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Neteru
20-05-09, 19:59
... Everything is OK.



KGA9ZUEa3ZY

Angelus
20-05-09, 20:00
You *****.

Marianna12
20-05-09, 20:05
You spammer!!!:smk:
I thought it was something importand!!!!:hea:
:D

dizzydoil
20-05-09, 20:06
Ah darn. The god damn video won't play for me. Oh well :p. I'm guessing it's that important it'll have to wait :D.

TRhalloween
20-05-09, 20:08
It better be.

tomblover
20-05-09, 20:18
"Terrorism Abdullah Mohammed Al-Qaida."

:vlol:

jamieoliver22
20-05-09, 20:19
That was awesome :D

Forwen
20-05-09, 20:26
Wow, even I can't pull this level of pretentiousness and hypocrisy.

So what's their problem again? Takes all kinds - and at the end of the day this disproves their point (whatever it was).

Draco
20-05-09, 20:29
I thought it was a little sillier than it needed to be, but the message was true.

pneboy
20-05-09, 20:47
9:54 of my life back please or GTFO

violentblossom
20-05-09, 20:51
lmao! :vlol:

"God told me that she loves athiests the best."

Angelus
20-05-09, 20:51
9:54 of my life back please or GTFO

*dead*

:vlol:

EmeraldFields
20-05-09, 20:53
They have too much time on their hands...

dizzydoil
20-05-09, 20:55
lmao! :vlol:

"god told me that she loves athiests the best."
ROFL. Baahaaa.

Tony9595
20-05-09, 21:15
First EscondeR with Beyonce Dress up, and now this... :vlol:

spikejones
20-05-09, 21:28
nice... thanks for that. so true.. so true..

Catapharact
20-05-09, 21:39
Maybe you should check his other videos. He's probably one of those guys who sit's in coffee shops and sips his latte whilst reading the Guardian.

And given what I just read on the little youtube link you provided, you have just proven that Islamophobia is not only rampant in the West; Its taking a turn to pure malice and hate crime. Seems like its not the Muslims people in the UK should be afraid of :whi:.

Neteru
20-05-09, 21:43
Seems like its not the Muslims people in the UK should be afraid of :whi:.No, it's not. It's the government, its propaganda machine and the resultant effects.

LaraLuvrrr
20-05-09, 21:45
Is this what unemployment is causing? lol but seriously during these tough times the government is clearly afraid of public upheavel. After all the citizens are the ones with the power right? :rolleyes:

Changeling
20-05-09, 21:47
o.o Well that was... *ahem*, um, yeah, interesting.

Neteru
20-05-09, 21:47
After all the citizens are the ones with the power right? :rolleyes:That's what they need to be reminded of.

jjbennett
20-05-09, 21:53
This is epic!

LaraLuvrrr
20-05-09, 21:54
That's what they need to be reminded of.

Yea I agree. I think here in the U.S. we need to start putting lighters under our politicians asses. They bicker so much with each other so they can maintain their political reputations and ultimately all us little ants just look up and complain. Well the way I see it if things don't start to get solved then a revolution may be in store. Governments get too complacent.

Goose
20-05-09, 21:58
And given what I just read on the little youtube link you provided, you have just proven that Islamophobia is not only rampant in the West; Its taking a turn to pure malice and hate crime. Seems like its not the Muslims people in the UK should be afraid of :whi:.

You got all that by watching a bunch of Muslims trying to attack an Israeli embassy?

Catapharact
20-05-09, 22:01
You got all that by watching a bunch of Muslims trying to attack an Israeli embassy?

Read the youtube comments below. Unless all those given people are web based actors hired to pose as one another, I gotta say... Youtube is really becoming a haven for hate propaganda.

And people complain as to why youtube wants to start getting strict on the content that's usually posted on it.

And I do mean all forms of extremism when I say that.

Goose
20-05-09, 22:04
Read the youtube comments below. Unless all those given people are web based actors hired to pose as one another, I gotta say... Youtube is really becoming a haven for hate propaganda.

And people complain as to why youtube wants to start getting strict on the content that's usually posted on it.

And I do mean all forms of extremism when I say that.

Youtube has a habit of people just typing things without thinking at all. You should see what people put on alot of US videos, let alone Israeli ones.

Reggie
20-05-09, 22:36
Cat, I really think you're off the mark by implying that the Youtube community somehow has a bearing on the real life community. The place is left largely unmoderated and the members are mostly anonymous this leads to people saying things they wouldn't otherwise say and has led to many the people with any articulacy, decency or conscience simply avoiding the commments section altogether. Its just not worth posting there.

As for the video itself well I got the gist after about 1:30. My question is, why couldn't they use speaker's corner if they had something decent to say? Its obvious they were stirring things up for the sake of it so that they could then film people's reactions. When I'm going about my daily business I don't expect to hear someone with a megaphone being critical of what I believe in and my first instinct would be to challenge them.

Goose
20-05-09, 22:38
As for the video itself well I got the gist after about 1:30. My question is, why couldn't they use speaker's corner if they had something decent to say? Its obvious they were stirring things up for the sake of it so that they could then film people's reactions. When I'm going about my daily business I don't expect to hear someone with a megaphone being critical of what I believe in and my first instinct would be to challenge them.

Well there no different from football hooligans, at least they have a cause, even if its mis-understood and directed at people who give them everything there own countries wont.

It wasnt the point to look down on them for violent protesting, its not unique to them, just showing that the guy doing the little speech is an idiot.

Edit: ahh your talking about the other guy sorry.

Catapharact
20-05-09, 22:43
Cat, I really think you're off the mark by implying that the Youtube community somehow has a bearing on the real life community. The place is left largely unmoderated and the members are mostly anonymous this leads to people saying things they wouldn't otherwise say and has led to many the people with any articulacy, decency or conscience simply avoiding the commments section altogether. Its just not worth posting there.

Relax Reggie; Given that more debates on the subject of racial segrigation and racisism usually start off with youtube comment page being used as reference, I wanted to make sure we were all clear that youtube does not reflect the views of the sane population of a given nationality/belief system.

Its something both Goose and I agree on.

Reggie
20-05-09, 22:49
But I thought you said that the comments proved Islamaphobia was rampant in the West? But you're saying now Youtube doesn't reflect the views of the population at large? I'll take you up on the second statement - we agree on that one.

@Goose: I just don't see the point of it. I have a friend who drove me up the wall talking like that all the time until I barely spoke to him anymore. Oh yeah you're soooo cool for having such postmodern, atheist, uber philosophical opinions but its really grates when there's a constant diatribe like that all the time.

Neteru
20-05-09, 22:55
I'm surprised by your reaction Reggie.

Are you not more sick of the constant diatribe of governments?

Catapharact
20-05-09, 22:57
But I thought you said that the comments proved Islamaphobia was rampant in the West? But you're saying now Youtube doesn't reflect the views of the population at large? I'll take you up on the second statement - we agree on that one.

Given the fact that most people don't realize just how lunitic their given comments sound when claiming hate crimes on youtube and the comments being the reflection of the given belief system/population (I should know...) Its only when the reverse psyc. seneio is applied does the given population realize just how stupid it is to use youtube as reference for hate crime events.

Unfortunately, that message rarely sinks into people's heads unless the reverse psyc. senerio is applied to them.

TRfan23
20-05-09, 22:57
Is this what unemployment is causing? lol but seriously during these tough times the government is clearly afraid of public upheavel. After all the citizens are the ones with the power right? :rolleyes:

That's how it should always be, the government afraid of the public. Not us afraid of the government ;) Regardless of what situation it's in.

Reggie
20-05-09, 23:10
Neteru, I can see where they were coming from. BUT By 'daring' to disrupt the order of things by saying various things including the postmodern 'everything is ok' (a reflection of their own thoughts and beliefs) they didn't really achieve much in the grand scheme of things and some people just won't get it. It even took me a while to notice what their point was until I realised it was the act of what they were doing (not what they're saying) that was the point of all this.

I'll have to think carefully about your question, Net. To say that I'm sick of governments altogether is a whole other belief I'd have to buy into. Believe me, with all that's been happening, its tempting to abandon hope in the system but to quote the Israeli act from Eurovision this year 'there must be another way'.

What I'm missing here is what do these men want? What are they asking for and why? Answering these questions would have done their campaign a favour.

Given the fact that most people don't realize just how lunitic their given comments sound when claiming hate crimes on youtube and the comments being the reflection of the given belief system/population (I should know...) Its only when the reverse psyc. seneio is applied does the given population realize just how stupid it is to use youtube as reference for hate crime events.

Unfortunately, that message rarely sinks into people's heads unless the reverse psyc. senerio is applied to them.

Don't worry. That already makes sense to me without the reverse psychology. :)

Neteru
20-05-09, 23:21
I think it's clear what they were up to. To wake people up. The fact is they did it in a very humorous way, and it is by virtue of the humour used that what they are against appears all the more stark in its ugliness. But then, I'm well aware of many who have no idea, as evinced by a number of (entirely expected) reactions to this thread. They are just the kind of sheeple I've spoken to you about before, who are just happy to blindly slump in front of the TV for another episode of Eastenders whilst stuffing their face with a big mac.

Reggie
20-05-09, 23:29
I agree with the intention (now that I'm clear about what it was) however if they wanted to wake people up then they should have explained it by answering the questions I put across in my last posts. They should have explained what the problem is, give some examples, what they want to see happen and that is why they're being defiant (which is what most successful protests base themselves on). Instead they looked without cause by dint of their ambiguity for humourous effect. I mean if you were there and you told them what you've told me, you could have won people over straight away because you always hit the nail on the head where it counts on things like this. These guys failed in that which is a shame when the cause is so right IMO.
However, just an afterthought - by provoking a reaction they will get people talking and questioning. This is credit that they do deserve.

Neteru
20-05-09, 23:37
Many methods are and have been used in making political points, satire is one of the most favoured, and I think what they did was very satirical. It's not always the case (nor always necessary) that full explanation is given. It was all clear to me from the start what their points were, but maybe that's because these are subjects I consider daily. I don't know. What I would say is that anyone paying attention to the media over the last ten years, at the least, should have been able to get the message, otherwise the collective hypnagogia is more advanced than I thought.

EDIT:

However, just an afterthought - by provoking a reaction they will get people talking and questioning. This is credit that they do deserve.

This is one of the points of it. To provoke talk, thought. It gives a prod to the (actual or near) sleeping.

Reggie
20-05-09, 23:42
But I didn't know it was satire. If people knew it was satirising the nanny state we're in full of restrictions on this and that then the message would have been more successfully interpreted. Satire only works when people know its satire in which case, it is one the best ways to make a political point.

Edit: I see you didn't see what I added afterwards. So yeah, I understand the point of it - they're getting people talking. THAT is what will make this successful. Just took me a while to get my head around the fact that simple provocation could help to further their cause so effectively. And by posting their video here, Net you've contributed to that. :)
And by discussing this, I'm now far more ready to accept this video - its very clever really. I just needed to understand its purpose (I'm fussy on that little detail).

Forwen
21-05-09, 00:24
Oh please, as someone who was born in a dying authoritiarian state I ridicule and despise the attitudes of people like the makers of this video. It's endemic for Western Europe. Gay right acitivists battling the usage of "gay", feminists criticising Mulan (the first one) for sexism only a paranoid mind could possibly see, random misty-eyed leftists/Muslim activists demanding the removal of pig/dog images from public space, they're all the same. Trapped in a bubble. Oh yes, it's so easy to climb a moral high ground in a country where the worst consequence may be getting a slap on the wrist from a passing policeman. If they're so brave, why won't these pathetic goody-goodies from the vid go to China and try to preach the same on Tiananmen square, where bravery has real value and real consequences? Why won't they proclaim Allah an atheist-favouring lesbian in Rijad? But I guess Chinese and Saudi prisons don't have big macs and Eastenders.

This video makes me sick with its shallow pretentiousness. Who's "they"? Can the makers point their fingers and name and identify "them", or is the same "establishment" to them as it was the "enemy of the state" to the communist authorities? Are "they" the policemen and security guards? Congratulations, they've just reduced a human being to a faceless lifeless allegory.

The only (unintended) point of this video is to show what happens in a society where there's little left to fight for. I'm gonna quote this vid from now on as one of the most pathetic attempts at civil activism I've ever seen. Prove me wrong.

[/rant]

LaraLuvrrr
21-05-09, 00:28
I think it's clear what they were up to. To wake people up. The fact is they did it in a very humorous way, and it is by virtue of the humour used that what they are against appears all the more stark in its ugliness. But then, I'm well aware of many who have no idea, as evinced by a number of (entirely expected) reactions to this thread. They are just the kind of sheeple I've spoken to you about before, who are just happy to blindly slump in front of the TV for another episode of Eastenders whilst stuffing their face with a big mac.

:vlol: Yes... I know many blind sheep. But then there's also those that are not sheep that don't know what to do about the situation either. So I say these guys had the guts to go out and put it in public! Because you know everyone complains at home but few have the guts to go out and demonstrate how they feel in public. These guys even confronted the police. While they may seem to have gone a bit overboard with their humor my opinion is that if they're going to only have a little bit of time to make a demonstration they might as well make it LOUD in the hopes it will have a ripple effect. If they would have been more passive then their message would not have the same impact.

Catapharact
21-05-09, 00:43
Oh yes, it's so easy to climb a moral high ground in a country where the worst consequence may be getting a slap on the wrist from a passing policeman. If they're so brave, why won't these pathetic goody-goodies from the vid go to China and try to preach the same on Tiananmen square, where bravery has real value and real consequences? Why won't they proclaim Allah an atheist-favouring lesbian in Rijad? But I guess Chinese and Saudi prisons don't have big macs and Eastenders.

Offcourse not. People really don't value their given rights until they are questioned or taken away Or worst; Used by the opposite side and who ends up questioning their given logic and make total toddlers out of them and their way of thinking. My personal views of Saudi Arabia and the harsh laws for commited crimes in general aren't a secret. I fully support the harsh menthods of enforcement. Where it ends up being a question of unfair biasness is when Women's rights comes into play (which ironically are anti-Islamic... But yet people group them in the same category.) So yes, if people (leftist Muslims included) actually knew of Muslim protests against these given injustices then they would think twice about protesting the local western cafetaria for serving pork products and the like.

Maybe they need to spend time doing work for an NGO like the Red Cross / Cresent and actually see the critical problems that people in the Gaza Strip or the Israeli towns face or have a clear look at genocides being committed in Africa to have an idea as to what they really need to fight for out there.

TRexbait
21-05-09, 00:48
It seems that not all is as it seem when the people are given Freedom of Speech.I remember watching something similar in my English class when we had a similar assignment, of looking deep into what the government truly means to say when it makes laws.

While on the topic, some comments (specifically on the first page) saw this as not thread-worthy, or implied it, "9:54 of my life back please" and probably would have preferred the simple, and nearly comment less first post (containing no topic starter at all, other than a reference to the video) to have been posted in Open Chat. Looking at some similarly started past threads, I have a question. Had this thread been posted by a normal member would it have been closed and the creator referred to Open Chat.

LaraLuvrrr
21-05-09, 00:52
^ Hmm good question :whi:

Catapharact
21-05-09, 00:55
Looking at how some similarly started past threads, I have a question. Had this thread been posted by a normal member would it have been closed and the creator referred to Open Chat.

That also depends upon the atmosphere its being posted in and the given member's track record (i.e. has the given member posted lots of useless crud not even worth making a second glace at for a serious discussion.)

In Neteru's case, you have a member who has a pretty solid track record for contributing valuable discussion material as well as being a pretty laid back kinda guy. And he admirably proved his merit in being a valuable contributer to this forum in this given thread by debating the given point of view with a deeper thought process then simply posting a oneliner.

TRexbait
21-05-09, 00:58
^ So, based on personal liking (in a way) of the poster, the thread may or may not make it.

"Just because they don't like what we're saying" or should it rather be, did say.

Catapharact
21-05-09, 01:02
Given a person's proven track record, it might not make it yes. I myself have protested thread closures in the past yet ended up accepting a moderator's decision for closing a particular humor based thread in GC given the fact that the given crowd that resides in GC is way too sensitive. Does it makes me mad? Sure it does. However given the senerio and the population in question, its a plausibly logic decision.

TRexbait
21-05-09, 01:12
What i have noticed is that usually, MODs wait a bit to see if people comment positively about a thread, which they themselves may not like, before closing it. Now, if the thread was one with a serious topic yet get's off to an arguably bad start (such as this one), and is posted by a not-so-popular member would it be closed? What if it was posted a member better known for making "good" threads?

Mr.Burns
21-05-09, 01:19
I always tried to give everyone a fair chance with threads of this nature. If the thread deteriorated into fights, then I closed it. nough said.

Catapharact
21-05-09, 01:20
Now, if the thread was one with a serious topic yet get's off to an arguable bad start (such as this one), and is posted by a not-so-popular member would it be closed? What if it was posted a member better known for making "good" threads?


I can't answer that question for you since I am not a TRF moderator. Given the fact that my threads haven't been systematically closed for any other given reason other then provoking a possible riot from the not-so-self-confident crowd, I am gonna say that their given modus of action thus far has been plausibly logical.

Then again, there have been "questionable" threads made by the forum admin himself (yes... I am looking at you Justino Penguino) which can verily constitute as Spam and that makes me wonder if its fair for the admins to bypass the given rules of the forum like that and not get tagged by one of the moderators.

TRexbait
21-05-09, 01:27
I always tried to give everyone a fair chance with threads of this nature. If the thread deteriorated into fights, then I closed it. nough said.That's what i meant by saying that MODs usually wait for comments from the general public. Forgive me if i was unclear.

I can't answer that question for you since I am not a TRF moderator. Given the fact that my threads haven't been systematically closed for any other given reason other then provoking a possible riot from the not-so-self-confident crowd, I am gonna say that their given modus of action thus far has been plausibly logical.

Then again, there have been "questionable" threads made by the forum admin himself (yes... I am looking at you Justino Penguino) which can verily constitute as Spam and that makes me wonder if its fair for the admins to bypass the given rules of the forum like that and not get tagged by one of the moderators.That thought was the root to my original question. Why some people are allowed to post nonsense theads some of the times while others are not? I'm not saying that the MODs never allow nonsense threads, because they do allow them every now and then, nor am i recommending that they do allow more of those types of threads to remain open. It's just a question.

spikejones
21-05-09, 01:39
....The place is left largely unmoderated and the members are mostly anonymous this leads to people saying things they wouldn't otherwise say and has led to many the people with any articulacy, decency or conscience simply avoiding the commments section altogether. Its just not worth posting there.....
Here's my take on just about any internet based discussion: People realize that they may never in their life ever meet face to face with the person whom they are talking with. That said, people will tend to come right out with their opinions on everything and not give two cents about whom they offend. They will, in effect, let the whole wide world know they're a big old ass hole. People don't hardly ever say what is really on their minds when it comes to real life. They end up walking on egg shells so as not to insult someone, or else to keep from looking bad. Now I usually take things with a grain of salt and beleive less what I hear and more of what I see, but I'm willing to wager that people are more apt to be truthful about controversial topics online than they are in real life. That or they just take everything as a joke. Hard to tell sometimes.
Neteru, I can see where they were coming from. BUT By 'daring' to disrupt the order of things by saying various things including the postmodern 'everything is ok' (a reflection of their own thoughts and beliefs)
But I didn't know it was satire.

Now.. the way that I saw this video was that they were simply holding a sign and talking to people in a (somewhat) disruptive manner about everything being okay - when in fact, everything was not okay. Case in point - if everything was okay, there would not be a problem with them standing on the steps of that building and talking about whatever it was that they were talking about. They pointed out that it was becoming (or had long since become) a "police state". Their examples and arguments sounded clear enough to me. Why would a police officer waste his time to remove a person from your home simply because he is holding a sign saying anything and talking about that? They wouldn't. Not from my experience. But.. when it comes to businesses and government facilities, if you do that type of thing they say "this is private property and we reserve the right to make you leave or else arrest you, simply because we don't agree with what you are saying and doing here". What kind of sense does that make? Is that right? I don't think so. From what it sounded like in the video - there were plenty of onlookers who had no issue with what they were doing there, however the owners of that establishment didn't like it and as such - they were forced to leave. :confused: Seems to me the only entity being "disrupted" was the facility owners.

Sir Croft
21-05-09, 01:56
lmao @ "terrorism terrorism Al-Qaeda terrorism" part :vlol: :vlol:

croft94
21-05-09, 03:15
rofl I dint get the point but watev :vlol:

Quasimodo
21-05-09, 06:05
Then again, there have been "questionable" threads made by the forum admin himself (yes... I am looking at you Justino Penguino) which can verily constitute as Spam and that makes me wonder if its fair for the admins to bypass the given rules of the forum like that and not get tagged by one of the moderators.

Why some people are allowed to post nonsense theads some of the times while others are not?

I've been wondering this, too. It's like driving the speed limit on the highway while the cops blaze past you.

spikejones
21-05-09, 07:50
I've been wondering this, too. It's like driving the speed limit on the highway while the cops blaze past you.

Well.. Justin can do whatever he pleases with his own forums and website - that's not for us to question. I don't really see it as spam myself, but a way to lighten the atmosphere in here - a pleasant detraction from all the "how do you want to die?" type threads. And this thread itself I do not see as a spam like thread either, regardless of how others may view it. Perhaps they may view it that way because they thought it was going to be "an important announcement". But... catchy and appropriate title nonetheless. And if anyone were to actually think about the subject of the video beyond simply looking at the "disruptiveness" of it - its got some valid points. Therefore, I don't see what the fuss is all about.

Goose
21-05-09, 08:33
They are just the kind of sheeple I've spoken to you about before, who are just happy to blindly slump in front of the TV for another episode of Eastenders whilst stuffing their face with a big mac.[/I]

Rather then hitting the streets with any weapon at hand to burn down the house of commons/Buckingham Palace and Parliament?:rolleyes:

The government needs propaganda, people cant be trusted to work on there own thoughts, we are to selfish. Although we are democratic, we still have to work a system similar to communism, we need to work jobs that pay for our economy so everyone gets health care and public transport (to work), we need to buy products from monopolizing companies otherwise there subsidiaries go bust leaving thousands without a job, and our economy in worse state. We need to fear our police force, otherwise we end up in a state like we are now, where kids carry knives and are more likely to kill a police officer then get arrested by one.

What do these people want? If they want the Liberal Democrats in power, why aren't they saying that, if they dont want any political party in power, why haven't they created there own, and using this as a campaign trail?

Neteru
21-05-09, 14:06
...

You're thoughts are running away with themselves based upon an evident grievance already existent in your mind concerning how this forum is managed. The phrase 'axe to grind' comes to mind.

It was my purpose to post a subject of substance (yes, substance, not some spam), and wait a while to see how people reacted to it.



... the people cant be trusted to work on there own thoughts, ...

... We need to fear our police force ...

Quoth the soldier. You're just the kind of enforcer that governments love. So nice to know your position in relation to the government and the people (who are in fact your real employers).

Goose
21-05-09, 14:18
[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=4][COLOR=#003F7E][I]Quoth the soldier. You're just the kind of enforcer that governments love. So nice to know your position in relation to the government and the people (who are in fact your real employers).

Theres a reason hippies died out, there idealism just wasn't realistic. Im afraid to say Hanoi Jane and her like supported mass murder. There is no better life, just democracy and other failed states we see around us, and quite frankly, anyone with half a brain would love what you take for granted, and at the moment, seem keen on destroying.

Just what do you want?

Neteru
21-05-09, 14:28
A just society where no government lies to, terrorises or seeks to deny the rights of the people who employ them.

tampi
21-05-09, 14:34
:whi:I was thinking that Neteru get married :ohn:

Goose
21-05-09, 14:37
A just society where no government lies to, terrorises or seeks to deny the rights of the people who employ them.

You believe that the country is **** through some government entity? The government is made up of people, this country is made up with people, it is the people you have a problem with, the people who are selfish and greedy.

Its human nature, without the government what would stop people from doing anything they like? Not everyone is a hippy remember.

spikejones
21-05-09, 14:52
You believe that the country is **** through some government entity? The government is made up of people, this country is made up with people, it is the people you have a problem with, the people who are selfish and greedy.

Its human nature, without the government what would stop people from doing anything they like? Not everyone is a hippy remember.

Weeell. I dunno about in Britain, but here in the US, controversial bills are tacked onto (and sometimes quite obscurely and without much public knowledge) the ones that are deemed to be of great importance to "the people". So in doing, bills that the people would otherwise not pass get voted into existence. That... or the good stuff gets shot down along with the bad. Its not just "lets vote on this bill and then we'll vote on that bill" its more of "these bills are all on this ticket - vote for all of them at once". That, sir, is sheisty practice to get those bills passed that effectively take away some of our rights. No.. its not just the people doing the voting that are to blame. Its the people who draw up those bills and stack them together like that.

Neteru
21-05-09, 15:01
Not everyone is a hippy remember.Why do you keep referring to hippies? This hasn't got anything to do with hippies. I think this is more about your perception, as an establishment employee, of those who would stand up for freedom.

disneyprincess20
21-05-09, 15:07
Caveat: I have not seen the video, I can't see youtube at work.

I think this is more about your perception, as an establishment employee, of those who would stand up for freedom.

Conversely, aren't your remarks to Goose based on your perception of soldiers (or establishment employees)? You seem to believe the whole system is corrupt* and should be completely overhauled, with no actual guide as to what it should be overhauled into. At least Goose is realistic in his perception that everyone has the potential to be corrupt.


*I'd love to know your opinion on the expenses scandal, but that's for another thread.

Mr.Burns
21-05-09, 15:12
No one should blindly follow their leaders or government. Question their actions. To follow without question is to give those in power carte blanche to do what they will. Greed is one of the most basic of all human emotions and it's also one of the most powerful. In the US, the Founding Fathers insisted upon the population to have the ability to reject their government when they felt that it was not working. National elections. Of course now, the powerful have influence over the masses through mass media. Distort or twist a truth to cater towards a particular aim and you will get the desired result. Am I a conspiracy theorist for thinking like this? No. I'm not naive to take everything that the mainstream media puts out as truth.

tampi
21-05-09, 15:28
The situation in general is not OK. Really is catastrophic!
The video is entirely ironic, and its makers knew well how finish.

My views on the state of things is very depressing. Perhaps that is why I have this avatar, maybe that's why I try so innate find the positive side of things. :o
This civilization is built on a foundation absolutely wrong and damaged. The power is absolutely corrupt in its design, not particularly talking about.
Society in general, always optimistic at heart, with the expected arrival of a leading Obama resurrection of values and a reorentación of economic, social, institucuonal etc. But this is impossible in concept. At least for now.
There is still enough value, or the tongue, not language (but also) to lead us towards a better future.

In our country not only is not that, but the situation is becoming worse.
The power is absolutely corrupt. It is manipulative, deceitful, encourages youth to improper actions of their age. The government has no moral or intellectual exercise as a government.
We are puppets of some rulers (mostly) not worthy of such status.

Goose
21-05-09, 15:39
Why do you keep referring to hippies? This hasn't got anything to do with hippies. I think this is more about your perception, as an establishment employee, of those who would stand up for freedom.

Well if your going to refer to me as 'sheeple' surely i can refer to you as, 'hippy', or 'commie'.

But i do so in lightheartedness, as both are thankfully dead in this part of the world.

I love those who stand up for freedom, especially those who stand up for the freedoms of people other then themselves, partly why i joined.

But like iv asked before, what do you realistically want? Liberals in power? A new politicial party? Or are you just going to moan and do nothing worth noting?

Neteru
21-05-09, 15:44
Conversely, aren't your remarks to Goose based on your perception of soldiers (or establishment employees)?

No, my perception is based upon his many post on this forum throughout many threads.

You seem to believe the whole system is corrupt* and should be completely overhauled, with no actual guide as to what it should be overhauled into. At least Goose is realistic in his perception that everyone has the potential to be corrupt.

Nowhere have I said that there is no potential for people to be corrupt. And neither do I presume to tell people what they should do, least of all willingly submit to terrorist government. No, I simply point things out, content to let the people find their own way, through education, rather than suggesting something should be imposed upon them, and through force. Nonetheless, the potential of people to be corrupt is irrelevant to what is being advocated. Namely:



... the people cant be trusted to work on there own thoughts, ...

... We need to fear our police force ...

Totalitarianism. Absolute rule by an elite through fear because 'the people' can't be trusted to work on their own thoughts. Ergo, we must tell them what to think.

Are you happy for someone else, whether under the colour of law or some other 'authority' to tell you what and how you should think, never mind behave?

Well if your going to refer to me as 'sheeple' surely i can refer to you as, 'hippy', or 'commie'.

LOL OK. Smartly answered.

Elmer
21-05-09, 15:47
Priceless!
More people should do things like this, just because it's possible:)

Goose
21-05-09, 15:53
No, my perception is based upon his many post on this forum throughout many threads.

Well then you should know im not a soldier but an Airman in that case.



Are you happy for someone else, whether under the colour of law or some other 'authority' to tell you what and how you should think, never mind behave?

Iv never even met a beat police officer, let alone been told how to behave by one, and both my parents were police constables, even growing up in that atmosphere i didn't come across them.

Be honest now, have you been accosted by a baton wielding wild eyed judge, jury and executioner?

Neteru
21-05-09, 16:00
Iv never even met a beat police officer, let alone been told how to behave by one, and both my parents were police constables, even growing up in that atmosphere i didn't come across them.

Maybe that's because you do as the 'authorities' want and don't question them. What happens if one day you want to tell your fellow men something and stand in a public place to do so and they then come and cart you away for it? What happens if you protest about something and get beaten for it and then carted away and maybe imprisoned? Because that's exactly what happens in this our 'free democracy'.

Be honest now, have you been accosted by a baton wielding wild eyed judge, jury and executioner?

Do I need to have been in order for my points to be valid?

tampi
21-05-09, 16:01
Be honest now, have you been accosted by a baton wielding wild eyed judge, jury and executioner?

^^ :pi:
The harsh reality. Not only they have weapons of legal form but also manufacture and popularize them for their benefit.

There is no solution yet for all this. All we are sold to the power of money. The only possible solution would be the discovery of a new form of energy, totally popular, free, that any of us were able to implement and benefit without the need of others.
This would bring the collapse of our actual system without power continue to manipulate society for their own benefit.

How can we achieve this kind of energy?
We are impure beings in order to have that.
And this is not a theory of a dreamer sitting in front of a computer.
The nature shows us every day that it's possible, that such "clean" exchange in universe exists.

Looking for these conversations from the real point and universal.
All It is totally ridiculous. But this is the real situation.:o

I no longer write more nonsense. :p

Maybe that's because you do as the 'authorities' want and don't question them. What happens if one day you want to tell your fellow men something and stand in a public place to do so and they then come and cart you away for it? What happens if you protest about something and get beaten for it and then carted away and maybe imprisoned? Because that's exactly what happens in this our 'free democracy'.


That is exactly what happens. Obviously you can not do it. Also because it would be unbearable.

lol I did it (wite more nonsense.... ). Human idiosyncrasy :o

Goose
21-05-09, 16:06
Maybe that's because you do as the 'authorities' want and don't question them. What happens if one day you want to tell your fellow men something and stand in a public place to do so and they then come and cart you away for it? What happens if you protest about something and get beaten for it and then carted away and maybe imprisoned? Because that's exactly what happens in this our 'free democracy'.

Your mistaking inaction for government action. To kill a civilian in afghanistan will lead alot of men to question government usage of force, and no, no-one would be carted of for saying how ****ed up it is, it would just be ignored, in-action. I am allowed to register disapproval at anything i dont like, as i live in a democracy.


Do I need to have been in order for my points to be valid?

Yes, because if you havnt seen it, your using other peoples references, and in this case, an internet one, as fact.

disneyprincess20
21-05-09, 16:06
Nowhere have I said that there is no potential for people to be corrupt.

I didn't say you said that, I implied that I agreed with Gooses comment.



And neither do I presume to tell people what they should do, least of all willingly submit to terrorist government. No, I simply point things out, content to let the people find their own way, through education, rather than suggesting something should be imposed upon them, and through force. Nonetheless, the potential of people to be corrupt is irrelevant to what is being advocated.

But as Goose rightly stated, our police force is consists of human people, people who have the capacity to be corrupt. Not all of them will become so, but they have the capacity. It's an endemic flaw in the system, but not one that means the system should be removed.


Totalitarianism. Absolute rule by an elite through fear because 'the people' can't be trusted to work on their own thoughts. Ergo, we must tell them what to think.



Personally, I think Goose used the wrong word there. 'Respect' works so much better than fear in that sentence. Respecting the police force is not totalitanarianism, it's a decent police force.



Are you happy for someone else, whether under the colour of law or some other 'authority' to tell you what and how you should think, never mind behave?


If I was entirely against any form of government, I wouldn't belong to an internet forum!
No I'm not happy to let other people tell me how to think, and that's not what I was implying from my post. I was merely implying that the word 'perception' gets used often by people who do not realise what they are saying is their own perception.

What happens if you protest about something and get beaten for it and then carted away and maybe imprisoned? Because that's exactly what happens in this our 'free democracy'.
Peaceful protesters? Really? Not so sure about that. Hundreds of peaceful protesters did not get arrested in the May day protests, because they were peaceful. You're focusing on the small number where either the protesters were violent or the police got it wrong. There were mistakes on both sides, but not everyone was "carted away" just for being there.


Aww crap, got to go, I'll finish this later.

Goose
21-05-09, 16:19
But as Goose rightly stated, our police force is consists of human people, people who have the capacity to be corrupt. Not all of them will become so, but they have the capacity. It's an endemic flaw in the system, but not one that means the system should be removed.


Exactly, there isnt a successful indoctrination program to turn a british citizen into a government robot, thats just an easy way to convince people the government is a faceless organization that you should hate. I hate labour with a passion, the military is mostly conservative anyway.


Personally, I think Goose used the wrong word there. 'Respect' works so much better than fear in that sentence. Respecting the police force is not totalitanarianism, it's a decent police force.


Well i think people should fear repercussions for actions that harm others, laws are those repercussions. But yea, respecting the police is very important.

Neteru
21-05-09, 16:49
Your mistaking inaction for government action. To kill a civilian in afghanistan will lead alot of men to question government usage of force, and no, no-one would be carted of for saying how ****ed up it is, it would just be ignored, in-action.

There have been plenty of people carted off for saying just that, and other.

I am allowed to register disapproval at anything i dont like, as i live in a democracy.

'allowed' being the operative word, and in the prescribed form only when it comes to casting a vote in an election. Any other way is not as allowed as you seem to think.

Yes, because if you havnt seen it, your using other peoples references, and in this case, an internet one, as fact.

Ah, like taking what is said by a particular government through the news media as being true and factual. That too is using other people's references.

I didn't say you said that, I implied that I agreed with Gooses comment.

I know you didn't. I was just being clear about my own position in the event that anybody might have read into it. :)

But as Goose rightly stated, our police force is consists of human people, people who have the capacity to be corrupt. Not all of them will become so, but they have the capacity. It's an endemic flaw in the system, but not one that means the system should be removed.

And neither have I suggested such a thing.

... it's a decent police force.

There are good men and women in the police force. Nobody in their right mind could deny that. There are good men and women in all walks of life. Indeed the clip I posted at the start of this thread is for the most part a good example of very reasonable police officers, and it was equally nice to see as much, as was the good humour.

Peaceful protesters? Really? Not so sure about that. Hundreds of peaceful protesters did not get arrested in the May day protests, because they were peaceful. You're focusing on the small number where either the protesters were violent or the police got it wrong. There were mistakes on both sides, but not everyone was "carted away" just for being there.

I've never suggested 'everyone'. But you seem to believe that those who have been arrested with any kind of demonstration were unquestionably violent and without provocation (and therefor any claim they have is invalid) or that the police made a mistake (and therefor that's ok). You also make an emphasis upon 'small' number, as if to diminish the relevancy of injustice. Injustice in any way, shape or form is wrong. Whether it be against one or many.

Goose
21-05-09, 16:56
There have been plenty of people carted off for saying just that, and other.

Who?

'allowed' being the operative word, and in the prescribed form only when it comes to casting a vote in an election. Any other way is not as allowed as you seem to think.

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Yes being allowed, because in alot of countries people are not 'allowed'. But in this country we are.

Ah, like taking what is said by a particular government through the news media as being true and factual. That too is using other people's references.

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Yea pretty much, have you seen enough real examples of police using force without any provocation at all?

Reggie
21-05-09, 17:11
I don't consider myself an anarchist by any means but I DO think that reform's desperately needed. The political system has been brought into disrepute plus frustration with all the lies we're constantly given by mainstream parties (and probably the niche ones too) its not surprising that more people want to see more transparency with the government and an approach to the people where we feel involved in a democracy. Right now we have an unelected Prime Minister, the expenses scandal continues to unfold and as a result noone has faith anymore. Repeatedly our trust has breached and our demands ignored and the latest events have hopefully been the tipping point.
Hopefully we can see the reform we so desperately need. That's not idealistic, that's just common sense if we're going to insist on calling ourselves a democratic nation.

Forwen
21-05-09, 17:55
8 pages into the thread and Neteru has provided nothing factual to support his embarrassingly vague claims and demands which are as grandiose as they're poor in specifics, well apart from a video where a guy yelling in front of a building which people are trying to work in is asked off steps. Care to indulge us as to exactly how the police are terrorising the British society? :(

tampi
21-05-09, 18:06
^^ That's problem! Not only British, all the world :whi:

Goose
21-05-09, 18:08
8 pages into the thread and Neteru has provided nothing factual to support his embarrassingly vague claims and demands which are as grandiose as they're poor in specifics, well apart from a video where a guy yelling in front of a building which people are trying to work in is asked off steps. Care to indulge us as to exactly how the police are terrorising the British society? :(

Using this as an example of Police terrorizing people:

Hkb2Q-jG86A

Can we find the same of police here doing that, unprovoked?

Forwen
21-05-09, 18:08
Speaking of which...

There is no solution yet for all this. All we are sold to the power of money. The only possible solution would be the discovery of a new form of energy, totally popular, free, that any of us were able to implement and benefit without the need of others.

Thermonuclear fusion. That's my idealism. It'll work, you'll see :o

EDIT: Goose, I'm not sure what happens there? Some policemen are beating up some... employees...? But why? One of the comment says that the policemen's friend was killed because of wrong information given to the police by those people so that would mean it was their own initiative, but were they prosecuted for it? If so then it's a case closed.

EDIT2: I found this in comments "This happened in Perm Russia. I saw it on their TV. The 3 men the cop was after had given him bad information on a drug bust. One of his friends was shot. Who knows how it went down but the cop was angry. He was given a 6 month mandatory leave and sent to another city. Police work is tough, especially in a place like Russia." Provided it's true, 6 month mandatory leave isn't a terribly harsh punishment but my point is, this particular attack was neither symptomatic of Russian police (since it was emotional/personal) nor did it go unnoticed.

Goose
21-05-09, 18:14
EDIT: Goose, I'm not sure what happens there? Some policemen are beating up some... employees...? But why? One of the comment says that the policemen's friend was killed because of wrong information given to the police by those people so that would mean it was their own initiative, but were they prosecuted for it? If so then it's a case closed.

As far as we can see, some guys are sitting at slot machines (or somthing), the police come in and beat the crap out of some guys who are totally submissive.

CO19 and american SWAT dont even treat gunman like that.

If your reading youtube comments then ignore it, the original comment you used was from the uk.

TRexbait
22-05-09, 00:58
You're thoughts are running away with themselves based upon an evident grievance already existent in your mind concerning how this forum is managed. The phrase 'axe to grind' comes to mind.

It was my purpose to post a subject of substance (yes, substance, not some spam), and wait a while to see how people reacted to it.
Grievance? No, it's not that, I'm actually content with how the forum is run. I also don't think that the thread was posted on a subject of spam, in one of my posts i said that a "thread with a serious topic, such as this one, may get off to a bad start."
My original question of "Would you have let the thread survive if it was posted by a normal member?" remains unanswered. I wasn't implying (or trying to at least) that this thread was spam, but was meaning to say that is was, again, a serious thread with a serious topic which got's off to a bad start (in regards to some replies like "9:54 of my life back or GTFO"). Cataphract then led me to another question which was based that the decision to keep the thread open is sometimes based on previous threads made by the user. If a thread of this sort, with a serious topic that gets off to a "bad" start, were posted by a "bad" member, would it have less of a chance of remaining open. What if it was a bad member?