View Full Version : Is it just me or was this a waste?
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:06
:confused: :O
I cannot believe you just said that.
:confused: :O
I cannot believe you just said that.
Seconded!
Super Badnik
27-07-09, 21:07
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
No, we get this kind of thing shoved down our throats all the time. Anyway, i actually preffered Underworld to Legend. Legend was combat focused and linear while Underworld felt like a next gen Tomb Raider.
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:09
Seconded!
It was visually beautiful, crystal dynamics listened to what fans wanted and reated a legend/anniversary style gameplay and I thought the game/storyline was interesting It's definately one of my favourite games so I am SOOOO glad somebody seconds me :ton::hug:
It was visually beautiful, crystal dynamics listened to what fans wanted and reated a legend/anniversary style gameplay and I thought the game/storyline was interesting It's definately one of my favourite games so I am SOOOO glad somebody seconds me :ton::hug:
Yes they are good games,legend is my favorit amoung the 3 CD´s games but the classics still my favorits but doens´t mean the CD games suck!:p
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:14
Yes they are good games,legend is my favorit amoung the 3 CD´s games but the classics still my favorits but doens´t mean the CD games suck!:p
I think both companies's games are excellent, and they're different in a way that I can't compare. And yeah Legend is awesome :ton:
I think both companies's games are excellent, and they're different in a way that I can't compare. And yeah Legend is awesome :ton:
But is unforgivable they removed the braid,classic outfit and the old Manor!:smk:
:p
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:45
But is unforgivable they removed the braid,classic outfit and the old Manor!:smk:
:p
i know that was a bit naughty of them :ton:
i still reckon they should have an option of ponytail or braid to keep everyone happy.
i know that was a bit naughty of them :ton:
i still reckon they should have an option of ponytail or braid to keep everyone happy.
I have seen the beta trailers and in legend she has the braid i think is better than the ponytail but lara would be using braid forever:ton:
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:50
I have seen the beta trailers and in legend she has the braid i think is better than the ponytail but lara would be using braid forever:ton:
hehe yeah but apparently they had difficulties with the braid on legend :(
@marikisu - why not give underworld a chance? thialand is a beautiful level.
The braid looks fine to me!:confused::D
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:55
The braid looks fine to me!:confused::D
yeah same but they had difficulties with it, like it was very glitchy :ton:
yeah same but they had difficulties with it, like it was very glitchy :ton:
They have ways to fix it!:tea::D
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 21:59
They have ways to fix it!:tea::D
they had to make the game in time for christmas so yeah they could have but not really in the time they had, woud have been cool though ;)
they had to make the game in time for christmas so yeah they could have but not really in the time they had, woud have been cool though ;)
They had power to delay the game:o:D
but even soo i don´t think this game was a waste:)
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 22:08
@ marukisu - it's because the game was motion-captured, so lara has the abilitys of a human, because after all she is not a superhero.
@ cristina - hehe yeah you're right :hug:
about both things :) underworld entertains me so much, iv completed it several times :ton:
Am I the only one who feels this way?
*takes incredibly long gasp as if prepared to make a speech*
Yes.
:p
just croft
27-07-09, 22:42
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
In terms of plot not it's not just you, there's a whole lot of fans feeling that way too.
xXhayleyroxXx
27-07-09, 22:44
In terms of plot not it's not just you, there's a whole lot of fans feeling that way too.
how was the plot so bad?
just croft
27-07-09, 22:46
how was the plot so bad?
It sucked period.
Sorry you just got me in a bad mood today, if you really want to know the reasons in a sort-of-a long well strucktured post you'll have to bug me with a pm someother time or go read my posts. No offence to you.
only ne addition that would Underworld perfect, if they added the DLC levels to the original game, it would add lengeth and verity :jmp:
Underworld was a waste, so it's not just you. :)
Super Badnik
27-07-09, 23:10
Underworld was a waste, so it's not just you. :)No it wasn't:ton:
I think it's a dumb reason to hate Underworld simply because of the plot. :rolleyes: People need to remember that these are games, not movies. :p
Besides, I think the plot was fantastic, it just needed better development.
how was the plot so bad?
It definitely couldve been better, it was far from perfect.
TBH didnt even feel like there was any story whatsoever.
Half assed plot actually is spot on IMO.
And I dont think its the only reason to hate the game but to say its dumb is pushing it down his throat.
I really don't understand you.
You were never satisfied.
I think it's a fantastic and EPIC game, the graphics are gorgeous and very realistic, the moves are smooth, crystal wanted to improve the combat system, now we have great combos and the bullet time which is so spectacular I think, love it. The story also very exciting and suprising. This "doppelganger" idea was on eof the best things in TR for me. :D etc..etc.. I think it's a complete and finished game with the 2 expansion levels. You think it's incomplete just because we all have seen the outtaked leaked informations and characters.
That's my opinion.
Maybe I'm too narrow. :)
(Ah, and sorry for my imperfect english. :))
TRULuverzz
28-07-09, 06:48
Seconded!
Thirded :ohn:
I thought it was underdeveloped way before the leaked stuff came out. :confused:
Yes, but if it's never leak, then you never know about it.
I dont mean underdeveloped as it didnt include extra levels and stuff im talking about underdeveloped meaning I thought they sis a half ass job on the plot and the character development was weak. The leaked info had no influence on that opinion.
Ok, I've got it.
just croft
28-07-09, 10:20
I think it's a dumb reason to hate Underworld simply because of the plot. :rolleyes: People need to remember that these are games, not movies. :p
Besides, I think the plot was fantastic, it just needed better development.
Fine I'm dumb, for me there are games that have to tell a story just like in movies, to make things even better you're in it. Now if the plot was so fantastic it wouldn't have needed better development would it?
I really don't understand you.
You were never satisfied.
I think it's a fantastic and EPIC game, the graphics are gorgeous and very realistic, the moves are smooth, crystal wanted to improve the combat system, now we have great combos and the bullet time which is so spectacular I think, love it. The story also very exciting and suprising. This "doppelganger" idea was on eof the best things in TR for me. :D etc..etc.. I think it's a complete and finished game with the 2 expansion levels. You think it's incomplete just because we all have seen the outtaked leaked informations and characters.
That's my opinion.
Maybe I'm too narrow. :)
(Ah, and sorry for my imperfect english. :))
Right... So skipping that epic bunch of surprising lies. No I don't think it was incomplete becuase we knew it all... I think it was incomplete becuase it has a cheesy and obvious plot, which didn't make it exciting at all, still with magnetized combat (not refering to auto aim), unrealistic temples and the comback of two amazing characters that have been completely ruined (so long the time of Bacon Lara (http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/07/100-things-your-kids-may-never-know-about?npu=1&mbid=yhp)).
As for the complete game? Well yes it wasn't exactly incomplete but it was a short game which I am so glad I didn't buy because it's not worth the price.
Lastly the 2 extra DLC levels story isn't has pretty when told fact by fact and not by Microsoft fan-boys... maybe you should take a look at this: »Poll« (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=155447) The DLC content by the way was started after the game was finished and was based upon cut content from the main game. To things to note then: 1 - if it was worth cutting why was it worth making a standalone download which you also have to pay for and 2 - only 30.87% of fans in this forum would be able to play it, and they would still have to pay...
Underworld was a waste, so it's not just you. :)
:yik:
Underworld is a good game! :smk:
:p
I'm sad that you guys haven't enjoyed the game. I surely did. I bought it for all the platforms I own. I even bought the DLC for 360. I quite liked it. It took more time after being finished for me to want to replay it, that's true, but I quite enjoyed the game nevertheless.
xXhayleyroxXx
28-07-09, 14:01
I'm sad that you guys haven't enjoyed the game. I surely did. I bought it for all the platforms I own. I even bought the DLC for 360. I quite liked it. It took more time after being finished for me to want to replay it, that's true, but I quite enjoyed the game nevertheless.
I know it's such an excellent and enjoyable game :ton:
I know it's such an excellent and enjoyable game :ton:
Agreed. If it sucked, I wouldn't be on my 3rd play through.:D
xXhayleyroxXx
28-07-09, 15:52
Agreed. If it sucked, I wouldn't be on my 3rd play through.:D
hehe and it's such good fun to replay, youfind loads ofcool little thingsyou never noticed the first few playthroughs :ton:
miss.haggard
29-07-09, 01:16
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
I agree with you, I never much cared for the story, and the mixing up of Cores games. TRL was decent, a good next gen cross over. TRA was the best, except for the story, and TRU was a good mix, except for the story.
You are not the only one who feels this way.
I'm sad that you guys haven't enjoyed the game. I surely did. I bought it for all the platforms I own. I even bought the DLC for 360. I quite liked it. It took more time after being finished for me to want to replay it, that's true, but I quite enjoyed the game nevertheless.
The quality of the game isnt what some hate, its the plot, I find that it wanders a bit too much for my liking, seems to be one thing then another. So the OP isnt alone on the issue of the plot.
TRU is the best game in the TR series in my opinion. I really love Lara's new look and moves. I did enjoy TR1 but was never able to finish more than two levels of all the subsequent Core games. I have replayed TRU at least 30 times now and still play it. I hope CD sticks with their current format and look for future games.
Fine I'm dumb, for me there are games that have to tell a story just like in movies, to make things even better you're in it. Now if the plot was so fantastic it wouldn't have needed better development would it?
I don't judge games based on their stories or characters as games are meant to be played, not used for storytime. However, I did enjoy the plot in Underworld because it was entertaining, fun, and had a lot of shock value (for most of the people here, it did not because they were reading spoilers all day). The only flaws for me are the fact that it's poorly developed, especially compared to Legend, and my favorite characters only appeared for a few minutes total. But, I'm not gonna hate the entire game because of that. :rolleyes:
I don't judge games based on their stories or characters as games are meant to be played, not used for storytime. However, I did enjoy the plot in Underworld because it was entertaining, fun, and had a lot of shock value (for most of the people here, it did not because they were reading spoilers all day). The only flaws for me are the fact that it's poorly developed, especially compared to Legend, and my favorite characters only appeared for a few minutes total. But, I'm not gonna hate the entire game because of that. :rolleyes:
That pretty much sums up my opinion.
I like Underworld :)
I'm replaying it now. I mean, it is not magnificent, but it is far from being a crap game.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
many people feel the same way. But I really really like one thing about TRU: it finished the trilogy. We'll never see it again, time to move on. TRO is to come!
Core had more basic storylines of finding artifacts, I just dont like the need for Crystal to have turned them into emotional, sentiment storylines like Legend and Underworld did IMO.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
No you're not the only one. Underworld was complete bilge. It played badly and the story was complete arse. Given the ridiculous amount of hype it was given, it was nothing but an epic fail. I only hope to God Crystal learn from it. As far as I'm concerned, they're living on borrowed time and TRO is the last chance they're getting.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 12:02
No you're not the only one. Underworld was complete bilge. It played badly and the story was complete arse. Given the ridiculous amount of hype it was given, it was nothing but an epic fail. I only hope to God Crystal learn from it. As far as I'm concerned, they're living on borrowed time and TRO is the last chance they're getting.Hate to break it to you, but if Underworld was over hyped, that was out fault. Seriously, the rest of the world was hyping up Gears of War 2 or whatever else was coming out near the end of the year, it was only us that was overhyping Underworld. Eidos did have to release trailers, they can't just release the game one day if nobody knows about it.
Hate to break it to you, but if Underworld was over hyped, that was out fault. Seriously, the rest of the world was hyping up Gears of War 2 or whatever else was coming out near the end of the year, it was only us that was overhyping Underworld. Eidos did have to release trailers, they can't just release the game one day if nobody knows about it.
I wouldn't say people like Lindstrom and the rest of the team overusing the word "epic" to the point that it got nauseating was us over-hyping. Underworld was far from epic, it was the biggest disappointment I've had in the series so far.
It all just makes me wish that we get an AOD reboot even more since this crap of a story gets closure. :(
I'd love to see AoD remade, purely to give it the justice it deserves. Then again, the same applies to Underworld seeing as that was rushed and forced out early by Eidos too.
^^I'm not sure about that though. I think Crystal intended Natla to be in Underworld from the start.
Thinking about the plot, it was almost exactly the same as that in Legend - some very similar plot points.
1. Oh hello person that I thought was long dead but is actually alive. Only difference is that we were enemies when we last saw each other, and you're seemingly under the control of my ex-BFF.
2. Oh, I need to go all over the world to find artefacts that combine together to form a whole. One gauntlet in the Mediterranean, another in Thailand, a belt in Mexico and Thor's Hammer in Jan Mayen = the various pieces of Excalibur and the Ghalali Key in Legend.
I really liked Legend's plot, but seeing it rehashed in Underworld put a bit of a tarnish on the whole thing.
What exactly happened to Excalibur anyway? We saw a similar sword at the end of Underworld, but the one that Lara found magically disappears.
One of the few redeeming parts of the plot was Dopplehoe. As a whole, the plot needed a major re-write.
just croft
29-07-09, 13:26
Hate to break it to you, but if Underworld was over hyped, that was out fault. Seriously, the rest of the world was hyping up Gears of War 2 or whatever else was coming out near the end of the year, it was only us that was overhyping Underworld. Eidos did have to release trailers, they can't just release the game one day if nobody knows about it.
Actually, I wouldn't put the fault on the players. I choose not to buy TRU long before it came out (When the trailler came out with Natla in it at the end). I wasn't hyped at all in fact it was only many many months after that I asked a friend of mine if I could play his copy over the weekend. In the end I give it a 50/100. Didn't expect any thing else, in fact everything arround it is just way too obvious.
If the rest of you were hyped for a bad game, don't blame yourselves, you didn't make the game (not saing you could have done better in case any smart ass dares to come and quote something like this comment ever again) and you weren't envolved in it's advertising campaign.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 13:52
Actually, I wouldn't put the fault on the players. I choose not to buy TRU long before it came out (When the trailler came out with Natla in it at the end). I wasn't hyped at all in fact it was only many many months after that I asked a friend of mine if I could play his copy over the weekend. In the end I give it a 50/100. Didn't expect any thing else, in fact everything arround it is just way too obvious.
If the rest of you were hyped for a bad game, don't blame yourselves, you didn't make the game (not saing you could have done better in case any smart ass dares to come and quote something like this comment ever again) and you weren't envolved in it's advertising campaign.Underworld wasn't a bad game. It got 75-90% reviews from actual critics and it was a very decent game, the best TR has given at least in this decade. Still though, shame on Eidos for advertising their product, shame on them:ton:
I wouldn't say people like Lindstrom and the rest of the team overusing the word "epic" to the point that it got nauseating was us over-hyping. Underworld was far from epic, it was the biggest disappointment I've had in the series so farIt was epic in the way they said it would be. The big structures were huge, the Shiva, thor, and helhiem guard statues were all huge.
just croft
29-07-09, 14:11
Underworld wasn't a bad game. It got 75-90% reviews from actual critics and it was a very decent game, the best TR has given at least in this decade. Still though, shame on Eidos for advertising their product, shame on them:ton:
It was epic in the way they said it would be. The big structures were huge, the Shiva, thor, and helhiem guard statues were all huge.
Actuall critics?!? wtf mode [on] / off
What you call actuall critics is something (things not people) I've ignored for so much time now. Everyone's opinion is valid, no more and no less than those things. This is for films, games, music and so on. I make my own choices, thank you very much.
Edit: oh, and if those critics opinion what a great game TRU was, was so taken into account by buyers why did Eidos or CD or whatever I can't even remember now, had to fire a large part of their staff?
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 14:20
Actuall critics?!? wtf mode [on] / off
What you call actuall critics is something (things not people) I've ignored for so much time now. Everyone's opinion is valid, no more and no less than those things. This is for films, games, music and so on. I make my own choices, thank you very much.
Edit: oh, and if those critics opinion what a great game TRU was, was so taken into account by buyers why did Eidos or CD or whatever I can't eve remember now, had to fire a large part of their staff?In that case my opinon is valid to, and after playing through it several times i say Underworld was good;)
I think the staff got fired because they didn't make enough money in the first few months (bad sales).
just croft
29-07-09, 14:24
I think the staff got fired because they didn't make enough money in the first few months (bad sales).
Exactly, meaning that what you call actuall critics affect the sales in no way.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 14:32
Exactly, meaning that what you call actuall critics affect the sales in no way.So?
just croft
29-07-09, 14:38
What do you mean so? Just becuase "It got 75-90% reviews from actual critics and it was a very decent game, the best TR has given at least in this decade" doesn't make it a good game and sales proove it.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 14:41
What do you mean so? Just becuase "It got 75-90% reviews from actual critics and it was a very decent game, the best TR has given at least in this decade" doesn't make it a good game and sales proove it.No offense but oh God, are you for real?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ocMQSqVjweA/SGYEckQ91aI/AAAAAAAAAXI/BsrXbttLo4E/s400/FACEPALM.jpg
just croft
29-07-09, 14:49
Next time you decide to have a nice discussion on any topic it would be nice if you could make yourself a bit more clear with nice structured posts instead of thing like "so?" and "facepalm".
I'm not tring to berserker here and proove something untill my last breath, I was just trying to have a simple discussion arround that topic, but, since you clearly aren't ok with that.
I completely disagree. You 'Core lovers' really need to accept that Crystal Dynamics is moving Tomb Raider on. You lot need to get over it, seriously. :cen:
In my opinion, TR:U is an amazing game. That game was the Tomb Raider we've all been waiting for. :)
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 14:57
Next time you decide to have a nice discussion on any topic it would be nice if you could make yourself a bit more clear with nice structured posts instead of thing like "so?" and "facepalm".
I'm not tring to berserker here and proove something untill my last breath, I was just trying to have a simple discussion arround that topic, but, since you clearly aren't ok with that.Ok maybe i should have just pointed how illogical the previous statement was instead of facepalming. Sales indicate how many units the game sold, reviews indicate and determine quality. It's like saying watching the Weather dosen't give accurate information on the weather, so your going to consult the instructions on a tin of beans about it instead.
I completely disagree. You 'Core lovers' really need to accept that Crystal Dynamics is moving Tomb Raider on. You lot need to get over it, seriously. :cen:
In my opinion, TR:U is an amazing game. That game was the Tomb Raider we've all been waiting for. :)
Cant have a better game without negative feedback IMO despite the fact it was a good game.
just croft
29-07-09, 15:27
Ok maybe i should have just pointed how illogical the previous statement was instead of facepalming. Sales indicate how many units the game sold, reviews indicate and determine quality. It's like saying watching the Weather dosen't give accurate information on the weather, so your going to consult the instructions on a tin of beans about it instead.
I'm sorry but I could never ever agree with you. Lemmed generalize this a bit for more than games: Reviews by the common player/viewer are not as noticed as then one from (like you said) "actual critics" (I hate that expression), true. But that's a foolish thing to take into account when evaluating something, most of these actuall critics have done nothing more in their life than listening to music, watch films and play games and have had no actuall involvement in them, meaning thier opinion should actually be as accepted as ours (the common players/viewers). In the end the sales have to be taken into account when showing the quality of a product. Well but doesn't it happen that one buy's something and in the end they don't like it, yes but that's being naive in my honest opinion. I surely have made that mistake many times before but now after so many mistakes I'm more carefull. Look at this forum, you'll see that most of it's users are young people who are still to make this mistake several times (I'm not saying I'm old or smarter or anything, but this subject is something that's deeply taken into account in my family and it's also a part of my life) so it's only logical that you'll see lot's of users posting, "I got hyped and in the end the game wasn't so good". What you said you make sence for these people, but a large part of the world takes in account the quality of the product before buying , meaning that sales = quality. One could even transform that sentence into a whole other context and say "yeah but I was hyped becuase of the advertising information and in the end it didn't turn out exactly like that", well so did everyone else and some didn't make that mistake. 'Actuall Critics' are overrated by some of you. Thinking that a high qualitly product doesn't have good sales is the illogical otherwise it wouldn't be high quality (And don't mis-interpret that by thinking I mean Titanic is the Best Film ever, that's not what I ment). No, watching the weather channel won't give you 100% correct information for sure, but keeping an eye on the sky, your own eye, will.
I completely disagree. You 'Core lovers' really need to accept that Crystal Dynamics is moving Tomb Raider on. You lot need to get over it, seriously. :cen:
No doubt they are moving on and improoving a few things, but there are other, very important ones that need a hell of alot more work.
Cant have a better game without negative feedback IMO despite the fact it was a good game.
Yes I know :) but most people just nit pick CD's games, and it's so annoying because they never stop.
No doubt they are moving on and improoving a few things, but there are other, very important ones that need a hell of alot more work.
Other and very important things? What do you mean? :p
just croft
29-07-09, 15:36
Yes I know :) but most people just nit pick CD's games, and it's so annoying because they never stop.
Other and very important things? What do you mean? :p
Puzzles, linear game, plot, lenght. These are the most important for me that need a serious improovement, amoung a few other details, ones that I wouldn't be bothered as much.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 15:40
I'm sorry but I could never ever agree with you. Lemmed generalize this a bit for more than games: Reviews by the common player/viewer are not as noticed as then one from (like you said) "actual critics" (I hate that expression), true. But that's a foolish thing to takeing into account when evaluating something, most of these actuall critics have done nothing more in their life than listening to music, watch films, and play games, and have had no actuall involvement in them, meaning thier opinion should actually be as accepted as ours (the common players/viewers). In the end the sales have to be taken into account when showing the quality of a product. Well but doesn't it happen that one buy's something and in the end they don't like it, yes but that's being naive in my honest opinion. I surely have made that mistake many times before but now after so many mistakes I'm more carefull. Look at this forum, you'll see that most of it's users are young people who are still to make this mistake several times (I'm not saying I'm old or smarter or anything, but this subject is something that's deeply taken into account in my family and it's also a part of my life) so it's only logical that you'll see lot's of users posting, "I got hyped and in the end the game wasn't so good". What you said you make sence for these people, but a large part of the world takes in account the quality of the product before buying , meaning that sales = quality. One could even transform that sentence into a whole other context and say "yeah but I was hyped becuase of the advertising information and in the end it didn't turn out exactly like that", well so did everyone else and some didn't make that mistake. 'Actuall Critics' are overrated by some of you. Thinking that a high qualitly product doesn't have good sales is the illogical otherwise it wouldn't be high quality (And don't mis-interpret that buy thinking I mean Titanic is the Best Film ever, that's not what I ment). No the whatching the weather channel won't give you 100% correct information for sure, but keeping an eye on the sky, your own eye, will.Ok, look, sales don't show how good a quality the game is. People don't automatically know if the game is good or bad, how would they know if they hadn't have bought it so they couldn't make a decision not to buy it because it's apparentley rubbish if they do not know that. Their only way of knowing is reviews, which were good so that screws that logic up. Plus sales have improved and the game started selling faster than the previous two at least, so does that mean the game has suddenley become better? No. I think your a little naive about sales, they're way more down to popularity than quality, there was a lot of big name games, such as Gears of Wars released right next to Underworld.
Puzzles, linear game, plot, lenght. These are the most important for me that need a serious improovement, amoung a few other details, ones that I wouldn't be bothered as much.
I have to say I loved the plot, puzzles and the levels are longer, making the game reasonably long :) But I do think levels should be a tad like Core Design's - as in, about four levels per country/area.
:)
just croft
29-07-09, 16:14
Ok, look, sales don't show how good a quality the game is. People don't automatically know if the game is good or bad, how would they know if they hadn't have bought it so they couldn't make a decision not to buy it because it's apparentley rubbish if they do not know that. Their only way of knowing is reviews, which were good so that screws that logic up. Plus sales have improved and the game started selling faster than the previous two at least, so does that mean the game has suddenley become better? No. I think your a little naive about sales, they're way more down to popularity than quality, there was a lot of big name games, such as Gears of Wars released right next to Underworld.
Uhm, no... You aren't used to pay attention to makeing of's, production interviews, production articles more than to the main advertising posters/traillers and etc. are you? Becuase if you did you know that it's perfectly possible to make a thought out decision about a product with a strong possibility of being accurate before actually buying it.
I'm not saying in anyway that the sales of a product are the only thing taken into account when evaluating the quality of a product. But they are something to always take into consideration in any case.
What you are now trying to say is illogical because no one buys anything blindfolded, unless you're rich and don't have problems doing it.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 16:41
Uhm, no... You aren't used to pay attention to makeing of's, production interviews, production articles more than to the main advertising posters/traillers and etc. are you? Becuase if you did you know that it's perfectly possible to make a thought out decision about a product with a strong possibility of being accurate before actually buying it.
I'm not saying in anyway that the sales of a product are the only thing taken into account when evaluating the quality of a product. But they are something to always take into consideration in any case.
What you are now trying to say is illogical because no one buys anything blindfolded, unless you're rich and don't have problems doing it.No, people cannot possibly know if the game is good or not unless they have played it. They may prejudge but noboday can know until they've actually got it and if they've already got it, they probably wont buy it again. And BTW, trailers are no indication of the gaming being good and suceeding. All Trailers make the game look great, so no, they couldn't tell from trailers. It's kind of baffling and convient for your point of your view that you choose to use sales to measure the quality of the game, rather than reviews. Even if reviews don't agree with what your saying, it is actually informing about the games quality, while sales have nothing to do with quality.
just croft
29-07-09, 16:59
No, people cannot possibly know if the game is good or not unless they have played it. They may prejudge but noboday can know until they've actually got it and if they've already got it, they probably wont buy it again. And BTW, trailers are no indication of the gaming being good and suceeding. All Trailers make the game look great, so no, they couldn't tell from trailers. It's kind of baffling and convient for your point of your view that you choose to use sales to measure the quality of the game, rather than reviews. Even if reviews don't agree with what your saying, it is actually informing about the games quality, while sales have nothing to do with quality.
I didn't praise traillers in my post, much on the contrary. Reviews aren't informing anyone about a products quality, they are informing the thoughts of the reviewer, weather the game is good or not is something YOU decide for yourself. The best way to do that isn't just listen to the opinion of someone that gets a paycheck everytime they do a review, it's by analising unbiased information on it.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 17:09
I didn't praise traillers in my post, much on the contrary. Reviews aren't informing anyone about a products quality, they are informing the thoughts of the reviewer, weather the game is good or not is something YOU decide for yourself. The best way to do that isn't just listen to the opinion of someone that gets a paycheck everytime they do a review, it's by analising unbiased information on it.No you still don't understand. The information on the quality comes from critics, who are unbiased. And as for trailers, i was pointing out you can't tell whether games are good or bad from them.
just croft
29-07-09, 17:18
No you still don't understand. The information on the quality comes from critics, who are unbiased. And as for trailers, i was pointing out you can't tell whether games are good or bad from them.
I do understand but I don't agree. Critics are baised right from the moment they start to get paid to do it.
miss.haggard
29-07-09, 17:27
No you still don't understand. The information on the quality comes from critics, who are unbiased. And as for trailers, i was pointing out you can't tell whether games are good or bad from them.
I do understand but I don't agree. Critics are baised right from the moment they start to get paid to do it.
I have to kind of agree with just croft here. Reviewers can be biased for many reasons, maybe they dont like the way TR is going, and have it out for it since the beginning, or there may be other reasons. But its true that maybe just because a reviewer gives something a 75-90% doesnt mean its a 75-90% game. What did Gears get? Like 100%? I didnt like it... I know plenty of other people who dont like it.
The review can help or hinder. Either way, TRU didnt live up to ALOT of expectations to alot of people. You like it just fine? Well good, Im glad you werent sorely disappointed like alot of other people. The only reason we are arguing this point about TRO, is that we dont want to be let down again.
I would rather let TR die where it stands than become something I dont want it to be.
I would rather let TR die where it stands than become something I dont want it to be.
A painful truth, but truth nonetheless.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 17:34
I do understand but I don't agree. Critics are baised right from the moment they start to get paid to do it.They get paid to review, they don't get paid to give the game good scores. Have you seen how they took some games apart? If their biased why didn't AOD or Chronicles get good reviews? I think your in a bit of a denial:mis:
They get paid to review, they don't get paid to give the game good scores. Have you seen how they took some games apart? If their biased why didn't AOD or Chronicles get good reviews? I think your in a bit of a denial:mis:
Regardless of who they are, what they get paid and what qualifications they have, a review is an individual opinion. It's completely illogical to say no reviewer is unbiased because everyone has their own opinions.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 17:42
Regardless of who they are, what they get paid and what qualifications they have, a review is an individual opinion. It's completely illogical to say no reviewer is unbiased because everyone has their own opinions.Yes, but plus the fact i think all critics gave it around 70-90% it gives a pretty balanced idea of the game's quality.
Yes, but plus the fact i think all critics gave it around 70-90% it gives a pretty balanced idea of the game's quality.
Given Eidos' track record when it comes to trying to veto bad reviews (Kane & Lynch anyone?), I wouldn't trust reviews of their games anyway. But from a more personal standpoint, I don't read reviews anyway, much less take notice of scores. It's not my review, ergo I can't take it as read that it's correct or unbiased.
Lara Fan 4Life
29-07-09, 17:47
But its true that maybe just because a reviewer gives something a 75-90% doesnt mean its a 75-90% game.
You sounded as if one reviewer gave it that, when in fact many online gaming sites and magazines gave the game a 75-90% rating.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 17:47
Given Eidos' track record when it comes to trying to veto bad reviews (Kane & Lynch anyone?), I wouldn't trust reviews of their games anyway. But from a more personal standpoint, I don't read reviews anyway, much less take notice of scores. It's not my review, ergo I can't take it as read that it's correct or unbiased.They only tried to delay reviews under 8/10.
just croft
29-07-09, 17:52
I would rather let TR die where it stands than become something I dont want it to be.
Wow, that hard to say, but it sums it up pretty well.
They get paid to review, they don't get paid to give the game good scores. Have you seen how they took some games apart? If their biased why didn't AOD or Chronicles get good reviews? I think your in a bit of a denial:mis:
Yes, but plus the fact i think all critics gave it around 70-90% it gives a pretty balanced idea of the game's quality.
I'm not in denial, I like AoD and TRC and enjoy every time I get to play one of it's levels but if I was to evaluate them I wouldn't give them a very good review myself (not negative though). And yes, they do get paid to review, I didn't mean by companies makeing games but by their employers, in the end they are nothing more than employees who have to write stuff to earn their paycheck at the end of the month - Otherwise the gigantic review posts over at forums just like this one would be taken into account by them as much as the ones from the "actuall critics".
On a last note, 70% is very far from 90%.
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
The Crystal Defense Force will be round your house any second to "re-educate" you.
Super Badnik
29-07-09, 18:23
The Crystal Defense Force will be round your house any second to "re-educate" you.We will stop "re-educating" you when you stop re-educating us. Seriously, some people just have no respect for other people around here:rolleyes:
miss.haggard
29-07-09, 18:51
You sounded as if one reviewer gave it that, when in fact many online gaming sites and magazines gave the game a 75-90% rating.
Im just going off of what badnik is saying, I never even looked at the reviews for TRU, because I knew I was buying it bad review or not.
I know that plenty of sites gave it decent reviews, but that doesnt mean that thats everyones opinion. IMO Id give it a 60%, or 6/10, or a C+, whatever.
I didnt much care for it. End. Of. Story.
We will stop "re-educating" you when you stop re-educating us. Seriously, some people just have no respect for other people around here:rolleyes:
I think Icarus60 was joking ;)
We will stop "re-educating" you when you stop re-educating us. Seriously, some people just have no respect for other people around here:rolleyes:
Isn't that the truth.
For those who say im a Core lover and nitpicky, I highly disagree. Although i prefered the direction they were going in with the AOD trilogy, I just feel whether it had been Crystal Ubisoft, or even Square Enix that produced these three games itwould have been just lackluster in terms of what Tomb Raider should be in this day & age. it is solely based on the merits of the game and not the company itself
And for the people arguing that reviews = quality game thats simpluy just fallacious
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html
The reviewers seen as being fairly expert in the field and capable of expressing their opinion in a well thought out article are paid to give their opinion on the games, yes it can sometimes be influenced by personal opinion and likes. Someone might even hate a franchise that much they will not even play the game and give it a bad review, talking about previous errors in past games and generalised opinions about the franchise and its lead character, rather than talking about the game itself. That is very rare though. If you compare all the scores the game gets it will usually average out, because some will like the game that much they will give it a higher score.
What some people seem to think a game should be in this day and age is usually not what a reviewer is looking at, playing lots of games from this day and age (since they are paid to) rather than games 10 years old, their opinions are usually a bit more up to date. Gaming has changed a lot since 1996.
I completely disagree. You 'Core lovers' really need to accept that Crystal Dynamics is moving Tomb Raider on. You lot need to get over it, seriously. :cen:
Now just imagine that phrase getting my response in the form you New-trenders prefer :mis: :p
The information on the quality comes from critics, who are unbiased.
Show us just one!
You sounded as if one reviewer gave it that, when in fact many online gaming sites and magazines gave the game a 75-90% rating.
Hey... They need boom and sales as well ;)
Seriously, some people just have no respect for other people around here :rolleyes:
What about starting to watch yourself first? :mis:
About the games: As games the trilogy (TRU especially) were not bad, but... as TR they were crap. Period. Every thing must fit it's niche (in that particular case - audience). The trilogy was a perfect example of "wrong thing at wrong place".
Mind, that's my POV not the occasion to spam :mis:
Super Badnik
30-07-09, 10:36
For those who say im a Core lover and nitpicky, I highly disagree. Although i prefered the direction they were going in with the AOD trilogy, I just feel whether it had been Crystal Ubisoft, or even Square Enix that produced these three games itwould have been just lackluster in terms of what Tomb Raider should be in this day & age. it is solely based on the merits of the game and not the company itself
And for the people arguing that reviews = quality game thats simpluy just fallacious
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.htmlCritics are not authority, and 99.9% of the time they are spot on when all there reviews of a game are put together. And they are a better indication than sales;)
Now just imagine that phrase getting my response in the form you New-trenders prefer :mis: :p
About the games: As games the trilogy (TRU especially) were not bad, but... as TR they were crap. Period. Every thing must fit it's niche (in that particular case - audience). The trilogy was a perfect example of "wrong thing at wrong place".
EscondeR, as a moderator i think you actually start more fights here than you prevent.
Anyway, completely not true. Some people need to realise TR was never going to keep it same way of doing things,of course the grid system and whatever was going to go out the window at some point.
Show us just one!Well that's the dumbest statemnt in this thread. You should be giving an example of biased critic. There will be the odd one, but i think some people just need to accept critics know what they're talking about, but you should be the one proving that this big conspiracy that all critics decided to give Underworld good scores even though it was as terrible as you say actually exists. After all, the rest of the world must be wrong not you:mis:
EscondeR was pointing out that critics are not unbiased, it is after all usually their opinion we are paying to read, not a technical post mortem on the game and its pros and cons. They tell us what they thought of the game. Some reviewers you might know have an opinion fairly close to your own, so you trust them when they give the game a 9/10, others you might think they are out of their mind for giving a game you hated an 8/10.
@ SB: If you quote, then don't cut meaning parts at least :mis:
About the games: As games the trilogy (TRU especially) were not bad, but... as TR they were crap. Period. Every thing must fit it's niche (in that particular case - audience). The trilogy was a perfect example of "wrong thing at wrong place".
compare...
About the games: As games the trilogy (TRU especially) were not bad, but... as TR they were crap. Period. Every thing must fit it's niche (in that particular case - audience). The trilogy was a perfect example of "wrong thing at wrong place".
Mind, that's my POV not the occasion to spam :mis:
Was it so hard to read?!
[1] EscondeR, as a moderator i think you actually start more fights here than you prevent.
[2] Anyway, completely not true. Some people need to realise TR was never going to keep it same way of doing things,of course the grid system and whatever was going to go out the window at some point.
[3] Well that's the dumbest statemnt in this thread. You should be giving an example of biased critic.
1. Are you responsible for your accusation?
2. What makes you think so? Only because you want it... Or better say you can't accept the standards Classics has.
3. Of course. How dare we think you should :rolleyes: Everyone who criticize as his/her main job is biased initially. That's life - time to grow up.
As usual... It won't hurt if you:
learn to think before you posting something [personal especially];
train your sense of humor (as I wasn't mentioning favourite New-trenders' response (jumping at interlocutor and yelling) for nothing, by your reply you just proved I was right);
learn to use arguments (relays to both pos. 1 and 3).
Now back playing...
xXhayleyroxXx
30-07-09, 11:48
omg EscondeR - don't cause an argument because you're a mod :ton:
im really puzzled by the the bad response this game has recieved! it's beautiful and reminded me so much of the classics :)
just croft
30-07-09, 12:07
What some people seem to think a game should be in this day and age is usually not what a reviewer is looking at, playing lots of games from this day and age (since they are paid to) rather than games 10 years old, their opinions are usually a bit more up to date. Gaming has changed a lot since 1996.
However as paid reviewers they should be looking at the big picture and not just say, "oh well you see, things will never be as they were so I think we could increase the rating here", just becuase the games are all pretty much the same between eachother now. «-- by the way this is extremely exagerated, something I don't even think that happens but it's the closest I could write to what I find misleading in your statement. I'm sorry if I can't make myself more clear but it isn't as simple as you put it.
Critics are not authority, and 99.9% of the time they are spot on when all there reviews of a game are put together. And they are a better indication than sales;)
EscondeR, as a moderator i think you actually start more fights here than you prevent.
So what? It's other people with their own personal opinions who put those things together. No one buys a product without seeing it just becuase someone said it's worth 8/10 specialy when these things cost between 40-60 euros. You analyse it by yourself otherwise how else could you decide? Jiz you make it seem like every one who's not a critic can't make his/her own mind about a product and can choose to buy based on other reviews.
As I said before, no one buys anything before knowing what it is that's he/she is buying unless they are rich!
As for what you just said to EscondeR, you should really starting seeing this as discussions and not as fights - They are completely different things and lately you've been mixing both a bit too much.
Super Badnik
30-07-09, 12:37
@ SB: If you quote, then don't cut meaning parts at least :mis:
compare...
Was it so hard to read?!
1. Are you responsible for your accusation?
2. What makes you think so? Only because you want it... Or better say you can't accept the standards Classics has.
3. Of course. How dare we think you should :rolleyes: Everyone who criticize as his/her main job is biased initially. That's life - time to grow up.
As usual... It won't hurt if you:
learn to think before you posting something [personal especially];
train your sense of humor (as I wasn't mentioning favourite New-trenders' response (jumping at interlocutor and yelling) for nothing, by your reply you just proved I was right);
learn to use arguments (relays to both pos. 1 and 3).
Now back playing...Lol, yet i doubt we have problems with other games critics have scored:rolleyes: Sometimes you just have to accept that the rest of the world's opinon isn't the same as yours.
You really need to grow up, just because someone dosen't agree with your comments, little miss, does not make it spam:mis:
in the form you New-trenders preferYou did bring the whole new trender thing back up. If you really think that someone is beaneath you, please keep it to yourself. Don't label people if you don't like being labeled yourself is the moral here.
As I said before, no one buys anything before knowing what it is that's he/she is buying unless they are rich!Exactley, sales show popularity, not quality;)
Lol, yet i doubt we have problems with other games critics have scored:rolleyes: Sometimes you just have to accept that the rest of the world's opinon isn't the same as yours.
You really need to grow up, just because someone dosen't agree with your comments, little miss, does not make it spam:mis:
You did bring the whole new trender thing back up. If you really think that someone is beaneath you, please keep it to yourself. Don't label people if you don't like being labeled yourself is the moral here.
V
I completely disagree. You 'Core lovers' really need to accept that Crystal Dynamics is moving Tomb Raider on. You lot need to get over it, seriously. :cen:
Now just imagine that phrase getting my response in the form you New-trenders prefer :mis: :p
Ever thought about "Hypocricy apogee" custom title? :p
I wonder do you read (and analyse) what you have typed before hitting "Submit reply" button. Don't you understand that accusing people in what you're yourself 100% guilty is... at least... ridiculously?
just croft
30-07-09, 12:57
Exactley, sales show popularity, not quality;)
Right... that makes perfect sense.
You are saying that if you had 50 euros to spend during an entire month on extras and there were two games comming out that month (50 euros each) you would consider checking ot their quality by yourself before buying it?
Super Badnik
30-07-09, 13:06
Right... that makes perfect sense.
You are saying that if you had 50 euros to spend during an entire month on extras and there were two games comming out that month (50 euros each) you would consider checking ot their quality by yourself before buying it?And how exactley do you think i would check out their quality? Through reviews. Your arguement isn't making any sense. Underworld was released alongside alot of big name games. Does it sudden positive boost in sales mean that the game has somehow gotten a lot better? No.
EscondeR was pointing out that critics are not unbiased, it is after all usually their opinion we are paying to read, not a technical post mortem on the game and its pros and cons. They tell us what they thought of the game. Some reviewers you might know have an opinion fairly close to your own, so you trust them when they give the game a 9/10, others you might think they are out of their mind for giving a game you hated an 8/10.
I agree, most reviewers are always gonna be biased but I think people seem to think biased is always a bad thing, sometimes when someone has a biased opinion they actually give good insight to what games are about, how they rate the gameplay etc
just croft
30-07-09, 13:12
And how exactley do you think i would check out their quality? Through reviews. Your arguement isn't making any sense. Underworld was released alongside alot of big name games. Does it sudden positive boost in sales mean that the game has somehow gotten a lot better? No.
Right... that makes perfect sense.
You are saying that if you had 50 euros to spend during an entire month on extras and there were two games comming out that month (50 euros each) you wouldn't consider checking ot their quality by yourself before buying it, you'd only listen to other people's opinions?
Sorry I clearly forgot to write some parts of that sentence as well as forgeting a "not".
Super Badnik
30-07-09, 13:24
Right... that makes perfect sense.
You are saying that if you had 50 euros to spend during an entire month on extras and there were two games comming out that month (50 euros each) you wouldn't consider checking ot their quality by yourself before buying it, you'd only listen to other people's opinions?
Sorry I clearly forgot to write some parts of that sentence as well as forgeting a "not".What? Well i could rent it, but i doubt everyone does that before getting a game. I mean, there loads of good games that didn't sell well, and loads of crap games that did sell well.
Bestselling Crap (http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/f/bestselling-crap/a-2007060713592079079/g-20060510115638234042)
Undersold Games. (http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/f/the-50-most-overlooked-games-of-this-generation/a-2009052111572735079/g-20060216134040559084)
What? Well i could rent it, but i doubt everyone does that before getting a game. I mean, there loads of good games that didn't sell well, and loads of crap games that did sell well.
Bestselling Crap (http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/f/bestselling-crap/a-2007060713592079079/g-20060510115638234042)
Undersold Games. (http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/f/the-50-most-overlooked-games-of-this-generation/a-2009052111572735079/g-20060216134040559084)
I havent rented a game for years, given I use Xbox Live I now use demos to decide if a game was quality, but Underworld for some reason I didnt, just wanted to get into the game without spoiling it with a demo.
just croft
30-07-09, 13:30
What? Well i could rent it, but i doubt everyone does that before getting a game. I mean, there loads of good games that didn't sell well, and loads of crap games that did sell well.
Bestselling Crap (http://www.gamesradar.com/wii/f/bestselling-crap/a-2007060713592079079/g-20060510115638234042)
Undersold Games. (http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/f/the-50-most-overlooked-games-of-this-generation/a-2009052111572735079/g-20060216134040559084)
Demos, Making of's, Production videos - Ones that don't yell the word EPIC every 10 seconds, and believe me those that do can really help you to not buy the game.
As for the Bestselling crap - I wouldn't know cuz I didn't play it, but the funny thing about that link it that it was yet just another paid reviewer review.
Lastly the Undersold games - Out of all that crap I only bought TRA which gladly is no longer in my games collection.
xXhayleyroxXx
30-07-09, 13:33
Demos, Making of's, Production videos - Ones that don't yell the word EPIC every 10 seconds, and believe me those that do can really help you to not buy the game.
As for the Bestselling crap - I wouldn't know cuz I didn't play it, but the funny thing about that link it that it was yet just another paid reviewer review.
Lastly the Undersold games - Out of all that crap I only bought TRA which gladly is no longer in my games collection.
wuttttt anniversary is great
wuttttt anniversary is great
Ill kindly admit the game is nothing like the original having played it in the past.
Anniversarys good though but nothing like 1.
Lara Fan 4Life
30-07-09, 13:41
Ill kindly admit the game is nothing like the original having played it in the past.
Anniversarys good though but nothing like 1.
I don't think it was intended to be a complete remake of TR1 in the first place. Crystal changed stuff so they could fit the storyline in with Legend and Underworld and could use Natla.
just croft
30-07-09, 13:43
I don't think it was intended to be a complete remake of TR1 in the first place. Crystal changed stuff so they could fit the storyline in with Legend and Underworld and could use Natla.
I didn't mind the fact that it wasn't exactly like TR1, if it was then why redo-it when it's done? But in the end it just didn't feel ok, specially in terms of satisfying their own messed up plot *vomits*.
Stories dont always make for a good game, Assassins Creed and a couple others had decent plots but I didnt enjoy the game.
If they comment was for me, I agree, but in the case of TR it generated a lot of complaints amongst fas in terms of gameplay and plot, so in that case I would be willing to play through the game more if it had something to keep my interest. That was the case with AOD for me and why I could overlook all of the bad gameplay aspects.
Agreed, the plot if its gonna be great also has to be backed up with good gameplay, for me though if the gameplay is good but the story isnt then its an advantage because the storyline then can be forgotten about during the game, well I find it that way anyway.
CerebralAssassin
31-07-09, 06:13
TRU did stink plotwise....but the scenery and gameplay more than compensated for that fact.It was challenging,I actually got stuck at some places.my only other gripe with it was that it was too short IMO:(
Shark_Blade
02-08-09, 12:04
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(Agree.
The series are better off with Core imo. CD games their last three attempts didn't satisfy me. 3 chances already! My God.
ZapTheLadyBird
12-08-09, 15:26
I liked TRL and TRA, but I agree. Underworld was however long it took to complete of my life that I'll never see again. No way am I doing the hunt for the artifacts after that.
I want them to continue making them though, or I shall die. But I shall also die if they make another game like underworld...
I mean after AOD i was all for a Lara reboot/return, but it seems like they would have just been better of letting Core still make the game or just let it die.
Legend was a good start albeit the gameplay was more action oriented.
Then we get Anniversary which slightly rewrites the continuity.
Then with Underworld it just mixes a whole bunch of **** together and gives a half ass plot, with a half ass conclusion.
Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused: :(
:p I definately feel this way as well.;)
Seconded!
thirdishish
I care more about gameplay than plot anyway.
I really like Legend, Anniversary and Underworld because I think they have good storyline :)
TRU did stink plotwise....but the scenery and gameplay more than compensated for that fact.It was challenging,I actually got stuck at some places.my only other gripe with it was that it was too short IMO:(
You mean sucked plotwise. Well My favorite CD game is TRA as it was the longest and most challenging CD game yet TRU ain't bad either but legend sucked the most the shortest game plotwise etc.
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