View Full Version : Natla's Been a Long Time Coming...
laralover_07
21-12-08, 11:14
So I bought Tomb Raider Legend yesterday, again.
I got it on 360 so i could play in shiny sparkly HD, it looks awesome. So I was playing Croft Manor and went to look at the screens in the tech room. In the PS2 version, you can't read what the screens say. A 360 screen below...
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa303/laralover_07/107_1043.jpg
So the screen on the far left has a world map and the middle one has a scrolling infinite paragraph on Queen Tiwanaku, I'm only in Peru, that screen changes doesn't it?
But it was the screen on the right that interests me...
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa303/laralover_07/107_1041.jpg
It's an auto-translation, possibly by zip, stored in a folder called "Mayan", isn't Tomb Raider Underworld set around the Mayan Calender??
I'll type what the screen says, incase you can't read it:
C:/zipcode05/deciphertexts/mayan/bookofmother.txt
run translation codex44.lima9.exe
---and she sprang forth from the head of her
father
in a great fountain of blood, for she was the
mother of battle and could not be held by any
prison
---curse, untranslatable
--this daughter of the great ones, source of all
Atlantaecians, will be cast down during the
second
"cycle"---see 456atlentecnine.txt
to walk with
the mortals, to live with the mortals, and sire
the half breed, Atrytone(approx trans) [see Greek
link 7834r6] -
--end text translation
--14 errors
--12 words hyperlink guess
I know Atrytone is another name for Athene (Athena), but the nods to Natla are overwhelming...
Did CD have Natla in their sights right from the beginning?
Thougts?
This may have been posted before, but It's something I just found. I've posted it in Underworld since it has more relevence here...
Wow thats a very amazing find!:tmb:
Legend of Lara
21-12-08, 11:20
This was first posted... sometime last year, I think. :p
laralover_07
21-12-08, 11:29
Yeah I thought so..
Just noticed since the writing is undeterminable on PS2...
Meh, oh well.. :D
Mods, if you would care to close.. or move.
Old or not, that's one nice screenshot, thanks.
The only version you can read the writing on is the Xbox 360 one, and yes it was mentioned a fair while ago, and a few times since. There is no certainty it refers to Natla, although the suddenly short hair and more human appearance in Underworld after Amanda "saved" Natla made it seem more a possibility. Athena also could be Lara's mother, and Medusa could be another aspect of the same person. Croft Manor is a shrine to Medusa and Athena, Lara's seeming contempt for Tihocan, and admiration for Natla makes for an interesting mystery Crystal Dynamics have not really explained. Lara still seemed to hesitated to kill Natla at the end of Underworld, why?
This is one of the earlier threads.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=92274 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=92274&highlight=XBox+screens)
Lara still seemed to hesitated to kill Natla at the end of Underworld, why?
Maybe she wanted some more answers out of her?
Actually I can read it in both last and next gen version on my PC :wve:
EDIT: just checked ironically I canīt see anything now.. the screens appear black... gotta try it on my old pc.
cardmonster
21-12-08, 12:58
First I've heard of this, thanks - and great screenshot. :)
C:/zipcode05/deciphertexts/mayan/bookofmother.txt??
Oh my god, Zip uses MS-DOS from 1993!
Irrespective of it being previously mentioned, it's still a worthy find and well presented.
Thanks for taking the time to share this. :)
C:/zipcode05/deciphertexts/mayan/bookofmother.txt??
Oh my god, Zip uses MS-DOS from 1993!
Seems to be some hybrid. Forward slash delimiters are the domain of Unix based systems, although Unix doesn't use drive letters, just mount points. Plus DOS never natively supported file/directory names longer than eight characters.
Anyway, I'm off topic...
GenyaArikado
21-12-08, 14:47
The only version you can read the writing on is the Xbox 360 one, and yes it was mentioned a fair while ago, and a few times since. There is no certainty it refers to Natla, although the suddenly short hair and more human appearance in Underworld after Amanda "saved" Natla made it seem more a possibility. Athena also could be Lara's mother, and Medusa could be another aspect of the same person. Croft Manor is a shrine to Medusa and Athena, Lara's seeming contempt for Tihocan, and admiration for Natla makes for an interesting mystery Crystal Dynamics have not really explained. Lara still seemed to hesitated to kill Natla at the end of Underworld, why?
This is one of the earlier threads.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=92274 (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=92274&highlight=XBox+screens)
Because she is Inmortal, even If she was evil, she is a unique being, a living relic from the past, destroying her, that would mean that the humman possibly will never know about the world before the time records, when she died, the whole universe cried for her dead because we will never have another being like her ever
Ward Dragon
21-12-08, 15:47
Croft Manor is a shrine to Medusa and Athena, Lara's seeming contempt for Tihocan, and admiration for Natla makes for an interesting mystery Crystal Dynamics have not really explained. Lara still seemed to hesitated to kill Natla at the end of Underworld, why?
Why do you think Lara has contempt for Tihocan and admiration for Natla?
As for not wanting to kill Natla, at first she wanted information and needed Natla to perform the ritual for her. After that, she didn't really get a chance until the ending sequence and she didn't want to risk wasting the Hammer if she missed.
Wana b like Lara
21-12-08, 16:04
Did CD have Natla in their sights right from the beginning?
Thougts?
This may have been posted before, but It's something I just found. I've posted it in Underworld since it has more relevence here...
Yeah, CD did want to make Underworld first but then Legend was made as a 'I'm Back' kinda thing! :D
Great find! :tmb:
I was wondering is it worth buying TRL again for the 360? :confused:
laralover_07
21-12-08, 16:45
Yeah, CD did want to make Underworld first but then Legend was made as a 'I'm Back' kinda thing! :D
Great find! :tmb:
I was wondering is it worth buying TRL again for the 360? :confused:
If you've played it on the PS2, and have an HD TV then yes. You get a better mood, the graphics are amazing and the lighting is 100x better. :D
And i picked it up for Ģ7.99 at Game. I love that shop :)
WOW It might be old but I never ever looked in the Tech Room...I just kept trying to do the different things in the Manor...I'll have to check this out next time I play ;) Great find! :D
Why do you think Lara has contempt for Tihocan and admiration for Natla?
As for not wanting to kill Natla, at first she wanted information and needed Natla to perform the ritual for her. After that, she didn't really get a chance until the ending sequence and she didn't want to risk wasting the Hammer if she missed.
Look at Lara's face, when she glances at Tihocan during Natla's imprisonment scene, the look she reserves for his piece of the scion, compared to the almost loving caress Natla's piece almost gets. When Lara says "You were the Queen of Atlantis!" it is with admiration. During the scene where Natla offers Lara immortality, Lara asks Natla what is it she desires, as if she was maybe hoping it was something other than what Natla seemed to want. Frankly l think much of Crystal Dynamics story telling abilitiy, they threw so many hints out there and did nothing with them. And probably they did an equally good job on Lara's reactions to the three Atlanteans, but then l do have an over active imagination. :D
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/AE%20game/th_Tihocan1.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/AE%20game/?action=view¤t=Tihocan1.jpg)http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/AE%20game/th_Image14.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/AE%20game/?action=view¤t=Image14.jpg)
Ward Dragon
21-12-08, 17:42
Look at Lara's face, when she glances at Tihocan during Natla's imprisonment scene, the look she reserves for his piece of the scion, compared to the almost loving caress Natla's piece almost gets.
I thought she was just wary because freaky things were happening and Qualopec had chased her last time she touched a piece of the Scion :p
When Lara says "You were the Queen of Atlantis!" it is with admiration.
Okay, I definitely see that.
During the scene where Natla offers Lara immortality, Lara asks Natla what is it she desires, as if she was maybe hoping it was something other than what Natla seemed to want.
I'm probably totally wrong here, but I had a completely different interpretation of that scene. I got a weird vibe that Natla was hitting on Lara, so I took Lara's tone of voice to be surprise and suspicion that she already knew the answer :p It reminded me of a scene in the Legacy of Kain series where an enemy has a lengthy conversation with Raziel and then makes a move to attack him, so Raziel blurts out, "What are you doing?" with this really awesome tone of voice that sounds like, "Oh I already know the answer, don't I?" :vlol:
In any case, I want Qualopec and Tihocan to be good guys if they ever appear in future games, so I hope Lara won't pick a fight with them before she finds out what they are after.
Lara.... Admiring Natla...?!?? Please, Australia, don't be so wild-minded :p Natla killed both her parents and you expect Lara to have some hidden love for her? Give me a break... What I saw in Lara's eyes when she said "You were the queen of Atlantis" was only her own enlightment. She was happy she wasn't on the wrong trace and that the fact Natla's revealed only brings her closer to Avalon. When she denied power, Lara didn't see a chance to be ..hm if I'm not getting you wrong "closer to her mother (whoever her mother might be)", she just denies herself a chance to be part of the Triumvirate , she just denies greed, power. That's how I see it.
Tombraiderx08
21-12-08, 19:14
i didnt know, coolness :D
Wana b like Lara
21-12-08, 19:28
If you've played it on the PS2, and have an HD TV then yes. You get a better mood, the graphics are amazing and the lighting is 100x better. :D
And i picked it up for Ģ7.99 at Game. I love that shop :)
Yeah i love GAME too! :D
But i don't have a HD TV i have a SD TV, does it really matter all that much? The TV condition i mean ...
Well, it's still better than some stupid random phone shops that sell it (probably illgegally) for about.. 79,99 ;)
This is old, but it's still so cool. :D Imagine if Anniversary was never made...how crazy would it have been to find out Natla would be coming back after all these years?! :cln:
Yeah i love GAME too! :D
But i don't have a HD TV i have a SD TV, does it really matter all that much? The TV condition i mean ...
Well, on an HDTV the game will simply wow you, but it still looks good on SD. ;D
Sekhraider
21-12-08, 19:49
I think I remember seeing this posted a while back but there was some parts not readable in the last thread. Thanks for translating and blowing up the image. I would say that, there's a collection of myths from different cultures that CD used to essentially make up who and what Natla was. In some cases, they are making her look like she was similar to Athena, with all that wisdom and what not, but then they make Natla look more like Diana, with the mentioning of war. To me, Natla had to be one or the other. No person or immortal can represent wisdom and then represent war. Throughout all ancient civilizations, many goddesses and gods personified certain human traits. They didnt personify all unless they were supreme rulers. Take Aphrodite and Hathor, they were beauty goddesses and only during certain times and scenarios, they went opposite and represented war. With Hathor she had her Mr. Hyde side with Sekhmet being the destroyer and avenger. For Natla, her character was always depicted as some hell bent immortal led by greed and power. She never portrayed any once of wisdom. Even in TRA in the cutscenes b/w her and the other two rulers, she is seen as the menace and trouble maker. The wise one is Tihocan. So I dont see the point in these myths on Zip's screen pointing to Natla as a wise immortal but then a war immortal too. Natla reminds me of Apep the evil serpent that Re, the sun god had to fight every time he journeyed through the underworld. Some gods are born evil incarnate and thats what Natla was. She was the bad seed. She may have been prophesized to be this great ruler and whatnot but the end result is, she was not wise enough to see what her actions were doing to the world that created her. One thing to note evil deities are usually gods of war but they are never wise gods. I would like to see what became of Tihocan. I think he is the one that would be similar to Zeus or Thor or Jupiter or Osiris. He's the more noble and wise of the three. I do like that in those myths mentioned on Zip's screen the almost biblical identification of Natla as a female Lucifer...now that is more likely than Natla "spranging" forth from Zeus' head. At the same time Lucifier started out as a beloved angel of God so maybe in some ways thats how Natla used to be before she somehow was "corrupted". Good then bad. Who knows.
Ward Dragon
21-12-08, 20:16
No person or immortal can represent wisdom and then represent war.
Athena did.
Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, war, the arts, industry, justice and skill.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/athena.html
laralover_07
21-12-08, 22:32
Indeed.
I think sekhraider slipped a bit there. :wve:
But I enjoy reading the replies, very interesting.
Lara.... Admiring Natla...?!?? Please, Australia, don't be so wild-minded :p Natla killed both her parents and you expect Lara to have some hidden love for her? Give me a break... What I saw in Lara's eyes when she said "You were the queen of Atlantis" was only her own enlightment. She was happy she wasn't on the wrong trace and that the fact Natla's revealed only brings her closer to Avalon. When she denied power, Lara didn't see a chance to be ..hm if I'm not getting you wrong "closer to her mother (whoever her mother might be)", she just denies herself a chance to be part of the Triumvirate , she just denies greed, power. That's how I see it.
Natla never says anything about killing Lara's mother, only that she knows where she is, and what happened to her. That the eitr animated remains of Amelia's body were to be found in Helheim might not have been precisely the correct answer to what happened to Amelia, it is just the most obvious. Natla said the dais was a network of sorts, so its not just a straight method of travelling as we know it. Amelia's body might have gone to Helhiem, but the rest of her might have gone elsewhere to the past perhaps, and Avalon, same location likely, different time and different Amelia, its a possibility. Once the sword bearers had finished their work and used the sword to return home where would they have gone and what would have been their likely reward, becoming a thrall seems unlikely. Lara knew nothing about her father working for Natla in TRA, or that Natla had been possibly involved in her father's death.
GodOfLight
21-12-08, 23:37
I think I remember seeing this posted a while back but there was some parts not readable in the last thread. Thanks for translating and blowing up the image. I would say that, there's a collection of myths from different cultures that CD used to essentially make up who and what Natla was. In some cases, they are making her look like she was similar to Athena, with all that wisdom and what not, but then they make Natla look more like Diana, with the mentioning of war. To me, Natla had to be one or the other. No person or immortal can represent wisdom and then represent war. Throughout all ancient civilizations, many goddesses and gods personified certain human traits. They didnt personify all unless they were supreme rulers. Take Aphrodite and Hathor, they were beauty goddesses and only during certain times and scenarios, they went opposite and represented war. With Hathor she had her Mr. Hyde side with Sekhmet being the destroyer and avenger. For Natla, her character was always depicted as some hell bent immortal led by greed and power. She never portrayed any once of wisdom. Even in TRA in the cutscenes b/w her and the other two rulers, she is seen as the menace and trouble maker. The wise one is Tihocan. So I dont see the point in these myths on Zip's screen pointing to Natla as a wise immortal but then a war immortal too. Natla reminds me of Apep the evil serpent that Re, the sun god had to fight every time he journeyed through the underworld. Some gods are born evil incarnate and thats what Natla was. She was the bad seed. She may have been prophesized to be this great ruler and whatnot but the end result is, she was not wise enough to see what her actions were doing to the world that created her. One thing to note evil deities are usually gods of war but they are never wise gods. I would like to see what became of Tihocan. I think he is the one that would be similar to Zeus or Thor or Jupiter or Osiris. He's the more noble and wise of the three. I do like that in those myths mentioned on Zip's screen the almost biblical identification of Natla as a female Lucifer...now that is more likely than Natla "spranging" forth from Zeus' head. At the same time Lucifier started out as a beloved angel of God so maybe in some ways thats how Natla used to be before she somehow was "corrupted". Good then bad. Who knows.
Diana was never even a goddess of war :confused: Athena always was war and wisdom... Diana (or Artemis) was the goddess of animals, the hunt, and virginity...
Diana was never even a goddess of war :confused: Athena always was war and wisdom... Diana (or Artemis) was the goddess of animals, the hunt, and virginity...
Yes, but Athena isn't usually the major goddess of war either; it was Ares (or Mars in Latin).
Also, I believe Odin was both a god of war and wisdom.
I think the post made by Sehkraider is quite a stretch into the idea that war doesn't go along well with wisdom, but to ancient cultures, war was a glorified thing, unlike today, and I don't really see where it was correlated with evil gods... Hades wasn't a god of war, nor Loki, nor Hel, nor Set...
I think the myth of the "fallen one" applied to Natla was more inspired by the story of Lucifer than anything else, really. She is the typical god-like figure who is betrayed by her passion for power. Like Morgoth in Tolkien's world. :p
Candee Sparks
22-12-08, 00:10
Thanks for posting, it was posted a while ago but it was just gibberish and no one decided to post what version it was from.
Thanks for posting, it was posted a while ago but it was just gibberish and no one decided to post what version it was from.
That's not true, in the original thread it stated that it was the PC version I believe and I KNOW that in my thread it said it was from the xbox360 version.
Rydell it has been mentioned that you cannot read the screens on the PC version.
GenyaArikado
22-12-08, 13:21
I think I remember seeing this posted a while back but there was some parts not readable in the last thread. Thanks for translating and blowing up the image. I would say that, there's a collection of myths from different cultures that CD used to essentially make up who and what Natla was. In some cases, they are making her look like she was similar to Athena, with all that wisdom and what not, but then they make Natla look more like Diana, with the mentioning of war. To me, Natla had to be one or the other. No person or immortal can represent wisdom and then represent war. Throughout all ancient civilizations, many goddesses and gods personified certain human traits. They didnt personify all unless they were supreme rulers. Take Aphrodite and Hathor, they were beauty goddesses and only during certain times and scenarios, they went opposite and represented war. With Hathor she had her Mr. Hyde side with Sekhmet being the destroyer and avenger. For Natla, her character was always depicted as some hell bent immortal led by greed and power. She never portrayed any once of wisdom. Even in TRA in the cutscenes b/w her and the other two rulers, she is seen as the menace and trouble maker. The wise one is Tihocan. So I dont see the point in these myths on Zip's screen pointing to Natla as a wise immortal but then a war immortal too. Natla reminds me of Apep the evil serpent that Re, the sun god had to fight every time he journeyed through the underworld. Some gods are born evil incarnate and thats what Natla was. She was the bad seed. She may have been prophesized to be this great ruler and whatnot but the end result is, she was not wise enough to see what her actions were doing to the world that created her. One thing to note evil deities are usually gods of war but they are never wise gods. I would like to see what became of Tihocan. I think he is the one that would be similar to Zeus or Thor or Jupiter or Osiris. He's the more noble and wise of the three. I do like that in those myths mentioned on Zip's screen the almost biblical identification of Natla as a female Lucifer...now that is more likely than Natla "spranging" forth from Zeus' head. At the same time Lucifier started out as a beloved angel of God so maybe in some ways thats how Natla used to be before she somehow was "corrupted". Good then bad. Who knows.
Athena was the godess of the war(the intelectual side of the war mainly) and the wisdom and was Bastet no Hathor, that when she was happy, she was the cat, and when she was angry, she was the lioness
Natla never says anything about killing Lara's mother, only that she knows where she is, and what happened to her. That the eitr animated remains of Amelia's body were to be found in Helheim might not have been precisely the correct answer to what happened to Amelia, it is just the most obvious. Natla said the dais was a network of sorts, so its not just a straight method of travelling as we know it. Amelia's body might have gone to Helhiem, but the rest of her might have gone elsewhere to the past perhaps, and Avalon, same location likely, different time and different Amelia, its a possibility. Once the sword bearers had finished their work and used the sword to return home where would they have gone and what would have been their likely reward, becoming a thrall seems unlikely. Lara knew nothing about her father working for Natla in TRA, or that Natla had been possibly involved in her father's death.
Very good point. But how does Natla's manipulation figure? Okay, she breaks Lara's spirit, she also turns her in a marionette of her own selfish desire, but how does this link to Amelia besides the fact she's also a puppet, a crippled puppet :p I sure hope that wasn't *cough* all of Amelia we saw there :rolleyes:, but I wouldn't want CD to make a WHOLE game about that.
Ah, I'll put one of your theories on doubt... Say she had gone back in time to a certain point of her life. Wouldn't that change the future/present? :/
Something misfugures... How can Lara be, thereotically, daughter of Athena, the goddess of war and wisdom and also play a role as a god of war and wisdom - Thor..? So that's really pagan :D She's mother and sister of her own self ;)
Very good point. But how does Natla's manipulation figure? Okay, she breaks Lara's spirit, she also turns her in a marionette of her own selfish desire, but how does this link to Amelia besides the fact she's also a puppet, a crippled puppet :p I sure hope that wasn't *cough* all of Amelia we saw there :rolleyes:, but I wouldn't want CD to make a WHOLE game about that.
Ah, I'll put one of your theories on doubt... Say she had gone back in time to a certain point of her life. Wouldn't that change the future/present? :/
Something misfugures... How can Lara be, thereotically, daughter of Athena, the goddess of war and wisdom and also play a role as a god of war and wisdom - Thor..? So that's really pagan :D She's mother and sister of her own self ;)
Thor was never a god of war but used the hammer to defend Asgard and at least in the game Odin is the god of wisdom, Thor while wise does not ever seem to have been a god of wisdom. l believe we just had a game following Amelia's path although the backstory was not precisely explained anywhere. And the suspicion is occurring to me that some of the music with the hints was not in the right location because at least part of the Deep Sea Encounter track that was released before the game was actually heard at the end of the Manor level, which makes no sense to me.
tomb_raider_roks
23-12-08, 15:43
i think cd had decided to bring back natla after the old anniversay edition vids made it back on the web, as there are crates with natla technoliges on the side in bolivia redux
tomb_raider_roks
23-12-08, 15:56
Natla said the dais was a network of sorts, so its not just a straight method of travelling as we know it. Amelia's body might have gone to Helhiem, but the Once the sword bearers had finished their work and used the sword to return home where would they have gone and what would have been their likely reward, becoming a thrall seems unlikely. Lara knew nothing about her father working for Natla in TRA, or that Natla had been possibly involved in her father's death.
===========================================
i dont believe the amelia we saw was the real one maybe its not a thrall but a dopplganger made by natla to toy with laras emotions
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