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SamReeves
27-08-09, 01:01
The great Obama is busy gutting the CIA, playing host to DPRK, releasing terrorists inside the United States, and of course will spend money nobody has for national healthcare. The result of Obama's actions? He's down to just a 51% approval rating. More and more people in America are realizing what a ego driven boob this President is. Take a look below at the averages at Real Clear Politics:

President Obama Job Approval (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html)

Kittypower
27-08-09, 01:13
Approval rating will sink, look at clinton. I think with the economy recovering and the passing of health care reform(its bound to happen eventually) Obamas approval rating should go upwards.

Clintons approval ratings.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Clinton_approval_rating.png/800px-Clinton_approval_rating.png

Tommy123
27-08-09, 02:44
Hes spending more money then this country has

interstellardave
27-08-09, 02:51
Hes spending more money then this country has

Most modern presidents have... but Obama is really kicking it into high gear.

Spong
27-08-09, 10:31
He's still better than George W though isn't he? I mean, the entire world hates him.

Johnnay
27-08-09, 10:32
He's still better than George W though isn't he? I mean, the entire world hates him.

yes

at least he has done good things that Bush didnt want to do

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 10:33
He's still better than George W though isn't he? I mean, the entire world hates him.No, probably not actually. How does what people think of somebody affect the kind of job they did? Pretty much the whole world loves Obama but that doesn't mean he's any good.

@Johnnay: Yeah, by the end of the year he'll have spent more than Bush did throughout his entire term! :vlol:

http://economistmom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/economist-obama-budget-022809.jpg

Drone
27-08-09, 10:39
Obama or Bush ... they are all sending American economy down the crapper

Spong
27-08-09, 10:40
Doesn't change the fact that Obama is infinitely more popular than Bush. The world would be in a far better place if he'd not been in power.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 10:41
Doesn't change the fact that Obama is infinitely more popular than Bush. The world would be in a far better place if he'd not been in power.Yeah, I know Obama is more popular than Bush, but for what? Most of his supporters are just taken in by his charisma. Shame he's such an empty suit.

Travel back in time and get Gore elected did we?

Johnnay
27-08-09, 10:52
Doesn't change the fact that Obama is infinitely more popular than Bush. The world would be in a far better place if he'd not been in power.

the world would be in a better place if no one was in power over anyone:)

EDIT: the only bad things he didnt do is not recognizing the Armenian Genocide( despite the fact America was involved in it), Guantamo Bay( if it isnt closed), the wars and the economic crisis still hasnt been handled yet by him. anything more guys.

tlr online
27-08-09, 10:55
Doesn't change the fact that Obama is infinitely more popular than Bush. The world would be in a far better place if he'd not been in power.

I agree. Obama is also more likely to make infinitely wiser decisions than Bush too.

interstellardave
27-08-09, 11:08
People around the world have a huge blind spot when it comes to Obama... I can't believe people are turning this topic around and bashing George Bush. I was hardly a GW fan but c'mon, people! One of the things Bush was criticized for was how the National Debt grew so much during his presidency... well now we have Obama doing the same thing at a much accelerated rate--and he does it will full intention to do so; no apologies or excuses made! How is this good for anyone... how can people make excuses for that?

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:10
Not to mention he didn't learn from Bush's mistake and went and passed another "stimulus" package.

Johnnay
27-08-09, 11:10
Not to mention he didn't learn from Bush's mistake and went and passed another "stimulus" package.

worth something stupid. a trillion dollars i think:confused:

Cochrane
27-08-09, 11:13
For what it's worth, the american deficit is very uninteresting to non-americans (assuming the US does not default, but that's highly unlikely). American foreign politics and human rights, however, do matter, and the amount of non-americans who say that Bush did better there than Obama amounts to… well, Mad Tony, I guess.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:13
worth something stupid. a trillion dollars i think:confused:Something like that. And now he wants to splash out on health care reform.

@Cochrane: That's mainly because most non-Americans (at least here anyway) don't really look into US politics much and just say Obama = good, Bush = bad but can't really give a reason why. Oh yeah, and over here you get called racist if you don't approve of Obama.

Johnnay
27-08-09, 11:18
oh yeah that health crae debate in the US. another reason to add in my list.
but dont forget it wasnt Obama who started the economic crisis in the first place:mad::mad::mad::mad:Bush:mad::mad::mad::mad:: mad:

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:21
Actually, Bush didn't start the economic crisis either.

tlr online
27-08-09, 11:24
People around the world have a huge blind spot when it comes to Obama...

I don't have a blind spot when it comes to Obama. I'm simply giving him time to implement his own measures before I judge him on their success. A massive transition is in progress and Obama warned there would be no overnight miracle.

Sam's post made me smile in fact. It's typical Republican rhetoric. :)

interstellardave
27-08-09, 11:25
For what it's worth, the american deficit is very uninteresting to non-americans (assuming the US does not default, but that's highly unlikely). American foreign politics and human rights, however, do matter, and the amount of non-americans who say that Bush did better there than Obama amounts to… well, Mad Tony, I guess.

I seem to distinctly remember Europeans, and other non-Americans, on this forum getting on Bush for that; and some blamed him for ruining not just the US economy but the world economy! Of course it's much more complex than that, despite how much fun it might be to bash GW for some, but it's just easier to call Bush the root of all evil and be done with it.

BTW, I've always advocated defaulting on the loan... it's ridiculous in the extreme to expect it to be paid off... and even paying the interest is an extreme burden on the economy. Defaulting on the existing loan is probably the best way to improve the economy! Those who collect said interest may not like it... but they are the bloodsuckers behind the scenes who helped create this mess; not just GW, or Clinton, or Reagan...

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:25
There wasn't actually rhetoric in Sam's post.

EscondeR
27-08-09, 11:26
People around the world have a huge blind spot when it comes to Obama... I can't believe people are turning this topic around and bashing George Bush. I was hardly a GW fan but c'mon, people! One of the things Bush was criticized for was how the National Debt grew so much during his presidency... well now we have Obama doing the same thing at a much accelerated rate--and he does it will full intention to do so; no apologies or excuses made! How is this good for anyone... how can people make excuses for that?

At least it's aimed at instating and protecting the "democracy" in far corners of the world NOT :mis:

tlr online
27-08-09, 11:26
There wasn't actually rhetoric in Sam's post.

I wouldn't expect you to spot it Mad Tony.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:27
I wouldn't expect you to spot it Mad Tony.Instead of making snide remarks could you please point it out? All Sam did was state the facts.

tlr online
27-08-09, 11:27
Instead of making snide remarks could you please point it out?

I've already said what I wanted to say.

I don't have a blind spot when it comes to Obama. I'm simply giving him time to implement his own measures before I judge him on their success. A massive transition is in progress and Obama warned there would be no overnight miracle.

Sam's post made me smile in fact. It's typical Republican rhetoric. :)

Have fun with the nitpicking. :wve:

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:33
Rhetoric

"The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rhetoric

I really don't think Sam was trying to persuade anyone. We all know to well there's only a handful of members on here who are willing to criticize Obama. As I said, all he was doing was stating facts. Obama has done all those things Sam mentioned in his post.

I seem to recall you posting very similar threads, but instead they were critical of Bush. Would I be justified in calling your posts on Bush nothing more than Democratic rhetoric?

Spong
27-08-09, 11:36
I've already said what I wanted to say.

Have fun with the nitpicking. :wve:

Rhetoric

"The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rhetoric

+1 for Justin. :vlol:

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:39
Care to elaborate?

Cochrane
27-08-09, 11:39
@Cochrane: That's mainly because most non-Americans (at least here anyway) don't really look into US politics much and just say Obama = good, Bush = bad but can't really give a reason why. Oh yeah, and over here you get called racist if you don't approve of Obama.
Actually I've just given a reason why people prefer Obama: Because he's closing down Guantanamo and is at least willing to admit that Iraq was not a good idea, among other things.

I seem to distinctly remember Europeans, and other non-Americans, on this forum getting on Bush for that; and some blamed him for ruining not just the US economy but the world economy! Of course it's much more complex than that, despite how much fun it might be to bash GW for some, but it's just easier to call Bush the root of all evil and be done with it.

BTW, I've always advocated defaulting on the loan... it's ridiculous in the extreme to expect it to be paid off... and even paying the interest is an extreme burden on the economy. Defaulting on the existing loan is probably the best way to improve the economy! Those who collect said interest may not like it... but they are the bloodsuckers behind the scenes who helped create this mess; not just GW, or Clinton, or Reagan...
Erm…*okay, but they weren't me. :D I do think there is some difference between blaming someone for insufficient banking oversight on the one hand and criticizing budget policies on the other, though, so maybe that could explain this discrepancy.

Another point to note: Europeans (again, with the exception of Mad Tony) are generally in favor of universal health care, so they don't see this as a point against Obama.

Instead of making snide remarks could you please point it out? All Sam did was state the facts.
No he didn't. Let's take a look:
The great Obama is busy gutting the CIA, If you mean investigations into human rights abuses
playing host to DPRK, Actually they paid host to Clinton
releasing terrorists inside the United States, Nope, only people who could not be proven as terrorists despite more than five years imprisonment.
and of course will spend money nobody has for national healthcare.There are various ideas of how to finance this
The result of Obama's actions? He's down to just a 51% approval rating.
That's a fact.
More and more people in America are realizing what a ego driven boob this President is. That's a personal opinion again.

SamReeves: No offence, I did this just for illustrative purposes.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:41
Actually I've just given a reason why people prefer Obama: Because he's closing down Guantanamo and is at least willing to admit that Iraq was not a good idea, among other things.But closing down Guantanamo wasn't a good idea at all. It just proves Obama is soft on terror. Whether or not the Iraq war was a mistake or not is all a matter of opinion really.

And what have I told you about calling me the E word? :p

interstellardave
27-08-09, 11:48
I'm gonna go off topic for just a moment--mainly because I don't want to create a topic about this, myself--but I'm surprised there isn't a Ted Kennedy topic on here? I would think many would mourn the passing of the "Great Liberal Lion" as they have been calling him. :confused:

Cochrane
27-08-09, 11:48
But closing down Guantanamo wasn't a good idea at all. It just proves Obama is soft on terror.
Oh come on. You really think that?

And what have I told you about calling me the E word? :p
Nothing so far, actually. If you mean that you consider yourself not european, though, then I'd like to once more point out that you're obviously wrong there. You not liking it does not really change the facts one bit.

tlr online
27-08-09, 11:49
I'm gonna go off topic for just a moment--mainly because I don't want to create a topic about this, myself--but I'm surprised there isn't a Ted Kennedy topic on here? I would think many would mourn the passing of the "Great Liberal Lion" as they have been calling him. :confused:

Indeed a sad passing.

Sorry to go off-topic.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 11:51
Oh come on. You really think that?Yeah, I do.


Nothing so far, actually. If you mean that you consider yourself not european, though, then I'd like to once more point out that you're obviously wrong there. You not liking it does not really change the facts one bit.But I don't consider myself European.

interstellardave
27-08-09, 11:58
Indeed a sad passing.

Sorry to go off-topic.

Well, maybe someone will post a topic about it... I was never a huge fan of his, personally.

Besides, the topic now is apparently whether or not Mad Tony is European! :p

ON TOPIC: It will be interesting to see what comes of this Healthcare reform... again, it is more healthcare coverage reform, but no-one seems to ever get that. How the American public as a whole takes it will either raise or further lower his approval rating.

Mr.Burns
27-08-09, 13:08
I agree. Obama is also more likely to make infinitely wiser decisions than Bush too.

Wiser in some aspects but more idiotic in others. The US economy doesn't have 2 billion dollars for a cash for clunkers program (that as it is, is big government interference and has done little to spur the economy). We don't have the money for a universal health care. Hell social security will dry up in a few years and the only reason the government hasn't given anyone the option to drop out of it is because the moment they do, everyone will and there goes all the retirees nest egg.

In terms of international politics he might be more approachable than Bush and more willing to listen. In terms of economics, more spending in a government that can't afford it much longer: That's just plain stupid. FYI: I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. So no red or blue for me but right now, I'd take a Ron Regan over Obama. No more wasteful government spending.

stereopathic
27-08-09, 13:31
every president loses approval points and drops below 50% at some point. this really doesn't prove anything about how obama's handling the job. even the great ronald regan fell below 50% in less than a year.

interstellardave
27-08-09, 13:54
FYI: I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. So no red or blue for me but right now, I'd take a Ron Regan over Obama. No more wasteful government spending.

Much as I am! :tmb:

stereopathic
27-08-09, 14:04
i seem to remember a lot of flap over the deficit when reagan was in office. the amount of debt we accrued from jackson to carter, i think reagan either doubled or tripled that in his two terms. i don't think he should be considered the gold standard of meticulous federal budget maintenance. (if that was y'all's point).

Catapharact
27-08-09, 14:13
i seem to remember a lot of flap over the deficit when reagan was in office. the amount of debt we accrued from jackson to carter, i think reagan either doubled or tripled that in his two terms. i don't think he should be considered the gold standard of meticulous federal budget maintenance. (if that was y'all's point).

It could have been much much worse if today's fiscal ideology was applied back in the Regan era but keep in mind that his tight fisted economic policies ended up bringing the U.S. right back on course (which it would have eventually on its own since recession and economic boom periods are cyclic) but he sped up the process a bit.

Offcourse keep in mind everyone that during Regan's precidency, Un-Employment was at an all time high. So its a give and take senerio: Either have a lot of unemployed people and a sound budget or little unemployed people and have an unbalanced budget.

SamReeves
27-08-09, 16:35
Doesn't change the fact that Obama is infinitely more popular than Bush. The world would be in a far better place if he'd not been in power.

Ya, we got a popular President. That however does not stop the bleeding of the out of control spending and inflation concerns.

People around the world have a huge blind spot when it comes to Obama... I can't believe people are turning this topic around and bashing George Bush. I was hardly a GW fan but c'mon, people! One of the things Bush was criticized for was how the National Debt grew so much during his presidency... well now we have Obama doing the same thing at a much accelerated rate--and he does it will full intention to do so; no apologies or excuses made! How is this good for anyone... how can people make excuses for that?

I agree, and the polls show that more Americans are growing frustrated with Obama. The numbers just don't lie. 9 trillion dollars, that's the projected deficit, and it's growing by the day. Bush's deficits look pale in comparison to Obama's.

Wiser in some aspects but more idiotic in others. The US economy doesn't have 2 billion dollars for a cash for clunkers program (that as it is, is big government interference and has done little to spur the economy). We don't have the money for a universal health care. Hell social security will dry up in a few years and the only reason the government hasn't given anyone the option to drop out of it is because the moment they do, everyone will and there goes all the retirees nest egg.

In terms of international politics he might be more approachable than Bush and more willing to listen. In terms of economics, more spending in a government that can't afford it much longer: That's just plain stupid. FYI: I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. So no red or blue for me but right now, I'd take a Ron Regan over Obama. No more wasteful government spending.

I agree completely. This expansion of government programs and give-aways have to be paid somehow. The printing presses at the federal reserve can't go on forever. It means you and I are on the hook, no matter how many promises Obama makes that the rich will pay for all his programs through higher taxes. We'll all be getting higher taxes, since there just aren't enough rich to pay for it all.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 16:36
Change - because that's all you're gonna have left after Obama is through with America.

miss.haggard
27-08-09, 17:02
People around the world have a huge blind spot when it comes to Obama... I can't believe people are turning this topic around and bashing George Bush. I was hardly a GW fan but c'mon, people! One of the things Bush was criticized for was how the National Debt grew so much during his presidency... well now we have Obama doing the same thing at a much accelerated rate--and he does it will full intention to do so; no apologies or excuses made! How is this good for anyone... how can people make excuses for that?

mmhmm, I know who I voted for... Its sad to watch all this happening and people just absolutely loving the great and almighty savior Obama. Glad to see some people are opening their eyes.

Mona Sax
27-08-09, 17:36
But closing down Guantanamo wasn't a good idea at all. It just proves Obama is soft on terror.
That's just nonsense. You think you can achieve freedom by kidnapping and torturing people? All you do is dig its grave. Think you can defeat a terrorist by denying him the most basic of rights, like the right to a fair trial? All you do is become one yourself.

'Gewalt erzeugt Gegengewalt, hat man dir das nicht erzählt? Oder hast du da auch - wie so oft - einfach nicht genau zugehört?' - Die Ärzte

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/cartoon20071107.gif

silver_wolf
27-08-09, 17:37
I find it sad that some people are so delighted that Obama isn't doing so well, just because they didn't vote for him.

Spong
27-08-09, 17:41
Change - because that's all you're gonna have left after Obama is through with America.

I like the way you say that with such authority. At least have the decency to state it's a belief.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 18:02
I like the way you say that with such authority. At least have the decency to state it's a belief.It's just a parody of his slogan. As it happens I didn't even make it up. Stop being picky just because I'm criticizing the great Obama.

I find it sad that some people are so delighted that Obama isn't doing so well, just because they didn't vote for him.I don't see anybody delighted here. I think it's sad that Obama's plunging America into more debt.

Romantics Inc.
27-08-09, 18:06
He is such an idiot...Im sorry, and please excuse me for saying this, I hope everybody that voted for him, is learning their lesson...:(

SamReeves
27-08-09, 18:13
He is such an idiot...Im sorry, and please excuse me for saying this, I hope everybody that voted for him, is learning their lesson...:(

But that's asking for too much! :D

I love how the rank and file liberals here are going back to their traditional response. Obama does bad, let's bash Bush! :D I think that's more to a testament that this current President is a great American boob, because there's nothing great that BO has done so far. ;)

interstellardave
27-08-09, 18:14
^^^ But, Sam, you love boobs! :cln:

stereopathic
27-08-09, 18:23
But that's asking for too much! :D

I love how the rank and file liberals here are going back to their traditional response. Obama does bad, let's bash Bush! :D I think that's more to a testament that this current President is a great American boob, because there's nothing great that BO has done so far. ;)

but he hasn't had the time to fail either and yet the rank-n-file conservatives are constantly calling him a failure. likewise, he hasn't had the time to be called great yet either. when i see liberals pull out the bush card, i see that as only a "we tried doing it your way and that got us nowhere." and personally, i agree with that sentiment.

the jury's still out on obama; it's too soon to call either way. but because bush is fresh in our minds, it's easy to slip into comparisons. especially since the country was in shambles when he got the job and it was entirely bush's fault.

Ariel
27-08-09, 18:27
But that's asking for too much! :D

I love how the rank and file liberals here are going back to their traditional response. Obama does bad, let's bash Bush! :D I think that's more to a testament that this current President is a great American boob, because there's nothing great that BO has done so far. ;)

They're bashing Bush cuz he's the one how got the whole world (not just the usa) in this mess.

interstellardave
27-08-09, 18:29
the jury's still out on obama; it's too soon to call either way. but because bush is fresh in our minds, it's easy to slip into comparisons. especially since the country was in shambles when he got the job and it was entirely bush's fault.

Sorry... but I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they use terms like "it was entirely bush's fault".

Surely you're not telling me that Congress isn't also at fault here? No president is a dictator... and Bush certainly didn't have a friendly congress to work with during his 2nd term, so it's not like he was railroading all his ideas through. Obama, on the other hand, pretty much has a mandate... and Congress, predictably, isn't exactly standing tall against him right now.


They're bashing Bush cuz he's the one how got the whole world (not just the usa) in this mess.


Yep, it was all him, and no-one else. Other republicans... and all those Democrats in Congress had nothing to do with it! Oh, and Clinton before him, too... :rolleyes:

And other world leaders are not at all responsible... they are all perfectly capable. :rolleyes:

silver_wolf
27-08-09, 18:47
I don't see anybody delighted here. I think it's sad that Obama's plunging America into more debt.
The winking smilie in the thread title alone conveys a sense of humor about the whole thing. It's like, "ha-ha, I was right and you were wrong." And for the record, I think it's too early to say Obama has ruined the country.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 19:00
The winking smilie in the thread title alone conveys a sense of humor about the whole thing. It's like, "ha-ha, I was right and you were wrong." And for the record, I think it's too early to say Obama has ruined the country.I think it's good that some people are finally waking up to the real Obama but that's about it.

@Dave: I completely agree. I can't believe people are so blinded by their hate of W that they'll go so far as to something as illogical "everything is entirely Bush's fault." Things like congress and the senate are conveniently forgotten about when it comes to things like the Iraq War.

stereopathic
27-08-09, 19:06
Sorry... but I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they use terms like "it was entirely bush's fault".

Surely you're not telling me that Congress isn't also at fault here? No president is a dictator... and Bush certainly didn't have a friendly congress to work with during his 2nd term, so it's not like he was railroading all his ideas through. Obama, on the other hand, pretty much has a mandate... and Congress, predictably, isn't exactly standing tall against him right now.

likewise, i find it hard to take someone seriously who can't seem to grasp the folly that was bush's time as president.

bush, in what i consider to be clear violation of the constitution, expanded the president's power more than any of his predecessors. and as much as i hated clinton, the country was in far better shape when bush got the job than when obama got it. furthermore, the democratic congress in bush's second term was to scared to alienate voters in the upcoming election to stand up to the president. bush, even at what should have been his weakest, was still able to exert a fair amount of control over national policy.

as president, bush's modification of lending policies steered us into the worst financial downturn since the depression. he personally selected the disaster management service that was in charge of new orleans emergency management. he duped us into fighting a war that never needed to be fought, leaving the country's tactical back door wide open, and the bulk of the blame for 9/11 lays squarely at his administration's feet. he expanded government to enforce his own moral beliefs and is the primary reason for the split and weakening of the republican party. worst of all, he managed to do what no other president was ever capable of: our standing with the other countries of the world was shot to hell.

and this doesn't even mention that he neglected to address a health care crisis that even clinton gave a cursory glance to. these aren't the conjurations of a liberal media. these are only a part of bush's epic failure as a president.

when a company goes down the tubes, the CEO gets the blame. when a team stops producing, the coach gets sacked. when a country is fed to a meat grinder, the president gets the blame. all of it. he was our leader and he led us down the drain.

interstellardave
27-08-09, 19:12
You'll note that I didn't defend Bush at all, and I never say that Bush did no wrong; but I don't have to point those things out because this entire board does it for me... I merely said that Congress--oh, and the Judicial Branch as well--are all responsible as well. The president does not have power over those other branches of government and, if he exhibits such control, then that is the fault of those branches of goverment ceding that power to him.

We have a system of checks and balances, NOT a dictatorship. If we do effectively have a dictatorship that granted Bush ultimate power, as you suggest, then trust me... he didn't create those conditions; it's been going on for decades now... and Obama would have the same amount of illegitimate power.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 19:17
the bulk of the blame for 9/11 lays squarely at his administration's feet.How does that work?

Kittypower
27-08-09, 19:18
How does that work?

I'd like to know that too?

SamReeves
27-08-09, 19:26
I have been critical of Bush's expansion of government. And very critical of his proposals to give illegal immigrants working status in the US. You can read it here on this forum's archives. But given the alternatives (Gore, Kerry, and now Obama), I will take Bush every time. He kept us safe and that is the bottom line of his legacy.

But now this thread is about Obama… :D

Cochrane
27-08-09, 19:42
I have been critical of Bush's expansion of government. And very critical of his proposals to give illegal immigrants working status in the US. You can read it here on this forum's archives. But given the alternatives (Gore, Kerry, and now Obama), I will take Bush every time. He kept us safe and that is the bottom line of his legacy.

But now this thread is about Obama… :D

Did he? If I recall, the only major attack on the continental 48 states since the 19th century happened during his reign. I'm not blaming him for that (although it does make for funny statistics), but whether it was his fault that the US remained as safe afterwards as they were before is open to some debate.

Mona Sax
27-08-09, 19:45
I have been critical of Bush's expansion of government. And very critical of his proposals to give illegal immigrants working status in the US. You can read it here on this forum's archives. But given the alternatives (Gore, Kerry, and now Obama), I will take Bush every time. He kept us safe and that is the bottom line of his legacy.
Safe? :confused:

Iraq:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/speedymeadows/iraq.jpg

Afghanistan:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/speedymeadows/afghanistan.jpg

(source: Wikipedia)

TRfan23
27-08-09, 19:48
imo I think they should scrap anyone at the age of 45 and above in politics as they always at times make old fashioned decisions ;) Not saying Obama is, I mean he's cool and humorous, but not planting the banana throughly... ;)

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 19:51
Did he? If I recall, the only major attack on the continental 48 states since the 19th century happened during his reign. I'm not blaming him for that (although it does make for funny statistics), but whether it was his fault that the US remained as safe afterwards as they were before is open to some debate.But it happened not even a year into his term. If anyone's to blame it's Clinton for not taking the terrorist threat from Al-Qaeda seriously and not responding to the World Trade Center Bombing and the USS Cole bombing in 1993 and 2000 respectively.

@TRfan23: You're not serious are you? Just because someone's old doesn't mean their decisions are automatically going to be "old-fashioned".

Cochrane
27-08-09, 19:54
But it happened not even a year into his term. If anyone's to blame it's Clinton for not taking the terrorist threat from Al-Qaeda seriously and not responding to the World Trade Center Bombing and the USS Cole bombing in 1993 and 2000 respectively.
As I said, I don't blame Bush for 9/11, but I do wonder what you mean with "respond" here. What do you think Clinton should have done?

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 19:55
As I said, I don't blame Bush for 9/11, but I do wonder what you mean with "respond" here. What do you think Clinton should have done?Taken the threats seriously. His administration had chances to strike at Bin Laden but didn't.

Cochrane
27-08-09, 19:57
Taken the threats seriously. His administration had chances to strike at Bin Laden but didn't.

You already said that. What do you mean precisely? What country should he have attacked, what city bombed, and how would this have prevented 9/11?

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 19:58
No, he shouldn't have bombed any city or country. He should however have bombed the terrorist training camps. It's been a while since I read the 9/11 Commission Report, so forgive me if my memory is a little fuzzy on this one.

TRfan23
27-08-09, 20:09
@TRfan23: You're not serious are you? Just because someone's old doesn't mean their decisions are automatically going to be "old-fashioned".

Well in a way yes, I know not all. I'm not trying to be ageist, but many of them like to look at history and it just seems people at a younger age would understand modern society more, thus they'll do a slightly better job.
Besides most old men I know are grumpy, so old woman can stay in politics ;)

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 20:10
Perhaps we can learn a few things from history.

TRfan23
27-08-09, 20:19
Perhaps we can learn a few things from history.

Like they used to chain and torture people? I doubt that history bringing it back into law would be of any help :(

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 20:23
Err... no. There's more to history than that.

SamReeves
27-08-09, 20:25
As I said, I don't blame Bush for 9/11, but I do wonder what you mean with "respond" here. What do you think Clinton should have done?

Clinton dropped a few bombs on Al-Qaeda and quit. That was the 1993 response to the first WTC attack. That helped to prevent nothing in 2001 as the CIA was gutted by his administration, much like how Obama is doing the same now.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 20:27
If there ever is another terrorist attack Bush will of course get the blame. In fact I think Bush will get the blame for all of Obama's failures, and I'm not even joking here.

TRfan23
27-08-09, 20:31
Err... no. There's more to history than that.

Hopefully good stuff, because I know more bad stuff in history then I know good :( Which of course - School History ;)

That's actually quite funny, at school they never teach you the good parts of history. Just the bad parts like the Watergate Scandal etc... Meaning the events that were bad...

Tommy123
27-08-09, 20:53
Well i guess anyones better then bush IMO..or palin

Johnnay
27-08-09, 21:03
But closing down Guantanamo wasn't a good idea at all. It just proves Obama is soft on terror. Whether or not the Iraq war was a mistake or not is all a matter of opinion really.

And what have I told you about calling me the E word? :p

Yes. he does indeed have a soft spot on terror

Yeah, I do.


But I don't consider myself European.

you are british arent you:confused:

but you want to be a jew anyway IMO:)

Meanwhile what would happen if Mccain were to be elected President not Obama. or how about Palins role as well. what would have happened. Maybe the same as Obama is doing now

If there ever is another terrorist attack Bush will of course get the blame. In fact I think Bush will get the blame for all of Obama's failures, and I'm not even joking here.

damn youre always right about things:D

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 22:03
Well i guess anyones better then bush IMO..or palinWell, you're entitled to your opinion on Bush but how do you know what Palin would've been like as VP? I swear most people just hate her for the sake of it.


you are british arent you:confused:

but you want to be a jew anyway IMO:)Yeah, I am British.

Why do you think I want to be a Jew? :confused: Well, I'm 1/8 Jewish but that's beside the point.

wantafanta
27-08-09, 22:35
Until you republicans find those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq ......
then none of you has any business criticizing Obama.

Beans-Bot
27-08-09, 22:39
Hmm, approval ratings drop and rise rather quickly. I'm sure that once UHC is actually instated and people realize that it won't destroy their country and kill their grandmother or what-have-you, the approval rating will go right back up. :)

As others have said, every president has had a period of rather low approval ratings and Obama's no exception.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 22:48
Until you republicans find those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq ......
then none of you has any business criticizing Obama.Why? Anyway, some of your high and mighty Democrats voted for the war in Iraq.

takamotosan
27-08-09, 22:52
Alright.
I completely agree with the notion that we need to see how Obama's ideas work. However, I really dislike the notion that "ZOMG OBAHMUHH IZ TEH BESTEST PREZIDIND IN TEH HISTUREE OF TEH WUHRLD!!!!!!ONE!ELEVEN". I think a fair amount of skepticism is necessary to keep things in check. All these people CELEBRATING about Obama so early in his term is scary. I'll celebrate when he fixes things. However, I'm not gonna expect him to.

wantafanta
27-08-09, 23:32
Why? Anyway, some of your high and mighty Democrats voted for the war in Iraq.

Why? Because I think getting 5,000 US soldiers killed for nothing is far more serious than anything else you want to hold Obama accountable for. Bush didn't even include the war cost in his budget!!!! It's going to cost over a trillion dollars when all is said and done. And now you righties all of a sudden are worried about deficits? LOL!

Of course some democrats voted for the war. Because 90 percent of the country thought Iraq was behind 911. And to not back the president at the time would mean getting voted out of office by a paranoid voting public who bought Bush's lie hook, line and sinker. There is no doubt about it. The Iraq fiasco - and that is what it is - was Bush's baby, not the democrats' doing.

I will say this, if Al Gore had been president, those 5,000 US soldiers would still be alive today.

Mad Tony
27-08-09, 23:40
The Iraq "fiasco" was Bush and congress' doing, and that includes Democrats. Democrats voted for the war and therefore they're just as responsible. Accept it. You lefties seem to think Bush is entirely to blame for everything.

Again, did you go back in time and get Gore elected?

Tonyrobinson
28-08-09, 00:16
As much as I love him he's too cool to be president more of a celebrity than a leader really:(

Bowie
28-08-09, 00:16
OMG Mad Tony. Talk about persecution complex! You're the only one who seems to be referring to Obama with such reverence. Do you have a secret boner for him or something?

As far as I can tell, the reaction to Obama was expectedly pretty happy before his term got underway, and now the reaction is pretty muted, which is understandable considering very few policy decisions have even been enacted let alone followed through to be judged.

Cash for Clunkers is pretty much the only thing open for debate at the moment.

But yeah, most people judged Bush YEARS AFTER THE IRAQ WAR FAILED AND WE'D REALIZED WE'D BEEN DUPED. Obama has been President for 7 months now, and you're already crying and spitting the dummy.

Interesting to note how many qualified economists in this thread, too. Some of them seem to have forgotten who signed the Stimulus Bill.

TombRaiderFan.
28-08-09, 05:24
Oh wow, this thread is really intense :vlol:
I honestly hope that President Obama gets the country going with whatever he's doing. You never know, maybe if you give his plan time, it will work. We just have to patient, although I must admit people are lossing their jobs like crazy here.
Regarding the Health Care plan, I strongly dislike when stupid people start to call him a nazi or a socialist. People are just sooo stupid sometimes. :rolleyes: Plus, the United States must be the only country in the world that freaks out whenever they hear the word "socialism." Some need to understand socialism is NOT a bad thing, in fact, it works very nicely in countries in Europe, which also have very good health care coverage.
I'm not giving Obama a thumbs up by any means yet, because I don't think that he has proven to be worth it yet, but for the sake of the country, I hope his plan works. Otherwise we'll be in a bad economy as long as his term last and longer, and I really don't trust politicians such as Sarah Palin to solve anything either.
Let's all pray the economy gets fixed soon :)

amiro1989
28-08-09, 06:10
I don't have a blind spot when it comes to Obama. I'm simply giving him time to implement his own measures before I judge him on their success. A massive transition is in progress and Obama warned there would be no overnight miracle.

Sam's post made me smile in fact. It's typical Republican rhetoric. :)

I'm glad I'm not the only one understanding this. :D

If there ever is another terrorist attack Bush will of course get the blame. In fact I think Bush will get the blame for all of Obama's failures, and I'm not even joking here.

Funny, how the most powerful country in this world isn't even able to control those kind of situation, even though, we know that 9/11 could have been avoided. There won't be anymore terrorists attacks in the States. They're way too paranoid, and that is a good thing cuz we don't want anything like that to happen again.

Cochrane
28-08-09, 07:42
The Iraq "fiasco" was Bush and congress' doing, and that includes Democrats. Democrats voted for the war and therefore they're just as responsible. Accept it. You lefties seem to think Bush is entirely to blame for everything.

Again, did you go back in time and get Gore elected?
I'm not sure what you mean with all that time-traveling, to be honest (do you think that is what a true left-wing person should do?), but I disagree with your first part: Sure, democrats voted for the war and that was quite a mistake for them, but it wasn't exactly their idea to go there in the first place. They approved a plan by Bush's administration. Yes, they did not do everything they could to stop him, but saying that the majority of the responsibility for this war does not fall on Bush is incorrect.

Mad Tony
28-08-09, 10:30
As much as I love him he's too cool to be president more of a celebrity than a leader really:(Lol, well I don't agree with you so much about him being cool but you're definitely right about him being a celebrity more than a politician. There's such a cult of personality that surrounds Obama.

Funny, how the most powerful country in this world isn't even able to control those kind of situation, even though, we know that 9/11 could have been avoided. There won't be anymore terrorists attacks in the States. They're way too paranoid, and that is a good thing cuz we don't want anything like that to happen again.Perhaps 9/11 could've been avoided, but I don't think it would've been easy as you make it out to be. Bin Laden and co were pretty deceptive, I'll give Clinton that.

Do you have a secret boner for him or something?That would be pretty damn weird if I did.

I'm not sure what you mean with all that time-traveling, to be honest (do you think that is what a true left-wing person should do?), but I disagree with your first part: Sure, democrats voted for the war and that was quite a mistake for them, but it wasn't exactly their idea to go there in the first place. They approved a plan by Bush's administration. Yes, they did not do everything they could to stop him, but saying that the majority of the responsibility for this war does not fall on Bush is incorrect.What I mean is that a lot of people in here are going on about how the world would be a better place if Gore had won the election, but nobody knows that for certain. Again, people are just making irrational statements fueled by their blind hatred for George Bush.

As for the Iraq War, the responsibility rests on everyone involved with the planning and the decision, so yes, that includes the congressmen (even Democrats!) who voted for it.

Ward Dragon
28-08-09, 21:55
Perhaps 9/11 could've been avoided, but I don't think it would've been easy as you make it out to be. Bin Laden and co were pretty deceptive, I'll give Clinton that.

Sudan offered to give us Bin Laden but Clinton turned it down :hea:

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

TRfan23
28-08-09, 21:59
^ I just had an excellent idea, on to do with criminals :D

Freeze them! That's it, what you can do, is simply freeze them, so don't kill the ones who deserve capital punishment because they're some terrorist ;) They could do that with Bin Laden.

This is coming from someone who doesn't like killing people for any reason ;)

Ward Dragon
28-08-09, 22:03
^ Freezing is still killing. We're not good enough at cryogenics yet to bring anyone back to life from being frozen :p

TRfan23
28-08-09, 22:07
^ Freezing is still killing. We're not good enough at cryogenics yet to bring anyone back to life from being frozen :p

Then where on earth did people get the idea, that they could bring people back to life after being frozen. When they haven't yet managed to do it? Or have they managed to do it to some living organisms?

Ward Dragon
28-08-09, 22:10
Then where on earth did people get the idea, that they could bring people back to life after being frozen. When they haven't yet managed to do it? Or have they managed to do it to some living organisms?

I'm not sure how far the research has gotten, but I'm pretty sure that actually reviving a frozen person is still purely science fiction :o

Mad Tony
28-08-09, 23:02
Sudan offered to give us Bin Laden but Clinton turned it down :hea:

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htmPlease do not tell me you listen to Alex Jones!? :eek: :p

miss.haggard
29-08-09, 00:01
I'm not sure how far the research has gotten, but I'm pretty sure that actually reviving a frozen person is still purely science fiction :o

I remember seeing something on ... Discovery Health maybe, like a year ago about cryogenic freezing. I think it was people who are close to death, or have terminal illnesses and want to be frozen to hopefully be unfrozen in the future when they have more advanced medicine and can cure them. Well, I dont remember what it was called, but point is its further along than you would think it would be! :)

Ward Dragon
29-08-09, 00:14
Please do not tell me you listen to Alex Jones!? :eek: :p

I don't know who that is :o I remembered hearing that story a long time ago so I did a quick search and grabbed the first news story that came up.

I remember seeing something on ... Discovery Health maybe, like a year ago about cryogenic freezing. I think it was people who are close to death, or have terminal illnesses and want to be frozen to hopefully be unfrozen in the future when they have more advanced medicine and can cure them. Well, I dont remember what it was called, but point is its further along than you would think it would be! :)

I know they already do the freezing. I just didn't think they could do the waking-up part yet :p

Mad Tony
29-08-09, 00:22
I don't know who that is :o I remembered hearing that story a long time ago so I did a quick search and grabbed the first news story that came up.An absolute nut. Just visit Infowars (which was included in your URL for some reason) and you'll see what I mean. 9/11 was an inside job, FEMA concentration camps, chemtrails, Bush worships the devil and eats babies - all that kind of stuff.

I didn't think you listened to him anyway, you're way too intelligent for that. :p

Catapharact
29-08-09, 00:24
Please do not tell me you listen to Alex Jones!? :eek: :p


Is he the one who hosts that radio show where he gets "experts" in to verify the existance of UFOs, etc. etc. and how there is a whole conspiricy going on about covering that information up?

Mad Tony
29-08-09, 00:25
Yeah. I see him as more of a comedian than anything else.

Ward Dragon
29-08-09, 00:31
An absolute nut. Just visit Infowars (which was included in your URL for some reason) and you'll see what I mean. 9/11 was an inside job, FEMA concentration camps, chemtrails, Bush worships the devil and eats babies - all that kind of stuff.

I didn't think you listened to him anyway, you're way too intelligent for that. :p

Aw crud, that's what I get for posting the first link I saw without thoroughly checking the source XD

Mad Tony
29-08-09, 00:35
Well the actual article is from the LAtimes, but Alex Jone's site Infowars probably posted it to try and prove the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and not just Bill Clinton being stupid.

Ward Dragon
29-08-09, 00:47
Well the actual article is from the LAtimes, but Alex Jone's site Infowars probably posted it to try and prove the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and not just Bill Clinton being stupid.

Ah. In that case, pretend I posted the LA Times article directly (which is what I thought I was doing) :p

Johnnay
29-08-09, 01:22
Well the actual article is from the LAtimes, but Alex Jone's site Infowars probably posted it to try and prove the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and not just Bill Clinton being stupid.


lol

i keep on seeing Missiles hit the World Trade center or Alien Invasions of it on Youtube