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Catapharact
17-03-09, 03:49
Well most people just regard runway models as nothing more then "walking coat hangers" (which unfortunately isn't far off from the truth.) It seems that Japan wants to flick off the human factor in modeling all-togather.

Girl Android Model. (http://www.break.com/index/girl-robot-models-in-japan.html)

laralives
17-03-09, 03:54
o.O Freaky!

Lenochka
17-03-09, 04:24
Creepy O.o Especially how she blinks...

Plus this robot can't strut down the runway like a model xD she just kind of wobbles

Immortalis08
17-03-09, 04:32
Can you imagine how many models will be out of a job? What is the point of having high maintenance live models with imperfections when one can create a perfect looking android?

However, I do think it is innovative. Mainly because one of my favorite main characters happens to be an android.

takamotosan
17-03-09, 04:32
*****, your walk is NOT fierce

:ohn:

Immortalis08
17-03-09, 04:33
*****, your walk is NOT fierce

:ohn:

:vlol: However, I am assuming this is a work in progress. Once they are perfected even Tyra will be afraid.

Draco
17-03-09, 05:12
Cool, someday the only way to tell who is human is by walking around with an EMP emitting device.

drakl0r
17-03-09, 06:54
Plain creepy, i think...

rowanlim
17-03-09, 06:57
*shudder*

Creepy. Give me Adriana Lima any day :D

Ilves
17-03-09, 09:36
Creepy (and pointless) as hell.

Androids are the undoing of the human race!

Notice how it's always men creating artificial women.

Men in search of the physically flawless, barren, soulless, servatile, will-less woman are doing nothing more than compensating for their own lack of healthy masculinity.

Note that educated men believe it to be completely possible (and desirable) to have meaningful relationships with artificial intelligence.

Don’t believe me? Read into transhumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism)and posthumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman#Posthuman_in_Posthumanism). These are the most creepy contemporary schools of thought that I’ve come across.
In the coming years you’ll hearing more from the likes of Ray Kurtzweil (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2942312062526530860&ei=J32_Sav1HsiK-Qbjxu3CAQ&q=kurzweil) (< strongly recommend) and Nick Bohstrom.

Crazy, atheist, humorless, hyper intelligent, influential, dangerous. Take heed!

EDIT: If you can show me one attractive, athletic, virile transhumanist thinker, you get a cookie and I'll eat my words. :D

Catapharact
17-03-09, 09:46
EDIT: If you can show me one attractive, athletic, virile transhumanist thinker, you get a cookie and I'll eat my words. :D

Famous? Or him/her being just being your average Joe/Jane ;)?

EDIT:

Give me Adriana Lima any day :D

Not the place to start that conversation sweets :p. You already know my opinion on that walking coat hanger :p.

Alex Fly
17-03-09, 09:52
My my my... This is incredible ! :eek:

Ilves
17-03-09, 09:55
Famous? Or him/her being just being your average Joe/Jane ;)?

More than average. A transhumanist bigwig. An influential ideologue, publicist, preferably with a scientific background.


...

Should I start baking cookies? http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7184/faceworriedge4.gif

Catapharact
17-03-09, 09:58
Should I start baking cookies? http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7184/faceworriedge4.gif

Nope you can save that dough for a more deserving crowd; Bratty school children Lol!

The example I was going give is that of my friend. Details? Well we will skip out on those since you want a bigwig :p.

interstellardave
17-03-09, 10:07
EDIT: If you can show me one attractive, athletic, virile transhumanist thinker, you get a cookie and I'll eat my words. :D

You've just made the case for why they would want a robotic companion! If they are unattractive, unathletic and feeble (or if most women would feel as you do about them) what options do they have?! :p

Catapharact
17-03-09, 10:09
You've just made the case for why they would want a robotic companion! If they are unattractive, unathletic and feeble (or if most women would feel as you do about them) what options do they have?! :p


Dave gets hit with a "You're an insensitive shallow *&$%!" flame post in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...

Andromeda66
17-03-09, 10:10
Thats rather...unimpressive. I can NOT imagine models walking down the ramp with that gait. And she has no curves...Well not the aesthetically pleasing ones anyway.

Ilves
17-03-09, 10:13
You've just made the case for why they would want a robotic companion! If they are unattractive, unathletic and feeble (or if most women would feel as you do about them) what options do they have?! :p

Exactly. To put it simply, androids are for darwinistic losers. That's why I call transhumanism and everything associated with it a cult of death. :tea:

And strangely in this field, they get a disproportionate amount of attention and funding. I'm afraid this school of thought is going to be (or already is) the driving force of technological and societal "progress" in the next few decades.

(Guess who called Kurzweil his most inspirational writer? Bill Gates. Go figure. :p)

EDIT: I call these gents "losers" in an psycho analytical sense only. Their intelligence and recourcefulness grant them due success in our society. But at the core, particularly in their quest for bodily improvement, their view of women and relationships, and their view of the human condition as a malfunction they are motivated by self hatred. So there. :)

interstellardave
17-03-09, 10:15
Dave gets hit with a "You're an insensitive shallow *&$%!" flame post in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...

Why? I'm quoting insensitive remarks made by someone else--which ironically, as I pointed out, help make their case for other-than-human companionship. I don't endorse those remarks myself, as I don't even know a single person involved in such movements!

Catapharact
17-03-09, 10:16
Why? I'm quoting insensitive remarks made by someone else--which ironically, as I pointed out, help make their case for other-than-human companionship.


Hence it was a joke ment to stray off the "overtly sensitive" crowd away from this given thread ;).

Comeon Dave! Work with me here...


(Guess who called Kurzweil his most inspirational writer? Bill Gates. Go figure. :p)

Well given the fact that the whole "self awareness" conceptual POV begain with Decartes' assertion of deception and the disposition of reality around us, I am not surprised that less philosophically enlightened beings would push for a complete disassosiation with conceptual reality all togather.

MMORPG game addicts would be a perfect example of that.

interstellardave
17-03-09, 10:20
Hence it was a joke ment to stray off the "overtly sensitive" crowd away from this given thread ;).

Comeon Dave! Work with me here...

Oh! Well, it's early in the morning here... I'm not fully up to speed. :o

Ilves
17-03-09, 10:24
Well given the fact that the whole "self awareness" conceptual POV begain with Decartes' assertion of deception and the disposition of reality around us, I am not surprised that less philosophically enlightened beings would push for a complete disassosiation with conceptual reality all togather.


Cutely put. And is this desirable, yes or no? I vote no.

EDIT: And of course proponents of the transhumanist position would consider their opponents 'philosophically less enlightened.' :)

All my ramblings so far were to point out the escapist and self loathing facet of all things transhumanist. The MMORPG example is very fitting. Escaping one's mundane life and physical form.

Bostrom actually thinks we're living in a giant VR simulation, therefor our actions in this life have no real consequences. The man is a highly esteemed Oxford scholar, for crying out loud.

TombRaiderLover
17-03-09, 14:22
I want one.

Punaxe
17-03-09, 15:07
Cutely put. And is this desirable, yes or no? I vote no.

However this is in a way something medical doctors have been doing for centuries: curing illnesses, repairing defects and preventing them from happening. Where is it that you would draw the line, and why?

violentblossom
17-03-09, 15:11
i vote no as well.

that robot is creepy.. and the waddle walk is definately not perfection.

Lara's Nemesis
17-03-09, 15:24
To be fair the android had a better personality than Naomi Campbell.


Pretty scary to think where this kind of technology will take us in the future.

irjudd
17-03-09, 15:26
Alright, where do you plug the power cable in? :cln:

violentblossom
17-03-09, 15:28
To be fair the android had a better personality than Naomi Campbell.


Pretty scary to think where this kind of technology will take us in the future.

:vlol:

Ilves
17-03-09, 15:35
However this is in a way something medical doctors have been doing for centuries: curing illnesses, repairing defects and preventing them from happening. Where is it that you would draw the line, and why?

In the transhumanist view, ageing is a disease. Death is a malfunction. They are actively working to overcome these 'defects'.

They recognize that if these aspects of human life are 'corregible', then there are no limits to the alteration that man should undergo to 'improve' himself.

Transhumanism goes way deeper than 'fixing the flaws'. There is a religious aspect to it. It projects that mankind in the distand future will look nothing like what we are today, and this is in their eyes desirable. You could call these aspects nazi-like at best, luciferian at worst.

I have nothing against idealists and people working for the 'betterment of mankind'. I'm saying the archetypical transhumanist is driven by a male psychology of weakness and self hatred, and the movements leading figures are not people that I would entrust the future of mankind to.

I wish I could put it more eloquently. :p

tampi
17-03-09, 15:44
I saw on the news today. This really does start to resemble a robot and a person.
Machismo is again shown in the more technical and scientific aspects of being human. We are incorrigible. :p

I wonder why it always goes so servile (with knees bent).. Unable to play the equilibrium with the articulation in the ankles? :confused:
This demonstrates the power that has the Achilles tendon and all the muscles of the foot in a human being.:cool:

Sir Croft
17-03-09, 15:48
That's freaky!

*****, your walk is NOT fierce

:ohn:

:vlol:

Punaxe
17-03-09, 15:56
In the transhumanist view, ageing is a disease. Death is a malfunction. They are actively working to overcome these 'defects'.

They recognize that if these aspects of human life are 'corregible', then there are no limits to the alteration that man should undergo to 'improve' himself.

Transhumanism goes way deeper than 'fixing the flaws'. There is a religious aspect to it. It projects that mankind in the distand future will look nothing like what we are today, and this is in their eyes desirable. You could call these aspects nazi-like at best, luciferian at worst.

I have nothing against idealists and people working for the 'betterment of mankind'. I'm saying the archetypical transhumanist is driven by a male psychology of weakness and self hatred, and the movements leading figures are not people that I would entrust the future of mankind to.

I wish I could put it more eloquently. :p

Aspects of self-hatred and religion seem your own projection onto the whole thing. Unless you can prove that this is the case for all of its followers, you shouldn't present it as though it is.

To me, the sole topic is simply human improvement through science and technology. That is their goal, and I can't see how their reasons and motives could make a big difference in their work towards that goal and as such "the future of mankind".

Humans have always wanted to improve themselves, and have developed very successful methods to do so over the years. Lifespan has been on the rise and this trend has brought propserity, why should we not continue to try to the extend it? We have always been working on tools to help us improve in any way possible.

I would say the burden is on you to explain why we should keep from progressing as we have done all along.

tampi
17-03-09, 16:01
If we mix this with religion, appears the film IA from Spielberg.

I see one of them in a space ship looking for life..... What do say the aliens if they find it?????:whi:

interstellardave
17-03-09, 16:05
Transhumanism goes way deeper than 'fixing the flaws'. There is a religious aspect to it. It projects that mankind in the distand future will look nothing like what we are today, and this is in their eyes desirable. You could call these aspects nazi-like at best, luciferian at worst.

Mankind, if given time enough on the planet (or wherever), will change dramatically between now and the distant future. Mankind has changed, in some ways, even within recorded history. Life always evolves for the better--until a large enough asteroid hits and maybe a basalt flow eruption occurs afterwards and, next thing you know, it's bye-bye Mankind, and the meek will inherit the Earth--and their time to shine and branch off into new evolutionary forms will arrive.

Lenochka
17-03-09, 16:08
To be fair the android had a better personality than Naomi Campbell.




And chances are she wont throw a phone at you lmao

]{eith
17-03-09, 16:11
It's a great feat of engineering but I don't think it's quite ready for the runway. Now when they make a robot that can throw temper tantrums, survive on popcorn and evian and put on a false ghetto or British accent, then we'll see.

young Lara Croft
17-03-09, 16:13
AWESOME! Soon Ghost in the Shell will be no longer sci fi !

laralover_07
17-03-09, 16:27
Amazing. I don't like how the knees need to be bent to keep balance, but I'd rather have androids modeling than unhealthy, size zero girls.

Ilves
17-03-09, 16:36
I would say the burden is on you to explain why we should keep from progressing as we have done all along.

First of all it is important to recognize transhumanism as a movement autonomous from technological advancement.

Counting the blessings of modern medicine/technology does not make you a transhumanist. An extended lifespan does not make you posthuman.

The point of transhumanism is transformation beyond all recognition.
It employs technology to achieve its ends, but its driving philosophy can be called religious in the sense that it has a very specific view on mankind and its role in creation.
Familiarize yourself with their discourse and you will easily pick up on the metaphysical overtones.

I don't recall having said I oppose progress. I argue that the transhumanist view is a perversion, caricature if you will of progress.

Aspects of self-hatred and religion seem your own projection onto the whole thing. Unless you can prove that this is the case for all of its followers, you shouldn't present it as though it is.

As for generalization: I think I've made enough effort in my posts to separate specific accusations (Kurzweil/Bostrom) from generalization ('the archetypical transhumanist').

And adressing projection: I argue, granted, based on personal observation and interpretation, that there is a fundamental unhappiness in the person that calls the human condition a defect. I emphazise the male-inferiority-complex aspect only because 1) men seem overrepresented in the transhumanist ranks, and 2) I have yet to come across the female scientist poised on creating the physically perfect, obedient male android.
The narrative seems to be inherent to the male psyche:


From wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_(mythology))

"In Ovid's narrative, Pygmalion was a Cypriot sculptor who carved a woman out of ivory. According to Ovid, after seeing the Propoetides prostituting themselves, he is 'not interested in women', but his statue is so realistic that he falls in love with it."


This runway android is just the 21th century version of Pygmalion. ;)

Lemmie
17-03-09, 16:41
Her height and the fact that she keeps opening her mouth scares me.

I wouldn't go to a fashion show with robots as models.

EDIT: However far away fashion models are from real-sized women who would buy the clothes, aren't robots even further from reality?

Punaxe
17-03-09, 16:47
Well Ilves if it is as you say I would probably agree, and even though you clearly know more about than I do, I'm just not convinced that what you say is indeed fact, but I'd have to delve into it myself to form a substantiated opinion so I'll just leave it at this.

One thing though, that shouldn't take too much trouble:
(...) The point of transhumanism is transformation beyond all recognition. (...)
Can you give me a source that verifies this as a fact?

Encore
17-03-09, 17:00
Well most people just regard runway models as nothing more then "walking coat hangers" (which unfortunately isn't far off from the truth.) It seems that Japan wants to flick off the human factor in modeling all-togather.

Girl Android Model. (http://www.break.com/index/girl-robot-models-in-japan.html)

If they manage to make a robot model with a decent human figure that allows for the clothes to be exposed properly, then I can't see what's the problem.

Ilves
17-03-09, 17:01
The wiki article on Transhumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism)covers many stances, I highly reccommend it.

For scientific papers and the likes (inteviews with proponents) go here: http://www.singinst.org/

Doesn't get more hardcore than that.



Can you give me a source that verifies this as a fact?

It is a logical outcome more than a mission statement. But this whould give you an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman

Hang on while I rummage through my bookmarks... :P

From here (http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/more/transhumanist-values/):

A more radical kind of upgrade might be possible if we suppose a computational view of the mind. It may then be possible to upload a human mind to a computer, by replicating in silico the detailed computational processes that would normally take place in a particular human brain.[4] Being an upload would have many potential advantages, such as the ability to make back-up copies of oneself (favorably impacting on one’s life-expectancy) and the ability to transmit oneself as information at the speed of light. Uploads might live either in virtual reality or directly in physical reality by controlling a robot proxy.

Sensory modalities, special faculties and sensibilities. The current human sensory modalities are not the only possible ones, and they are certainly not as highly developed as they could be. Some animals have sonar, magnetic orientation, or sensors for electricity and vibration; many have a much keener sense of smell, sharper eyesight, etc. The range of possible sensory modalities is not limited to those we find in the animal kingdom. There is no fundamental block to adding say a capacity to see infrared radiation or to perceive radio signals and perhaps to add some kind of telepathic sense by augmenting our brains with suitably interfaced radio transmitters.

Humans also enjoy a variety of special faculties, such as appreciation of music and a sense of humor, and sensibilities such as the capacity for sexual arousal in response to erotic stimuli. Again, there is no reason to think that what we have exhausts the range of the possible, and we can certainly imagine higher levels of sensitivity and responsiveness.

---

We can overcome many of our biological limitations. It is possible that there are some limitations that are impossible for us to transcend, not only because of technological difficulties but on metaphysical grounds. Depending on what our views are about what constitutes personal identity, it could be that certain modes of being, while possible, are not possible for us, because any being of such a kind would be so different from us that they could not be us. Concerns of this kind are familiar from theological discussions of the afterlife. In Christian theology, some souls will be allowed by God to go to heaven after their time as corporal creatures is over. Before being admitted to heaven, the souls would undergo a purification process in which they would lose many of their previous bodily attributes. Skeptics may doubt that the resulting minds would be sufficiently similar to our current minds for it to be possible for them to be the same person. A similar predicament arises within transhumanism: if the mode of being of a posthuman being is radically different from that of a human being, then we may doubt whether a posthuman being could be the same person as a human being, even if the posthuman being originated from a human being.




Personally I don't believe this is feasible ever, but I do believe that transhumanist seriously drool over the idea.

Small selection:

Bostrom speaks: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/nick_bostrom_on_our_biggest_problems.html
Transhumanist definition: http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/more/transhumanist-values/
Small insight into the world of the transhumanist: http://www.kurzweilai.net/

jackles
17-03-09, 17:02
Euuuw it walks like it is wearing a nappy.


I was gong to say something about how the face is eerily immobile..and then I realised that with the amount of botox some women have stuck in their faces then that probably is realistic.

Biddy
17-03-09, 17:34
I chose plain creepy, but I'd swap them any day for the stick thin ones hobbling around in 6-inches.

interstellardave
17-03-09, 18:01
The idea of human minds being imprinted (or uploaded) into computer/robot surragettes is not at all palatable to me. Nor is the idea of cybernetic implants to "enhance" our abilities... I realize such things could (and do right now, in some cases) help those who have lost abilities to regain them, and that's a fuzzy issue... but enhancing ones' natural normal abilities--or adding new ones--just doesn't sit right with me.

People grow just as much based on what they cannot do as on what they can do. To go to such extreme lengths to surpass ones' natural state like this is arrogant... and scary, IMO.

Punaxe
17-03-09, 18:25
Technology has pretty much always served as extension of our own capabilities. I think with the capabilities of today's technology it is only logical to think about inclusion of such extensions into our own bodies. Pursuing this, for whatever reason, will undoubtedly bring great technological advances, for example those that can be used for purposes such as interstellardave mentioned.
And indeed, they can also be used purely for the augmentation of our current selves. This hits many different and very difficult issues, but still, from a technological point of view, it is only logical to imagine it. I can't blame people for pursuing this very real side of technology, nor for desiring such augmentation.

*laralover*
17-03-09, 18:40
This is weird...Models should stay models...Human :p

Candee Sparks
17-03-09, 18:41
One word: No.

angelfaithrox
17-03-09, 18:42
That is really creepy. Robots freak me out as it is, just think they are going to go crazy and kill us all.
I know, I know, I watch too many films.

Reggie
17-03-09, 18:48
I'm not adding much to the conversation but for what its worth, I think a real catwalk model beats a fake/android one anyday. The bottom line is that people won't respond to robots in the same way as to a real person and thus the desired effect (selling your clothes by having an attractive wearer) won't happen if its a robot. Moreover, there are so many signals a real life model can send out that a robot can't and this is vital when trying to put across something.

Its not surprising I take this attitude because I'm quite conservative about the technology-human blur. I'm even skeptical of people who spend all their time on second life. I like knowing there is a very real boundry between what is organic and true i.e. human beings and offline stuff and then robots, technology etc and online stuff. When any of that begins to blend, I'm wary. That's why I had absolutely NO QUALMS about cutting myself off from the net for over 6 months. I felt a line was being crossed and I took a step back. This is an example of why I might be also wary of this development for modelling. I can at least take comfort in the fact that this will never catch on for said reasons above (lack of usefulness in reality).

toxicraider
17-03-09, 18:53
The face almost looks realistic, except for the creepy expressions, but the walk and height is just wrong - scary.

badboy70
17-03-09, 18:54
I'd love to see that fall down a catwalk :p
"ErRoRZ !"
*big explosion*

Ilves
17-03-09, 19:11
The idea of human minds being imprinted (or uploaded) into computer/robot surragettes is not at all palatable to me.

I agree. That whole idea is based on the view that the human body is just an intricate machine, and the mind 'software'. Good luck with that, science.

I can't blame people for pursuing this very real side of technology, nor for desiring such augmentation.

Sounds so very reasonable. :) It's also healthy to constantly ask what motivates those desires when they go beyond healing/restoring, particularly as the augmentations grow more and more extravagant, and it's my belief that the need to mutate/mutilate the human in its pure form is a sign of a sick spirit. But I repeat myself. :D

Nausinous
17-03-09, 19:54
Androids are the undoing of the human race!

I hate robots, if we continue to develop them they will take away all our work (leaving countless unemployed) and we will become even more fat and lazy. That is why I have quoted Ilves because its the truth unless we stop.

oocladableeblah
17-03-09, 19:57
omg that is so creepy I am gonna have nightmares (no not really) :p
I so wouldn't want one of those in my house.

Larapink
18-03-09, 00:44
That is some creepy ****! :eek:!

voltz
18-03-09, 00:58
Just think, Snatcher could become a reality. In fact, it'd be kinda cool to read about some of these being used for excort services when they commit gruesome murders on their clients and run around wearing their skins while imitating them.

I love this sci-fi stuff! :D

EmeraldFields
18-03-09, 01:18
Yikes! I would not want one of these!:eek:

AmericanAssassin
18-03-09, 01:19
I wouldn't say they're "creepy," but they are very very very odd. :p

erosan
18-03-09, 03:43
This is like Chobits gone wrong...

QiX
18-03-09, 10:24
I don't see a brilliant future for it in the catwalks. Actually it is a very good robot design, if they replace the head for a toaster :p

I still prefer Asimo... and Aibo :D

IceColdLaraCroft
21-03-09, 20:40
yay we can all be gay now and just use women robots to procreate

aileenwuornos
23-03-09, 13:24
Very. Very. Creepy.
It'll end up like Ian Holm in Alien

Tonyrobinson
23-03-09, 15:31
I feel a new thunderbrids remake coming on...

Chocola teapot
23-03-09, 16:55
How worrysome.