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TRF
26-02-09, 13:43
Microsoft has some difficulty with gay people that are using the Xbox 360

In the game NARC: the characters are taking XTC, using LSD and blowing to make there character stonger. In Resident Evil 4 are players exposed to a dead body "pinched" to the wall with a pittvork. We are not telling you what we find in Grand Theft Auto IV: The lost and Damned, since that is to gross.
Apparently Microsoft has no problems with this.

But when Xbox owner Teresa placed "I'm a gay" on her profile, she got messages that she was sick, stupid and dirty. The people how wrote these messages, turned in her profile and the owners of Xbox-Live deleted her account. Even the users used the names as "xxxGayBoyxxx" and "Richard Gaywood" were deleted, because there usernames were "shocking".

Microsoft boss Stephen Toulouse let us know that he has "no commands" to this subject, but he did say that they are trying to find a way to express themselfs
---Taken from gay.nl--- <----Website is dutch
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/02/26/06/01/2468744_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/2468744_Naamloos4/)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg your pardon???
What other way could there be possibly be to express your feeling??

Is there going to be a small box, where you can select the type of person you are??? and then be in your profile in a small, almost NOT noticible way??

This is crazy and very insulting to Gay people (male or female).
If people are having a name like "Richard Gaywood", you get banned... What if this is his real name??? You get banned because of your lastname???


This is too much... SHAME ON YOU HARD: Microsoft...
This is a BAD and INSULTING company...

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 13:50
Cough up a link otherwise it's just hearsay.

interstellardave
26-02-09, 13:51
I'm sorry, but more information is needed (doesn't matter now 'cause this topic will explode anyway). There's no link to the source story, if it is a story, and no reason to automatically assume that people were banned for being gay.

These people may have made accounts with those names in order to make fun of gays. Or they may have been beligerant towards other users too. Or maybe MS doesn't want to deal with any statements of sexuality--regardless of orientation.

Who knows?

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 13:53
@Dave: Indeed. Perhaps these are people with prior offenses. We don't know all the details but go figure, this will most likely get blown way out of proportion.

thanatos
26-02-09, 13:53
SOURCE:http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=209280

I would be highly surprised if Microsoft actively banned the person because she said she was a lesbian. The people who reported her most likely used other excuses (the report system is fairly simplistic) and with a high enough number of reports in a short space of time she will have been automatically banned.

The people to blame are those that reported her, but for so many to actually go to the trouble of doing it she must of been antagonising them to some extent (who even reads the profiles when playing online games). She was most likely aggressively defensive whenever a (unfortunately common) gay slur was uttered.

_Tomb_Raider
26-02-09, 13:54
How can people act like that!!

TRF
26-02-09, 13:55
^^ That wasn't the website, but it was close...
It was taking from a gay website....

Check the first post (it's dutch though)... I just translated it...

M.A.
26-02-09, 14:00
I don't know about the other claims but the "Gaywood" drama saga is pretty well known. Just Google "xbox live gaywood" and you'll come up with links to news like these:

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=112065

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/22/xbox_gamertag/

http://www.xboxer.tv/2008/05/richard_gaywood_banned_from_xb_1.html

http://gaygamer.net/2008/05/xbox_live_gaywood_drama_update.html

"Gaywood" is actually a player's surename and it was banned. Wonder what happens with people that contains "dick" in their names. There goes "Moby Dick".... :mad:

TRF
26-02-09, 14:02
I don't know about the other claims but the "Gaywood" drama saga is pretty well known. Just Google "xbox live gaywood" and you'll come up with links to news like these:

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=112065

"Gaywood" is actually a player's surename and it was banned. Wonder what happens with people that contains "dick" in their names. There goes "Moby Dick".... :mad:


That is why this is absurt...

ShadyCroft
26-02-09, 14:02
^^...Or someone named Gayle...because that IS a name.

If that is true, that's really ridiculous. Whats next ? MSN ? Hotmail ? Facebook ?

So just because some people didn't like that she's a lesbian, they reported her and got banned immediately ? That's just plain ridiculous.

Ilie_Fusarau
26-02-09, 14:04
There goes "Moby Dick".... :mad:
:vlol:

interstellardave
26-02-09, 14:05
MS may have made a mistake for the reasons that thanatos said... they may have gotten a load of complaints all at one time about her. Obviously they can look deeper into it and, perhaps, change their complaint system to avoid abuses... hopefully they will because it seems there is room for mistakes.

Another issue, however, is one of common sense. MS can't monitor everything people say on their network; knowing that dumb-ass people will give her a hard time about it, why does she feel the need to put her orientation out there? If orientation shouldn't matter, then why must it be championed?!

This makes me think she likes the battle... and wants to make a point of it. Right or wrong, she brought a load of trouble onto herself needlessly.

Encore
26-02-09, 14:10
If orientation shouldn't matter, then why must it be championed?!


I've always found that phenomenon quite interesting...

ShadyCroft
26-02-09, 14:15
MS may have made a mistake for the reasons that thanatos said... they may have gotten a load of complaints all at one time about her. Obviously they can look deeper into it and, perhaps, change their complaint system to avoid abuses... hopefully they will because it seems there is room for mistakes.

That is possible, I gotta agree. Lets just hope that's the case and that it's solved.

irjudd
26-02-09, 14:39
Why'd you post this in two places? Hmm... well my reply taken from the other version of this thread:I find expressing your sexual orientation in a gaming service that children also participate in to be quite inappropriate. I don't care how proud you are of what you may like to shag. There's a time and place for everything.

Although yes, the surname thing was silly. But probably a robot flagged it by mistake.

Atlantisfreak666
26-02-09, 15:21
Microsoft obviously hate everyone.

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 15:23
Microsoft obviously hates everyone.

Care to elaborate on that lovely little generalization?

TRhalloween
26-02-09, 15:24
Why'd you post this in two places? Hmm... well my reply taken from the other version of this thread:

So a boy having a girlfriend would be OK but a boy having a boyfriend wouldn't? That's not too risqué.

Encore
26-02-09, 15:24
Microsoft obviously hates everyone.

Care to elaborate on that lovely little generalization?

lol... I'm kinda hoping that was sarcasm. :p


So a boy having a girlfriend would be OK but a boy having a boyfriend wouldn't? That's not too risqué.

How could you have possibly interpreted irjudd's post this way? All he's saying - and I agree - is that there's absolutely no need to post your sexual preferences on a gaming website - whatever those preferences are.

irjudd
26-02-09, 15:28
So a boy having a girlfriend would be OK but a boy having a boyfriend wouldn't? That's not too risqué.
I'm unsure about what part of my post hinted that I meant that... :confused:

But regardless, I don't really agree with discussing what you have a sexual attraction to on a gaming profile. Whatever that may be. Including boy/girl.

Woop Legend!
26-02-09, 15:28
Why'd you post this in two places? Hmm... well my reply taken from the other version of this thread:

Well, I don't believe children should be raised ignorant to homosexuals at all. That implies it is something shameful to be honest.

Atlantisfreak666
26-02-09, 15:33
Care to elaborate on that lovely little generalization?

Yes, they only like X-box 360 players.
Oh, and the boss of Microsoft is actually the Devil!

TRhalloween
26-02-09, 15:34
Yes, they only like X-box 360 players.
Oh, and the boss of Microsoft is actually the Devil!

But not gay X-box 360 players.

Atlantisfreak666
26-02-09, 15:35
But not gay X-box 360 players.

Yeah.
Poor gays.
:(

Encore
26-02-09, 15:37
Well, I don't believe children should be raised ignorant to homosexuals at all. That implies it is something shameful to be honest.

If you think children shouldn't be exposed to sexual content at an excessively early age, then I don't see how hommosexuality should be any diferent.

spikejones
26-02-09, 15:52
Why'd you post this in two places? Hmm... well my reply taken from the other version of this thread:
lol... I just got taken aback by that myself :vlol:
(I think it is most like to incite a better conversation in the other section - rather than a flaming of this and that or menial jokes as usually happens in this section)
and mine:

*wonders if he would get banned for the name "Criminal" "Theif" "CrackHead" or any mention of any sorts in my profile....*


think the bottom line is that some parents may not want their kids educated on the subject until later on down the road


lets see here....
from an early age, I was always made fun of an called a fag or gay (even though I am NOT) for a couple different reasons:
1. I never had a girlfriend to speak of (but neither did I have a boyfriend) - I was a shy person and so was not great with the ladies. Even if I had asked a girl to dance ... true story:
guy 1: "maybe he isnt gay, he just asked Brandy to the dance"
guy 2: "no, that's just what he WANTS us to think!!"
whole class: "bwahahaha!! queer!!"

2. I'm duck footed, so when I walk it looks like I have a stick up my ass. Need I say more? Just because I am different, the kids called me gay. and this wasn't just in High School or Middle School, this was in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL damnit!!!

People get "educated on the subject" from an early age, just from watching TV.

Not only was I needlessly called a faggot, I was also called a crackbaby because I was short - and yes, this was in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

Seems kids are getting educated on many subjects at any early age, before the advent of myspace, facebook, MMO gaming, or the internet even - would you not agree?


At any rate, I think that sort of thing should be left to myspace or facebook. [IMG]http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


and this is any different how??
the purpose of any social network - be it a tomb raider forums, myspace, PSN, or X-Box live, is to bring people from around the world, with many different interests, together. someone putting "I'm Gay" on their gamer profile is not harmful in anyway. What do you think is gonna happen? Their character is going to butt rape your character? That word is gonna turn YOU gay against your wishes? Its a bunch of intolerance is what it is! Microsoft is a company based in American soil, where we have freedom of speech - and discrimination on gender and sexual orientation is illegal. This may well be an unconstitutional motion on the part of M$.


and on the topic of peoples actual names, I know a lady who's name is "Gay Stevens" - I **** you not ;)

Tonyrobinson
26-02-09, 15:55
Some people just make me sick. All this racism in the world which should be obolished!

Atlantisfreak666
26-02-09, 15:57
Some people just make me sick. All this racism in the world which should be obolished!

Totally.

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 16:03
lol... I'm kinda hoping that was sarcasm. :p


Keep hoping. :p


Yes, they only like X-box 360 players.
Oh, and the boss of Microsoft is actually the Devil!

A. It's a business, of course they're only going to care about their own customers. If they cared about PS3 customers, they'd be out of business. Additionally, they have a right to protect their company from lawsuits which I hate to say, happens far too often and for frivolous reasons.

B. :rolleyes:

As I stated in the MGC version, assuming there's a terms and agreement section when one first signs on to the service, there more than likely a section in the fine print that states that the customer will not hold MS liable for any thing that is posted on the service and they agree to allow MS the right to remove any comments or user names that are deemed to be offensive. If there is something in there to that effect, then everyone should quit their complaining. You sign into an agreement like that without reading the terms, then it's your own damn fault.

Now on a broader scale, even MS isn't dumb enough to allow them to be open to a potential discrimination lawsuit. Like I said, it's a lawsuit trigger happy world and if a company wants to survive, they need to cover their legal butts.

spikejones
26-02-09, 16:14
^ you present a valid point about the contract, but being as I have not been a member of that - i wonder if you actually get to see that contract prior to giving them your money?

also... things have in the past been overturned and deemed to be unconstitutional.

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 16:15
Yea, if pushed high enough. Though it doesn't pardon stupidity or a lack of common sense for not reading the document prior to agreeing to it.

spikejones
26-02-09, 16:19
not reading the document prior to agreeing to it.
sometimes though - and with a lot of digital contracts like software EULA's - a person does not get to read the "contract" until it has already been paid for in a non-refundable manner. So it ends up being:

A) click no and waste your money
B) click accept without reading because you don't want to have wasted your money

toxicraider
26-02-09, 16:21
http://www.rpgsite.net/news/305.html

Xbox Live Bans Straights as well as Gays
Posted on February 26, 2009 by Alex Donaldson

A story surfaced yesterday about how a Lesbian Xbox 360 Gamer got banned from Xbox Live for listing herself as being Lesbian in her profile.

As always with controversial issues, fans jumped in and issues got heated as people debated if Microsoft and the Xbox Live service were discriminating against homosexuals.

Thank god for the industrious people of NeoGAF, who decided to put the whole issue to the test. One member added a simple statement to the end of his Xbox Live Bio - simply stating "Heterosexual." The people of the forum then reported him.

Several hours later he recieved notification of a 24 hour ban from Xbox Live and the removal of the 'inappropriate content' from his profile.

Check out the original post and discussion thread over on NeoGAF.

So there you have it - Xbox Live bans gays and straights. That rules out discrimination - but is it still wrong? We'll leave that one up to you.

It's not just gays, so I wouldn't take it as discriminative.

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 16:22
sometimes though - and with a lot of digital contracts like software EULA's - a person does not get to read the "contract" until it has already been paid for in a non-refundable manner. So it ends up being:

A) click no and waste your money
B) click accept without reading because you don't want to have wasted your money

In that regard, I agree, it's a shady practice and one I would definitely fight, though most sites have their terms and conditions posted openly. As we both said, since neither of us are subscribers to the service in question, the best we can give is an educated guess.

@Toxic: As I said earlier, their covering their asses. Better to play it safe than sorry.

Punaxe
26-02-09, 16:24
http://www.rpgsite.net/news/305.html


It's not just gays, so I wouldn't take it as discriminative.

Seems like Microsoft agrees the members here suggesting sexual preferene has no place on a gaming profile.

EDIT: Crossposting...

I think what MS may be trying to do on Xbox Live, is prevent attacks against homosexuals people, and the only way they can do that is by simply not allowing people to publish their sexuality. As the news article itself states, the notion of that on her profile got her plenty of harassment.

Also, usually certain words are just not allowed in nicknames. Even if there are instances where dick and gay for example would be used in a real name, you can bet that people will use it to offend if it was allowed.

So, by disallowing certain nicknames and certain phrases on profiles, MS may be trying to prevent all this hatred from happening on their network.

Zebra
26-02-09, 16:28
http://www.rpgsite.net/news/305.html


It's not just gays, so I wouldn't take it as discriminative.

Ah. Okay. Than that's something different.

Mr.Burns
26-02-09, 16:29
Regardless of your feelings towards MS, folks, please refrain from name calling. If you have nothing contributory to this thread, don't post.

toxicraider
26-02-09, 16:35
Seems like Microsoft agrees the members here suggesting sexual preferene has no place on a gaming profile.

EDIT: Crossposting...

Exactly, or they just didn't want to be blamed if the member received any homophobic remarks.

@Toxic: As I said earlier, their covering their asses. Better to play it safe than sorry.
Yeah, it's hard to tell if they'd ban them like that before the whole incident.

Edit;
They have Sexual Attraction listed on people's gamer profiles?

Mr.Bouncer
26-02-09, 16:52
Look ... ur right abt wat you said and i know microsoft aren't good nor nice to people but this is a gaming platform and network what does your orientation have to do with it ?! why keep expressing these things, I mean i don't wanna be mean nor I'm homophobic but who cares really if you are gay or not ? beside this network has children too and many parents doesn't like their sons or daughters to be exposed to such names and titles and then ask who what where why and what does this mean ... and even if u exclude children then it's just pointless to go out in the streets in prides or going on gaming networks to express this side of you ... and someone's orientation is something between oneself and his/her partner in bed or while they're together and there's no place for it elsewhere ... got what i mean ? ;)

spikejones
26-02-09, 17:00
I'll cross post this here as well in regards to the issue with the RPG site's article:

the first "ban" was initiated by the intolerant heterosexuals who flamed and reported the lesbian. this enraged the gay community who wanted equal treatment.. as such, they reported the guy who wrote "heterosexual" on his profile. that, or it was a group of people, regardless of orientation, with their heads on straight and wanted to make a statement about if you ban "lesbian, gay, or homo" that you need to ban "straight or hetero".

I don't see people going around acting as the police for M$ and lashing out because something is simply "against policy". They do it because they are offended by it.

beyond that though, as it seems to have missed many eyes:

I beseech you to look for how many profiles you can find that look like this:


Gender: Male
Interests: Women, women, and more women!!

it doesn't say "straight" or "heterosexual" verbatim, but it most certainly implies that - and I bet this is most certainly allowed. ;)

interstellardave
26-02-09, 17:04
MS policy did not change over night. The heterosexual guy would have been banned 2 weeks prior--I'd bet all I own on that. If someone complains and a "targeted word" deemed "inflammatory" is present that likely kicks in the auto-ban.

spikejones
26-02-09, 17:08
personally... I don't really care about profiles to begin with. its just another frilly little useless thing. if people didn't look at them in the first place - they couldn't get offended.

Lenochka
26-02-09, 17:50
Oh no, its a total conspiracy :p

Seriously xD people are being so over dramatic about this. I am sure there is more to this then what we have been told.

Jo269976
26-02-09, 20:02
It's like Youtube, someone will flag it and they'll ban without even looking or caring :rolleyes:

Lee croft
26-02-09, 20:18
this is riduclous!!!! its like the 21st centrey microsoft back you *****'s!!! if you dont like how people are then tuff ****!!!

girl+girl
boy+boy
boy +girl

it dont matter who you fancy! you shouldnt block people because they are proud of who they are!!!

scion05
26-02-09, 20:23
I don't see why anybody needs to state their sexuality on their username anyway, it's pathetic :rolleyes:

ShadyCroft
26-02-09, 20:26
^^ I agree.

As a whole picture, sexual orientation just doesn't matter and unnecessary to display around anywhere (even on a network accessed by youngsters).

I think the case that once its known someone is gay and hate mails start coming is the problem here. :)

Mad Tony
26-02-09, 20:40
I don't see why anybody needs to state their sexuality on their username anyway, it's pathetic :rolleyes:Yeah. It annoys me when people (both gay and straight) go around parading their sexuality everywhere. What's the point?

viper456
26-02-09, 20:46
I think I will post my reply in here too, to get people's opinions on my theories maybe :p?

I'm sure there are tons of reasons why stating sexual orientation on Xbox Live may be deemed as inappropriate. Firstly its a sexual orientation and children play online (they are the squeaky voiced ones who shout a lot :p) and it doesn't really matter what ever it states be it gay straight bi whatever...its a sexual orientation and it can sometimes be bad including minors in this sort of topic...there are some scary people out there after all!

Plus its quick to assume that MS hate gays or whatever. As people have been saying the word "gay" is used as an insult to many people ( I fail to see how it is myself) but it could be a way of protection its users from abuse. Who's to say that a user isn't intending on offending people with an abuse user name such as "Death2AllGays" or something? They can't be expected to go through ever single user name and pick out the ones that are offensive like that...so they ban the word "gay" simple.

Either that or they are a bunch of raving homophobes! Who knows. I don't work for them :p.

Jo269976
26-02-09, 20:48
As people have been saying the word "gay" is used as an insult to many people ( I fail to see how it is myself) .

Exactly, it's like saying you have blonde hair or green eyes. :rolleyes:

ShadyCroft
26-02-09, 20:50
but it could be a way of protection its users from abuse. Who's to say that a user isn't intending on offending people with an abuse user name such as "Death2AllGays" or something?....so they ban the word "gay" simple.

A very valid point, Tom. :tmb:

amiro1989
26-02-09, 20:54
A very valid point, Tom. :tmb:

That's what I thought too.

Microsoft backed the gay marriage back in November 2008, didn't they? Just like Google, and every other big company out there.

TRfan23
26-02-09, 21:11
This is ridiculous, Microsoft are a great company. They wouldn't just ban gays like that, I agree that it was in case of verbal abuse as other members have said.

If they didn't like gays, they'd probably scan every computer IP and get our home location, ask if we're gay. Then ban computers from us all. Same for Xboxers.

As people have been saying the word "gay" is used as an insult to many people ( I fail to see how it is myself)

I don't see how it's offensive online to use the word gay, not an insult to me. Mainly I thought it was only the way people would call you it, via voice.

da tomb raider!
26-02-09, 21:42
Get a Dreamcast and you won't have these problems.

MiCkiZ88
26-02-09, 21:45
Aahh.. our society. Isn't it just lovely? :) Gay = bad, Straight = Good.

Just a simple trick to get more labor force and please the religious bunch. Being brainwashed from birth. Children are fed with stereotypes of married couples through cartoons and God forbid if actually some gay couple would be ''normal'' in some tv serie or cartoon. No. They are almost always stereotypical overly slutty types of gays. Something to laugh at.

It's so offensive to actually say something about sexuality..

I'm not proud of my sexuality. What's there to be proud off? It's my private life who I fancy. None of your business. And I don't like gay prides myself. I actually loathe them. We got our rights, now do you need to shove it down others throats and make yourself seem like some slut?

''But we have our rights to fight for better rights.. blah blah blah''
What more do you want? World domination? Grow up.. not going to happen. Just be happy with what you have and be glad you're accepted if you are. If not, how the hell do you think you can get accepted by being screaming gay? If you actually acted ''normal'' you would get far more acceptance than being the way you are now.

Just my two cents. Like it or dislike it, I dont care. I'm just tired of the constant arguments about ''gay rights''

spikejones
26-02-09, 21:56
just to bring to light for those of you who have not had access to the MGC version:

and the answer is made clear now. under section 5 of the X-Box live Terms of Use as listed here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/liveTOU.htm


In addition, your use of the Service is subject to your compliance with the Code of Conduct (www.xbox.com/en-us/live/codeofconduct.htm (http://www.xbox.com/en-us/live/codeofconduct.htm) and its successors). You agree that we may also discontinue your access to the Service if you do any of the following while connected to the Service:
......
Create a Gamertag , avatar or use text in other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate or relate to any of the following: profane words/phrases, topics or content of a sexual nature, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities;
......
sexual orientation is obviously of "sexual nature" ;)

but those who harassed her should have been banned as well according to

Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others;
case closed..

Thorir
26-02-09, 22:09
Why are people caring so much about the SEXualtity?
What about the love?
Homophilia. (same-love)
I don't call myself homosexual.
Sex is a small part of my personality.

A lesbian is a girl who likes girls.
There is no sex implied in that word at all.
No sex, no philia (love).
Nor is gay, which means happy.

Punaxe
26-02-09, 22:15
A lesbian is "a woman who is a homosexual", and "homophile" and "homosexual" are pretty much synonymous. I don't see why using different words would make any difference, they clearly all still mean the same thing.

Aahh.. our society. Isn't it just lovely? :) Gay = bad, Straight = Good.

Just a simple trick to get more labor force and please the religious bunch. Being brainwashed from birth. Children are fed with stereotypes of married couples through cartoons and God forbid if actually some gay couple would be ''normal'' in some tv serie or cartoon. No. They are almost always stereotypical overly slutty types of gays. Something to laugh at.

It's so offensive to actually say something about sexuality..

I'm not proud of my sexuality. What's there to be proud off? It's my private life who I fancy. None of your business. And I don't like gay prides myself. I actually loathe them. We got our rights, now do you need to shove it down others throats and make yourself seem like some slut?

''But we have our rights to fight for better rights.. blah blah blah''
What more do you want? World domination? Grow up.. not going to happen. Just be happy with what you have and be glad you're accepted if you are. If not, how the hell do you think you can get accepted by being screaming gay? If you actually acted ''normal'' you would get far more acceptance than being the way you are now.

Just my two cents. Like it or dislike it, I dont care. I'm just tired of the constant arguments about ''gay rights''

I don't see how this was really relevant to this thread... No wonder you get tired :ton:

Thorir
26-02-09, 22:18
So a eight year old who don't know what a lesbian is will be upset because it is related to SEX?

Punaxe
26-02-09, 22:20
So a eight year old who don't know what a lesbian is will be upset because it is related to SEX?

The policy spikejones quoted above doesn't say anything about upsetting anyone, it's about avoiding the possibility of offending.

Parents not wanting their children to know about (any!) sexuality up till a certain age, and why, is quite another topic.

MiCkiZ88
26-02-09, 22:24
I don't see how this was really relevant to this thread... No wonder you get tired :ton:Gays. Stereotypes. Society. ''Shocking''. Kids safety.. just my responce to that.

TRhalloween
26-02-09, 22:33
Gays. Stereotypes. Society. ''Shocking''. Kids safety.. just my responce to that.

But you went on to talk about people being proud of being gay and having screaming parades.
I can't talk since I like go a bit of topic and have little rants on occasion.
I agree with you, by the way :tmb:

Thorir
26-02-09, 22:41
The policy spikejones quoted above doesn't say anything about upsetting anyone, it's about avoiding the possibility of offending.

Parents not wanting their children to know about (any!) sexuality up till a certain age, and why, is quite another topic.

...Then they shouldn't allow their kids on the internet. Simple as that. Let alone playing violent games.

I don't know about America, but even children in kindergarden in Norway know what a homophile is. Homosexual, perhaps not, as we don't use that word. But they know what a lesbian is. And if the children are offended by it, it is the parents fault.
Things ARE different in America though, I know.

silver_wolf
26-02-09, 22:42
I think the profile was deleted to avoid further controversy, not because of prejudice.

Thorir
26-02-09, 22:43
Would a profile that said "I like girls!" cause ban?

Punaxe
26-02-09, 22:45
I don't think the problem is that people get offended by other people being homosexual, the problem is people being able to offend homosexuals. That's probably the reason it's not allowed, but other than that, sure, the fact that people would want to offend them in the first place may be the offenders' parents' fault...

MiCkiZ88
26-02-09, 22:46
But you went on to talk about people being proud of being gay and having screaming parades.
I can't talk since I like go a bit of topic and have little rants on occasion.
I agree with you, by the way :tmb:I actually copied the responce from mature chat, since someone mentioned about shoving your sexuality down others throats, but.. blegh.. I get carried away easily. :p

spikejones
26-02-09, 23:06
...Then they shouldn't allow their kids on the internet. Simple as that. Let alone playing violent games.

I don't know about America, but even children in kindergarden in Norway know what a homophile is.
you have a point about the games... they have a rating on them clearly - but potentially the majority of parents who allow their kids to play violent games have a laissez-faire approach to all things "mature".

about the word "homophile", I will be perfectly honest in saying that you are the first person I have EVER heard use that word, I will also go so far as to say I have never once before heard a homosexual (or gay person - what have you) defend their sexuality as more than just being about sex. I am a straight man and can honestly and maturely say that there are men who I love and care about, but that does not make me gay or a homosexual. I have no desire to get in bed with these men - I am not attracted to them in that manner.

but sure.. the word homophile is a valid word - using the latin affixes for "same" and "love" - but that word wasn't used there was it?

IceColdLaraCroft
26-02-09, 23:09
:confused:

But we're gay. We use apple & PS3 anyway :p


Microsoft has some difficulty with gay people that are using the Xbox 360

In the game NARC: the characters are taking XTC, using LSD and blowing to make there character stonger. In Resident Evil 4 are players exposed to a dead body "pinched" to the wall with a pittvork. We are not telling you what we find in Grand Theft Auto IV: The lost and Damned, since that is to gross.
Apparently Microsoft has no problems with this.

But when Xbox owner Teresa placed "I'm a gay" on her profile, she got messages that she was sick, stupid and dirty. The people how wrote these messages, turned in her profile and the owners of Xbox-Live deleted her account. Even the users used the names as "xxxGayBoyxxx" and "Richard Gaywood" were deleted, because there usernames were "shocking".

Microsoft boss Stephen Toulouse let us know that he has "no commands" to this subject, but he did say that they are trying to find a way to express themselfs
---Taken from gay.nl--- <----Website is dutch
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/02/26/06/01/2468744_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/2468744_Naamloos4/)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg your pardon???
What other way could there be possibly be to express your feeling??

Is there going to be a small box, where you can select the type of person you are??? and then be in your profile in a small, almost NOT noticible way??

This is crazy and very insulting to Gay people (male or female).
If people are having a name like "Richard Gaywood", you get banned... What if this is his real name??? You get banned because of your lastname???


This is too much... SHAME ON YOU HARD: Microsoft...
This is a BAD and INSULTING company...

Thorir
26-02-09, 23:14
There are women I love too, but that doesn't make me heterophile/heterosexual.
I know the word homophile isn't much used in English. But it is in Norwegian. There is a BIG difference between homophile and homosexual. They are the same thing, granted. But you would never adress for instance a celebrity as homosexual. You would call them homophile A man who loves a man. Or a woman who loves a women. SEX is not a part of the description. Grown up people can decide themselves what female celeb does with her female lover. They don't have to call it LESBIAN SEX!!!

Homosexuality was also a mental illness in the seventies. They decided to call it homophilia after that.
Homosexuality was regarded an illness, and is therefor not used even today.
Homophilia describes it better anyway. Same-Love.

silver_wolf
26-02-09, 23:24
Would a profile that said "I like girls!" cause ban?
probably not.

spikejones
26-02-09, 23:25
^but not all homo-whatevers are in it for love, just like not all hetero-whatevers are in it for love. a great deal of it is just sex. for you it may be different than for another person - but the homo-whatevers that I have known in the past (and there have been multitudes) are not the passionate lovers who embrace and kiss and dance in the moonlight. nay... they are simply shaggers of the same sex. I can't honestly say I have seen a homo-whatever couple that was like a husband and wife. Heck... listening to these guys talk about the last guy they "banged like a screen door in a hurricane" is enough to convince me that they arent in it for love. Love was never mentioned in any bit of it actually.

MadCroy101
26-02-09, 23:29
That is really cruel, I can't beileve a company can do this!

TRhalloween
26-02-09, 23:34
^but not all homo-whatevers are in it for love, just like not all hetero-whatevers are in it for love. a great deal of it is just sex. for you it may be different than for another person - but the homo-whatevers that I have known in the past (and there have been multitudes) are not the passionate lovers who embrace and kiss and dance in the moonlight. nay... they are simply shaggers of the same sex. I can't honestly say I have seen a homo-whatever couple that was like a husband and wife. Heck... listening to these guys talk about the last guy they "banged like a screen door in a hurricane" is enough to convince me that they arent in it for love. Love was never mentioned in any bit of it actually.

I think what you're trying to say is that all gay people are just in it for sex.

You hear a lot of guys talking about having sex with girls.

IceColdLaraCroft
26-02-09, 23:40
Guys are guys regardless of who they are attracted to.

Straight guys talk about sex with girls. Gay guys talk about sex with other guys in the same "one track" way of mind. It doesn't mean that they think/have more sex than straight guys or that they aren't "in it for love"

I've never read/heard the term homophile, but if it's anything like "Anglophile" (someone that likes British culture) then its different than Homosexual.

spikejones
26-02-09, 23:50
I think what you're trying to say is that all gay people are just in it for sex.

You hear a lot of guys talking about having sex with girls.
you picked out the wrong part - or merely only the part you wanted to see. I said that for him it may be different than for other people, this means it is not cut and dry - just that the mass majority (aka not all, but nearly) of gay people I know, never talk about love when it comes to men. I know a lot of straight guys on the other hand who talk more about love and less about sex.

IceColdLaraCroft is right about the word though - it is in fact a totally different word. you can't class homophile and homosexual as being one and the same all inclusive term. one is most certainly capable of same love without being a same sex doer.

I'm not trying to bash anyone's sexuality here though - just pointing out that sexuality and love are by no means 100% hand in hand.

TRhalloween
27-02-09, 00:08
you picked out the wrong part - or merely only the part you wanted to see. I said that for him it may be different than for other people, this means it is not cut and dry - just that the mass majority (aka not all, but nearly) of gay people I know, never talk about love when it comes to men. I know a lot of straight guys on the other hand who talk more about love and less about sex.

I'm not trying to bash anyone's sexuality here though - just pointing out that sexuality and love are by no means 100% hand in hand.

"Man, I'd like to have a commitment with her!:mis:"

Punaxe
27-02-09, 00:13
There are women I love too, but that doesn't make me heterophile/heterosexual.
I know the word homophile isn't much used in English. But it is in Norwegian. There is a BIG difference between homophile and homosexual. They are the same thing, granted. But you would never adress for instance a celebrity as homosexual. You would call them homophile A man who loves a man. Or a woman who loves a women. SEX is not a part of the description. Grown up people can decide themselves what female celeb does with her female lover. They don't have to call it LESBIAN SEX!!!

Homosexuality was also a mental illness in the seventies. They decided to call it homophilia after that.
Homosexuality was regarded an illness, and is therefor not used even today.
Homophilia describes it better anyway. Same-Love.

I think you're using the wrong definition for the 'sex' part. It is not about the act of making love, it is about the sexes, as in male and female. Homophilia? Same love? Same love as what? Homosexophilia seems to be what you're after. :p

Indeed, SEX is not part of the description. GENDER is.

spikejones
27-02-09, 00:23
"Man, I'd like to have a commitment with her!:mis:"
not sure your age, so I am tempted to chalk that up to the sarcasm of a kid who's not had serious discussions about relationships with other men.

you'd never hear anything like that come up in those words.

what you will hear is:
anticipation about marriage; how your heart was broken by the woman you loved when she left you for another man; how you want to do something really special for someone - but you aren't sure what you should do, or if they will like it; you may be frustrated by not having enough money to buy that thing you really want them to have; you and your lover had an argument, (s)he kicked you out of the house - and now you feel terrible about it - but you don't know if (s)he will take you back; your heart is broken by that girl/boy who you caught eyes with - but never had the guts to ask out; you got rejected by the girl/boy of your dreams after a long standing relationship as best friends - she/he just got involved with someone after you finally realized that the love you have been looking for this whole time was right in front of you, and your whole life seems at an end.

My intent is NOT to say that a man who loves to have sex with other men, or a woman who loves to have sex with other women - are totally devoid of these emotions. It just doesn't seem very apparent in any of the conversations I've had with any of them. And my best friend (as well as my neighbor) where I just moved from, were both gay men. Those types of conversations never happened.

as to whether gay and lesbian are sex related terms... they are to me. - but I'm not offended by them.
I know that technically "gay" means "happy" - but in the context of describing a human being it has become an adjective to describe their sexual orientation.

TRhalloween
27-02-09, 00:35
not sure your age, so I am tempted to chalk that up to the sarcasm of a kid who's not had serious discussions about relationships with other men.
I'm trying not to take the discussion too seriously. Not going down well.

you'd never hear anything like that come up in those words.

what you will hear is:
anticipation about marriage; how your heart was broken by the woman you loved when she left you for another man; how you want to do something really special for someone - but you aren't sure what you should do, or if they will like it; you may be frustrated by not having enough money to buy that thing you really want them to have; you and your lover had an argument, (s)he kicked you out of the house - and now you feel terrible about it - but you don't know if (s)he will take you back; your heart is broken by that girl/boy who you caught eyes with - but never had the guts to ask out; you got rejected by the girl/boy of your dreams after a long standing relationship as best friends - she/he just got involved with someone after you finally realized that the love you have been looking for this whole time was right in front of you, and your whole life seems at an end.

I'm not saying a homosexual person isn't capable of those emotions, because I've seen it in some, but the ratios seem a bit offset when you look at it overall.


What ratio? The people that you know?I don't want to go out and meet loads of different guys.
I don't know anyone who has had that kind of history. Most people meet someone they like, stay with them/break up.

spikejones
27-02-09, 00:39
^ i edited my post to make it more clear ( I hope ).

as for the body of the post, and the different scenarios - a lot of that has happened to me, and a lot of it has happened to people I know. They have all come up in conversations before. I don't know if all of them have happened to a single person though. But certainly they have all happened.

IceColdLaraCroft
27-02-09, 00:42
sometimes you just need to walk away from an arguement.

AmericanAssassin
27-02-09, 00:43
Stuff like this really bothers me. If the person wants to state their sexuality -- scream it out to the world even -- they should be able to do so. Period. I don't give a **** about the people that it makes uncomfortable. The gay and lesbian community should not have to hide who they are. To hell with those who can't handle it. I'm not gay myself, but I have several friends (and an ex) who ended up being gay. I know, from what they say, that it's not a choice. They were born gay, and anybody who disagrees with that is just plain wrong. Why would somebody choose to be hated by a large portion of the world? They wouldn't, and they didn't. Microsoft is being ridiculous. It's not like they described sexual positions on their message. They should not have been able to discriminate in that manor. This is complete bull****. :mad:

TRhalloween
27-02-09, 00:43
as to whether gay and lesbian are sex related terms... they are to me. - but I'm not offended by them.
I know that technically "gay" means "happy" - but in the context of describing a human being it has become an adjective to describe their sexual orientation.

I think "gay" comes from "gai" meaning promiscuous. That's what I've heard, but it's probably not true.

Andariel
27-02-09, 00:44
I don't think anyone has much room to be talking about a sexuality that they aren't. Leave it to the individuals instead of spreading the judgments and generalizations you have in your own heads. Only an individual knows what they're talking about when it's pertaining to them self.

spikejones
27-02-09, 00:53
I'll talk about straight sex, drugs, and crime then - since that is what I know. and show that sex and love are not the same. take a look at crack whores - they don't love the men they are sleeping around with. they do it for money and drugs.

lets discount that then since its not "real sex"
how about a one night stand? do the people who engage in those escapades love each other? no...

but these can be men or women doing it both ways in actuality. I hear ya fighting for the right to get married - more power to you I say.

and I just want to say to you Thorir:
no hard feelings, seriously. You have every right to love who you do, and sleep with who you do. It is who you are. I only wanted to point out because it seemed like you were making a blanket statement that homosexuality overall was more than just sex, where I failed to see that. I just wish that you were able to shed some light on that, and I ended up carrying this conversation on with other people instead of with you. So please, if you can enlighten me - feel free to do so. I may be missing something.

Carbonek_0051
27-02-09, 00:56
Why is everyone trippin about this? Really, big whoop they don't allow "god" in profiles or names.:rolleyes:

It is like no big deal, I am gay but am in no way offended. Why the hell would someone put that in their profile or name? It's just asking for trouble if you ask me.:whi:

I don't see why people turn this into some big conspiracy.:ton:

Lenochka
27-02-09, 00:59
Why is everyone trippin about this? Really, big whoop they don't allow "god" in profiles or names.:rolleyes:

It is like no big deal, I am gay but am in no way offended. Why the hell would someone put that in their profile or name? It's just asking for trouble if you ask me.:whi:

I don't see why people turn this into some big conspiracy.:ton:

Exactly
I mean, its not wrong to be gay and proud... but putting it in random area's like that is just kind of asking for trouble knowing how that is a rather sensitive issue still in some places.

Mr.Burns
27-02-09, 01:23
Stuff like this really bothers me. If the person wants to state their sexuality -- scream it out to the world even -- they should be able to do so. Period. I don't give a **** about the people that it makes uncomfortable. The gay and lesbian community should not have to hide who they are. To hell with those who can't handle it. I'm not gay myself, but I have several friends (and an ex) who ended up being gay. I know, from what they say, that it's not a choice. They were born gay, and anybody who disagrees with that is just plain wrong. Why would somebody choose to be hated by a large portion of the world? They wouldn't, and they didn't. Microsoft is being ridiculous. It's not like they described sexual positions on their message. They should not have been able to discriminate in that manor. This is complete bull****. :mad:

Okay AA, let's try this out.

You own a large game business. It's very profitable and you offer an online service for people to enjoy your games. Now since you should be very aware by now that anyone will sue you for anything remotely inflammatory or offensive, you want to protect yourself. What do you do? Well, you decide to set up a series of guidelines and terms to ensure that your subscribers will behave in a mature manner as well as protect you from any potential lawsuits or other legal action. Given how calling someone a fag might be insulting to one but not another, you realize that if you start removing or banning members for making derogatory remarks about homosexuals but allowing similar talk from heteros, you'll be setting up a double standard and by which, a means to be sued. So, what do you do? Do you let people say what they want on YOUR service run by YOUR company and thereby put YOUR company's reputation and possible financial future on the line, or do you take an aggressive stance and not allow any such material to be posted?

Microsoft is doing this to ensure their asses are legally covered. When you agree to the terms and agreements (that big load of fine print), you're putting yourself into a legally binding agreement. So if you violate their terms (that you agreed to), they are well within their rights to enforce the rules that YOU agreed to.

This isn't discrimination, it's protecting one's self and the company they work for.

MattTR
27-02-09, 01:48
That's just sad.. the word 'gay' used to mean nothing but happy and fun, but now today's society claims to classify it as bad and offensive..

How can people be themselves with all this censoring and banning? It's RIDICULOUS! it would be no different then blocking out the words white, black, ect.. I am furious with Microsoft.. :mad:

If people want it in their name and they want to express it, it's their choice, why stop them from doing so? It expresses who they are!

Quasimodo
27-02-09, 01:49
Well that turned out to be whole lotta nuthin'.

Mr.Burns
27-02-09, 01:58
That's just sad.. the word 'gay' used to mean nothing but happy and fun, but now today's society claims to classify it as bad and offensive..

How can people be themselves with all this censoring and banning? It's RIDICULOUS! it would be no different then blocking out the words white, black, ect.. I am furious with Microsoft.. :mad:

If people want it in their name and they want to express it, it's their choice, why stop them from doing so? It expresses who they are!

Read and ye shall understand:

Okay AA, let's try this out.

You own a large game business. It's very profitable and you offer an online service for people to enjoy your games. Now since you should be very aware by now that anyone will sue you for anything remotely inflammatory or offensive, you want to protect yourself. What do you do? Well, you decide to set up a series of guidelines and terms to ensure that your subscribers will behave in a mature manner as well as protect you from any potential lawsuits or other legal action. Given how calling someone a fag might be insulting to one but not another, you realize that if you start removing or banning members for making derogatory remarks about homosexuals but allowing similar talk from heteros, you'll be setting up a double standard and by which, a means to be sued. So, what do you do? Do you let people say what they want on YOUR service run by YOUR company and thereby put YOUR company's reputation and possible financial future on the line, or do you take an aggressive stance and not allow any such material to be posted?

Microsoft is doing this to ensure their asses are legally covered. When you agree to the terms and agreements (that big load of fine print), you're putting yourself into a legally binding agreement. So if you violate their terms (that you agreed to), they are well within their rights to enforce the rules that YOU agreed to.

This isn't discrimination, it's protecting one's self and the company they work for.

interstellardave
27-02-09, 01:59
Why do so many people read a couple paragraphs of a one-sided story and then go completely bonkers over an assumption that is clearly not true ("MS bans gays because they are gay") when so much has been written in this topic to explain the situation--and where it has been proven that a man with "heterosexual" in his profile was banned within 1 hour? :hea:

It strikes me as very interesting that the gay community doesn't want people to judge them or make unfair assumptions about them, their lifestyle, etc., yet that is what is being done with regards to MS... any kind of vague statement or half-story is blown out of proportion, treated as absolute gospel truth, and, within seconds, we're on the "MS is evil" train again... I just don't get it... :confused:

Carbonek_0051
27-02-09, 02:00
EDIT: DAMN YOU LORD PIGEON!:p

That's just sad.. the word 'gay' used to mean nothing but happy and fun, but now today's society claims to classify it as bad and offensive..

How can people be themselves with all this censoring and banning? It's RIDICULOUS! it would be no different then blocking out the words white, black, ect.. I am furious with Microsoft.. :mad:

If people want it in their name and they want to express it, it's their choice, why stop them from doing so? It expresses who they are! Matt maybe you should read through the thread for some better views on the subject. MS isn't trying to be "homophobic". I think Mr. Burns made a good point:
Okay AA, let's try this out.

You own a large game business. It's very profitable and you offer an online service for people to enjoy your games. Now since you should be very aware by now that anyone will sue you for anything remotely inflammatory or offensive, you want to protect yourself. What do you do? Well, you decide to set up a series of guidelines and terms to ensure that your subscribers will behave in a mature manner as well as protect you from any potential lawsuits or other legal action. Given how calling someone a fag might be insulting to one but not another, you realize that if you start removing or banning members for making derogatory remarks about homosexuals but allowing similar talk from heteros, you'll be setting up a double standard and by which, a means to be sued. So, what do you do? Do you let people say what they want on YOUR service run by YOUR company and thereby put YOUR company's reputation and possible financial future on the line, or do you take an aggressive stance and not allow any such material to be posted?

Microsoft is doing this to ensure their asses are legally covered. When you agree to the terms and agreements (that big load of fine print), you're putting yourself into a legally binding agreement. So if you violate their terms (that you agreed to), they are well within their rights to enforce the rules that YOU agreed to.

This isn't discrimination, it's protecting one's self and the company they work for.

And I also think this helps get my point across a little more. I'm pretty sure me & Lenochka aren't the only ones who think this way.;):

Why is everyone trippin about this? Really, big whoop they don't allow "god" in profiles or names.:rolleyes:

It is like no big deal, I am gay but am in no way offended. Why the hell would someone put that in their profile or name? It's just asking for trouble if you ask me.:whi:

I don't see why people turn this into some big conspiracy.:ton:

Exactly
I mean, its not wrong to be gay and proud... but putting it in random area's like that is just kind of asking for trouble knowing how that is a rather sensitive issue still in some places.

Mr.Burns
27-02-09, 02:03
... I just don't get it... :confused:

Impatience to read through a lengthy thread or a short attention span.

@Carbonek: :tea:

MattTR
27-02-09, 02:09
Read and ye shall understand:

I read and understand that, but surely there are several more prominent offensive words out there on the list, you probably won't see the word Trannie-Grannie banned.. why single out 'gays'?

EDIT: DAMN YOU LORD PIGEON!:p

Matt maybe you should read through the thread for some better views on the subject. MS isn't trying to be "homophobic". I think Mr. Burns made a good point:

I understand the fact and never said they were trying to be homophobic or whatever, but singling out gays is offensive in itself, they should broaden the topic and perhaps say 'MICROSOFT BANS OFFENSIVE GESTURES', wouldn't that sound better? :confused:

I just hate when one group or minority is singled out.. :(

Carbonek_0051
27-02-09, 02:12
I read and understand that, but surely there are several more prominent offensive words out there on the list, you probably won't see the word Trannie-Grannie banned.. why single out 'gays'?



I understand the fact and never said they were trying to be homophobic or whatever, but singling out gays is offensive in itself, they should broaden the topic and perhaps say 'MICROSOFT BANS OFFENSIVE GESTURES', wouldn't that sound better? :confused:

I just hate when one group or minority is singled out.. :(

The don't allow the word "GOD" either, they don't allow anything slightly offensive or suggestive. They are not singling out anyone they are trying to think of their company & their customers.

Btw this post doesn't show you understand, why are you furious at MS?:

That's just sad.. the word 'gay' used to mean nothing but happy and fun, but now today's society claims to classify it as bad and offensive..

How can people be themselves with all this censoring and banning? It's RIDICULOUS! it would be no different then blocking out the words white, black, ect.. I am furious with Microsoft.. :mad:

If people want it in their name and they want to express it, it's their choice, why stop them from doing so? It expresses who they are!

interstellardave
27-02-09, 02:15
I read and understand that, but surely there are several more prominent offensive words out there on the list, you probably won't see the word Trannie-Grannie banned.. why single out 'gays'?

I understand the fact and never said they were trying to be homophobic or whatever, but singling out gays is offensive in itself, they should broaden the topic and perhaps say 'MICROSOFT BANS OFFENSIVE GESTURES', wouldn't that sound better? :confused:

MS didn't single out gays... a man with "heterosexual" in his profile was banned within an hour of complaints being made.

I'll bet any amount of money if someone posted "I love trannies" they'd be banned... it might take someone complaining about it first, but once MS were onto it they wouldn't let it stand.

spikejones
27-02-09, 02:15
read back a few pages and you will see that the MS live Terms of Use actually state that potentially offensive gestures are not allowed according to section 5 as relates to the code of conduct. better yet... just google

X-Box Live Terms of Use.

its not singling out gays - its singling out SEX related words. (and other stuff that can be viewed or misconstrued as offensive)

Mr.Burns
27-02-09, 02:15
I read and understand that, but surely there are several more prominent offensive words out there on the list, you probably won't see the word Trannie-Grannie banned.. why single out 'gays'?



I understand the fact and never said they were trying to be homophobic or whatever, but singling out gays is offensive in itself, they should broaden the topic and perhaps say 'MICROSOFT BANS OFFENSIVE GESTURES', wouldn't that sound better? :confused:

I just hate when one group or minority is singled out.. :(


As spikejones posted earlier, according to the terms of the xblox live service, anything of sexual nature is prohibited so by that statement alone, hetero, homo, or just plain weird is included. The concept of homosexuality is still a hotly debated and persecuted one. It causes a lot of fights, stirs anger and has even led to killings. Because of the volatility of homosexuality, more attention is focused on this. It's not a prejudism, just being cautious.

interstellardave
27-02-09, 02:18
What people SHOULD realize is that it's for the persons' own good more than anything. She put "lesbian" on there and got loads of grief over it... MS could ban everyone that gave her trouble (if they knew who they all were) but it wouldn't change her experience--and she'd continue to hear it from some users. MS is basically being kind by saying "don't ask for trouble, 'cause you don't want it and WE don't want it either."

MattTR
27-02-09, 02:23
As spikejones posted earlier, according to the terms of the xblox live service, anything of sexual nature is prohibited so by that statement alone, hetero, homo, or just plain weird is included. The concept of homosexuality is still a hotly debated and persecuted one. It causes a lot of fights, stirs anger and has even led to killings. Because of the volatility of homosexuality, more attention is focused on this. It's not a prejudism, just being cautious.

If that's the case, people have killed people for race, culture, backgrounds/ethnicity, beliefs, religion, it focuses and complies with far more than just orientation.. I know it's not prejudism, but I think far more things should be censored if that's the case, I don't see why they had to make this big announcement either, some things like this just annoy me, call me over sensitive, but I wish things could all be fair, but that's never going to happen. :rolleyes:

spikejones
27-02-09, 02:28
what things should be censored in your opinion MattTR?

interstellardave
27-02-09, 02:30
Some people say they are losing their "right to express themselves" or the "right to free speech"... to that I say it's not exactly the same thing as being denied the right to address your representatives or stage a peaceful protest. If shouting about your sexuality is all you want to do on a public forum that is mainly for gaming then a little introspection may be in order.

silver_wolf
27-02-09, 02:35
What people SHOULD realize is that it's for the persons' own good more than anything. She put "lesbian" on there and got loads of grief over it... MS could ban everyone that gave her trouble (if they knew who they all were) but it wouldn't change her experience--and she'd continue to hear it from some users. MS is basically being kind by saying "don't ask for trouble, 'cause you don't want it and WE don't want it either."
that's what I was trying to say- they weren't being prejudiced, I think it's the best they could do.

spikejones
27-02-09, 02:37
a part of me wonders to what purpose it would serve to run around and shout "I'm a recovering alcoholic!! look at me!!"

hell, I've already been witch hunted for posting an essay about my past.

ECB
27-02-09, 02:40
There are two sides to every story. I try to keep that in mind. But, trust me, I ****ing hate Microsoft.

Draco
27-02-09, 03:23
I see nothing wrong with banning someone for breaking the ToS.

MattTR
27-02-09, 03:36
what things should be censored in your opinion MattTR?

Well if they think 'gays' have a negative affect would about religious, racial, and cultural backgrounds?

The thing that sparks me is that they even have country flags outfits for your avatars and some countries are left out like Mexico or the United States.. That I truly don't understand.. :rolleyes:

Carbonek_0051
27-02-09, 03:38
I see nothing wrong with banning someone for breaking the ToS.
Exactly!:tmb:
Well if they think 'gays' have a negative affect would about religious, racial, and cultural backgrounds?

The thing that sparks me is that they even have country flags outfits for your avatars and some countries are left out like Mexico or the United States.. That I truly don't understand.. :rolleyes:
They don't let you say "GOD" like I have been saying to you. So no religous things are not allowed either.:rolleyes:

As for the flag outfits I was aware they were for sports event. Maybe the ones not included didn't take place in the event, if they did I don't know what the explanation but it's really no big deal.;)

Punaxe
27-02-09, 11:28
Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/02/microsoft-admits-to-defends-banning-lesbian-xbox-live-user.ars) with Microsoft's response:

(...) "As stated in the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use, a member may not create a gamertag or use text in other profile fields that include comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate content of a potentially sexual nature," we were told. "Profiles that do are asked to change the language and suspended until changes are made. In regards to sexual orientation, for gamertags or profiles we do not allow expression of any type of orientation, be that hetero or other. Players can, however, self identify in voice communication where context is more easily explained to all players involved."
(...)
Online communities like Xbox Live and Home are incredibly hard to police, and while this sort of bigoted behavior may be suppressed in real life for fear of physical reprisals or the disdain of coworkers and friends, the anonymity of the Internet means that people are free to let their hatefulness run wild, with little to no repercussions. The policy that forbids disclosure of sexual identity—a kind of gaming "don't ask, don't tell" policy—is not be the optimal solution, but it's going to be hard to come up with an alternative that will make most people happy.

Orionvalentine
27-02-09, 11:32
I am all for being 'out' and proud, hell, I am 'out' all the time. But the fact of the matter is if you want a fun time online without bigotry, just don't bother mentioning it. Most people online aren't even worth telling something like that.

(Apart for on TRF of course)

Encore
27-02-09, 11:36
^ I don't understand why people should be "proud" of their sexual orientation though. I'm heterosexual and I'm not "proud" of it because that's just the way nature made me, it's not like it's an achievement of mine. If gay people believe that their orientation is a natural thing, then I fail to see why exactly they should feel proud of it, as if it somehow makes them superior to heterosexual people... I dunno, it's just my opinion. Like dave has said there are a lot of attitudes from gay people that directly contradict their desire to be recognized as equal.

Neteru
27-02-09, 12:22
^ I don't understand why people should be "proud" of their sexual orientation though.To be in direct opposition to the teaching that being gay is something shameful. One doesn't have to be proud of being heterosexual because people are not taught that it is something to be ashamed of.

Encore
27-02-09, 12:31
The gay people that I know don't seem particularly proud nor ashamed of being so. They just... are. Quite naturally.

Jo269976
27-02-09, 12:34
Can I just pop in to say normality is not a 'thing', it's a concept :wve:

Neteru
27-02-09, 13:08
The gay people that I know don't seem particularly proud nor ashamed of being so. They just... are. Quite naturally.Good for them. That's great.

MattTR
27-02-09, 13:22
Can I just pop in to say normality is not a 'thing', it's a concept :wve:

Well maybe all we need is a new spelling - GHEY. It's kind of like a "Hey-I'm Gay" all in one. G-hey. :eek:

:p Sorry just brain storming..

spikejones
27-02-09, 14:04
The gay people that I know don't seem particularly proud nor ashamed of being so. They just... are. Quite naturally.
and a lot of gay people that I have known in the past are the type to flaunt it all over town. the whole "loud and proud" thing or whatever. and the thing that baffles me - they have their own flag:confused:

are they declaring themselves to be of a whole different nation or something? there isn't a "straight flag".

irjudd
27-02-09, 14:05
and a lot of gay people that I have known in the past are the type to flaunt it all over town. the whole "loud and proud" thing or whatever. and the thing that baffles me - they have their own flag:confused:

are they declaring themselves to be of a whole different nation or something? there isn't a "straight flag".
Well that would go along with what I've heard before about not liking homosexuals being "racist". :whi:

TTV
27-02-09, 14:14
Yet another reason for me to hate Microsoft and Xbox Live....

Neteru
27-02-09, 14:18
are they declaring themselves to be of a whole different nation or something? there isn't a "straight flag".The flag is to say that all people are equal. All colours, all creeds.

ShadyCroft
27-02-09, 14:21
To be in direct opposition to the teaching that being gay is something shameful. One doesn't have to be proud of being heterosexual because people are not taught that it is something to be ashamed of.

Thats exactly what I was thinking about writing yesterday. I don't make a big deal out of my orientation, but I can understand the reason behind some people doing it.

The majority of the global population is approving of straight orientation, so straight people really shouldn't and couldn't possibly feel any worries or anything simply because it's not considered a big deal. So the feeling of "Seriously, I don't understand why its a big deal" really cannot be avoided...you don't get harped at for it. :) As for homosexuals, they're the ones who if they reveal a single toe would be hate mailed, trashed, and insulted and made devil worshipers, prostitutes and promiscuous, so it does create a rebellious feeling in some people, and I think those feeling stick with some one.

Not knowing the T&C of the Xbox360 Network, I looked at the issue from a single angle. Now I do understand the issue and I don't have a problem with it.

Orientation, whatever it is, is sex related (even in the slightest). Any sex-implying content should definitely be rejected for safety measures.


Yet another reason for me to hate Microsoft and Xbox Live....

I think this and similar statement are a bit unnecessary, especially since we don't know the whole story.
To elaborate more...
I used to feel like "Really ? Why should it be like this ? Its unnecessary!" regarding the forum rules such as double posting and quoting lots of images.
I'm taking a Database (Oracle 10g) course now, and since I took a PHP course, I had a deeper understanding of how forums work. How the posts are stored in a Datebase, images and all, and corresponding to the name of the poster (being a thing called a Primary key). Double posting and quoting previously posted images, as I understood, could really create redundancy in databases and all sorts of other Database principles related problems (would get into much details).

Now I appreciate the strict behavior of the mods here and I no longer will complain. :)

Same case applies here...

Punaxe
27-02-09, 14:24
http://files.noctifer.net/badumtssshhh.jpg

I addressed that here, btw :p

I think you're using the wrong definition for the 'sex' part. It is not about the act of making love, it is about the sexes, as in male and female. Homophilia? Same love? Same love as what? Homosexophilia seems to be what you're after. :p

Indeed, SEX is not part of the description. GENDER is.

Encore
27-02-09, 18:01
and a lot of gay people that I have known in the past are the type to flaunt it all over town. the whole "loud and proud" thing or whatever. and the thing that baffles me - they have their own flag:confused:

are they declaring themselves to be of a whole different nation or something? there isn't a "straight flag".

Yeah like Neteru says I don't think the flag is for gay people only, I've seen it in protests on the most varied of issues and it usually just stands for equality. But one thing that DOES annoy me is things like the gay parades.... I might be talking WAY outta my ass here but, if I was gay I think I would feel insulted by those things. :confused: :o

ShadyCroft
27-02-09, 18:17
The rainbow flag (in my opinion) is not like the flag of a country, its sorta like the official mark for the LGBT community, and its there because there are activists and organizations who support them, so there has to be a mark or a sign to distinguish it...sorta like the yellow arches of McDonald, the red ribbon for AIDS campaign and so on.

And before you go on and say "...why do you need an organization and bla bla bla...straight folks don't have activists and organizations", and that's where we go back to the point which says that straight folks are approved of globally, so why would there be an organization for them ?
Like I said, some one says they're gay and most people around start bashing him/her and throwing death threats at them...so that's why organizations exist, for defending, condoning hate acts, making yourself heard and all things along these line.

Now the parade is where I agree with you. I'm not a fan of them, and I've seen some pictures of a few and really thought some people took it too far and crossed a line by going around naked in the streets where anybody could see them. :mad: I wouldn't do that in a million years.

Lee croft
27-02-09, 18:26
they had the flag up in mile end a few weeks ago

EgyptianSoul
27-02-09, 18:28
The whole LGBT community has it's own flag. And gays, bi's and transgenders have their own symbols as well. :)

Orionvalentine
27-02-09, 18:34
Isn't it just a symbol in general? Sure it may be on a flag, but it's on a whole other load of things also. I get annoyed when people think it's a superiority thing, cause it's not.

It just...is what it is.

ShadyCroft
27-02-09, 18:47
Isn't it just a symbol in general? Sure it may be on a flag, but it's on a whole other load of things also. I get annoyed when people think it's a superiority thing, cause it's not.

It just...is what it is.

Dunno what kind of gay people you've met who thought it was superior. I agree with you, it's just a symbol. I don't think it's superior or the opposite. Dominos pizza's domino trademark isn't what makes it better than McDonald with its yellow arches (or the other way around if you like). ;)

It's such a shame most of you have seen a sample (a bad one apparently) and some of you are posting things as if its the whole population. :(

Orionvalentine
27-02-09, 19:01
Dunno what kind of gay people you've met who thought it was superior. I agree with you, it's just a symbol. I don't think it's superior or the opposite. Dominos pizza's domino trademark isn't what makes it better than McDonald with its yellow arches (or the other way around if you like). ;)

It's such a shame most of you have seen a sample (a bad one apparently) and some of you are posting things as if its the whole population. :(

That's the thing, it's not gay people that think it's superior in my experience, it's heterosexual people that don't understand what it means.

It is a symbol of unity, hope and pride.

EgyptianSoul
27-02-09, 19:17
I really hate it how many straight people think that all gays are sex-crazed perverts. :rolleyes:

Orionvalentine
27-02-09, 19:18
I completely agree EgyptianSoul, I have been called perverted so many times just for being gay. It's ridiculous!

Neteru
27-02-09, 19:28
Posts removed. Let's not eh?

And the topic is straying a bit.

Orionvalentine
27-02-09, 19:31
Posts removed. Let's not eh?

And the topic is straying a bit.

Oh, I apologise.

Back on topic: I can understand where Microsoft are coming from in a way, because if it's not explicitly stated on a profile then there is no harm to both parties. Still though, it's kind of a shame that people that wish to state their orientation can't.

ShadyCroft
27-02-09, 19:32
Yes, I was afraid of that. I did cross a line. Sorry, Net.

Yes, lets get back on topic. :)

EgyptianSoul
27-02-09, 19:40
Posts removed. Let's not eh?

And the topic is straying a bit.

Yeah. Sorry about that.