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Scia
13-12-08, 19:02
The camera has been the most critically panned feature of the Tomb Raider series since we first met Lara in 1996. Sadly, despite being loathed by critics and players alike, the camera hasn’t improved since then. In fact, some players even feel the camera has gotten worse in the last four games.

Every review I’ve read for Tomb Raider: Underworld has bashed the camera, and I can’t blame them for doing so – I had a hell of a time fighting for control over it too! Every player has their own idea of how they want to view a scene (and some people just like to look around), so when the camera goes all poltergeist and moves by itself, it’s extremely aggravating. We shouldn’t have to fight the game. Especially not when the ‘glitch’ we’re fighting is an intentional ‘feature’ implemented by the developers.

When the camera is ripped out of our hands to show us something, it kills any kind of suspense or atmosphere the level might have had. Using Thailand as an example, the encounters with the Spiders, Bats, Sharks, and Nagas were far more entertaining than the encounters with the Tigers, because those smaller animals didn’t get spoiled with an introductory camera spasm. Crystal allowed us to find them. The tigers were thisclose to be really awesome, but the intro movies killed it. Not to mention, BOTH of those first Tiger encounters have intro movies – seriously, once wasn’t enough?

The camera problems go beyond simple irritation though, and it actually gets in the way of gameplay. I’m sure we’ve all lined up our jumps, only to have the camera whip around toward the next ledge – causing Lara to change direction at the start of her jump and fall to her death. This attempt at help is more frustrating than getting lost, because there is no way for us to correct it. Difficult bosses can be killed with proper strategy, long jumps can be overcome with proper positioning, difficult puzzles can be solved with a little concentration, but this diabolical camera cannot be fought because its errors aren’t our fault!

I, along with the rest of you, have been begging the developers to please, please stop moving our camera, but they still are. We need to band together and force the issue with them, because it’s really quite simple: If Crystal Dynamics did less work, we would get a game that's easier to play. Not to mention, they could use the time and energy they’ve wasted by programming the camera’s automated movements to eradicate other bugs and glitches. It works out quite nicely! ;)

So, to Crystal Dynamics: STOP MOVING OUR CAMERA. It's that simple, and it will be a HUGE improvement. The PLAYER is supposed to PLAY the game, not the developers. Unless it’s a real cutscene, just make the camera default behind Lara, and let the PLAYER be the only thing to ever PLAY with the camera’s orientation. You should never touch the camera. Ever. One more time for good measure: Never move the camera. Ever. Ever. Ever. Just make it a general rule that the player's camera can only be moved or animated by the developers if there is dialogue being spoken, otherwise it belongs to the player and is strictly protected from developer interference. ;)

Crystal Dynamics, this doesn't mean you need to recode the camera so it can anticipate the things we need it to do - it means you need to leave it alone completely. Only one person can have control of the camera, and that has to be the player - at all times. I cannot stress this enough - never, ever, ever take control of the camera in a future TR game. Ever. Please.

Don't pivot it up to show how cool an area is, don't spin it around to show a tiger running at Lara, don't jerk it to the side to show a ledge that we don't want to look at. Just leave it alone and let the player handle it. I promise we can do it, and I would bet money that people stop complaining about the controls once you give them full and exclusive control of the camera.

Give us a zoom control, and we will be able to position the camera in any way that we need it. The controls should be something similar to this:

(Xbox 360)
Right Joystick (direction) = Camera rotation
Right Joystick Click + Right Joystick Up = Zoom In
Right Joystick Click + Right Joystick Down = Zoom Out
Right Joystick Click + Right Joystick Left = Camera FOV Shifts Left (Putting Lara on the far right of the screen)
Right Joystick Click + Right Joystick Right = Camera FOV Shifts Right (Putting Lara on the far left of the screen)

Left Joystick Click = Toggle Manual Aim

(PC, with WASD)
Mouse Movement = Camera Rotation
Mouse Wheel Forward = Zoom In
Mouse Wheel Backward = Zoom Out
Q = Camera FOV shifts Left (Putting Lara on the far Right of the screen)
E = Camera FOV shifts Right (Putting Lara on the far Left of the screen)

Right Click = Manual Aim

and that's it! Leave it alone, and let us get the angles that WE, the players, need.
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Who wants to join the cause? :jmp:

Members:
Scia
TombRaiderLover

TombRaiderLover
13-12-08, 19:06
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I still think the next game should have a camera like that one. Almost always fixed behind the character. God bless Free Running.

I'll join the cause. :tmb: Haven't played TRU yet, so I don't know how bad the camera might be, but the camera in TRA was very poor at times.

Doctorb
14-12-08, 09:40
In Lord of the Rings online your avatar has a fixed camera for movement and one button to move forward, same as the classics (1 to 5). You also have a free camera (using mouse) to completely look around your character 360 degrees zoom in and out, perfect for inspecting your suroundings.

This system has the best of both worlds, nobody complains of 'old fashioned' controls and camera issues, it just works. It would be perfect for TR if combined with a proper TR engine.

I found a video which shows the camera lock in movement and the free camera:

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RAID
14-12-08, 09:55
AM9AG_yS28k&fmt=18

I still think the next game should have a camera like that one. Almost always fixed behind the character. God bless Free Running.

I'll join the cause. :tmb: Haven't played TRU yet, so I don't know how bad the camera might be, but the camera in TRA was very poor at times.
:tmb:

Core were always the best with camera angles.

If you think TRA had bad Camera, TRU is gonna make you swear :p

SLAYER
14-12-08, 12:30
:tmb:

Core were always the best with camera angles.

If you think TRA had bad Camera, TRU is gonna make you swear :p

agree !

KIKO
14-12-08, 13:34
Let the camera be fixed when Lara moves so we can jump around without having to turn it and let us move the camera when Lara is stopped. it's that simple and won't cause troubles. And please put an end to those sudden camera changes, they're annoying. Gives us zoom in or zoom out. :)

MMAN
14-12-08, 14:29
The camera has been the most critically panned feature of the Tomb Raider series since we first met Lara in 1996. Sadly, despite being loathed by critics and players alike, the camera hasn’t improved since then.

No it wasn't; the original camera only got a sentence or so in most reviews to mention the occasional flaw (what every third person game gets however good its camera is); it's nothing like now where reviews (deservedly) devote a paragraph or two to the myriad of flaws the new camera exhibits.

And I'd prefer to have the opposite (like the original camera); a camera that's designed to be automatic 99% of the time and work well enough to not need constant babysitting by the player, something like in Super Mario Galaxy (if they stick with the current control scheme).

ccroft2003
15-12-08, 07:30
And I'd prefer to have the opposite (like the original camera); a camera that's designed to be automatic 99% of the time and work well enough to not need constant babysitting by the player.

I agree, you should have to move the camera around at all unless you want to look at your surroundings or marvel at the character model. The camera should look after itself. Bring back the old camera system locked behind Lara at all times. I think this would improve the gunplay as well? :D

Ward Dragon
15-12-08, 07:45
And I'd prefer to have the opposite (like the original camera); a camera that's designed to be automatic 99% of the time and work well enough to not need constant babysitting by the player, something like in Super Mario Galaxy (if they stick with the current control scheme).

Oh crud, I certainly hope not! I just finished playing Super Mario Galaxy and that camera was bad enough to make me really appreciate the Legend/TRA/TRU cameras. It even made Defiance's camera look decent :vlol: I was actually getting motion sickness in Super Mario Galaxy because the camera was all over the place. Many times it was stuck completely upside down (not even in the crazy gravity places, but running across a "planet" surface) and when I tried to recenter it, it went to an even worse angle and wouldn't let me adjust it :hea:

I just want classic style camera and controls and I'll be happy. That way the camera sticks to Lara's back and I can actually turn her to line up jumps and see where I'm going.