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View Full Version : A policeman shots a 15 years old boy and kills him(GREECE)


kimonap
07-12-08, 17:45
I CANT BELIEVE IT!:( He was at his friends party and he heard sounds from outside ! There was chaos and yound people were destroying everything!A policeman was mad and fired a couple of times and while the boy was walking ....he died....the policeman shot him !:( And they didnt even call an ambulance...they called his mother by boys cell phone and told her to go to the hospital!

This sucks! Acording to in.gr : (I translated it on google) the damage is at the center of Athens.

The minor diakomistike by ambulance to the Evangelismos hospital, where his death was found.

The two special guards who patrol the epevainan were suspended, arrested and interrogated in the Department of Crimes Against the Safety of Life Attica.



According to initial information from the Police against the patrol, with a crew of two specific guards, a group of 25-30 people attacked with stones and wood.

However, unconfirmed information from the area Antiauthoritarian speak of word diapliktismo police with a group of young people who threw beer bottles against them.

After the initial episode, the crew of the patrol car parking on Ch Trkoupi and headed for the group of juveniles.

In yet unexplained circumstances, one of the two guards shot three times with the service of the gun, causing the fatal injury of 16 years old boy.

After the tragic incident signaled alarm. Antiauthoritarian squads and SWAT gathered in the broader region of Exarcheion Polytechnic and thus conflicts break out.

Powder keg all night was the situation both in Athens and other major cities. :cen:So far there is no precise record, but many banks, shops and many police departments in Athens and the region were in flames or damaged.
Source : http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=965217

Atlantisfreak666
07-12-08, 17:50
That's disgraceful!
:mad:

kimonap
07-12-08, 17:51
That's disgraceful!
:mad:

YOU cant IMAGINE how much I HATE POLICE NOW!

Mad Tony
07-12-08, 18:11
YOU cant IMAGINE how much I HATE POLICE NOW!Why do you hate the entire police force just because of the actions of one man?

Accord to the BBC article on it, it wasn't unprovoked.

In a statement, the police said their patrol car had been attacked by about 30 youths throwing stones. They were attacked again and responded, with one firing a stun grenade and the other shooting and fatally wounding the boy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7770086.stm

I think what the rioters are doing is absolutely appalling. They're just as bad as the policeman they're "protesting" against.

EmeraldFields
07-12-08, 18:20
If the kids didn't have weapons there shouldn't have been shots fired.

la-la-lara
07-12-08, 18:20
Koumis - Kanellopoulou, now in a brand new edition. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Greece#1980s)

I'm not even capable of expressing how this makes us all Greeks feel.
May the policeman's lifelong guilt be stronger than any punishment allowable.

@ Mad Tony: This one's not a "sporadic fact".
This is not America. You cannot fire your weapon against a 15 year-old boy. End of story.

Mad Tony
07-12-08, 18:33
@ Mad Tony: This one's not a "sporadic fact".
This is not America. You cannot fire your weapon against a 15 year-old boy. End of story.This isn't something that happens regularly. So yes, it is sporadic.

I never said what the policeman did was right, I'm just saying it wasn't unprovoked either. Both the policeman and the boy were in the wrong.

Oh, and as far as I know the police in America can't shoot unarmed 15-year olds either. ;)

Feather Duster
07-12-08, 18:36
Police aren't even allow to taze without a purpose here.

Draco
07-12-08, 18:38
Why would the police not be justified in shooting him if he somehow threatened their lives?

Tombreaper
07-12-08, 18:39
As far as I know the Greek police is more reserved than in other European countries, so something went seriously wrong there, otherwise the police would have never shot an unarmed civilian.

Very sad.

la-la-lara
07-12-08, 18:55
This isn't something that happens regularly. So yes, it is sporadic.

Pardon my English.
Actually, the police rarely shoot people when provoked. What I meant is that they are very often arbitrary, that's why they dissatisfy the Greek people.

This boy admittedly provoked the police. Provoked, I say, by throwing two plastic bottles and an ashtray at them. There was also a verbal fight. How's that worthy of shoving a bullet in the boy's stomach? Even if the boy had caused serious trouble to the police, opening fire was definitely not the proper thing to do. The boy expressed his disapproval of what the future of this country reserves for its youth. There is a general dissatisfaction on behalf of all Greek adolescents, caused by the wrong targets our disfuncional state sets.
And after all this crock of ****, this cop claims he was threatened, so that's why he pulled the trigger?

EDIT:
Demonstrators Occupy Greek Consulate in Berlin (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,595033,00.html)

My heart is yearning, but Athens is burning. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtTB-C5MA8U)
Athens is burning all night long.
My heart is dreaming, but Athens is screaming.
Athens is screaming all night long.

You can hear the gunfire in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwJZHcMolUA)...

kimonap
08-12-08, 14:34
Pardon my English.
Actually, the police rarely shoot people when provoked. What I meant is that they are very often arbitrary, that's why they dissatisfy the Greek people.

This boy admittedly provoked the police. Provoked, I say, by throwing two plastic bottles and an ashtray at them. There was also a verbal fight. How's that worthy of shoving a bullet in the boy's stomach? Even if the boy had caused serious trouble to the police, opening fire was definitely not the proper thing to do. The boy expressed his disapproval of what the future of this country reserves for its youth. There is a general dissatisfaction on behalf of all Greek adolescents, caused by the wrong targets our disfuncional state sets.
And after all this crock of ****, this cop claims he was threatened, so that's why he pulled the trigger?

EDIT:
Demonstrators Occupy Greek Consulate in Berlin (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,595033,00.html)

I absolutely agree with you! And as a "young person" i worry about my countrys future!

Punaxe
08-12-08, 14:48
When it's a situation of "him or me", the police officer has the right to make the "him" decision. I don't know the situation, it seems nobody really does, but it doesn't seem to be at a him-or-me level, at least not when isolating the boy and the officer... But wasn't there an entire mob of people? I guess sometimes, in the case of a "them or me" situation, there's only one warning that works...

Fdx Croft
08-12-08, 14:50
I feel afraid even that I dont live in Greece... :( Poor boy...

kimonap
08-12-08, 15:35
:confused:When it's a situation of "him or me", the police officer has the right to make the "him" decision. I don't know the situation, it seems nobody really does, but it doesn't seem to be at a him-or-me level, at least not when isolating the boy and the officer... But wasn't there an entire mob of people? I guess sometimes, in the case of a "them or me" situation, there's only one warning that works...

What can a kid thats coplaining about many thinks hurt you?

Punaxe
08-12-08, 15:36
:confused:

What can a kid thats coplaining about many thinks hurt you?

Well once again, I don't know the situation, but from what I hear there was a mob of people throwing stones. That's pretty dangerous.

Ikas90
08-12-08, 15:39
Greek policing is pretty bad, but I never thought it would go that far out of hand.

They patrol the streets with sub-machine guns for crying out loud.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 16:35
This boy admittedly provoked the police. Provoked, I say, by throwing two plastic bottles and an ashtray at them. There was also a verbal fight. How's that worthy of shoving a bullet in the boy's stomach? Even if the boy had caused serious trouble to the police, opening fire was definitely not the proper thing to do. The boy expressed his disapproval of what the future of this country reserves for its youth. There is a general dissatisfaction on behalf of all Greek adolescents, caused by the wrong targets our disfuncional state sets.
And after all this crock of ****, this cop claims he was threatened, so that's why he pulled the trigger?Did you not read my last post? I said both the boy and the police officer were in the wrong.

Ikas90
08-12-08, 16:41
Did you not read my last post? I said both the boy and the police officer were in the wrong.

Did you read her post? How's that worthy of shoving a bullet in the boy's stomach?

By killing, you're not going to solve anything. It's what keeps the violence cycle going.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 16:44
Did you read her post? How's that worthy of shoving a bullet in the boy's stomach?

By killing, you're not going to solve anything. It's what keeps the violence cycle going.Yep. But it's evident right there that you misread my post.

I said both the boy and the police officer were in the WRONG.
In even more simpler terms, the boy was wrong for provoking the policeman and the policeman was wrong for shooting him. How else could you interpret my post? :confused:

pemides
08-12-08, 16:46
They patrol the streets with sub-machine guns for crying out loud.

Well, from reading the article, I guess there is a reason why they do that ;)

Hybrid Soldier
08-12-08, 16:47
Yep. But it's evident right there that you misread my post.

I said both the boy and the police officer were in the WRONG.
In even more simpler terms, the boy was wrong for provoking the policeman and the policeman was wrong for shooting him. How else could you interpret my post? :confused:


Whats up with the confused smilie!?

Anyways i have to agree with Ben here.

Ikas90
08-12-08, 16:52
Yep. But it's evident right there that you misread my post.

I said both the boy and the police officer were in the WRONG.
In even more simpler terms, the boy was wrong for provoking the policeman and the policeman was wrong for shooting him. How else could you interpret my post? :confused:


My apologies. The question you raised earlier made it seem like the police officer was more in the right than the rioter. But we can't say who was more wrong, can we.

la-la-lara
08-12-08, 16:58
In even more simpler terms, the boy was wrong for provoking the policeman and the policeman was wrong for shooting him.[/SIZE]

I did read your post and I did not misinterpret it.
I'm just saying, why was the boy in the WRONG? He provoked the policeman, so what? Did he deserve to be killed because he called the policeman an "a**hole"? He was 15 years old, teenagers protest all the time and they are right. Their future is unstable in our state and it is normal to express their dissatisfaction.
Cops should be cold-blooded and they should use their weapons only in case of self-defense. They are trained for such situations. How was the verbal fight or the plastic bottle threatening for anything?

This all is very wild and unacceptable. Greece is burning, boiling in a cauldron of anger.

rowanlim
08-12-08, 16:58
I read about it in today's papers, very sad :(

I feel that the protests isn't necessary. It won't bring the boy back neither would it bring support for the cause.

I'm still undecided whether the policeman's action was justified.

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 17:22
I did read your post and I did not misinterpret it.
I'm just saying, why was the boy in the WRONG? He provoked the policeman, so what? Did he deserve to be killed because he called the policeman an "a**hole"? He was 15 years old, teenagers protest all the time and they are right. Their future is unstable in our state and it is normal to express their dissatisfaction.
Cops should be cold-blooded and they should use their weapons only in case of self-defense. They are trained for such situations. How was the verbal fight or the plastic bottle threatening for anything?

This all is very wild and unacceptable. Greece is burning, boiling in a cauldron of anger.The boy was in the wrong for provoking the policeman. But at the same time (and this is the fourth time I've said this), the policeman was also in the wrong for shooting him.

Whats up with the confused smilie!?Because I don't understand how anybody could not get what I meant :p

Poke Warrior
08-12-08, 17:36
I didnt know him so it doesnt effect me in any way...

kimonap
08-12-08, 17:39
I did read your post and I did not misinterpret it.
I'm just saying, why was the boy in the WRONG? He provoked the policeman, so what? Did he deserve to be killed because he called the policeman an "a**hole"? He was 15 years old, teenagers protest all the time and they are right. Their future is unstable in our state and it is normal to express their dissatisfaction.
Cops should be cold-blooded and they should use their weapons only in case of self-defense. They are trained for such situations. How was the verbal fight or the plastic bottle threatening for anything?

This all is very wild and unacceptable. Greece is burning, boiling in a cauldron of anger.

Yess and whats more...im afraid this will hapen again soon!!!!:cen: The tragical event is that yes many teens and young people are trying to "win" a better future but some terrorist now did find a chance to destroy all ATHENS:@ WHERE IS THE GREEK POLICE!???

I didnt know him so it doesnt effect me in any way...

:@ OHH REALLY AND WHAT IF IT WAS YOU?:@ You wouldnt care either!ha?

interstellardave
08-12-08, 18:25
Wow... this is some crazy stuff going on there but, from what I've read, it's nothing new. It seem obvious to me that abuse of police power occurs there far too often, people generally are not provoked to this degree for no good reason. This has been building for years apparently!

Power to the people!

Mad Tony
08-12-08, 19:00
Wow... this is some crazy stuff going on there but, from what I've read, it's nothing new. It seem obvious to me that abuse of police power occurs there far too often, people generally are not provoked to this degree for no good reason. This has been building for years apparently!

Power to the people!I don't think police officers abusing their power is a new thing, and I don't think it's getting more common either. I think it's just getting reported more.

MattTR
08-12-08, 19:10
Oh man, that's so horrible. :( Cop should lose his job.. Think they're all tough and stuff, they need to stop being such jerks.

Betal
08-12-08, 19:12
Well you can't really blame him. I'm sure it wasn't his fault and this will follow him forever.

I still respect the police for helping people in need. :D

kimonap
08-12-08, 20:05
Well you can't really blame him. I'm sure it wasn't his fault and this will follow him forever.

I still respect the police for helping people in need. :D

Thats for sure...strange avatar between!

TRfan23
08-12-08, 20:13
Yeh last night I heard this on the radio built in my MP3! I recorded some, but wish I could have recorded it all to post on here. I deleted the other part as it wasn't a lot.

Jack Croft
09-12-08, 15:31
After LaraCroft! posted some information about this unfortunate event i am very sad for the family of the boy and hope they get the justic they deserve.

TombRaider 95
09-12-08, 15:33
Thats terrible :(

Lara Croft!
09-12-08, 15:53
Oh man, that's so horrible. :( Cop should lose his job.. Think they're all tough and stuff, they need to stop being such jerks.

Lose his job??? He should be left in a square and let the people give justice...



For all of you that aren't Greeks, I feel I should explain sth. This incident was just the last drop in the glass... Over the past years and especially during the last months, the Greek news have revealed many things the government did, so it's highest members could buy villas and steal money from the Public.... Even the church was involved.

So when you are already mad at the government for making prices higher in Greece, while the salaries remain the same, and the people of the government only care about dipping their fat hands into the honey jar...then it is only fair and expected for the people not to let the death of a 16-year-old go unpunished...


I saw some of the previous posts... Mad Tony, the kid didn't provoke the cop... They were returning home after having a coffee in a cafeteria. There were some cops in the area, that had been attacked before from a group of hooligans... When Alexis and his friends went by, the policeman and his buddies were in a bad mood, so they started calling them names... This in unacceptable behavior for a man of the law. When Alexis and his friends had enough, they started yelling back at them and Alexis threw an empty plastic bottle of water towards them. Although the cop had seen that there were only a bunch of unarmed young kids that were under no circumstances a threat, he lifted his service gun, aim at Alexis and shot him.

Ada the Mental
09-12-08, 16:43
What happened is tragic and horrible, and things do have to change, not only in the police but this screwed up country in general, but yeah, burning down cultural monuments and destroying people's properties will surely achieve something, oh yeah.

Some of the protesters actually want to bring about change. People are angry and rightly so. But the fact that some vandals are taking advantage of the boy's murder so that they can wreck havoc, burn down the city and have some fun is just infuriating and disgraceful. Yeah, let's set the University on fire, and the Archaeologiacl Museum, too! And the National Library! How about burning down Acropolis,as well? :rolleyes: :hea:

Lara Croft!
09-12-08, 16:50
My mother went out and visited all the places they said the vandals had burnt... The National museum, the National library... all intact! Some replica statues outside have been damaged, but the news lied about hooligans burning down our national treasures.

I agree with you that at some points the vandalism goes too far and the properties of people are damaged, but if you add up all the destructions of the riots, it won't even reach 1/10 of all the money the government made illegally by working with the church, I'm talking of course about Vatopedio...

Yes, in a fight there will be some collateral damages... But what is it worst? For someone to have his shop burnt or for a mother to lose her child?

igonge
09-12-08, 17:39
That's just horrible :mad:

TR cheatfinder
09-12-08, 17:43
I thought Americans only carry guns, as they use it for the reason... that's awful!!

Mad Tony
09-12-08, 17:44
I thought Americans only carry guns, as they use it for the reason... that's awful!!Most police forces equip their officers with guns. Very few countries don't do that. The United Kingdom is unfortunately one of those countries. Our criminals are better armed than our police.

kimonap
09-12-08, 20:30
:cen:The attack of those crazy people didnt stop today!:(((
What kind of civilazatio are we?And all this happens just in time,BEFORE XMAS!!!

Tombreaper
09-12-08, 20:36
Most police forces equip their officers with guns. Very few countries don't do that. The United Kingdom is unfortunately one of those countries. Our criminals are better armed than our police.

Yes, and what do you want the police in Greece for example to do?

Shooting all the scum causing these riots?

Dam, it's not Zimbabwe or something.

Greece is still a member of the EC, so the police isn't suppose to kill their own civilians, no matter how bad they behave.

Love2Raid
09-12-08, 20:50
Wow, it seems the situation is getting quite out of hand over there in Athens. So sad for the kid and his family/friends, but it seems like his death was just the straw that broke the camel's back. There is much more going on.

My thoughts are with the family and friends the boy left behind and I hope the violence will stop soon. Although solving the problem underneath may take a while....

:(

Mad Tony
09-12-08, 20:58
Yes, and what do you want the police in Greece for example to do?

Shooting all the scum causing these riots?

Dam, it's not Zimbabwe or something.

Greece is still a member of the EC, so the police isn't suppose to kill their own civilians, no matter how bad they behave.NO. I've already said about a dozen times that I don't think the police should just shoot these people. Using non-lethal methods (e.g. tear gas) is always better.

Thorir
09-12-08, 21:47
Poor boy. :(
Hope the demonstrations will have some effect.
It's all over the news here.

Evan C.
10-12-08, 00:00
:(
No words

Paddy
10-12-08, 08:29
Most police forces equip their officers with guns. Very few countries don't do that. The United Kingdom is unfortunately one of those countries. Our criminals are better armed than our police.

Theyd be nuts not to arm their cops with guns.
Some loonies out there are the sort to shoot to kill.

Catapharact
10-12-08, 08:38
Do remember though that the Patrol officers are the ones in Britain that don't carry firearms. That doesn't means the entire British police Bearu has a "no guns" operation policy (and yes that's the dummest idea in existance.)

Heck, one has to look at the CO19 unit to belay that thought process.

Paddy
10-12-08, 08:40
Any laws created regarding no guns has the opposite effect.
It creates more criminals and more black market trades.

Catapharact
10-12-08, 08:43
That's a "no duh!" senerio and its unfortunate that people don't seem to pick up on that. Gun Control in general is such a waste of time and effort. Why? Because registeries are rarely ever used by criminals. All guns they possess usually have their serial number filed right off and they aquire them through illegal arms dealers.

So in the end, legitimate gun owners end up paying the price where as criminals are off an about with illegally smuggled guns. You wanna stop illegal firearms aquisition and use? Target the arms dealers.

Paddy
10-12-08, 08:46
That's a "no duh!" senerio and its unfortunate that people don't seem to pick up on that. Gun Control in general is such a waste of time and effort. Why? Because registeries are rarely ever used by criminals. All guns they possess usually have their serial number filed right off and they aquire them through illegal arms dealers.

So in the end, legitimate gun owners end up paying the price where as criminals are off an about with illegally smuggled guns. You wanna stop illegal firearms aquisition and use? Target the arms dealers.

Exactly.
Couldnt agree more. If they get the dealers, the smuggling and stuff should be reduced at least, same with drugs

Tomb of Legends
10-12-08, 09:49
Why would the police not be justified in shooting him if he somehow threatened their lives?

With a stone?

Oooohhk...

TR love
10-12-08, 10:10
it disgusts me!

but my mum said he was about to throw a petrol bomb, so either kill or be killed. but who listens to thier mums?

Lara Croft!
10-12-08, 11:06
The protests continue today in Athens and many other parts of Greece. Yesterday night I went downtown myself and participated in a protest of silence, where we held banners with a gun in front of the police, to show our disgust and anger.

Before I saw things for myself, from what I had seen in the news, I thought that my city would be like it was in war. But all major streets were open, only a few stores were destroyed (most of which are branches of huge companies, that will have good insurance). The media lie a lot about the amount of destruction. Probably because the media are controlled by the government (which happens in all countries) and our Prime Minister, wants us to turn against the protesters. And some conservatives do that indeed. I know that in some cases the anarchists or looters have gone too far, but all the peaceful protests all these years resulted in nothing. It's time for our government to see that we will not be played for fools any longer!

la-la-lara
10-12-08, 11:18
I know that in some cases the anarchists or looters have gone too far, but all the peaceful protests all these years resulted in nothing. It's time for our government to see that we will not be played for fools any longer!

Exactly. We 've been tolerant enough. Since the 80s, both governments have been equally disrespectful to their people.

Punaxe
10-12-08, 11:41
With a stone?

Oooohhk...
Another source said the child was in fact about to throw a molotov cocktail at one of the police vans. I think we just really don't know the situation, so we can't judge it.

About the firearms: I don't see why it would be a good idea to make it legal for everyone to carry guns. Quoting professor Martin Killias on the subject: "The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

JamesFKirk
10-12-08, 11:47
I just read in the local news that based on what the experts say, there is a proof that the boy was not hit by a direct shot but a deflected bullet.
Which makes this an unfortunate accident with tragic consequences, but not a cold blooded murder.
I wonder how many people will listen to this. I don't expect the number to be high...

No offense, but I wonder how many people would bash out had the policeman NOT shot the boy and got burned to death by the petrol bomb (a hypothetical scenario - I am not trying to say anything by this example), which would likely happen had the bullet not been deflected.
I am not trying to apologize the policeman, but he got into a no-win scenario. From what I know I believe that he even didn't shoot at the boy, but in some other direction.

MrBear
10-12-08, 12:02
Is this a new modern-society trend? A couple of years ago it was the suburbs of Paris, now it's major cities in Greece?

It's not like sociologists need something to keep themselves occupied these days..

la-la-lara
10-12-08, 12:08
Is this a new modern-society trend?

Would you consider governmental arbitrariness a trend? In that case, yes.

MrBear
10-12-08, 12:16
Would you consider governmental arbitrariness a trend? In that case, yes.

What do you mean by governmental arbitrariness? I know what governmental means, and I know what arbitrary is.. But together, and as part of this subject I'm a little confused :p or does it make sense once I've read the whole thread?

All I'm wondering is what is behind these youth uprisings and whether or not it'll be more common in the future..

Nikki Sou
10-12-08, 12:23
I agree with you that at some points the vandalism goes too far and the properties of people are damaged, but if you add up all the destructions of the riots, it won't even reach 1/10 of all the money the government made illegally by working with the church, I'm talking of course about Vatopedio...


Thank you! That is exactly what I am saying as well.
It was TRAGIC that the cop shot the kid. I am angry just like any other Greek.
For those who don't live in Greece, I have noticed that your media has A LOT of wrong information. The kid did not provoke anyone. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This situation is too complicated. I can't really express myself in English at this time.
So, the whole thing was just the last thing we Greeks could handle. We live in a country that has no education. We work our asses off to get into a useless university. We work much much harder than any other country in Europe not to mention America. I am not kidding and not overreacting. It is very difficult to finish school here and get into a uni.
Once we do, it is worse. Nothing works. And we finally get our degree there's nothing for us there. Except if our parents have connections or a final job ready for us.
It is very important for you to understand what we are going through in Greece. THIS situations is happening notbecause of the kid but because of everything else that is wrong about this country.

The riot has destroyes so much these past few days. Thousands of people don't have a job now. But these that destroy are NOT the ones that PROTEST. (in greek----einai oi gnwstoi agnwstoi alla pws na to eksigisw twra afto? oti oi koukouloforoi ine anthrwpoi twn MAT?)
I myself protest against this goverment of ours. I have been to the streets and protested. But I was not throwing any rocks or molotov. There is no need for that.

But then again there is. The police hits little children/ 14year olds 15, 16. I am 19. I know kids that are in jail right now. I know kids that are in the hospital because the f*** cops in Greece are out of control. Because everything is out of control. Because the only thing that the goverment does right now, in this out of control situation, is FIGHTING WITH EACHOTHER. They only care for the votes and who get the "throne" in May.

This is why I am protesting. I am 19. I have worked hard to get into a stupid university. I know that when I am finished with that I won't have a future here.
I am protesting because the cops fight with kids younger than me! with girls! they punch them, they hurt their heads with glops, they kick them. Just us!! the kids!! But when it comes to the *******s that destroy our city they don't do A THING. WHICH ARE NOT THE ANARCHISTS but people with masks that are put there just to make a mess. The anarchists will destroy an ATM or a rubbish can or throw some rocks to the cops. The ones that set everything on fire are "others". I really can't explain this to you. The Greeks know what I am talking about.

This country is in the worst postition ever. I say yes to the riot. Let's do something. The police went once more too far. Shooting a kid like that. But that was not a one time thing. Riots are going on every week here in greece. You don't here anything about that do you? well that is a fact. And in every small riot some ******* cops are beating kids like me, and younger, to death.

I am against the setting fire on Greece. This is wrong. Our country will go nowhere without an ecomony. I really don't know what will happen now. The economy was totally destroyed anyway. Now it will be worse.

Ada the Mental
10-12-08, 12:28
Before I saw things for myself, from what I had seen in the news, I thought that my city would be like it was in war. But all major streets were open, only a few stores were destroyed (most of which are branches of huge companies, that will have good insurance). The media lie a lot about the amount of destruction.[/B]

Really? I don't know, I haven't been anywhere near the center since Friday, so I cn't tell...My brother, who thought that yesterday would be a good time to go to a football match and got stuck in Omonoia (I think he just wanted to have a good look) also said there wasn't much going on.

Just to clarify, I'm certainly not against the protesting, just the vandals who make those who actually have an ideology look bad.


Anyway,I was just listening to the news....Apparently, the ballistics investigation hasn't been completed yet because they haven't had the chance to search the actual crime scene. They say that the bullet was indeed deflected but the direction of the shot seems to have been towards the boy, anyway. They're assuming that the bullet hit a lamp post or something... The charge is still murder.

Shrantellatessa
10-12-08, 12:30
He could've fired some shots in the air!

la-la-lara
10-12-08, 12:32
What do you mean by governmental arbitrariness? I know what governmental means, and I know what arbitrary is.. But together, and as part of this subject I'm a little confused :p or does it make sense once I've read the whole thread?

All I'm wondering is what is behind these youth uprisings and whether or not it'll be more common in the future..

Maybe my English is a little crappy. :p

Contrary to the statements of politicians and journalists who are accomplices to the murder, this was not an “isolated incident”, but an explosion of the state repression which systematically and in an organised manner targets those who resist, those who revolt, the anarchists and antiauthoritarians. It is the peak of state terrorism which is expressed with the upgrading of the role of repressive mechanisms, their continuous armament, the increasing levels of violence they use, with the doctrine of “zero tolerance”, with the slandering media propaganda that criminalises those who are fighting against authority. It is these conditions that prepare the ground for the intensification of repression, attempting to extract social consent beforehand, and arming the weapons of state murderers in uniform!

Nikki Sou
10-12-08, 12:38
Just to clarify, I'm certainly not against the protesting, just the vandals who make those who actually have an ideology look bad.

exactly.

Mad Tony
10-12-08, 12:56
That's a "no duh!" senerio and its unfortunate that people don't seem to pick up on that. Gun Control in general is such a waste of time and effort. Why? Because registeries are rarely ever used by criminals. All guns they possess usually have their serial number filed right off and they aquire them through illegal arms dealers.

So in the end, legitimate gun owners end up paying the price where as criminals are off an about with illegally smuggled guns. You wanna stop illegal firearms aquisition and use? Target the arms dealers.For once I agree with you :tmb:

Lara's Backpack
10-12-08, 13:35
What is going on with the governments today?

I think the whole situation is tragic, I know Greece has been having internal problems lately but I guess this was a spark in a smouldering heap.

My condolences to anyone adversely affected.

Lara Croft!
10-12-08, 14:53
I just read in the local news that based on what the experts say, there is a proof that the boy was not hit by a direct shot but a deflected bullet.
Which makes this an unfortunate accident with tragic consequences, but not a cold blooded murder.


This hasn't been proved yet, as the ballistic examination hasn't been done yet. Even if it happened like that, the kid was just a teenager and was unarmed... The cop said some terrible things to him and his friends and he answered back. Should the cop fire in the air??? Was he that afraid of an unarmed kid? As I've said, nothing is yet proved, but all eye-witnesses stated that the cop AIMED and then SHOT the kid directly!

Tombreaper
10-12-08, 16:22
What is going on with the governments today?




They are all corrupt, filling their own pockets with your money.

Instead of taking care for their own civilians, they care more for pumping billions of Euros/Pounds into corrupt banks, fighting totally senseless wars in countries like Afghanistan, etc.etc. The list is really long.
:mad:

They are rattlebrained egoists.

Mad Tony
10-12-08, 16:45
They are all corrupt, filling their own pockets with your money.

Instead of taking care for their own civilians, they care more for pumping billions of Euros/Pounds into corrupt banks, fighting totally senseless wars in countries like Afghanistan, etc.etc. The list is really long.
:mad:

They are rattlebrained egoists.Now if you'd said Iraq I wouldn't have had much of a problem with your post. Although I support the Iraq war, I can still see why some people may not agree with it. Afghanistan is a different matter though. That's getting those responsible for 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. Even Michael Moore doesn't oppose it. In fact, I believe he criticized the US government in his film Fahrenheit 9/11 for not going into Afghanistan fast enough.

Nikki Sou
10-12-08, 17:16
Mad Tony, I know this does not belong to this subject but why are you supporting the Iraq war? I've never heard anyone actually say that. If you'd be so kind please message me :) I'd really appreciate it. I am just curious.

Lara's Backpack
11-12-08, 01:20
Mad Tony, I know this does not belong to this subject but why are you supporting the Iraq war? I've never heard anyone actually say that. If you'd be so kind please message me :) I'd really appreciate it. I am just curious.

How could a fiercely patriotic ex-American with an avatar like that not support wars involving America.

Dia2blo
11-12-08, 01:45
I wonder what is going through the policeman's head right now...

Mad Tony
11-12-08, 06:05
Mad Tony, I know this does not belong to this subject but why are you supporting the Iraq war? I've never heard anyone actually say that. If you'd be so kind please message me :) I'd really appreciate it. I am just curious.Check your PMs :)

How could a fiercely patriotic ex-American with an avatar like that not support wars involving America.What the hell is "ex-American" supposed to mean? :confused:

Oh, and the avatar is from Band of Brothers (TV series). Band of Brothers is about WWII, not any present day war.

Lara's Backpack
11-12-08, 12:52
Ex-American as in you used to live there and you're still pining to move back.
"If you don't stand behind our troops, please feel free to stand in front of them"

:jmp:

Now tell me you arent alittle over the top with the gun dramatics. A policeman shooting a 15 year old outside of America is a very big deal.

Mr.Burns
11-12-08, 13:24
Contrary to popular belief that all Americans are gun toting idiots, this is just another generalization. Yes there are some morons out there with guns (I'm sorry to say I know a few) but most of us that do own a firearm are smart enough to use them either for home defense, or hunting. We're also very aware of the dangers involved with such weapons. So, believe it or not, when we see a police officer fatally shoot a teenager, especially when it's a situation like this, we wouldn't be happy about it either.

Mad Tony
11-12-08, 16:07
Ex-American as in you used to live there and you're still pining to move back.
"If you don't stand behind our troops, please feel free to stand in front of them"

:jmp:

Now tell me you arent alittle over the top with the gun dramatics. A policeman shooting a 15 year old outside of America is a very big deal.My signature applies to British troops as well. Do you have a problem with me supporting my nation's military?

And as far as I know a policeman shooting a 15 year old is a big deal anywhere you go. I really don't see how it wouldn't be a big deal in America.

Contrary to popular belief that all Americans are gun toting idiots, this is just another generalization. Yes there are some morons out there with guns (I'm sorry to say I know a few) but most of us that do own a firearm are smart enough to use them either for home defense, or hunting. We're also very aware of the dangers involved with such weapons. So, believe it or not, when we see a police officer fatally shoot a teenager, especially when it's a situation like this, we wouldn't be happy about it either.Unfortunately this isn't the first time you've had to say something along those lines. Well said none the less. :tmb:

godmodder
11-12-08, 16:48
Nothing wrong with a little shooting, as long as the right people get shot :D

MrBear
11-12-08, 17:35
Nothing wrong with a little shooting, as long as the right people get shot :D

... :eek:

If you ask me, no one should ever have to be shot.. :)

Lara Croft!
12-12-08, 16:02
Things are a little more peaceful today.

I went to a protest downtown, outside the Parliament (there were thousands of school and university students). But once we got there, the cops threw tear gas for no reason and most of the protesters left. I stayed with my friends to shout at the cops. :mad::mad::mad:

The Greek government refuses to have elections before the scheduled ones, because as they say "they still have a lot to do..." It's so :cen:hypocritical!!! The only thing left for them to do is to make more dirty money from the reconstruction of the destroyed shops and public buildings...

No one has resigned, just to show remorse... It's terrible. I hope the people won't give up now and I want the protests to continue until sth substantial is achieved.


I heard a child in Australia was also shot and killed by a cop... Terrible news....

Hybrid Soldier
12-12-08, 16:22
The boy was in the wrong for provoking the policeman. But at the same time (and this is the fourth time I've said this), the policeman was also in the wrong for shooting him.

Because I don't understand how anybody could not get what I meant :p

No, no! I meant.. its messed up. Haha, its smaller than the rest. :p

MadCroy101
12-12-08, 16:27
If the kids didn't have weapons there shouldn't have been shots fired.

Exactly, I feel really bad for that boy. R.I.P.......:(

Lara Croft!
12-12-08, 17:02
A collage I made... You can see the dead boy in two pics. On the top left the Greek Prime Minister, on the top right the defender of the cop (a known mentally unstable lawyer) beneath him the cop who committed the murder. In the middle yet one member of the government...

http://i33.************/rbjggl.jpg
The title says Hellas (a.k.a Greece) : December 2008

godmodder
12-12-08, 17:36
I went to a protest downtown, outside the Parliament (there were thousands of school and university students). But once we got there, the cops threw tear gas for no reason and most of the protesters left. I stayed with my friends to shout at the cops

Those people are just doing there job, you know. It's not their fault that the governement messes up.

I think you need to see things in a broader perspective though and don't overreact like you seem to do now. Thousands of people die everyday on this earth just like that boy and a lot of them died because this world isn't a righteous place. Does this mean we need to go out and go and scream like a fool everyday?

Lara's Backpack
13-12-08, 11:06
I heard a child in Australia was also shot and killed by a cop... Terrible news....

Yeah, it was under very different circumstances though. He and a few of his mates pulled knives on the police and threatened to kill them after they had been approached with suspicions of belonging to a white supremacy gang... which they did.

la-la-lara
13-12-08, 11:50
On the top right the defender of the cop (a known mentally unstable lawyer)

Momentarily I thought that there's nothing worse the boy's mother will have to go through. But then I pictured her at court. Her little prince's insensitive, brutal murderer will be standing right in front of her and Kougias, that silly old unctuous cuckold, that "money helot", that "cog of the system", will be his defender.

That's one terrible ordeal.

Lara's Backpack
13-12-08, 11:57
Momentarily I thought that there's nothing worse the boy's mother will have to go through. But then I pictured her at court. Her little prince's insensitive, brutal murderer will be standing right in front of her and Kougias, that silly old unctuous cuckold, that "money helot", that "cog of the system", will be his defender.

That's one terrible ordeal.

Im sure she'll get some sort of protective screening from the rest of the court... it's a shame she'll still have to look at the lawyer.

la-la-lara
13-12-08, 12:06
Im sure she'll get some sort of protective screening from the rest of the court... it's a shame she'll still have to look at the lawyer.

Sure. After all, the lawyer's defence mechanism is clemently vulgar. Gross injustice.

Lara Croft!
13-12-08, 17:02
Those people are just doing there job, you know. It's not their fault that the governement messes up.

I think you need to see things in a broader perspective though and don't overreact like you seem to do now. Thousands of people die everyday on this earth just like that boy and a lot of them died because this world isn't a righteous place. Does this mean we need to go out and go and scream like a fool everyday?

What exactly is their job? To gas the students who want to protest outside the Parliament? We did nothing to provoke them and the police came at us with tear gas and threats. And we shouldn't say anything to them? Why on earth shouldn't we? They are here to serve and protect...not kill and threat!

I know people die every day. And when someone is lost by an accident or natural causes life goes on. But when someone underage is killed because the cops have overestimated their power, then life just doesn't go on.

We should protest everyday until the government resigns and the next one will try a bit harder knowing that the Greeks will be played for fools no more. If we stop the protests, nothing will change, the kid will have died in vain and the government will fill our streets with a big percentage of unstable cops. So, we don't just need to go out and scream everyday... It has became mandatory...

And it's been quite a few days after the event. It's no longer my overreaction. It's plain anger and determination to change things

Endow
13-12-08, 17:10
Why exactly do some people want the Greek government to resign?

IceColdLaraCroft
13-12-08, 17:13
Nepotism is part of the reason. Giving jobs to family members, particularly when Greece, like many other countries, is going through record unemployment.

it's become about much more than just the kid being shot.

Lara Croft!
14-12-08, 17:36
You covered me.... The Greek government has shown signs of corruption that is just too much. All governments fool people a bit and its members make dirty money, but the situation now is unbearable...For example the Minister of Education went to a night entertainment club (mpouzoukia) the day after the kid was shot and half of Athens was on fire...

Mad Tony
14-12-08, 17:37
You covered me.... The Greek government has shown signs of corruption that is just too much. All governments fool people a bit and its members make dirty money, but the situation now is unbearable...For example the Minister of Education went to a night entertainment club (mpouzoukia) the day after the kid was shot and half of Athens was on fire...Was the minister of education actually involved with the shooting of the kid or does his job have anything to do with the riots? If not, then I don't see anything wrong with him going to a nightclub.

Lara Croft!
14-12-08, 17:51
Schools in all Greece were closed as a sign of lament and grief. The Minister of Education was supposed to set an example. Plus, the club he went to was downtown really close to where the riots were taking place at that very moment. When a whole country is in grief about an unfair loss and the members of the government declared on TV they all sympathize with the family and that they were devastated and a big part of Athens is on fire, you don't go to a nightclub. Postpone it for a week, it's not like the singer would leave the town... but no, entertainment couldn't wait.

la-la-lara
15-12-08, 15:12
Momentarily I thought that there's nothing worse the boy's mother will have to go through. But then I pictured her at court. Her little prince's insensitive, brutal murderer will be standing right in front of her and Kougias, that silly old unctuous cuckold, that money helot, that "cog of the system", will be his defender.

In addition, the two policemen were remanded in custody pending trial. Do you believe that Kougias actually asked for its revocation? I read it in the newspaper today. He claims there's no reason for them to be taken into custody. Plus, their defence line is based on the fact that the cops were threatened! They keep on saying that, how can't they see how ridiculous and unsubstantiated this is? They are really provocative.

Lara Croft!
19-12-08, 14:59
The Greek people, especially school and college students still remain active and fight for a change!

Pics I took from yesterday's protest... The police again threw tear gas at us when we reached the Parliament, so we left and marched towards another direction...

I loved the V for Vendetta reference... although there is no oppression in Greece like in the movie there are other forms of slavery... Like poverty or unemployment...
The second picture says "Your democracy stinks of tear gas"
Click on the images for a larger version....
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09480.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09480.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09483.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09483.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09484.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09484.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09485.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09485.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09486.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09486.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09486-1.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09486-1.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09492.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09492.jpg)
http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/th_DSC09481.jpg (http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg416/Bauerpl/ATHENS-DECEMBER%202008/?action=view&current=DSC09481.jpg)

Mad Tony
19-12-08, 15:10
I loved the V for Vendetta reference... although there is no oppression in Greece like in the movie there are other forms of slavery... Like poverty or unemployment...Question: how is poverty and unemployment a form of slavery? :confused:

Lara Croft!
19-12-08, 15:19
Because if you are educated and you want a job, but the government doesn't do sth drastic to improve the unemployment problem, then people are enslaved in a system that doesn't offer them what they deserve. They want a good life, to built a future and the CAN'T do it... They are not free, metaphorically and practically speaking.

Unemployed people said on Greek TV that they have to beg or ask for loans they can't pay back, although they WANT to work and some of them even have university diplomas... One of them said "I feel I'm useless... Worse that a slave..."

So that's where the word came to my mind. I think that it was pretty obvious... I explained it anyway.

Btw... careful with that avatar... there are flying shoes.... LOL!!!!

Mad Tony
19-12-08, 15:31
But unemployment is sometimes unavoidable. It's just part of the economic cycle.

Lara Croft!
19-12-08, 17:47
I'm not talking about unemployment as a part of the economic circle. I'm talking about a government that places its own people into the working positions... And money for public works is "disappearing" instead of actually building.
It may be hard to understand, since you are not in Greece, but this government is corrupted to its roots and not only this one but also the one before.
So the people can't take it any longer. And when no substantial efforts are being made to ameliorate the unemployment or the continuously rising prices, while the politicians and its followers keep buying villas... well, then, try to imagine our desperation....

Mad Tony
19-12-08, 17:51
That's fair enough, but rioting and just generally causing civil disorder isn't gonna help. I can understand why the police might be a bit jumpy at the moment.