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silver_wolf
24-02-09, 02:30
I have a question for all members who are not from America: how's universal health care working out for you? Does it eliminate high expenses, like hospital bills and health insurance? Or is it, as us Americans are led to believe, EVIL!!!!?

See, socialized health care is EVIL because socialism is one step closer to
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/cjvelg/horror-2.jpg

According to the media, all you non-Americans are slaving for a communist dictatorship who controls every aspect of your lives. According to U.S media,
the government can control where and when you get a job. If we start letting the gov't control our health care, who knows where it will stop? Soon we'll have to share beds with the homeless, our salary will be distributed with out neighbors, and our children won't get a good education.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/cjvelg/is-this-tomorrow-1.jpg
Sure, our police force, firemen, postal service and libraries are already socialized, but it's more important that everyone be able to rent a book than get decent medical care regardless of their financial situation, right? Paying thousands of dollars for any medical attention, along with an arm and a leg for (useless) health insurance is surely better than your barbaric SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE! It's the American way, and it's better. If we're not careful, we might end up with
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/cjvelg/cold_war_flag-1.jpg
THE UNITED SOVIET STATES OF AMERICA!!!
So I ask you, rest of the world, what would you say to someone who tells you it's better to have to put a price on your body and health, than to distribute the costs?

takamotosan
24-02-09, 02:53
Universal Health Care=higher taxes

higher taxes=unhappy americans

;)

Quasimodo
24-02-09, 02:56
I'm amused and a tad surprised that the American fear of communism persists to this day.

digitizedboy
24-02-09, 02:57
^ lol it still exists.

silver_wolf
24-02-09, 03:05
universal health care is what you have. it makes a bigger difference than you'd think, especially when you have to pay greedy corrupted insurance agencies who give their employees bonuses and consider it a positive when they can avoid giving you money.

Tihocan9
24-02-09, 03:06
Just for the sole reason I believe that it goes against what America is meant to stand for. Freedom. America was meant to have as little government involvement as possible and let people live freely and even face the consequences for the freedom.

madderakka
24-02-09, 03:08
There are logical arguments against it.

Government puts out bids on everything: lowest bidder gets the contract. Lowest bidder usually= cuts corners and does a half-assed job.

There would be salaries as opposed to doctors getting paid per patient. Salaries= no reason for doing a great job when an okay one will get you the same pay.

The doctors and nurses who try to take care of the patients are constantly hounded by admin for giving out two aspirin when one would have kind of done the job and saved 1/2 a cent. After being harrassed enough, they give in and settle for mediocrity.

They have clinics where you go in in the a.m. and sit around for hours and sometimes days until they can get to you. Imagine the ER, but for every time you needed an appointment.

They can't provide the best medications for everyone, so if you fall ill with, say, breast cancer, your name is put in a lottery with everyone else's and a few of you get the best medication and the rest are stuck with the mediocre stuff.

Psychological help is almost impossible to get, sometimes even if you have attempted suicide.

madderakka
24-02-09, 03:09
universal health care is what you have. it makes a bigger difference than you'd think, especially when you have to pay greedy corrupted insurance agencies who give their employees bonuses and consider it a positive when they can avoid giving you money.

Corporate greed has nothing on governmental greed and stupidity.

The_Underworld
24-02-09, 03:20
Universal health care may be good, but just like Americans, we have to wait a long time to see a doctor in hospitals. We too, have a shortage of doctors

patriots88888
24-02-09, 03:21
I'm amused and a tad surprised that the American fear of communism persists to this day.

Yup! In the 50's and 60's and even into the 80's people contemplated whether or not they could afford to build a bomb shelter to protect themselves and their loved ones from nuclear holocaust. Now it's the fear of government intervention on citizens freedoms and they contemplate if good health care is affordable to keep themselves and their loved ones alive if unfortunately anything should happen to them.

Kittypower
24-02-09, 03:31
We dont have universal health care, do we. This is what i get for only paying attention to Mrs.Clinton during the elections.

amiro1989
24-02-09, 03:56
We have Universal Health Care in Quebec, and we're not dead. We're not even near of being socialist.

:vlol:

SamReeves
24-02-09, 04:39
No Quebec is full socialist. :whi:

In any case, no, no, and no for America. BO and his guys will be there for one term if they shove it down our throats. Many people are mad as hell about the price tag of the stimulus, why the hell should they support an expensive, cost overrun healthcare system.

sandygrimm
24-02-09, 05:18
lol, we had better health care in the communist days than we do now. O_O
We have it good now, but not as good as back than.

Fallen.Angel
24-02-09, 07:02
IMO we need a better health care system. I can't stand paying 200 dollars just for one tooth being pulled. I hate it.

Punaxe
24-02-09, 10:41
We have universal health care, but not in the way that "the government controls the system". I think the only thing the government does, is force its citizens to have insurance, and force the insurance companies to at least cover certain basic needs. People who cannot afford it can get aid from the government. Insurance companies are mostly private organizations competing in the market, just as most of the hospitals, and people can choose where to go, so the quality does not suffer.

john_york
24-02-09, 10:57
Universal health care does not make me feel like the government is controlling any aspect of my life. (It's the constant 'terrorism!' scaremongering as an excuse to slowly erode my civil liberties that does that).

However, the NHS is currently facing massive hardship. Mainly due to an ever-aging population that require increasing levels of healthcare.

The solution, IMO, is a hybrid system - government-subsidised healthcare partly funded by health insurance on the part of the patient.

spikejones
24-02-09, 11:57
Universal Health Care=higher taxes

higher taxes=unhappy americans

;)
I may get flamed by many Americans, but me and my family at least have this in common in regards to taxes and healthcare:

1. there should be no "tax return" season. we should all pay a flat tax percentage with no loop holes for anyone. Regardless of how much you get paid, everyone pays for example 10% of their pay to the federal government. No returns. period. So if you're some corporate big head that makes 10 billion dollars a year, you pay 1 billion dollars to the government. You have no right to complain about that because you still have 9 billion dollars in your pocket. Or if you make $100,000 a year, you pay $10,000 to the government. I think the country would be in much better shape this way.

2. universal health care.. ABSOLUTELY!!! I don't see that as any bit evil. What IS evil is doctors who charge more than the hospital does. I tore my arm up on my bike and had a few visits to the hospital for it, so I could get staples in my arm, get the dressing changed, and get the staples removed. I was charged about $300 by the hospital for the visit itself + the supplies. The doctors charged me over $400.

interstellardave
24-02-09, 12:08
I work in Health Care for a major hospital system in Baltimore MD. To my knowledge we turn no-one away, and we write off tons of charity cases to prove it. No-one is left unattended on our watch...

The problem with health care in the US is COST. And that is directly attributable to Government interference. The programs already administered by the government are rife with waste and inefficiency. Add to that the fact that lawmakers have allowed the insurance companies and drug companies to practically control the industry and you have a situation where health care facilities operate on sliver-thin margins.

Government interference has made things worse in their attempt to "make sure everyone is covered" and "cared for". As usual they do it all wrong. Universal Health care would, logically, be administered in even worse fashion.

We need reform, not an entirely new system--much like our government itself, actually.

spikejones
24-02-09, 12:16
yeah... the hospital where I got treated was supposed to write my treatment of to charity because I wasn't working and couldn't pay the bill. it never happened. they hounded after me for the money instead. :rolleyes:

After I was able to land a job, it took over a year of paying 10 dollars here and 25 dollars there to be able to get it all paid off. even though I was making payments on it... they sent it to collections.

----

I don't think universal health care would be as bad as people envision it to be, but its a matter of implementing it in a way that would work well. someone mentioned something about medications being a lottery... I can see that if someone needed a continued medication treatment, they can have the prescription filled themselves. Not many medications are overly expensive and there are generic ones that are just as good - but don't have the "brand name" on the bottle. It's the active ingredients that do the job - not the name. We just need a better system to make the most expensive things (facility and doctor bills) more affordable for everyone. I personally cannot afford to have insurance for every thing in life. I put only insurance on my car because it is necessary in order to have a license. all the other insurances... I don't have, simply because I've never been paid enough to afford them. There's currently medicare and whatnot that gets pulled out of some people's checks, even though it is not for them - so it is a bit analogous to that.

Trigger_happy
24-02-09, 16:31
Here in the UK, the NHS isn't perfect, but it does its job splendidly. I know we have things like waiting list problems and the occasional bad job, but for a system that has to look after 52 million people, it does amazing. I don't get how you Americans get along without it.

Ward Dragon
24-02-09, 17:01
I heard Daschle describing his plans for health care and it essentially sounded like the government will perform a cost-benefit analysis about whether it's worth it to save each person's life, and if the government chooses to let a person die then a doctor could lose his license for treating that patient anyway. If Obama uses Daschle's plan, then I am sure he will not win a second election because there is no way the old people would block vote in his favor if his plan says they are too expensive to keep alive.

jackles
24-02-09, 17:06
Universal healthcare is the great thing for society.

I happen to have noticed that a lot of 'chat shows' like Sally Jesse Rapheal do features on problems that over here would be treated free on the nhs but in the states are not. That seems wrong to me. Why should a child with a deformity have to suffer because it would cost money their parents don't have to get fixed.

It is a benefit to the nation. We pay through national insurance. I am just thankful that we have it.

Joely-Moley
24-02-09, 17:18
Well, as someone who has lived in the US for 12 years and now lives in Scotland. I have to say that I think universal health care would be great!

The NHS do a good job, I know a lot of people complain about it, but I personally have never had a problem with the NHS.
My girlfriends Gran broke her leg and got surgery by a great surgeon and she had doctors looking after her, and the aftercare was brilliant. Her Gran is now receiving regular physiotherapy from the NHS so I’ve found the system here to be really good.

However in America when I needed emergency surgery it cost my parents a fortune because they didn’t have insurance because my dad had been made redundant and lost his healthcare.

I think I’m in the minority, but I would rather pay higher taxes and have if I needed surgery not worry about how I am going to pay for it.

Ward Dragon
24-02-09, 17:22
However in America when I needed emergency surgery it cost my parents a fortune because they didnít have insurance because my dad had been made redundant and lost his healthcare.

I thought Medicaid was supposed to cover situations like that :(

spikejones
24-02-09, 17:28
^ not sure the exact requirements for receiving Medicare/Medicaid, but it likely depends upon if the person is:

A) eligible
B) SIGNS UP FOR IT