View Full Version : Anima Rising
In the rate the avatar above you (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=013108) thread, a couple of people have said that my avatar doesn't suit my personality. This makes me laugh, because as I've explained, it does represent an aspect of my psyche and comes from one of the stages of a picture I was working on a long time ago. At least one person said they would like to see the picture, so I'm posting a copy of it here. It is called Anima Rising and was partly inspired by the Joni Mitchell song Don't Interrupt The Sorrow (http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/DontInterruptTheSorrow.cfm).
The Anima is a number of things, 1. The soul. 2a. (in Jungian psychology) The real inner self, and 2b. The feminine inner personality, as present in the unconscious of a male. The word is the feminine form of the Latin Animus. This, amongst other things, means animating motive, intention, that which moves I suppose. It also means animosity, bitter hostility and hatred. So this picture is about all of those things in me. And more specifically that darker aspect of my personality, the dark self present in all of us (sometimes referred to in psychology as the Eidolon). Playing around, as I was, I consider this picture unfinished. Maybe because of the subject it deals with, I couldn't finish it. I just never felt able to capture something so deep. But what it attempts to convey is the emergence of this dark self (the warp behind the face) through my words (the apparently garbled text). The waveform within the text is the waveform of a name, and this persona is thus 'speaking itself into existence', or even declaring it's existence - 'I am'. The flames behind the face, and the melting Biohazard symbol on it's forehead all represent it's rage, it's venom, it's bitterness. But the blue given to these represent that these things are muted (in the sense that it is contolled or even silenced sometimes - not expressed). This is also represented by the fact the face has no eyes (eyes being the windows of the soul [self]), so self is denied. I also tried to give the face a glass-like appearance to represent the fragility of the psyche. For those with a dark monitor, you would probably have to turn up the brightness to be able to discern some of the details I've mentioned. Not surprisingly to me, many people who have seen this picture have said they don't like it. I think this is precisely because of what it represents. A dark side of self which we all seek to deny the existence of.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/manypersonae/AnimaRising.jpg
I for one love that pic http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
*goes to save it*
Everyone has a little bit of dark side in them...some more then it's expected http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif
That's a great pic, Net! I do love your avie - I've told you long before in a different thread. The face looks different in the smaller pic (the avie), but now you've shown the big picture, I can see there's the same feeling in both of them.
Nice interpretation of the image. I don't find it depressing. Everybody has a dark side, but if we pretend that it's not there and deny to accept it, there's no balance in our soul.
Deep blue is my colour, it represents so many things.
andromeda_eats
09-09-04, 07:50
I like it. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif Its mysterious and intriguing. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif Go for it!
I like it, and i said it before, you think to much! ;)
Cogito Ergo Sum. ;)
Nicky, my avie is different. It's from a pre-stage, before I removed the eyes. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I remember you saying you liked it, and that's what reminded me that some people might not be able to see the details (as you mentioned with one of your computers), because you couldn't. Thanks anyway, glad you like. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Yes, I saw that http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I had to turn on the brightness enough, so as to see that the eyes were missing from the big picture.
As I said, I think the feeling they convey is the same, but I would also add, concerning the face on the avie, that due to the existence of the eyes, it is stronger and more intense.
Also I like the combination of colours - the silvery white colour of the name contrasts the dark face, but at the same time underlines disrcetely its 'expression' http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
[ 09. September 2004, 11:03: Message edited by: Nicky ]
tlr online
16-03-05, 19:04
Just noticed your avatar is animated. Looks awesome!!
Thankies tlr http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif One of a few I tried out, mostly turning out too large.
I always liked your avatar. It looks better now that it's bigger.
burninglight
16-03-05, 19:47
net, your avatar always reminds me of the walls of tinnos (antartica, Tr3)
Yeah, it's what I wanted to do originally Elen, but with the limitation it just looked awful. So I'm very happy I've now got what I originally wanted. :D
LOL mattioz. Yeah it does me too, now that you mention it. Hehe :D
[ 16. March 2005, 21:07: Message edited by: Neteru ]
I like it a lot!
Even more now, that I know how it came to be.
(reminds me of Echnaton, though)
Mark Garcia
16-03-05, 21:06
Good stuff. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
LOL mattioz. Yeah it does me too, now that you mention it. Hehe :D [/QB]You're kidding me? The textures of Lost City of Tinnos are brown (earth colors), not black. You burninglight should know that from LE. I think you both have to set up the brightness of your monitor :D (the techie spoke http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif )
burninglight
16-03-05, 21:51
the colour may be different but they have that same sort of look on their face
I love this image and its meaning.
Thanks all for your positive feedback. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
And Elen, for her technical advice! :D
Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...
Originally posted by Neteru:
[My avatar] does represent an aspect of my psyche... Though I don't know you very well, I just know what you mean...
Originally posted by Neteru:
This is also represented by the fact the face has no eyes (eyes being the windows of the soul [self]), so self is denied. [...] A dark side of self which we all seek to deny the existence of. I'm always sceptic, looking for other ways; I can only learn to my cost. I was looking into Jung's works for a longer time, and he was a genie. Though he was only one man, only a portion of the big cake. So there are other ways too... and I found other ways. I asked myself: what if I don't deny it? What if I show it to others? The same forces are working inside all of us - they'll surely understand, won't they? A precipitate conception: anima should meet a real one. You surely know the consequences: her animus immediately confronted my anima. Fear and anger. A clear-cut case of human nature, that couldn't have happened other way. I have foreseen it, though I made it. But I still believe it could work. If we don't deny it for ourselves; on both sides. If we try to understand. Everything could be solved in a moment, with a few words, but no - rather we are suffering, lying to ourselves, denying everything. The basic wish for suffering. In turn happiness is only one step far. Saying something could make things worst. Saying nothing surely makes things worst. But saying one word could solve everything.
"Past is a puzzle, like a broken mirror. As you piece it together, you cut yourself." And you may cut others too...
Net', you can never finish it... because it changes all the time. Carving it into stone is a judgement: at the time you think you finish it, it is already something else. Stereotypes are for no good. And the ultimate picture would be a black spot, when you just let it change, and it always forms of itself. You will see it - and sharing it will seem impossible. Hypothetically.
Well, this is a Tomb Raider forum, so my expressions here are TR-related. My quote is more univocal, but my avatar not so much. We, males, who like Lara can understand her. While playing, we are Lara. It's a paradox, how a man could be a woman; this is our anima. This means we were able to find what Lara is inside us. And it was there all the time. Though she doesn't exist as a living person, she also has an inner world. (In fact our world). And this is represented by the scarab. Seemingly it is only a scarab. But those who know about it more know that it is the deepest Lara, a symbol of her real side. Her spiritual mentor, Putai taught what is really lying in her, and this was expressed with this scarab that always reminds Lara on her real powers. So, existing inside me, it is also a kind of "anima".
Finally, just a side-note: A weird and confusing experience was when I saw a documentary about the 'Queens of Samoa', the phalphaphines (I hope I spelled it correctly), who are really men, but raised as girls. For the first sight it seemed disguisting, and I only watched it because I wanted to understand. And it worthed; some things I see differently. It was unbelievable, but they are really females closed into a male body. Like a weird experiment. Jung was right. Rarely they have boyfriends too, but they are not homosexual. And their boyfriends don't consider theirselves as a homosexual either. They are all heterosexual. Crazy, huh? But this can't be explained with our common phrases. It's not that simple. But it's easy to judge...
Hey Lacek http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif Thanks for your input there. Very interesting to read.
Lacek:
Net', you can never finish it... because it changes all the time. Carving it into stone is a judgement: at the time you think you finish it, it is already something else.Ah, now thanks for that. You help me to understand the obvious that I missed. Trying to encapsulate that which is dynamic. Well of course I can't really, because it is ever changing. And that is why I can't finish it. I suppose such a thing would also represent a static fixing, and by default, would also become a form of denial because it becomes a denial of that dynamic nature.
Yes, I agree, Jung had an amazing vision. But it was still but a small aspect of the diversity of consciousness and archetypes. And as you mention having to effectively find for yourself, consciousness and archetypes become changed and personalised (and as such grow) with each personal experience. Dynamic. So there is always a different way to invesigate Self, psyche, in all it's forms.
You mention the Phalphaphines (I'll go with your spelling because I'm not sure either :D ). It just goes to show you that Self has many (even infinite) expressions. That conception is everything, and psyche cannot be restricted by the body. It doesn't strike me as crazy at all. I've said to people before 'I am not my body'. They [Phalphaphines], likewise, are not their bodies. Male as physical gender is something entirely different to what I believe is the truly sexless nature of real Self, psyche. And I think it's 'typical' (obviously) to see breaks from what is commonly held to be normal (by Westerners) from cultures not subject to Western, dogmatic concepts. Of course, people like Jung were exposed to Eastern and other cultures, and so were able the more easily to expand their minds and vision I think.
So really, what I'm getting at is, we use terms that divide, define and restrict by way of explanation. I have done so for my picture. But what I really believe is that Self Is. We [in the West] only become divided as individuals, and as societies (and experience the negative consequences of that, both personally and nationally) when we deny any one aspect of our nature. I think such negativities are not so prevalent in societies (like those of the Phalphaphines), who understand better the true nature of Self.
Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...
Net'! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif It's good to share such thougths sometimes... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif We all learn from the others.
Originally posted by Neteru:
I suppose such a thing would also represent a static fixing, and by default, would also become a form of denial because it becomes a denial of that dynamic nature.
You are right... And this is why our things don't work perfectly. Originally, the roots of western and eastern thinking were very similar. But this is western nature: trying to fix everything. As an example, let's see religions. Someone has an impression, a deep insight. Of course he/she wants to preserve and share it - fix the moment. But it is impossible, inexpressible. Though it can be big enough to become a dogma, but this already containes mistakes. Just like any of the words that try to capture the essentials. This is the problem with rules and laws too. The living law comes from inside, and it is more strict than "official" ones. It follows that they can't suit everybody. How eastern people solved this problem: they helped others to walk on a similar way, which made possible to experience the same thing for their own; no matter if the way was different - every of them leads to the same thing. A persistent thing that is behind everything. This is what I meant with that 'black spot' (of course not the colour is important here). Anyways, change is a persistent thing. ;)
Phalphaphines... I know you don't find it crazy, but may others do.
Originally posted by Neteru:
'I am not my body' That's true... but our world is only about 'body'. Noone can understand you, noone can accept you, noone can forgive you; mostly because noone cares, noone has enough patience, noone has enough time. And if you don't know yourself, you don't know anybody.
Originally posted by Neteru:
So really, what I'm getting at is, we use terms that divide, define and restrict by way of explanation. You were speaking from my heart. We can never fully understand each other, no matter how hard we try. On the other hand, people are always seeking bad intentions behind words. This is why I don't like words. Experience is everything; you can't learn from books.
I believe, self is not the ultimate reality. Self is only a stage. It has overtones that characterize us like fingerprints. What is behind is something that is the same: Heaven, Nirvana, Emptiness, etc; call it as you wish. Somewhere deep behind the self, we are all the same.
Originally posted by Neteru:
I think such negativities are not so prevalent in societies (like those of the Phalphaphines), who understand better the true nature of Self. Yes, but who's the one who decides what is positive or negative? They don't separete the two so strictly. Every of our actons is positive AND negative. This is subjective. Even your best action is bad from a point of view, and causes harm for somebody. That's inevitable. But this is not an excuse. If these people do something that is considered to be bad, they simply go on. But they never commit the same mistake again, they understand it.
Lacek:
We can never fully understand each other, no matter how hard we try.Taking that at face value, and answering it at face value too, I believe we can, with direct perception. But I think you're actually meaning something else. That each experience is unique to the individual. And as such, even if we were to perceive directly another's experience, it would still be different because the mere act of us perceiving, changes it. Is that what you were getting at?
This is why I don't like words.Because they are a symbol. An interpretation of another 'truth' (if you will). That words are a translation, and as such, automatically a distortion?
I believe, self is not the ultimate reality. Self is only a stage. It has overtones that characterize us like fingerprints. What is behind is something that is the same: Heaven, Nirvana, Emptiness, etc; call it as you wish. Somewhere deep behind the self, we are all the same.When I speak of Self (captal S), I'm not speaking of the 'I' or the ego. What you call a stage. For me, 'Self' means something much larger. What, as you say, lies behind ego 'self'. Not 'I', but 'I am', or 'Being'. And in personal terms, it is [we are] Self as differentiations of a greater Self, which some call 'God'. I don't like such a loaded, distorted and dogmatised term, and so personally prefer to call it 'All That Is'. And it also follows, as you say, that we are all the same. For me, there is an Unity. We are One.
Yes, but who's the one who decides what is positive or negative?What I was talking about by using the word 'negative' were expressions of violence born of the denial of the expression of Self (particularly by males). In connection with the Phalphaphines who are 'males' allowed to express their 'femininity' (and with similar societies) such expressions of violence are negligible if non-existent. Whereas, in the West, where males are not allowed (generally speaking) to express their 'feminine' nature (i.e. indoctrinated into the strange conception that males cannot express so called female traits such as caring, creating, crying or nurturing), the occurrence of violence is much much higher. And I'm saying that this violence ([i]which for me is negative), is directly the result of such strange dogma. Men in the West want to express themselves as they truly are, but are told by society at large that this is not acceptable. As a consequence, and in extreme frustration, they lash out.
It is no surprise to me that (again, in the West), the incidences of violence on the part of women has risen considerably in recent years - in concert with efforts by women to be more like men at the almost total expense of their 'female' expression.
Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...
Originally posted by Neteru:
Is that what you were getting at? Well, not exactly. We can never understand each other by using words. This is what I wanted to say. And for the direct perception you also need some skills, but people don't take the trouble to learn those. So it's not so easy. But you are right of course. Where I wanted to get at that experiences can be exactly the same, only the way of perception is different. Every way goes through the same points, leading to the same thing. And ways are rarely a straight line. Moreover the straight line is not always the quickest or easiest way.
As I see, words are not symbols anymore for a long time. They already lost their real meaning. Friendship, morality, etc... words that lost their value and meaning. Just ask somebody what they mean - he/she won't know an answer. That is why everybody explains everything a little bit differently, that leads to misunderstandings. In the old worls words had such power! Now nothing has remained of it.
Originally posted by Neteru:
That words are a translation, and as such, automatically a distortion? Yes, and they are distorted also for us who perceive something. Simply because we can understand the whole experience only at the moments of perception. Right after that the meaning is already blurred a little bit, and it gets worst with the time. And until you get to the point to express it... *sigh* There are people who have excellent skills in expressing things (unfortunately I'm not one of them), but also their translation is distorted. Only less than ours.
Originally posted by Neteru:
When I speak of Self (captal S), I'm not speaking of the 'I' or the ego. See? This is a very good example for what I am talking about all the time. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif With different terms, but we are talking about exactly the same thing. And now that I know about your way of thinking, I can see your points, because they are my points, only I use other terms to express it. So we made "double-posts" because of this "misunderstanding" what is really an understanding.
God being a "loaded, distorted and dogmatised term"... It's "only" a word, Net'. There's no need to dislike it, just like feasts or anything. This is also a kind of denial, which is also a basic human instint. The important thing is what the word covers. You can call it other ways, but it will be still the same. Like in case of a different language. You say God, and I say Isten, but the two are the same. This was never a problem. I often use such "loaded" terms if I see it is better than how I could express it or I want to say it easier. People will know. It's not the fault of words. It's ours.
"All that is": it is very similar to what God said in the Bible. I can't translate is in 2nd person because of the "poor" tools of english (or I should read an english Bible), but in 3rd person it sounds: He/she is that is. So it's not far from your interpretation, though there's a big difference in meaning seemingly, that comes from the different cultures. But the essences are the same. Anyways, for me there's also a Unity, only I call it differently. Since it has the same meaning, it is not even necessary to mention... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Originally posted by Neteru:
It is no surprise to me that (again, in the West), the incidences of violence on the part of women has risen considerably in recent years - in concert with efforts by women to be more like men at the almost total expense of their 'female' expression. Society has a great influence, this is true. In our days usually not even parents can do against it in case of their children - in other cases they case the problems. I'm a teacher, I like children, but they keep disappoint me... :( Lately some 13 years young guys set an old man on fire after a trip in the pub and kicking him nearly to death! But returning to the quote, don't forget that what is anima in males, that is animus in females. So they are "female phalphaphines". None of them is better. The ideal estate is the balance between the anima and animus with a control and consciousness over them. This is the only solution, and extremities should be better avoided, because they lead to "malfunctions".
Hehe It's so funny in reading some of the things you've said, because you say 'No, I meant...' and I'm thinking 'yes, I know, that's what I meant too'! :D
I'll just make a couple of points. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Lacek:
God being a "loaded, distorted and dogmatised term"... It's "only" a word, Net'.You talk of how words have lost their meaning. I understand your point. I agree in so far as (generally speaking) they don't seem to carry as much power, like you said, as they once did. But for me, on this particular word (along with many), it's not just a word. It is full of meaning and power. It has behind it a whole host of ideas. Ideas that I profoundly disagree with, which is why I wouldn't use it.
...don't forget that what is anima in males, that is animus in females...None of them is better. The ideal estate is the balance between the anima and animus with a control and consciousness over them. This is the only solution, and extremities should be better avoided, because they lead to "malfunctions".Yes. This is why I said "at the expense of", inferring a corresponding imbalance. i.e. if we try to express only 'masculine' or only 'feminine' it's an imbalance that leads to "malfunctions". So we agree there. Psyche is truly male and female at the same time. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...
Originally posted by Neteru:
Hehe It's so funny in reading some of the things you've said, because you say 'No, I meant...' and I'm thinking 'yes, I know, that's what I meant too'! :D It's good to hear this. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif It means that we agree and understand each other. Rarely happens to me...
Originally posted by Neteru:
But for me, on this particular word (along with many), it's not just a word. It is full of meaning and power. It has behind it a whole host of ideas. Ideas that I profoundly disagree with, which is why I wouldn't use it.
"It has behind a whole host of ideas", which were added by other people. And you can't decide what they meant with them. It's not even important; you don't have to agree them. But the original, true meaning, without these associations (which disturb you) is equal to any other terms. In this sense, I think we can use them. (Though the common meaning is far from their way of thinking, eastern people also use it, of course with the original meaning). And other people think what they want, they can add their associations that you can't change...
Hi Lacek http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif
"You say TomAYto, I say TomAHto, let's call the whole thing off" :D http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif
Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...
LOL! Good idea! ;) :D Thanks for sharing thoughts! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif
[ 18. March 2005, 20:54: Message edited by: Lacek ]
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