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violentblossom
10-03-09, 17:03
When you hear "Disney", you tend to think of cute talking animals, glittery princesses, and catchy songs, but as of late, I can't help but notice a slight shift in what is considered to be "kid tested, mother approved".

Recently, upon watching the third installation in the Pirates of the Carribean series, i had to continuously remind myself that what i was watching was a Disney production. The sheer amount of violence was more than a little suprising to me, and i couldn't help but wonder if i was the only one who was mildly offended by it.. while i understand that the movie is in fact, rated PG-13, Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End is NOT by any means a children's film, and to see that it was marketed as such was more than offputting.

Parents hear Disney, and automatically think, "Yeah, okay, chi-ching, enjoy kids, sayonara!" while not even paying much attention to what it is that their child is watching. I'm not saying that all Disney movies are garbage or anything, but it is kind of bothersome that people generally put so much trust into a company name based on what used to be (and still, for the most part) spotless record.

In 1977's The Rescuers, a naked woman can briefly be seen in the background.

In 2008's Bolt, at one point in time, a hamster says the line, "Wait here, I'll snap his neck."

In 2009's Race to Witch Mountain, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson mumbles something to himself about how its best not to go into the "pimped out fridge".

Is anyone else bothered/annoyed by this? I mean, i know that Nightmare Before Christmas was an obvious dark film, but this is a little different. I do not want my little girl getting a little older and thinking she can use phrases like "Pimped out" in her everyday vernacular.

What do you all think?

EDIT: Before you respond:

VIOLENTBLOSSOM:

I don't have problems with those early Disney movies, because those are themes that need to be introduced to children so that they know about the dangers of the world. BUT, i don't feel like explaining what a "pimp" is to my little girl at an early age, and "snap is neck" is just a little too descriptive in my book.. to say someone died is one thing, that doesn't exactly say how..

jamieoliver22
10-03-09, 17:08
You are honestly offended by this? Oh come on...

Encore
10-03-09, 17:08
A lot of the classic Disney movies had frightening sequences and suggestive themes as well. I am not bothered by this at all. You can't raise a kid expecting him not to know there's violence in the world anyway. It's a reality.

And, from a movie apreciation point of view, I would have been very upset if the Pirates trilogy was sanitized considering the life style of a pirate! In fact, Disney has sanitized the movie Prince Caspian (no blood etc) and it turned out horribly unconvincing.

So, bottomline is, no I am not concerned with this.

Sharon_14
10-03-09, 17:09
Yes, I remember all the old films with all the talking animals and such, but nowadays, children dont want that, they want hardcore fight scenes with blood all over the screen, although Pirates of the Carribean series was a Disney production, it doesn't mean its for kids, this movie is a action/drama/comedy masterpeice, its one of the best movies I've seen, and I've seen the whole trilogy.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 17:12
You are honestly offended by this? Oh come on...

i'm irritated more than anything by "I'll snap his neck" and the whole "pimped-out" thing. i'm a new mom, i'm sure i'm being touchy, but still.. i wouldn't want to hear little kids running around saying "I'll go snap his neck!" That's not even funny.

As far as the violence in Pirates, i just am not cool with it being made to seem like a kid movie. It's clearly not.

TRhalloween
10-03-09, 17:16
When you think of kids, you're probably thinking of 4-7 year olds. Disney doesn't just limit itself to that age group. I don't find a problem in Disney taking things to another level. I'm sure some people would be sick and tired of Disney if the sugar coated everything.

Olabelle
10-03-09, 17:37
Even if Disney didn't put that stuff in the newer movies, kids are going to hear and see this stuff elsewhere, no matter what you do.

Attempting to keep things 'child friendly' and sheltering children does nothing but keep them unprepared for the real world. Taking the responsibility to let them know that even though they saw this in a movie, they're not to repeat it or act like it.

Trigger_happy
10-03-09, 17:38
As far as the violence in Pirates, i just am not cool with it being made to seem like a kid movie. It's clearly not.

That's why its rated 12. If you take your children to film and they are under-age, its your fault, not the film makers.

Plus, as mentioned, Disney films are horribly violent. In Snow White, the wicked Witch falls off a cliff to her death- that's much nastier that threatening to snap someone's neck.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 17:39
Even if Disney didn't put that stuff in the newer movies, kids are going to hear and see this stuff elsewhere, no matter what you do.

Attempting to keep things 'child friendly' and sheltering children does nothing but keep them unprepared for the real world. Taking the responsibility to let them know that even though they saw this in a movie, they're not to repeat it or act like it.


I do agree with this.

I've just always felt that Disney needed to keep that kind of thing out of their films is all.

VonCroy360
10-03-09, 17:40
In Snow White, the queen witch has her own personal assassin and she tells him to "kill" Snow White and bring her heart to her, not to mention a cute little song the dwarfs sing when they notice an intruder is in their home:
"Off with it's head,
Break it's bones,
Chop it to pieces,
We'll kill it dead."

In The Little Mermaid, Ariel is afraid her father will "kill" her and in Beauty and the Beast, there's a mob going around shouting they want to "kill" Beast.

The wolf basically eats two women in Little Red Riding Hood, not to mention Andersen's Little Match Girl, The Red Shoes or The Snow Queen, which are often considered simple fairytales and read to children, that have dying and chopping legs off in them.

The children have been hearing things like this, and worse, for a long long time and generations after generations turned out fine. I don't think there's a problem. It's obviously true kids these days are more violent, but that's hardly Disney's fault.

Olabelle
10-03-09, 18:05
I do agree with this.

I've just always felt that Disney needed to keep that kind of thing out of their films is all.
Disney's always had a bit of violence and the like in them, I just don't think it was taken as seriously because before now, it was most all with cartoons.

spikejones
10-03-09, 18:09
i'm irritated more than anything by "I'll snap his neck" and the whole "pimped-out" thing. i'm a new mom, i'm sure i'm being touchy, but still.. i wouldn't want to hear little kids running around saying "I'll go snap his neck!" That's not even funny.

As far as the violence in Pirates, i just am not cool with it being made to seem like a kid movie. It's clearly not.
try not to look at it as "Disney is for kids" in fact... don't ever look at the producers. I never do. Look at the rating. If its rated G - then I am sure that it passed whatever rules are in place to receive that rating. If you find something in a G rated movie to be offensive, the perhaps it is because of a shift in what had become acceptable by society overall.

on the subject of Disney and "not for children themes" dont forget about the frame(s) in Lion King where the dust spells the letters "SEX" - and that one WAS rated G ;)

Forwen
10-03-09, 18:09
I hear Disney, I think Hugo's "The Hunchback...". Weird.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 18:13
on the subject of Disney and "not for children themes" dont forget about the frame(s) in Lion King where the dust spells the letters "SEX" - and that one WAS rated G ;)


I've never found the "SEX" thing in that movie, so i wouldn't expect my kid to, eiether. :p

Forwen
10-03-09, 18:14
on the subject of Disney and "not for children themes" dont forget about the frame(s) in Lion King where the dust spells the letters "SEX" - and that one WAS rated G ;)

Wasn't that supposed to be SFX.

Joely-Moley
10-03-09, 18:18
on the subject of Disney and "not for children themes" dont forget about the frame(s) in Lion King where the dust spells the letters "SEX" - and that one WAS rated G ;)

What?!, I don't remember this!

spikejones
10-03-09, 18:21
Wasn't that supposed to be SFX.

What?!, I don't remember this!

http://www.snopes.com/disney/graphics/lionani.gif (http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lionking.asp)

(click the image for the article at snopes)

if you click the link "Disney Films" you'll see other oddities that people claim to be present in Disney Films - most complaints of which are headed up by some radical Christian group.

weird... snopes removed the image somehow with an apparent anti image linking script. here it is:
http://i42.************/ioeowm.jpg

Kerrigan
10-03-09, 19:00
This may seem harsh, but I don't understand why people get offended by these kind of things. Disney is mild anyway, they often censor violence and disturbing themes to great lenghts, sometimes not making justice to the original concept of the of the storyline.I find political corectness and exaggerated consorship irritating and paranoid. And I don't think that Disney is becoming less kid firendly at all.On the contrary, their earlier works were usually more mature and daring than they are now . (think of the dark imagery of "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty" )

I am not approving of violence for violence's sake in films but disturbing scenes sometimes add a lot to the atmosphere and the impact of the film. For an extreme example, take "Pan's Labyrinth", although it is by no means a children's film or a Disney production, it is an excellent film in which violence has a definite purpose.

Of course, Disney can't follow that approach, because it is not intended to. But I actually admired them when they had the courage to include more mature themes into their works, especially knowing how prone to criticism this makes them. They can't always portray an utopia, even fairy tales and myths have parallels to the real world, so that people can relate to them.

And it's unrealistic to think that children learn violent behaviours from cartoons anyway; for the most part, they learn about pain and violence and other themes that are considred offensive in films when dealing with real life, and in a much harsher way than cartoons can depict.

Melonie Tomb Raider
10-03-09, 19:14
You are honestly offended by this? Oh come on...

Why shouldn't she be? She has a young daughter that she's looking out for, and I'm sure she doesn't want her subject to things that are not kid friendly at the moment.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 19:15
This may seem harsh, but I don't understand why people get offended by these kind of things. Disney is mild anyway, they often censor violence and disturbing themes to great lenghts, sometimes not making justice to the original concept of the of the storyline.I find political corectness and exaggerated consorship irritating and paranoid. And I don't think that Disney is becoming less kid firendly at all.On the contrary, their earlier works were usually more mature and daring than they are now . (think of the dark imagery of "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty" )

I am not approving of violence for violence's sake in films but disturbing scenes sometimes add a lot to the atmosphere and the impact of the film. For an extreme example, take "Pan's Labyrinth", although it is by no means a children's film or a Disney production, it is an excellent film in which violence has a definite purpose.

Of course, Disney can't follow that approach, because it is not intended to. But I actually admired them when they had the courage to include more mature themes into their works, especially knowing how prone to criticism this makes them. They can't always portray an utopia, even fairy tales and myths have parallels to the real world, so that people can relate to them.

And it's unrealistic to think that children learn violent behaviours from cartoons anyway; for the most part, they learn about pain and violence and other themes that are considred offensive in films when dealing with real life, and in a much harsher way than cartoons can depict.

As i said to another member, its not so much the violence itself that gets to me, (we'll continue using Pirates of the Carribean), but the fact that they marketed the movie to an age range that was under the PG-13 age bracket. I don't think that they'd make kid's meal toys for a movie like Live Free or Die Hard or Mean Girls.

Also, i can understand the pain thing and some darker themes in Disney movies, such as when Simba's father dies in The Lion King or Cinderella's stepmother being unkind to her because i feel like kids should understand that some people are just bad.

EDIT: Thank you Mel, i adore you. :hug:

spikejones
10-03-09, 19:22
did they make kids meal toy for Pirates? I honestly wouldn't know since I don't go to fast food joints much and McDonalds is way down on my list of favorites. But hey... if you wanna look at marketing it to kids... look here:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7106690455000454484&hl=en

that's a promo for Pirates - Dead Man's Chest. Look at all the kids having fun :D

madderakka
10-03-09, 19:22
Since I've had my son, I have realized Disney movies are all kind of disturbing.

In Bambi, his mother is killed in front of him and he's left by himself in the woods.

In Dumbo, he's ripped from his mother and treated badly, continuously made fun of, gets drunk, the circus men and crows are really bad racial caricatures. Just look up the lyrics to the songs.

In Lion King again, parent killed in front of him. I don't think any of the characters have 2 live parents except for Sleeping Beauty.

But Madagascar was a lotworse. I thought it was hilarious, but most of the jokes were not kid friendly and I was sitting through the movie praying he didn't repeat at least half of what was said in the movie.

TRhalloween
10-03-09, 19:28
try not to look at it as "Disney is for kids" in fact... don't ever look at the producers. I never do. Look at the rating. If its rated G - then I am sure that it passed whatever rules are in place to receive that rating. If you find something in a G rated movie to be offensive, the perhaps it is because of a shift in what had become acceptable by society overall.

on the subject of Disney and "not for children themes" dont forget about the frame(s) in Lion King where the dust spells the letters "SEX" - and that one WAS rated G ;)

I've never found the "SEX" thing in that movie, so i wouldn't expect my kid to, eiether. :p



(click the image for the article at snopes)

if you click the link "Disney Films" you'll see other oddities that people claim to be present in Disney Films - most complaints of which are headed up by some radical Christian group.

weird... snopes removed the image somehow with an apparent anti image linking script. here it is:
http://i42.************/ioeowm.jpg

You got that image from snopes?
Then you would know that it actually says "SFX"

violentblossom
10-03-09, 19:28
But Madagascar was a lotworse. I thought it was hilarious, but most of the jokes were not kid friendly and I was sitting through the movie praying he didn't repeat at least half of what was said in the movie.

yes, this is an issue with Shrek that i have (though Shrek is not Disney)... i love Shrek myself, and maybe the kids won't get the bad jokes, but still.

spikejones
10-03-09, 19:33
You got that image from snopes?
Then you would know that it actually says "SFX"
that's actually not confirmed... check the label on the tin ;) besides... if it was an F it wouldn't have the bottom line making it an E. but whatevs no skin off my back.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 19:59
Anyone who is offended by this in any way is much too sensitive, and should never have kids in the first place. Disney movies are fine. ;)

Drone
10-03-09, 20:01
they are ok and anyway kids of present days ain't like kids from 70's or 80's

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:06
Anyone who is offended by this in any way is much too sensitive, and should never have kids in the first place. Disney movies are fine. ;)

:mad:

You say this because you don't have children yourself.

You don't know me. Don't make idiotic generalizations based on the fact that i have a different opinion.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:08
Well, then don't say ridiculous things. Disney movies have never been incredibly mystical and happy as you so described. Snow White almost had her heart cut out by a hunter, who instead cut out a pigs heart, and gave it to the queen. That's disturbing...

Also, I don't believe that the movies a child watches affects much with their behavior. I don't care what statistics say. One of the first films I recall watching is John Carpenter's Halloween, and I'm not going out to kill people. ;)

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:10
Well, then don't say ridiculous things. Disney movies have never been incredibly mystical and happy as you so described. Snow White almost had her heart cut out by a hunter, who instead cut out a pigs heart, and gave it to the queen. That's disturbing...

how is what i said in anyway ridiculous? ridiculous to you maybe because you've only just finished being a child.

if you don't have anything nice to day, then don't say anything at all.

there are tactful ways of saying things.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:18
how is what i said in anyway ridiculous? ridiculous to you maybe because you've only just finished being a child.

Wow. :rolleyes: Regardless of my age, I gave you a reason why I think it's ridiculous. I don't think films affect kids in any way. ;) Plus, this world does NOT need any more people trying the censor things. It's just getting annoying, and it's destroying future generations, not helping.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:22
Wow. :rolleyes: Regardless of my age, I gave you a reason why I think it's ridiculous. I don't think films affect kids in any way. ;) Plus, this world does NOT need any more people trying the censor things. It's just getting annoying, and it's destroying future generations, not helping.

Wait until you have children and then think about this topic. Having kids matures you (something you're obviously in desperate need of, judging by the way you go about debating with people.)

I'd like for my daughter retain some of her innocence for at least a little while, thank you very much.

How is my not wanting my little girl to see blood and gore and mature themes in anyway destroying future generations?

pinklaralover
10-03-09, 20:23
well, i love disney movies, the old ones && the new, but still... i do find a huge difference in the way that the old ones are much more childrenish than the newest, good or bad, i still love them all, so yes, maybe they are coming a little less kid friendly. :wve:

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:23
Wait until you have children and then think about this topic. Having kids matures you (something you're obviously in desperate need of, judging by the way you go about debating with people.)

I'd like for my daughter retain some of her innocence for at least a little while, thank you very much.

I love how you critisize me for making a generalization about you, but then you turn around and do the same. :rolleyes: Hypocrit, much?

God Horus
10-03-09, 20:25
In 2008's Bolt, at one point in time, a hamster says the line, "Wait here, I'll snap his neck."


:vlol:!

Sorry! :o Lately when I think of Disney, I think of things like Hannah Montana and High School Musical.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:26
I love how you critisize me for making a generalization about you, but then you turn around and do the same. :rolleyes: HypocritE, much?

no, that's not a generalization. the way you speak to myself and others when they disagree with you gives volumes about yourself. this is not the first time you and i have spoken. if you can't carry a decent conversation/debate with someone without going after their character just to do it, then you're not mature, sorry.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:29
Back on topic: Disney has ALWAYS had adult elements in their films. Snow White was poisoned. Sleeping Beauty was *****ed (Lol... Since when is that a curse term?) by a needle. Cinderella was neglected while she was growing up, and mentally abused as a young woman. That's not even mentioning the hidden SEX stuff in films like The Little Mermaid and The Lion King. None of these films are new, and they all had hidden ADULT elements. Nothing has actually changed...

Biddy
10-03-09, 20:29
Most Disney movies I watched with my family were kid-friendly, but I always thought that the Hunchback of Notre Dame had some mature themes for a kid movie. Disability, death, witchery and religion. Not mentioning Frollo's claim on how Esmerelda will 'go to hell'.

Trigger_happy
10-03-09, 20:30
Have you simply considered not letting your children watch disney films? Its not like they have to by law.

People nowadays seem to be incapable of making their own decisions- its up to you, not the film makers, or the studios or anyone else, to decide whether to watch the film or not. You are given perfectly satisfactory warning about its content, and in this internet age, its possible to find out even more. If you think the films are too violent, don't watch them.

Slightly off topic: the Disney films based on older tales are actually nicer than their written counterparts. In the original version of Snow White (I think), instead of falling off a cliff, the wicked witch is forced to dance to her death in red hot iron shoes. I think falling off a cliff would be nicer.

spikejones
10-03-09, 20:30
and on that happy note... I love you all very much :hug:
can't we all just hit a bong... I mean ..... get along?

perhaps the issue here is that when it becomes real life actors instead of cartoons, the imagery becomes more real than in the animated version (somehow). Personally, yeah.. I see cartoons as always having depicted violence to some degree or another. Just look at loony toons for instance. Sure its funny to see Wile E. Coyote blow himself up when he is trying to blow up Road Runner - or else he falls off a cliff or gets a rock dropped on him. Yosimite Sam was always shooting his guns off at people and other things. The cartoon characters were placed in situations which would have resulted in a real person dying - but they just get right up and walk away. You have to wonder though if this may perhaps be the reason why kids do a lot of crazy things that scare their parents. If a child is constantly bombarded every night by imagery of cartoon characters getting blown up and falling from great heights only to walk away with a couple black marks - is it far fetched to think that a child will have the idea implanted in them that if they jump out of a tree, its gonna be just fine and dandy - no consequences? And what about the kids that pick up real guns and shot their parents... they didn't know it was gonna kill the parent, the cartoons didn't show that happening. To a young child, cartoons are very realistic depictions of what goes on in life. Children learn best by examples and imagery and less by being told "if you do this - this will happen". Kids pick up behaviors from seeing their parents do things, so it is no less reasonable to expect for them to learn from seeing cartoons do things. So I can understand a parent being protective of their child and not wanting to subject them to such imagery if the outcome is not realistic to what happens in real life. It is setting a false image of what things really are. But on the flip side of the coin, you should sit down with your children and educate them on certain things. They need to know that what happens in cartoons isnt real. In addition to this, if you see something in a movie that you are watching with your child and you don't wish for them to repeat something - you need to teach them that it is not acceptable. Above all though, good parenting means teaching by example. You can't honestly expect a kid not to do something if they picked up that behavior from you.

sort of a rambling there... but thats the way I see it.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:32
Disney has ALWAYS had adult elements in their films. Snow White was poisoned. Sleeping Beauty was *****ed by a needle. Cinderella was neglected while she was growing up, and mentally abused as a young woman. That's not even mentioning the hidden SEX stuff in films like The Little Mermaid and The Lion King. None of these films are new, and they all had hidden ADULT elements. Nothing has actually changed...

i don't have problems with those Disney movies, because those are themes that need to be introduced to children so that they know about the dangers of the world. BUT, i don't feel like explaining what a "pimp" is to my little girl at an early age, and "snap is neck" is just a little too descriptive in my book.. to say someone died is one thing, that doesn't exactly say how..

The Lion King's hidden message was already discussed here, and WHAT Little Mermaid sex stuff is there?

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:34
The Lion King's hidden message was already discussed here, and WHAT Little Mermaid sex stuff is there?

Watch the wedding scene, and take a look at the priests pants. It must be the VHS version, as it was taken out on the DVD. Plus, look up the original VHS box art. Study the towers. It must be the ORIGINAL box art. There's nude images, therefore, I can't post them here...

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:37
Watch the wedding scene, and take a look at the priests pants. It must be the VHS version, as it was taken out on the DVD. Plus, look up the original VHS box art. Study the towers. It must be the ORIGINAL box art. There's nude images, therefore, I can't post them here...

Oh, that. Most kids are not going to see the the thing with the priest, he isn't shown very long.. And i know about the penises on the original box art.. i own it. What's more, they don't have that same artwork circulating anymore.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:39
I know they don't have that anymore. I even mentioned it. The fact of the matter is, there has always been inappropriate content in Disney movies...

Most Disney movies I watched with my family were kid-friendly, but I always thought that the Hunchback of Notre Dame had some mature themes for a kid movie. Disability, death, witchery and religion. Not mentioning Frollo's claim on how Esmerelda will 'go to hell'.

That's a VERY good example. :tmb: I sometimes even forget that it's a Disney movie. :p

spikejones
10-03-09, 20:42
The Lion King's hidden message was already discussed here, and WHAT Little Mermaid sex stuff is there?
nothing actual to be honest - its not intended as suggestive, but it turned out that way. again you can find it on snopes under the Disney Films section. they were both debunked. One was that the original artwork for the box cover contained a phallus. It was removed when someone pointed it out. It wasn't an intentional thing, the artist just happened to have been rushed (so he says) and it came out looking like such. The other thing is that the pastor or w/e that married them was said to have an erection during the wedding - it was just his knees - which was plain to see from different angles, but viewed from the side in a few frames, it looked like an erection. Both were fabrications of a perverted viewer mind, and not on part of the artist. TBH.. when I saw the movie, I never thought "oh, theres a guy with an erection" - its the parents who end up seeing that type stuff because they know what it is.

Would a child ask what a pimp is? Perhaps if they are curious. How would you answer it though is the question? If its something that goes on in the world, would you really keep your child ignorant of it at the age of 13? I believe they start teaching kids the difference between boys and girls at a much younger age than that.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:44
nothing actual to be honest - its not intended as suggestive, but it turned out that way. again you can find it on snopes under the Disney Films section. they were both debunked. One was that the original artwork for the box cover contained a phallus. It was removed when someone pointed it out. It wasn't an intentional thing, the artist just happened to have been rushed (so he says) and it came out looking like such. The other thing is that the pastor or w/e that married them was said to have an erection during the wedding - it was just his knees - which was plain to see from different angles, but viewed from the side in a few frames, it looked like an erection. Both were fabrications of a perverted viewer mind, and not on part of the artist. TBH.. when I saw the movie, I never thought "oh, theres a guy with an erection" - its the parents who end up seeing that type stuff because they know what it is.

Would a child ask what a pimp is? Perhaps if they are curious. How would you answer it though is the question? If its something that goes on in the world, would you really keep your child ignorant of it at the age of 13? I believe they start teaching kids the difference between boys and girls at a much younger age than that.

Maybe the erection was an accident, and that's not what it was. However, nobody can deny what's on the cover. It looks exactly like a real one, except for the fact that it's gold. :p

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:45
nothing actual to be honest - its not intended as suggestive, but it turned out that way. again you can find it on snopes under the Disney Films section. they were both debunked. One was that the original artwork for the box cover contained a phallus. It was removed when someone pointed it out. It wasn't an intentional thing, the artist just happened to have been rushed (so he says) and it came out looking like such. The other thing is that the pastor or w/e that married them was said to have an erection during the wedding - it was just his knees - which was plain to see from different angles, but viewed from the side in a few frames, it looked like an erection. Both were fabrications of a perverted viewer mind, and not on part of the artist. TBH.. when I saw the movie, I never thought "oh, theres a guy with an erection" - its the parents who end up seeing that type stuff because they know what it is.

Would a child ask what a pimp is? Perhaps if they are curious. How would you answer it though is the question? If its something that goes on in the world, would you really keep your child ignorant of it at the age of 13? I believe they start teaching kids the difference between boys and girls at a much younger age than that.

i knew about the phallus on the cover and the preacher man, i'd jsut forgotten. :p

i would explain a "pimp" to a 13 year old, but not a 5 or 9 year old.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:48
I'm going to warn you right now. If you shelter your childern too much, they will be weirdos. I'm very good at judging people and I can always pick out the kids that are the most sheltered. They're not exactly the cool guy at the party. And, it's the parents fault. I'm the oldest of 7 kids, so I am very much an expert when it comes to helping raise children. If I was to have a kid now, I would know what to do. I would just have problems with the finanical siuations that comes with the kid... I would NOT be over-sheltering. Hearing the word "pimp" isn't going to harm anything. They're not going to aspire to become a pimp some day. :p

Trigger_happy
10-03-09, 20:48
It looks exactly like a real one, except for the fact that it's gold. :p

You mean that they aren't meant to be gold in real life?!

Anyway, you seem to be defending the apparent erection and phallus's in the Little Mermaid, but then get worked up about the threats of physical violence from a Hamster. I would be more worried about exposing my children to that that cartoon furry animal violence.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:49
Anyway, you seem to be defending the apparent erection and phallus's in the Little Mermaid, but then get worked up about the threats of physical violence from a Hamster. I would be more worried about exposing my children to that that cartoon furry animal violence.

No one is defending the phallus... that box art isn't around anymore, so why would i be bothered by it now?

AmericanAssassin, again, you don't have kids, i don't expect you to understand, but thanks for the advice. :rolleyes:

spikejones
10-03-09, 20:49
i knew about the phallus on the cover and the preacher man, i'd jsut forgotten. :p

i would explain a "pimp" to a 13 year old, but not a 5 or 9 year old.
well I guess it comes down then to heeding the ratings on the cover. and making sure your kids will follow your rules of not watching movies that are above their rating level. it is possible for all you nay sayers, my neighbor would not let their children watch PG13 until they were 13 - even at other people's homes. and in this case it wasn't the parents telling the other parents what the rules were - the kids knew well enough to tell my mom "we can't watch that movie".

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:50
well I guess it comes down then to heeding the ratings on the cover. and making sure your kids will follow your rules of not watching movies that are above their rating level. it is possible for all you nay sayers, my neighbor would not let their children watch PG13 until they were 13 - even at other people's homes. and in this case it wasn't the parents telling the other parents what the rules were - the kids knew well enough to tell my mom "we can't watch that movie".

I feel horrible for those poor sheltered kids. They're going to have a very hard time accepting reality when it hits them. :(

TRhalloween
10-03-09, 20:51
:vlol:
That thing on that guy that looks like his bulge is actually just folds of his clothes!

The only intentional one that I know of is The Rescuers.

Nausinous
10-03-09, 20:53
Your a fool! Disney movies aren't all kid friendly, you should see some of the classics, truly disturbing.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:54
Your a fool! Disney movies aren't all kid friendly, you should see some of the classics, truly disturbing.

lol.

*sigh*

yeah, okay. i must be. :rolleyes:

and we all know that theyre disturbing. you obviously haven't read any posts but the original.

Elmer
10-03-09, 20:55
Disney isn't all cute bunny rabbits in flowery fields, and talking fishes...
Pirates of the caribbean is one thing, but what to think of Walt Disney's: Hitlers Children, Education for Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spFsvpbVWKU)? Really frightning!

violentblossom
10-03-09, 20:56
Disney isn't all cute bunny rabbits in flowery fields, and talking fishes...
Pirates of the caribbean is one thing, but what to think of Walt Disney's: Hitlers Children, Education for Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spFsvpbVWKU)? Really frightning!

whoa! i've never seen that!

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 20:58
Disney isn't all cute bunny rabbits in flowery fields, and talking fishes...
Pirates of the caribbean is one thing, but what to think of Walt Disney's: Hitlers Children, Education for Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spFsvpbVWKU)? Really frightning!

What the hell? I've never heard of this. Now, this I would understand. People needed to complain...

jackles
10-03-09, 20:58
Disney films have always had a cruel streak. The first film my mum took me to see was Dumbo....I was two years old. Surprised it didn't scar me for life!! Then she took me to see Snow White..I was terrified of the Queen, when she turns into the crone. Then Bambi..I was a wreck! :D But has anyone seen Fantasia, topless nymphs plus the anxiety produding the magicans apprentice? There is anxiety a plenty in the films..poisonings..(Snow White) death..separation in fact everything designed to cause an anxious child to fret.


Playing devils advocate here...mightn't this a good thing though? It gives a child a chance to safely explore 'bad things' while having a happy ending. It teaches a child that you can survive awful things and come out strong the other end.

Elmer
10-03-09, 20:59
@ViolentBlossom

Well this is Disney too, although not everyone realizes that...
It would be best, if you really are concerned about it, to read a review first, before letting your child see a disneyfilm:) (Or any other for that matter)

violentblossom
10-03-09, 21:01
Playing devils advocate here...mightn't this a good thing though? It gives a child a chance to safely explore 'bad things' while having a happy ending. It teaches a child that you can survive awful things and come out strong the other end.

I understand what you mean.

i don't have problems with those Disney movies, because those are themes that need to be introduced to children so that they know about the dangers of the world. BUT, i don't feel like explaining what a "pimp" is to my little girl at an early age, and "snap is neck" is just a little too descriptive in my book.. to say someone died is one thing, that doesn't exactly say how..

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 21:03
i don't have problems with those Disney movies, because those are themes that need to be introduced to children so that they know about the dangers of the world. BUT, i don't feel like explaining what a "pimp" is to my little girl at an early age, and "snap is neck" is just a little too descriptive in my book.. to say someone died is one thing, that doesn't exactly say how...

When I was little, I wouldn't have cared about those expressions. They're just words, and if you're a good enough parent, they won't repeat them. To this day, I do not say curse words. I just don't like them, and I was taught not to say them, even though I heard them.

TRfan23
10-03-09, 21:08
Funny you should say that. My mum said Enchanted should have been a 12. She said that some parts scared her (though I've never seen it), and ever since Finding Nemo, with that scary shark like thing, the dad and that fish that always forgets stuff ends up seeing in pitch black. I've noticed they have gotten much more scarier!

_Lam
10-03-09, 21:10
Even if Disney didn't put that stuff in the newer movies, kids are going to hear and see this stuff elsewhere, no matter what you do.

Attempting to keep things 'child friendly' and sheltering children does nothing but keep them unprepared for the real world. Taking the responsibility to let them know that even though they saw this in a movie, they're not to repeat it or act like it.

THIS !
I would not be able to say better...

violentblossom
10-03-09, 21:10
When I was little, I wouldn't have cared about those expressions. They're just words, and if you're a good enough parent, they won't repeat them. To this day, I do not say curse words. I just don't like them, and I was taught not to say them, even though I heard them.

how do you know you wouldn't have cared? now you are older, and can be subjected to just about anything, you can't speak for the point of view of a young child.

let me ask you this:

what's wrong with a child being kept a child?

i understand that at some point she'll have to be taught things, but until that time comes, why must she be exposed to certain things so early on?

i want her to be a kid while she can. in my opinion, today's kids are going up way too fast.

Tihocan9
10-03-09, 21:12
No, I think some movies are getting out of hand but not Disney ones. I parent needs to lay out what is acceptable and what isn't at an early age and always enforce it. I have seen plenty of bad movies, didn't like them but I have seen them, and I have played or seen violent video games when i was younger but I am not violent, mean, use curse words, and I am not disrespectful because I was raised not to and to never act that way. Raise your kids right and it shouldn't be a problem. But I do think some movies are just ridiculous I would prefer no cussing at all but it happens.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 21:13
how do you know you wouldn't have cared? now you are older, and can be subjected to just about anything, you can't speak for the point of view of a young child.

I know that I wouldn't have cared, due to the fact that I've watched "R" rated movies since I was about 5 years old. I had seen every Halloween film before the age of 8, and Scream has been a favorite of mine since I saw it at age 7. ;) None of it bothered me. I'm not some disturbed freak. I don't get in fights. I don't cuss. I don't do drugs. I've never drank. Nothing in any of the films I saw affected me...

spikejones
10-03-09, 21:13
I feel horrible for those poor sheltered kids. They're going to have a very hard time accepting reality when it hits them. :(
actually they are grown up now, and the son has his own band and does shows for the neighborhood parties ;) they're decent well grounded kids that grew up in a Catholic family.

Seb_01225
10-03-09, 21:14
in Alice in wonderland doesn't the caterpillar smoke pot and Alice take LSD like substance in the teeny house? and also 'Down the rabbit hole' is something to do with drugs too.

Reggie
10-03-09, 21:16
I believe there is a balance on the issue of certain topics with Children.
Until a certain age, they're not ready for certain info but leave them unaware for too long and they'll become too sensitive. The age ratings for films more or less get the balance right but sometimes there are failings and its up to the parent to be pro-active by seeking out reviews and info on a certain film, maybe even watching it themselves first and asking themselves the question: is there anything in this I wouldn't tell my children. If the parent is a good parent, this tends to work. :)

oocladableeblah
10-03-09, 21:16
i'm irritated more than anything by "I'll snap his neck" and the whole "pimped-out" thing. i'm a new mom, i'm sure i'm being touchy, but still.. i wouldn't want to hear little kids running around saying "I'll go snap his neck!" That's not even funny.

As far as the violence in Pirates, i just am not cool with it being made to seem like a kid movie. It's clearly not.
I don't remember them ever advertising Pirates as a kids movie to me it was always advertised as a movie for 13+.

I can understand the snap his neck. What offends you about the pimped out?

violentblossom
10-03-09, 21:16
I know that I wouldn't have cared, due to the fact that I've watched "R" rated movies since I was about 5 years old. I had seen every Halloween film before the age of 8, and Scream has been a favorite of mine since I saw it at age 7. ;) None of it bothered me. I'm not some disturbed freak. I don't get in fights. I don't cuss. I don't do drugs. I've never drank. Nothing in any of the films I saw affected me...


boys, i think also process violence and the like better than females, thus typical mens' love of action movies, toy guns, and all things military related.

again, what's wrong with keeping a child a child?

The whole pimped out thing is because "pimped" is obviously derived from "pimp", and little kids don't need to know what that is.

REGGIE and TIHOCAN: I agree with you both.

Elmer
10-03-09, 21:18
how do you know you wouldn't have cared? now you are older, and can be subjected to just about anything, you can't speak for the point of view of a young child.

let me ask you this:

what's wrong with a child being kept a child?

i understand that at some point she'll have to be taught things, but until that time comes, why must she be exposed to certain things so early on?

i want her to be a kid while she can. in my opinion, today's kids are going up way too fast.

I'm a kid myself, (17, so yes, still a kid) but I agree with you on that last point completely. (The rest too, but especially your last point.)

Children really are growing up to fast.
(How it was before television and internet came into existance I would not know, because of my age.)
My little sisters are watching the most stupid programs right now, about... well Paris Hilton and things like that...
The speech in such programs is so terrible... it would be better for them to never watch shows or channels like that, because they really do get influenced by it.

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 21:18
boys, i think also process violence and the like better than females, thus typical mens' love of action movies, toy guns, and all things military related.

again, what's wrong with keeping a child a child?

The whole pimped out thing is because "pimped" is obviously derived from "pimp", and little kids don't need to know what that is.

There's nothing wrong with that. You're the parent, and you can do what you want to. I just don't like it when I feel that people are blaming the movies. If you're so concerned, you should screen the movies. Maybe skip a scene, and explain what happened in a nicer way. It doesn't really matter. Simply put, it's all the parent. If the kids is nice and respectable, the parent is partially the cause. The same goes with crazy rebel kids...

When it comes to the "pimp" thing, I think it's inevitable that your kids will hear about it. I learned about hookers and pimps at around age 8 from my friends, I'd say, and I really didn't care. I just thought they were dirty weirdos. :p

oocladableeblah
10-03-09, 21:21
boys, i think also process violence and the like better than females, thus typical mens' love of action movies, toy guns, and all things military related.

again, what's wrong with keeping a child a child?

The whole pimped out thing is because "pimped" is obviously derived from "pimp", and little kids don't need to know what that is.

REGGIE and TIHOCAN: I agree with you both.
Well I don't think they mean it in correlation with hookers. I think they mean like as in a fridge being modified to have something cool. Like watch the show Pimp My Ride they take old crappy cars and then "pimp" them into cars that work better and have cool (mostly useless to be honest) features.

spikejones
10-03-09, 21:21
I don't get in fights.
something leads me to think otherwise...
Nothing in any of the films I saw affected me...
it would have to ... unless you're just cold hearted and emotionless.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 21:22
I'm a kid myself, (17, so yes, still a kid) but I agree with you on that last point completely. (The rest too, but especially your last point.)

Children really are growing up to fast.
(How it was before television and internet came into existance I would not know, because of my age.)
My little sisters are watching the most stupid programs right now, about... well Paris Hilton and things like that...
The speech in such programs is so terrible... it would be better for them to never watch shows or channels like that, because they really do get influenced by it.


yes, it drives me nuts when i hear preteen girls say they look up to Paris Hilton. :yik:

There's nothing wrong with that. You're the parent, and you can do what you want to. I just don't like it when I feel that people are blaming the movies. If you're so concerned, you should screen the movies. Maybe skip a scene, and explain what happened in a nicer way. It doesn't really matter. Simply put, it's all the parent. If the kids is nice and respectable, the parent is partially the cause. The same goes with crazy rebel kids...

i wouldn't ever blame Disney for warping my kid, so i agree that its wrong to go off and just blame them, i am really the one to be held accountable at the end of the day.

pinklaralover
10-03-09, 21:22
in Alice in wonderland doesn't the caterpillar smoke pot and Alice take LSD like substance in the teeny house? and also 'Down the rabbit hole' is something to do with drugs too.

oh my numpty.
never noticed this.
i feel disney movies are becoming a little less kid friendly. :p

AmericanAssassin
10-03-09, 21:22
I wouldn't ever blame Disney for warping my kid, so i agree that its wrong to go off and just blame them, i am really the one to be held accountable at the end of the day.

Eek. :yik: Can you believe it? I think we've come to an understanding. :p I apologize if, at any point, I offended you in this thread...

spikejones
10-03-09, 21:24
^albeit I basically said all you did in a much nicer and less argumentative manner several pages back.

violentblossom
10-03-09, 21:26
Eek. :yik: Can you believe it? I think we've come to an understanding. :p I apologize if, at any point, I offended you in this thread...

LOL, oh you usually do offend me, but i forgive you, and may just be prepared to take you with a grain of salt the next time we butt heads. ;)

spikejones
10-03-09, 21:28
sometimes I wonder if we really CANT see the forest for the trees?

rickybazire
10-03-09, 21:41
I've always found The Lion King to be a bit extreme and sad with the death of the daddy lion...that always makes me cry.

:o

KIKO
10-03-09, 22:41
I just think Disney doesn't come up with such good movies like Lion King, 101 Dalmatas....moves that used to be good and fun to watch. Nowadays, I rarely watch but I can hear something about new movies.

LazyLara90
10-03-09, 22:51
i dont have any kids. :(
thanks alot for reminding me violentblossom

violentblossom
10-03-09, 22:53
i dont have any kids. :(
thanks alot for reminding me violentblossom

:(

:hug:

spikejones
10-03-09, 22:55
I just think Disney doesn't come up with such good movies like Lion King, 101 Dalmatas....moves that used to be good and fun to watch. Nowadays, I rarely watch but I can hear something about new movies.
I didn't really understand the last part of that post "I can hear something about new movies" :confused:

rowanlim
11-03-09, 02:52
Better for kids to learn from Disney & have the parents explain than to listen to songs dripping with sexual innuendos.

silver_wolf
11-03-09, 03:02
Disney has always filled their movies with subliminal stuff.

Tyrannosaurus
11-03-09, 03:50
I want Disney to make R and NC-17 animated/fantasy films, myself. I've been wanting animation to be treated as an adult medium for some time, let me tell you. Disney, Pixar, and the others certainly are rich enough that they could take the risk and try telling an honest and powerful story that isn't aimed at kids or families and let the rating fall where it may.

As for me, I'm not a kid anymore. I want my adult dreams to be fueled by adult films that respect my intelligence. I dislike the cutsey condescending tone that most kids movies have, and I disliked them when I was a kid. So I welcome this new change, half-assed though it might be.

Disney has always filled their movies with subliminal stuff. Most of this stuff is in the realm of debunked urban legends. The erection sported by the minister at the end of The Little Mermaid for instance, is his knee.

Catapharact
11-03-09, 04:06
*Sigh...* Time to educate you lot.

Disney to begin with didn't market its movies towards kids at all. It was an animaiton company seeking to use animation as a medium for communication using characters which with exaggerated personalities to be used in a sort of parody like stiuations... Much like anime was born in a post-Nuclear Japan as an art form which depicted apocalyptic serious senerios.

And much like anime, its only quite recent that Disney decided to gear its movies towards kids. So its quite understandable that there will be a few movies that might have a bit of a unsettling twist as Disney tries to stick with traditional roots and then branches itself off to other areas

What do I recommend for parents? Please watch a given movie first and see if you personally think its appropriate for your given child before letting them see it.

When I was a kid, Disney mattered little to me (WB however is another story Lol! I love Pepe Le Pew cartoons :p. Unfortunately by today's standards, he would very well fall under the category of stalker and sexual preditor and so his cartoons will very well be censored :rolleyes:)

Heck I was brought up on the 90s violent anime, and American action themed series. One of the more violent series I loved as a kid was a show called "Lens Man." Why did it particularly appeal to me? Its because anime in its true form doesn't tries to sugar coat life's complex problems and situations. Even in a fantasy setting, anime has always been focused upon making its viewer think about those unsettling POVs; Anywhere from politics to relationships.

Apart from a sadistic outlook on things, a callous disposition for people's feelings, and a more logical oriented thought process, I turned out ok :p.

This is why my kids shall never watch Disney movies:

http://i44.************/2na09bl.jpg

Tyrannosaurus
11-03-09, 09:09
I still love Confused Matthew's analysis of The Lion King myself. He points out the weakness in the writing of almost any movie.

spikejones
11-03-09, 14:52
I want Disney to make R and NC-17 animated/fantasy films, myself. I've been wanting animation to be treated as an adult medium for some time, let me tell you. Disney, Pixar, and the others certainly are rich enough that they could take the risk and try telling an honest and powerful story that isn't aimed at kids or families and let the rating fall where it may.

As for me, I'm not a kid anymore. I want my adult dreams to be fueled by adult films that respect my intelligence. I dislike the cutsey condescending tone that most kids movies have, and I disliked them when I was a kid. So I welcome this new change, half-assed though it might be.

Most of this stuff is in the realm of debunked urban legends. The erection sported by the minister at the end of The Little Mermaid for instance, is his knee.
I have to agree with you in some regards there. I think ratings are overrated. Take some horror movies for instance, something like the Happening. Although I thought the movie was completely utterly ridiculous, a lot of stuff had to get cut from it to drop the rating from NC-17 to R. Personally, when I viewed the movie myself I didn't see to terribly much of it that was even worth giving it the R rating except for the one scene where the kid got shot by the shotgun, and maybe some language here and there. But on the whole, the movie was very lacking in action and other gory things that would be deemed to "hard" for kids to watch. The bulk of it was just chit chat about what people thought was the problem. I think a kid could watch the Happening with its R rating and come out no worse for the wear. But any ways.. the point I'm trying to make is that the original plots and scenes that the story writer had in mind will generally be too "hard" for the rating the producers want to market it as - so stuff gets cut out or softened up and the movie ends up loosing its impact.

touchthesky
11-03-09, 20:07
It really doesn't bother me. As has been pointed out before, plenty of older Disney films had worse scenes in them...there are many in Snow White I can think of, the aristocats had a man poisoning kittens....And my goodness, the end of Lady and the tramp!

Only trouble with Disney nowadays is they don't animate like they used too...I don't care about up-to-date animation...I want my films drawn!

oocladableeblah
11-03-09, 20:18
I want Disney to make R and NC-17 animated/fantasy films, myself. I've been wanting animation to be treated as an adult medium for some time, let me tell you. Disney, Pixar, and the others certainly are rich enough that they could take the risk and try telling an honest and powerful story that isn't aimed at kids or families and let the rating fall where it may.
I wouldn't mind an adult cartoon from Disney. I mean who says Disney has to make strictly kids movies.


When I was a kid, Disney mattered little to me (WB however is another story Lol! I love Pepe Le Pew cartoons :p. Unfortunately by today's standards, he would very well fall under the category of stalker and sexual preditor and so his cartoons will very well be censored :rolleyes:)

Woot :D and ditto

Tyrannosaurus
11-03-09, 20:31
If I were to remake Sleeping Beauty, I'd include that version where the prince rapes the princess in her sleep, and if I were to remake Snow White, I'd base it on the incestuous original, or at least have the wicked queen be forced to dance in red scalding hot iron shoes until she dies at the end.

Harsh and brutal justice were the essence of fairy tales.

violentblossom
11-03-09, 20:35
If I were to remake Sleeping Beauty, I'd include that version where the prince rapes the princess in her sleep, and if I were to remake Snow White, I'd base it on the incestuous original, or at least have the wicked queen be forced to dance in red scalding hot iron shoes until she dies at the end.

Harsh and brutal justice were the essence of fairy tales.

i didn't know there was anything incestuous in Snow White. :yik: would you mind pming and tell me what happens?

oocladableeblah
11-03-09, 20:56
i didn't know there was anything incestuous in Snow White. :yik: would you mind pming and tell me what happens?

All the Disney movies are based off old fairy tales and Disney removes a lot of stuff or changes it to be more kid friendly.

@the dinosaur :p I agree someone should make a movie that is close to the original stories. Which is what I think Tim Burton is going to do with Alice in Wonderland (hopefully).

violentblossom
11-03-09, 20:59
All the Disney movies are based off old fairy tales and Disney removes a lot of stuff or changes it to be more kid friendly.


oh, i knew that, i just didn't hear the incestuous bit in Snow White.. i know the queen eats a boar's heart, though, thinking its her's.

Tyrannosaurus
11-03-09, 21:07
Tim Burton is probably just going to make another Tim Burton movie: a shallow fantasy with a visual style in search of a plot, a Danny Elfman score, Johnny Depp in the cast, and a veritable legion of screaming teenage and college girls who are a guaranteed fanbase due to his name and these components alone. He practically mints money.

Joely-Moley
11-03-09, 22:56
Take some horror movies for instance, something like the Happening. Although I thought the movie was completely utterly ridiculous, a lot of stuff had to get cut from it to drop the rating from NC-17 to R. Personally, when I viewed the movie myself I didn't see to terribly much of it that was even worth giving it the R rating except for the one scene where the kid got shot by the shotgun, and maybe some language here and there. But on the whole, the movie was very lacking in action and other gory things that would be deemed to "hard" for kids to watch. The bulk of it was just chit chat about what people thought was the problem. I think a kid could watch the Happening with its R rating and come out no worse for the wear.

hey, I think the old woman in the happening warranted the rating. I'm 20 and where she jumped on the screen made me crap my pants and gave me nightmares...:p

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:04
hey, I think the old woman in the happening warranted the rating. I'm 20 and where she jumped on the screen made me crap my pants and gave me nightmares...:p

i think the man feeding himself to the lions did, too.

Joely-Moley
11-03-09, 23:07
oh yeah! I forgot about that, I can't remember much about that film, just the crazy old lady and the ridiculousness of them all running thorough the field going "AHHH it's coming run, run!" and you see the wind coming after them.

takamotosan
11-03-09, 23:10
if you don't like how disney does their movies, then don't let your children watch them ;)

Nenya awakens
11-03-09, 23:13
As i said to another member, its not so much the violence itself that gets to me, (we'll continue using Pirates of the Carribean), but the fact that they marketed the movie to an age range that was under the PG-13 age bracket. I don't think that they'd make kid's meal toys for a movie like Live Free or Die Hard or Mean Girls.


This may have been stated before, but how can you put in the same categery.. one is a film about a terrorist plot on america, and the other is about high school girls getting *****y with each other? completly different.. and correct me if im wrong but lindsay lohan was used by disney a number of times to appear in films.. one of which being a remake of "herby" an old favourite with adults and children alike!.

disney has allways had violence and death in it's films.. sure it allways sugard the character up! take pocahontas for instance,, in the movies she lived a "happy every after" where in reality she moved to london and in 1617 died of either tuberculosis or smallpox as her lungs wernt used to the london smog, and illness that our country had that hers did not.. i didnt see that any disney movie!

disney has a trend of coating storys up with a sweet layer to make it child friendly, BUT they have allways had a theme of horror and violence, like the stepmother triying to kill snow white with an apple.. you would think that would put kids of apples for life!! but kids love to be scared... POTC to me is tame compared to a lot of earlier disney films..

i would be more worried about the steriotypical view of girls in earlier disney films.. long hair, thin waist.. allways gorgeous.. perfect in everyway!! as a young girl i would be more worried about that then some drunk pirate!!



I should also add that the orignal version of "beauty and the beast" had a nasty stepmother who hired a fairy/nanny to look after the prince, when the prince came of age the fairy tried to seduce him, and as he refused the fairy turned him into a beast.

Villeneuve's version
Villeneuve's tale includes several elements that Beaumont's omits. Chiefly, the back-story of both Belle and the Beast is given. The Beast was a prince who lost his father at a young age, and whose mother had to wage war to defend his kingdom. The queen left him in care of an evil fairy, who tried to seduce him when he became an adult; when he refused, she transformed him into a beast. Belle's story reveals that she is not really a merchant's daughter but the offspring of a king and the same fairy who tried to seduce the prince. The fairy had tried to murder Belle to marry her father, and Belle was put in the place of the merchant's dead daughter to protect her. She also gave the castle elaborate magic, which obscured the more vital pieces of it.Beaumont greatly pared down the cast of characters and simplified the tale to an almost archetypal simplicity.



This was the original version, Beaumonts version was the one disney based there tale on!! also sugar-coating it

Tonyrobinson
11-03-09, 23:24
Watch The Black Cauldron. It's a very dark and violent film to come from Disney and it's quite old but I think it's Disney's most violent classic. It had an amazing story though but did feauture undead warriors and people trying to slaughter a cute piggy :(

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:25
This may have been stated before, but how can you put in the same categery.. one is a film about a terrorist plot on america, and the other is about high school girls getting *****y with each other? completly different.. and correct me if im wrong but lindsay lohan was used by disney a number of times to appear in films.. one of which being a remake of "herby" an old favourite with adults and children alike!.



you missed the point of me using those examples.

i used them because they are rated pg-13, just like Pirates was, only difference was that Pirates was marketed to kids, via kids meals and various toys.

ECB
11-03-09, 23:31
I feel the complete opposite. If anything, I think they're getting more kid friendly.

Examples:

1996: The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I think this one of the most intense Disney movies ever made. Esmerelda almost gets burned at the stake, Quasimodo gets tied down and gets food thrown at him, a priest lusts over Esmerelda, and there's a scene where Phoebus is in the House of Justice and you can hear people getting whipped and moaning in the background. I love this movie, but it was really intense for a little kid.

1951: Alice in Wonderland. The catipillar is smoking a hookah, the Queen yells "Off With Her Head!" Not to much different from what the hamster said in Bolt.

1995: Pocahontas. They sing a song calling the Indians "savages." John Smith also recieves a ton of hits to the head and is about to be killed.

Want me to go on?

Nenya awakens
11-03-09, 23:34
you missed the point of me using those examples.

i used them because they are rated pg-13, just like Pirates was, only difference was that Pirates was marketed to kids, via kids meals and various toys.

i dont see why pirates shouldnt be marketed as a kids film.. its fantasy! it's not some random serial killer slicing up prostitutes, or a tranny skinning girls to make a vest..

its pirates.. on a ship.. when i was 8 i was watching "an american werewolf in london" and hammer horror films! to be honest i probably watched my first horror film when i was about 6

check my post again "the one you quoted"

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:35
i dont see why pirates shouldnt be marketed as a kids film.. its fantasy! it's not some random serial killer slicing up prostitutes, or a tranny skinning girls to make a vest..

its pirates.. on a ship.. when i was 11 i was watching "an american werewolf in london" and hammer horror films!!

check my post again "the one you quoted"

*sigh* it should not be marketed to young kids because its not intended for little kids. its pretty violent.

ECB
11-03-09, 23:38
*sigh* it should not be marketed to young kids because its not intended for little kids. its pretty violent.

It's PG-13. It has that rating for a reason. People should follow these more often.

:)

EDIT:

I also don't think it's marketed to kids as much as you think it is.

Nenya awakens
11-03-09, 23:40
*sigh* it should not be marketed to young kids because its not intended for little kids. its pretty violent.

I guess its down to personal opinion. i dont see it as being violent at all. i have a 4 year old sister that adores the films. and watching it with her i just cant see how its anything more then an epic fantasy!

being 4 years old i shouldnt let her watch it, but she loves it!

she must take after her older brother and has an eye for the boys :p

Carbonek_0051
11-03-09, 23:40
*sigh* it should not be marketed to young kids because its not intended for little kids. its pretty violent.

A few people get stabbed & killed, so what? Doesn't the dragon in Sleeping Beauty get stabbed & there is blood?

IMO as someone who takes care of 2 children, (I am very overprotective of them) I think you are overreacting. The pirates films while violent at times have a very fantasy feel to them & can be marketed as kids films (which I have never seen it marketed as such). To my awareness they advertised it on the Disney channel warning at the end that it was PG-13 for fantasy violence & some scary images. If they are warning parents what should it matter? I must say if you are that worried about your child then don't let them watch it, it is not your responsiblity what other parents decide to let there kids watch.

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:41
to the three above posts:

let's just agree to disagree. :rolleyes:

no offense guys, because you all do have valid points, but i'm sick of this topic now.

Nenya awakens
11-03-09, 23:42
to the three above posts:

let's just agree to disagree.

no offense guys, because you all do have valid points, but i'm sick of this topic now.

oh! ok!

thought the conversation was getting interesting then :)

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:43
oh! ok!

thought the conversation was getting interesting then :)

i know, lol, i'm sorry, but i have realized that alot of you were right and they were dark to begin with.

i've been talking about this alot these past couple days and now it hurts my brain. :p

ECB
11-03-09, 23:50
to the three above posts:

let's just agree to disagree. :rolleyes:

no offense guys, because you all do have valid points, but i'm sick of this topic now.

Sounds good. :)

Random, but I really like your avatar. :D

violentblossom
11-03-09, 23:51
Sounds good. :)

Random, but I really like your avatar. :D

also random, but thank you. :p i figured i needed something that applied to my name. :jmp:

Nenya awakens
11-03-09, 23:52
i know, lol, i'm sorry, but i have realized that alot of you were right and they were dark to begin with.

i've been talking about this alot these past couple days and now it hurts my brain. :p

I can see why..

it's when you look at the actual stories that disney get there ideas from!

As i said earlier


Rolfe and Pocahontas boarded a ship to return to Virginia. However, the ship had only gone as far as Gravesend on the River Thames when Pocahontas became ill. The nature of the illness is unknown, but since she had been described as sensitive to London's smoky air, pneumonia or tuberculosis are likely, although smallpox has also been suggested. She was taken ashore and died. According to Rolfe, she died saying "all must die, but tis enough that her child liveth.Her funeral took place on March 21, 1617 in the parish of Saint George's, Gravesend. The site of her grave is unknown, but her memory is recorded in Gravesend with a life-size bronze statue at St George's Church.

http://i39.************/nxq1ib.jpg

also, disney girls are like barbie.. perfect in every way..

a thing that girls should not aspire to be. you dont have to be beautifull to be beautifull

aileenwuornos
13-03-09, 03:31
and on that happy note... I love you all very much :hug:
can't we all just hit a bong... I mean ..... get along?
.

Haha I second this motion.
When I was a child, I love Disney. But as I grew up, I realised that it was deeply flawed with the same superstitions, sexiest nonsense and poor plot development that most things in the media fall prey too.
Not to mention the way Disney loves to construct young women in their films, television shows and productions.

Did you know, they made anti-nazi and communist properganda films back in the day?
Not only that but I feel their films are filled with all sorts of racial bias.
Has anyone seen that South Park episode with the Jonas brothers?

Or read this?
http://jezebel.com/5148669/thats-enough-disney-girls
or this
http://jezebel.com/372906/whats-the-allure-of-everything-disney

(please be warned, these links may contain content that will probably offend some of the more conservative forum members, these are FEMINIST critiques)

Tyrannosaurus
13-03-09, 08:57
Bah, Disney has nothing on Bakshi. You guys need to see animated film Wizards. It got away with a PG rating back in 1977, and it was supposed to be for kids. It was about a war between magic and technology in a Post-Apocalyptic future in which a nuclear war (started by terrorists) wiped out most of mankind, while mutants lived the the radioactive lands and schemed against the faeries who dwelled in the good lands. In addition, it also contained:

A lazy hippie-ish old wizard hero who sounds like Peter Falk, smokes cigars, and drinks scotch.

A diaphonously clad female faerie love interest faaaar too young for him.

A villianous sorceror who not only commands demons and spectres straight out of the pits of hell, but uses Nazi propoganda footage as his secret weapon in the war. We actually see the footage.

Prostitute Faeries.

One captive faerie forced to strip for her oppressor's entertainment while chained (we don't see most of this).

The Villian's throne in the middle of an enormous Swastika.

Cute smurf-like characters being killed onscreen, often bloodily.

Numerous bloody battle scenes, in which blood spills, brains are dashed, and people (i.e. elves, faeries) as well as monsters are turned into swiss cheese by machine gun fire.

A mutant two-legged horse gets an arrow between the eyes, which emerges on the other side of its head.

The hero calls his brother a "son of a *****" and shoots him dead with a handgun during the climax. And we were expecting a magical duel between two wizards.

A message that tells us to use the tools of evil against evil, if we must.

And this was one of Bakshi's mildest cartoons. This was when he was actually trying to tone it down and show a little restraint. Wizards was such a badass cartoon. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.

aileenwuornos
13-03-09, 09:20
Bah, Disney has nothing on Bakshi. You guys need to see animated film Wizards. It got away with a PG rating back in 1977, and it was supposed to be for kids. It was about a war between magic and technology in a Post-Apocalyptic future in which a nuclear war (started by terrorists) wiped out most of mankind, while mutants lived the the radioactive lands and schemed against the faeries who dwelled in the good lands. In addition, it also contained:

A lazy hippie-ish old wizard hero who sounds like Peter Falk, smokes cigars, and drinks scotch.

A diaphonously clad female faerie love interest faaaar too young for him.

A villianous sorceror who not only commands demons and spectres straight out of the pits of hell, but uses Nazi propoganda footage as his secret weapon in the war. We actually see the footage.

Prostitute Faeries.

One captive faerie forced to strip for her oppressor's entertainment while chained (we don't see most of this).

The Villian's throne in the middle of an enormous Swastika.

Cute smurf-like characters being killed onscreen, often bloodily.

Numerous bloody battle scenes, in which blood spills, brains are dashed, and people (i.e. elves, faeries) as well as monsters are turned into swiss cheese by machine gun fire.

A mutant two-legged horse gets an arrow between the eyes, which emerges on the other side of its head.

The hero calls his brother a "son of a *****" and shoots him dead with a handgun during the climax. And we were expecting a magical duel between two wizards.

A message that tells us to use the tools of evil against evil, if we must.

And this was one of Bakshi's mildest cartoons. This was when he was actually trying to tone it down and show a little restraint. Wizards was such a badass cartoon. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.

Hahah woah. This sounds like an almost predecessor for South Park hahaha. I'm going to have to check that out.

Lavinder
13-03-09, 10:03
Lmfao, just been researching original fairytales - as an adult I prefer the originals.

Gabi
13-03-09, 16:22
Lmfao, just been researching original fairytales - as an adult I prefer the originals.
I already preferred them as a child.
I remember seeing Walt Disney's "Snow White" for the first time and thinking: "what the heck - this is so wrong!"

Changeling
13-03-09, 17:00
The old classic Disney films had suggestive themes too. The Hunchback of Notre Dame for example - it's basically about some old Christian dude wanting to have sex with a Gypsy. He even had a song sequence about it ('Hellfire').

And Alice in Wonderland - 'Off with his head!' could be compared to 'Snap his neck'.

And the original fairy tales were MUCH darker than what Disney made them out to be. Take Little Red Riding Hood for example - in the proper, original story, the wolf eats the grandmother but leaves a bit of her flesh on a plate and drains a bit of blood into a jug. When Red arrives, she says that she's hungry and thirsty, and she eats the flesh and drinks the blood. And after that, the wolf tells Red to take off all her clothes and lie with him in the bed ("Take off your clothes, come to bed and I shall warm you up... now come and lay beside me!") and that could be considered a sexual theme as well.

Tyrannosaurus
14-03-09, 06:44
Hahah woah. This sounds like an almost predecessor for South Park hahaha. I'm going to have to check that out.

It's nothing like South Park. In fact, I don't think South Park deserves an entry on that list of the best cartoons either. Best comedy, perhaps, but South Park has knowingly terrible animation. Wizards has artistic merit in a visual sense of the word, and real heart and soul. South Park is a scathing political satire bathed in obscenity. Bakshi's movies are nothing like that. They actually have sympathy for their subject, and there's actually passion behind them, not just crudeness and savagery.

Anyway, the enitre movie can be watched at youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1dsnTuBkM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDWSzTMR7Gk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW7_BmMT8r4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIi872gEiNw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VmMES3cdjM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaAzf7rIU-I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utROgJKSmwc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwgQFOEHC0&feature=related

But if you want more outrageous fare, type in "Fritz the Cat", "Heavy Traffic", "Coonskin", or "Hey Good Lookin'" at youtube and you should find those too.