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LaraLuvrrr
16-02-09, 02:36
So Lara is all about trying to find the truth behind things. Archaeologists are always looking to go back in time through their studies and excavations to find answers to questions of the past... So I was wondering if that kind of knowledge could possibly be dangerous. If you had the choice to know everything or not which would you choose? Imagine if we knew the answers to everything but it was really not pretty... could you deal with that? I was just pondering this after researching the origins of man and God and all those questions noone can answer... I personally am not sure which I'd choose. I would want to know the truth because I don't want to live in an ignorant realm of avoidance but at the same time I'd be freaked to know the answers to all those questions :eek: lol :D

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 02:40
It would be a heavy weight to bear, but I would be very curious to know all of the answers.

spikejones
16-02-09, 02:43
well... I think I'm quite content the way I am right now. However, if there is ever something that piques my interest, I choose to learn as much as I can about that subject. History to be honest is not really one of the things that piques my interest.

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 02:49
I adore learning about history! If I could sit in my history class all day I would be in heaven!:D

Neteru
16-02-09, 02:59
If you had the choice to know everything or not which would you choose?I once dreamt I knew everything. :D

Obviously I'd choose to know, rather than remain blinkered.

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 03:01
Obviously I'd choose to know, rather than remain blinkered.

Knowing everything includes knowing pain and suffering as well. Possibly feelings that you have never felt before.

Joely-Moley
16-02-09, 03:02
I think Id rather not know. Im quite happy living in blissful ignorance.

Neteru
16-02-09, 03:05
Knowing everything includes knowing pain and suffering as well. Possibly feelings that you have never felt before.Yes. One should never fear truth.

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 03:09
Yes. One should never fear truth.

I guess that would be the part I wouldn't want to take part in. Not that I try to take the easy way out of everything, but who wants to suffer?

This reminds me of the book "The Giver" for some reason.:p

Neteru
16-02-09, 03:14
I guess that would be the part I wouldn't want to take part in. Not that I try to take the easy way out of everything, but who wants to suffer?

I'll say this. From a present consciousness perspective, nobody wants to suffer. But we all do in one way or another.

From another perspective I'll say this. All experience is valid.

This reminds me of the book "The Giver" for some reason.:pI'm not familiar with the book.

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 03:18
I'll say this. From a present consciousness perspective, nobody wants to suffer. But we all do in one way or another.

From another perspective I'll say this. All experience is valid.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I'm not familiar with the book.

It's most commonly a book that early teens read for school, but an interesting read nonetheless.

The Giver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver)

aileenwuornos
16-02-09, 03:24
I'll say this. From a present consciousness perspective, nobody wants to suffer. But we all do in one way or another.

From another perspective I'll say this. All experience is valid.

I'm not familiar with the book.

On your note of suffering, a wise woman I respect once gave me this valuable gem:

"Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional" - that is, how long or how intensely you feel about something that's caused you pain is more or less up to you.

It's kind making me think of The Hellbound Heart


On the note of the OP:
If I had a way to understand everything - I would, because it would just essentially open you up to a new level of learning and understanding.

Kind of like the Ascended in Stargate SG1 :ton:

Neteru
16-02-09, 03:26
It's most commonly a book that early teens read for school, but an interesting read nonetheless.

The Giver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver)Now I see why you were thinking of it. Suppression/avoidance based upon fear, essentially.

"Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional" - that is, how long or how intensely you feel about something that's caused you pain is more or less up to you.

Yes. Perception is everything.

spikejones
16-02-09, 03:37
Knowing everything includes knowing pain and suffering as well. Possibly feelings that you have never felt before.

well we already know pain and suffering do we not? I've probably experienced every type of emotional and physical pain there is, so that would not deter me from knowing all. that is if I so desired to know all. While I admit that I may be ignorant to many things in this world, I would have to say that I've a pretty good understanding of how life is. And to me, that is all that is really necessary to know. I don't see how being an all knowing being would make my quality of life any better. In fact, it may make things worse. Given today's society where many people fail to rally in support of a better existence for us all, out of some perceived notion of duty, how utterly horrible it would be to know you have the answer to all things.

Neteru
16-02-09, 03:39
well we already know pain and suffering do we not? I've probably experienced every type of emotional and physical pain there is, so that would not deter me from knowing all. that is if I so desired to know all. While I admit that I may be ignorant to many things in this world, I would have to say that I've a pretty good understanding of how life is. And to me, that is all that is really necessary to know. I don't see how being an all knowing being would make my quality of life any better. In fact, it may make things worse. Given today's society where many people fail to rally in support of a better existence for us all, out of some perceived notion of duty, how utterly horrible it would be to know you have the answer to all things.If you knew all things, you would also understand the deepest in all beings, and as such would also understand how and why 'they' can't make a 'better' life. From that perspective it surely would not be horrible. How can understanding be horrible? It can't, to my mind.

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 03:42
well we already know pain and suffering do we not? I've probably experienced every type of emotional and physical pain there is, so that would not deter me from knowing all. that is if I so desired to know all.

I haven't felt the loss of a parent.

I wouldn't want to know what it feels like to take a person's life.

aileenwuornos
16-02-09, 03:51
I haven't felt the loss of a parent.

I wouldn't want to know what it feels like to take a person's life.

My old English Lit teacher once said that one of the things they didn't tell you in the army (he was ****ing ancient and refused to reveal his age :ton:) was when you take a life for the first time you have tendency to poo+pee your pants or end up laughing hysterically.

p.s spikejones have you ever had a near death experience? you can't really understand life until that point imho :ton:

spikejones
16-02-09, 03:59
@aileenwuornos
If you've read all of my posts (which I don't blame you if you have not) then you would know that yes I most certainly have had a near death experience. so I do not appreciate you sticking your tongue out at me about that. it is very distasteful. you are acting under the assumption that I am just blowing **** out of my ass, but I ask you the same thing. Have you ever had a near death experience? If not then you have no right to ask that of a person.

@Net... alas I failed to reason that logic in. You took the omnisciency to a higher level even than I was imagining. If that were the case, would you not then be like a god?

LaraLuvrrr
16-02-09, 04:03
@aileenwuornos

@Net... alas I failed to reason that logic in. You took the omnisciency to a higher level even than I was imagining. If that were the case, would you not then be like a god?

Hmm... is knowledge God-like? I guess knowing it all would make one complete and not need to do anything further. Just exist like God. This reminds me of reincarnation lol

spikejones
16-02-09, 04:06
^ you refer to the philosophy of Nirvana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana)? It is not quite the same actually.

aileenwuornos
16-02-09, 04:09
@aileenwuornos
If you've read all of my posts (which I don't blame you if you have not) then you would know that yes I most certainly have had a near death experience. so I do not appreciate you sticking your tongue out at me about that. it is very distasteful. you are acting under the assumption that I am just blowing **** out of my ass, but I ask you the same thing. Have you ever had a near death experience? If not then you have no right to ask that of a person.

@Net... alas I failed to reason that logic in. You took the omnisciency to a higher level even than I was imagining. If that were the case, would you not then be like a god?

Hah, sorry mang, I just figure I'd throw that in so my point doesn't seem too, harsh? Heh, I think you might have been under the assumption I was under an assumption :ton:
And yeah I have actually (had a near death experience), and you always have the right to ask anyone anything you want - it's up to them to answer or not.

Lighten up eh?

LaraLuvrrr
16-02-09, 04:19
^ you refer to the philosophy of Nirvana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana)? It is not quite the same actually.
Yea. Like through our reincarnations we continue to learn until we learn it all and then reach Nirvana.... ok that isn't exactly the true philosophy but it can be someone's version of it I suppose.

spikejones
16-02-09, 04:36
Hah, sorry mang, I just figure I'd throw that in so my point doesn't seem too, harsh? Heh, I think you might have been under the assumption I was under an assumption :ton:
And yeah I have actually (had a near death experience), and you always have the right to ask anyone anything you want - it's up to them to answer or not.

Lighten up eh?
I'm not a "mang". And you apology is quite the funny one and leads me to believe it is not sincere the way you continue to make light of ones misfortune. To be honest with you, I viewed your comment as an attempt to place yourself above another by saying that unless you have come near to death - you know naught of life. And so my retort to you was in kind. Quid pro quo. Having the right to ask a question.... sure. But in the context in which it was received, It was not a very kind one - given your use of the tongue flicking emoticon to convey that you are teasing someone.

To tell you a bit about myself:
I've been addicted to drugs and alcohol for years before it was even legal for me to drink. My addiction nearly caused the death of me. I took some cold pills in extreme excess over the recommended dose with the intentions of getting high and dissociated from the world. I was trying to escape. That was on a Thursday night. I woke up in the hospital on Monday morning with no recollection of how I got there. My stomach wasnt pumped, but apparently they had to make me swallow charcoal and then brush my teeth - all while entirely intoxicated. I was told my heart had stopped and had to be jump started with the paddles. None of this do I recall. I still continued to take life jokingly afterwards and got high on a regular basis. This lead to me getting in lots of trouble with the law. Went to jail a few times and spent over 2 years of my life in prison. I don't take my life as a joke anymore. Life means more to me now than just riding the tail of some high. And the thing with drugs wasn't my first brush with death. there have been others as well. I was nearly drowned in a pool when I was younger, and before that I had pneumonia when I was about 2 years old.

I'll be honest with you, pain and death scare me not. I am a thrill seeker and I do things that most are afraid of doing because of a sense of danger about it. To me, that is what makes it worth the while. Being able to walk up to death, stare it in the face, say "**** you, its not my time yet", then have the time of your life. When I die, I hope that it is doing something I love to do. I may only be 24 years old, but I've probably experienced more things than most people older than I.
Yea. Like through our reincarnations we continue to learn until we learn it all and then reach Nirvana.... ok that isn't exactly the true philosophy but it can be someone's version of it I suppose.
this is pretty much a simplified version of how it was taught to me as well. it was presented to me as if every person had this metaphorical "box" into which all their experiences and knowledge were contained. Upon reincarnation, the cycle began again and the new knowledge and experiences gained in that lifetime were added to the same box. When the box became full... the person had reached Nirvana. Some may reach it quicker than others, some may not reach it all it might seem.

LaraLuvrrr
16-02-09, 04:52
I'm not a "mang". And you apology is quite the funny one and leads me to believe it is not sincere the way you continue to make light of ones misfortune. To be honest with you, I viewed your comment as an attempt to place yourself above another by saying that unless you have come near to death - you know naught of life. And so my retort to you was in kind. Quid pro quo. Having the right to ask a question.... sure. But in the context in which it was received, It was not a very kind one - given your use of the tongue flicking emoticon to convey that you are teasing someone.

To tell you a bit about myself:
I've been addicted to drugs and alcohol for years before it was even legal for me to drink. My addiction nearly caused the death of me. I took some cold pills in extreme excess over the recommended dose with the intentions of getting high and dissociated from the world. I was trying to escape. That was on a Thursday night. I woke up in the hospital on Monday morning with no recollection of how I got there. My stomach wasnt pumped, but apparently they had to make me swallow charcoal and then brush my teeth - all while entirely intoxicated. I was told my heart had stopped and had to be jump started with the paddles. None of this do I recall. I still continued to take life jokingly afterwards and got high on a regular basis. This lead to me getting in lots of trouble with the law. Went to jail a few times and spent over 2 years of my life in prison. I don't take my life as a joke anymore. Life means more to me now than just riding the tail of some high. And the thing with drugs wasn't my first brush with death. there have been others as well. I was nearly drowned in a pool when I was younger, and before that I had pneumonia when I was about 2 years old.

I'll be honest with you, pain and death scare me not. I am a thrill seeker and I do things that most are afraid of doing because of a sense of danger about it. To me, that is what makes it worth the while. Being able to walk up to death, stare it in the face, say "**** you, its not my time yet", then have the time of your life. When I die, I hope that it is doing something I love to do. I may only be 24 years old, but I've probably experienced more things than most people older than I.

this is pretty much a simplified version of how it was taught to me as well. it was presented to me as if every person had this metaphorical "box" into which all their experiences and knowledge were contained. Upon reincarnation, the cycle began again and the new knowledge and experiences gained in that lifetime were added to the same box. When the box became full... the person had reached Nirvana. Some may reach it quicker than others, some may not reach it all it might seem.

Well the true teaching of Nirvana is that it has more to do with releasing all negative karma through creating positive karma and then releasing oneself from all the desires of this world through meditation etc etc... not just gaining knowledge. If that were the case then Einstein must be way up in the Nirvana scale lol jk. But as for your story. That's crazy all the things you've been through... But I'm glad you see now how precious life is. I hope you don't keep messing with death though :(. I respect death so I will only take risks that are necessary. And death always has power over you not vise versa... it can take you when it feels like it. In fact death is the norm in the universe (until we find other life) so really our living is the exception to the rule. That's why I respect my life... but anyways I'm not here to give you a lecture about anything just my thoughts and beliefs. That's awesome that you've been able to get through all that and I hope you can find peace and happiness in life cuz you've been through alot. I have a friend that's a recovering drug addict and you'd never think cuz she has become so much stronger after that. She's happy and responsible and cherishes every second she has in life :)

spikejones
16-02-09, 05:14
It has been since 9th or 10th grade that I studied Buddhism so there is much that I have forgotten.

as for me, yes, I do hold life precious and cherish every minute of it. It is common practice among recovering alcoholics and addicts to make a list of 10 things we are grateful for. Number one on my list is always that I am alive. I know that death is a natural part of the cycle of life, which is why I am not afraid of it. I have faith that my higher power has a plan for me yet, elsewise I would likely not be here today. So for me, I can do all things through having faith.

My role in this life may not be to play the role of a great leader or a revolutionist. My role has not been made clear as yet. Perhaps my role may simply be to share with others my experiences in hopes to shed the light of hope where things are at their darkest. And as for your friend, good on her. Those who make it out and stay out come out the better for it. And the program.. it is not much about drinking or drugging, as it is about being a better person. The principles of the program (http://12step.org/) are things that all people should strive to live by.

LaraLuvrrr
16-02-09, 05:24
It has been since 9th or 10th grade that I studied Buddhism so there is much that I have forgotten.

as for me, yes, I do hold life precious and cherish every minute of it. It is common practice among recovering alcoholics and addicts to make a list of 10 things we are grateful for. Number one on my list is always that I am alive. I know that death is a natural part of the cycle of life, which is why I am not afraid of it. I have faith that my higher power has a plan for me yet, elsewise I would likely not be here today. So for me, I can do all things through having faith.

My role in this life may not be to play the role of a great leader or a revolutionist. My role has not been made clear as yet. Perhaps my role may simply be to share with others my experiences in hopes to shed the light of hope where things are at their darkest. And as for your friend, good on her. Those who make it out and stay out come out the better for it. And the program.. it is not much about drinking or drugging, as it is about being a better person. The principles of the program (http://12step.org/) are things that all people should strive to live by.

Yea I agree. I love the 12 steps they are spiritual things to live by. I'm gonna print them out and put em on my wall :)

EmeraldFields
16-02-09, 05:27
I'm not a "mang". And you apology is quite the funny one and leads me to believe it is not sincere the way you continue to make light of ones misfortune. To be honest with you, I viewed your comment as an attempt to place yourself above another by saying that unless you have come near to death - you know naught of life. And so my retort to you was in kind. Quid pro quo. Having the right to ask a question.... sure. But in the context in which it was received, It was not a very kind one - given your use of the tongue flicking emoticon to convey that you are teasing someone.

To tell you a bit about myself:
I've been addicted to drugs and alcohol for years before it was even legal for me to drink. My addiction nearly caused the death of me. I took some cold pills in extreme excess over the recommended dose with the intentions of getting high and dissociated from the world. I was trying to escape. That was on a Thursday night. I woke up in the hospital on Monday morning with no recollection of how I got there. My stomach wasnt pumped, but apparently they had to make me swallow charcoal and then brush my teeth - all while entirely intoxicated. I was told my heart had stopped and had to be jump started with the paddles. None of this do I recall. I still continued to take life jokingly afterwards and got high on a regular basis. This lead to me getting in lots of trouble with the law. Went to jail a few times and spent over 2 years of my life in prison. I don't take my life as a joke anymore. Life means more to me now than just riding the tail of some high. And the thing with drugs wasn't my first brush with death. there have been others as well. I was nearly drowned in a pool when I was younger, and before that I had pneumonia when I was about 2 years old.

I'll be honest with you, pain and death scare me not. I am a thrill seeker and I do things that most are afraid of doing because of a sense of danger about it. To me, that is what makes it worth the while. Being able to walk up to death, stare it in the face, say "**** you, its not my time yet", then have the time of your life. When I die, I hope that it is doing something I love to do. I may only be 24 years old, but I've probably experienced more things than most people older than I.

My goodness. I'm sorry for all of the hardships that life has brought you. I wish you the best for the future:hug:

I'm always the sappy one.:o

Punaxe
16-02-09, 11:57
It has been since 9th or 10th grade that I studied Buddhism so there is much that I have forgotten.

as for me, yes, I do hold life precious and cherish every minute of it. It is common practice among recovering alcoholics and addicts to make a list of 10 things we are grateful for. Number one on my list is always that I am alive. I know that death is a natural part of the cycle of life, which is why I am not afraid of it. I have faith that my higher power has a plan for me yet, elsewise I would likely not be here today. So for me, I can do all things through having faith.

My role in this life may not be to play the role of a great leader or a revolutionist. My role has not been made clear as yet. Perhaps my role may simply be to share with others my experiences in hopes to shed the light of hope where things are at their darkest. And as for your friend, good on her. Those who make it out and stay out come out the better for it. And the program.. it is not much about drinking or drugging, as it is about being a better person. The principles of the program (http://12step.org/) are things that all people should strive to live by.

It is great that this program helped you, and all power to that, but I personally would dismiss those steps in an instant for calling to a god. Not in the least because it doesn't seem to be the right message. I'd rather tell them the power to get over it is within themselves, not someone/something else.

Back on topic, I would definitely choose to know it all if I could (unless it's the same experience as in Indy 4 :p), but to answer the question: yes, truth can be too much to handle, for some people. Ignorance is bliss; it takes a strong person to not be depressed by the many ugly facts our world holds.

Goose
16-02-09, 12:26
I'm not a "mang". And you apology is quite the funny one and leads me to believe it is not sincere the way you continue to make light of ones misfortune. To be honest with you, I viewed your comment as an attempt to place yourself above another by saying that unless you have come near to death - you know naught of life.


Im not sure you know much about death, in the military death is a function, iv been under the command of people who have killed, and im friends with people who have killed and nearly been killed. They dont know about death, although they have seen it, and almost felt it, they know about unexplained intervention.


I'll be honest with you, pain and death scare me not.


Thats because it appears you have never experienced real death, death isnt about us, its about those we love, when i saw paramedics take my dead father out my house, thats when i first experienced death.

If you had seen someone you love die, you would be terrified of it. When i think about going to Afghanistan or possibly Iraq if were staying there, and me dieing, i dont think about the pain of being shot or running over an IED in my truck, i think of how my mother would feel, that's what death is all about, not the act of dieing.

Iv experienced it, but i dont know about it, and ill never claim to. Its not for the living to know. If anything, i feel sorry for those who have the pain of someone they love dieing in store for there future.

Reggie
16-02-09, 13:32
As human beings this is a question that will forever be debated among us. Our intellectual needs tells us to seek the truth and yet our very nature is to tell stories and indulge ourselves in imagined, fictional worlds. The fact we are now on a Tomb Raider Forum is all part of that indulgence of being a fan of someone who isn't real.

So that I why I think its accurate enough to say that as human's we all prefer 'half truths'. We like the idea of there being freely available information, we like knowing that we're having the wool pulled over our eyes but at the same time many of us in society willingly lull ourselves into a stupour in front of the TV and we cast aside any pursuit for truth. People will pick up the Sun newspaper and happily take it as the 'truth'. But I don't mock anyone for leading this kind of life because as I've just said, this way of getting partial truths that are dressed up nicely is ingrained in our very nature.

But here's a little story from myself:
Last year, in my philosophy class, my philosophy teacher gave me extremely good reasons not to believe in our modern political system, especially rights and liberalism. His arguments were faultless and the logic was completely stable. This was triggered by the fact he almost got fired because swore in front of the class, not to insult but just to make a philosophical point. He's an excellent orator and that combined with his reasoning brought my whole concept of the political world around me crashing down. I cried for for a good hour after that for various reasons but its only in hindsight that I realised that once someone's beliefs or delusions (like the ones I had regarding rights, liberalism etc) are taken away by logic and truth, it upsets and unsettles the individual.

The soft pillow of certainty seems to be the easiest way through life for some people and I don't blame them.

kristi
16-02-09, 13:39
They say knowledge is power.No.For her,knowledge is a poison.Knowing the time of her death tormets her. - Kaileena.

I believe it's enough.You must know many things,but knowledge must hve a limit.

Goose
16-02-09, 13:55
But here's a little story from myself:
Last year, in my philosophy class, my philosophy teacher gave me extremely good reasons not to believe in our modern political system, especially rights and liberalism. His arguments were faultless and the logic was completely stable. This was triggered by the fact he almost got fired because swore in front of the class, not to insult but just to make a philosophical point. He's an excellent orator and that combined with his reasoning brought my whole concept of the political world around me crashing down. I cried for for a good hour after that for various reasons but its only in hindsight that I realised that once someone's beliefs or delusions (like the ones I had regarding rights, liberalism etc) are taken away by logic and truth, it upsets and unsettles the individual.

http://socialscience.cypresscollege.edu/~lyerby/image/vietnam/protest.jpg

Realism........................................... .....and Idealism.

He obviously taught you the difference.

Truly shared ideals don't exist.

Reggie
16-02-09, 14:00
http://socialscience.cypresscollege.edu/%7Elyerby/image/vietnam/protest.jpg

Realism........................................... .....and Idealism.

He obviously taught you the difference.

Truly shared ideals don't exist.

That's right. And I must say that although it upset and unsettled me at the time, I feel free the anger and contempt that idealism holds. This teaching of realism has been a liberation for me from all that and I'm thankful for it. :)

Lee croft
16-02-09, 14:04
I once dreamt I knew everything. :D

Obviously I'd choose to know, rather than remain blinkered.

but knowing everything could cause stress on the brain if you hold to much information your brain would shut down due to overload and then well no ones... because you'd have to know everything to find out what happens after :D i wouldnt like to know it would make you paranoid all the time

Goose
16-02-09, 14:05
That's right. And I must say that although it upset and unsettled me at the time, I feel free the anger and contempt that idealism holds. This teaching of realism has been a liberation for me from all that and I'm thankful for it. :)

Realism teaches that life is as good as you make it! Which is also Capitalisms main point, its not about waiting for other people to help you out.

Life is better when your in control!

Indiana Croft
16-02-09, 14:49
If I ever had the opportunity to find such answers, I'd jump on the chance immediately. I want to know the truth

Neteru
16-02-09, 18:27
@Net... alas I failed to reason that logic in. You took the omnisciency to a higher level even than I was imagining. If that were the case, would you not then be like a god?Perhaps. Especially if you believe omniscience leads to omnipotence.

robm_2007
16-02-09, 18:42
i would never want to know everything.

it would be too much too handle. then you would have no reason to wonder.

spikejones
16-02-09, 18:49
If you had seen someone you love die, you would be terrified of it. When i think about going to Afghanistan or possibly Iraq if were staying there, and me dieing, i dont think about the pain of being shot or running over an IED in my truck, i think of how my mother would feel, that's what death is all about, not the act of dieing.

edit: oopps. I wrote part of my response in the quote box.

I have. I find it funny that people assume that just because a particular experience had a particular effect on them, that it will have the same effect on others. That is not the case. I've seen a few family members buried, and even one of my close childhood friends. Death is a part of life, everyone will die including yourself. and when you accept that, it becomes easier to live life more comfortably without the fear of death.

Perhaps. Especially if you believe omniscience leads to omnipotence.
Well they do say that "knowledge is power". And if you know all, and you subsequently know the inner workings of a person - what makes them tick etc.. you can in turn "manipulate" them to do what you desire them to do. So yes.. you would be quite the god like essence.


@punaxe - I see where you are coming from about the power to get over alcohol and drug addiction needing to come within the person. this is not to say that you just say "god help me" and then everything is fixed. There most certainly is work that must be done on the part of the individual themself. I hate it when people are so misinformed as to call an addict a weak person with no will power. That is totally ignorant of the facts though. Many addicts and alcoholics have greater will power than those who are "normal". It is just that we have a genetic disorder that lends to being addicted to substances very easily and our bodies simply refuse to function properly without those substances. The program as I mentioned is less about drugs and alcohol as it is about life itself.

violentblossom
16-02-09, 18:52
i would never want to know everything, otherwise, what would be the point of living?

life is about seeking knowledge, essentially... i like experiencing things as opposed to something just being given to me.

Goose
16-02-09, 19:05
I have. I find it funny that people assume that just because a particular experience had a particular effect on them, that it will have the same effect on others. That is not the case. I've seen a few family members buried, and even one of my close childhood friends. Death is a part of life, everyone will die including yourself. and when you accept that, it becomes easier to live life more comfortably without the fear of death.


Having a parent die when your a young teen, infront of you, then being carried out of your life forever is terrifying to anyone i know, no matter what your background. You should be scared of it, brings in the natural instinct of caring and looking after people, without it your abit of a nob who takes people for granted.

Accepting death has nothing to do with it, i wouldn't join the military if i couldn't accept my own mortality. You may have entered into a situtation unwittingly that could have ended in death, but that would make you ignorant of death, not unafraid, im scared of going to Afghanistan, i should be, its healthy. Im not scared of going out on a day that i get mugged and stabbed though.

Reggie
16-02-09, 19:12
Having a parent die when your a young teen, infront of you, then being carried out of your life forever is terrifying to anyone i know, no matter what your background. You should be scared of it, brings in the natural instinct of caring and looking after people, without it your abit of a nob who takes people for granted.

Accepting death has nothing to do with it, i wouldn't join the military if i couldn't accept my own mortality. You may have entered into a situtation unwittingly that could have ended in death, but that would make you ignorant of death, not unafraid, im scared of going to Afghanistan, i should be, its healthy. Im not scared of going out on a day that i get mugged and stabbed though.

I missed the fact you were going to Afghanistan.
To be honest, I had people that willingly go to those places as being unaware of their own mortality. I mean, the majority of young men that go out there seem to have no idea. Eddie Haskell was talking about that fact as well. But then I see your posts and then the fact you're going to Afghanistan and I must ask 'why?'. I respect you for whatever reason it is though (same for anyone else).

spikejones
16-02-09, 19:14
seems you posted while I was editing my own post:

I had a very deep spiritual experience whereupon I received the news that my Grandmother tried to kill herself by overdosing on pain medications. The feeling I got from that was indescribable save to say that it was a truly gut-wrenching experience. But I knew in my heart of hearts that the feelings I was having at that moment were naught as compared to what my own mother must have experienced upon seeing me in quite the similar situation. This was one of the eye openers for me that led me to get myself cleaned up.

But death does not scare me still, because I accept it as a part of nature. Sure people will grieve for me when I am gone - at least I hope so, but they will heal and they will move on with their lives. This is not to make myself sound selfish, but simply to point out that no one is here on this world forever. I for one am not content to "play it safe" and not enjoy my time on this world by sitting in a cubicle my whole life. I desire much more than that kind of dull existence.

I will add this:
To live ones life out of a feeling of duty to always be around for your own family is noble, but where do you fit yourself in to the picture? Are you to deny yourself the joys of your own desires simply to say that "I did not do this because my family needs me?" And to be honest with you, the person who it is that you experienced the loss of matters not - it is the depth of the relationship which you had with them that matters most. So to say that loosing ones father is a greater loss that loosing ones grandfather or best friend is somewhat lacking in substance. I had a very close relationship with both of those people.

Goose
16-02-09, 19:23
I missed the fact you were going to Afghanistan.
To be honest, I had people that willingly go to those places as being unaware of their own mortality. I mean, the majority of young men that go out there seem to have no idea. Eddie Haskell was talking about that fact as well. But then I see your posts and then the fact you're going to Afghanistan and I must ask 'why?'. I respect you for whatever reason it is though (same for anyone else).

At no point has our generation (unless they are VERY sheltered) been led to believe that war doesn't involve death on both sides. The ignorance excuse is even worse considering basic training is taught to deal with worse case scenarios on every subject. Soldiers individual mortality is not the big issue with PTSD anyway in modern conflicts, but you should read about it if its something that interests you.

Lol 'why?', if i dont who will? All the beautiful people stay at home and get laid and have there mtv/skins style life, i dont like it, even if i did iv never been accepted as a part of it. The military is a sub culture, its a place for anyone, and it gives you satisfaction when you cant find it elsewhere as a civilian. Life on base is everything a civil society should be. Afghanistan isnt a calling to me, its where the military will send me, and my friends in other services iv known since school. Its an experience that men have been drawn to for thousands of years, its not odd at all, its odd that men would rather read about it or play video games then do it in reality these days (although that is a better option).

seems you posted while I was editing my own post:

But death does not scare me still, because I accept it as a part of nature. Sure people will grieve for me when I am gone - at least I hope so, but they will heal and they will move on with their lives. This is not to make myself sound selfish, but simply to point out that no one is here on this world forever. I for one am not content to "play it safe" and not enjoy my time on this world by sitting in a cubicle my whole life. I desire much more than that kind of dull existence.

Wouldnt you find what your looking for on a battlefield? You wont find much in civilian life.


I will add this:
To live ones life out of a feeling of duty to always be around for your own family is noble, but where do you fit yourself in to the picture? Are you to deny yourself the joys of your own desires simply to say that "I did not do this because my family needs me?" And to be honest with you, the person who it is that you experienced the loss of matters not - it is the depth of the relationship which you had with them that matters most. So to say that loosing ones father is a greater loss that loosing ones grandfather or best friend is somewhat lacking in substance. I had a very close relationship with both of those people.

I dont live with my family, but i still put them first, its nature, were no different to any other animal.

spikejones
16-02-09, 19:28
goose... I think the true reason why one should decide to join the military is NOT because one has a sense of dissatisfaction with what their nations society has become, but rather because they want to PROTECT that way of life. To serve one's nation. Uphold freedom and liberty.

It's been suggested to me that I join the military as a quick way to find a job, yet I do not agree with this viewpoint. I choose not to join the military because I find great flaw with the way that our nation polices the globe. I wish to have no part in that.

Goose
16-02-09, 19:36
goose... I think the true reason why one should decide to join the military is NOT because one has a sense of dissatisfaction with what their nations society has become, but rather because they want to PROTECT that way of life. To serve one's nation. Uphold freedom and liberty.

It's been suggested to me that I join the military as a quick way to find a job, yet I do not agree with this viewpoint. I choose not to join the military because I find great flaw with the way that our nation polices the globe. I wish to have no part in that.

No one joins through patriotism alone, besides, Britain wouldn't have a military if people did, we have a left wing government who preaches multiculturalism over nationalism, were loosing our identity as an armed force, passed battles are being forced out of our memories and replaced with 'UN peacekeeping successes in Africa', we cant even fly the George cross during the World Cup, Our countries ****ing flag.

Im Patriotic enough, but when you finish basic training life is nothing like a civilians interpretation of service.

In fact, partly i joined because i agree with the UN mission in Afghanistan, everyone who goes there see's what the Taliban have done and do to locals, and how the west could help. Iraq is over, you can take foreign policy off the lists of reasons not to join, and consider it as a good option again.

Draco
16-02-09, 19:46
The only knowledge I need is that which tells me there is more left to learn.

Reggie
16-02-09, 19:56
At no point has our generation (unless they are VERY sheltered) been led to believe that war doesn't involve death on both sides. The ignorance excuse is even worse considering basic training is taught to deal with worse case scenarios on every subject. Soldiers individual mortality is not the big issue with PTSD anyway in modern conflicts, but you should read about it if its something that interests you.

Lol 'why?', if i dont who will? All the beautiful people stay at home and get laid and have there mtv/skins style life, i dont like it, even if i did iv never been accepted as a part of it. The military is a sub culture, its a place for anyone, and it gives you satisfaction when you cant find it elsewhere as a civilian. Life on base is everything a civil society should be. Afghanistan isnt a calling to me, its where the military will send me, and my friends in other services iv known since school. Its an experience that men have been drawn to for thousands of years, its not odd at all, its odd that men would rather read about it or play video games then do it in reality these days (although that is a better option).



Wouldnt you find what your looking for on a battlefield? You wont find much in civilian life.



I dont live with my family, but i still put them first, its nature, were no different to any other animal.

You remind me of my old friends and I've not had the fortune to speak to someone like you in a long time. You have no idea how many people I speak to each day who just-don't-get-it. The whole idea of death may be heavily televised and presented to us each and every day but its become desensitised and like you've basically said its all about materialistic, superficial stuff like watching TV, playing games etc.

I know the kind of society you speak of and I respect you for living your own life - I started considering going into the military myself for similar reasons and personal events in my life. I'm also very disillusioned with the way my peers are destined for cubicles and desks and discussing meaningless things around the water cooler, its an all too common thing.
When I raised the idea with friends they were all a bit distgusted with the idea...so I just left it but after reading your explanation, its making me think again.

My friends I had before college however (Ryan, Joe, Dave, John - the list goes on...) have all decided they want to join the military in some form and before I never understood but I do now.
I'm at a crossroads myself in life and the death of a close friend of my mum (thus very close to me and my dad) just before christmas really puts things into perspective. I left TRF early 2008 and I came back this year a changed person, I'll never be the same again after the year I've had - on the surface it looks like it but I'm not.

What I'm getting at is that there may come a day - I don't know when, that I decide to take the same path as you and my old friends. I can relate. Linking this back to the question of truth...well I guess the truth can never be found until you're actually out there rather than looking at a screen but for most, its more comfortable to stay put.

Edit: Sorry if I'm pouring myself out too much since I don't even really know you. I think I've needed to get this off my chest.

spikejones
16-02-09, 20:04
being that I don't follow politics much nor world events, I can't say much in the way of foreign policy. However, I look at it like this.... aside from the American Revolution and the Civil War, when was the last time that a battle took place upon the mainland of America? I don't count Pearl Harbor as it was a hit and run bombing, nor do I count the attack on the World Trade Center as it was a crash and burn suicide mission. But we see on the news all the time our Armed forces running around in foreign countries enforcing our ideals of democracy where we really should not be occupying those locations in the first place. I've yet to hear of another country invading and trying to occupy our territory, so why must we occupy other lands? Leave it alone I say.

If there were a threat to my own country - I surely would break the law and pick up arms in defense of my land though. But being I don't follow current events and politics, I don't see those threats. I don't see other armies coming to my land and trying to change our system. (Although the system is flawed at best in my opinion)

But... my step father was in the military for 30 years and retired as a Major. Both my Grandparents on my mothers side are retired from the Air Force. I myself did a couple years of AFJROTC in High School, so I know a good deal about the military life and what not. I grew up as a military brat.

Goose
16-02-09, 20:15
What I'm getting at is that there may come a day - I don't know when, that I decide to take the same path as you and my old friends. I can relate. Linking this back to the question of truth...well I guess the truth can never be found until you're actually out there rather than looking at a screen but for most, its more comfortable to stay put.

Edit: Sorry if I'm pouring myself out too much since I don't even really know you. I think I've needed to get this off my chest.

Dont worry about it, the military will take you out of your old social life, and put you into a totally new environment, you'll learn skills that will help you in war and in the civilian world, you learn alot about how to work with people, how to push yourself when things get tough.

In all fairness, there is never a better time to join then during a war is there?

Goose
16-02-09, 20:21
If there were a threat to my own country - I surely would break the law and pick up arms in defense of my land though. But being I don't follow current events and politics, I don't see those threats. I don't see other armies coming to my land and trying to change our system. (Although the system is flawed at best in my opinion)


My father was a Lance Sergeant in the Grenadier guards, his father was in the Line Infantry as a Sergeant, my great grandfather was in the trenches in world war one on my mothers side its air force parents. Its in my blood, didnt prepare me at all for reality though.

Thats because you hold idealistic views, rather then realistic ones. Even better reason for someone like you to join the military, because when you do, you'll **** a brick about what life is. The united nations missions we do are not through choice, but through duty, the west has a duty to give what they have in terms of aid to the poor.

Reggie
16-02-09, 20:24
Dont worry about it, the military will take you out of your old social life, and put you into a totally new environment, you'll learn skills that will help you in war and in the civilian world, you learn alot about how to work with people, how to push yourself when things get tough.

In all fairness, there is never a better time to join then during a war is there?

I see what you're saying but I'll have to think on it. It wasn't so long ago that I was as liberal as they get but even back then I had a feeling something was missing, not right. Obviously I know now, its whether I choose to act on it. Its a huge life decision for anyone. I might get in touch with one of the friends I mentioned and talk it through. Thanks.

Goose
16-02-09, 20:31
I see what you're saying but I'll have to think on it. It wasn't so long ago that I was as liberal as they get but even back then I had a feeling something was missing, not right. Obviously I know now, its whether I choose to act on it. Its a huge life decision for anyone. I might get in touch with one of the friends I mentioned and talk it through. Thanks.

Yea sounds good, figure it out if its what you want first, im in the air force as a driver, theres loads of trades to do in the military, but im in for 9 years, so you have to be up for a challenge and a laugh at your expense.

Punaxe
16-02-09, 20:44
I see what you're saying but I'll have to think on it. It wasn't so long ago that I was as liberal as they get but even back then I had a feeling something was missing, not right. Obviously I know now, its whether I choose to act on it. Its a huge life decision for anyone. I might get in touch with one of the friends I mentioned and talk it through. Thanks.

For a taste, you could also consider the Reserve Force, which gives you an initial two-week training and then requires two days per month of your time for training, and then some duty time throughout the year. I don't know much about it yet but I'm considering it myself :)

Goose
16-02-09, 20:47
For a taste, you could also consider the Reserve Force, which gives you an initial two-week training and then requires two days per month of your time for training, and then some duty time throughout the year. I don't know much about it yet but I'm considering it myself :)

Yea, TA has alot of roles that are good, they even have a Parachute battlion, Artillery STA, even SAS.

Reggie
16-02-09, 20:51
For a taste, you could also consider the Reserve Force, which gives you an initial two-week training and then requires two days per month of your time for training, and then some duty time throughout the year. I don't know much about it yet but I'm considering it myself :)

Noted. Cheers for that, I'll let you know if I act on it maybe you can do the same? Always good to another POV. :tmb:

Goose
16-02-09, 20:52
Noted. Cheers for that, I'll let you know if I act on it maybe you can do the same? Always good to another POV. :tmb:

POV is always good....

spikejones
16-02-09, 22:34
Thats because you hold idealistic views, rather then realistic ones. Even better reason for someone like you to join the military, because when you do, you'll **** a brick about what life is. The united nations missions we do are not through choice, but through duty, the west has a duty to give what they have in terms of aid to the poor.
there you go again assuming what another is about. very close minded of you I might say. first you assume I know nothing of death, then you assume I know nothing of life. It seems to me as though you are bitter person yourself with his own idealistic views of life and try to impress those views upon others.

Now here is life in a nutshell... you are born, you wander the surface of the planet wondering what you are doing here, you die. How is that idealistic? Note that I did not say "life is fair", "life is peachy", "life is long", or the inverse feeling of those, or any of the other ideals that people have about it. Life just IS.

as for war being the best time to join the military... obviously that is the best chance to get in to the military for some people such as myself with a criminal background. The marines would not even take me right now (I talked to them just today) because they are in excess of their recruitment quota. The army on the other hand is not meeting their quota and are willing to stretch the rules or overlook some things in order to get up to their quota. As for it being the best time for someone to go into the military... that is debatable. If the military is in a rush to put a group of young recruits through 2 to 4 weeks of basic training and then ship them out to battle, how can this be a good time to join? That is hardly enough time to prepare a person for battle, and will ultimately lead to more deaths than if the troops were adequately trained.

----

edit:
pokes head in... sees dead thread... apologizes for anyone's hurt feelings.
leaves.

Goose
17-02-09, 07:31
there you go again assuming what another is about. very close minded of you I might say. first you assume I know nothing of death, then you assume I know nothing of life. It seems to me as though you are bitter person yourself with his own idealistic views of life and try to impress those views upon others.

If the military is in a rush to put a group of young recruits through 2 to 4 weeks of basic training and then ship them out to battle, how can this be a good time to join? That is hardly enough time to prepare a person for battle, and will ultimately lead to more deaths than if the troops were adequately trained.


Us army training is alot more then 4 weeks lol, you have basic, then trade, like we do. NATO demands certain levels of expertise, not only so you can serve your country, but so you can serve with other countries. Servicemen in peace time dream of war, those who command them have gained respect through fighting in one, they want that respect to, and the experience. Your taught about your services past, and how there finest hours have all been during conflicts.

goose... I think the true reason why one should decide to join the military is NOT because one has a sense of dissatisfaction with what their nations society has become, but rather because they want to PROTECT that way of life. To serve one's nation. Uphold freedom and liberty.

It's been suggested to me that I join the military as a quick way to find a job, yet I do not agree with this viewpoint. I choose not to join the military because I find great flaw with the way that our nation polices the globe. I wish to have no part in that.

That post is as idealistic as you can get, 'taking up arms' to defend your country, all servicemen should live on patriotism, that world powers should not help others, but protect themselves only, not getting an otherwise great job because you don't agree with foreign policy. I only told you my realistic view of things as iv experienced them. I only assumed you know nothing about death because your trying to say it doesn't scare you. Im not scared of dieing of old age, or getting hit by a car, but everyone's scared of dieing when it comes down to it.

spikejones
17-02-09, 18:31
Us army training is alot more then 4 weeks lol, you have basic, then trade, like we do. NATO demands certain levels of expertise, not only so you can serve your country, but so you can serve with other countries. Servicemen in peace time dream of war, those who command them have gained respect through fighting in one, they want that respect to, and the experience. Your taught about your services past, and how there finest hours have all been during conflicts.

They only gain respect from fighting in a war from those who find that kind of thing attractive. And again, only people who find that type thing attractive will hope to gain respect from doing such. Not all people desire to run around on a battle field and needlessly kill other people, all because one president insulted another one - or said "no you can't have this"

That post is as idealistic as you can get, 'taking up arms' to defend your country, all servicemen should live on patriotism, that world powers should not help others, but protect themselves only, not getting an otherwise great job because you don't agree with foreign policy. I only told you my realistic view of things as iv experienced them.so you profess to say that I have an idealistic view of life, but you decide to pick only on that post but not the one where I quite clearly laid out a non idealistic view of life. My thoughts on world peace / peace keeping are irrelevant to life itself. so I don't understand why you called it an idealistic view on life. You seem a bit confused. Politics and Religion are not what life is about, so if that is how you live your life - by some book, then I pity you. That in itself is idealistic. How can you profess to claim that your ideals are realistic whereas one other persons ideals are not realistic? To me, my own ideals are realistic and yours are not - because they are what I relate to from my own experience. I don't buy into others ideals and brainwashing if I do not agree with them.

Goose
17-02-09, 18:43
They only gain respect from fighting in a war from those who find that kind of thing attractive. And again, only people who find that type thing attractive will hope to gain respect from doing such. Not all people desire to run around on a battle field and needlessly kill other people, all because one president insulted another one - or said "no you can't have this"


They dont need respect from anyone else, respect from a peer or veteran is enough, someone who understands what they have been through. Im not going to run around a battlefield, im going to be working on convoys driving trucks on operations.


so you profess to say that I have an idealistic view of life, but you decide to pick only on that post but not the one where I quite clearly laid out a non idealistic view of life. My thoughts on world peace / peace keeping are irrelevant to life itself. so I don't understand why you called it an idealistic view on life. You seem a bit confused. Politics and Religion are not what life is about, so if that is how you live your life - by some book, then I pity you. That in itself is idealistic. How can you profess to claim that your ideals are realistic whereas one other persons ideals are not realistic? To me, my own ideals are realistic and yours are not - because they are what I relate to from my own experience. I don't buy into others ideals and brainwashing if I do not agree with them.

Because i said you were idealistic in response to your post on your views on what service should be, im living it, your thinking it. So i can safely say my views are based on reality, yours is based on opinions and ideals.

spikejones
17-02-09, 18:50
They dont need respect from anyone else, respect from a peer or veteran is enough, someone who understands.

And the respect that I receive from my own peers - the ones who understand me - is all that matters to me.

Because i said you were idealistic in response to your post on your views on what service should be, im living it, your thinking it. So i can safely say my views are based on reality.
Your views are only based solely upon your opinion of reality. But what is reality? What is realistic and unrealistic? Perhaps your reality is military life.
My reality is civilian life. What is considered realistic by the one, shall be considered unrealistic or idealistic by the other. What is the universal reality? Do you claim to hold knowledge of the universal reality?

Reggie
17-02-09, 18:54
What is the universal reality? Do you claim to hold knowledge of the universal reality?

Its relative. The civilian reality and the military reality are two seperate things and its only by experiencing both that you can form a 100% clear view on what those realities are like. As for a universal one that reconciles both, there isn't one and that's why people debate and argue, because they all see the world in their own way based on what they've lived through.
Its a big question but I think that answers it concisely.

As for me joining the military? I wouldn't rule it out but for now its definite no. I've had a good think and chat about it with certain people and I'm pretty sure of what I'm doing now.

Goose
17-02-09, 18:56
Your views are only based solely upon your opinion of reality. But what is reality? What is realistic and unrealistic? Perhaps your reality is military life.
My reality is civilian life. What is considered realistic by the one, shall be considered unrealistic or idealistic by the other. What is the universal reality? Do you claim to hold knowledge of the universal reality?

I never made that claim, your idealistic on life in the military is what i said, nothing more.

The military will drastically change your opinion on civilians, sitting on the outside, you can get a better look at what goes on from a different perspective.

spikejones
17-02-09, 19:00
This is what I was getting at Reggie. :tmb:

I personally take things not so verbatim as they are pointed out to me. I certainly consider them, but I do not feel beholden to accept one person's point of view as the only valid one. I formulate my own opinion on things based upon my own experiences.

I think it is quite safe to say that no one really has a view on life that is not idealistic on one way or another. But does not make their idealism more universally valid than another's. It merely makes it more valid to oneself and others like them.
I never made that claim, your idealistic on life in the military is what i said, nothing more.

The military will drastically change your opinion on civilians, sitting on the outside, you can get a better look at what goes on from a different perspective.
ahhh... but sitting on the outside of the military gives me a different perspective than what you see ;)

Goose
17-02-09, 19:10
ahhh... but sitting on the outside of the military gives me a different perspective than what you see ;)

I was a civilian to, long hair, college, wanting to be a guitar teacher.

spikejones
17-02-09, 19:12
but earlier you claimed as though you always felt apart from the rest of civilian life. Sounds to me like you said that feeling as though you were already outside of that world and not being accepted as a part of it was what drew you into joining the military. So it stands to my own reason that you did not truly have a perspective shared by the bulk of the civilian world.

Goose
17-02-09, 19:15
but earlier you claimed as though you always felt apart from the rest of civilian life. Sounds to me like you said that feeling as though you were already outside of that world and not being accepted as a part of it was what drew you into joining the military. So it stands to my own reason that you did not truly have a perspective shared by the bulk of the civilian world.

Theres a social group for everyone, musicians are easy to get on with if you know music theory and technique. If anything, i was further from the average recruit them most, being social is a big part of the military, i had a problem with that in civilian life. I shared the same perspective because i gathered it from the same sources.

spikejones
17-02-09, 19:17
I shared the same perspective because i gathered it from the same sources. of?

Goose
17-02-09, 19:22
of?

Of? The military?

spikejones
17-02-09, 19:50
you said you shared the same perspective because you gathered it from the same sources. I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

anyhow. I'm still not clear on what you consider the reality of life in the military.

do you consider it to be going out to battle?

At any rate, we both seem to have grown up pre-exposed to the military way of life. You have gone one way and I have gone the other. And to point out why I said that one should join the military to protect ones country and its way of life - that is the exact reason why my step father joined the marines. He WANTED to go out to battle and fight for his country. It was not out of some dissatisfaction with life or elsewise. He did not go that course though, he started out enlisted and did various grunt jobs as most enlistees do. Eventually he became a drill sergeant (and that job has carried over into the home in fact). Then he went to spawar for schooling on weather, and subsequently through OCS to become a WxO. Every person in the military plays an important role in service to this country. So whether you are on the battlefield risking your life, training new recruits, or studying a weather map - all people must perform efficiently and timely in order for the machine to function properly. The military machine functions quite well the way it is designed. Better than civilian workforce in my opinion.

It is just some of the purposes to which that machine is put, that I do not agree with.

edit: i seem to have mistakenly identified spawar as his school. oops. I forget that part. I need to ask him again. its been years.

Goose
17-02-09, 20:18
you said you shared the same perspective because you gathered it from the same sources. I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

anyhow. I'm still not clear on what you consider the reality of life in the military.
.

Everyone who joins has an idea of what its going to be like, and it never is.

I dont consider it to be going to battle, i consider it to be menial tasks done over and over again, whilst home sick and sexually frustrated for the most part. Its not in the adverts.

spikejones
17-02-09, 22:06
it never is in the propaganda. they draw you in with the good stuff like the GI Bill, signing bonuses, lies of getting to stay in a 5 star hotel while attending basic training, the glamor of exciting looking things like jumping out of a helicopter, blowing stuff up, fighting fictional dragons, and other stuff like that which appeals to video game players. The reality of it is much different than that.

look at this popular recruiting video for the army national guard:
BdT7njoka68
and this for the marines:
cPu9RhMIQdg
^that one took a while to dig up

Goose
18-02-09, 08:18
it never is in the propaganda. they draw you in with the good stuff like the GI Bill, signing bonuses, lies of getting to stay in a 5 star hotel while attending basic training, the glamor of exciting looking things like jumping out of a helicopter, blowing stuff up, fighting fictional dragons, and other stuff like that which appeals to video game players. The reality of it is much different than that.

Thats my point, your post on patriotism and defending your country is what those adverts try to put in your mind, but once your through the door its the last thing your thinking of.

NightWish
18-02-09, 10:36
To be frank I owuld love to know the truth behind everything... i have always wondered for so many things . and I just want to know them. but I jhve noticed poeple around me dont handle the truth. no matter what kin dit is. so i woul probably keep quiet

Alex_
18-02-09, 10:47
but I jhve noticed poeple around me dont handle the truth.

Same here.

I'd rather know the truth than stay blissfully ignorant. I mean, I can't be sure if it's difficult to handle if I don't know what it's about yet, and even if it is difficult, I don't care. It's still better than not knowing anything at all.

spikejones
18-02-09, 18:45
Thats my point, your post on patriotism and defending your country is what those adverts try to put in your mind, but once your through the door its the last thing your thinking of.
i see now where you gathered that idea of my post. fact is that I pay very minimal attention to advertisement. I don't buy things or do things simply because of an advertisement. I seek out better knowledge of something before committing to it. The military is not something to be taken lightly in my opinion, it is a decision that is best to be weighed appropriately before committing to. my post was not a result of propaganda, but rather from others who have gone into the field and their reasons. regardless. when you said that the reality of life in the military is doing menial tasks repetitively, this same thing happens even in civilian life. where I see a difference at is that (and at the risk of you saying I feed into propaganda yet again) is that by becoming a member of the armed forces, you are being a part of something bigger than yourself. It can be argued that the same condition exists in civilian life, but to not as great an extent as in the military.

Goose
18-02-09, 19:11
The military is not something to be taken lightly in my opinion

Taking it lightly is the only way to stay happy!


you are being a part of something bigger than yourself. It can be argued that the same condition exists in civilian life, but to not as great an extent as in the military.

Yea thats true, its a sub culture, an entirely different approach to doing things. Especially now we have the video game generation serving, when **** explodes its considered awesome.

spikejones
18-02-09, 19:29
well I meant the decision to join rather... but fair enough. taking anything you are currently living though in light can be a good thing. else wise you may stress yourself too much over simple stuff.

mike-d
21-02-09, 20:50
Ignorance is bliss. But knowledge is only good in moderate amounts...