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View Full Version : Will you give up your voice for a day? Speak up for abortion :)


xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:21
on the 20th of october people around the world (including me) will loose their voice for a day and wear a red band round their arm to speak up for their hate for abortion.

You don't need sponsers, just a belief in whats right.

Not sure? look at pictures such as this:

WARNING! graphic image which people may find upsetting.
Mod edit: image removed

obviously that baby is quite far on in the development stage

xxx

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 19:24
Holy moly, is that what it looks like? :(
I'll be sure to try it :) :tmb:
Thanks for the awareness :hug:

My God, it truly is upsetting :'(

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:26
Holy moly, is that what it looks like? :(
I'll be sure to try it :) :tmb:
Thanks for the awareness :hug:

My God, it truly is upsetting :'(

its so nice you're gonna try hun :) and yea google it

i saw this on my friend's msn pm and i believe abortion is murder so yeah thats why im doing it

the poor things are suctioned out and killed with forceps, their limbs ripped off in the process. just urghh

robm_2007
07-10-09, 19:27
what if the someone asks you why you arent talking, how will you tell them that you are against abortion?(and thats the reason why you arent talking)

edit: im being seroius, BTW. and not trying to be a smartass or ne thing

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 19:29
I never really had any idea how it was done or anything :(
It's true, it's quite horrible, I might not be able to complete the silence, but I think I'll definately try :)


robm_2007: Write it down, or don't answer at all (you don't have to :p)

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:29
what if the someone asks you why you arent talking, how will you tell them that you are against abortion?(and thats the reason why you arent talking)

edit: im being seroius, BTW. and not trying to be a smartass or ne thing

a pen & paper :P and i might make a t-shirt

robm_2007
07-10-09, 19:31
oh, duh, you could write it.:o

there has to be some exceptions to you having to talk, like to a police officer, teacher, or your boss or someone.

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 19:33
Just write it down :)
Millions of people are mute (some even selected) and that's what they do.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:33
oh, duh, you could write it.:o

there has to be some exceptions to you having to talk, like to a police officer, teacher, or your boss or someone.

haha with teachers il still write it down and tell them before the day

Dina_Croft
07-10-09, 19:35
oh okay..I might do it...

After the pic..you just can't refuse...

Lara's home
07-10-09, 19:36
Not only will I speak. I will sing. :)

Changeling
07-10-09, 19:37
It's a good gesture and a strong way of standing up for anti-abortion, but I won't be doing it. :) I need to speak on that day anyway. :p And plus I don't really have an opinion on abortion: let them do what they wish.

Encore
07-10-09, 19:38
No, because I don't agree with you. :wve:

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 19:38
oh okay..I might do it...

After the pic..you just can't refuse...

Same :o
I always thought that many people can't help having an abortion. I still think that, but I'll still do it. I beleive it can be extremely cruel; mixed arguements, soz XD. Also, why not? The silence may do me some good :)

Hmm... I might offer to do a presentation on it too.

Dina_Croft
07-10-09, 19:39
Not only will I speak. I will sing. :)

o.0

*richietrent*
07-10-09, 19:42
Not only will I speak. I will sing. :)

o.0

^ ^ Thats exactly what i was thinking :p

Abandon Abortion!! ....NOW!

Rai
07-10-09, 19:42
Hayley, may I ask, are you against all abortions or just late ones?

That picture makes me feel sad though.

Spong
07-10-09, 19:44
You don't need sponsers, just a belief.

Fixed.
It's not a simple case of right or wrong. Just because you believe it's right doesn't mean that it always is.

And that's not in any way stating my own views on the subject.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:45
i can understand if you're not sure how you feel - rape, bad parenting or too young are all good reasons but its still alive when its suctioned out (early stage of development) or ripped apart with forceps (later stage of development )

so yeah its murder

@Rai - all, because the baby is alive while its limbs are ripped off. I do understand why people get them though.

And people you can't sing, you can't talk or laugh im afraid :( sing the next day for it! xxx

Phlip
07-10-09, 19:45
^^What is your opinion on the subject, Spong?

As for me, depends what day of the week it is.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:47
^^What is your opinion on the subject, Spong?

As for me, depends what day of the week it is.

its a tuesday hun - i think

Tony9595
07-10-09, 19:47
This won't change anything, so it'll be a normal day for me. I'm not supporting abortion, but I just don't see the point of doing this.

Bustus
07-10-09, 19:48
I appreciate it when those who think I don't have dibs on my own body stay silent. :)

Phlip
07-10-09, 19:48
That's a college day. =/

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:49
That's a college day. =/

its a school day for me, im going to tell my teachers so they're aware and you can write down why ur doing it if people ask

@Tony - its because the fetuses cant speak out - therefore we loose our voices to show this

Lara's home
07-10-09, 19:51
@Tony - its because the fetuses cant speak out - therefore we loose our voices to show this

Well, the fetuses really can't do anything. :p

Nenya awakens
07-10-09, 19:52
I wont be joining this, i believe that a woman has the right to choose.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:52
Well, the fetuses really can't do anything. :p

well yeah but they're alive when it happens and they can feel pain

Lara's home
07-10-09, 19:54
well yeah but they're alive when it happens and they can feel pain

No, they can't, unless they take the abortion really late (which I of course am against). The fetuses just live. They don't feel, they don't see and they don't think. At this stage, they just are.

violentblossom
07-10-09, 19:54
It is a noble cause, but I won't be doing this. I just got a job, lol, and doubt my employers would appreciate this. :o

I don't feel like it would change anything, either.

Sorry, Hayley. :) I think that it is grand, though, that you are standing up for your beliefs this way.

AmericanAssassin
07-10-09, 19:55
I wont be joining this, i believe that a woman has the right to choose.

Ditto. :tmb:

Spong
07-10-09, 19:56
...i believe that a woman has the right to choose.

That's as close to "right" as it gets :tmb:

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:56
It is a noble cause, but I won't be doing this. I just got a job, lol, and doubt my employers would appreciate this. :o

I don't feel like it would change anything, either.

Sorry, Hayley. :) I think that it is grand, though, that you are standing up for your beliefs this way.

thanks hun, and thats perfectly understandable :)

it wont change anything, but in a high school where people in my year are getting pregnant, its creating awareness.

Minty Mouth
07-10-09, 19:57
I'm really confused as to my feelings about abortion. I simply don't know enough to argue for or against it.

However, I respect you for standing up for what you believe in, and wish you good luck :)

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 19:57
I'm really confused as to my feelings about abortion. I simply don't know enough to argue for or against it.

However, I respect you for standing up for what you believe in, and wish you good luck :)

thanks hun :) i wish in that state of mind about it a few years back until i researched it

violentblossom
07-10-09, 19:59
thanks hun, and thats perfectly understandable :)

it wont change anything, but in a high school where people in my year are getting pregnant, its creating awareness.

Well, that's a good point. You are in a high school and I bet that that would get the attention of your peers, especially if some of them are worried about becoming pregnant and dealing with the consequences. Maybe you can carry with you a little paper explaining the choice to stay silent and how your silence relates to, like you said, an unborn baby's ability to speak.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:01
Well, that's a good point. You are in a high school and I bet that that would get the attention of your peers, especially if some of them are worried about becoming pregnant and dealing with the consequences. Maybe you can carry with you a little paper explaining the choice to stay silent and how your silence relates to, like you said, an unborn baby's ability to speak.

thats a lovely idea hun, thankyou very much :hug:

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:03
That's as close to "right" as it gets :tmb:

I'm sorry Spong, (and not trying to raise arguements) but I do not believe this is a correct statement to make in such a thread where we are discussing belief in doing something that many people would consider right and many wrong. However, most people believe, and most scientists too, that there is to be no right option, nor a wrong option, but it is what you believe in what should be done. :)

Again, just stating a point to:
1. Propose a thought about your post.
2. Clear up anything anyone may not know about abortions.

Please tell me if you wish me to edit my post and erase the points made :)

TRhalloween
07-10-09, 20:03
That's opinionated. I'd like to support research for methods which would be less brutal for the foetus but I still support abortion.

January_Snow*
07-10-09, 20:06
This is stupid, everyone has their own right to choose...
If abortions were banned teen girls all over the world would be ruining their whole lives by giving birth at 15, and what about rape victims who stayed pregnant? Why should they have a reminder about what happened through their whole life...

Abortions should be done only while the fetus hasnt developed organs yet (until its considered alive), and thats how it is today, I think its against the law to do an abortion after some weeks in pregnancy...

Dina_Croft
07-10-09, 20:06
Sry I just can't talk at all...I will wear the red thingy though...:tmb:

violentblossom
07-10-09, 20:07
This is stupid, everyone has their own right to choose...



Hayley isn't telling people they don't have a right to make a choice, she is merely standing up for her own personal beliefs.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:07
Sry I just can't talk at all...I will wear the red thingy though...:tmb:

hehe what do you mean, you're supposed to not talk :ton:
aww goodgood :) :hug:

Cochrane
07-10-09, 20:08
That's opinionated. I'd like to support research for methods which would be less brutal for the foetus but I still support abortion.

Of course it's opinionated. The entire exercise of this thread is to recruit people for an anti-abortion campaign.

Personally, I think abortion is a difficult issue, but in the end I do support a general right to it. Still, I have to admit that this is a very good and non-insulting way of campaigning against it. There is nothing preventing abortion supporters from starting something similar, of course.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:08
That's opinionated. I'd like to support research for methods which would be less brutal for the foetus but I still support abortion.

Agreed. I for one will not be silent.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:09
This is stupid, everyone has their own right to choose...
If abortions were banned teen girls all over the world would be ruining their whole lives by giving birth at 15, and what about rape victims who stayed pregnant? Why should they have a reminder about what happened through their whole life...

Abortions should be done only while the fetus hasnt developed organs yet (until its considered alive), and thats how it is today, I think its against the law to do an abortion after some weeks in pregnancy...

yeah but its legal to kill them when they have organs
i do see your point but people should do all they can to make sure they won't get themselves into a situation where abortion would be the only option.

@violentblossom - thankyou hun xxx

Hairhelmet12
07-10-09, 20:09
I'm afraid i'm not going to be doing this, i really dont have an opinion, but, i think it should be done, if a girl was raped, or something like that, but i do really hate when girls abuse it. thats what i dont like about it, its an easy way out for them to sleep around.

o0Crofty0o
07-10-09, 20:10
OMG!! I'll do it!

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:10
yeah but its legal to kill them when they have organs
i do see your point but people should do all they can to make sure they won't get themselves into a situation where abortion would be the only option.

@violentblossom - thankyou hun xxx

So it's a girls fault if she gets raped?

I agree with the part about girls just sleeping around and abusing the right, but when it comes to rape victims and young girls...

Minty Mouth
07-10-09, 20:11
There is always adoption, if the mother doesn't want to be reminded of the whole ordeal.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:12
OMG!! I'll do it!


yayy!!! hug for you hun :hug:
even though only a few have agreed to this its creating awareness :hug:


So it's a girls fault if she gets raped?

no way! i said before i can see why people do it

she doesnt have to get an abortion though does she? she can give birth, and either keep it or give it up for adoption

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:14
There is always adoption, if the mother doesn't want to be reminded of the whole ordeal.



she doesnt have to get an abortion though does she? she can give birth, and either keep it or give it up for adoption

But she'll still have to go through the process of birth and the ordeal of 9 months with something she despises living inside of her. That's not going to help her, is it?

As far as I'm concerned, it's none of my business what women do to their bodies because it's their choice. I'm not condoning the killing of unborn children, or saying that it's necessarilly okay in some situations, but it's not right for me to say whether someone should be forced to give birth to something they hate. I'm Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. Meaning that I believe a woman should have a choice.

Dina_Croft
07-10-09, 20:15
hehe what do you mean, you're supposed to not talk :ton:
aww goodgood :) :hug:

Im not obligated to..I just..don't know..my classmates would think that I'm like a weirdo or something..:pi:

But yeah since that thingy it's Red ....Hell yeah i'll wear it!:tmb:(it's my favourite collor:p)

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:17
Im not obligated to..I just..don't know..my classmates would think that I'm like a weirdo or something..:pi:

But yeah since that thingy it's Red ....Hell yeah i'll wear it!:tmb:(it's my favourite collor:p)

that's fine hunni :hug:

Minty Mouth
07-10-09, 20:18
But she'll still have to go through the process of birth and the ordeal of 9 months with something she despises living inside of her. That's not going to help her, is it?

As far as I'm concerned, it's none of my business what women do to their bodies because it's their choice. I'm not condoning the killing of unborn children, or saying that it's necesarally okay in some situations, but it's not right for me to say whether someone should be forced to give birth to something they hate. I'm Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. Meaning that I believe a woman should have a choice.

Good point. But whose to say a woman wont be strong enough to carry the baby for the 9 months.

At the moment I'm really sitting on the fence of the "Choice" camp. Ultimately, I think its the womans right while the baby is still a part of her.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:19
Good point. But whose to say a woman wont be strong enough to carry the baby for the 9 months.

At the moment I'm really sitting on the fence of the "Choice" camp. Ultimately, I think its the womans right while the baby is still a part of her.

Well if she feels that she's strong enough to go through with the pregnancy and birth, then yes, she should be allowed to. If she knows that she can cope, then good on her. I just think that women should have a choice.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:20
Well if she feels that she's strong enough to do it, then yes, she should be allowed to! If she knows that she can go through it and give birth, then good on her. I just think that women should have a choice.

im not saying she shouldnt, im very for women's rights.
i just hate abortion - i created this thread to create awareness

January_Snow*
07-10-09, 20:21
no way! i said before i can see why people do it

she doesnt have to get an abortion though does she? she can give birth, and either keep it or give it up for adoption

Thats not as simple as you think Hayley...

If a girl gets raped she needs aloooot of time to get over it, and some never do, imagine having to have a big belly for 9 months to remind you of that, and after that to feel guilty all your life cause you gave your child away...

And its not legal to kill a fetus once its organs are developed, only way to do an abortion after that is to do it illegal...

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:22
im not saying she shouldnt, im very for women's rights.
i just hate abortion - i created this thread to create awareness

That doesn't make sense at all. You say you hate abortion, yet you say you believe women should have a choice. So you're saying that women can get rid of their babies if they want, but you'll hate them for doing so and say what they're doing is wrong?

Punaxe
07-10-09, 20:23
thanks hun, and thats perfectly understandable :)

it wont change anything, but in a high school where people in my year are getting pregnant, its creating awareness.

And what do you think this campaign will do for those in your high school who are pregnant? Are you trying to tell them not to have an abortion? If I were still in high school and pregnant, I would probably feel pressured into a certain decision. I do not think this campaign benefits those for whom you say you are creating awareness. I think it only benefits the anti-abortion movement, possibly even at the cost of the poor young potential future mothers.

da tomb raider!
07-10-09, 20:23
I'm afraid that I won't be taking part in this. Abortion is often the best solution for many of the women who are in the unfortunate situation of unwanted pregnancy (I generally aim this comment at rape victims, by the way). Getting rid of it completely just wouldn't be fair or right, and on top of all that, this protest is unlikely to do much anyway (no offense to all who want to go ahead with it, mind). What I think would be better to support is simply an increased awareness of all things related to abortion. Perhaps rather than trying to get rid of abortion, it would be better to aim at trying to stop unwanted pregnancy in the first place, giving through explanations of abortions and such for more informed decisions upon it, and generally reducing promiscuity for obvious reasons. Do that, and abortions will still be there to those who really need them, but at the same time, hopefully such people will be rare.

On a side note, whilst I again don't really agree with it, I admire all who are going through with this. This'll probably sound corny or something, but truly, to give up your voice for a whole day for something you believe in is quite the feat if you ask me.

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:24
i just hate abortion - i created this thread to create awareness

No offense, but I am sure people were aware of it before this thread.

I am against abortion, but I won't be doing this as it will change nothing. I don't see the point in it.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:25
Thats not as simple as you think Hayley...

If a girl gets raped she needs aloooot of time to get over it, and some never do, imagine having to have a big belly for 9 months to remind you of that, and after that to feel guilty all your life cause you gave your child away...

And its not legal to kill a fetus once its organs are developed, only way to do an abortion after that is to do it illegal...

yeah i know i have a massive fear of being raped - i also know people who have been but havn't spoken out

if i were raped i know i would keep the baby - because i believe aborption is wrong

@Nannonxyay - i think women have the right to choose but i dont agree with it

@carbonek - actually you'd be surprised at how many people didnt know the full story and asked what the picture was of.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:27
yeah i know i have a massive fear of being raped - i also know people who have been but havn't spoken out

if i were raped i know i would keep the baby - because i believe aborption is wrong

@Nannonxyay - i think women have the right to choose but i dont agree with it

@carbonek - actually you'd be surprised at how many people didnt know the full story and asked what the picture was of.

Still doesn't make sense at all. You're totally contradicting yourself by saying that.

I don't see why being silent for a day will achieve anything anyways. Your voice is the only way to make your opinions heard.

Lara Fan 4Life
07-10-09, 20:27
My parent's friend had an abortion a few years again. She lied in saying the baby was only 12 weeks old, when in actual fact it was around 3-4months old (Don't know how they didn't spot it), but the baby came out in all pieces, and she's been suffering from depression ever since as to what she's done! :(

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:29
Still doesn't make sense at all. You're totally contradicting yourself by saying that.

I don't see why being silent for a day will achieve anything anyways. Your voice is the only way to make your opinions heard.

not in my head im not and a lot of people are with me - including my mum who is glad im doing this

she miscarried before she had me :o

and it works because people will be like 'hmm why's she not talking?' and then they'll ask and il show them the piece of paper like violentblossom suggested

@Lara Fan 4life - thankyou for sharing that story -would you mind if i used tht to create awareness?

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:29
@carbonek - actually you'd be surprised at how many people didnt know the full story and asked what the picture was of.

Don't you think the picture is a little extreme though? I certainly wouldn't show it to anyone no matter how sad it is.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:31
Don't you think the picture is a little extreme though? I certainly wouldn't show it to anyone no matter how sad it is.

no, theres no point in hiding the truth

its harsh but reality

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:32
no, theres no point in hiding the truth

its harsh but reality

Well what do you think would be gained by showing the pic? People would suddenly change their beliefs?

Lara Fan 4Life
07-10-09, 20:33
@Lara Fan 4life - thankyou for sharing that story -would you mind if i used tht to create awareness?

No, go ahead! :)

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:33
Well what do you think would be gained by showing the pic? People would suddenly change their beliefs?

I kinda did after seeing it :o

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:34
Well what do you think would be gained by showing the pic? People would suddenly change their beliefs?

it shocks people & makes them realise - creating awareness

No, go ahead! :)

thanks so much hun :hug: i really appreiciate it

@croftgamegirl - thankyou :) it shows this is working :)

theres worse ones :(

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:37
it shocks people & makes them realise - creating awareness

So basically you are going to the extreme to try and change people's opinions? Shame on you.

Like I said, I am against abortion but I would never try to change someone's opinion. Especially with such a disgusting extreme pic.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:37
not in my head im not and a lot of people are with me - including my mum who is glad im doing this

she miscarried before she had me :o

and it works because people will be like 'hmm why's she not talking?' and then they'll ask and il show them the piece of paper like violentblossom suggested

@Lara Fan 4life - thankyou for sharing that story -would you mind if i used tht to create awareness?

My mother miscarried three times before she had me. She was determined to have a baby, so she had me. I could have been aborted because they thought I may have developed Downs Syndrome, but she chose to keep me. It was her choice to keep me and I think everyone should have that choice.

Really, what you're doing is using scare tactics to spark emotion within people and recruit them on your side which I believe isn't fair. People should have a right to choose which side their on and don't need people pestering them to change their minds by showing them graphic images. It's guilt tripping and totally unfair on the person. It's like you're sublimingly brainwashing them into agreeing with you. PETA does the same thing by showing images of slaughtered animals, to spark emotion within people and try and force them into going veggie.

And I know people are with you and I respect that other people have different opinions on such a touchy subject. I was just discussing how your techniques are rather flawed.

Psychos'Я'Us
07-10-09, 20:37
I won't take part in this and I support abortion, I believe it's a woman's choice.

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:39
So basically you are going to the extreme to try and change people's opinions? Shame on you.

Like I said, I am against abortion but I would never try to change someone's opinion. Especially with such a disgusting extreme pic.

I personally think she's just trying to create awareness, and for those who don't know much about it, (E.g me) she's trying to inform.
That's what I think :)

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:40
@carbonek and nannonxyay - well sorry you both think that way - but did i force you to open this thread? no. you chose to. you didnt need to open the picture - i did post a warning.

it'll be the same with the sheet il be carrying round there'll be a warning and a choice to turn the page to see images.

and actually i support peta.

im not gonna sit on my ass and do nothing about things i believe are wrong, i sign petitions and take part in exercises like these to create awareness.

@croftgamegirl - you're 100% right hunni, thanks a lot *hug*
xx

Punaxe
07-10-09, 20:40
My mother miscarried three times before she had me. She was determined to have a baby, so she had me. I could have been aborted because they thought I may have developed Downs Syndrome, but she chose to keep me. It was her choice to keep me and I think everyone should have that choice.

Really, what you're doing is using scare tactics to spark emotion within people and recruit them on your side which I believe isn't fair. People should have a right to choose which side their on and don't need people pestering them to change their minds by showing them graphic images. It's guilt tripping and totally unfair on the person. It's like you're sublimingly brainwashing them into agreeing with you. PETA does the same thing by showing images of slaughtered animals, to spark emotion within people and try and force them into going veggie.

And I know people are with you and I respect that other people have different opinions on such a touchy subject. I was just discussing how your techniques are rather flawed.

I agree with this. Also xXhayleyroxXx, could you respond to my post earlier?

And what do you think this campaign will do for those in your high school who are pregnant? Are you trying to tell them not to have an abortion? If I were still in high school and pregnant, I would probably feel pressured into a certain decision. I do not think this campaign benefits those for whom you say you are creating awareness. I think it only benefits the anti-abortion movement, possibly even at the cost of the poor young potential future mothers.

Beans-Bot
07-10-09, 20:40
Hmm, I might take part. I guess it depends on how much I need to talk that day and what mood I'm in. :)

Seeing as the thread quickly went in this direction, I kinda wish there was a Pro/Anti-Abortion poll included.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:42
Hmm, I might take part. I guess it depends on how much I need to talk that day and what mood I'm in. :)

Seeing as the thread quickly went in this direction, I kinda wish there was a Pro/Anti-Abortion poll included.

that would be helpful actually :) im all for a poll

@punaxe - sure il try find it - i didnt realise lol

EDIT: its making them see that although abortion is an option, it has consequences

like Lara Fan 4life's story - that little incident concerning abortion ruined a life.

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:43
@croftgamegirl - you're 100% right hunni, thanks a lot *hug*
xx

It's okay, I'm just stating thoughts :) And I believe you have a point. :tmb: :hug:

I'm not arguing Nannonxyay or Carbonek, though.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:43
@carbonek and nannonxyay - well sorry you both think that way - but did i force you to open this thread? no. you chose to. you didnt need to open the picture - i did post a warning.

it'll be the same with the sheet il be carrying round there'll be a warning and a choice to turn the page to see images.

and actually i support peta.

im not gonna sit on my ass and do nothing about things i believe are wrong, i sign petitions and take part in exercises like these to create awareness.

@croftgamegirl - you're 100% right hunni, thanks a lot *hug*
xx

You're the sort of person who thinks with your heart and not with your head and I pity you for that. You don't seem to be able to logically back-up your arguments so instead you show people images of dead babies to try and make them join your side. It's a form of terrorism if you ask me. Like you're tortuing them with these images to try and get them to join you.

Yes it was my choice to open the thread and I did. But it's also my right as a human to give my opinion, and I have done so.

Bustus
07-10-09, 20:44
I personally think she's just trying to create awareness, and for those who don't know much about it, (E.g me) she's trying to inform.
That's what I think :)

Awareness of what, exactly? I'd hope it's fairly common knowledge that an abortion doesn't just magically remove the fetus from your womb.

The reasons why abortions happen go well beyond "not knowing better".

MiCkiZ88
07-10-09, 20:45
Awareness of being carefull with what you do is fine and all, but like others have said, I still do think any woman has the right to choose what they do. They have the right to learn not to get pregnant at some highschool party, and stupid highschool guys need to learn to use protection. Having a baby at that age is pointless.I won't take part in this and I support abortion, I believe it's a woman's choice.
This.

And the world is way too overpopulated anyways. We need to create more awareness of that.

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:45
I personally think she's just trying to create awareness, and for those who don't know much about it, (E.g me) she's trying to inform.
That's what I think :)
No, she's trying to force her opinion on others.
@carbonek and nannonxyay - well sorry you both think that way - but did i force you to open this thread? no. you chose to. you didnt need to open the picture - i did post a warning.

it'll be the same with the sheet il be carrying round there'll be a warning and a choice to turn the page to see images.

and actually i support peta.

im not gonna sit on my ass and do nothing about things i believe are wrong, i sign petitions and take part in exercises like these to create awareness.
No you didn't force me to open this thread, and I couldn't care less about looking at the pic because I have a strong stomach and can handle things like that.

But what you are trying to do is wrong, you are trying to change people's opinions and hope they'll all go against it. That's not how it works Hayley, people have their beliefs. You can't try to change that, it doesn't work that way. If they want to change their minds let them do it themselves. And there is nothing wrong with standing up for your beliefs, but pressing them on others is in fact wrong.
Awareness of what, exactly? I'd hope it's fairly common knowledge that an abortion doesn't just magically remove the fetus from your womb.
Exactly.:tmb:

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:46
Awareness of what, exactly? I'd hope it's fairly common knowledge that an abortion doesn't just magically remove the fetus from your womb.

The reasons why abortions happen go well beyond "not knowing better".

Awareness of what can be many different things. Awareness of the details of abortions, awareness of problems it can cause, awareness of the effect it has on the world or maybe just awareness of this event :) That's what I believe.

Edit: Carbonek: I wasn't considering on doing this silence, but I saw the picture and realised for myself, what it can be. I now want to do this event. Hayley never told me to do it and if she didn't post this thread or the pic then I wouldn't even know of this event, and for that, I thank her :) I do not believe she is enforcing opinions, however, each to their own, I don't want to turn this into a nasty arguement over just some opinions, if you see what I mean. :)

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:47
You're the sort of person who thinks with your heart and not with your head and I pity you for that. You don't seem to be able to logically back-up your arguments so instead you show people images of dead babies to try and make them join your side. It's a form of terrorism if you ask me. Like you're tortuing them with these images to try and get them to join you.

Yes it was my choice to open the thread and I did. But it's also my right as a human to give my opinion, and I have done so.

im not actually, i think with heart and head. I have a voice and i use it - in this case i choose not to but support the case in another way.

its like my vegetarianism - i dont hate my family who eat meat - i just dont think its right.

i get a thrill out of doing it as it helps - particularly with animal cruelty cases. I rescue abandoned animals and the rspca ask us to take animals in when their shelter's are full.

Im the type of person who stands up for what they believe is right.

@carbonek - how am i forcing an opinion? im keeping quiet and if people ask why il write why. if they want to know more il show them and help them find out more.

Nannonxyay
07-10-09, 20:48
No, she's trying to force her opinion on others.
No you didn't force me to open this thread, and I could care less about looking at the pic because I have a strong stomach and can handle things like that.

But what you are trying to do is wrong, you are trying to change people's opinions and hope they'll all go against it. That's not how it works Hayley, people have their beliefs. You can't try to change that, it doesn't work that way. If they want to change their minds let them do it themselves. And there is nothing wrong with standing up for your beliefs, but pressing them on others is in fact wrong.

Agreed completely. I feel the same way about religious activists who try and convert non-believers. Sure they believe that what they're doing will help and that they're trying to save them, but it's not fair. You're pushing your beliefs on others and pressuring them to believe in what you believe.

@Hayley, but you're not standing up for what you believe is right. You're shoving your opinions on other people by trying to scare them into joining you.

irjudd
07-10-09, 20:49
...and I could care less about looking at the pic because I have a strong stomach and can handle things like that..


Couldn't care less. Unless you do care some about it.

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 20:51
Couldn't care less. Unless you do care some about it.

LMAO Thanks Judd.:p

Still waking up, and typing extremely fast.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:51
Agreed completely. I feel the same way about religious activists who try and convert non-believers. Sure they believe that what they're doing will help and that they're trying to save them, but it's not fair. You're pushing your beliefs on others and pressuring them to believe in what you believe.

@Hayley, but you're not standing up for what you believe is right. You're shoving your opinions on other people by trying to scare them into joining you.

no im not, like i said; they'll only see horrible pictures if they want to. im really sensitive so i know i wouldnt want it forced on me.

Bustus
07-10-09, 20:51
Awareness of what can be many different things. Awareness of the details of abortions, awareness of problems it can cause, awareness of the effect it has on the world or maybe just awareness of this event :) That's what I believe.

The argument here seems to be "look at this picture, abortion is evil".

What some need to understand is that the "killing unborn babies" part of abortion is not the good part. No one likes that part. Thing is, as far as a lot of people are concerned, the "not forcing women into being incubators against their will" part trumps it.

tombofwinston
07-10-09, 20:53
So basically you are going to the extreme to try and change people's opinions? Shame on you.

Like I said, I am against abortion but I would never try to change someone's opinion. Especially with such a disgusting extreme pic.

I Think the Pic was just to show people what actually a Foetus looks like after being aborted and show how terrible it was, But there normally is a Ulterior motive to sway people on sides, But quite often just Big Charities like RSPCA and Animal cruelty Pics, Although I Kinda wish I'd never clicked the link, Discusting Stuff, and I don't respond well to Sad Images of Abortion or Animals.
My view still dosen't change, Abortions for Rape Victims non for the Local Slut basicaly, Unless the Foetus is Very young and Barely Developed, Also If a person does Happen to have an abortion, Because of one of the reasons It should be done Humanely E.G Try to minimise pain to the Foetus (If it can feel any ? ).

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:54
The argument here seems to be "look at this picture, abortion is evil".

What some need to understand is that the "killing unborn babies" part of abortion is not the good part. No one likes that part. Thing is, as far as a lot of people are concerned, the "not forcing women into being incubators against their will" part trumps it.

no its not which is why i stated a warning. the majority of the education will be case studies & facts - no pictures. the pics are if people would like to see.

people got to school to be educated - im sure some people will be interested as to why im not talking and why im wearing a red band.

woody543
07-10-09, 20:54
Don't you think the picture is a little extreme though? I certainly wouldn't show it to anyone no matter how sad it is.

I agree the picture is very extreme, and there have been extremists who have driven round in vans with pictures similar to that.

I won't be staying silent, I am very pro-choice, obviously not to the extent where the foetus is developed.

Being male, I obviously can't have the same input as the mother, however what I do feel strongly with is people forcing others to do things, (this is not atall referring to you Hayley, more to those extremists in vans, and can also be related to many other issues) I belive women should have choice.

I'm not sure about this picture, but I know that there has been evidence suggesting that some of the pictures were actually staged, with the foetus actually having died naturally late in the pregnancy, and then sold as an abortion picture.

CroftGameGirl
07-10-09, 20:55
May I state:
Hayley most probably created this thread to inform people about this event. People who are interested in doing this silence at their own free will, and people who don't, that is perfectly fine, you simply do not agree; however, I think it is no excuse to argue with Hayley over this.

Punaxe
07-10-09, 20:55
no its not which is why i stated a warning. the majority of the education will be case studies & facts - no pictures. the pics are if people would like to see.

people got to school to be educated - im sure some people will be interested as to why im not talking and why im wearing a red band.

Oh you have a whole educational programme prepared? Could share with us these case studies and facts?

Lara's home
07-10-09, 20:56
Please keep in mind everyone, that this picture is extreme. I dobut that fetus is 12 weeks or younger, which is what the legal limit is (at least in most countries), unless the baby has downs syndrome or something.
The abortion haters will always look for the worst and most disgusting example of abortion, and argue with that.
Most abortions are not like that.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 20:58
Oh you have a whole educational programme prepared? Could share with us these case studies and facts?

its a w.i.p for the 20th, and since i only found out tonight about the event i dont exactly have it prepared.

LaraFan4life shared a case study - which is educational and im so appreciative for it.

Il post relavent points on the piece of paper and the images will be overleaf and small - with a warning that the images are distressing.

Kelly Craftman
07-10-09, 20:59
Hayley i will do this, but i think Abortion has some positives reasons :hug:

Punaxe
07-10-09, 20:59
its a w.i.p for the 20th, and since i only found out tonight about the event i dont exactly have it prepared.

LaraFan4life shared a case study - which is educational and im so appreciative for it.

Il post relavent points on the piece of paper and the images will be overleaf and small - with a warning that the images are distressing.

That was not a case study, that was a mere anecdote, and one that conveniently supports your case. If you would like us to help you in creating a balanced report of actual case studies and facts, please let us know.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 21:00
Hayley i will do this, but i think Abortion has some positives reasons :hug:

so do i hunni, like the rape victims - but its a last resort and i dont think its right.

thanks so much :) xx

@punaxe - okay sure post away.

violentblossom
07-10-09, 21:00
Hayley i will do this, but i think Abortion has some positives reasons :hug:

I think "positive" is the wrong word. Abortion is never positive.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 21:02
I think "positive" is the wrong word. Abortion is never positive.

yeah true but i understand what kelly is saying - that she can see why abortion happens.

thanks for helping hunni :hug:

adventurerLara
07-10-09, 21:13
I will not be supporting this. But good for you, anyway.

Rai
07-10-09, 21:15
I agree, Lara's Home.

I'm all for choice. A woman's choice whether or not to have an abortion, a personal choice whether to support the cause or not. I had a choice whether to click on the link ans see the picture. In doing so, I was effected by it,it is upsetting to see. But, it is a picture of a late abortion of what looks like a mostly fully developed foetus. This is not the whole facts about all abortions. How early legal abortion is different and can be done by taking a pill and that teh embryo is barely developed.

What if a young girl in your school is in early pregnancy and they were thinking about having an abortion but seeing this picture makes them feel guilty and they change their mind? That's good right? It means that one baby is being saved. Well, what if that girl stays pregnant but in doing so it leaves her feeling guilty first, confused and eventually she ends up feeling depressed? She learns to hate her unborn child and then gives her baby up for adoption? Is hating her own unborn child really the best solution?

I know this is an extreme possible outcome, but so is this picture. It's an extreme view you're putting across. I'd feel better if it were accompanied by a detailed fact sheet that goes into all aspects of abortion and you can give details for support groups for both sides or something similar.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 21:17
I agree, Lara's Home.

I'm all for choice. A woman's choice whether or not to have an abortion, a personal choice whether to support the cause or not. I had a choice whether to click on the link ans see the picture. In doing so, I was effected by it,it is upsetting to see. But, it is a picture of a late abortion of what looks like a mostly fully developed foetus. This is not the whole facts about all abortions. How early legal abortion is different and can be done by taking a pill and that teh embryo is barely developed.

What if a young girl in your school is in early pregnancy and they were thinking about having an abortion but seeing this picture makes them feel guilty and they change their mind? That's good right? It means that one baby is being saved. Well, what if that girl stays pregnant but in doing so it leaves her feeling guilty first, confused and eventually she ends up feeling depressed? She learns to hate her unborn child and then gives her baby up for adoption? Is hating her own unborn child really the best solution?

I know this is an extreme possible outcome, but so is this picture. It's an extreme view you're putting across. I'd feel better if it were accompanied by a detailed fact sheet that goes into all aspects of abortion and you can give details for support groups for both sides or something similar.

il make sure i post all of what you mentioned on the sheet il have :)

i coudl find an early pic? they suction it out and the limbs are ripped apart

20 weeks - http://www.abortion.org.au/Gestation%20Sac%206-7%20weeks.jpg

thats very early

larson n natla
07-10-09, 21:43
il make sure i post all of what you mentioned on the sheet il have :)

i coudl find an early pic? they suction it out and the limbs are ripped apart

20 weeks - http://www.abortion.org.au/Gestation%20Sac%206-7%20weeks.jpg

thats very early

I thought a baby over 24 weeks could no of be terminated but I'm probably wrong, I don't want to discourage you but I won't be supporting the cause purely because of the depression and stress a prospect of abortion causes for a woman who will probably have regrets no matter what choice she picks. And will obviously be judged purely on her choice should she have an abortion by some poeple with extreme views but good luck and I hope you find many people to support your cause Hayley :) (Hope I don't sound completely heartless in this post :( )

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 21:48
I thought a baby over 24 weeks could no of be terminated but I'm probably wrong, I don't want to discourage you but I won't be supporting the cause purely because of the depression and stress a prospect of abortion causes for a woman who will probably have regrets no matter what choice she picks. And will obviously be judged purely on her choice should she have an abortion by some poeple with extreme views but good luck and I hope you find many people to support your cause Hayley :) (Hope I don't sound completely heartless in this post :( )

im not sure but heres a sketch oh how the late second and third trimester babies are removed:

http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Partial-Birth_Abortion.jpg

not nice :(

oh and heres an article i found interesting about a women who actually had an abortion -

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.togetherforlife.ca/images/Fetus.GIF&imgrefurl=http://www.togetherforlife.ca/prochoice/&usg=__Fpaq0cWUbSOIaJ0CeP7Fm-pPaXY=&h=289&w=421&sz=84&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=xDWGKFqs1rnPCM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dearly%2Babortion%2Bbaby%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DX%26um%3D1

Simochka
07-10-09, 21:50
I do not support anything that's against abortion.
But good luck :)

Lavinder
07-10-09, 21:51
Misrepresentation
A considerable number of anti-abortion visuals feature an almost fully developed fetus. Abortions preformed at this stage via hysterotomy or D&X abortions are rare. Only about 1.5% of abortions are performed at 21-weeks or older, according to according to a 2000 study conducted by the Nation Center for Chronic Disease (CDC). A July 1992 LIFE magazine article, The Great Divide, reported that Reverend Robert Schenk, member of anti-choice coalition Operation rescue, attended a demonstration outside an abortion clinic in Buffalo, NY, with "Baby Tia", a 7-inch, gray-tinted and formaldehyde-soaked dead fetus. In the escalating madness of the crowd, the fetus was dropped onto the sneaker-trodden street. Authorities arrested Schenk and confiscated the fetus, which was taken to a coroner, only to be identified as an approximately 20-week-old stillborn. The article reads, "Many pro-choice supporters in Buffalo are angry about the distance between their reality-what they see in the clinics-and the images the anti-abortionists present as fact. 'What they are showing to the public is a lie,' says Joni Ladowski, a nurse at a nearby clinic, as she unfolds a length of gauze. In the center lies what appears to be a clot the size of a peanut. It is a fetus, nine weeks old. 'This is an abortion,' she says."


http://www.abortion.org.au/rev_schenk.jpg

Tear-drop baby
First used in the anti-abortion campaign by Dr. J.C. Willke, president and founder of International Right to Life, in his 1971 book, Handbook on Abortion, this picture has circulated through anti-choice brochures and websites without much question of its origin or accuracy. This picture depicts a ruptured tubal pregnancy that Willke would like you to believe is 6-weeks-old.

A 6-week-old fetus, from crown-to-rump, measures 4-5 mm, according to William's Obstetrics, or 1/6-1/5 inch (the size of a BB pellet). The fetus in the photo, when compared to the fingers holding it, appears to be about an inch in length or the size of an 8- to 10-week-old fetus.


http://www.abortion.org.au/teardropbaby.jpg




We have also posted a photo of a 6-week-old fetus that was published in A Child is Born, by Lennart Nilsson. The two are demonstrably different! Accurately labeling the fetus's gestational age is important because this photo represents the mortality of developing life. One may look at this picture and see a fetus only into its second month of development and think, "look how far it's come." But when labeled accurately, this fetus would be approaching its second trimester, a period when only 12% of abortions are performed, according to the CDC abortion surveillance.

The least apparent, yet possibly the most disturbing element of this photo is its attribution. Although the caption reads, "Photo by Robert Wolfe, with permission Bell Museum of Pathology, University of Minnesota," the Bell Museum at U of M is a natural history museum; it always has been. And when we asked Willke for information from his copy, he said it was simply not in his possession anymore. This photo gained its popularity partially because of Willke, yet he doesn't even have his original copy.





http://www.abortion.org.au/sixweekfetus.jpg







Gestational Age
Accurately labeling the fetus in a picture is a testament to the source's credibility. Unfortunately, a collection of pro-life web sites and brochures label their pictures through a method inconsistent with medical practices. Gestational age can be labeled by the date of conception or by the last menstrual cycle. The medical establishment goes by the latter. However, when I asked Willke which method he used, he replied in an email, "This all depends on the picture, the source references and the use in reference." Willke labeled the picture to the right as a 10-week-old fetus in his book, Handbook on Abortion. However, it was later identified as a 12- to 14-week-old fetus by Dr. Andrew Ross, Denver ob-gyn. Apparently, consistency was not a priority in the identification of this photo, nor were the standards of the medical community.

http://www.abortion.org.au/gestationalage.jpg


Malachi
Malachi, the literal poster-child for the anti-choice campaign, is a gruesome example of inaccuracy. The back of this 3 x 5 inch card claims that the fetus's life ends in pain. However, judging from the fetus's gray skin, it was aborted via laminaria through an intra-amniotic injection or was done to preserve the mother's life, Andrew Ross. If the procedure was done while the fetus was alive, its skin would be the pinkish color of its left leg.

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Lavinder/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.pngfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Lavinder/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.pnghttp://www.abortion.org.au/malachi.jpg





Choice is Abortion
This picture, also distributed on a 3 x 5 inch card and used in numerous anti-abortion campaigns is equally inconsistent. If the forceps securing its head over the jar are standard OR ring forceps, the ring is 1 x 0.5 centimeters, which would mean that the head is too small to be in its third trimester, yet one less developed would not have that much hair, says Dr. Ross. "I strongly suspect that this picture is fake, and the information on the back of the card certainly does not match what's shown," he adds. The second, and most obvious, fallacy lies within the description. It says that the pictured fetus was aborted in 1987 in Texas. However, that was the year that third trimester abortions were banned, rendering the alleged procedure altogether illegal.

http://www.abortion.org.au/head.jpg

Photograph from Foundation for Life
10900 NW Freeway #112
Houston, TX 77092

Fetal Brain Waves
The National Right to Life Committee released a pamphlet, When Does Life Begin, which states that at six weeks, a fetus has measurable brain waves detected by a an electroencephalogram. But using hard-to-pronounce medical terms to gain credibility does not add substance to this dubious claim. Even at 7-weeks into development, a fetus's brain is the size of a pinhead. Detecting minute brain activity through all the muscle contractions that go on inside a woman's mid-region is a medically unsubstantiated assertion that has not been published in any peer-reviewed journal.

The same pamphlet also cites an article, "What the fetus feels," from the British Medical Journal. This article, lacking any references to studies, supports the organization's claim that the fetus can feel pain. However, in its conclusion, it reads "It is hardly surprising that infants delivered by difficult forceps extraction act as if they have a sever headache." A severe headache?!? How does a newly delivered infant act as if it has a severe headache? This article is simply an example of how anti-choice activists use flawed sources and fallacious information to prove an often medically-unsubstantiated point. For example, Willke, despite outright refutes from The National Cancer Institute, the American Cancer Society, and the American Coalition of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, insists that abortion causes breast cancer.



More Information on images, fetal pain, embryology and fetal personhood:


http://www.abortion.org.au/Abortion1.gif




This photo first appeared in the book "Handbook on Abortion", written by Dr. & Mrs J.C. Willke and published in 1971. The caption reads: "This is the result of one morning's work in a Canadian teaching hospital."

Prior to 1969, abortion was completely illegal in Canada. From 1969 to1988 abortion was highly restricted and women who needed abortions had to have their cases heard by Therapeutic Abortion Committees, three doctors, who would decide if their abortions were "medically necessary". Many women were turned down. Dr. Morgentaler did perform abortions but his clinics were illegal and he went to jail for ten months.

With draconian abortion laws in place it's impossible that several "babies" would be aborted routinely on a daily basis. In addition, hospitals don't throw fetuses in Gladbag-lined bins. It apppears that the fetuses/babies in the photo are either premature deliveries or stillbirths "arranged" for the photo shoot by anti abortion hospital staff.
I believe abortions should be perfectly acceptable at a very early stage of pregnancy - there are millions of children in care and up for adoption. People who keep the baby may not be able to support them, and give them the life they should of had. Some people resent their children because they were not wanted, and take to abusing them.

LaraLuvrrr
07-10-09, 21:53
That picture is disgusting...

but to be honest I just can't take a stance on this issue... I clearly see both sides..

I guess I'm against abortion but only if the mother has not been a victim of rape or some crime.

Lara's home
07-10-09, 21:53
im not sure but heres a sketch oh how the late second and third trimester babies are removed:

http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Partial-Birth_Abortion.jpg

not nice :(
Again, to take an abortion that late is illegal in most countries. Max 12 weeks unless it has Downs syndrome or anything. This is the first trimester, and it is in this trimester the featus develops organs. It doesn't have them yet. It develops them.
Anyhing later than that is illegal, so protesting against that is pointless.

Simochka
07-10-09, 21:57
That picture is disgusting...

but to be honest I just can't take a stance on this issue... I clearly see both sides..

I guess I'm against abortion but only if the mother has not been a victim of rape or some crime.

What if the condom broke? Or they where drunk when they had sex? Or if they have economical problems and bad income. Should a child need to grow up poor? Or what if the woman gets pregnant and then regrets it and don't want to take care of a child?
Then abortion would be the best thing both for the woman and the child.

Spong
07-10-09, 21:59
What if the condom broke? Or they where drunk when they had sex? Or if they have economical problems and bad income. Should a child need to grow up poor? Or what if the woman gets pregnant and then regrets it and don't want to take care of a child?
Then abortion would be the best thing both for the woman and the child.

What about adoption?

Lara's home
07-10-09, 21:59
What if the condom broke? Or they where drunk when they had sex? Or if they have economical problems and bad income. Should a child need to grow up poor? Or what if the woman gets pregnant and then regrets it and don't want to take care of a child?
Then abortion would be the best thing both for the woman and the child.

Or what if a man and a woman decides to get a child, and the man gets second thoughts and leaves her. Now it's entirely the woman's responsibillity, and taking abortion is teh same as killing a baby.
What about adoption?

There are enough children up for adoption as it is. It's not like we need more orphans, to put it like that.

Spong
07-10-09, 22:02
There are enough children up for adoption as it is. It's not like we need more orphans, to put it like that.

So in the situations Simochka defined in their post, you think that abortion is the only way to go?

Simochka
07-10-09, 22:05
What about adoption?

So they have to go through 9 months of pregnancy and ruin their body? (breast, hips and skin)

Or what if a man and a woman decides to get a child, and the man gets second thoughts and leaves her. Now it's entirely the woman's responsibillity, and taking abortion is teh same as killing a baby.

That's a problem too. And no abortion is not the same thing as killing IMO. A few weeks old ''baby'' can't see, hear, think or anything. It's just a alien looking growing thing. If I would make an abortion on a woman it wouldn't be the same thing as killing a few months old baby on a playground or something.

BTW i'm just saying my opinion. I just find it hard to know how people againts abortion thinks. I would like to know peoples opinions :)(and saying abortion is murder is not enough)

So in the situations Simochka defined in their post, you think that abortion is the only way to go?

Well if you can't/ don't want to take care of it. And aren't able to put it up for adobtion. Then abortion is the only way. What else? Throw it in a dumpster?

Lara's home
07-10-09, 22:05
So in the situations Simochka defined in their post, you think that abortion is the only way to go?

Only.. No. But it's as good as any. The featus wont mind.

woody543
07-10-09, 22:06
I believe abortions should be perfectly acceptable at a very early stage of pregnancy - there are millions of children in care and up for adoption. People who keep the baby may not be able to support them, and give them the life they should of had. Some people resent their children because they were not wanted, and take to abusing them.

This is how I feel, you have to think of the child and its health.

violentblossom
07-10-09, 22:07
So they have to go through 9 months of pregnancy and ruin their body? (breast, hips and skin)



'Scuse me, I know you don't mean offense, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I have had a child, and my body is in NO way ruined. In no way. Changed a little, maybe, but not by any measure am I gross, damaged, or ruined.

Lavinder
07-10-09, 22:08
I really don't understand why people seem to thing that as soon as you fall pregnancy you have a cuddly bouncing baby in your womb.

It does not work like that.

Simochka
07-10-09, 22:08
'Scuse me, I know you don't mean offense, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I have had a child, and my body is in NO way ruined. In no way. Changed a little, maybe, but not by any measure am I gross, damaged, or ruined.

Yeah I dunno why I said that. Many women with children have amazing bodies. Like christina aguilera, Britney Spears and many more.
So ignore that part :p

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 22:09
Or if they have economical problems and bad income. Should a child need to grow up poor?


I grew up poor, that argument is extremely invalid.

Lara's home
07-10-09, 22:09
Yeah I dunno why I said that. Many women with children have amazing bodies. Like christina aguilera, Britney Spears and many more.
So ignore that part :p

Bad examples. Those girls just went to surgery after they gave birth. :p

Simochka
07-10-09, 22:10
I grew up poor, that argument is extremely invalid.

Yeah but I was thinking more like a 23 year old pregnant woman or something without education, job or anything. No income at all

But still. Would you plan to get a child if you had no job and no income?

violentblossom
07-10-09, 22:10
Bad examples. Those girls just went to surgery after they gave birth. :p

I don't know about all of that. I think that they busted their asses working out. You don't get toned from plastic surgery, but it's okay, were getting off point.

Lavinder
07-10-09, 22:13
Bad examples. Those girls just went to surgery after they gave birth. :p

Exactly, and have the option of expensive products.

Some women are lucky, whereas others are not. Some adult friends I know look like Freddy Krueger has had them!

Mad Tony
07-10-09, 22:16
Sounds like a good cause. I think it's disgusting that some people seem to think abortion is a good thing. How can the murder of an innocent baby ever be good? I respect the opinions of those who support it but do so because they think it's the lesser of evils but I have absolutely no respect for those who think it's actually a good thing.

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 22:21
Sounds like a good cause. I think it's disgusting that some people seem to think abortion is a good thing. How can the murder of an innocent baby ever be good? I respect the opinions of those who support it but do so because they think it's the lesser of evils but I have absolutely no respect for those who think it's actually a good thing.

thanks :) thats how i think

and also will people stop posting to be spiteful...

iv stated my opinion, abortion is debated but random comments... no

Carbonek_0051
07-10-09, 22:23
iv stated my opinion, abortion is debated but random comments... no

You do know this is a forum right?

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 22:24
You do know this is a forum right?

yes...

but spam is forbidden :ton:

Romantics Inc.
07-10-09, 22:25
That picture...ugh...My opinion is that it isnt "murder" or "homicide" because the baby hasnt really lived it's life yet...

If a pregnancy is a complete mistake or accident, then I do definately approve of abortion

But if you planned on getting pregnant, and back out at the last minute, you do not have my respect.

Lavinder
07-10-09, 22:26
thanks :) thats how i think

and also will people stop posting to be spiteful...

iv stated my opinion, abortion is debated but random comments... no

What spiteful comments?

xXhayleyroxXx
07-10-09, 22:27
That picture...ugh...My opinion is that it isnt "murder" or "homicide" because the baby hasnt really lived it's life yet...

If a pregnancy is a complete mistake or accident, then I do definately approve of abortion

But if you planned on getting pregnant, and back out at the last minute, you do not have my respect.

fair enough but then sex education should be enforced more - i only got one lesson of it. i dont actually know how to put on a condom - i guess youtube will have to assist there.

Kittypower
07-10-09, 22:32
Im quite pro choice so im not going to be silent.

JRod2208
07-10-09, 22:33
Warning to all, this is my personal belief. You don't have to read it if you don't want to, so y'all don't have to worry about me forcing anything on you. I'm pretty sure that my views upon the matter will upset most people that are "pro-choice." If there really is such a word.



I'm pro-life. Not pro-death. There is no "pro-choice." The baby has no say in anything. And don't try to tell me that the fetus wouldn't be able to choose anyway because I believe that's even worse. It never even got the chance to be able to choose. I think that the baby is a living human being, not just some unfortunate mishap that is easily fixed by a trip to the doctor. Let me ask you this. Do you enjoy living? I do. Why take that away from someone? What gives you the right? That you're the mother and it's your body? That's no excuse. You're killing an unborn child hence the "death" part in pro-death. There really is no way around that in my opinion.

"What if the woman was raped?" Okay, but are you really going to punish the child for something it couldn't help?

"But why force this on the mother?" 1). If you spread your legs for a man, live with the consequences. 2) If you were raped, I'm sorry, truly sorry. You were forced into a terrible thing, but aren't you being hypocritical? It all goes back to the child having no choice. You had no choice, and neither does the baby. Do you really want to take that away from it?

There is always adoption. There are many, many people that cannot have children of their own and are perfectly willing to adopt if the woman doesn't want her child. There really isn't a reason to abort, in my opinion. No, I can't even begin to guess what a pregnant woman must feel like when she doesn't want her child, but are you telling me that she would rather kill an unborn child, scientifically it is a fetus, but morally it is in all intents and purposes a child, a baby, a kid (in my opinion), than give birth?

What if she regrets what she did? There is no going back, it's dead. But if she puts it up for adoption, at least she knows it has a home where people will care for it and she'll also be helping a couple fufill their dream of having children.

My own mother was 17 when she got pregnant with me. She had to endure all the people whispering behind her back, all the looks, the pain of giving birth. By her senior year she was married. I'm pretty happy she "chose" life. I wouldn't even be here today if she had an abortion. She has never blamed me for anything and she and my father are still married. I know that this is pretty rare and that not everyone has a story book ending, but it makes me think. If my parents were able, against all odds, to get married, have a baby, graduate, have two more children, raise all three children successfully, and still stay happily married, then why can't the women in this same senario at least have the baby and give it up for adoption? I mean, I know that they all can't do what my parents did, and I don't expect them to, but abortion is common, why is it that my mother can go against all odds as one person when all these women can't "choose" life?

I don't think showing the picture is forcing anything on anybody. I heard about a law, I don't know if the federal government (U.S.) is trying to pass it, but I know it's at least trying to get passed in Texas, that before a woman goes through with an abortion, she is asked, asked not forced, to see an ultrasound of her womb. I really hope this gets passed. Most women, upon seeing it, "choose" not to have abortions. I think that this is keeping them informed. And it certainly makes sure that the woman is absolutely sure she wants this. (Even though the child has no say.)

Another thing, everyone so far, myself included, has referred to the pro-death movement as a "woman's choice." What about the man? Most of the time the boyfriend or whoever is around to help the girl/woman in "deciding" this. He is just as responsible for creating the living human being inside her as she is (obviously not directing this at rape victims). Don't they have an opinion? Why don't they speak up? Most of everyone that supports abortion believes that the woman gets the ultimate say because it's her body. I don't believe that. It takes two people to make a baby and two people need to "decide" in whether or not to abort. (Provided the guy is around to give an opinion.)

I don't think presenting your beliefs in a rational, logical way is forcing anyone to do anything. These movements don't force anything on anyone. If it changes someone's mind, so what? It's ultimately, and unfortunately the woman's "choice." Why are so many of you saying that hayley is forcing something on you? She showed you a picture. So what? You all believe what you believe, and as you have undoubtably shown, it hasn't changed anything. So, why are you worried about it? Are you afraid of something? Please keep in mind that the question isn't me trying to be a smart ass, I genuinely want to know.

Furthermore, I don't think this movement will be useless, sometimes it the smallest of gestures that can be the loudest.

Smile, your mom chose life.

Lavinder
07-10-09, 22:33
fair enough but then sex education should be enforced more - i only got one lesson of it. i dont actually know how to put on a condom - i guess youtube will have to assist there.

Piece of **** - pull it out the packet, hold the teat, roll it down.

Although I suggest you use the combined pill, as it prevents you from even ovulating - wallah, no baby.

Kittypower
07-10-09, 22:37
Piece of **** - pull it out the packet, hold the teat, roll it down.

You know, i didnt find out how to use a female condom untill i was 25. :p

Dennis's Mom
07-10-09, 22:38
I'm pro-choice myself, but would never want a woman to have an abortion if she didn't want to or because she felt it was her only choice.

Hayley, I find this "awareness" campaign to be rather a$$ backwards. Abortion is merely a symptom of a larger problem which is waaaay too much sex that shouldn't be happening. It's like trying to raise awareness for coughing rather than the flu.

You want to change the world, cure the problem. The symptoms will disappear. Speaking out against extramarital sex won't win you any popularity campaigns, but if you can make a few young girls respect their bodies more than their boyfriend, you will have struck a blow for the babies and young women everywhere. :tmb:

Lavinder
07-10-09, 22:38
You know, i didnt find out how to use a female condom untill i was 25. :p

:vlol: I'd rather never find out - plastic bag comes to mind when I think of those!

Romantics Inc.
07-10-09, 22:42
ew...the thought of female condems...just...

eugh...

Im sorry excuse me

Ward Dragon
07-10-09, 22:45
This thread is really off topic so I'll put it to rest.