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EmeraldFields
07-12-08, 02:16
I have found a well thought through video on the subject here. However, it does feature some personal commentary on the subject...


Z_8wbZtGuVY


Personally, I think that dealing with terrorists is a very sticky situation because one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. I have no sure fire solution for the problem either. I think that diplomacy is and should always be the first and best option.

Anyway, the question I'm asking you is "How do we deal with terrorists?"

Bowie
07-12-08, 02:18
Ignore it.

Paddy
07-12-08, 02:18
Thing is not to worry about it.
Being paranoid about it wont stop any potential attack, if it happens you deal with it from there, living in fear isnt the way to go nor do people deserve it.

ajrich17901
07-12-08, 02:24
To not show fear , cuz thats taken the power away from the people who think there scaring ya. Live your life, dont let them run it.

ivannnnn
07-12-08, 02:25
Emerald, I think you have posted it long time ago. :confused:

EmeraldFields
07-12-08, 02:28
Emerald, I think you have posted it long time ago. :confused:

Really? I'll go back and check on it!:)

EDIT: Nope. I checked all of the threads that I've created and none about terrorism.:)

Shrantellatessa
07-12-08, 02:40
By stopping the brainless attacks and stereotypes against Islam and Muslims, by finding a universal and unique defition for "terrorism" which would be unbiased for the strong states, by including "state terrorism" in the definition, by not over-reacting, not using anti-terrorist policies as a pretext to invade sovereign states and kill innocent people, by giving poor countries better development aid (Without imposing nonsense political conditionality), by helping them implement structural adjustments and governance policies and enhance their health and education systems.

EmeraldFields
07-12-08, 02:42
By stopping the brainless attacks and stereotypes against Islam and Muslims, by finding a universal and unique defition for "terrorism" which would be unbiased for the strong states, by including "state terrorism" in the definition, by not over-reacting, not using anti-terrorist policies as a pretext to invade sovereign states and kill innocent people, by giving poor countries better development aid (Without imposing nonsense political conditionality), by helping them implement structural adjustments and governance policies and enhance their health and education systems.

Finally an answer I was looking for!:tmb:

Shrantellatessa
07-12-08, 02:47
Finally an answer I was looking for!:tmb:

^ You're welcome :hug: And I must add mutual religious, cultural, and racial understanding through the creation and intensification of academic exchanges, cultural events, and don't forget the crucial role of the media.

Spong
07-12-08, 04:16
Ignore it.

Seconded. If you do anything more than that then the terrorists are already halfway to winning.

Paddy
07-12-08, 04:36
By stopping the brainless attacks and stereotypes against Islam and Muslims, by finding a universal and unique defition for "terrorism" which would be unbiased for the strong states, by including "state terrorism" in the definition, by not over-reacting, not using anti-terrorist policies as a pretext to invade sovereign states and kill innocent people, by giving poor countries better development aid (Without imposing nonsense political conditionality), by helping them implement structural adjustments and governance policies and enhance their health and education systems.

That is a good point.
Racism and stereotyping is something that can contribute to terrorism, not just terrorism but massacres too.
Being made to feel an outcast does that to some.

Goose
07-12-08, 06:25
You must remember that terrorism and insurgency have become mixed lately, due to the way insurgents have started to act (killing as many civilians as possible, as opposed to infrastructure targets), but traditionally they werent so closely linked.

A traditional terrorist group who takes hostages and demands somthing, usually outragous, is impossible to ignore. And normally the best resolution is a rescue attempt that involves killing as many of them as quickly as possible, like the Iranian Embassy, or, to some extent, the Moscow theater seige (except the part where they forgot to put the civilians in the recovery position, and alot asphixated). The terrorists had a massive upper hand, but they still were not capable or reacting to a planned assault by professionals, and lost there lives as a result of there stupidity.

The only way to deal with Insurgents is to take away the fear they use to control the local population, be weary of local customs, and help societies develop, soon people will come to rely on you, and when they see the insurgents are trying to drive you away, taking all the somtimes life saving benefits with you, they will have the guts to help out. Hearts and minds opperations take years, and a violent society wont welcome it as much, as Iraq has shown compared to the traditional attitutes in Afghanistan of welcoming those who come to help.

Iranian embassy: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=141468&page=2
Moscow Theater Seige: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CU1n5_6-afU

Nefertiti_89
08-12-08, 08:15
Ignore it.
Agreed!

By acknowledging it you give them what they want...and yes people would die ignoring it, but look how many have died because we haven't. I mean, what if we ignored it and they had've stopped by now, imagine how many lives would have been saved.

Buffy87
08-12-08, 10:43
I agree with the "ignore it" sentiments being posted to an extent. Ignore it to the extent of not letting it affect how you live your life - for example after the London train bombings I didn't think twice about taking the Leeds- London train. The way I see it if you stop doing things that you would usually do .. like travel by train/plane whatever , then they've won. They've caused you to change how you live your life - making yourself fearful of doing certain things. And to me thats an unhealthy way to live your life - as morbid as it might sound if Im going to get blown up or whatever.. then thats the way my life was supposed to end and Im not going to stop doing somethign for fear that I might get blown up. They win then and Ive missed out on whatever travel/opportunity I would have had for fear of being blown up or whatever. Thats not a very eloquent way of putting things I know.

However... I would say that on a whole we should be careful not to tar all memebers of a specific race/culture with the same brush as terrorists because not every memeber of every race/culture is going to agree with what is being done.And I think that as has been said we have to be careful not to let the actions of specific individuals affect our perceptions of a race/culture on a whole.

Archetype
08-12-08, 10:47
Target extremism

Admles
08-12-08, 11:00
Hmmmmmmm...........

Don't negotiate with terrorists

Don't use it as an excuse to attack other countries

Punaxe
08-12-08, 14:41
Fighting a war for a certain cause is one thing, but one of the biggest problems with "terrorists" I'd say is that they do not adhere to the rules of engagement and the Geneva Conventions et cetera, which is a situation our institutions of political force aren't used to at all. For example, when Hussein was caught, according to conventional logic, the war was over. The terrorists however do not seem to live by the same logic, and definitely not by the same rules. We currently cannot win as we could win from other enemies, because definitions "winning" and "losing" as we know it just don't seem to apply...

petujaymz
08-12-08, 15:20
Where's Mad Tony? He's got all the answers.

"I ♥ America."

Wise beyond his years...

The answer should go without saying; address the causes.

Call them extremists, terrorists... whatever.

If they truly believe their cause is just then bombing them into submission is never going to work.

:wve:

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 16:33
Ignore it.I'm afraid I don't agree. If steps weren't taken to improve aviation security after 9/11, I'm sure another similar thing would've occurred.

Target extremismExactly :tmb:

Where's Mad Tony? He's got all the answers.

"I ♥ America."Aaah, another silly little off-topic comment from you? What a surprise...

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:05
Exactly :tmb:

Alright then.

*Calls airtower.*

This is Captain Catapharact calling. Requesting air strike designation and elimination of target located at vector three niner niner.

Target goes by the name of Mad Tony.

Execute with extreme lethality.

Lara's home
08-12-08, 17:10
I think it's only the U.S that makes their citizens fear the terrorist. I'm not really worried about them tbh.

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:13
I think it's only the U.S that makes their citizens fear the terrorist. I'm not really worried about them tbh.

Really...

How about Spain and the Basque Sepretists? How about cultisit Narco groups like the Shining path and how the entire South American region knows of how dangerous they are? How about Narco terrorist groups related to the Mafia organizations?

So a proverbial slap for jumping to conclusions.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 17:20
Alright then.

*Calls airtower.*

This is Captain Catapharact calling. Requesting air strike designation and elimination of target located at vector three niner niner.

Target goes by the name of Mad Tony.

Execute with extreme lethality.What's that got to do with tackling extremism?

Quasimodo
08-12-08, 17:21
What's that got to do with tackling extremism?

It was a thinly veiled way of calling you an extremist :)

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:23
It was a thinly veiled way of calling you an extremist :)

Vieled? I would have thought he would have picked up on it quickly. Boy am I wrong.

Sometimes I give people way too much credit.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 17:24
It was a thinly veiled way of calling you an extremist :)Oh yeah, now I remember. Apparently I'm an extremist :vlol:

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:25
Oh yeah, now I remember. Apparently I'm an extremist :vlol:


Face it Tony. If I were to ask you on exact political events surrounding current situation, all I am gonna get is a butt load of opinions with nothing to back it up but thinly supported argumentation like a house of cards waiting to fall ;).

Ergo, yes I do call you an extremist. And you have a long way to go to redeem yourself.

rowanlim
08-12-08, 17:27
Terrorism...Sometimes I'd say seek them out & bomb the hell away. Sometimes I think fighting fire with fire won't work. I'd say the best weapon is to know that they are poop & let them know it too. That can happen if we can educate everyone that they are not doing the right thing & we shouldn't support them. Idealistic, eh?

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:30
Terrorism...Sometimes I'd say seek them out & bomb the hell away. Sometimes I think fighting fire with fire won't work. I'd say the best weapon is to know that they are poop & let them know it too. That can happen if we can educate everyone that they are not doing the right thing & we shouldn't support them. Idealistic, eh?


People forget about rule 1 of counter terrorism; Stay one chess move ahead all the time.

India was way too slow to react when it came to excahnge of critical information. The terrorists in question were already spotted and by law they were inflitrating soverign waters and should have been placed under arrest. What does Indian naval intelligence do? They let them pass... Uh, remember that this is the same navy that opened fire on a civilian ship occupied by pirates because they thought that the pirates were attacking them.

Why not apply the same gusto to this situation?

rowanlim
08-12-08, 17:37
Ah would I be wrong to say that the problem with governments carrying counter-terrorism moves are not very efficient at it? For whatever reasons there may be.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 17:39
Face it Tony. If I were to ask you on exact political events surrounding current situation, all I am gonna get is a butt load of opinions with nothing to back it up but thinly supported argumentation like a house of cards waiting to fall ;).

Ergo, yes I do call you an extremist. And you have a long way to go to redeem yourself.That's not extremism.

This is extremism

"One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extremist

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:42
the problem with governments carrying counter-terrorism moves are not very efficient at it?

Its because (just like the video said) governments out of fear of public scrutiny try to treat it as an act of war and find ways to frame another country for it when these terrorist organizations might not even be funded by local means. The number 1 source of funding for MOST terrorist organizations is illegal trade of any kind anywhere from drug smuggling to arms dealing to pirating, etc. etc.

THAT problem however is too big for one government alone to tackle and the citizens of a country need to realize that.

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:44
"One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extremist

And your actions do define that Tony. A standerdized norm has the solidity of reasonable grounds and proof. Laws and justifiable actions exist because there is ample proof and reason to back it up... Not opinion (for if it were opinion, we would have been living in the feudal ages right now.) Your views usually lack that proof and reason.

Capiche?

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 17:47
Backing up arguments with opinion isn't extremism (although I don't think I do that anyway). I can't think of a word to describe it but I'm sure there's one out there.

An extremist is somebody who holds extreme beliefs. I do not hold extreme beliefs.

This is going off-topic really. The way to deal with terrorism (at least in Britain anyway) is to stop extremist clerics preaching in mosques and brainwashing people.

rowanlim
08-12-08, 17:48
Its because (just like the video said) governments out of fear of public scrutiny try to treat it as an act of war and find ways to frame another country for it when these terrorist organizations might not even be funded by local means. The number 1 source of funding for MOST terrorist organizations is illegal trade of any kind anywhere from drug smuggling to arms dealing to pirating, etc. etc.

THAT problem however is too big for one government alone to tackle and the citizens of a country need to realize that.

That's true. People support them too, because they don't know that these groups are fighting for a bad cause. It's like how they drag people in to be suicide bombers & all that.

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:53
Tony I already gave you the differentiation between norm and extremism based upon the burden of proof, reason and ultalitarianism yet you still fail to see it and sideline the given subject with deinal that doesn't have a strong argument.

Your arguments lack and solid reasonable factual transpondence MOST of the time. That makes a given argument "un" reasonable. An "un" reasonable argument cannot be placed upon the ideal of norm since it doesn't have strong factual grounds to back it up. Ergo, its not the norm.

Hence its outworlish and extreme since there is nothing to back up that given idea but "belief." That is extremism 101. THAT is what dictatorships, terrorist groups, and extremist organizations place their foundation upon.

Punaxe
08-12-08, 17:56
But is extremism necessarily a bad thing, then? It only becomes a problem if it is wrongly acted upon, and pretty much everything becomes a problem if it is wrongly acted upon.

Catapharact
08-12-08, 17:59
That's true. People support them too, because they don't know that these groups are fighting for a bad cause. It's like how they drag people in to be suicide bombers & all that.

And its usually politically related... Or financially related. Your mass load of suacide bombers that have been attacking targets in Iraq, Afganistan, and recently, in India are people who are in dire personal, financial or physical turmoil and they turn to terror organzations to fullfill those obligations rather then turning to their own government. In most cases, the instability of a given government promotes terrorism. Hence it should be the first and foremost obligation of ANY government is to place a system of governce in place that people can turn to and have faith in.

I know its a "no duh!" statement of fact since that is what governments should be doing. However, given the situation in third world nations, that stability is greatly under scrutiny.

Catapharact
08-12-08, 18:01
But is extremism necessarily a bad thing, then? It only becomes a problem if it is wrongly acted upon, and pretty much everything becomes a problem if it is wrongly acted upon.


And hence people need to learn the meaning of the word. A skydiver for instance can be called an extremist. A thrill seeker can be called an extremist, etc. etc. People need to distinguish between extremism as theory and extremisim in practice.

rowanlim
08-12-08, 18:02
@Punaxe: Yeah true. Couldn't agree more :)

@Cat: Yeah, I agree, these terrorists really take advantage of the situation they are in now: desperate people, corrupt governments & the like. No doubt the government is suppose to provide that squirrel-happy utopia for everyone but yeah they can't & here's the mess.

Neteru
08-12-08, 18:02
Cat man, will you stop double posting, before I kick you in the shins!

Catapharact
08-12-08, 18:05
Cat man, will you stop double posting, before I kick you in the shins!


But... I wanna bend some rules *le sniff.*

Ok, ok me sorry.

Lara's home
08-12-08, 18:17
Really...

How about Spain and the Basque Sepretists? How about cultisit Narco groups like the Shining path and how the entire South American region knows of how dangerous they are? How about Narco terrorist groups related to the Mafia organizations?

So a proverbial slap for jumping to conclusions.

Ashamed. :(

Nefertiti_89
09-12-08, 01:31
Backing up arguments with opinion isn't extremism (although I don't think I do that anyway). I can't think of a word to describe it but I'm sure there's one out there.

I believe its called arguing ones opinion - most people proceed to back up their opinion with fact, also known as corroborating evidence, the thing is, you often dont, either because there is no evidence, or because you cant be bothered looking(?).

An extremist is somebody who holds extreme beliefs. I do not hold extreme beliefs.

This is going off-topic really. The way to deal with terrorism (at least in Britain anyway) is to stop extremist clerics preaching in mosques and brainwashing people.

Lol....ah you don't even realise that that statement is exactly what Catapharact is referring to when saying you're extremeist do you? Ah you are so young!

There is no proof to back that statement up, and it is your belief that that is what is required to solve terrorism problems in Britain.

Not to mention the statement in itself is a bit extreme to anyone who isn't right wing - I mean how on earth would you stop 'extremist' preachers totally, how would you even be able to figure out which ones were extremist or not without stopping all of them and thus discriminating against all muslim people? You cant just decide a cleric is extremist and then stop them, especially if the world cant seem to actually agree on a definition of the word! Surely if history has taught us nothing its that underground movements do exist, and occur when people are not allowed to do something in public, or feel jilted by society and thus feel the need to rebel. So, when you think about it, if these 'extremist clerics' you speak of got a wiff of the Governments plot to stop them from preaching and "brainwashing", do you honestly think they would stay practicing out in the open? It would have to be the most covert operation in history to be effective.

AND THEN there are such things as Christian extremist groups, so to say stopping clerics in mosques is .... well not only discrimination, but potentially offensive to our muslim friends here.

wantafanta
09-12-08, 04:18
Neteru - your avatar is creeping me out. Please consider an alternate.

You combat terrorism by having a sensible foreign policy. Stop supporting corrupt dictators. Stop plotting assassinations. Stop the meddling in other countries' affairs. You don't see terrorism in Sweden, do you? Nor in Canada, Greenland, Finland, Iceland, Portugal, Wales, Poland.... Why not? Because those countries mind their own business. Anybody knows, you don't get rid of cockroaches by stepping on them. You take out the trash. Then they won't come around. Same thing with world affairs. You stick your nose in the middle east bees nest where it doesn't belong, it's only a matter of time before you get stung.
As Salam Walekum!

EscondeR
09-12-08, 05:16
Neteru - your avatar is creeping me out. Please consider an alternate.


The intended functionality shouldn't be fixed :mis:

Mad Tony
09-12-08, 06:10
I believe its called arguing ones opinion - most people proceed to back up their opinion with fact, also known as corroborating evidence, the thing is, you often dont, either because there is no evidence, or because you cant be bothered looking(?).



Lol....ah you don't even realise that that statement is exactly what Catapharact is referring to when saying you're extremeist do you? Ah you are so young!

There is no proof to back that statement up, and it is your belief that that is what is required to solve terrorism problems in Britain.

Not to mention the statement in itself is a bit extreme to anyone who isn't right wing - I mean how on earth would you stop 'extremist' preachers totally, how would you even be able to figure out which ones were extremist or not without stopping all of them and thus discriminating against all muslim people? You cant just decide a cleric is extremist and then stop them, especially if the world cant seem to actually agree on a definition of the word! Surely if history has taught us nothing its that underground movements do exist, and occur when people are not allowed to do something in public, or feel jilted by society and thus feel the need to rebel. So, when you think about it, if these 'extremist clerics' you speak of got a wiff of the Governments plot to stop them from preaching and "brainwashing", do you honestly think they would stay practicing out in the open? It would have to be the most covert operation in history to be effective.

AND THEN there are such things as Christian extremist groups, so to say stopping clerics in mosques is .... well not only discrimination, but potentially offensive to our muslim friends here.That's your opinion

Yes, I know Cat was referring to me. However, I'm talking about religious extremists here, you know, the ones who preach hate, indoctrinate people and encourage violence? Not people who can't back up arguments with facts (although I don't think I do that anyway).

And there have been many cases of extreme Muslim clerics preaching hate and aiming to brainwash young Muslims. I didn't just base that argument on opinion. Maybe it's not something that happens in Australia but it certainly does here. Oh, and before people start misinterpreting my words: I know that the majority of Imams in Britain are probably fine, but there are however a few dangerous Imams that preach hate and terror in British mosques.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2668049.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/19/uksecurity.ukcrime?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E6DF143DF933A05757C0A9629C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/pressure-grows-to-prosecute-islamic-cleric-may-be-deported-755919.html

Targeting extreme Muslim clerics has nothing to do with political orientation, it's about stopping them preaching hate and indoctrinating young Muslims into terrorist organizations.

Why is it discriminatory? Going after extreme Christians wont help deal with terrorism, which is exactly what this thread is about. Right now the terrorists we're having problems with in this country are the radical extreme Muslims, not radical extreme Christians.

You've gotta learn that targeting extreme Muslim clerics is not a target on Islam. Most Muslims oppose the actions of the fundamental extremist Muslims anyway.