PDA

View Full Version : Coffee Shops Hate Laptop Squatters


Catracoth
09-08-09, 18:15
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html#mod=rss_US_News

A sign at Naidre's, a small neighborhood coffee shop in Brooklyn, N.Y., begins warmly: "Dear customers, we are absolutely thrilled that you like us so much that you want to spend the day..."

But, it continues, "...people gotta eat, and to eat they gotta sit." At Naidre's in Park Slope and its second location in nearby Carroll Gardens, Wi-Fi is free. But since the spring of 2008, no laptops have been allowed between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. weekdays and 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. weekends, unless the customer is eating and typing at the same time.

Good. I mean, people go to cafes to eat and if people are in there sucking up WiFi like greedy bottom-feeders, they can't because there's nowhere to sit. I can't tell you how many times I went to Panera Bread with friends and had to complain because there were always booths unavailable because single people would hog them for laptop use.

edit: People clearly do not understand that there is more to the article than what is quoted. Please read the entire thing in the link provided before posting an uneducated comment thus exampled on Page 2.

rowanlim
09-08-09, 18:30
Hmm I never go to coffee shops that have the WiFi service (coz the coffee's too damn expensive :p), but I think there's got to be a balance between serving customers & allowing people to take up places to use the internet.

Naidre's did the right thing, I guess.

Cheapskate Net hoggers.

TRfan23
09-08-09, 20:08
lol this reminds me when I was in Center Parks back in April, and they only had free wi-fi where the cafe's were. The place I stayed in was very close to one, so I got free Internet access there :D

Tombraiderx08
09-08-09, 20:12
well, thats probably because they get really busy, places around here, you can get a cup of coffee at opening time, sit there all day until closing time and nobody would complain

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 11:48
Well, the Wi-Fi is free, and one can't eat and type at the same time, I think it just comes with the free Wi-Fi, so they souldn't complain.

Goose
10-08-09, 12:01
Cheapskate Net hoggers.

So what did you do before you had net at home Jo? :whi:

Catracoth
10-08-09, 13:56
Well, the Wi-Fi is free, and one can't eat and type at the same time, I think it just comes with the free Wi-Fi, so they souldn't complain.

They have all the right to complain. Wi-Fi is a service they provide in the restaurant for customers to use, but that doesn't give them the right to just go to the place just to soak up the free Internet--there are actually paying customers who want to eat, and the laptop squatters are hogging the space.

Being able to use Wi-Fi is restaurants is not a right, it's a privilege.

Admles
10-08-09, 14:03
We have places like that here, but the internet is only available to paying customers; they just create an account for you when you get your coffee and it expires when you leave, or something along those lines.

It's great!

myrmaad
10-08-09, 14:11
Sort of sounds like a bait and switch scheme to me. If I'm traveling in New York, a big role in my decision of where to stay is going to be the ease of internet access. So don't lure me in, take my money and then expect me to rush out.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 14:28
They have all the right to complain. Wi-Fi is a service they provide in the restaurant for customers to use, but that doesn't give them the right to just go to the place just to soak up the free Internet--there are actually paying customers who want to eat, and the laptop squatters are hogging the space.

Being able to use Wi-Fi is restaurants is not a right, it's a privilege.

Free is free, people don't go in there JUST for the Wi-Fi (and if they do, they buy a coffee too most of the time). Either they charge the Wi-fi, so only "serious customers" can use it, make a special place for people who expect to use the Wi-Fi for a longer period, or they shouldn't complain. Free is free, people will always make use of that, no matter where..

Catracoth
10-08-09, 14:31
Free is free, people don't go in there JUST for the Wi-Fi (and if they do, they buy a coffee too most of the time). Either they charge the Wi-fi, so only "serious customers" can use it, make a special place for people who expect to use the Wi-Fi for a longer period, or they shouldn't complain. Free is free, people will always make use of that, no matter where..

Either way, the restaurant has the right to ask you to leave. Like I said, just because the Wi-Fi in the restaurant is free does NOT mean you have a right to use it. The restaurant can choose to disallow you use of it if they please.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 14:42
That's like giving a lollypop to a child and pulling it out of its hands just as he's about to eat it.

If you don't want certain customers to use your free Wi-Fi, don't put any free Wi-Fi in your place at all.. It's asking for trouble, and if they send those customers away, be prepared to never see that person or his friends there ever again.. Wi-Fi users are paying customers, okay they might've only bought a coffee or a sandwich, but he/she is still a paying customer.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 14:44
You've missed the entire point, clearly.

The point is, they don't mind people using the Wi-Fi as long as they're actually a paying customer. They don't like people going in there just to use the Wi-Fi when there are people who actually want to eat but can't because those sucking up the Internet take up space. As long as you're actually a customer, they don't mind you using the Internet, just as long as you're not there all day.

I don't know how to make that any clearer for you. The point I'm trying to make is that just because restaurants offer Wi-Fi doesn't mean you automatically get to use it all day every day. That's rude and inconsiderate.

TRexbait
10-08-09, 14:45
Well, cafes aren't for wifi, they're for eating. If they really want wifi so badly, they can go to the library.

myrmaad
10-08-09, 14:55
I think you may have missed my point. The quote you submitted strongly implies that you're expected to get your meal and then leave so that someone else can get their meal and leave and so on.

Now, if you've ever visited with a friend in a busy restaurant (without WiFi), you know that some places start to glare at you if you are still drinking coffee and chatting once they've cleared your plates away.

They installed the wifi encouraging customers to come and sit for a while, but they are making it clear that once they clear your plates you're expected to get out, wifi or not. I don't think it matters to them that you are a paying customer after they clear your plates.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 14:59
I think you may have missed my point. The quote you submitted strongly implies that you're expected to get your meal and then leave so that someone else can get their meal and leave and so on.

Well then maybe you should have read the rest of the article to refrain from looking like a modern ignoramus.

Now, if you've ever visited with a friend in a busy restaurant (without WiFi), you know that some places start to glare at you if you are still drinking coffee and chatting once they've cleared your plates away.

Not really, considering you're still there with your beverage. If you just sit there without anything ordered, you are usually asked to leave if you're there a long period of time, but only usually when it's a busy day.

They installed the wifi encouraging customers to come and sit for a while, but they are making it clear that once they clear your plates you're expected to get out, wifi or not. I don't think it matters to them that you are a paying customer after they clear your plates.

They installed Wi-Fi as a bonus to being there. They made it clear that you may use the Wi-Fi, but not all day every day because there are customers who actually want to eat.

Jesus Christ, how much clearer could I be?

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:11
I've never seen a Wi-fi user in a restaurant NOT buying anything, I don't know where you hang out, but here and in Japan it's just very awkward to use Wi-Fi without buying anything, THAT is rude, but if you buy something, even if it's just a coffee, I think you should have all the right to stay there as long as you like (not all day obviously)

(and I'm not saying this because I do so every day, in fact, I've never used Wi-Fi in restaurants, I'm just saying this from a customer perspective)

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:12
Well as I would hope you'd know, things are different in other places. And everyone knows the Japanese have more manners these days than the Americans anyway.

MattTR
10-08-09, 15:15
If the person bought coffee, that's another story, but just to go and set and use the internet, yeah I don't think that's right.

Doesn't matter to me, I never go to them.. :vlol:

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:15
Well as I would hope you'd know, things are different in other places. And everyone knows the Japanese have more manners these days than the Americans anyway.

Obviously

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:16
Obviously

And you just proved me wrong.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:19
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html#mod=rss_US_News

edit: People clearly do not understand that there is more to the article than what is quoted. Please read the entire thing in the link provided before posting an uneducated comment.

And you just proved me wrong.

:rolleyes:

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:20
That wasn't being rude, that was stating the truth. Now, getting back on topic before another argument is ignited...

myrmaad
10-08-09, 15:23
You're the one who based your argument on that quote, and I'm not convinced, and my dear, I'd put my intelligence plus experience against yours any day of the week.

"everyone knows" = isn't an argument.

And since I've been to literally thousands of restaurants and have ordered something at every one of them, I can tell you from experience your "not really" is wrong. You can still be drinking coffee or having tea and you will still get the glare because tips and profits both depend on high volume rotation of customers in and out. That's just logic and corroborates my experience. Be careful who you call names.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:23
I think it was kinda rude actually, because you are openly stating that the commentors after your original post posted uneducated messages.

Just because someone disagrees with the original point, doesn't make them dumb, or "uneducated"


So well anyway, I disagree, and I guess we just have to agree on that, the idea of sending away or blocking laptoppers from restaurants is imo stupid.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:28
And since I've been to literally thousands of restaurants and have ordered something at every one of them, I can tell you from experience your "not really" is wrong. You can still be drinking coffee or having tea and you will still get the glare because tips and profits both depend on high volume rotation of customers in and out.

Well then all I can tell you is that things are different when you go certain places. If you have as much intelligence as you claim, you should know that.

Dennis's Mom
10-08-09, 15:29
I don't think the problem is people not buying anything; the problem is people overstaying their welcome to the point where new customers cannot find a seat. Indeed, people may look in the window and select another place because all the seats are taken in this one. That's business lost.

As a former foodserver, I am definitely in charity with people trying to make a living. I remember coming in to work one Friday night, and the afternoon server asked me if I would take over a ticket so she could clock out. The ticket was a lone guy sitting at a two-top with a cup of coffee. He proceeded to sit there ALL NIGHT sipping a cup of coffee listening to his CD player. It was Friday night, I only had four tables, and one is taken up for HOURS by a dude with a $1.50 tab. He cost me quite a bit in tips because I could not turn the table. I did ask the manager if there was anything he could do, but he said since the guy wasn't being disruptive, there was nothing he could do.

In this case, even if food servers are not involved, it is still inconsiderate to "camp" for hours just to browse when there are people who need seats simply to eat. However, "kicking people out" for using a service you offered is bad business also. I would say the free wi-fi has to go. Find some way to limit the service since you can't count on common courtesy in this case. I do consider it courteous to give up your seat to a customer who needs it to eat.

Reggie
10-08-09, 15:29
I love going to coffee shops and yes, when I'm with friends I do stick around for quite a long time but if I do spend a long time I give a tip (I don't mind either because the one I go to is very good). But as for kicking out those who go there purely for the wi-fi, I'm a bit torn on that issue. There's obviously a good reason why there's so many people exploiting the wi-fi oppurtunity but if a coffee shop is the only place around that offers it then maybe, what's needed is a business only lounge-type shop that offers the same thing but its all strictly business. I believe there's already places like that around but I'm not sure how successful they've been...

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:29
I don't think the problem is people not buying anything; the problem is people overstaying their welcome to the point where new customers cannot find a seat. Indeed, people may look in the window and select another place because all the seats are taken in this one. That's business lost.

As a former foodserver, I am definitely in charity with people trying to make a living. I remember coming in to work one Friday night, and the afternoon server asked me if I would take over a ticket so she could clock out. The ticket was a lone guy sitting at a two-top with a cup of coffee. He proceeded to sit there ALL NIGHT sipping a cup of coffee listening to his CD player. It was Friday night, I only had four tables, and one is taken up for HOURS by a dude with a $1.50 tab. He cost me quite a bit in tips because I could not turn the table. I did ask the manager if there was anything he could do, but he said since the guy wasn't being disruptive, there was nothing he could do.

In this case, even if food servers are not involved, it is still inconsiderate to "camp" for hours just to browse when there are people who need seats simply to eat. However, "kicking people out" for using a service you offered is bad business also. I would say the free wi-fi has to go. Find some way to limit the service since you can't count on common courtesy in this case. I do consider it courteous to give up your seat to a customer who needs it to eat.

Thank You! That's the point I've been trying to make all this time, nothing more. Hallelujah!

SamReeves
10-08-09, 15:36
If you offer WI-FI, aren't you inviting the flies in? Sorry but I don't feel that sorry for the shop owners who do it. Otherwise they need to increase the seating at a coffee joint to increase the patrons at a WI-FI equipped place.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:36
In this case, even if food servers are not involved, it is still inconsiderate to "camp" for hours just to browse when there are people who need seats simply to eat. However, "kicking people out" for using a service you offered is bad business also. I would say the free wi-fi has to go. Find some way to limit the service since you can't count on common courtesy in this case. I do consider it courteous to give up your seat to a customer who needs it to eat.

I do agree on this part :)
Kicking customers out is bad, if you don't like people making use of the Wi-Fi, don't open up Wi-Fi or limit it.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:38
I do agree on this part :)
Kicking customers out is bad, if you don't like people making use of the Wi-Fi, don't open up Wi-Fi or limit it.

Which is exactly what they're doing...

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:40
Which is exactly what they're doing...

Not in the way of not allowing them in at certain times, duh
That should've been obvious from my last posts

I mean limit as in: Limited time you can use it when crowded
Or, make a special corner just for Wi-Fi users (a counter by the window would also do, like at certain Starbucks)

understand, yes, no?

myrmaad
10-08-09, 15:43
Thank You! That's the point I've been trying to make all this time, nothing more. Hallelujah!
Except that is the point I made,
because tips and profits both depend on high volume rotation of customers in and out

and it's not the point you were making
The point is, they don't mind people using the Wi-Fi as long as they're actually a paying customer.

Dennis's Mom corroborated my argument:
I don't think the problem is people not buying anything; the problem is people overstaying their welcome to the point where new customers cannot find a seat.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:43
Not in the way of not allowing them in at certain times, duh
That should've been obvious from my last posts

I mean limit as in: Limited time you can use it when crowded
Or, make a special corner just for Wi-Fi users (a counter by the window would also do, like at certain Starbucks)

understand, yes, no?

I'm not retarded, I understand your point, but I think the way they're going about doing it now will be effective as well. Either way, if people were considerate of others, there wouldn't be a need for all this.

Understand? Yes, no?

iamlaracroft
10-08-09, 15:46
Why go to a cafe for WiFi anyway? Wherever you are, there's a good chance there's a Starbucks nearby where camping in is nothing out of the ordinary.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:47
Why go to a cafe for WiFi anyway? Wherever you are, there's a good chance there's a Starbucks nearby where camping in is nothing out of the ordinary.

Starbucks is a cafe of sorts. And people like the ambience. I can't deny my enjoyment of eating at a cafe.

iamlaracroft
10-08-09, 15:53
I'm quite aware that Starbucks is a cafe-- but waiters and waitresses aren't serving you food at your table.
Dining at a cafe is different from absent-minded grazing between intermittent e-mail composing.

For me, it's one or the either: either give your full attention to the e-mail that's so important that you're disrupting your breakfast/brunch/lunch/dinner for and use both hands to type it, or stop and enjoy the meal your paying premium for.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 15:55
Yeah I know what you mean. But for those who say there should be a section in the back for Internet users--it's a cafe not an Internet Cafe. They shouldn't have to cater to the needs of every individual person. If people were just courteous and used common sense, there wouldn't be a problem.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 15:58
Yeah I know what you mean. But for those who say there should be a section in the back for Internet users--it's a cafe not an Internet Cafe. They shouldn't have to cater to the needs of every individual person. If people were just courteous and used common sense, there wouldn't be a problem.

Then why present Wi-Fi, when doing so you practically invite the problem on your doorstep.

iamlaracroft
10-08-09, 15:58
Where I live, which is America, those endowed with courtesy and common sense are an endangered species.
I've learned to lower my expectations when I venture outside my bubble.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 16:00
Then why present Wi-Fi, when doing so you practically invite the problem on your doorstep.

Dare I even elaborate? *Sigh* To provide a pleasantry for those who are considerate and won't abuse the privilege. Is that not obvious or do you not think?

Where I live, which is America, those endowed with courtesy and common sense are an endangered species.
I've learned to lower my expectations when I venture outside my bubble.

Hear hear.

JonnyT
10-08-09, 16:02
I think wi-fi in restaurants should be for things like phones with wi-fi. Because it's like - Take a break from the computer peoples!

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 16:03
Dare I even elaborate? *Sigh* To provide a pleasantry for those who are considerate and won't abuse the privilege. Is that not obvious or do you not think?


Well, could you use the internet for only a portion of 15-30 minutes and do something useful? I think it wouldn't even be worth to get that laptop out of my bag for such short time..

Catracoth
10-08-09, 16:04
Well, could you use the internet for only a portion of 15-30 minutes and do something useful? I think it wouldn't even be worth to get that laptop out of my bag for such short time..

I won't even further waste my time with you--you're so narrow-minded on this subject, I might as well try to explain Trigonometry to a toddler.

laracroftswest
10-08-09, 16:18
And this is why I don't like the city and some annoying city people.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 16:19
I always enjoyed the city for numerous reasons--the architecture, the locations, the lack of mosquitoes...I've lost my point. Ah yes, well the thing is, there's undesirables no matter where you go, even though it seems like there's more of them in cities.

Noodleboy
10-08-09, 16:36
I always enjoyed the city for numerous reasons--the architecture, the locations, the lack of mosquitoes...I've lost my point. Ah yes, well the thing is, there's undesirables no matter where you go, even though it seems like there's more of them in cities.

Listen you miss attitude, you think you are so ffing smart, but you know what, you are the one who is trying to push your believes onto other people, and when they disagree you get all anal and call them childish, uneducated and immature, but you know what, YOU are the one who is trying to back up your stoopid point of view on this stoopid article that no one even cares about because there's hunger in africa, and people are dying in the middle east with calling people names, and you are being anal about people who can't sit in a fancy Wi-Fi Cafe and have their fancy lunches and complain about people who paid damn money for a coffee or a sandwhich who have just as much right as those lunch wolfing snobs to sit in that cafe.

Have a great life and enjoy your lunch

interstellardave
10-08-09, 16:53
People need to learn to live without being "connected" every freaking minute of the day... that's the lesson here. You don't need to browse the internet, work online, facebook, twitter, talk on the phone, text, or whatever the heck the next thing will be, every single minute of the day no matter where you are! I don't care who you are; it's just not that important to be "connected" constantly.

I think people get so engrossed in their online lives that they don't even know what's going on with themselves anymore... maybe that's why so many people are unhappy. Maybe they should go in the cafe, keep their computer stowed away, turn off their phones, and just be with themselves for a bit. Quietly contemplate their lives, or the people who are actually around them in the real world. Even just watch the birds go about their business in the tree outside... you know?

iamlaracroft
10-08-09, 16:54
Woah. I actually agree with you for once Dave :tmb: Great points.


I'm scared.

interstellardave
10-08-09, 16:56
Woah. I actually agree with you for once Dave :tmb: Great points.


I'm scared.

That's the first step towards recovery! :cln:

Kidding of course... I didn't know you disagreed with me so often! :ton:

jackles
10-08-09, 17:00
*wander in and reads back*



Jeez chill out people...it is not a life or death thing...it is wi-fi!!!


If people cannot keep it civil the thread will end up getting closed.





and yeah Dave interesting point.

myrmaad
10-08-09, 17:00
Generally it's a great sentiment, Dave, but sometimes life in today's world requires internet access, in order to fulfill real obligations.

This was offered as part of the service to attract customers, after all, so it's hard to justify their complaints now that people have been attracted.

Catracoth
10-08-09, 17:05
Listen you miss attitude, you think you are so ffing smart, but you know what, you are the one who is trying to push your believes onto other people, and when they disagree you get all anal and call them childish, uneducated and immature, but you know what, YOU are the one who is trying to back up your stoopid point of view on this stoopid article that no one even cares about because there's hunger in africa, and people are dying in the middle east with calling people names, and you are being anal about people who can't sit in a fancy Wi-Fi Cafe and have their fancy lunches and complain about people who paid damn money for a coffee or a sandwhich who have just as much right as those lunch wolfing snobs to sit in that cafe.

What a waste of a post. Since this thread's clearly had it's time and you people can't seem to keep things on track, I'll ask that a moderator locks it before it gets further out of hand.

jackles
10-08-09, 17:06
Closed as per OP's request.