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vmj51 :|
08-04-09, 01:16
Tomb Raider Underworld promised to give players the definite Tomb Raider experience, with stunning graphics, movements and realism.

I think I only got half the promise.

Here are the "realistic things" that TRU had:
Motion Captured movements
Being able to select a few outfits each level
Treasure Hunt mode (after you finish the game)
Environments are alive
The game's physics
etc.

The problem is:
Lara moves too fast. She is almost hyper-active :(
The animations are indeed motion captured but do you actually think a human would be able to do that so fast? I mean, Lara is indeed a human, a heroine but it doesn't mean that you can swim so fast underwater (even if you're not using the sprint button), traverse ledges as if she has no weight, and more.

The treasure hunt was realistic, but it wasn't what I wanted.
I wanted to replay levels, but not with the puzzles solved! :(
Again TRU had so many good stuff in the wrong places.

"Explore everything, stop at nothing"???
Does anybody believe that TRU gave players the option to explore almost all, if not all the environments??
The environments are so big yet I feel it's so linear. Multiple paths??
It was good but you really have to go through most of these paths to accomplish a task.
There are so many invisible walls.

In the prologue level you wear the casual outfit.
And when you play the manor (before it burns) you get to choose between 3 outfits? What happens to the "present" part then? In the prologue you're wearing the casual outfit, and when you play it again you can wear the Jungle shorts outfit? Realistic?

How about having the option to wear the swimsuit in the arctic sea?
Her ass will freeze to death! LOL.
(At least include the option to wear the swimsuit or any other outfit after the game is finished)

Then again, here are the unrealistic things that I wish would be still included in TRU:

Wearing any outfits in any level
Replay levels like Legend/Anniversary
Option to watch the cutscenes unlocked

I hope the Eidos and Crystal Dynamics will listen to its fans first before making all those promises and features!
:)

Helegad
08-04-09, 01:23
Would you rather Lara moves like a 100 year old woman with arthritis in every limb?

Saphyre
08-04-09, 01:24
I'd rather her move at the same pace as in the classics tbh. Not to sound like a classics fanboy, but that pace was more realistic and she wasn't even mo-capped there.

larafan25
08-04-09, 01:28
I'd rather her move like she did in anniversary,the animations were greate:)

anyways,I am sick of the unrealistic facial expressions,in hell when lara through her mother off the edge and fell to the ground looking like she was going to dry...ya you know it?:)

it looked like she was taking a crap:)

we need better realistic character models:)

vmj51 :|
08-04-09, 01:29
Would you rather Lara moves like a 100 year old woman with arthritis in every limb?

Nope but the Lara you are describing isn't the classic ones either.
I preferred the classic moves (even AOD, the best)

vmj51 :|
08-04-09, 01:30
I'd rather her move like she did in anniversary,the animations were greate:)

anyways,I am sick of the unrealistic facial expressions,in hell when lara through her mother off the edge and fell to the ground looking like she was going to dry...ya you know it?:)

it looked like she was taking a crap:)

we need better realistic character models:)

Yes. AND we don'n need superhuman models either
:(

JB09
08-04-09, 02:16
Tomb Raider Underworld promised to give players the definite Tomb Raider experience, with stunning graphics, movements and realism.

I think I only got half the promise.

Here are the "realistic things" that TRU had:
Motion Captured movements
Being able to select a few outfits each level
Treasure Hunt mode (after you finish the game)
Environments are alive
The game's physics
etc.

The problem is:
Lara moves too fast. She is almost hyper-active :(
The animations are indeed motion captured but do you actually think a human would be able to do that so fast? I mean, Lara is indeed a human, a heroine but it doesn't mean that you can swim so fast underwater (even if you're not using the sprint button), traverse ledges as if she has no weight, and more.

I don't agree, man, I'd be losing my patience if she moved any slower. They don't need to get under our skin for that reason.


The treasure hunt was realistic, but it wasn't what I wanted.
I wanted to replay levels, but not with the puzzles solved! :(
Again TRU had so many good stuff in the wrong places.

I agree, this play mode was a stupid waste of time. I just start a new game over to look for that stuff.


"Explore everything, stop at nothing"???
Does anybody believe that TRU gave players the option to explore almost all, if not all the environments??
The environments are so big yet I feel it's so linear. Multiple paths??
It was good but you really have to go through most of these paths to accomplish a task.
There are so many invisible walls.

Yeah, most of the game is one-way where the most efficient way is the only way. I wouldn't mind a little back tracking to solve a puzzle or section of a map like what they did in TRA. That game is much better in that aspect.


In the prologue level you wear the casual outfit.
And when you play the manor (before it burns) you get to choose between 3 outfits? What happens to the "present" part then? In the prologue you're wearing the casual outfit, and when you play it again you can wear the Jungle shorts outfit? Realistic?

You make a point, but this is honestly a weak point. Who cares? Maybe they felt they were ripping off the player with one outfit to pick from.


How about having the option to wear the swimsuit in the arctic sea?
Her ass will freeze to death! LOL.
(At least include the option to wear the swimsuit or any other outfit after the game is finished)

Maybe the dev team was running out of time for deadline. Someone posted, a while back, a map of a playable section of the arctic that was above the ice (or was it Jan Mayen Island?). So there's a whole chuck of content that was removed (because of time?)


Then again, here are the unrealistic things that I wish would be still included in TRU:

1-Wearing any outfits in any level
2-Replay levels like Legend/Anniversary
3-Option to watch the cutscenes unlocked

I hope the Eidos and Crystal Dynamics will listen to its fans first before making all those promises and features!
:)

1-Agree
2-Agree
3-Agree


You didin't have a problem with the camera in this game? There are too many times where I have to take a leap of faith because I can't see **** because of this lame-ass camera. The camera orientation can be very "unruly", as stated in a game review a while back, it sucks bad. The camera in TRA is much, much better.

I do like how Lara's weapon loadout is all tatical in this game, minus the spear gun, only the best for her as it should be. Her ATV bike is way sexy too.

Ward Dragon
08-04-09, 02:24
Nope but the Lara you are describing isn't the classic ones either.
I preferred the classic moves (even AOD, the best)

Yes. AND we don'n need superhuman models either
:(

Please do not double post. You can use the multiquote feature to reply to several posts at once (click the "+ button at the bottom right corner of every post you want to reply to). You can also edit your post to add more to it if you have the last post in a thread and you thought of something else to say :)

Trfansince1996
08-04-09, 02:27
The problem with the animation is that it looks weird...it skips frames...it should be fast but shouldnt skip...

Chad-x.
08-04-09, 14:30
Lara moves too fast. She is almost hyper-active :(
The animations are indeed motion captured but do you actually think a human would be able to do that so fast?

Maybe Lara is on drugs? :D

Dark Lugia 2
09-04-09, 00:31
The one thing that annoyed me was her swan dive, its not fun to use anymore if she just falls down rather than glides majesticly, it shows how fun realism can be sometimes -.- haha

abraham
09-04-09, 04:00
The replaying cutscenes couldn't be possible due to some glitches. It was mentioned..

Not wearing outfits in any level and invisible walls were there because they didnt have time to add them in.

Most of the stuff you guys mentioned was already mentioned and explained why.

Szizoli
09-04-09, 05:32
I only expect a realistic environment and realistic graphics, the fast moves, and other unreal things don't bother me. :)
For example, there is the wall run with the grapple, We've tryed to do it with my classmates in our physical edication, but it's impossible to do it.:D:D:D:jmp:

Szizoli
09-04-09, 05:35
The one thing that annoyed me was her swan dive, its not fun to use anymore if she just falls down rather than glides majesticly, it shows how fun realism can be sometimes -.- haha

I think her best swan-dive was in the old gen. games. :)
Certanly, that was very unreal, but the most beautiful swan-dive.:D IMO.

Dina_Croft
09-04-09, 13:46
Lara moves too fast. She is almost hyper-active :(
The animations are indeed motion captured but do you actually think a human would be able to do that so fast? I mean, Lara is indeed a human, a heroine but it doesn't mean that you can swim so fast underwater (even if you're not using the sprint button), traverse ledges as if she has no weight, and more.


so lara can't be fast but dante or other characters can?lara can't be a litle bit "light" but dante again can sit on a sword?:confused::confused::ton:

Marianna12
09-04-09, 14:04
I agree with the replay value, invisible walls, camera, treasure hunt etc...
I think that she moves a bit fast, but I wouldn't be enough patient to wait for her just to make one step....! IMO her movement is ok, as it was in Legend/Anniversary.
I don't care that much about the graphics, realistic models, "explore everything, stop at nothing" etc...I just want a good, long and enjoyable game! For example: Almost everyone here talks about how great were the classics!(I haven't played them!). Just compare their graphics, with TRU's! If you need those 'awesome' graphics, why do you like that much the classics???
I just can't understand, lol!:D:p:o

Ilie_Fusarau
09-04-09, 14:10
Nope but the Lara you are describing isn't the classic ones either.
I preferred the classic moves (even AOD, the best)
I am starting to get sick of the word "classic" .

RAID
09-04-09, 15:18
Would you rather Lara moves like a 100 year old woman with arthritis in every limb?
Both extremes are bad :rolleyes:

AOD's moves and animation were pure perfection. I find it odd that no behind the scenes videos using mo-cap were ever released. Sometimes, I even wonder if they did use mo-cap. They lied about the engine, and the animations are crap, so chances are...

Anyway, if I were to see TRU as a casual gamer, without having followed the process' details before it was released, I'd say that mo-cap wasn't used for the moves, nor the facial expressions.

AOD on the other hand, I don't know the details of its process, but to me, it looks like Core did use mo-cap.

Drone
09-04-09, 15:22
as long as game has good physics I'm ok with it.

AOD had a good one (it even had boobie physics lol)

LaraCablara
09-04-09, 15:27
Its a video game.

telcontar
09-04-09, 22:04
The problem is:
Lara moves too fast. She is almost hyper-active :(
The animations are indeed motion captured but do you actually think a human would be able to do that so fast? I mean, Lara is indeed a human, a heroine but it doesn't mean that you can swim so fast underwater (even if you're not using the sprint button), traverse ledges as if she has no weight, and more.

I agree that she moves a little bit too fast in TRU, but going back to extremely slow classics (as someone mentioned here) is a no-no.

In the prologue level you wear the casual outfit.
And when you play the manor (before it burns) you get to choose between 3 outfits? What happens to the "present" part then? In the prologue you're wearing the casual outfit, and when you play it again you can wear the Jungle shorts outfit? Realistic?

Umm, no1curr?


I agree with you about invisible walls and multiple paths though.

jackles
09-04-09, 22:25
Szizoli please do not double post, use the edit button.



Tbh it doesn't really bother me if TR isn't 100% realistic.


It seems to me that people are more unhappy about not getting what they felt was promised.

Szizoli
10-04-09, 09:27
Szizoli please do not double post, use the edit button.



Tbh it doesn't really bother me if TR isn't 100% realistic.


It seems to me that people are more unhappy about not getting what they felt was promised.


Ok, sorry.
:)

TerraCreek
10-04-09, 12:20
Well I hate AOD on Playstation 2. :D Now someone will roar at me for it.
TRL has been the best Tomb Raider game I've played so far. Swan dive was fine there, unlike TRU.

Anyway, my problem with TRU is that (1) as you said, the freakin invisable walls. I understand they cannot have it go on forever, but come on, you can at least put a gigantic rock in the way. :whi: (2) Lara's swimming sucks. It was much better in TRL or TRA. It was so hard to control and it was just annoying so much I didn't want an underwater level. Screw that if they can't do it right. (3) There should be no excuse why they could not have time to make all of those functions work. (cut-scene replay, level replay) They could have extended the deadline again, and I would have been okay. Now I have a memory card jam packed on TRU because I have a save at every level. (4) ZERO TRAPS! That is totally unrealistic. If I went out and tried to enter a Mayan temple, I think something would try to kill me, like that first disapearing floor trap in Bolivia! :D That was great.

AODdigger
10-04-09, 14:08
the topic is a good one to think about but the first post says absolutely nothing that doesn't contradict after a few lines etc. I think Lara pops out of the environment a little bit, but... still, guys, this is the FIRST NG game we have and it definetely feels like Tomb Raider to me. Something I hadn't expected really. The puzzles were cool, if you play with low brigthness it's even creepy; furthamore, Lara is Lara Croft, she's an athlete.. has the abscence of the gym made you forget about that? Sure, the animations, even the MC ones were a tad unrealistic. She just doesn't clear ledges that way. I'm an acrobat myself (or at least I climb walls) and I know that the Legend and Anniversary heaps were more realistic. It's just the first NG game and we need to be more patient. Yes, I agree with the post above (I haven't read it but I can see a glimpse of it from here :p) - we need more traps, more impalement, more brutal deaths, more enemies, more nemesises and all that... For the last one I'll use the excuse that the circle of the Mommy-line had to be closed so.. let's hope there're better enemies in future.

Ward Dragon
10-04-09, 20:03
(2) Lara's swimming sucks. It was much better in TRL or TRA. It was so hard to control and it was just annoying so much I didn't want an underwater level. Screw that if they can't do it right.

Is this specific to the PS2 version? The swimming on 360/PC/PS3 was fantastic, and it had the Legend/TRA controls built in so you could use that instead if you didn't like the new controls. The swimming on the Wii was freaking awful and I have no idea how it passed product testing XD

Lenochka
10-04-09, 20:14
Both extremes are bad :rolleyes:

AOD's moves and animation were pure perfection. I find it odd that no behind the scenes videos using mo-cap were ever released. Sometimes, I even wonder if they did use mo-cap. They lied about the engine, and the animations are crap, so chances are...

Anyway, if I were to see TRU as a casual gamer, without having followed the process' details before it was released, I'd say that mo-cap wasn't used for the moves, nor the facial expressions.

AOD on the other hand, I don't know the details of its process, but to me, it looks like Core did use mo-cap.

I remember a behind the scenes video where there was a person talking and behind them (most likely using green screen technology) These people were in this big room with a bunch of balls all over there limbs doing flips and shiz like that... So yeah, I'm pretty sure we did get atleast some motion capture footage.

Ward Dragon
10-04-09, 20:15
I remember a behind the scenes video where there was a person talking and behind them (most likely using green screen technology) These people were in this big room with a bunch of balls all over there limbs doing flips and shiz like that... So yeah, I'm pretty sure we did get atleast some motion capture footage

In one of the interviews I think they said that they used motion capture but then they went and chopped out a lot of frames to make the animations go faster. They apparently didn't have time to find a good balance between smoothness and speed.

tranniversary119
10-04-09, 20:21
I would have much preferred the boring mo-cap then the fast superman animations we got :rolleyes:

AmericanAssassin
10-04-09, 20:25
TRU had a good balance of realism and fantasy. I was impressed by those elements. As I've said before, the only issue I had with TRU was its horrendous camera. It's the worst I've ever seen in a video game. :mad:

Ward Dragon
10-04-09, 20:29
TRU had a good balance of realism and fantasy. I was impressed by those elements. As I've said before, the only issue I had with TRU was its horrendous camera. It's the worst I've ever seen in a video game. :mad:

Then go play Defiance on PC or TRA on Wii :whi:

Seriously though I thought the TRU camera was an improvement, except in small spaces where it went psychotic on me. What did the camera do to you?

Estacado
10-04-09, 21:01
I am starting to get sick of the word "classic" .
I hear that. I don't understand the sheer amount of hate the last three games have gotten. I mean surely if you claim to not like something enough you just move on from it?
If you love the classics so much just stick to playing them and if you hate the recent additions so much it's a case of either put up or shut up.

TerraCreek
10-04-09, 21:28
Is this specific to the PS2 version? The swimming on 360/PC/PS3 was fantastic, and it had the Legend/TRA controls built in so you could use that instead if you didn't like the new controls. The swimming on the Wii was freaking awful and I have no idea how it passed product testing XD

I'll check and see if I can change the controls, but no, it was freakin aweful! It made the Meditertainian so annyoing and undesirable, even if you had thought it looked good, it really sucked.

(Before checking) You can't just swim up in PS2, you have to move back, then swim up. You can't just swim forward either, you have to swerve up and down, back and forth. Want me to make a video of it? :)

trXD
10-04-09, 21:49
Everything you said (apart from lara moving to fast, she is an athlete) has a simple answer.

Its a video game, it isnt real life, there is no need to decrease the things you can do in a game to make it more "realistic".

Super Badnik
10-04-09, 21:54
I hear that. I don't understand the sheer amount of hate the last three games have gotten. I mean surely if you claim to not like something enough you just move on from it?
If you love the classics so much just stick to playing them and if you hate the recent additions so much it's a case of either put up or shut up.Ugh. "Classic". If i could i think i would remove that word from the english language.

MMAN
10-04-09, 23:32
I hear that. I don't understand the sheer amount of hate the last three games have gotten. I mean surely if you claim to not like something enough you just move on from it?
If you love the classics so much just stick to playing them and if you hate the recent additions so much it's a case of either put up or shut up.

"Put up or shut up" when you aren't happy with something is defeatism; not a good thing.

Super Badnik
11-04-09, 00:27
"Put up or shut up" when you aren't happy with something is defeatism; not a good thing.But it gets very annoying when they emit shear hate onto you and start trying to force their opinons on you when you have an opinon that dosen't fit into their anti-CD regime.

telcontar
11-04-09, 00:41
But it gets very annoying when they emit shear hate onto you and start trying to force their opinons on you when you have an opinon that dosen't fit into their anti-CD regime.

I agree. I'm new to the forum, but I've read through quite a few threads. And sometimes there's no real conversation, it's just the same thing over and over again: classics, like in classics, classics this, classics that, classics are better, Madness? This Is Classics!!!!

HollabackBoy
11-04-09, 01:34
I find it odd that no behind the scenes videos using mo-cap were ever released. Sometimes, I even wonder if they did use mo-cap.

KIlpvmMolJ0

Ward Dragon
11-04-09, 02:40
I'll check and see if I can change the controls, but no, it was freakin aweful! It made the Meditertainian so annyoing and undesirable, even if you had thought it looked good, it really sucked.

(Before checking) You can't just swim up in PS2, you have to move back, then swim up. You can't just swim forward either, you have to swerve up and down, back and forth. Want me to make a video of it? :)

No need for a video :) That sounds like the Wii version's swimming controls which were terrible.

Hateshinai
11-04-09, 08:48
KIlpvmMolJ0
At 3:10, it looks like they're still using a grid system ...

trXD
11-04-09, 10:00
At 3:10, it looks like they're still using a grid system ...

Its called a testing level.

Y'no to test out her abilities, its pretty easy to tell that they dont use a grid system anymore it would have made a lot of things they have done impossible.

vmj51 :|
11-04-09, 10:22
You didin't have a problem with the camera in this game? There are too many times where I have to take a leap of faith because I can't see **** because of this lame-ass camera. The camera orientation can be very "unruly", as stated in a game review a while back, it sucks bad. The camera in TRA is much, much better.

I do like how Lara's weapon loadout is all tatical in this game, minus the spear gun, only the best for her as it should be. Her ATV bike is way sexy too.

OMG!! I forgot about those!
Yes, I was annoyed at the camera.
I didn't like the fact that you get to select a weapon at the start of the stage and realize that you can switch it with other weapons later anyway. -_- LOL

vmj51 :|
11-04-09, 10:28
so lara can't be fast but dante or other characters can?lara can't be a litle bit "light" but dante again can sit on a sword?:confused::confused::ton:

Ugh this isn't Devil May Cry, you know.
It's Tomb Raider.
It's different. DMC is pure fictional.
TR has a little bit of reality in it.
(For example the myths and cultures)

vmj51 :|
11-04-09, 10:33
I am starting to get sick of the word "classic" .

Fine, I'll call it "old" xD

Super Badnik
11-04-09, 10:55
I agree. I'm new to the forum, but I've read through quite a few threads. And sometimes there's no real conversation, it's just the same thing over and over again: classics, like in classics, classics this, classics that, classics are better, Madness? This Is Classics!!!!Welcome to the Forums telcontar:)

Anyways, that kinda talk isn't exactly rare around here, i agree. I can only really suggest if you disagree to ignore it and move on. Theres no arguing or giving counter-opinons with that stuff unfortunatley:(

ClassicCroft
11-04-09, 11:30
It,s an game , and games aren,t realistic ;),

mike-d
11-04-09, 11:55
She has a hammer that shoots LIGHTNING FGS. I don't think realism and Thor's Hammer go hand in hand.

Maritimus
11-04-09, 12:59
Welcome to the Forums telcontar:)

Anyways, that kinda talk isn't exactly rare around here, i agree. I can only really suggest if you disagree to ignore it and move on. Theres no arguing or giving counter-opinons with that stuff unfortunatley:(


Well most people want classic Lara back. Or if you want, old Lara. The one with the tough attitude and a braid.

"Classic" gameplay is not that important to me, but "classic" Lara is.

Laras man
11-04-09, 13:35
I would like the moves as realistic as the classics and same speed as classics. Your right, she does go to fast BUT I'M BLOODY SICK OF HEARING IT!!!!!!!!!!! :hea:

Dennis's Mom
11-04-09, 14:07
Ugh this isn't Devil May Cry, you know.
It's Tomb Raider.
It's different. DMC is pure fictional.
TR has a little bit of reality in it.
(For example the myths and cultures)

Agreed, but one thing they did bring from DMC (that I was asking for) were more cancel frames to the animations. Anyone who's spent more than a few minutes with Dante can appreciate how responsive he is. It drove me bananas in TRA having to wait for animations to complete before Lara would accept a new command. It's not supposed to be survival horror either.

TRU had the most responsive Lara since the CLASSIC days. (Sorry, couldn't resist.:D)

Hateshinai
11-04-09, 19:46
Agreed, but one thing they did bring from DMC (that I was asking for) were more cancel frames to the animations. Anyone who's spent more than a few minutes with Dante can appreciate how responsive he is. It drove me bananas in TRA having to wait for animations to complete before Lara would accept a new command. It's not supposed to be survival horror either.

TRU had the most responsive Lara since the CLASSIC days. (Sorry, couldn't resist.:D)
TRL-A-U had a very responsive Lara.

Lara has been more responsive than she's ever been since CD took over.
In TR1-6 you have to wait until the whole animation is finished to give Lara another command .

Super Badnik
11-04-09, 19:57
Well most people want classic Lara back. Or if you want, old Lara. The one with the tough attitude and a braid.

"Classic" gameplay is not that important to me, but "classic" Lara is.I refer you to my signature.

Maritimus
11-04-09, 20:52
I refer you to my signature.

Well, your signature is your opinion. While I respect it, I do not agree to it.

Even if you do not agree that her attitude is different since Legend, you cannot deny that the trademark braid is gone ;)

Dina_Croft
11-04-09, 21:09
It,s an game , and games aren,t realistic ;),

I TOTALY AGREE!i mean for god sakes it's a game...:p

Minimus
26-04-09, 14:27
You should probably play the game before criticizing it :S When you replay the levels, the puzzles *aren't* solved. It is as it is named - replay, meaning to play the level as it was again. I think I've taken your preceptive right... :S

And about the Prologue level, what did you mean? She doesn't 'change' outfits in the fourth level (Croft Manor).

:)

larson n natla
26-04-09, 15:51
as long as game has good physics I'm ok with it.

AOD had a good one (it even had boobie physics lol)

Those were its main physics :p, I just dont like the frame skipping and the unfinishedness :) If its broken dont release it.

Oh and on croft manor you can change outfits to jungle shorts and after coming out of the vault the manor blows up just like the prologue with lara in shorts instead of casual (Annacronism)

Oh and Hateshinai Id rather wait than lets her skip frames and look buggy in an animation

Meldorian
26-04-09, 16:38
I agree that Lara's movements were too fast in TR:U. It simply looks unnatural. This is ok for characters that are supposed to move with super-human speed, but Lara has always been a mere human dealing with super-natural enemies, who is not super-human herself. Ok, her endurance and strength are of course rather unreal, but the animations simply look better if they are executed with half-way realistic speed. In a sense, Lara moving like a normal if athletic human most of the time makes her beating gods and demons much more appealing.

Ward Dragon
27-04-09, 03:36
You should probably play the game before criticizing it :S When you replay the levels, the puzzles *aren't* solved. It is as it is named - replay, meaning to play the level as it was again. I think I've taken your preceptive right... :S

If we're talking about Underworld here, the puzzles *are* solved if you try to replay the levels using "Revisit Location" on the 360/PC/PS3 version. The Wii and PS2 versions have a true replay feature, though.

Joshorty
27-04-09, 04:08
I'd rather her move at the same pace as in the classics tbh. Not to sound like a classics fanboy, but that pace was more realistic and she wasn't even mo-capped there.

AGREE with you there. ESPECIALLY the SWAN-DIVE. That was poetry in motion. I don't understand why they can't have her do something like that again. Underworld's and Legend's dive are too robotic.