View Full Version : Breaking down the Fourth Wall (of dimension)
The Fourth Wall. The wall which separates us audience with whatever media we're watching. Be it via Television, cinema screen, your monitor or even a book. You know, when the character turn to the screen to address you, as the audience or a player..
I love how Lara breaks this wall in TR1-3 and 5. When she welcomes us back to her humble abode in TR1-3 and when she give us the tutorial to move her around in the aforementioned games.
And as we know it, the sweetest and most awesome fourth wall breaking happens at the end of TR2 when she wants to get ready to get into the shower, turns to the camera, said "Haven't you seen enough?*" and proceed to shoot us with her shotgun. Awesome... :D :tmb:
TRL and TRA lack this feature. Not that I blame CD because we are asking the game to become realistic. Fourth wall breaking Lara won't be so realistic these days. But then TR4 also lack this feature as the tutorial level was taken over by Von Croy.
But maybe, there's a way around this. I suggest these examples done via the idle animations:
1. Leave Lara alone for say about 5 minutes. She'll gesture for the camera to come closer and knock on it. Knock! Knock! "Hello? Anybody there? I'm getting bored out of my wits here!" she says while her face peers into the camera.
2. A variation of the above, but after she gesture the camera to come closer, she'll grab its sides and plant a kiss on the screen. Then she says "Now that I've got you're attention, can we move on?". :cln:
So those are my ideas that's been hanging in the nook of my brain for the past year. Glad to get them out.
So guys, what do you think? Post your ideas about how lara can break the magical fourth wall....
Cheers! :D
*Not a direct quote. Correct me if I'm wrong :)
EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify here that I agree that the fourth wall breaking is not really realistic in actual gameplay. But it would be nice as Easter Eggs, something that you have to work for to see. Maybe the 5 minutes is too short. Why not 10, 20, or an hour? Who knows? It's up to CD to implement it. Perhaps playing the game on 25 December will pop out some festive decoration in the manor and Lara saying Merry Christmas to everyone. That's one way....
EDIT2:BTW, I just remembered! She DID break the fourth wall in TRL! When she's doing nothing, zoom to see her face and press triangle/action button. She'll do a little shrug as if telling the player she doesn't know what the hell she's supposed to do.. :D
lolage, that'd be spooky if you weren't expecting it...:rolleyes:
I personally love this fourth wall concept. Like an easter egg. Hideo Kojima has done this quite a lot in bonus MGS materials. I wouldn't like it too much though it it's in the game proper. Maybe in the manor it could work. I've always wanted to see current-gen Lara doing an interview, so maybe a good unlockable would be having a simulated interview with her in the manor with you asking the questions (about the story, behind-the-scenes process, etc.) while she addresses you through the screen.
n00b raider
06-09-08, 16:04
That would be kind of funny, actually. :p
_Awestruck_
06-09-08, 16:04
I'd actually really love something like this..
Nice ideas.
I'm kinda indiferent to this idea but I'd love the second example to be in the game :cln:
I would like to get an e-slap from Lara too :whi: :D
Woop Legend!
06-09-08, 16:07
I want Lara to tell us how to do her moves in the Manor like in the classics.
As for the knocking on the camera, meh, it seems a bit too camp for my liking.
I loved how in the old Resident Evil games,sometimes if you shot at the screen, it would 'crack' as if shooting through the TV screen:p
Or in Scary Movie 1 where the camera zooms in on Cindy,only to hit her in the face and she pushes it away:D Or how in SM2,Shorty says "What you doin' here Cindy?...and she replies " It's the sequel.."...Shorty "Oh":p
Maybe if she looked at the camera while she was idle...but knocking/kissing it..nah, would spoil the mood:p
Hehhee It would be really cute if she knocked on the screen or somthing like that! :D
But I guess it would sort of ruin the mood :/
still it would be cool if she did something!
Tomb_of_Darkns
06-09-08, 16:24
maybe but it think it might ruin it if you want to just stand still and look at the beautiful scenery and stuff, because we could be looking at the beautiful ocean and then all of a sudden the camera changes to see lara knocking on it
When we play a Tomb Raider game, we expect to take the role of Lara... We are Lara when playing...
Breaking the "fourth wall" destroy this feeling and show us that we're not Lara, but controlling her.
It wasn't overused in TR1-TR3... But I don't expect to see it in future Tomb Raider game, even as fun as it was back then :)
would LOVE the cam hitting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it would be great
that reminds me of good old runaway:a road adventure,where in the inventory if you think too long Brian(the main charcater) starts hitting the screen though his small window
I've always wanted to see current-gen Lara doing an interview, so maybe a good unlockable would be having a simulated interview with her in the manor with you asking the questions (about the story, behind-the-scenes process, etc.) while she addresses you through the screen.
I would like to get an e-slap from Lara too :whi: :D
Good idea guys! Tho I'm still thinking how to get "Lara slapping the player to attention" scene to work out.. Any ideas?
maybe but it think it might ruin it if you want to just stand still and look at the beautiful scenery and stuff, because we could be looking at the beautiful ocean and then all of a sudden the camera changes to see lara knocking on it
Maybe the time for this SPECIAL idle animation can be extended. 10 minutes maybe (without moving the mouse even the slightest and not pressing any buttons). You're not gonna stare at the scenery for 10 freaking minutes, or are you? :D
TRhalloween
06-09-08, 16:38
I don't mind her telling us how to do moves like in 1-3 but none of that "Don't you think you've seen enough?" kind of thing.
we would be able to see a witty side of lara that we have'nt seen for quite a while:)and truthfully that is the kind of persone lara is we all know it from playing the games she has that funny quality and this kinda cartoonish comedic side to her and the game.Ilove the idea:)
I'd like a sonic the hedgehog style action, where she taps her foot in frustration, or looks at her watch. I loved that in the oldy sonics :D
Alister's_Brain
06-09-08, 16:48
From what I remember Lara did kinda break the wall in TRL.
Anyone remember this cutscene?
Wj83xTqyk9w
Lara looks at us telling us, "Yes they are distracted, you know what to do."
otherwise its the only scene I remember when she kinda interacts with us.
From what I remember Lara did kinda break the wall in TRL.
Anyone remember this cutscene?
Wj83xTqyk9w
Lara looks at us telling us, "Yes they are distracted, you know what to do."
otherwise its the only scene I remember when she kinda interacts with us.
She doesn't really look at us... She just looks away, like if she was thinking of something...
And sorry guys, but Tomb Raider is nothing about comedy. It would be horrible if she hit the camera.
And sorry guys, but Tomb Raider is nothing about comedy. It would be horrible if she hit the camera.
It doesn't have to be in the story line. This Fourth Wall breaking can be Easter Eggs in the game meant to suprise us and make us laugh at some point. :)
Alister's_Brain
06-09-08, 17:01
She doesn't really look at us... She just looks away, like if she was thinking of something...
And sorry guys, but Tomb Raider is nothing about comedy. It would be horrible if she hit the camera.
lol, that would be weird. Lara looking back and smirking to the wall??? I believe CD wanted her to smirk at us. you can see her smile.:wve:
but it really doesn't matter, this is just showing somewhat of the interaction the topic creator was talking about.
MichaelK@NK
06-09-08, 17:07
This feature would be kind of cool actually. It'd be quite funny to see Lara coming over and talking to us etc. Not sure if I'd really want it in the actual gameplay. But maybe as extra bonus features. I like the idea:jmp:
Tomb_of_Darkns
06-09-08, 17:08
Good idea guys! Tho I'm still thinking how to get "Lara slapping the player to attention" scene to work out.. Any ideas?
Maybe the time for this SPECIAL idle animation can be extended. 10 minutes maybe (without moving the mouse even the slightest and not pressing any buttons). You're not gonna stare at the scenery for 10 freaking minutes, or are you? :D
true :p it's a good idea i change my mind since no person, not even me, will be that impressed by the graphics that much that they have to spend 10 minutes to just look at it :p ooh maybe we can customize how long we want the idle animation takes place.
it would be so funny if she was hugging a wall and then we stop and then she does the animation and while doing it she falls lmao :vlol:
She doesn't really look at us... She just looks away, like if she was thinking of something...
And sorry guys, but Tomb Raider is nothing about comedy. It would be horrible if she hit the camera.
yes but something frsh won't hurt,will it?
Tomb_of_Darkns
06-09-08, 17:11
yes but something frsh won't hurt,will it?
yeah i agree this could be original to the tr series i likey :tmb:
Interesting ideas, but kissing the camera would be cheesy, I'd go for that knock in the camera if we're not doing anything for like 15 min or so.
I like some Easter eggs like that, but nothing over the top. :p
Tomb_of_Darkns
06-09-08, 17:15
it would funny if she pointed her guns and cussed us to do something lmao
BTW, the "inspiration" for the "knock-knock joke" (sorry, I couldn't resist naming it! :P) is actually from the game Discworld.
http://www.mrbillsadventureland.com/amusing/amusing.htm#SCREENSAVER
TRhalloween
06-09-08, 17:24
But what if she wasn't looking at the camera?
But what if she wasn't looking at the camera?
Perhaps she can do this:
1.Left alone (no controller input for XX minutes!),
2.Look around
3.Spot the camera
4.Gesture the camera to come closer
5. The camera come closer on it's own
6.She grabs it
7.After that is up to Crystal Dynamics imagination... :D
I still think that it doesn't have its place in the actual gameplay...
I don't mind about easter eggs, as long as they don't interfer with the gameplay and the feeling (So only to a specific place... Like the mansion?).
But if I play in a spooky tombs and I stop moving for a while, I don't want it to turn into a funny moment only because I don't play.
That's a little bit too cheesy, and just the thought of it makes me cringe. No more breaking the Fourth Wall - I want to be immersed in the game.
The Fourth Wall. The wall which separates us audience with whatever media we're watching. Be it via Television, cinema screen, your monitor or even a book. You know, when the character turn to the screen to address you, as the audience or a player..
I love how Lara breaks this wall in TR1-3 and 5. When she welcomes us back to her humble abode in TR1-3 and when she give us the tutorial to move her around in the aforementioned games.
And as we know it, the sweetest and most awesome fourth wall breaking happens at the end of TR2 when she wants to get ready to get into the shower, turns to the camera, said "Haven't you seen enough?*" and proceed to shoot us with her shotgun. Awesome... :D :tmb:
TRL and TRA lack this feature. Not that I blame CD because we are asking the game to become realistic. Fourth wall breaking Lara won't be so realistic these days. But then TR4 also lack this feature as the tutorial level was taken over by Von Croy.
But maybe, there's a way around this. I suggest these examples done via the idle animations:
1. Leave Lara alone for say about 5 minutes. She'll gesture for the camera to come closer and knock on it. Knock! Knock! "Hello? Anybody there? I'm getting bored out of my wits here!" she says while her face peers into the camera.
2. A variation of the above, but after she gesture the camera to come closer, she'll grab its sides and plant a kiss on the screen. Then she says "Now that I've got you're attention, can we move on?". :cln:
So those are my ideas that's been hanging in the nook of my brain for the past year. Glad to get them out.
So guys, what do you think? Post your ideas about how lara can break the magical fourth wall....
Cheers! :D
*Not a direct quote. Correct me if I'm wrong :)
hehehe.
I'd like that. Funny easter egg.
Perhaps I should clarify here that I agree that the fourth wall breaking is not really realistic in actual gameplay. But it would be nice as Easter Eggs, something that you have to work for to see. Maybe the 5 minutes is too short. Why not 10, 20, or an hour? Who knows? It's up to CD to implement it. Perhaps playing the game on 25 December will pop out some festive decoration in the manor and Lara saying Merry Christmas to everyone.That's one way....
I personally love this fourth wall concept. Like an easter egg. Hideo Kojima has done this quite a lot in bonus MGS materials. I wouldn't like it too much though it it's in the game proper. Maybe in the manor it could work. I've always wanted to see current-gen Lara doing an interview, so maybe a good unlockable would be having a simulated interview with her in the manor with you asking the questions (about the story, behind-the-scenes process, etc.) while she addresses you through the screen.
This is an AMAZING idea!
It would be SO wonderful to have a Making Of like this. With a virtual interview with Lara and the Making Of clips inbetween!
Hey got another idea:
Again, leave her standing alone. After a certain period, she'll look/face the camera, cross her arm, cocks one of her eyebrow and rapped her fingers on her arm, as if she's impatient and waiting for your command. :D
BTW, I just remembered! She DID break the fourth wall in TRL! When she's doing nothing, zoom to see her face and press triangle/action button. She'll do a little shrug as if telling the player she doesn't know what the hell she's supposed to do.. :D
It's an unsaid general rule in storytelling that you don't break the fourth wall. When a writer breaks the fourth wall, someone points a finger and claims hysterically, "You broke the fourth wall. You are not supposed to do that!" Why? Because it takes the reader out of the escapist setting. It's boring when overused.
Lara turning around and saying, "I'm not going to make that jump, damn it. Quit forcing me to do it." would interrupt the gameplay.
Bad idea in game. Good idea for Easter Egg material.
It's an unsaid general rule in storytelling that you don't break the fourth wall. When a writer breaks the fourth wall, someone points a finger and claims hysterically, "You broke the fourth wall. You are not supposed to do that!" Why? Because it takes the reader out of the escapist setting. It's boring when overused.
Lara turning around and saying, "I'm not going to make that jump, damn it. Quit forcing me to do it." would interrupt the gameplay.
Bad idea in game. Good idea for Easter Egg material.
That's why I already stated that it doesn't have to pop up in real gameplay (ala- TR2 ending) but rather as nice, hard to achieve Easter Eggs... :) And when you do achieve it, it meant to make people be surprised, smile and laugh it off.. :D
Tho the one example you mentioned is quite nice.. :D
Cheers!
Sorry, but this is just dumb in the context of Tomb Raider, whether in gameplay or as an easter egg.
The whole point of being immersed in a game is just that: you're supposed to feel like you're there. Or that you're playing the character. Or both. Doing anything to break that just takes away the immersion factor, reminds you you're playing a game and spoils the whole experience. Even effects like lens flare or displaying stuff on the the camera lens, like dirt or cracks, also break the immersion -- again, because they remind you you're on the other side of that lens. I want to feel like I'm there thank you very much!
The TRL video clip linked to above does break the fourth wall because Lara does look at the camera. It's just dumb; the same way we hear "Gooooooal" if she kicks that ball into the goal in Mexico. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
With all this talk of TRU being the most epic TR, with grand themes, a brooding score, dark environments and a great story, the last thing you want is some daft gimmick taking away from that.
In general I hate it when the fourth wall is broken. Lara broke it in Legend on the first level when she was sneaking up on the two guards chatting, she looked at the camera with a smirk. I was a little irritated.
x2crazyidiot
07-09-08, 16:04
Sorry, but this is just dumb in the context of Tomb Raider, whether in gameplay or as an easter egg.
The whole point of being immersed in a game is just that: you're supposed to feel like you're there. Or that you're playing the character. Or both. Doing anything to break that just takes away the immersion factor, reminds you you're playing a game and spoils the whole experience. Even effects like lens flare or displaying stuff on the the camera lens, like dirt or cracks, also break the immersion -- again, because they remind you you're on the other side of that lens. I want to feel like I'm there thank you very much!
The TRL video clip linked to above does break the fourth wall because Lara does look at the camera. It's just dumb; the same way we hear "Gooooooal" if she kicks that ball into the goal in Mexico. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
With all this talk of TRU being the most epic TR, with grand themes, a brooding score, dark environments and a great story, the last thing you want is some daft gimmick taking away from that.
I agree with your first point. Like on GTAIV, sometimes blood would splatter onto the screen, which was a bad idea
however, in the TRL cutscene, Lara does not break the fourth wall! She is smirking to herself, thinking "good god! These people are sent to kill me, and yet they're stood facing a wall talking about a bloody monkey! What amateurs"
but I wouldn't like the 4th wall at all in gameplay. Perhaps, like others have said, an unlockable interview with Lara about her experience in TRU
AnthonyShock1515
07-09-08, 16:31
lolage, that'd be spooky if you weren't expecting it...:rolleyes:
haha!:d
Yeah I would like that, but not as *Intense* as you said, maybe she can, like, just stare at the camera making gestures and rolling her eyes or something.
in the TRL cutscene, Lara does not break the fourth wall! She is smirking to herself, thinking "good god! These people are sent to kill me, and yet they're stood facing a wall talking about a bloody monkey! What amateurs"
We'll have to disagree on that one. :) If you watch the scene frame by frame, she is looking away from camera to begin with then her eyes shift slightly to look right at us while she smirks. It's unmistakeable.
http://i35.tinypic.com/24gt9o0.jpg
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