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Solice
12-10-09, 23:18
He found a wonderful land...

He met strange and exotic peoples that welcomed him...

He then returned their kind gesture with murder, rape, torture and slavery.

Today we honor him.

Tombraiderx08
12-10-09, 23:21
I certainly dont honor him.

Thorir
12-10-09, 23:22
Vikings discovered America, silly! :)

violentblossom
12-10-09, 23:23
Vikings discovered America, silly! :)

Nuh uh. I did.

Nerd For Life
12-10-09, 23:24
Nuh uh. I did.

Let's honour you.

Tony9595
12-10-09, 23:24
Thanks for finding me VB :wve:
I wouldn't know where I am without you :(












↓ :vlol:

irjudd
12-10-09, 23:25
He found a wonderful land...

He met strange and exotic peoples that welcomed him...

He then returned their kind gesture with murder, rape, torture and slavery.

Today we honor him.

Pics or it didn't happen.

violentblossom
12-10-09, 23:25
Let's honour you.

Totally.

Anyone got some confetti and a cheeseburger?

Thanks for finding me VB :wve:
I wouldn't know where I am without you :(

You're welcome. :wve:

dizzydoil
12-10-09, 23:27
Pics or it didn't happen.
:vlol:.

Nerd For Life
12-10-09, 23:27
Totally.

Anyone got some confetti and a cheeseburger?

*throws confetti and noms cheeseburger*

JRod2208
12-10-09, 23:28
I think you'll find that many, many people in history aren't at all nice. Even groups of people. For instance, the American holiday of Thanksgiving. It was introduced by President Ulysess (sp? I really dislike that name, so hard to spell) S. Grant as a way for people to connect to the Indian culture because there were a lot of hateful feelings toward them during that time time period.

In reality, the Puritans, whom Thanksgiving is based upon, were these extremely selfish people that believed God only sent 10,000 people to heaven and to be said ten thousand people you had to good looking, smart, rich, have a religious experience. These people called themselves Elect and the Puritans would often kill and steal from their Indian neighbors, rather than sit and eat a meal with them. The Puritans celebrated Thanksgiving four times a year and only the Elect could participate while the Non-elect had to serve the food. When they prayed, the Non-Elect people had to cover their ears as they weren't worthy to hear it. I could go on and on about how the Puritans were really not all that good, but really, all you have to do is read up on the English Civil War and the English colonization to find out just how bad they were.

My point is that we celebrate many holidays in which the people whom the holidays are for weren't all that respectable. So, I really don't let any of that bother me and just take it as celebrating Columbus "discovering" America and helping make it what it is today and not look too much into it.

Solice
12-10-09, 23:44
You make some good points, JRod. There are a number of holidays that need to be reviewed. The Pilgrims where horrible people who where religious zealots. I think that is why the English kicked them out of Briton.

irjudd
12-10-09, 23:48
You make some good points, JRod. There are a number of holidays that need to be reviewed. The Pilgrims where horrible people who where religious zealots. I think that is why the English kicked them out of Briton.

In fact all major holidays are less than reputable if you cared to learn about them.

violentblossom
12-10-09, 23:51
In fact all major holidays are less than reputable if you cared to learn about them.

Wow, Juddly, you've just inspired me to do some research. :)

irjudd
12-10-09, 23:52
Wow, Juddly, you've just inspired me to do some research. :)Try to make it more than Wikipedia. :pi:

ThatNorskChick
12-10-09, 23:54
Vikings discovered America, silly! :)

*high five*

TRhalloween
12-10-09, 23:58
In fact all major holidays are less than reputable if you cared to learn about them.

I guess so but I like dressing like the yellow m&m and getting lots of presents every year.

Catracoth
13-10-09, 00:03
Today we honor him.

Ha! Who's 'we'? I certainly do not honour him. I just honour the fact that we get a day off out of it. Thank heavens.

snork
13-10-09, 00:09
How is it in the USofA ? Are all holidays federal holidays, or are there special holidays in some states ?

Columbus is not celebrated over here (Germany).

irjudd
13-10-09, 00:10
Columbus is not celebrated over here (Germany).

I didn't realize it was Columbus day until I noticed my bank was closed, and after some "wtf"ing someone told me. Some stuff being closed for the day is about the only celebration that happens, but a lot of businesses ignore it.

Tommy123
13-10-09, 00:53
I dont honor him. Theres a special place in hell for him:)

Mad Tony
13-10-09, 00:56
What's with all the Columbus hating?

Rai
13-10-09, 00:59
^ I was just about to ask.

But Mad Tony, I'm surprised you are asking as you're so knowledgeable :).

TRhalloween
13-10-09, 01:00
What's with all the Columbus hating?

^ I was just about to ask.

But Mad Tony, I'm surprised you are asking as you're so knowledgeable :).

It's kind of justified by the responses in the thread.

Mad Tony
13-10-09, 01:00
^ I was just about to ask.

But Mad Tony, I'm surprised you are asking as you're so knowledgeable :).Thank you. :p

Meh, history pre-1900 doesn't really interest me that much.

larafan25
13-10-09, 01:08
did he really rape all those people:O

I always thought he was good????

Zebra
13-10-09, 01:12
I wonder what would've happened had Columbus not discovered America...interesting thought. But then again, there are so many what-if-situations in history. What if Cleopatra and Mark Anthony had won the battle of Actium? What if the Americans had lost the American Revolutionary War? What if Hitler had won WW2?

Thank you. :p

Meh, history pre-1900 doesn't really interest me that much.

Vice versa for me :p.

Rai
13-10-09, 01:12
It's kind of justified by the responses in the thread.

Well I know a little about Columbus, but in school I only learned the basics about his 'discovery', I'm not that clued up on American history, sorry :o.

*gets out history books*

larafan25
13-10-09, 01:16
Well I know a little about Columbus, but in school I only learned the basics about his 'discovery', I'm not that clued up on American history, sorry :o.

*gets out history books*

what they teach you in school is wrong.






















Lara Croft found America:D

Zebra
13-10-09, 01:21
Well I know a little about Columbus, but in school I only learned the basics about his 'discovery', I'm not that clued up on American history, sorry :o.

*gets out history books*

Columbus' discovery of America lead to thousands and thousands of native Americans being killed and enslaved by the conquistadores.

Solice
13-10-09, 01:26
Ha! Who's 'we'? I certainly do not honour him. I just honour the fact that we get a day off out of it. Thank heavens.


The postman honors him. My Netflix return didn't get picked up today:hea:

matrix54
13-10-09, 01:44
they use the term discovered very loosely. they mean "discovered new land" as in he found that there was land outside of the flat piece of papers those idiots called earth, not that he actually found it, seeing as native americans (who he killed) were already there. :p we celebrate it because, really, without columbus, the america we all know and used to love (really) would not be here. Now we all just ignore it. it's just on the calander.

this holiday really is worse than Labor Day, where in fact, most everyone has the day off :p And Martin Luther King day. he did a lot, but Rosa Parks and Malcolm X ain't get no Holiday :ohn:

this thread just got me started. I'm gonna just cut the rant short.

~ end rant

Draco
13-10-09, 03:36
Vikings didn't discover America either.

maniakatosheto
13-10-09, 03:57
Quit arguing! Lara discovered America :)

JRod2208
13-10-09, 03:57
I wonder what would've happened had Columbus not discovered America...interesting thought. But then again, there are so many what-if-situations in history. What if Cleopatra and Mark Anthony had won the battle of Actium? What if the Americans had lost the American Civil War? What if Hitler had won WW2?



Vice versa for me :p.

Do you by any chance mean the North? Because either way Americans would have won the American Civil War. Lol, no offense, I just couldn't resist. :P

Yeah, alot of the stuff they teach you in school is wrong. My teachers taught me that Columbus tryed to sail around the world to prove it was round, when in fact that had already been proven about a thousand years before and was common knowledge. Geez, he had a globe with him for crying out loud. A globe that wasn't to scale, yes, but a globe nonetheless.

aktrekker
13-10-09, 04:06
Columbus was trying to find a shorter route to the Indies. They traded for spices, but having to sail all the way around Africa took too long and was a dangerous journey. He thought he had found the Indies, that is why he called the natives Indians.
Columbus didn't mistreat them, he wanted to trade. It was later expeditions by other explorers who started killing natives. They were there for colonization.

Have they rewritten history that much?

Tony9595
13-10-09, 04:12
did he really rape all those people:O


I don't think he had time for raping every single one of them :p

spikejones
13-10-09, 04:31
This thread smells like yet another anti-American troll to me. if not in that regard, still a troll nonetheless.

Have they rewritten history that much?

tbh.. its the first I've heard that. but then again, I paid very little to history in school. it didnt interest me much, and I'm not going to be a history professor or anything like that. at any rate, I think people like to make absurd connections with things that are totally unrelated. next thing you know, Columbus will be to blame for African slaves as well. afterall - "had he not 'found' America, it likely would not have been settled, and hence - Africans would not have become slaves" (yeah right.. if not him, someone else)

laralives
13-10-09, 04:39
Columbus' discovery of America lead to thousands and thousands of native Americans being killed and enslaved by the conquistadores.

Which is why it should be named, "Columbus Exploits Indigenous People Day." :)

lacryjr
13-10-09, 05:07
Wasn't Columbus who thought he found India when he found America ? or am I wrong ?

GameGlitcher77
13-10-09, 05:23
He found a wonderful land...

He met strange and exotic peoples that welcomed him...

He then returned their kind gesture with murder, rape, torture and slavery.

Today we honor him.

And Italians aren't that much better by today's standards, well minus the murder, torture, and slavery part:whi:

scoopy_loopy
13-10-09, 06:37
Oh who really cares. All settlers pretty much screwed over the natives. Lets move on people!


Its a holiday! :D

(Well, not here its not. But whatever)

SpaceChild
13-10-09, 07:54
He found a wonderful land...

He met strange and exotic peoples that welcomed him...

He then returned their kind gesture with murder, rape, torture and slavery.

Today we honor him.

Everything you've been spoon-fed by your countercultural "teachers" is, to be charitable, wrong.

If you care enough about Columbus' place in history to have started this hit-piece thread, then I would expect that you care enough to study a rational analysis of Columbus' achievement - as opposed to hit-and-run illogic. Or not. Do you have fifteen minutes to spare on some alternative (read: uncorrupted) education?

Pepperdine University economist George Reisman wrote an article in 1992 titled "Education and the Racist Road to Barbarism (http://www.capitalism.net/Education%20and%20Racism.htm)" that should be considered required reading on the real meaning behind Columbus and the "discovery" of North America - also on the universal value of Western Civilization and the gutter racism at the core of that thing called "multiculturacism." Read it. If you can spare fifteen minutes.

I honor, respect, and am deeply grateful to Columbus - for having had the courage to defy the accepted "wisdom" of what was to him the whole of the known world and sail into an uncharted ocean; for having brought that body of ideas we call Western Civilization to this hemisphere. It was precisely those ideas, derived from Greco-Roman philosophy, which would ultimately lead to the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and what we currently refer to as the free world - to the freedom that I and you and everybody else within that free world enjoys. You - and I - owe your very life to that body of ideas.

I do not fault Columbus for failing some arbitrary, mythical standard of godlike superhuman perfection, in the same way I do not fault the immigrants (from Asia, via the Bering land bridge) whom Columbus met when he landed, for their culture(s) of murder, rape, torture and slavery... And human sacrifices, and perpetual inter-tribal warfare, etc. 'Got Apocalypto?

Bottom line: The Middle Ages were a rotten time to be alive for most human beings. The one thing that dragged humanity out of the stagnant muck that was the Dark Ages was...the body of ideas we call Western Civilization. Which Columbus brought to the New World.

patriots88888
13-10-09, 09:02
I wonder what would've happened had Columbus not discovered America...interesting thought. But then again, there are so many what-if-situations in history. What if Cleopatra and Mark Anthony had won the battle of Actium? What if the Americans had lost the American Civil War? What if Hitler had won WW2?

Um, the Union (North) and the Confederacy (South) were both American. ;) In a nutshell, they each differed in their ideals of what America should be which ultimately led to the secession of the Confederate South.

Columbus Day is just an excuse for kids to get yet another day off from school. I should know, I am, er... was one.

LightningRider
13-10-09, 12:39
I don't see the point in honoring a man, who said he discovered America... I mean did he actually?

Wouldn't discovering something mean finding out something that nobody has found before? So what, the Native Americans didn't find the land they were standing on or something? :rolleyes:

Course, I'm not in America... ;)

Dennis's Mom
13-10-09, 13:06
I admire the spirit and courage it took to sail into the unknown. The mere fact he thought he had reached Asia shows how unknown the ocean he was sailing was.

The rest . . . if you look at history long enough, no one's hands are clean. Everyone exploited or hurt someone else for their own personal "group". Even today, we're all barbarians. The veneer of civilization is very thin.

Azerutan
13-10-09, 16:20
I honor, respect, and am deeply grateful to Columbus - for having had the courage to defy the accepted "wisdom" of what was to him the whole of the known world and sail into an uncharted ocean; for having brought that body of ideas we call Western Civilization to this hemisphere. It was precisely those ideas, derived from Greco-Roman philosophy, which would ultimately lead to the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and what we currently refer to as the free world - to the freedom that I and you and everybody else within that free world enjoys. You - and I - owe your very life to that body of ideas.

Colombus was not the first and certainly not the only one to sail into an "uncharted" ocean... Good post though.

Zebra
13-10-09, 16:50
Um, the Union (North) and the Confederacy (South) were both American. ;) In a nutshell, they each differed in their ideals of what America should be which ultimately led to the secession of the Confederate South.

Columbus Day is just an excuse for kids to get yet another day off from school. I should know, I am, er... was one.

Haha...sorry. I think I mixed up the English names for American Civil War and American Revolutionary War :o.

Reggie
13-10-09, 16:57
I admire the spirit and courage it took to sail into the unknown. The mere fact he thought he had reached Asia shows how unknown the ocean he was sailing was.

The rest . . . if you look at history long enough, no one's hands are clean. Everyone exploited or hurt someone else for their own personal "group". Even today, we're all barbarians. The veneer of civilization is very thin.
Pretty much what I think plus parts of what Spacechild was saying rang true to how I feel on the issue. What I don't agree with is people pointing finger of blame at Columbus for all the woes of Colonialism that followed his discoveries.

snork
13-10-09, 16:59
I think I mixed up the English names for American Civil War and American Revolutionary War
^^ So i thought. Because it happens to me too.

In German it is "American Independence War" and when I don't see the word Independence I tend to think of the "North/South War" :cln:

Zebra
13-10-09, 17:09
Pretty much what I think plus parts of what Spacechild was saying rang true to how I feel on the issue. What I don't agree with is people pointing finger of blame at Columbus for all the woes of Colonialism that followed his discoveries.

I don't blame Columbus for anything. But I do think it's wrong to celebrate an event that caused the murder of whole peoples

Death Mask
13-10-09, 17:19
Everything you've been spoon-fed by your countercultural "teachers" is, to be charitable, wrong.

If you care enough about Columbus' place in history to have started this hit-piece thread, then I would expect that you care enough to study a rational analysis of Columbus' achievement - as opposed to hit-and-run illogic. Or not. Do you have fifteen minutes to spare on some alternative (read: uncorrupted) education?

Pepperdine University economist George Reisman wrote an article in 1992 titled "Education and the Racist Road to Barbarism (http://www.capitalism.net/Education%20and%20Racism.htm)" that should be considered required reading on the real meaning behind Columbus and the "discovery" of North America - also on the universal value of Western Civilization and the gutter racism at the core of that thing called "multiculturacism." Read it. If you can spare fifteen minutes.

I honor, respect, and am deeply grateful to Columbus - for having had the courage to defy the accepted "wisdom" of what was to him the whole of the known world and sail into an uncharted ocean; for having brought that body of ideas we call Western Civilization to this hemisphere. It was precisely those ideas, derived from Greco-Roman philosophy, which would ultimately lead to the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and what we currently refer to as the free world - to the freedom that I and you and everybody else within that free world enjoys. You - and I - owe your very life to that body of ideas.

I do not fault Columbus for failing some arbitrary, mythical standard of godlike superhuman perfection, in the same way I do not fault the immigrants (from Asia, via the Bering land bridge) whom Columbus met when he landed, for their culture(s) of murder, rape, torture and slavery... And human sacrifices, and perpetual inter-tribal warfare, etc. 'Got Apocalypto?

Bottom line: The Middle Ages were a rotten time to be alive for most human beings. The one thing that dragged humanity out of the stagnant muck that was the Dark Ages was...the body of ideas we call Western Civilization. Which Columbus brought to the New World.

Very well said, I'm very proud of Columbus myself, but to be honest I feel deeply saddened that the great Western Civilization that was built by so many great European men and women is quickly getting teared apart and being replaced with forced multiculturalism, communism, marxism, and globalism, our freedoms are being taken away one by one, just look at the USA, I bet the Founding Fathers are turning in their graves in disgust, because the America they built and the America of today are two completely different countries, and Europe is going down the same road very fast. :(

Reggie
13-10-09, 17:22
I don't blame Columbus for anything. But I do think it's wrong to celebrate an event that caused the murder of whole peoples
Re-read this part of my post:

What I don't agree with is people pointing finger of blame at Columbus for all the woes of Colonialism.
Therefore, I'm not going to agree with you because you're pointing all the blame at him for a murder which he did not carry out himself. We didn't have to take up darwinism and apply it to race but we did and Christopher Columbus' (as we can see now) unjust view of the world happened to coincide with the prevailing mood of the times. Its a shameful part of our past but why must we scapegoat Columbus for that? why must that diminish the significance of his discoveries as outlined by Spacechild. I see no reason to agree with your flawed conclusion.

Zebra
13-10-09, 17:26
Re-read this part of my post:


Therefore, I'm not going to agree with you because you're pointing all the blame at him for a murder which he did not carry out himself. We didn't have to take up darwinism and apply it to race but we did and Christopher Columbus' (as we can see now) unjust view of the world happened to coincide with the prevailing mood of the times. Its a shameful part of our past but why must we scapegoat Columbus for that? why must that diminish the significance of his discoveries as outlined by Spacechild. I see no reason to agree with your flawed conclusion.

You don't understand me. I don't blame anything on Columbus. I blame it on the event of the Europeans discovering America. That's a big difference.

Reggie
13-10-09, 17:30
You don't understand me. I don't blame anything on Columbus. I blame it on the event of the Europeans discovering America. That's a big difference.
That's fair enough then. :tmb: My contention before was that it seemed you were loading all responsibility for the event and how it unfolded and what it led to onto just one individual which isn't the case when there were other factors present - sorry if that seems pedantic but I like to weigh up both sides. :)

Zebra
13-10-09, 17:31
That's fair enough then. :tmb: My contention before was that it seemed you were loading all responsibility for the event and how it unfolded and what it led to onto just one individual which isn't the case when there were other factors present - sorry if that seems pedantic but I like to weigh up both sides. :)

No prob :). I mean...we do have a little history with misunderstanding each other :p.

LaraLuvrrr
13-10-09, 19:01
Who cares bout Columbus. Just cuz he discovered whatever he did doesnt mean it didnt exist before he did it

patriots88888
13-10-09, 19:08
Who cares bout Columbus. Just cuz he discovered whatever he did doesnt mean it didnt exist before he did it

I think some people here might be missing the point of discovery. Discovery is simply observing something which has not yet been seen, heard, or realized... to the one who is making the discovery! ;) Because something existed prior is not only irrelevant, but also illogical. You can't discover what doesn't exist. :p

LaraLuvrrr
13-10-09, 19:11
I think some people here might be missing the point of discovery. Discovery is simply observing something which has not yet been seen, heard, or realized... to the one who is making the discovery! ;) Because something existed prior is not only irrelevant, but also illogical. You can't discover what doesn't exist. :p

I know that. I'm saying who cares what he discovered. My interests are not with colonial Spain.

Mad Tony
13-10-09, 19:27
I know that. I'm saying who cares what he discovered. My interests are not with colonial Spain.Wait, do you even know what Columbus discovered?

miss.haggard
13-10-09, 20:36
**** happens, we cant go back and change it. No point in saying he was a bad man. No one knows for sure, he got judged just as we will all get judged one day. Just be glad you get a semi-holiday out of it, I know I am. :)

Encore
13-10-09, 21:04
the body of ideas we call Western Civilization. Which Columbus brought to the New World.

Columbus was certainly an individual ahead of his time in some ways but the culture he lived in (with the peak of the Holy Inquisition etc.) was very far from what we now consider the "civilized" european culture that was born mostly from the Enlightment. I certainly don't see what the Spanish "took" to the New World that's so great except if you consider Christianity a great thing.

violentblossom
13-10-09, 21:12
I certainly don't see what the Spanish "took" to the New World that's so great except if you consider Christianity a great thing.

Horses, I thought, were introduced then.

NemesisxAngelus
13-10-09, 21:45
Pics or it didn't happen.
:vlol:

Horses, I thought, were introduced then.

Yes. But didn't some civilizations take it as the Gods were returning to them?

I certainly don't see what the Spanish "took" to the New World that's so great except if you consider Christianity a great thing.

I thought I was the only one in the "Old World" who thought the conquest of The Americas wasn't fair. But then again I wonder if we never knew The Americas existed if these civilizations would still be here as of today.

LaraLuvrrr
13-10-09, 21:51
Wait, do you even know what Columbus discovered?

Antartica no?.... I thought it was the island of antartica

Encore
13-10-09, 23:10
Horses, I thought, were introduced then.

I wasn't talking about technological achievements, but rather this "body of ideas called Western Civilization" that SpaceChild mentioned. In this area I don't see the greatness of the western culture of the time.

Mad Tony
13-10-09, 23:39
Antartica no?.... I thought it was the island of antarticaNo lol, it was America.

LaraLuvrrr
14-10-09, 19:58
No lol, it was America.

I know I was jk :p

SpaceChild
16-10-09, 02:23
Colombus was not the first and certainly not the only one to sail into an "uncharted" ocean... Good post though.

I didn't say he was the first to sail into an uncharted ocean (and why the quotes?) He was the first to challenge, in a historically-significant way, the entire concept of the flat Earth; he was the first to demonstrate - again, in a historically significant way - that that entire geophysical conception was ...flat wrong.

Columbus was certainly an individual ahead of his time in some ways but the culture he lived in (with the peak of the Holy Inquisition etc.) was very far from what we now consider the "civilized" european culture that was born mostly from the Enlightment. I certainly don't see what the Spanish "took" to the New World that's so great except if you consider Christianity a great thing.

Encore, I'm just guessing here, but I don't think you read Reisman's article (http://www.capitalism.net/Education%20and%20Racism.htm). Western Civilization was born in Ancient Greece, not Medieval Europe. The Medieval period was precisely the time when Western Civ. was buried under layers of Platonic/religious muck. It took innovators like Thomas Aquinas and John Locke to rediscover the nearly-forgotten philosophy of Aristotle and to reintroduce it into that squalid intellectual climate. That reintroduction made possible the triumph of Aristotle's philosophy over its polar opposite (Platonism,) through the Renaissance/Enlightenment period.

The core of Aristotelianism remained (albeit buried) within the corpus of knowledge that existed through the Middle Ages, including the knowledge brought to the Western Hemisphere by Columbus.

We've since come full-circle, unfortunately. The world's academic institutions are drowning in Plato's poison and Aristotle is, once again, nearly forgotten.

As evidenced in this bizarre Columbus-hate cult we've been hearing so much about.

Another bit of essential reading: "Let's Take Back Columbus Day (http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=24369&news_iv_ctrl=1021)" by Thomas Bowden.

silver_wolf
16-10-09, 03:07
Vikings discovered America, silly! :)
Actually it was the Celts.
No,wait, the Egyptians.
I mean the Aborigines!
Martians?
Seriously, though, can anyone really say who discovered America first? I don't think we've actually discovered anything in a looooooooooooooong time, just re-discovered.