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Jedd Fletcher
18-09-09, 13:00
I was just replaying the Nepal level today and came across the line "And now we know how young Arthur became king", said after Lara first gives Excalibur a swing. What exactly does this line mean? Does it mean that the power of Excalibur helped Arthur to kill many enemies, thus making him king?

na_th_an
18-09-09, 13:12
King arthur became king when he got excalibur out of the rock. I think Lara refers to such event.

RealRaider
18-09-09, 13:26
King arthur became king when he got excalibur out of the rock. I think Lara refers to such event.

Excalibur and "The sword in the stone" are two different swords. ;)

Minimus
18-09-09, 14:30
I'm pretty sure she says that because she can see how powerful he was. :confused:

Vermillion
18-09-09, 15:36
Anyone with a sword as powerful as Excalibur would easely become a King. So yes, she meant that when Arthur got Excalibur he was so mighty that no one would oppose him, and that's how he became King of England.

stereopathic
18-09-09, 16:19
Excalibur and "The sword in the stone" are two different swords. ;)

yes, in the legend but in the game, they are the same. arthur pulled the sword (excalibur) from the stone (dais) and was immediately the most powerful person in the land.

so Jedd, to answer you question, she tests it out, see's how powerful it is and realizes why arthur was instantly declared king.

The Great Chi
18-09-09, 19:31
In the case of Authur and Excalibur, I think the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail summed it all up quite nicely :D

King Arthur: I am your king.
Old Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Old Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Authur: But, I am your King
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you :p

RealRaider
18-09-09, 19:50
In the case of Authur and Excalibur, I think the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail summed it all up quite nicely :D

King Arthur: I am your king.
Old Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Old Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Authur: But, I am your King
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you :p

LOL.
This is the logical explanation.

Cloe Christina
18-09-09, 20:53
Excalibur and "The sword in the stone" are two different swords. ;)

oh .... i thought that they were the same????? :confused:

KIKO
18-09-09, 21:21
There are two swords in the game as well. Alister made sure that was clear.

Kitty Felone
25-09-09, 18:30
There are two swords in the game as well. Alister made sure that was clear.

I only recall seeing one sword... there was many arguements about the swords being different storylines.

nick styger
25-09-09, 18:50
The sword is a symbol of 'no bull****', cut the crap. Truth. Which is not always popular, and is two-edged into the bargain to complicate matters. So whoever should wield it, should beware. It cuts both ways...but the courageous man will tell his truth, no matter how much it cuts him to the quick.

nick styger
25-09-09, 18:54
Watery Tart? What delights await me on my journey into the greatest Tomb Raider game ever made? (I'm at the 3 cages room)

xXhayleyroxXx
25-09-09, 18:55
Anyone with a sword as powerful as Excalibur would easely become a King. So yes, she meant that when Arthur got Excalibur he was so mighty that no one would oppose him, and that's how he became King of England.

yep :) thats my theory anyway

remember what she says in legend -

"Excalibur...the sword in the stone...that's how it always goes isn't it."
"Pardon?"
"swords in stones Alistair.They're part of the monomyth, there wasn't just one excalibur or one Merlin;we keep seeing sowrds and daises all over the world, because they were everywhere'
"So you're saying that everywhere they went they raised up kings, shaping the cause of human destiny?"
"Well its a possibility..."

Vermillion
25-09-09, 23:46
yep :) thats my theory anyway

remember what she says in legend -

"Excalibur...the sword in the stone...that's how it always goes isn't it."
"Pardon?"
"swords in stones Alistair.They're part of the monomyth, there wasn't just one excalibur or one Merlin;we keep seeing sowrds and daises all over the world, because they were everywhere'
"So you're saying that everywhere they went they raised up kings, shaping the cause of human destiny?"
"Well its a possibility..."

Yeah, but who where "they"? The ancients? Atlanteans? I used to think it were druids like Merlin who made the Daises and swords. But since Underworld kinda ignored most of the story in Legend, I guess it has to be of Norse origin.

shadow_fire
26-09-09, 00:59
there has to be two swords...because if he pulled excalibur out of the stone he would have gone through the portal....and excalibur got given to him....

Uzi master
26-09-09, 01:14
what if it was activated and instead of it being pulled out it exploded?

shadow_fire
26-09-09, 01:19
interesting point...but how do we know that the swords were actually in the daises to begin wth?? does it say in underworld (i havnt played that one yet)
It could have well come from the lake

xXhayleyroxXx
26-09-09, 11:53
Yeah, but who where "they"? The ancients? Atlanteans? I used to think it were druids like Merlin who made the Daises and swords. But since Underworld kinda ignored most of the story in Legend, I guess it has to be of Norse origin.

good point. I think the Norse, druids and other ancient cultures, they were found all over the world so maybe many different cultures made them.

Ashnod
26-09-09, 14:42
Yeah, but who where "they"? The ancients? Atlanteans? I used to think it were druids like Merlin who made the Daises and swords. But since Underworld kinda ignored most of the story in Legend, I guess it has to be of Norse origin.

It could be none of them. The whole idea of "raising up kings" could be way off target. Simple guessing, essentially.

After all, if you have a sword or staff of great power most individuals of earlier times aren't going to have too much difficulty believing you are meant to be King or Queen. Hence why Lara says it is a possibility, and not what actually happened.

The coincidence is merely that more than one culture reacted to the Dais, the Sword Key, and passage to Paradise with comparable means.

I'm personally of the belief that the Dais Network was not intended to be an "only works once" type of mechanism. It makes little sense to create something so elaborate and intricate, with Sword Keys that can be broken apart and reconstructed with the Ghalali Key, if the intent was not to have a reliable network of locations for move between.

It's hard to say how the Ancients used the Dais Network or who kept the Keys, etc, during the time when the Network was constructed. I'm more of the belief that after the fall of the Ancient World, whatever Keys were sitting in the pedestals by abandoned caretakers long gone were seen by the primitive cultures that found them as the mythical Sword in the Stone type artifact.

GenyaArikado
26-09-09, 16:02
In the case of Authur and Excalibur, I think the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail summed it all up quite nicely :D

King Arthur: I am your king.
Old Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Old Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Authur: But, I am your King
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you :p


It was so obvious:D

Vermillion
26-09-09, 19:53
Also, after playing Underworld, you'll find out that all the places that the daises transport you to, were in our own world.

I always thought that places like Avalon, helheim, niflheim, Valhalla and so on were places beyond this world.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-09-09, 19:56
Also, after playing Underworld, you'll find out that all the places that the daises transport you to, were in our own world.

I always thought that places like Avalon, helheim, niflheim, Valhalla and so on were places beyond this world.

hmm i guess they kind of were though once Lara was through the doors - the doors were just an entrance from our world

thats how i see it anyway :)

Ashnod
26-09-09, 22:30
hmm i guess they kind of were though once Lara was through the doors - the doors were just an entrance from our world

thats how i see it anyway :)

Except that Natla was pretty specific that they were below the tectonic fault where the Pangaea super-continent once split apart. Considering she was planning on using the Jormugander mechanism to jump-start the Seventh Age, the device hidden inside Helheim's gates would most logically be within our world. Natla has little reason to be deceptive about the location of Helheim or what the machine located inside it will do.

Part of the whole monomyth theme is that myth is based upon reality, in this case, the idea of mystical underworlds filled with the souls of the dead are actually these remnants of the Ancient World full of eitr and re-animated protectors. The primitive cultures that followed the Ancient World's fall came upon them and thought of them as realms of the dead.

I don't really think there is an Avalon in anything more than name from Arthurian myth.

Zebra
26-09-09, 22:39
In the case of Authur and Excalibur, I think the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail summed it all up quite nicely :D

King Arthur: I am your king.
Old Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Old Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Authur: But, I am your King
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you :p

Then he took his sword, beheaded the two and became king :D.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-09-09, 22:41
Except that Natla was pretty specific that they were below the tectonic fault where the Pangaea super-continent once split apart. Considering she was planning on using the Jormugander mechanism to jump-start the Seventh Age, the device hidden inside Helheim's gates would most logically be within our world. Natla has little reason to be deceptive about the location of Helheim or what the machine located inside it will do.

Part of the whole monomyth theme is that myth is based upon reality, in this case, the idea of mystical underworlds filled with the souls of the dead are actually these remnants of the Ancient World full of eitr and re-animated protectors. The primitive cultures that followed the Ancient World's fall came upon them and thought of them as realms of the dead.

I don't really think there is an Avalon in anything more than name from Arthurian myth.

Very true. Aww i wanted there to be an avalon :(

Ashnod
26-09-09, 22:56
Very true. Aww i wanted there to be an avalon :(

After the way Legend ended, most of us did as well. *hug* That was part of the numb shock of Underworld's story; we weren't expecting it to be quite so dark or the truth of the Dais Network so grounded in the real world.

GenyaArikado
26-09-09, 22:57
Except that Natla was pretty specific that they were below the tectonic fault where the Pangaea super-continent once split apart. Considering she was planning on using the Jormugander mechanism to jump-start the Seventh Age, the device hidden inside Helheim's gates would most logically be within our world. Natla has little reason to be deceptive about the location of Helheim or what the machine located inside it will do.

Part of the whole monomyth theme is that myth is based upon reality, in this case, the idea of mystical underworlds filled with the souls of the dead are actually these remnants of the Ancient World full of eitr and re-animated protectors. The primitive cultures that followed the Ancient World's fall came upon them and thought of them as realms of the dead.

I don't really think there is an Avalon in anything more than name from Arthurian myth.

tht was pretty deep

xXhayleyroxXx
26-09-09, 22:58
After the way Legend ended, most of us did as well. *hug* That was part of the numb shock of Underworld's story; we weren't expecting it to be quite so dark or the truth of the Dais Network so grounded in the real world.

i still believe theres an avalon - but only because i want ton :p:hug:

Zebra
26-09-09, 23:07
After the way Legend ended, most of us did as well. *hug* That was part of the numb shock of Underworld's story; we weren't expecting it to be quite so dark or the truth of the Dais Network so grounded in the real world.

Dark? I honestly can't find anything dark in Underworld's story.

Ashnod
26-09-09, 23:17
Dark? I honestly can't find anything dark in Underworld's story.

Traveling into poisoned undergrounds full of animated dead?
The death of a trusted ally?
An old friendship sliding quickly into murderous hate?
Lara risking the end of the world for her own thirst for answers?
Finding out that she was correct all along, and that her mother actually was dead, and the brief hope she gained in Legend that she might be absolved of her guilt snuffed out?
Allowing a dangerous immortal access to a doomsday weapon?
Being forced to gun down the animated corpse of a loved one?
Sacrificing one of the greatest artifacts in all of mythology to preventing the end of the world that she herself made possible?
Learning that Alister's death, and all the deaths she caused from the first time in Bolivia up through the second massacre on one of Amanda's ships were all for naught? Meaningless blood on her hands?

This is not a bright story. It depends on how you define dark, of course. It's not dark as in say, walking through Ravenholm in Half-Life 2, dark, but it is very dark in what Lara was willing to do for something so small, and how little reward was gained in the process. On a level of the price paid for the journey, this is a pretty dark story.

Vermillion
26-09-09, 23:57
The same could be said about Helheim (nothing more than a name in Norse myth) or any other mythical place for that matter. I think Avalon is actually more of a realistic place, because there have been some islands in Great Brittain that were suggested as being Avalon's actual place. I've watched my fair share of King Arthur-documentary's (check youtube for example).

M.A.
27-09-09, 00:14
Wow, I never knew you could deeply analyze the quote. :D

As for me, I think it's just a joke/sarcasm from Lara, implying that Arthur became King simply by possesing a badass sword that shoots green light waves capable of destroying a lot of things.

Imagine how easily he won fights with an army with just one swing from that baby.... :D

the ancient
27-09-09, 11:05
yes, in the legend but in the game, they are the same. arthur pulled the sword (excalibur) from the stone (dais) and was immediately the most powerful person in the land.

so Jedd, to answer you question, she tests it out, see's how powerful it is and realizes why arthur was instantly declared king.

But if he pulled the sword out of the dais whay wouldn t he be transported to avalon :confused:

Ashnod
27-09-09, 16:25
But if he pulled the sword out of the dais whay wouldn t he be transported to avalon :confused:

Not unless the Dais was currently active. Remember in Legend during the Nepal flashback, nine-year old Lara had to push the sword IN before the Looking Glass activated, and then only after aligning the stones.

Same thing in the Bolivia finale. She puts the Key into the Dais, turning it on. Then goes and aligns the stones. Then pushes it the rest of the way in, and it activates.

If you take out the Key prior to that final point, there should be no danger.

Croft_Original
27-09-09, 17:51
In the case of Authur and Excalibur, I think the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail summed it all up quite nicely :D

King Arthur: I am your king.
Old Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Old Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Authur: But, I am your King
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you :p

Definately the best explanation:tmb:. "...watery tart...":D And if I had a sword like that...I'd be king.;)

Croft.

the ancient
29-09-09, 18:56
Not unless the Dais was currently active. Remember in Legend during the Nepal flashback, nine-year old Lara had to push the sword IN before the Looking Glass activated, and then only after aligning the stones.

Same thing in the Bolivia finale. She puts the Key into the Dais, turning it on. Then goes and aligns the stones. Then pushes it the rest of the way in, and it activates.

If you take out the Key prior to that final point, there should be no danger.

another questions how did he go to avalon because when he was dead he wasn t able to push the sword ... acording to the myth he was sed on a boat how would travel to avalon just a question :D

Uzi master
30-09-09, 03:31
because Natla says so

Ashnod
30-09-09, 05:24
another questions how did he go to avalon because when he was dead he wasn t able to push the sword ... acording to the myth he was sed on a boat how would travel to avalon just a question :D

Because it is myth, and myth alone. Arthur never went to Avalon, and he didn't even go to Helheim. Or, conversely, if he did he returned back to England using the Dais there, but it seems unlikely.

His body was entombed in England with a fragment of the Dais Key we know as Excalibur. The inscriptions in the tomb indicated that this piece was left with him to aid him when the time came for him to rise again. Lara apologizes to him when she takes the fragment.

On that end, it's highly unlikely that the missing knights are in Helheim as well, considering that the sword-key would have traveled with whomever pulled it out of the Dais, and Arthur was buried with a fragment of it.

Morsusmihi
30-09-09, 05:39
I still think that they shouldn't technically call the sword Excaliber. Especially considering that they made it clear that they knew the mythology with Alister's comment. It just proves how little CD actually pay attention to their own creations.

shadow_fire
01-10-09, 21:30
I had a though last night, about the whole touching the dials so that it transported then to heilmen, well what if the dials were set to a differnt thingy then maybe it would trasnport you to avalon. SO maybe avalon is real. Kind of like that telephone metaphore someone used...

xXhayleyroxXx
01-10-09, 21:55
I had a though last night, about the whole touching the dials so that it transported then to heilmen, well what if the dials were set to a differnt thingy then maybe it would trasnport you to avalon. SO maybe avalon is real. Kind of like that telephone metaphore someone used...

thats what i think too :) well its what id like to believe...

i really wanted her to go to helheim which is why im disapointed that they're scrapped the trilogy.

Ashnod
02-10-09, 01:05
I had a though last night, about the whole touching the dials so that it transported then to heilmen, well what if the dials were set to a differnt thingy then maybe it would trasnport you to avalon. SO maybe avalon is real. Kind of like that telephone metaphore someone used...

Unlikely. The locations of the pedestals are in real world places: Nepal, Bolivia, England, the Arctic Circle, etc. Even with the option to choose your destination, the travel network seems to be a away to move from continent to continent, sacred site to sacred site, etc, but nothing in terms of an interdimensional jump.