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Vermillion
24-08-09, 14:37
Does anyone know why Excalibur was scattered in pieces in the first place?

Because in the England-level (King Arthur's tomb) when you're in King Arthur's Masoleum, you'll have to get the final piece from King Arthur. How come he only had the handle of the sword?

Does anyone know if this had any particular reason? (other than making you explore around the world :) )

the ancient
24-08-09, 16:40
Maybe Merlin destroyed it so the evil forces cuoldnt use it to attack avalon are something

Vermillion
24-08-09, 22:57
Maybe Merlin destroyed it so the evil forces cuoldnt use it to attack avalon are something

Yeah, that might make sence I guess.

But according to TR:Underworld, Avalon didn't even exist. It was just an other name for the Norse Underworld Helheim. What the Norse mythologie has to do with the Arthurian myth is beyond me however.

I think they just wanted to introduce Thor's hammer, so they had to go with Norse mythologie.

aussie500
25-08-09, 01:27
Does anyone know why Excalibur was scattered in pieces in the first place?

Because in the England-level (King Arthur's tomb) when you're in King Arthur's Masoleum, you'll have to get the final piece from King Arthur. How come he only had the handle of the sword?

Does anyone know if this had any particular reason? (other than making you explore around the world :) )

I thought why the sword was scattered was fairly obvious, Arthur's knights took the fragments with them around the world, and the piece Arthur had was deliberately left with him. Presumably the sword broke when Merlin was killed, or it could have been because of who Arthur was fighting (Mordred, who was related to Arthur) that the sword broke, perhaps it broke when Arthur could no longer use it. With Merlin gone Arthur was killed and the sword could not be put back together.

I am fond of recovering objects from dead Englishmen - in this case, one of your crusaders. Some have even said the warmonger was one of your King Arthur's knights. I do not know how the fool came by it, for it is clearly far older than the eleventh century, when your people lived in huts of mud.http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8844/trlsword1.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5740/trlsword2.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2742/trlsword3.jpg

The rest was explained during the game which I am not chasing but the piece in Kazakhstan was found at Castle Carbonek along with Lancelot's shield.

Edit - The rest of the relevant dialogue not in the cutscenes.

Zip - Where's they go?
Alister - To find Avalon, perhaps. The quest for the "Holy Grail." Lancelot, Galahad, Percival and Bors. Their tombs are empty.
Lara - It says this fragment was left with Arthur to help him leave this mausoleum when the time came. Perhaps it will help me instead.

And from Kazakhstan

Amanda - You're so smart, Lara. Do you know why the Soviets called their project "Carbonek?"
Lara - It's the castle where Lancelot sought the Holy Grail. Not the first connection to Arthurian myth I've come across.

Tony9595
25-08-09, 02:48
Or more simple... To make Legend last longer :p

!Lara Croft!
25-08-09, 07:18
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2742/trlsword3.jpg

I always wondered, why bedivere's grave was different from the rest?

scremanie
25-08-09, 07:30
Or more simple... To make Legend last longer :p

THIS! lol :p


But yeah, what aussie500 said.

I was about to say something similar, but she beat me :p

Also, just to add, Underworld was trying to say that Avalon and Helheim are the same place, possibly the Norse had discovered it but after the battle that lead to Thor's death, they abandoned it or the gods closed it and hid the artifacts that you needed to gain entrance. But eventually it became the place of Authors myth. Even though the real myth for Avalon says that it is an island that has been located in many different places, surrounded by harsh swamp lands, and beyond the groves is a land so beautiful and the soil is so fine that farmers can plant crops without needing seeds. The waters and the fruits of the island are supposed to have healing powers too. But I guess that doesn't apply to Tomb Raider :p

There is also another version of the Merlin story that is barely heard of. It says:

The story of the Sword in the Stone has an analogue in some versions of the story of Sigurd (the Norse proto-Siegfried), whose father, Sigmund, draws the sword Gram out of the tree Barnstokkr where it is embedded by the Norse god Odin.

So that basically is saying that Odin, who is Thor's father, embedded a sword named Gram, into a tree named Barnstokkr and the only person that could pull it out was a man named Sigmund. There are many stories related around each myth, and each story is told differently. But they all apply to the myth. Lara says this herself in Underworld. So maybe Excalibur and Mjolnir were related, after all they're both keys to Avalon/Helheim.

But who knows... :p Maybe the Norse even closed it to stop Natla from gaining entrance? But I don't see how Merlin and Author came across it... Maybe Thor is Author!! LOL :p..... http://i27.************/2805nye.jpg

But either way, Tomb Raider has always combined unrelated myths and civilizations to create its stories. It has always been that way. At least this is plausible :p

Vermillion
25-08-09, 10:48
Thanks a lot for the explanation Aussie500 :)

I actually forgot about that dialogue (haven't watched the cutscenes in while)

But why didn't Arthur ever go to Avalon/Helheim? Is it because he realized it was in fact the Norse Underworld Helheim and decided he didnt want to live in such a hellish place, or does the real Avalon still exist and his knights went off to find it?

I still hope that Natla lied about Avalon and Helheim being one and the same, just to get to the midgard serpent. In that case, Amelia could have been another doppelganger created by Natla. And Lara could still find her real mother in Avalon. (A storyline that would have been a lot better IMO)

In any case, Arthur and his people obviously knew about the Stone Daises. Because there is a small replica of it in front of his crystallized orb ;)

The text you mentioned Aussie500: "It says this fragment was left with Arthur to help him leave this mausoleum when the time came. Perhaps it will help me instead." -Does that mean Arthur was still alive in that tomb? In the 360-version he looks real, just his eyes are closed like he is sleeping. I've seen some images of it in the PS2/PSP-version and there he just looks like a mummy :(

Anyway, Legend's story kicks Underworld's ass!

ggctuk
25-08-09, 11:21
In context of the entire trilogy, I think Arthur saw Helheim, realised what was in there, and kept the sword, until his death when he broke the sword apart to stop people from entering Helheim.

KIKO
25-08-09, 12:25
Aussie500@ I thought the Excalibur sword was given to Arthur after the fight. There were lots of excaliburs, we just found pieces of other excaliburs and the Ghalali key combined them. Or CD just did that so the game wouldn't end right after Peru :p

Vermillion
25-08-09, 12:48
Aussie500@ I thought the Excalibur sword was given to Arthur after the fight. There were lots of excaliburs, we just found pieces of other excaliburs and the Ghalali key combined them. Or CD just did that so the game wouldn't end right after Peru :p

I think Arthur found Excalibur in one of those daises (just like lara and her mother found one in Nepal after the plane crash). So that means there has to be a stone dais in England aswell. Lara said so herself in Legend (right after the Excalibur reforged-scene) : "And now we know how young Arthur became King of England" .

Lara's Excalibur in Legend has to be King Arthur's sword. Because that was the one that got scattered around the world. And if I'm correct, the queen of Tiwanaku had an Excalibur aswell.

KIKO
25-08-09, 13:32
I think Arthur found Excalibur in one of those daises (just like lara and her mother found one in Nepal after the plane crash). So that means there has to be a stone dais in England aswell. Lara said so herself in Legend (right after the Excalibur reforged-scene) : "And now we know how young Arthur became King of England" .

Lara's Excalibur in Legend has to be King Arthur's sword. Because that was the one that got scattered around the world. And if I'm correct, the queen of Tiwanaku had an Excalibur aswell.

Arthur had the sword of the stone and later after breaking it the Lady from the Lake gave Arthur the sword Excalibur. Alister said Tenupa is another name for Viracocha and also stated that Tenupa originally lived in the lake.

Vermillion
25-08-09, 16:25
Arthur had the sword of the stone and later after breaking it the Lady from the Lake gave Arthur the sword Excalibur. Alister said Tenupa is another name for Viracocha and also stated that Tenupa originally lived in the lake.

Yes, that's right according to the real Arthurian myth. But TR:Legend had it's own twist on the Legend of King Arthur. Like for example the Stone daises, and in TR: Underworld the connection with the Norse Mythologie. Wich in reality have nothing to do with eachother.

Eric Lindstrom and Toby Gard (the story writers) took things from different cultures and myths, and put them in Tomb Raider as it would fit to the storyline. Still, there are a lot of things I expected in Underworld that I didn't get an answer to :mad:

vixster
25-08-09, 20:40
am i thinking way too obvious,

each dais is in a completely different location and with very different culturers and religons, so maybe each dias came with a weapon - each culture uses their beliefs to explain everything, therefore same object to a portal, different names and stories

each culture either hides or takes their weapons and does whatever they do in the underworld - either drowning in the etir or frollocking in daisies