View Full Version : Why didn't they just animate the hair?
Instead of having it free-flowing, they could have just animated it themselves like they would with an arm or leg etc?
just croft
10-08-09, 22:43
What's easy now, wasn't 13 years ago.
They seemed to animate everything else nice and smoothly.
You don't understand the difference between specifically animated hair, or free flowing hair which moves entirely on its own.
Hateshinai
11-08-09, 00:26
Because Lara is controlled by the player so what she would do is unexpectable for the engine that's why free-flowing hair is needed in that case. Animated hair wouldn't have looked good.
They could come up with this with the baddies in TR4 because the engine controls them and each move they can do and each direction they can go is known by the engine and has a specific animation for it .
I hope it makes sense :o
Even though it would have gotten repetitive, it would have still looked better than a bun.
I see what you mean, but by the time TR4 had arrived, it would have been better to be free flowed.
Hateshinai
11-08-09, 00:38
I didn't mind the bun :p
The only thing that bothered me is that the FMV's and the actual levels looked very different from eachother. And that in every Tomb Raider game from 1 to 5 .
Everything looks so different in FMV, especially Lara.
It was funny to see that she had a long and cool looking 'braid' in the FMV's and then a ridiculous little bun ingame :D
The only thing that bothered me is that the FMV's and the actual levels looked very different from eachother. And that in every Tomb Raider game from 1 to 5 .
lol, same. :D It was really bad in TR4.
They were lazy/time constrains. TR2 had some animation and they didn't have some sort of eureka moment in one ear time.
Lara's hair has never been animated, excluding FMV's and some of Crystals cutscenes to make it go over her shoulder. :rolleyes:
The hair has its own physics which reacts with the way Lara moves. I sometimes think that TR 2 - 6 have better hair physics than physics than Underworld because in Underworld at times the hair could just go crazy and spin around and go through her backpack. Animated hair would look really ugly. In TRLE, if you animate her hair (if she is in an animating slot) it looks so ugly and even a bun is better.
Her hair was better then, than what its like now. I always assumed that natural hair just sat there. It would move correctly with the wind and would sit on her shoulder nicely at times too. The hair is better with free flow because it seems more natural. They went with something similar in TR:U. They just let it fall where her head was, instead of animating it to go where her head went. I liked her hair back then :D
RetardedRaider
11-08-09, 10:26
Her hair was better then, than what its like now. I always assumed that natural hair just sat there. It would move correctly with the wind and would sit on her shoulder nicely at times too. The hair is better with free flow because it seems more natural. They went with something similar in TR:U. They just let it fall where her head was, instead of animating it to go where her head went. I liked her hair back then :D
The wind effects were neat :D
I just don't like how TRU's hair was so light in cutscenes (Like the Thailand bridge cutscene and the Mexico Trap Room Cutscene)
The wind effects were neat :D
I just don't like how TRU's hair was so light in cutscenes (Like the Thailand bridge cutscene and the Mexico Trap Room Cutscene)
Agreed. It needed more length for starters, so that way it would have been heavier and would not have been flying around like a leaf in the wind. :D
In TRLE, if you animate her hair (if she is in an animating slot) it looks so ugly and even a bun is better.
Have you got any videos of this? And this happened in Nightmare Creatures if you played the girl. It didn't look ugly or anything. :confused:
Hateshinai
11-08-09, 13:39
Just look at how the animated braid looked in the TR1 cutscenes :D
TombRaider4444
15-08-09, 18:56
I wouldn't have minded the braid in the betas. On a G4TV interview some where on youtube like a part 1/3 which shows some more beta areas they state: They figured out to make the game run ok with the braid but it kept going through her backpack. Who gives a damn the braid rocked in the beta test.
LaraCablara
15-08-09, 19:39
Have you got any videos of this? And this happened in Nightmare Creatures if you played the girl. It didn't look ugly or anything. :confused:
You want Lara to jump forward, so they animate the braid to do that. You want to swim, they have to animate that too. You want to swim on the surface, they have to animate it also, what if you want to swim forward or backwards?, they would need to animate it also. When Lara is transitioning from animation to animation, they would need to animate that too. You see the problem?
Tomb Raider 1 would have come out at least 5 years later if they wanted to make all that look good.
You want Lara to jump forward, so they animate the braid to do that. You want to swim, they have to animate that too. You want to swim on the surface, they have to animate it also, what if you want to swim forward or backwards?, they would need to animate it also. When Lara is transitioning from animation to animation, they would need to animate that too. You see the problem?
Tomb Raider 1 would have come out at least 5 years later if they wanted to make all that look good.
But the thing is, with every animation, the arms and legs have to be animated, so the braid would kinda act as an extra arm or something. Do you see what I mean? Just one extra animation would have been worth it for each animation.
LaraCablara
15-08-09, 19:58
But the thing is, with every animation, the arms and legs have to be animated, so the braid would kinda act as an extra arm or something. Do you see what I mean? Just one extra animation would have been worth it for each animation.
The hair is made up of a lot of little cylinders in the older games, the arm is just one, it would take forever. Level editors know :o.
xXhayleyroxXx
15-08-09, 20:04
the graphics were bad back then so it couldnt have been possible, and if it were it would have been very glitchy.
well, it was possible to have the braid, except the game would run slow and crash every 5 minutes :p (If it was free flowing)
rr_carroll
23-08-09, 08:50
tombraiderxii, what is the video supposed to prove? That she once had a braid? That you could animate a braid? That you could NOT animate a braid, since it hardly moves, nor do the animals? Let us in on your secret argument! ;)
I can't control my hair.. and neither should Lara.
Hair just sits there and goes where it wants. I do't think it would be wise to have animated hair. I like free flowing better. It gave depth to the game and Lara herself.
tombraiderxii, what is the video supposed to prove? That she once had a braid? That you could animate a braid? That you could NOT animate a braid, since it hardly moves, nor do the animals? Let us in on your secret argument! ;)
Well that is the argument, the game is slow because of the braid, get rid of the braid everything works at normal speed. The technology and engine were too new, they did not back then know how to have the braid, Lara and all the other things in the levels moving.
And tombraiderxii, you should know that we do not allow media on here that has been watermarked by other fan sites.
And tombraiderxii, you should know that we do not allow media on here that has been watermarked by other fan sites.
Really? oh my.. I never knew that :o
January_Snow*
23-08-09, 09:21
Legend had the best hair animations IMO, in the classics the braid was all jiggly, in AOD it hardly moved, in TRA it almost never moved, and in TRU it moved to much, Legend hair animations were perfect, It usualy stayed still moving only while jumping and runing :)
It would seem that on the PS3 the hair in Underworld moves in the wind. Me and many other PS3 users have seen this. Hayley was the person how found this out.
xXhayleyroxXx
23-08-09, 11:08
It would seem that on the PS3 the hair in Underworld moves in the wind. Me and many other PS3 users have seen this. Hayley was the person how found this out.
aww your sweet :hug:
yeah it does :)
tombraiderxii
23-08-09, 16:33
And tombraiderxii, you should know that we do not allow media on here that has been watermarked by other fan sites.
oh, right, terribly sorry... :o
and rr_carroll, i didn't really have an argument, i was just pointing out that Lara had a braid in the beta for TR1 but got removed. no secret argument here, sorry. :o
rr_carroll
23-08-09, 19:56
I was using "argument" in the intellectual sense, meaning "what point are you making". I'm still not sure. This thread is NOT about "did they animate the hair?" it's about "WHY did they not animate the hair?"
tombraiderxii
23-08-09, 22:54
I was using "argument" in the intellectual sense, meaning "what point are you making". I'm still not sure. This thread is NOT about "did they animate the hair?" it's about "WHY did they not animate the hair?"
oh.. ah... I'm actually not sure why they didn't but i guess it was too complicated and slowed things down and wasn't worth the lag. then again, I'm probably wrong, so it doesn't really matter what I say, I'm just making a guess.
rr_carroll
24-08-09, 06:24
Well, thank you for providing one example of moving hair. :)
Optimization.
Te original engine had to run in a SEGA Saturn. Besides, it was the first version so things were not tuned up very well. They removed the braid in TR1 'cause it took too many CPU time to animate it, so the game slowed down on the original hardware.
TR2 was developed for the PSX which was slightly more powerful, and the engine was enhaced so it performed better than the original incarnation, so they got CPU time to make the needed calculations to animate the braid.
xXhayleyroxXx
04-09-09, 20:03
Optimization.
Te original engine had to run in a SEGA Saturn. Besides, it was the first version so things were not tuned up very well. They removed the braid in TR1 'cause it took too many CPU time to animate it, so the game slowed down on the original hardware.
TR2 was developed for the PSX which was slightly more powerful, and the engine was enhaced so it performed better than the original incarnation, so they got CPU time to make the needed calculations to animate the braid.
perfect explanation there :)
I was ALWAYS under the impression that it was due to tooo many polygons...nothig to do with having it animated or free flowing:)
I think that Underworld has the most realistic... um... braid physics of all. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNSkgsGJbAw&feature=related)
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