View Full Version : Concerning future TR's camara system
Camara is TR currently big issue;)
Personally I don't have any problems with it when it comes to run around but in jump sequences like those in TRA Palace Midas Fire Room where you need to stop Lara to turn the camara lossing time aswell....
I would like to have a camara that I could move with the mouse when stoping Lara and to move automatically according to her turns, etc.. To follow her instead of having to be us to turn it.
And what about those "blind" jumps where you can't see the way, these camera positions are trully annoying, gotta be fixed:)
I think they're trying too hard with their "way cool" camera. They should make it simpler, really give us control... If I move the mouse the slightest bit, the automatics should keep their mouths shut for more than 1 frame. -_- It just needs to be less epileptic and more epic.
1. Don't make me fight what the game wants me to see with what I want to see. If I say I want the camera here, put it here!
2. Let me control the zoom-in and zoom out feature. Because while zooming in does have its time and place, the game system is often too stupid to know when that time and place is. Too many times I've needed a wide shot of the whole situation, and the game wants to zoom in right on Lara's mid-riff. Don't get me wrong, Lara has a great mid-riff, but I'm trying to line up a tricky jump and Lara's mid-riff just isn't helping.
3. Let me see where I'm jumping. Nothing is more annoying than when I have to jump to a place behind Lara, I move the camera all the way to the right, I see nothing. I move it all the way to the left, I see nothing. Up, down, all around...useless. Then I fall into the blue insta-death! :hea: If I have to jump somewhere, make sure I can see where I'm jumping.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it....
With the classics (PS versions) you had a fixed camera and a separate 'look' button to allow you to check you perspective. In my opinion it has never been bettered and a camera lock system suits the TR genre perfectly, nice and simple to use, less buttons (one hand can turn and move) and adds to the atmosphere. Having a decent 'proper' TR engine (no stick on ledges) and a human acting avatar helps as well.
If your going to have a 'behind camera' third person game then you need to have a camera lock...end of. If not, stick the camera higher up so the different directions count for something. Downside is...TR is not a Mario type (3D) game where the high up perspective is relevent to the gameplay.
I think that the Underworld camera should stay, and the look button should re-appear. The look camera should be in front of Lara's eyes so that you don't see the inside of her head. I think that if this feature does come back, then Lara should be able to move while in this state.
Forum Quorum
29-11-08, 16:13
In future games Eidos will make sure cutting-edge technology is used for the TR "camara";
http://www.clevelandseniors.com/images/events/wews-60th/old-wews-camera.jpg
Danny Blazy
29-11-08, 16:39
Just bring back Legend/Anniversary's camera (I didn't have any problem with them). :D Simple as that.
Eddie Haskell
29-11-08, 16:43
If it ain't broke, don't fix it....
With the classics (PS versions) you had a fixed camera and a separate 'look' button to allow you to check you perspective. In my opinion it has never been bettered and a camera lock system suits the TR genre perfectly, nice and simple to use, less buttons (one hand can turn and move) and adds to the atmosphere. Having a decent 'proper' TR engine (no stick on ledges) and a human acting avatar helps as well.
If your going to have a 'behind camera' third person game then you need to have a camera lock...end of. If not, stick the camera higher up so the different directions count for something. Downside is...TR is not a Mario type (3D) game where the high up perspective is relevent to the gameplay.
Bingo...Give the man the prize! ;) :)
In future games Eidos will make sure cutting-edge technology is used for the TR "camara";
http://www.clevelandseniors.com/images/events/wews-60th/old-wews-camera.jpg
I'm sure it'd still be better than the actual "camara" we have.
The camera was fine from TR1 - 5. Went downhill with AOD, and it seems like it's doomed to stay downhill.
I'd really appreciate a camera system that is fixed; behind Lara at all times, however, we can still move it about whenever we feel like it. But, when the player makes the first step, the camera goes behind Lara to show the best view; where the player/Lara is facing. Should the player want to look elsewhere, they can always move the camera or turn Lara.
DITCH THE MANUAL CAMERA SYSTEM.
What is the blimmin' point of having a camera that is both manual AND automatic? You try and move IT, and IT decides to move as well.
The BEST THING about the original Tomb Raiders was the great control scheme that we could totally focus our mind on and let the camera do its thing, 95% not getting in the way of our progress (rather than 50%).
I don't see why improving graphics seems to go hand in hand with forcing us to control the camera as well...?
Eddie Haskell
29-11-08, 23:55
DITCH THE MANUAL CAMERA SYSTEM.
What is the blimmin' point of having a camera that is both manual AND automatic? You try and move IT, and IT decides to move as well.
The BEST THING about the original Tomb Raiders was the great control scheme that we could totally focus our mind on and let the camera do its thing, 95% not getting in the way of our progress (rather than 50%).
I don't see why improving graphics seems to go hand in hand with forcing us to control the camera as well...?
I don't know what they were thinking exactly, but even in the demo there were times when the camera and I were playing different games. And you're exactly right Bowie, either make it a completely manual camera that only does what you want it to do all of the time (including a complete 360° view), or go back to the tried and true method that worked. The original camera also has the added bonus of increased immersion into the character.
I really hope they include an option for the classic camera. You could still use the right analog stick (or mouse) to look around, but that would be the only time the camera angle would move from behind Lara (save for the instances when it needs to show something like a door opening or when Lara has her guns locked on an enemy). This would give people complete control over what they want to see, not being forced to look in a certain direction and showing you where to move Lara next. This option certainly adds more challenge and lessens the hand holding.
Something Crystal should really consider in addtion to putting manual grab and "no checkpoints" options in there.
ccroft2003
30-11-08, 09:50
Yes, fix the the flamin camera behind Lara and then it should only move if we want it to and it should stay there. A camera will be doing its job properly when you DON'T have to move it!
Also the camera movements in TRU were so eratic. If lara moved down from one hold to another the camera moved quickly too. Made me feel sick!
Moon-Safari
30-11-08, 10:06
I really don't see why it can't just go back to the classic "behind Lara's head" camera. I always felt comfortable looking around by running in the direction I want to see. It kept you in the game because you saw what Lara was looking at in that moment. Is it outdated to anyone else, because I personally feel like an updated version of the classic camera would be perfect.
Yes fixed camera. That would allows us to perform some jumps better like we did in the classics without having to turn the camera. Ok I forgot about the Look about, bring it back :D
TombRaiderLover
30-11-08, 12:33
Why not have it fixed behind Lara, like Core did with Free Running (which used the same engine as TRAE) Then we could use the right analogue stick to look at Lara's surroundings (like the "Look" feature in the early games.)
Free Running gameplay
AM9AG_yS28k
Eddie Haskell
30-11-08, 14:09
I really don't see why it can't just go back to the classic "behind Lara's head" camera. I always felt comfortable looking around by running in the direction I want to see. It kept you in the game because you saw what Lara was looking at in that moment. Is it outdated to anyone else, because I personally feel like an updated version of the classic camera would be perfect.
I know that you want the classic camera, but for those who wonder; what's outdated about a camera that lets you see what YOU want to see, when YOU want to see it? And a camera that places you back inside of the character, not hovering around your "puppet" like a bumblebee on steroids. Simply because a camera technique was used before, doesn't make it passé or obsolete.
Keep the camera free!
when Lara is standing on a ledge with her back against the wall, I can't look ahead! where's the logic in that!?
Eddie Haskell
30-11-08, 14:14
Keep the camera free!
when Lara is standing on a ledge with her back against the wall, I can't look ahead! where's the logic in that!?
Why couldn't you? Your eyes are looking forward, aren't they? In the demo of Underworld (I have not played the complete game yet) when you were standing as you said, you could not see forward either. The best you could do was look 90° from your position.
The game should never take control of the camera. keep it free at all time. it is vital for how you move Lara.
Why not have it fixed behind Lara, like Core did with Free Running (which used the same engine as TRAE) Then we could use the right analogue stick to look at Lara's surroundings (like the "Look" feature in the early games.)
Free Running gameplay
AM9AG_yS28k
:tmb: That would be terrific
Eddie Haskell
30-11-08, 14:25
The game should never take control of the camera. keep it free at all time. it is vital for how you move Lara.
I think you do not understand, perhaps you never played the classic games. The game does not control the camera, you do because you control Lara. The camera is tied into what Lara is looking at. So if you choose to look at something, you can. Instead of a disembodied camera, you get a 3rd person view of what your character is seeing, albeit with a larger viewable area due to the 3rd person behind vantage point.
The point you made about the ledge is invalid, as I said you could not see in front of you. However, in tight places most cameras run into problems. The best solution to these problems is switching to a first person view when the situation calls for it; specifically in the ledge situation you speak to.
Free Running gameplay
AM9AG_yS28k
Now THAT'S the kind of "explore everywhere" I would love to see in future TR games.:tmb:
It's crazy how similar some of those animations look compared to TRL/TRA (like the forward flip, stretching and pole swinging).
Just bring back Legend/Anniversary's camera (I didn't have any problem with them). :D Simple as that.
Neither did the majority of players or critics, but for some reason CD thought it was necessary to revamp it completely and tard it up. :rolleyes:
Bring back the Legend/Anniversary camera plz.
TombRaiderLover
30-11-08, 19:15
Neither did the majority of players or critics, but for some reason CD thought it was necessary to revamp it completely and tard it up. :rolleyes:
Bring back the Legend/Anniversary camera plz.
I was playing Anniversary today and the camera bugged the hell out of me. I'd run towards a ledge ready to jump, and the camera would suddenly drift off in another direction so I'd fall to my death!
I was playing Anniversary today and the camera bugged the hell out of me. I'd run towards a ledge ready to jump, and the camera would suddenly drift off in another direction so I'd fall to my death!
Well, I've never experienced any problems like that, but it's still no reason to make the camera the way they did in Underworld.
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