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GameGlitcher77
18-08-09, 16:50
Ok so I have been offically granted permission by Justin tlr online to make a polictal debate thread. Okay so any and all things to to with politics (including war) can be posted and discussed on this thread. Just try to keep the bickering to a minimum okay:):D:D;)

Mad Tony
18-08-09, 16:52
What exactly do you wanna debate? :confused:

Reggie
18-08-09, 17:01
Here's what I think:

I like the ideals of anarchy and communism but I wouldn't label myself as an anarchist or a communist and the Labour Party can suck it as can the Conservatives.

People need to get more clued up when they go out to vote if we're ever going to take a step closer to getting a better lot of people to run our country or deal with the European Parliament.

The Republicans have made themselves look totally ridiculous by just opposing every single thing Obama comes up with and he's a good President IMO BUT there's no way he can change anything significant without support and he's lacking too much of it right now which is what I thought would happen which shows that even with Obama's ambition and zeal for change, over democratisation and regulation can just get in the way of things and prevent progress.

I don't believe rights are more important than appealing to the people's hearts and mind. Legislation isn't worth anything until the majority embrace it and want it no matter how much we think it does. In essence that means a great many 'rights' that are frequently abused are nothing but pieces of paper.

^So maybe my POVs can kick things off a bit?

GameGlitcher77
18-08-09, 17:06
Her's a good question. Intially Obama said he would take the U.S. troops out of Iraq, but now he's changing his mind. What gives???:confused::mad::D:p

irjudd
18-08-09, 17:07
People are confused because you didn't clarify what "polictal" means. They don't know what to debate!

GameGlitcher77
18-08-09, 17:11
Reggie's got the right idea^^^

Mad Tony
18-08-09, 17:18
Here's what I think:

I like the ideals of anarchy and communism but I wouldn't label myself as an anarchist or a communist and the Labour Party can suck it as can the Conservatives.

People need to get more clued up when they go out to vote if we're ever going to take a step closer to getting a better lot of people to run our country or deal with the European Parliament.

The Republicans have made themselves look totally ridiculous by just opposing every single thing Obama comes up with and he's a good President IMO BUT there's no way he can change anything significant without support and he's lacking too much of it right now which is what I thought would happen which shows that even with Obama's ambition and zeal for change, over democratisation and regulation can just get in the way of things and prevent progress.

I don't believe rights are more important than appealing to the people's hearts and mind. Legislation isn't worth anything until the majority embrace it and want it no matter how much we think it does. In essence that means a great many 'rights' that are frequently abused are nothing but pieces of paper.

^So maybe my POVs can kick things off a bit?Lol, I pretty much disagree with everything in your post there, particularly the first part about anarchism and communism.

Anarchism and communism are both the extremes of the political spectrum.

http://www.educationforum.co.uk/sociology_2/Political_chart.jpg

Communism would be to the far left of that that box and anarchism would be to the far bottom. Rarely (if ever) has a government in history been at the very edge of that box and still managed to govern effectively. The best government is normally the government which lies somewhere within the inner part of the circle.

It is inevitable that a country plagued with anarchism will have nothing but harm done to it as anarchism is the complete absence of law and authority - no good comes from that. Communism is unfair because it forces everyone to be equal and doesn't allow for people to work their way to wealth.

GameGlitcher77
18-08-09, 17:34
^^^Where would a Republic e.g. U.S. and certain European countries be on that chart???:confused:;)

Mad Tony
18-08-09, 17:41
A republic is a system of government, not a political orientation. It'd depend what country in particular you're talking about. It also depends on what your definition of a republic is. Some definitions state that it's just a government without a monarchy, while others are more complex than that. Take the the countries that made up the Soviet Union (e.g. Belarus, Russia, Estonia, Uzbekistan etc), they were all called "socialist republics" although they were far from democracies.

GameGlitcher77
18-08-09, 17:45
Interesting...^^^

Trigger_happy
18-08-09, 17:52
People need to get more clued up when they go out to vote if we're ever going to take a step closer to getting a better lot of people to run our country or deal with the European Parliament.



I don't think that the EU's biggest problem is a lack of education, The whole system needs to be redone. The Parliament has very little power, yet still preaches democracy.

Reggie
18-08-09, 18:03
@MT: We've been through anarchy debate before and I guess we just see the world in different ways! As for anarchistic communism, there's enough behind it to make it the two ideals compatible but as I've said in my original post, I agree with the ideals. What anarchistic communism and the branches of both idealogies on their own would bring in practice is something totally different and on the basis of what would actually work, I have no idea - at least not yet because I've not read enough on anarchy to say for certain. Communism I'm even less certain about because 'proper' communism has always been *******ised by a mixture of fascist dictatorship/capitalist economy. Whether that has been because Communism is just unsuitable and has had to be compromised out of necessity throughout history is another debate...

I don't think that the EU's biggest problem is a lack of education, The whole system needs to be redone. The Parliament has very little power, yet still preaches democracy.
I think the system needs serious improvement but at the same time, there needs to be more education on what that system is, how it functions and exactly how it affects us. I don't study politics and most people don't either so unless you actively seek out information on the european parliament, you won't find out much at all from newspapers or television which is where most people look. In short, the media bears partial responsibility but we need to take responsibility and make that effort as well to understand.

SamReeves
18-08-09, 18:04
Obama sucks!

Okay, I'm done. :D

Mad Tony
18-08-09, 18:04
That reminds me. Don't you support the Lib Dems, Reggie? You do know they're probably the most pro-EU party out of the three? I think the Conservatives are the only ones who don't want to submit to the EU. Labour and the Lib Dems seem pretty fond of the oppressive EU.

@Sam: http://voicetalentproductions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/captain-obvious.jpg

:p

Reggie
18-08-09, 18:12
That reminds me. Don't you support the Lib Dems, Reggie? You do know they're probably the most pro-EU party out of the three? I think the Conservatives are the only ones who don't want to submit to the EU. Labour and the Lib Dems seem pretty fond of the oppressive EU.
My support of the lib dems is rather shaky atm and I question their democracy and rights based agenda but their motives and ideals of libertarianism appeal to me. I've already decided to switch my vote to from lib dems to an independant for the local election here. *shrugs* I suppose I'm just disillusioned with the whole thing right now and the more I learn about politics and the way it works and the more I experience, the more disillusioned I become.

Kittypower
18-08-09, 18:19
Obama sucks!

Okay, I'm done. :D

I still like him if only for his liberalisim.(did that make any sense?)

Punaxe
18-08-09, 18:46
(...) there needs to be more education on what that system is, how it functions and exactly how it affects us. (...)

I agree, hardly ever have I seen as much ignorance around me than during elections that had to do with the European Union. People just don't know what they're voting for.

miss.haggard
18-08-09, 19:20
I know that I should try to avoid this thread with all my might, but I must speak :)

Personally I am fairly conservative, so is my husband, and so is my immediate family, we are the odd ones out in a mostly liberal family. And besides a few arguments come election time, we usually can see why the other thinks the way they do. I believe in the "to each his own" type thing, and as long as you dont push your ideals on me, because I will certainly never tell you that your belief is wrong, we will be able to get along.

I wish the rest of the world was like this, being able to live with each others beliefs, and I think if we could ever get to that point, with a few ground rules we would be able to have a great world. But life is never perfect, is it?

Draco
18-08-09, 19:56
I think I'll sit this one out...too many shattered realities could be bad for my friend count.

Quasimodo
18-08-09, 20:03
I think I'll sit this one out...too many shattered realities could be bad for my friend count.

What a tease.


Anyhoo, I was reading a thread in another forum about how a pharmacy refused to fill the topic starter's birth control prescription (this happened to be a Catholic pharmacy). (Would this be considered a political topic? Whatever.) Do you think it's right for a pharmacy to deny someone's prescription based on their religious beliefs? Should it be legal to do that?

Mokono
18-08-09, 20:20
What a tease.


Anyhoo, I was reading a thread in another forum about how a pharmacy refused to fill the topic starter's birth control prescription (this happened to be a Catholic pharmacy). (Would this be considered a political topic? Whatever.) Do you think it's right for a pharmacy to deny someone's prescription based on their religious beliefs? Should it be legal to do that?

It is political if there's no way you can stand for your rights to legally acquire those medicaments... If the person affected is heard by autorities and the pharmacy owner, whatever it's beliefs are, apologize and pays a fine, then is mostly social than political.

Cochrane
18-08-09, 20:25
What a tease.


Anyhoo, I was reading a thread in another forum about how a pharmacy refused to fill the topic starter's birth control prescription (this happened to be a Catholic pharmacy). (Would this be considered a political topic? Whatever.) Do you think it's right for a pharmacy to deny someone's prescription based on their religious beliefs? Should it be legal to do that?

If it's a legal prescription, then no, it should be absolutely illegal to deny it. Of course, it depends on the system. In Germany, pharmacies are very tightly regulated in order to ensure a high quality of service (although whether this is actually achieved is subject to debate). Here, I would imagine that such behavior should result in the pharmacy getting their license revoked. If the requirements and regulation are less strict and you can find an alternative that will serve you easily, then the government may grant pharmacies this liberty, although there has to be some way for everyone to get access to the drugs that are prescribed by his doctor.

stereopathic
18-08-09, 20:33
i had no idea there was a such thing as a catholic pharmacy.

Quasimodo
18-08-09, 20:38
i had no idea there was a such thing as a catholic pharmacy.

Maybe this excerpt from the original post will help clarify:

"Why did I go to Planned Parenthood for my pill pack when my doctor isnít part of PP? Because she is part of a hospitalís womanís center, and their pharmacy wonít fill birth control because, and I quote you from the pharmacist:

ďThis is a Catholic Hospital, we donít fill things like that here. You will have to go elsewhere.Ē"

stereopathic
18-08-09, 20:42
Maybe this excerpt from the original post will help clarify:

"Why did I go to Planned Parenthood for my pill pack when my doctor isn’t part of PP? Because she is part of a hospital’s woman’s center, and their pharmacy won’t fill birth control because, and I quote you from the pharmacist:

“This is a Catholic Hospital, we don’t fill things like that here. You will have to go elsewhere.”"

yee. i had no idea that a catholic hospital would do that. i suppose it makes sense. however, if she has the prescription, she can just take it to any drug store and they'll fill it no problem. the 'scrip coming from PP prolly didn't help matters any.

PP will also give refills. she could always just go back there.

aileenwuornos
19-08-09, 07:23
I make my own rules in life and don't adhere to any particular party. But I do work at elections because they pay you heaps :D and it's always tax free. If you're in Australia I recommend it.

My values are my own. And I always have a huge problem with most political parties because none of them seem to closely match what I think would eventuate to a form of utopia :(