PDA

View Full Version : Garden of Eden (sorta) Found?


silver_wolf
13-03-09, 02:19
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html
Supposedly the greatest archeological discovery...

Nausinous
13-03-09, 02:24
That is an incredible find :eek:

MattTR
13-03-09, 02:27
Wow, that's amazing.. :eek:

I miss seeing stuff like this on tombraiderchronicles.com, you know real life Tomb Raider stuff? :( I guess Justin's been too busy.

But the Garden of Eden? I thought it was a made up story to teach a lesson, at least that's what I've heard. I guess it could in fact be real, that would be highly awesome. :D

violentblossom
13-03-09, 02:28
oh. my. GOD.

that's AMAZING.

Thanks ALOT for this find. Really cool.

spikejones
13-03-09, 02:28
interesting.

you know... those carvings look to me to be better made than some of the other things I have seen. and MUCH better preserved for its supposed age of 13,000 years old. However, I don't know if we can call this the Garden of Eden as depicted in the Bible (where else would you get it from?). Adam and Eve were banished from the garden upon eating the forbidden fruit - and it is my assumption that the ban was held in place for all future generations. Been a while since I read Genesis, but I thought there was something said about the gates being closed forever.:confused:

anyhow... despite Biblical discrepancies - if this is a genuine find then I am truly impressed. :tmb:

Tihocan9
13-03-09, 02:28
Thats pretty incredible considering how old it is, I mean 12,000 years is so old. Whether or not it is the site of Eden I don't know, perhaps it is. But even if it isn't it is a remarkable site all the same.

Draco
13-03-09, 02:34
Looks fake to me.

silver_wolf
13-03-09, 02:36
oh, I'm sure. :rolleyes: it wasn't examined by archeologists or anything...

spikejones
13-03-09, 02:41
^ well... things have been "found" before by people claiming to be experts and made the news and all that good stuff. Only to be found debunked at snopes.com and many other websites. But really... did this find ever make the news back in 1994? Certainly they would have released info about even the first item dug up, before digging up 40 or 50 different blocks that are supposed to be 12 - 13,000 years old. You have to expect skepticism about something so stunning.

Draco
13-03-09, 02:43
oh, I'm sure. :rolleyes: it wasn't examined by archeologists or anything...

Well considering the stones look like sandstone, Id be impressed if they were 12 years old much less 12000.

spikejones
13-03-09, 02:46
something else funny I just thought about... it was found in 1994 right? it is 2009 now. That is 15 years they've been digging and all that they can show for it is 45 stones? Something is a bit off there - I don't think it would really take that long to dig that stuff up and get it into the news.

aileenwuornos
13-03-09, 03:00
I really, really doubt it's the Garden of Eden.
Still a nice archeology find though.

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 03:06
*sighs*

alright,let the nitpicking begin....

Carbon-dating shows that the complex is at least 12,000 years old, maybe even 13,000 years old.

isn't carbon-dating used to date organic materials (such as wood) only?

Nefertiti_89
13-03-09, 03:10
It is certainly an amazing find! :eek: I love it when things like this are found!

But I think we have to be careful, just because we found something that may very well be the garden of eden as described in the bible, we cant go assuming that everything said about it in the bible is true. It doesn't prove the existence of an Adam and Eve, or the serpent in the tree, and it certainly doesnt prove the existence of a God.

*sighs*

alright,let the nitpicking begin....



isn't carbon-dating used to date organic materials (such as wood) only?

Yes C14 dating is only used on organic matter, but this means it could be used to date organic matter found at the site, like animal and plant remains, as well as wood, thus giving a rough age of the site.

spikejones
13-03-09, 03:29
It is certainly an amazing find! :eek: I love it when things like this are found!

But I think we have to be careful, just because we found something that may very well be the garden of eden as described in the bible, we cant go assuming that everything said about it in the bible is true. It doesn't prove the existence of an Adam and Eve, or the serpent in the tree, and it certainly doesnt prove the existence of a God.



Yes C14 dating is only used on organic matter, but this means it could be used to date organic matter found at the site, like animal and plant remains, as well as wood, thus giving a rough age of the site.
well lets assume they carbon dated a piece of wood laying next to one of the stones... that doesn't mean it arrived at the same time the stones did. it could have been there from long before the stone was. I think what they do in carbon dating of fossils and such is that the items are actually permeated over time by organic materials and they take oldest dating they find (it could be permeated hundreds of times over the years actually)

AmericanAssassin
13-03-09, 03:34
That's an amazing discovery. I love archeology. :D

Nefertiti_89
13-03-09, 03:48
well lets assume they carbon dated a piece of wood laying next to one of the stones... that doesn't mean it arrived at the same time the stones did. it could have been there from long before the stone was. I think what they do in carbon dating of fossils and such is that the items are actually permeated over time by organic materials and they take oldest dating they find (it could be permeated hundreds of times over the years actually)

Yes but it would be found in the same strata as the stones, meaning that both the stones and the wood or bone or whatever were deposited into that layer of sediment at the same time, so if you date one, you effectively date both.

C14 usually measures the amount of Carbon 14 left in an organism after death...I used to be able to explain this very well in 11th grade but its not the case anymore, so I turn to how stuff works lolz:

*As soon as a living organism dies, it stops taking in new carbon. The ratio of carbon-12 to carbon-14 at the moment of death is the same as every other living thing, but the carbon-14 decays and is not replaced. The carbon-14 decays with its half-life of 5,700 years, while the amount of carbon-12 remains constant in the sample. By looking at the ratio of carbon-12 to carbon-14 in the sample and comparing it to the ratio in a living organism, it is possible to determine the age of a formerly living thing fairly precisely.

A formula to calculate how old a sample is by carbon-14 dating is:

t = [ ln (Nf/No) / (-0.693) ] x t1/2

where ln is the natural logarithm, Nf/No is the percent of carbon-14 in the sample compared to the amount in living tissue, and t1/2 is the half-life of carbon-14 (5,700 years).

So, if you had a fossil that had 10 percent carbon-14 compared to a living sample, then that fossil would be:

t = [ ln (0.10) / (-0.693) ] x 5,700 years

t = [ (-2.303) / (-0.693) ] x 5,700 years

t = [ 3.323 ] x 5,700 years

t = 18,940 years old

Its a pretty cool way of dating stuff I think :)

Melonie Tomb Raider
13-03-09, 04:15
Looks amazing, but it's probably not the Garden of Eden. :p

Ikas90
13-03-09, 04:23
Looks amazing, but it's probably not the Garden of Eden. :p

I would think so too. :p It probably can't be found. Or it's changed so much that it's not recognisable or that there's no evidence remaining.

M.A.
13-03-09, 04:51
There's no chance in Earth (:p) that could be the Garden of Eden. But the stones are impressive enough on their own. Look at the carvings and the way they are stacked. How the **** did the ancients build them without modern tools? :)

violentblossom
13-03-09, 04:58
There's no chance in Earth (:p) that could be the Garden of Eden. But the stones are impressive enough on their own. Look at the carvings and the way they are stacked. How the **** did the ancients build them without modern tools? :)

i don't think its Eden, either, but its awesome, whatever it is.

Shrantellatessa
13-03-09, 05:02
Amazing, especially the carvings and that reptile sculpture! :eek: But that's not Eden ;)

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 05:05
Yes but it would be found in the same strata as the stones, meaning that both the stones and the wood or bone or whatever were deposited into that layer of sediment at the same time, so if you date one, you effectively date both.

just look at how well preserved those stones look though....the Ancient pyramids of Egypt aren't even half as pretty lookin as those...and they are supposedly 8,000 years younger according to those guys...

rowanlim
13-03-09, 05:19
Wow that's an amazing find. I can't tell if it's the Garden of Eden but the carvings looks so intricate! :tmb:

violentblossom
13-03-09, 05:20
just look at how well preserved those stones look though....the Ancient pyramids of Egypt aren't even half as pretty lookin as those...and they are supposedly 8,000 years younger according to those guys...

the pyramids were also exposed to elements.

QiX
13-03-09, 05:56
the pyramids were also exposed to elements.

Not to mention their original handcrafted covering and most of the artifacts inside them were stolen by tomb raiders (:p) all across the millenia, they are just too big not to attract the human greed. Most of the egyptian art we know nowadays was found in the King's Valley, in very well hidden locations.

This article seems too much religiously biased, this excavation site is well known by now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe or just put 'gobekli tepe' in a google search). It's indeed an awesome archaeological site, but Eden?! Seems that the author is just trying to prove his point, but brings nothing more than speculation.

Nefertiti_89
13-03-09, 06:23
just look at how well preserved those stones look though....the Ancient pyramids of Egypt aren't even half as pretty lookin as those...and they are supposedly 8,000 years younger according to those guys...

Good point but remember they also said that these stones were systematically buried by humans unlike most sites we come across today.

Nannonxyay
13-03-09, 09:26
I highly doubt that it's the Garden Of Eden, (Does that place even exist? Or was it only mentioned in the Bible and not historical documents?) But it's still interesting. Though, it could be fake as someone else pointed out, earlier in thread.

Drone
13-03-09, 09:40
Nice find. But it's not Eden. Because garden can't be archaeological site

Encore
13-03-09, 10:01
interesting.

you know... those carvings look to me to be better made than some of the other things I have seen. and MUCH better preserved for its supposed age of 13,000 years old. However, I don't know if we can call this the Garden of Eden as depicted in the Bible (where else would you get it from?). Adam and Eve were banished from the garden upon eating the forbidden fruit - and it is my assumption that the ban was held in place for all future generations. Been a while since I read Genesis, but I thought there was something said about the gates being closed forever.:confused:

anyhow... despite Biblical discrepancies - if this is a genuine find then I am truly impressed. :tmb:

It is very natural that a Bible story (metaphorical, made in order to teach a lesson) was nevertheless inspired by a true location.

Kiss-Bite
13-03-09, 10:21
How fascinating!:cln:

adventurerLara
13-03-09, 11:31
whether this is real or not it would refuel the science vs religion debate about how the world began.

MiCkiZ88
13-03-09, 12:33
Impressive find, thanks for sharing! :tmb: Have my doubts, not about it being genuine, but the Garden being in Turkey. I thought it was supposed to be to the east from the med sea area, but.. who knows?

violentblossom
13-03-09, 13:17
whether this is real or not it would refuel the science vs religion debate about how the world began.

yep.

i personally lead towards science, though.

the bible must have gone on some truth... i could believe the garden existed.. i mean, just look at how lush and amazing Madagascar used to be.

godmodder
13-03-09, 13:44
I'm very skeptic. No doubt this is an important archaeological site, but from what I read there is no actual evidence at all that is is the Garden of Eden.

whether this is real or not it would refuel the science vs religion debate about how the world began.

I never knew there was a debate. For me there isn't.
Religion and science are two different things. They aren't against eachother nor do they support eachother. They can coexist, but should not be intermixed.

Jeroen

violentblossom
13-03-09, 14:13
I'm very skeptic. No doubt this is an important archaeological site, but from what I read there is no actual evidence at all that is is the Garden of Eden.



I never knew there was a debate. For me there isn't.
Religion and science are two different things. They aren't against eachother nor do they support eachother. They can coexist, but should not be intermixed.

Jeroen

well, they can coincide with alot of things, but obviously, this planet cound only be created in one way.. was is God or science? i think that's the biggest issue as far as this goes.

larafan25
13-03-09, 14:45
h,mm.... what makes them think it IS the garden of Eden???????????

if so this is very interesting and exciting:)

violentblossom
13-03-09, 14:55
h,mm.... what makes them think it IS the garden of Eden???????????

if so this is very interesting and exciting:)

it says that they think that this place was Eden because alot of the facts about this place correlate with where biblical Eden supposedly was.

spikejones
13-03-09, 15:11
It is very natural that a Bible story (metaphorical, made in order to teach a lesson) was nevertheless inspired by a true location.
true... but I wouldn't outright call it "garden of eden"

anyhow... something in that article stuck with me. the part about having found blood stained skulls and such. correct me if I am wrong here, but if the skulls/skeletons are from 10,000 BC - the original bones would not be intact anymore, nor would the blood for that matter. Would the bones not have decayed over the centuries and the cavities left by them be filled in by other substances? So if you have a skeletal fossil, its actually just a rock and not the actual item... there wouldn't be any bones or blood to speak of.


A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.
No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress.
Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel.
Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.
These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise. So they sought to propitiate the angry heavens.
This savagery may, indeed, hold the key to one final, bewildering mystery. The astonishing stones and friezes of Gobekli Tepe are preserved intact for a bizarre reason.
Long ago, the site was deliberately and systematically buried in a feat of labour every bit as remarkable as the stone carvings.


It says they were found in another area, but doesn't say precisely how old they are supposed to have been - but the article implies they are from the same period.

Trinity34
13-03-09, 15:28
No doubt this is an important archaeological site, but from what I read there is no actual evidence at all that is is the Garden of Eden.



This is just a general question for all.... what would be some evidence of any place being the actual Garden of Eden? A fossilised apple tree? :) Personally I don't know of anything marking it to be the garden except the exact location if there is one.

Twiin
13-03-09, 15:31
Perhaps not the Garden of Eden; but a symbol or a region which inspired the Genesis myth.

Very, very interesting - might have to pick up the book!

larson n natla
13-03-09, 15:47
Yeah thats nice but garden of eden, no :p those stones were obviously not placed there 12,000 years ago because they would have eroded far worse than what the picture shows and I doubt there even over a 100 years old :( but thats just me Im probably wrong :ton:

violentblossom
13-03-09, 15:48
Yeah thats nice but garden of eden, no :p those stones were obviously not placed there 12,000 years ago because they would have eroded far worse than what the picture shows and I doubt there even over a 100 years old :( but thats just me Im probably wrong :ton:

i dont think they would have eroded if they were that heavy and under all that dirt.

seems like it was all packed pretty tight, too.

larson n natla
13-03-09, 15:50
i dont think they would have eroded if they were that heavy and under all that dirt.

seems like it was all packed pretty tight, too.

They weren't under there to begin with though its not like a bunch of dirt just fell from the skies :o ah forget it I think I'm wrong :p

violentblossom
13-03-09, 15:51
They weren't under there to begin with though its not like a bunch of dirt just fell from the skies :o ah forget it I think I'm wrong :p

lol, i guess you didnt read the whole thing, then? :p

they said that this place was purposely and systematically buried by whoever built it..

spikejones
13-03-09, 16:08
well... God did banish them from the garden and sealed the gates... ;)

violentblossom
13-03-09, 16:10
well... God did banish them from the garden and sealed the gates... ;)

or so the ancients said... maybe they are right... i dont believe all the religious hoopla, but i could see that it was all based on real stuff.

spikejones
13-03-09, 16:16
if the hoopla is real...
an act of god may not be something so bizarre as dirt falling from the sky - but it could very well have been a landslide. There could have been a hill or something that was eroded by years of rain until at one point it just collapsed onto the stones - somehow with everything staying very well intact.

but there's just some things about this whole deal that just don't add up for me. and I'm not talking about the Biblical relationship - I'm talking about the validity of the whole dig. It just looks way too well preserved even for being buried under dirt for 12 thousand years. and the blood stained skulls... I'm not buying that bit at all.

violentblossom
13-03-09, 16:18
oh, i don't buy the blood bit, eiether. maybe this article just likes to spice things up?

spikejones
13-03-09, 16:34
perhaps...

but a part of me wonders if this whole dig is a farce?

Punaxe
13-03-09, 16:41
Hmm, Google Scholar has no results for "Gobleki Tepe"... Does it not index archaeological journals?

tampi
13-03-09, 17:00
5.3 version

This looks like an animal zoo. These stones mark the animals are caged. Perhaps it was a "stock" of animals, or a Noah's ark where all the animals had been cataloged.:cln:
EDIT: We do not know whether they were covered with wooden cages where animals were captured.
The stones could be marked with drawings what kind of animal were caged and what was their food.

Punaxe
13-03-09, 17:04
^ I believe they said there also were humans illustrated on the stones... You think they kept humans as well?

tampi
13-03-09, 17:08
^ I believe they said there also were humans illustrated on the stones... You think they kept humans as well?

mmmm....I could not read it.
Perhaps it meant that humans could eat that kind of animal. :cool::D

Punaxe
13-03-09, 17:09
5.4: A supermarket? :D

nicola1986
13-03-09, 17:12
This is amazing, is it real? 'Cos if it is, it's just :eek:

tampi
13-03-09, 17:16
5.4: A supermarket? :D

Yes! :D

Our Queen had the opportunity to open two days ago a letter written 4000 years ago found in Mesopotamia.
Was written on clay in cuneiform texts.
The letter was from one person to another (of course:p) talking about buying a donkey that they had spoken earlier.

The letter ends: " May the gods keep you many years of life".

:)

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 17:17
5.3 version

This looks like an animal zoo. These stones mark the animals are caged. Perhaps it was a "stock" of animals, or a Noah's ark where all the animals had been cataloged.:cln:
EDIT: We do not know whether they were covered with wooden cages where animals were captured.
The stones could be marked with drawings what kind of animal were caged and what was their food.

LOOOL...sorta looks like an outdoor "Palace midas" doesn't it?:D

tampi
13-03-09, 17:22
LOOOL...sorta looks like an outdoor "Palace midas" doesn't it?:D

This is very cool!!!
Is like he says.... "WHAT HAPPEN, I WAS!!!" :D:D

http://i39.************/9i5w8z.jpg

Drone
13-03-09, 17:31
lol look at the attitude of that dude

*laralover*
13-03-09, 17:40
:vlol:

This is really interesting :D. I doubt its the garden of eden though.

QiX
13-03-09, 17:55
People simply can't accept 'neolithic ruins' as an explanation, someone needed to come out with this biblical theory. Let's hope the site is not ruined by a creationist theme park within one year :p

"And here come the bloody tourists to spoil it all..."

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 18:03
while this might be an interesting find,I highly doubt it's the Garden of Eden...

...if you guys want to read about something that will truly boggle your minds,do a google search on "the money pit";);):D

Punaxe
13-03-09, 18:34
Uhh, the movie?

Also, nobody is saying this is the garden of Eden, just that the story of it may well be based on this location.

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 18:39
Uhh, the movie?

Also, nobody is saying this is the garden of Eden, just that the story of it may well be based on this location.

lol wtf?:o

ok...put in "oak island" instead...it should work now..:p

Larapink
13-03-09, 18:40
Amazing! :eek:


The title of this thread reminds me of that song, I forgot who it's by.. :p

Drone
13-03-09, 18:41
The title of this thread reminds me of that song, I forgot who it's by.. :p

Sarah Brightman

Punaxe
13-03-09, 18:45
lol wtf?:o

ok...put in "oak island" instead...it should work now..:p

Ohh, that thing. There's been a thread about it on here once... I'm with the critics. :p

rickybazire
13-03-09, 18:46
Wow...hopefully all that is true and not fake.

CerebralAssassin
13-03-09, 18:56
Ohh, that thing. There's been a thread about it on here once... I'm with the critics. :p

lmao...I was the one that made that thread remember?:p

or was there another one that I missed?:o

Sir Croft
13-03-09, 18:58
I don't think this could be Eden, but it's very interesting. And if it is actually the Garden of Eden, then I'll be really, really amazed.

Joely-Moley
13-03-09, 19:07
Wow, that's incredible. I wish I could stumble upon something amazing like that.

Mona Sax
13-03-09, 19:20
lol, i guess you didnt read the whole thing, then? :p

they said that this place was purposely and systematically buried by whoever built it..
4,000-5,000 years after it was built, according to the article. ;)

-OllieCroft-
13-03-09, 20:48
this remind me of a film she made for us, hmm...

violentblossom
13-03-09, 20:49
4,000-5,000 years after it was built, according to the article. ;)

oh. lol. my brain lost that bit. >.<

argh.

i'm 22 and already getting Alzheimer's.

Catapharact
13-03-09, 20:56
oh, I'm sure. :rolleyes: it wasn't examined by archeologists or anything...

And I am sure archeologists don't lie... Right?

Perhaps you might wanna read this:

http://www.unmuseum.org/troy.htm

Punaxe
13-03-09, 21:07
And I am sure archeologists don't lie... Right?

Perhaps you might wanna read this:

http://www.unmuseum.org/troy.htm

That's not just all about his attributing that mask to Agamemnon, is it? Because I heard that was just his first intuitive brain wave as it was such a beautiful piece. Seems forgivable.

Catapharact
13-03-09, 21:10
That's not just all about his attributing that mask to Agamemnon, is it? Because I heard that was just his first intuitive brain wave as it was such a beautiful piece. Seems forgivable.

Nope; More like his blatent attempt at fowarding Jewelry he bought at a local Turkish bazar as that of which belonging to Helen of Troy... And keep on reading; There is more stuff.