from the looks of what everyone is saying, its genetic, and I totally live with that. And the only John Barrowman I know is the actor on Torchwood, I think the person you are talking about is different. :ton:

I had a question, when the time comes (as you said) for me to talk them, are you saying, with family or just friends in general? I would assume the outcome would be disastrous if their parents were there and I mentioned it again.

Thanks for the support and advice friend, I really appreciate it. :o

I'm sorry to hear about how the community is treating you, I agree with Cathapharact, from what I learned about Islam at uni, this kind of attitude isn't what Islam would promote. I think you can still be a good Muslim, not sure about how you can engage in homosexual acts, but I think you can be a good Muslim by being true to God & being a good person. Sorry if I'm not of much help. I really hope people won't keep being mean to you.

:hug:

No, you were a great help, just by saying those comforting words.

Its difficult to look at a religion like that, "Islam say's there against that", because there are many different sects that have different ideas, Sunni, shi'ite and others. I know some sects like Shia and wahabism are very stict on these sorts of things, in Iran they still lash people who are convicted of homosexual acts and hang those actually convicted of being homosexuals, the Pakistan border regions are even more brutal in there interpritation of the Quran.

Its a religion steeped in Tradition and some prefer to stay as close to the original foundation of Islam as possible. If all the different sects of Christianity did the same our lives would be quite different.

I was taught that Islam should be treated as one group? I mean, there shouldn't be Sunni and Shi'ite groups, every Islamic person should follow the same rules and laws. But for the first have I heard of people actually being sentenced to death for homosexuality, which I think is absurd.

I heard Saudi Arabia is also pretty strict when it comes to veils, but don't know any more than that.

Shrantellatessa
23-08-08, 21:43
Tombcool, can you speak/read Arabic?

rickybazire
23-08-08, 22:04
I wouldn't mind if the doctor found out what happened between my cousins, I already told my school I didn't want to get the police involved, and I would tell my doctor the same. The school understood, I don't know why my doctor wouldn't.

I do know that I am the 4th son, but I just have this feeling, that's all, but from the looks of what everyone is saying, its genetic, and I totally live with that. And the only John Barrowman I know is the actor on Torchwood, I think the person you are talking about is different. :ton:

I had a question, when the time comes (as you said) for me to talk them, are you saying, with family or just friends in general? I would assume the outcome would be disastrous if their parents were there and I mentioned it again.

Thanks for the support and advice friend, I really appreciate it. :o

Ok, that's cool about the school and doctor.

Yep, that's the John Barrowman I'm on about. He's gay, but he's also really cool. I suppose he could be like the 'gay idol' as it were.

I think I meant with family. Because then they would see the way your cousins react and hopefully some truth comes out. I do see your point, I think I said this in the last post I had, about not wanting your cousins to get into trouble, especially with their fiance. But remember one thing, if it does come out and their fiance found out, your cousins got what they deserve.

No problem at all. PM me if you wanna talk some more.

Raider969
23-08-08, 22:26
Wow what a story.:)

Not As We
23-08-08, 22:47
What a heart wrenching story,
I feel for you, I honestly do,
I'm gay myself, but that is not known to my family,
all of my friends know and support me 100%,

What that counsellor did is so low,
she deserved more than the sack,
I hope that she never gets another job where she handles peoples private lives,
because she obviously can't be trusted,

On the subject of that awful event with your cousins,
I don't think that you would have gotten homosexual tendencies from that,
I believe that we're born with our sexuality.
Even from a young age, before I found anyone sexually attractive, I felt different from the other children my age,
I tended to bond with girls much easier than I did with boys,
I've had plenty of straight guy friends,
but I find that when I'm hanging with girls, things just flow easier, I click a lot more with girls,
maybe because they're more accepting of gay guys, or because we tend to have similar interests,

You might find this article interesting : http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology

Anyway,
I wish you the best and no matter what,
I'm sure that your family will eventually come around to the fact that you're gay and accept you for who you are

:hug:

Zebra
24-08-08, 00:25
I mean, what guy out there wants to be in a relationship without intercourse? :p

If you will find someone who really loves you than you should tell him about your feelings and you should tell him that you don't want to have sex. If he really loves you he will understand and respect that. You shouldn't do something you don't want to do just because your boyfriend wants it.

takamotosan
24-08-08, 00:45
it sickens me how the gays are treated sometimes.

no one deserves what has happened to you.

and it really hurts me that people use religion as a scapegoat for their blatant prejudice.

i honestly believe that the quran (and the bible) are wrong when it comes to the topic of sexual morality.
i think those books were written by some very stuck-up people.

homosexuality IS NOT wrong. nor are the homosexual acts.

i lost my virginity to a guy, and i KNOW i'm not a bad person for it.

you are born that way. you were predisposed to it.
so people telling you it's wrong is not only unfair, it's cruel.
it's like saying having big feet is wrong. or having blue eyes is wrong.

Zebra
24-08-08, 00:54
you are born that way. you were predisposed to it.


Now there we come to the point where opinions are mixed up with facts. There is no real evidence of sexuality being caused by gens (sp?). I don't think you are born with a special sexuality. Your surroundings make you what you are. And with you mentioning the blue eyes thing you gave me an example we recently discussed in school:
Hitler for example was not born as the terrible man we know him. He was very intelligent. He went to the library everyday and read everything he could. He was very popular and had a lot of friends. Some of his friends were even jews. But than he found a book (or an article, don't quite remember) in the library which was about jews and immigrants in general would be causing everything bad and would be problems that had to be sorted out. And reading that book turned him into what we know today. If he hadn't read that book he would perhaps have been famous for inventing something revolutionary or for being a talented artist. So you see. It's what happens around us and with us that makes us what we are.

Tombcool
24-08-08, 05:07
Today, was much better, I got a reply back from an out-of-school counselor I messaged who I used to be close friends with when she was in high school that is setting me up with teen help groups for abuse AND she even gave me contact to a group of Muslims who are in the same situation I am in. Words cannot describe how happy I am right now. This may sound weird, but my counselor actually experienced some of things I have and it made me feel like I was not alone, like I know I am not alone, but it was just this strange hopeful feeling? She even showed me a newspaper article where she was featured as a "counselor of the month" or something where she revealed all her past troubles and stuff like that, really brave woman. Someone I am definitely going to look up to.

Tombcool, can you speak/read Arabic?

No, sadly, I do not know to read or speak Arabic fluently, I can only understand it if someone is talking to me. But I would really like to hear what you have to say in English. :D



I think I meant with family. Because then they would see the way your cousins react and hopefully some truth comes out. I do see your point, I think I said this in the last post I had, about not wanting your cousins to get into trouble, especially with their fiance. But remember one thing, if it does come out and their fiance found out, your cousins got what they deserve.

They certainly would get what they deserved, but I think my GOD (ALLAH), would take care of them after they die. But who knows what happens from here. I am going to Egypt again this year after I finish my final year in high school, so hopefully I can build up that courage by then.

Thanks for letting me know if I can PM you, if I ever need to, I will. :o :)

Wow what a story.:)

Was there a point to posting this? I don't mean to be rude, but every word was true and I was being serious. :confused:

What a heart wrenching story,
I feel for you, I honestly do,
I'm gay myself, but that is not known to my family,
all of my friends know and support me 100%,

What that counsellor did is so low,
she deserved more than the sack,
I hope that she never gets another job where she handles peoples private lives,
because she obviously can't be trusted,

On the subject of that awful event with your cousins,
I don't think that you would have gotten homosexual tendencies from that,
I believe that we're born with our sexuality.
Even from a young age, before I found anyone sexually attractive, I felt different from the other children my age,
I tended to bond with girls much easier than I did with boys,
I've had plenty of straight guy friends,
but I find that when I'm hanging with girls, things just flow easier, I click a lot more with girls,
maybe because they're more accepting of gay guys, or because we tend to have similar interests,

You might find this article interesting : http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...nce.psychology (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology)

Anyway,
I wish you the best and no matter what,
I'm sure that your family will eventually come around to the fact that you're gay and accept you for who you ar

I am glad to see another person comfort me through all this, I really appreciate the kind words. :hug:

And I feel the same too (about the bonding), most of my friends are girls as well. I think things go a lot smoother with girls, mainly with interests and sense of humor. A lot of the guys at my school have a dry sense of humor and make way too many sexist jokes or just joke about homosexuality (by pretending to put on a lisp and stupid stuff like that). Which is very weird, because I know many straight flamboyant guys. I really hate some of the stereotypes going out there!

Thanks for the article, it was an interesting read.:)

Thanks for the support again. :hug:

If you will find someone who really loves you than you should tell him about your feelings and you should tell him that you don't want to have sex. If he really loves you he will understand and respect that. You shouldn't do something you don't want to do just because your boyfriend wants it.

I really hope I find someone like that. :o

Now there we come to the point where opinions are mixed up with facts. There is no real evidence of sexuality being caused by gens (sp?). I don't think you are born with a special sexuality. Your surroundings make you what you are.*genes :)

Interesting you bring this up, I read that same point (sort-of) here:
http://www.islamic.org.uk/homosex.html

Although a lot of the info in that link won't help me since it is talking about the past, not the present.

it sickens me how the gays are treated sometimes.

no one deserves what has happened to you.

I agree with you on this, but I think GOD (ALLAH) will reward me in time with what I have endured. But with your other points I am worried about because I do want to stick to my religion as much as possible. I think losing your virginity to a guy doesn't mean you are bad person at all too.

Thanks for kind words and support friend. :hug:

Goose
24-08-08, 05:49
Sick world we live in, but I am sort-of afraid when you say "serious or event violent degree as you get older". Are you saying? No way, I would never do anything like that. Could you elaborate?

I was taught that Islam should be treated as one group? I mean, there shouldn't be Sunni and Shi'ite groups, every Islamic person should follow the same rules and laws. But for the first have I heard of people actually being sentenced to death for homosexuality, which I think is absurd.

I heard Saudi Arabia is also pretty strict when it comes to veils, but don't know any more than that.

I meant emotionaly, you will resent your cousins, and as you grow older that will only grow aswell, its best to get it off your chest to some degree now rather then letting it sit at the back of your mind, i dont really mean confronting them, i doubt i could, just finding some closure on it.

Islam like christianity isnt one group unfortunatly, if it were conflicts like Iraq and afghanistan would have ended in 2003 and 2001 respectivley. I mean Wahhabis consider anyone who isnt part of there sect, or Sunni, to be apostates, it is quite popular in Egypt, but i think it comes from Saudi Arabia.

They are still very strict over there, on subjects more serious then veils in Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and beaten, when she told the police she was arrested for adultry, had 200 lashes and spent 6 months in jail: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/rape-victim-committed-adultery-saudi-arabia/2007/11/25/1195925651975.html

Zebra
24-08-08, 13:04
They are still very strict over there, on subjects more serious then veils in Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped and beaten, when she told the police she was arrested for adultry, had 200 lashes and spent 6 months in jail: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/rape-victim-committed-adultery-saudi-arabia/2007/11/25/1195925651975.html

Now this is shocking. They seriously think that "laws" which were written hundreds of years ago still apply to a modern community that is very different. I really don't want to know how often such things happen without the media being involved and without anyone knowing about it.

Catapharact
24-08-08, 13:13
Now this is shocking. They seriously think that "laws" which were written hundreds of years ago still apply to a modern community that is very different. I really don't want to know how often such things happen without the media being involved and without anyone knowing about it.


Things ARE changing. Especially with the new cases involving rape; Where the public has shown its outrage against such decisions. Quite recently, the judges panel has been given an independent jurist panel under the monarchial rule to overrule a decision if it seems... "questionable."

And the viel thing will go... Evetually. Believe in the people.

Goose
24-08-08, 17:05
Things ARE changing. Especially with the new cases involving rape; Where the public has shown its outrage against such decisions. Quite recently, the judges panel has been given an independent jurist panel under the monarchial rule to overrule a decision if it seems... "questionable."

And the viel thing will go... Evetually. Believe in the people.

They had actually been in disuse for a long time, around the same time the west started realising some things were fantasy, it was fundamentalists who had influence on governments that re-instated some pretty strange crimes and punishments. Witch-Craft is still a crime that people are being convicted of commiting in Saudi, even though there is no evidence to prove it: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3378460.ece, not only are the 'witches' to be killed, but to have it done via beheading.

As its plain to see, religion is wrong about things, somtimes you have to look elsewhere for an answer.

stranger1992
24-08-08, 19:00
Your kind of right!

What makes me angry is where people use Religion as an excuss :mad:
Like they do for homosexuality, which I've encountered over the Summer, by some ideot in my yr. So I called him a ****ING BIBLE BASHER!!!, he's not happy.


If you called me that i would bash your face in! I find that quite offensive too. ;)

TRfan23
24-08-08, 19:03
If you called me that i would bash your face in! I find that quite offensive too. ;)

I see your point, and I shouldn't have called him that. But he was insulting me baddly, over my homosexuality with religion :( :mad:

So I got mad and angry :'(



I hope this doesn't cause an argument thread! :o

rickybazire
24-08-08, 19:32
If you called me that i would bash your face in! I find that quite offensive too. ;)

In my Geopgrahy lesson, the guy at the back said 'what? Bible bashers?' because of the subject being about Christianity. My teacher said, 'you do not call Christians Bible-bashers.' He said 'why not?' I turned round and just said to him 'shut up you p****!'

A few oo's arose and he was stood up in his threatening way, but did nothing.

EDIT: For those of didn't know, I'm a Christian...:D

takamotosan
24-08-08, 21:20
Now there we come to the point where opinions are mixed up with facts. There is no real evidence of sexuality being caused by gens (sp?). I don't think you are born with a special sexuality. Your surroundings make you what you are. And with you mentioning the blue eyes thing you gave me an example we recently discussed in school:
Hitler for example was not born as the terrible man we know him. He was very intelligent. He went to the library everyday and read everything he could. He was very popular and had a lot of friends. Some of his friends were even jews. But than he found a book (or an article, don't quite remember) in the library which was about jews and immigrants in general would be causing everything bad and would be problems that had to be sorted out. And reading that book turned him into what we know today. If he hadn't read that book he would perhaps have been famous for inventing something revolutionary or for being a talented artist. So you see. It's what happens around us and with us that makes us what we are.


if my surroundings make me who i am, then why was it that when i was looking at my dad's porn, i was looking at the GUYS in the magazines, and not really the girls? this is when i was 6 years. old. and i have absolutely no recollection of ever meeting a gay guy until i was 10.

my mom specifically told me she saw signs of it when i was 5 years old. there's no way i could've been "influenced" in that direction. in fact, i was "influenced" to be straight.
but that didn't work.
seeing as i'm still gay.

rickybazire
24-08-08, 22:37
if my surroundings make me who i am, then why was it that when i was looking at my dad's porn, i was looking at the GUYS in the magazines, and not really the girls? this is when i was 6 years. old. and i have absolutely no recollection of ever meeting a gay guy until i was 10.

my mom specifically told me she saw signs of it when i was 5 years old. there's no way i could've been "influenced" in that direction. in fact, i was "influenced" to be straight.
but that didn't work.
seeing as i'm still gay.

Lol, my dad hasn't got porn...I don't think...:cen:

I suppose at a young age, it's kinda difficult to determine whether you'll be gay or not because you don't know exactly what it is. Then again, there's opinions on that, so please no more on what I said...:ton:

My mum hasn't said anything about me having signs of gayness, (I ain't gay), and I think most parents try to influence their kids to be being straight just naturally.

How's the situation now tombcool?

Catapharact
25-08-08, 01:43
They had actually been in disuse for a long time, around the same time the west started realising some things were fantasy, it was fundamentalists who had influence on governments that re-instated some pretty strange crimes and punishments. Witch-Craft is still a crime that people are being convicted of commiting in Saudi, even though there is no evidence to prove it: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3378460.ece, not only are the 'witches' to be killed, but to have it done via beheading.

As its plain to see, religion is wrong about things, somtimes you have to look elsewhere for an answer.

Its not a matter of religion but fundimentalism. The problem being that some people tend to see change as a... bad thing; Which IMO, if let go upon its own accord, it can verily be that. Thus those rural areas that see such change as a threat end up disclosing their own laws. Didn't Texas just raided a Morman sect not too long ago because of child abuse issues?

Well same applies here. And people still don't like the fact that SA is a monarchy... I tell ya, some people really need to get their heads on straight.

Goose
25-08-08, 06:22
Its not a matter of religion but fundimentalism. The problem being that some people tend to see change as a... bad thing; Which IMO, if let go upon its own accord, it can verily be that. Thus those rural areas that see such change as a threat end up disclosing their own laws. Didn't Texas just raided a Morman sect not too long ago because of child abuse issues?

Well same applies here. And people still don't like the fact that SA is a monarchy... I tell ya, some people really need to get their heads on straight.

Yea in that Texas church place, that was pretty weird. It seemed to just be an excuse to have sex with 14 year olds and marry cousins, the people there didnt seem to be able to give any honest reason why they were doing it.

I think TombCool will be alright, there are worse places it would seem to show your sexuality.

rickybazire
25-08-08, 09:40
I think TombCool will be alright, there are worse places it would seem to show your sexuality.

That's so true. Africa, within ghettos, North Korea and so forth.

The worse thing about North Korea is that if you own anything the slightest resemblance to Christianity, you're killed. How sad...:(

Zebra
25-08-08, 13:16
if my surroundings make me who i am, then why was it that when i was looking at my dad's porn, i was looking at the GUYS in the magazines, and not really the girls? this is when i was 6 years. old. and i have absolutely no recollection of ever meeting a gay guy until i was 10.

my mom specifically told me she saw signs of it when i was 5 years old. there's no way i could've been "influenced" in that direction. in fact, i was "influenced" to be straight.
but that didn't work.
seeing as i'm still gay.

You're influenced by many things. It could be something totally unrelated to homosexuality that caused you being gay. It does not mean that somebody has to be told "You must be gay, you must be gay, you must be gay, you must be...". It just means that SOMETHING happened that caused it. Perhaps there are people who have genetically caused homosexual tendencies. But I'd think that the majority of people got their sexuality from what happened around them. You can't point your finger at a baby and say: "She's a lesbian!"

thanatos
25-08-08, 13:33
You're influenced by many things. It could be something totally unrelated to homosexuality that caused you being gay. It does not mean that somebody has to be told "You must be gay, you must be gay, you must be gay, you must be...". It just means that SOMETHING happened that caused it. Perhaps there are people who have genetically caused homosexual tendencies. But I'd think that the majority of people got their sexuality from what happened around them. You can't point your finger at a baby and say: "She's a lesbian!"

Well no because there's no way to know if she is or not, but I firmly believe that if that baby grows up to be a lesbian then there is nothing that could have happened in her life that could have stopped her being attracted and sexually aroused solely by women.

Forwen
25-08-08, 14:15
Two and a half pages before this thread slid into the usual "gays: born or made?" gibberish. Is this some sort of a record?

Tombcool, I'm no Muslim so I can't give you any advice, just wish courage to stay on whatever course you believe will bring you happiness. Good luck!

Tombcool
25-08-08, 15:59
How's the situation now tombcool?

Much better, thanks for asking :), I post this before:
Today, was much better, I got a reply back from an out-of-school counselor I messaged (on Facebook, forgot to mention that) who I used to be close friends with when she was in high school that is setting me up with teen help groups for abuse AND she even gave me contact to a group of Muslims who are in the same situation I am in (well, out-of-the-closet Muslims who are struggling with society, forgot to mention that). Words cannot describe how happy I am right now. This may sound weird, but my counselor actually experienced some of things I have and it made me feel like I was not alone, well I obviously know I am not alone, but it was just this strange hopeful feeling? She even showed me a newspaper article where she was featured as a "counselor of the month" or something like that where she revealed all her past troubles and stuff like that, really brave woman. Someone I am definitely going to look up to.Sessions for the help groups start when I start my final of year of high school next week. I still do visit that psychiatrist, but i'm going to try and convince my mom to stop paying for the visits, because personally, i'd rather be with people who have similar experiences to help me get through my problems.


Tombcool, I'm no Muslim so I can't give you any advice, just wish courage to stay on whatever course you believe will bring you happiness. Good luck!Thanks. :hug:

violentblossom
25-08-08, 16:39
Well no because there's no way to know if she is or not, but I firmly believe that if that baby grows up to be a lesbian then there is nothing that could have happened in her life that could have stopped her being attracted and sexually aroused solely by women.

strongly AGREED.

i was going to stay out of this because i'm not Muslim, but i see alot of other nonMuslims have commented to show support, and i'd like to do the same.

Thank you for having the courage to be so open to this forum about an issue that can be quite tricky and also very sensitive. I commend your bravery.

I wish you a world of happiness and the best of luck in your endeavors. In the few messages i have exchanged with you, i know you are a very intelligent and kind and i just know you have a bright future ahead of you. Always, always keep your face to the skies.. life is full of bumps and bruises, but i know you'll do well.

ShadyCroft
25-08-08, 17:04
Hi Tombcool,
I see you got replies from non-gay people more than gay folks. :p

I don't know exactly what to tell you. Your's is a pretty difficult situation. I only hope you get the best of everything, and don't pay attention to the haters and always keep close to the people who care about you and would support you.

If there's anything I've learned, the people who hate homosexuality will always hate it no matter how many times you explain yourself and they will NEVER EVER approve or change their minds, so don't explain yourself because no one can ever know how it is to be gay except us.

And I've discovered that what matters in the end is what I do in my life, not the praise or reaction I get. I've made a promise to myself I'll do great in university, I'll travel to the US and will find a very good job and will secure myself and build a health and peaceful life for me. I'm not even gonna kid myself and marry a girl just to please everyone else. I will find some one who I can share my life with and we will both build a happy and healthy family, God willing. Am not gonna even let an inch space in my heart for hate.

And I hope the same for you too.

Keep us updated with whats going on with you. :)

rickybazire
26-08-08, 18:45
BUMP!

How's it all going now?

violentblossom
26-08-08, 19:15
yes, i do hope you are feeling better about everything.

Tombcool
26-08-08, 19:18
Oh damn, i'm sorry I didn't see the recent replies! Good thing I was only a day late, but I have more tell as my school's registration was today. :o

Ok, so I went into my school today to register for my final year of high school, and things seemed a bit weird! The pranks and name-calling were gone, but a lot of the guys were giving me the silent treatment while a lot of my girlfriends from last year were excited to see me and we talked a bunch as we waited in line to get our student ID card and timetable (I was happy about that). There were a few guys that of course didn't stop ridiculing me. They kept talking to me in a lisp, so I just ignored them. I don't even have a lisp. :confused:

Surprisingly, situations with my family (and the Muslim community) actually blew over because of other important things in life. My mom and the rest of the family for some reason told me to never bring up the fact that I am gay and "forgot" about the whole thing (it'll probably be brought up again when I get into a relationship, but maybe they never have to know:p). But I do no longer have to see the psychiatrist, I made my mom a deal for instead using the money for that, she uses it to pay for a good Arabic / Islamic teacher. She agreed, and classes are...every Saturday (argh!!). The Muslim community, well, nothing weird went on, whenever I went into a mosque, we just prayed and left. No weird looks or anything.

i was going to stay out of this because i'm not Muslim, but i see alot of other nonMuslims have commented to show support, and i'd like to do the same.

Thank you for having the courage to be so open to this forum about an issue that can be quite tricky and also very sensitive. I commend your bravery.

I wish you a world of happiness and the best of luck in your endeavors. In the few messages i have exchanged with you, i know you are a very intelligent and kind and i just know you have a bright future ahead of you. Always, always keep your face to the skies.. life is full of bumps and bruises, but i know you'll do well.You're an amazing friend Rae, even though I have only known you for such little time. :) Thanks for the heartfelt words and support. :hug:

I don't know exactly what to tell you. Your's is a pretty difficult situation. I only hope you get the best of everything, and don't pay attention to the haters and always keep close to the people who care about you and would support you.

If there's anything I've learned, the people who hate homosexuality will always hate it no matter how many times you explain yourself and they will NEVER EVER approve or change their minds, so don't explain yourself because no one can ever know how it is to be gay except us.

And I've discovered that what matters in the end is what I do in my life, not the praise or reaction I get. I've made a promise to myself I'll do great in university, I'll travel to the US and will find a very good job and will secure myself and build a health and peaceful life for me. I'm not even gonna kid myself and marry a girl just to please everyone else. I will find some one who I can share my life with and we will both build a happy and healthy family, God willing. Am not gonna even let an inch space in my heart for hate.

And I hope the same for you too.

That's what I am going to do as well, become successful in life, and then forget all the haters. I want to travel around the world and show my art everywhere.:jmp: I think that's the best revenge to the haters too, becoming a famous graphic designer / photo manipulator, and while they probably end up never passing college.

From what I have experienced, I 100% agree with you that some people will never accept homosexuality.

Thanks so much for the support. :hug:

rickybazire
26-08-08, 20:07
Aww :hug:.

I'm so pleased everything has turned out pretty much the way that you wanted. That's amazing about your family, your mosque, your comrades at school.

That's a very cool idea about travelling the world.

Homosexuality will hopefully soon be a thing that everyone will accept in the near future.

Well done for ignoring those last few idiots, :D, it will all pass.

I would like to congratulate you on being adult in all this and sticking to what you believe in and not saying you are not gay just to shut the situation up.

I wish you all the best in future and hope that no more similar situations occur.

Best of luck at high school :tmb:

ShadyCroft
26-08-08, 21:07
I want to travel around the world

Now you're talking! :tmb:

Yes, I want to travel around too and experience different cultures.
The problem with being an extremely religious person who sticks by the book (ofcourse, I dont want to generalize. I just mean afew individuals) is that you bound yourself in this box which prevents from seeing that there's so much more to what you see.
Going to China to see their new year festival with the dragons and lanterns really doesn't keep you away from God, and seeing all these cultures would make you see how there are those things (such as those haters, gossipers, and "oh, am having a bad hair day") which are so not worth it.
Besides, earth is God's gift, and traveling enables you to hopscotch around it and appreciate it, and that can only bring you closer to love,peace and God.

Am glad everything's ok with you. And don't we're all here (even in the Gay community) if you ever feel like talking to someone. :)

violentblossom
26-08-08, 21:20
You're an amazing friend Rae, even though I have only known you for such little time. :) Thanks for the heartfelt words and support. :hug:



Absolutely. People can be very cruel and very unfair and very stupid.. and if they don't want to get to know you, then theyre just nuts. You don't need negative people like that anyway.. They talk to you with a lisp, and you don't even have one.. sheesh.. if you're gonna make fun of someone, it should at least be something that applies to them.

I've never understood why someone's sexual orientation even matters. It doesn't affect the way you'd work at a job, or your ethics, or if you're a good person or not.

Travelling the world would be amazing. <3 Where would you choose to go first?

Tombcool
28-08-08, 05:48
Thanks to all above for the support again. :D :hug: If I have anything else to say, or another update, i'll post it here. For now, things are calming down, and people are worrying about the stress of starting high school than picking on people.

Absolutely. People can be very cruel and very unfair and very stupid.. and if they don't want to get to know you, then theyre just nuts. You don't need negative people like that anyway.. They talk to you with a lisp, and you don't even have one.. sheesh.. if you're gonna make fun of someone, it should at least be something that applies to them.

I've never understood why someone's sexual orientation even matters. It doesn't affect the way you'd work at a job, or your ethics, or if you're a good person or not.

Travelling the world would be amazing. <3 Where would you choose to go first?

Agreed! :D:hug:

Oh, thanks for asking! When I graduate from college/university, I am going to spend my money on going to Rome, England, Italy, Japan, China, and France! I'd probably go to Japan or China first. I love anything Asian. Then I would go England, because I really want to visit Warwick Castle, I just love everything about it from what I have seen in pictures.

I go to Egypt every other summer and it honestly gets boring. I mean, seeing the pyramids and sphinx for the first time was awesome, but it wasn't really interesting a second and third time. :ton:

I have TONS of pictures from my last trip to Egypt, was too lazy to put them up anywhere though. :o

Yes, I want to travel around too and experience different cultures.
The problem with being an extremely religious person who sticks by the book (ofcourse, I dont want to generalize. I just mean afew individuals) is that you bound yourself in this box which prevents from seeing that there's so much more to what you see.
Going to China to see their new year festival with the dragons and lanterns really doesn't keep you away from God, and seeing all these cultures would make you see how there are those things (such as those haters, gossipers, and "oh, am having a bad hair day") which are so not worth it.
Besides, earth is God's gift, and traveling enables you to hopscotch around it and appreciate it, and that can only bring you closer to love,peace and God.Actually, I learned from my parents that it is good thing in my religion, Islam, to learn about other cultures (and even other religions). I couldn't agree with more the things you said. :D

I really want to go to China someday too, but for now I have to stick going to Chinatown in Toronto and visiting the malls where stores sell pirated versions of new movies for 5 bucks. :D:ton:

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Anyways, it's 2 AM here and i'm off to bed. :)

raiderfun
01-09-08, 13:35
Hmmm, very very interesting thread tombcool, I added you on MSN, can you log in in there ? :)