A helping hand

[Quasimodo]

What is your view on hint systems and movement automation in games? Some examples would be having the game correct or lengthen jumps in scripted areas, tutorials and button prompts that flash on the screen throughout the game, and so on.

Is this a good way to include people new to gaming, or is it just dumbing games down?

[Survival]

It´s impossible to describe how much I hate it. Especially when it´s forced and unskippable.

I think they´re trying too hard... where are the times all you had to do was to read manual or pop-up windows that could´ve been disabled. Are people too lazy to read three pages of text or too dumb to understand what does "press (X) for jump" mean?

If anything they should make tutorial available but not as a part of the game but as stand-alone level you´re not forced to go through at the start of each new game.

Same goes for constant button prompts, hints and scripted jumps of course since they´re basically the same thing.

[Dia2blo]

To be entirely honest, sometimes i buy certain games (that i am not hugely interested in) which i hope to play through without so much as a challenge. Therefore things such as hints come as second nature to me.

However, with those that i do have an interest in, it really irks me to be attacked by hint icons, or drawn a path of where to go (e.g. Dead space).

So basically what i'm trying to say is, yes in some games i use the system, but i would feel much more comfortable if no games had these systems, it would not be a loss, but would simply take longer (or actually require effort) for me to finish these games.

[Atlantean-Squid]

My view - and I'm sure I won't be the only person to say this - is that automated assistance to that degree is a wholly bad idea. The problem for me isn't that it makes games too easy, as there are other ways to increase difficulty; it's that it's a constant reminder that it's just a game you're playing. It's like watching a film with a friend who's seen it before and having them constantly telling you how good/funny/scary "this bit coming up right now" is. If a game is making an effort to bring a certain atmosphere to life, popup hints are only going to destroy it. The Half-Life games are good examples of how to be immersive, wheras the Metroid Prime games are serious offenders. Obviously, this is going to matter a whole lot less for games where there's little to no emphasis on immersion, like racing or football games.

Having the game correct your mistakes isn't so bad, as long as it's a constant feature of the engine. For example, in the Super Smash Bros series, your character will be able to grab a ledge even if they don't quite jump into reaching distance. Similarly, when you perform a running jump in any classic Tomb Raider game, Lara will launch herself off of thin air if the platform doesn't quite have enough space for a full run-up.

I should really go to bed =(

[tim_k]

Is this a good way to include people new to gaming, or is it just dumbing games down?

Dumbing it down is a way to include people new to gaming. A good way? I really don't know. What other alternative is there?

If it's practical for the devs, any sort of helping hand should be completely optional... I'm guessing most of the time, the ability to toggle such features on or off isn't easy to implement.

I'm reminded of the elevator sequence from HL2 episode one... it was the hardest part of the game, and the most satisfying to get through... I literally had a sliver of health left at the end. But a few weeks after the game was released Valve permanently toned down the difficultly on that section by an update through Steam.

[Reggie]

I think that hint systems are fine because they give the newbie an oppurtunity to learn and take in the control system that needs to be mastered for the new game they're playing but movement automation is another story. I think that is one of the worst things that ever happened to the TR series because what automated, scripted-for-you gameplay says is that the developers are either too lazy to create a system that places control into the players hands or they simply lack faith in their target market that they'll be able to cope with anything less than a given set of grabbable platforms and a 1-way-through style of gameplay. For some games, the scripted style works anyway but for others, like the TR series, going down the dumbing down route (which is what it basically is IMO) is a big no no.

[Ward Dragon]

I like it when games have a brief tutorial section at the beginning to learn the controls and game mechanics. I hate it when the game automatically does things for me or gives me mandatory hints throughout the game.

[adventurerLara]

I like it when games have a brief tutorial section at the beginning to learn the controls and game mechanics. I hate it when the game automatically does things for me or gives me mandatory hints throughout the game.

Exactly :tmb:

[Dia2blo]

What happened to the days when difficulty increased with game progression?

[Sir Croft]

I like it when games have a brief tutorial section at the beginning to learn the controls and game mechanics. I hate it when the game automatically does things for me or gives me mandatory hints throughout the game.

Word :tmb:

[Survival]

I like it when games have a brief tutorial section at the beginning to learn the controls and game mechanics. I hate it when the game automatically does things for me or gives me mandatory hints throughout the game.

But what if the game forces you to play through same section everytime you start playing from the beginning?

[Ward Dragon]

But what if the game forces you to play through same section everytime you start playing from the beginning?

That's silly then (unless it's only around 5 minutes long and essential for the plot :p)

[Survival]

That's silly then (unless it's only around 5 minutes long and essential for the plot :p)

Yeah I can´t remember the titles right now but there are at least three games in my collection with 30 minutes long unskippable tutorials :hea::D.

[Dennis's Mom]

I'm not a big fan of them. Very short tutorial levels are OK, but I keep falling asleep during the one for Assassin's Creed. (When I was falling asleep during
the game, I knew it was not for me. :D)

Let's face it--the training level in TR4 is the worst thing about the game.

I would prefer good documentation and "online instructions," or an optional training level you can enter and exit.

[Dia2blo]

I'm not a big fan of them. Very short tutorial levels are OK, but I keep falling asleep during the one for Assassin's Creed. (When I was falling asleep during
the game, I knew it was not for me. :D)

Let's face it--the training level in TR4 is the worst thing about the game.

I would prefer good documentation and "online instructions," or an optional training level you can enter and exit.

But in TR4 you could skip whatever Von Croy said, essentially making it just like any other level.. I thought that was more of a good training level.

[MiCkiZ88]

I hate it. And I ESPECIALLY hate scripted jumps (Longer or shorter than usual) just to make something look either epic or to help make a short hop on a pole or something. I see how it can help the player and ease the frustration.. but it takes away the freedom of doing things on my own.

[Dennis's Mom]

But in TR4 you could skip whatever Von Croy said, essentially making it just like any other level.. I thought that was more of a good training level.

Hated young Lara. Thought she was a snot. And you really can't skip it initially, since you need to do whatever Von Croy tells you to. I would prefer to just skip the entire level.

[irjudd]

The best way included in any game is an optional tutorial at the beginning to help those who are too lazy to RTFM get accustomed to the controls and game mechanics. This can include an entire section dedicated or the first level having onscreen prompts.

Mandatory tutorials are an insult to skilled gamers. The lack of any tutorial option is an insult to noobs.

[Dingaling]

I don't mind tutorials though I agree overly long and unskippable (if, at least, you've already completed the game) are annoying. I read the manual (most of the time) but I still like to get to grips with the controls successfully before jumping completely into the game. I don't mind tutorial text as you go along the first one or two levels (and if anything new comes up far later in the game) either as that eliminates the seperate level aspect to the game. Tomb Raider: Legend was awful for the tutorial text as it came through the entire game practically.

Hints and all are fine as long as they're optional.