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Legend 4ever
19-10-09, 07:00
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly and people think most of them are lame, but I've always wanted a couple and I always wanted a custom one, not just choosing from the catalog.

Since I consider tattoos ruin the body's beauty to some extent I really want them small and in places that are not that exposed.

For that reason, since moment I realized I wanted one, the front part of my abdomen (chest and stomach) were out, so were the arms (tacky and everyone has a tattoo there).

I really like neck and the head behind the ear for a tattoo(I wanted a Japanese kanji for life, water or house there), leg ankle is OK too, I like a small one on ribcage, which should say "Better anorexic than fat"(It's stupid I know, it's supposed to be just for fun, not that it's really true) and what I've always wanted and considered the most beautiful place for a tattoo to be lower back aka. tramp stamp. I really wanted an Edgar Allan Poe quote there. Now I'm so sad that so many people thing it's a tacky place for a tattoo because it is the best one IMO.

Here's why: I have no hair on my lower back, my muscles there are tight so the tattoo would look well, I will never be fat on that part (I might have fat on my front stomach and love handles) and it just looks so pretty.

But, I've recently found out that apparently if you are a guy, having a tattoo on your lower back is unheard of and considered very gay. It is not that I have a problem with it or that it would make me reconsider really, but I'm wondering why is this?

Why is only "manly" to have an ugly tribal on your upper back or a scorpion on your bicep? That is ridiculous!

Share opinions if you will, even if it's on tattoos only, not necessarily on my problem.

Dennis's Mom
19-10-09, 11:51
The problem with tattoos is that they are forever.

What's "gay" this year could be manly next year or vice versa.

You need to be completely comfortable with what you want forever, because you have no business getting a tattoo if you are that concerned with what it says to anyone but you today, tomorrow or twenty years from now.

snork
19-10-09, 12:33
Since I consider tattoos ruin the body's beauty to some extent
But if you yourself think so, why then go for a tattoo ?

tramp stamp. :D I won't tell some German language names for that, not suitable here. :p

I really wanted an Edgar Allan Poe quote there.
interesting. What quote ?

scoopy_loopy
19-10-09, 13:10
Christ! What is it with people bolding random **** that they type?!

Legend 4ever
19-10-09, 13:13
The problem with tattoos is that they are forever.

What's "gay" this year could be manly next year or vice versa.

You need to be completely comfortable with what you want forever, because you have no business getting a tattoo if you are that concerned with what it says to anyone but you today, tomorrow or twenty years from now.
Oh, I think you didn't understand me right. Gay as in homosexual, not gay as in "bad". I never use the word in that meaning, it's ridiculous.

I am definitely comfortable and sure of what I want to do, I just don't want to have people asking me if I'm gay because I have a tattoo on my lower back since I don't understand why can't a guy have it there.

But if you yourself think so, why then go for a tattoo ?

:D I won't tell some German language names for that, not suitable here. :p


interesting. What quote ?
Like I said, because it destroys the body I don't want one which is stamped all over me, but a small, more private.

I'm not sure which quote yet, I really love Poe, he's one of my favorite writers.

I don't know why people make such big of a deal, it's such a nice place for a tattoo, it's flat and it could be good canvas. O.o

Christ! What is it with people bolding random **** that they type?!

If you stopped to think for a minute you would see the meaning in every word I put in bold. In the first paragraphs the bold words outline my wishes for tattoos and where I'd like them and since the last three one contain most of the problem in question and the main questions of the thread, the whole paragraphs are in bold.

Encore
19-10-09, 13:26
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly and people think most of them are lame

I stopped reading right there.

violentblossom
19-10-09, 13:28
I don't really see a problem with men getting a lower back tattoo, it just would depend on what it is and how it is done, I suppose.

The thing I hate about tattoos and their popularity is that just about everyone's got one these days, and so that factor of, "Damn, you went through that? Very intense" is gone, because every teen girl runs off and gets a butterfly somewhere once she hits the right age. Tattoos are losing their meaning, it seems. People will just get them to get them, with no thought about what their tattoo could represent, they just know that they like it.

I find tattoos to be beautiful when they are well done, creative, and not overwhelming to look at. I mean, I know that I've got a tramp stamp, but its a pretty one. It definately isn't some tacky Playboy bunny or something that says "Princess <3".

I think that two of the trashiest spots for tattoos are on the neck and on the breast.

remote91
19-10-09, 13:30
Erm..

Don't.

miss.haggard
19-10-09, 13:32
The only tattoo I could justify would be something for my parents, something very small. And there are far many other things I can do to remember them than get a tattoo.

In my mind I place tattoos in the same category as gauged ears. Its just not something you want to do if you expect to get somewhere and be respected in the working world.

TRhalloween
19-10-09, 13:32
Go ahead. It's not like it's a belly button piercing.

violentblossom
19-10-09, 13:34
Its just not something you want to do if you expect to get somewhere and be respected in the working world.

If your tattoos are small enough and in certain spots that they can be hidden, then I don't see a problem.

miss.haggard
19-10-09, 13:34
If your tattoos are small enough and in certain spots that they can be hidden, then I don't see a problem.

True, but I still dont see the point in the majority of them. Dont take me the wrong way, I dont look down on people with them, whatever you wana do, do it. Its your life. I could never convince myself to get one.

Encore
19-10-09, 13:35
Why should tattoos be such a big deal for everyone, who the **** cares if it's an epic work of art or a stupid butterfly? I guarantee you that in a sufficient amount of years your most prized body that you feel so shocked about "tainting" will be rotting underground until it turns into dust, so why must it be such a big deal???

I hear all the time people saying silly tattoos are superficial. Well to me it is also superficial to consider it shocking to draw on your body and to consider that the body must be clean looking to make you respectable.

Dennis's Mom
19-10-09, 13:36
Oh, I think you didn't understand me right. Gay as in homosexual, not gay as in "bad". I never use the word in that meaning, it's ridiculous.

No, I understood you perfectly. My point was that your tattoos will long outlive current interpretations. After all, it wasn't so long ago it was considered rude to keep a hat on indoors. The rules of fashion change, but tattoos are eternal.

violentblossom
19-10-09, 13:40
Why should tattoos be such a big deal for everyone, who the **** cares if it's an epic work of art or a stupid butterfly? I guarantee you that in a sufficient amount of years your most prized body that you feel so shocked about "tainting" will be rotting underground until it turns into dust, so why must it be such a big deal???


Because its pretty stupid to be all, "Ohhh, look at my pretty butterfly!" then ***** about how you have no idea why you got it, and ZOMG, you've to remove this. I've seen it happen a million times. No one stops to realise that it really is "forever".

I feel like tattoos should be a representation of who you are and aspects of your personality, because otherwise, you're going to regret it eventually.

I hate, too, when people get something done just because its trendy.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
19-10-09, 13:42
No, I understood you perfectly. My point was that your tattoos will long outlive current interpretations. After all, it wasn't so long ago it was considered rude to keep a hat on indoors. The rules of fashion change, but tattoos are eternal.

Can't you get them removed with a laser procedure? I know it's inconvenient, but "eternal" may be a tad dramatic.

TRhalloween
19-10-09, 13:42
Why should tattoos be such a big deal for everyone, who the **** cares if it's an epic work of art or a stupid butterfly? I guarantee you that in a sufficient amount of years your most prized body that you feel so shocked about "tainting" will be rotting underground until it turns into dust, so why must it be such a big deal???

I hear all the time people saying silly tattoos are superficial. Well to me it is also superficial to consider it shocking to draw on your body and to consider that the body must be clean looking to make you respectable.

Agreed. Do whatever you want. I do whatever I want with my sexy-ass body.

(Though if you get a tattoo on your crotch saying "Marlboro - Come to where the flavour is", please don't post it on TRF)

Dennis's Mom
19-10-09, 14:38
Can't you get them removed with a laser procedure? I know it's inconvenient, but "eternal" may be a tad dramatic.

True, but it's a costly and time consuming process. To enter into a tatoo with the "I'll just suffer the pain and cost of removal if I change my mind" is akin to "I'll just get a divorce if I change my mind." Some things should not be treated lightly.

Indeed, the reason I don't have a tattoo is that I cannot think of anything I really want to say permanently. Even something like "love" or "peace" would be so generic as to be pointless.

Lara Croft!
19-10-09, 14:48
Ιf you have a tattoo, it will be for a life. That's the reason I would never get one, except the names of my children that I will have in the distant future. I'm too young, now!:D

So you have to think carefully about the place on your body, it's design and size. You should think stuff like:
-Is the tattoo going to be to a place that may cause controversy in a future job? Most bosses are alright with it, but it always depends on the kind of job.
-Do I see myself 40-50-60-80 years old and still liking this tattoo and what it represents?

Don't decide based on what people think is gay/fashionable/trendy/manly. If you are a straight guy, even with a pink butterfly on your arm, you will still be one and vice versa.
Trust only your taste, because it's something that you will carry on your body.

Chocola teapot
19-10-09, 15:54
I never want a tatoo. :p

adventurerLara
19-10-09, 15:56
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly and people think most of them are lame...

Really?

I think tattoos are (within reason) beautiful and very attractive.

xx_Hunt_xx
19-10-09, 17:29
Here's why: I have no hair on my lower back, my muscles there are tight so the tattoo would look well, I will never be fat on that part (I might have fat on my front stomach and love handles) and it just looks so pretty.
[/B]

And how do you know that? No one has the body they had when they where younger.

Also why does it bother you so much if it is considered gay?
If you want it, get it.
This makes as much sense to me as when you where a kid people said if you pick up a dandelion you would wet the bed.

Draco
19-10-09, 17:38
If I ever get a tat, it will be on my face.

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-09, 17:44
I wouldn't recommend a tramp stamp for a guy, but that's just my opinion. It's just a bit too feminine for my taste, being as I'm into manly men. :cln:

I really don't like tattoos that much, tbh. I know that sounds odd since I've seriously been considering getting on myself, but I'm referring to what I like on a guy. Maybe somewhere on the arms, if they're muscular, but even then, I think it looks better without.

Just go with what you like best, it really doesn't matter what other people think. :)

Edit: Regarding the tramp stamp looking gay, I'll be brutally honest, if I ever saw one on a guy I would think he was gay. Not that there's anything wrong with it, and I know it's best not to stereotype like that, but I've never known a straight guy to have one, so it's just an initial thought. But then again, it depends what the tattoo looked like as well.

irjudd
19-10-09, 17:49
...
[B]But, I've recently found out that apparently if you are a guy, having a tattoo on your lower back is unheard of and considered very gay. It is not that I have a problem with it or that it would make me reconsider really, but I'm wondering why is this? ...

Are you worried about looking effeminate?

My understanding is that a tramp stamp on a lady is said by some to be there for something to look at while you're back there, so obviously that'd mean you like having someone back there to see it. It's not difficult to understand the relationship to it being a gay tattoo for a man to have.

jackles
19-10-09, 17:57
I really think if you are worried about how others view tattoos, then you shouldn't get one. I have several...they don't make me 'unprofessional' and unless I choose to show them, you wouldn't know they were there. In fact I often forget over the winter that they exist! No one gets to see the ones on my body and when I am old and wrinkly I still shan't give a toss about having them there. I don't see why inking my body should be any reason to judge me anymore than if I was of a certain race/sexuality/religion. There are way more important things to worry about.


Sooooooooo if you are concerned about such things then don't do it. If you want something on your back, between the shoulder blades or on your shoulder can be nicer on a man.

Encore
19-10-09, 18:03
^ I completely agree with you. I would never recommend doing a tattoo to someone who seems to have so many pre conceived ideas about it. Tattoos are a love it or hate it thing.

Dina_Croft
19-10-09, 18:04
You should do one on your wrist!:tmb:I don't know but i like it...

In a few years I might do one...I always liked the 30stm symbols and I did the symbol "Mars" on my leg but it was henna..just for the summer...

But yeah i totally recommend it:tmb:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/99shadesofgrey/30%20Seconds%20To%20Mars/ShannonLetosTattoo1.jpg

Ooohh manly:cln:

Encore
19-10-09, 18:09
^ I have that tattoo. :p Only mine is simpler.

http://shadowzone.com.sapo.pt/self/2ndtattoo.jpg

Dina_Croft
19-10-09, 18:33
I have that tattoo. :p Only mine is simpler.

http://shadowzone.com.sapo.pt/self/2ndtattoo.jpg

O-M-G :eek::eek:

I'm sooo jealous:pi:

Kelly Craftman
19-10-09, 18:39
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly
Since I consider tattoos ruin the body's beauty to some extent I really want them small and in places that are not that exposed.

Why is only "manly" to have an ugly tribal on your upper back or a scorpion on your bicep? That is ridiculous!

Share opinions if you will, even if it's on tattoos only, not necessarily on my problem.[/B]

I actually find some tattoos attractive, like the Tribal tattoos on the top of the back :pi:
i would say it ruins the body's beauty, well it does sometimes, it depends how well the tattoo comes out.

i would love to have a tribal tattoo on the bottom of my back :D we must go together :p

Melonie Tomb Raider
19-10-09, 18:39
^ I have that tattoo. :p Only mine is simpler.

http://shadowzone.com.sapo.pt/self/2ndtattoo.jpg

Love it! :D

violentblossom
19-10-09, 18:40
Call me crazy, but I cannot stand typical tribal tattoos.

They're very rarely ever well done, and I just find most of them ugly.

Carbonek_0051
19-10-09, 18:42
Call me crazy, but I cannot stand typical tribal tattoos.

They're very rarely ever well done, and I just find most of them ugly.

That's pretty much what I think as well.

violentblossom
19-10-09, 18:44
That's pretty much what I think as well.

Yep, and you know what? They have to be redone more often than most tattoos because of the (usually) solid black. The black is also rarely ever even.

Joely-Moley
19-10-09, 18:45
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly and people think most of them are lame, but I've always wanted a couple and I always wanted a custom one, not just choosing from the catalog.


Really? I thought tattoos are pretty much considered normal these days. *shrugs*

By the sounds it, I don't think you should get one to be honest if you are not sure. I think you should always be 100% before getting a one.

I love tattoos and I love all mine, I've never had an issue with a job they can all pretty much be covered up if need be.
I don't care either about what people think of mine, it's my body after all.

Plus on the point of worrying about looking silly when I'm old, well, I've always thought I'm going to hate getting old and wrinkly as it is, so a few wrinkly tattoos aren't going to bother me much. :p

I remember someone said to me "Isn't that going to look pretty stupid when you're 60?" I remember saying, "You know, I might not live until I'm 60. I'm not going to live my life worrying about the fact that I might regret something 40 years down the line."

Spong
19-10-09, 18:48
^ I have that tattoo. :p Only mine is simpler.

http://shadowzone.com.sapo.pt/self/2ndtattoo.jpg

Ouch! That looks like a skin inflammation :eek:

Dark Lugia 2
19-10-09, 18:54
Love your tattoo Encore!!

I dont think tattoos have to have a meaning :/ people can have tattoos if they want, and its they choose a design that they like.

I dont get the whole "you went through that?" being so important either. :p anyone whos had a tattoo will have been through the same pain, you shouldnt be upset because other people want to have tattoos and it makes you feel like part of a trend (which tattoos have always been anyway)

violentblossom
19-10-09, 18:55
(which tattoos have always been anyway)

Actually, they were a taboo for quite a while.

xXhayleyroxXx
19-10-09, 19:12
I say go for it, do what you want to do!
I would love a tatoo of a dragon down my back but i have the biggest phobia of needles - so i epically fail :ton:

Encore
19-10-09, 19:19
Love your tattoo Encore!!

I dont think tattoos have to have a meaning :/ people can have tattoos if they want, and its they choose a design that they like.

I dont get the whole "you went through that?" being so important either. :p anyone whos had a tattoo will have been through the same pain, you shouldnt be upset because other people want to have tattoos and it makes you feel like part of a trend (which tattoos have always been anyway)

Yeah, your post is pretty much what I meant when I asked why do tattoos have to be such a big deal.

I mean there's people here posting how they hate certain tattoos. Good, don't get one, but do we need to keep judging those who DO like them? It's just their taste.

Thorir
19-10-09, 19:33
I have never heard of tattoos on the lower back as being anything particulary gay. Getting your right ear pierced was concidered a fool-proof sign of being gay one year in the nineties I remember, but no-one remembers that now. And only people under 13 cared about it, of course.

My tattooed friends have tattoos on their upper arms, wrists, shoulders and every other normal place. I have no idea why people call girls with lower back tattoos tramp stamps either. The placement of your tattoo hardly says anything about your moral or sexuality. :confused:

Just let people get tattooed where they want. And ignore what others will think of it. It's for yourself, not others.

Love2Raid
19-10-09, 19:42
Now I know that tattoos are nowadays considered very unsightly and people think most of them are lame, but I've always wanted a couple and I always wanted a custom one, not just choosing from the catalog.

Since I consider tattoos ruin the body's beauty to some extent I really want them small and in places that are not that exposed.

For that reason, since moment I realized I wanted one, the front part of my abdomen (chest and stomach) were out, so were the arms (tacky and everyone has a tattoo there).

I really like neck and the head behind the ear for a tattoo(I wanted a Japanese kanji for life, water or house there), leg ankle is OK too, I like a small one on ribcage, which should say "Better anorexic than fat"(It's stupid I know, it's supposed to be just for fun, not that it's really true) and what I've always wanted and considered the most beautiful place for a tattoo to be lower back aka. tramp stamp. I really wanted an Edgar Allan Poe quote there. Now I'm so sad that so many people thing it's a tacky place for a tattoo because it is the best one IMO.

Here's why: I have no hair on my lower back, my muscles there are tight so the tattoo would look well, I will never be fat on that part (I might have fat on my front stomach and love handles) and it just looks so pretty.

But, I've recently found out that apparently if you are a guy, having a tattoo on your lower back is unheard of and considered very gay. It is not that I have a problem with it or that it would make me reconsider really, but I'm wondering why is this?

Why is only "manly" to have an ugly tribal on your upper back or a scorpion on your bicep? That is ridiculous!

Share opinions if you will, even if it's on tattoos only, not necessarily on my problem.

Until that line, I actually thought you were a girl... :o

In my honest opinion, I think a tattoo above the ass for guys is kind of gay, sorry. :o
But it's your body, do whatever you like.

*richietrent*
19-10-09, 19:47
Ya know what dude - do what YOU want, not what the guys in there think or feel! Its the norm for people to have tattoo's anywhere nowadays so just go for it.. we only live once anyways.. obviously you've been thinking about it for a while before posting it on here otherwise you wouldn't have done so, im guessing?

Im thinking of getting a tattoo myself as it goes.. on my left arm, just before the elbow.. on the inside of the arm (obviously!), and i dont care what people think, but yeah thats just me i spose. Just do what ya feel comfortable with :D

Mystery-King
19-10-09, 19:54
It's YOUR tattoo going on YOUR body, and as long as you feel comfortable with it, what right do people have to judge you or assume your sexuality?

I'm gonna be honest, and if you DID get one on your lower back and I didn't know you and saw it one day, I probably would make silent assumptions. Its silly though how that area is considered... gay.

I know for sure, when I'm older I'm going to get a tattoo though. Something egyptian definetly. But don't really know where yet...
Trust me though, I've known straight guys get tattoos in weirder places than that :whi: (But maybe not appropiate to say where on the forums.) :eek:

My advice, GO FOR IT! Its your body!

(P.S Tribal tattoos do rarely ever turn out decent...)

Nerd For Life
19-10-09, 20:04
If you're concerned about getting a tattoo on your lower back because everyone says it's "gay", don't get any tattoos. If you're having doubts now, I truly believe you will regret it later.

The Swede
19-10-09, 21:25
If you're having doubts, don't get a tattoo.

You got to be 110% sure!!!


And what Thorir sad: It's for yourself, not others. So don't care what others think.

Nannonxyay
19-10-09, 21:46
Why do tattoos have to have a meaning? I find it more annoying if people get a tattoo in memory of their beloved dog who died or something. It's silly. I watch Miami Ink and I only care about what the tattoo looks like, I couldn't give a flying monkeys what it stood for. Sure, there's nothing wrong with getting tattoos which have some meaning, but complaining about what other people put on their bodies is pointless. It's not your decision. It's theres. And so what if they regret it later on? Someone could get something significant to them or then regret it years later because it's no longer significant or they've moved on.

Also, I don't know what's the problem with having a tattoo on your lower back if you're a straight guy. I'm sure those straight guys on Miami Ink have tattoos on their lower backs. But I think if you're not 100% sure then you shouldn't get it done, just in case you do regret it. You have to be 100% sure.

The whole lower back stereotype thing reminds me of the stereotype of women with sleeve tattoos. People say they make women look butch. I can't logically think why people would think that way. I think sleeves on women can look beautiful and feminine. It's silly that people would think that way.

Nerd For Life
19-10-09, 21:48
I'd get a tattoo if my dog died! :p

Nannonxyay
19-10-09, 21:50
I'd get a tattoo if my dog died! :p

I don't really mind if people get tattoos in memory of things, it's just annoying when all these people on Miami Ink share their sob stories. It's like: "Stfu and show me the tattoo, *****." :p

Nerd For Life
19-10-09, 21:56
LOL, some of those stories are really heart-breaking, though. I can relate with all the people who got a tattoo in memory of their father/mother.

Nannonxyay
19-10-09, 22:17
LOL, some of those stories are really heart-breaking, though. I can relate with all the people who got a tattoo in memory of their father/mother.

I know that some of the stories are very personal and sad, but to be honest, I don't really want to hear about it. I'd prefer to just see what the tattoo looks like. I'm more interested in that. If that makes me heartless then so be it, basically. :p

I mean, I'm not saying people shouldn't get tattoos in memory of their parents, but I really can't stand the sob stories on Miami Ink.

Legend 4ever
19-10-09, 22:18
OK, I didn't know people would react like this, this is so overwhelming.

First of all, it's not that I'm not sure I want a tattoo, I want many of them, but I'm just getting ready for the first one now and I was just confused with why it is not masculine for a guy to have a tattoo on his lower back?

Someone said "above ass". Well, that's not true and even if it was on the ass it wouldn't be gay IMO. Not that I would want it there, but my friend actually has his girlfriend's name on his butt. So, people would expect of him to put it on his shoulder or his bicep. That's ridiculous. The only place the tattoo actually CAN ruin the beauty of the body is upper front abdomen.

I didn't quite ask these questions for people to tell me if I should get a tattoo or not, I was just asking why would if be considered gay. Because it's common for girls and it's called a tramp stamp by many?!

I mean, it's ridiculous. Besides, how does a verse from Edgar Allan Poe's poem make it a tramp stamp. It's not like I want to do a tribal or a butterfly for God's sake. I'm not getting my tattoos for other people that is exactly why I'm not having them on visible places. Because I want them to be a part of me, not the impression I wanna make on others.

Thorir
19-10-09, 22:26
I think you kinda answered your own question. :)
It's not any place everyone will see.
You don't concider it a strange place for a tattoo.

I have never in my life heard of lower back tattoos being prominent for gays. They get tattooed in the same places as everyone else.
If it's a male/male symbol, then yes, it might signal gay. Edgar Allan Poe?
No.

It seems like you really want the tattoo in that place.
I say go for it. :)

Legend 4ever
19-10-09, 23:37
Thank you so much.

I always get stuck in some irrational thinking sometimes without focusing on what I want.

LaraLuvrrr
20-10-09, 04:08
If you want a lower back tattoo then **** go for it! But the only thing I'd be worried about is who are you gonna get to do it? If you dont mind getting a weird look from the tattoo artist at a tattoo parlor or maybe have him not want to do it though i doubt it cuz they need the money then go for it.

And it is "gay" to get a tattoo there because usually women get it so when they wear little tops and low rise jeans you can see the tat. But you are gay so who cares. If you want it then go for it


As for why is it considered taboo for a guy to get a tat in that area in the tattoo community. It has just become that way. Like all customs and trends... men wouldnt get a tat there women would and over time it became the norm. So break it if you feel like it.

Legend 4ever
20-10-09, 04:11
I'm bi but either way it shouldn't be gay because it's just a place on the body, no one can reserve it as something like that. But whatever.

LaraLuvrrr
20-10-09, 04:15
I'm bi but either way it shouldn't be gay because it's just a place on the body, no one can reserve it as something like that. But whatever.

Well lipstick is just a colored pigment on a stick.... why should it be something only women can put on? lol its just customs and social norms that become that way over time.

Blame previous generations of tattoo artists

Plus a tattoo above the booty emphasizes it. And men typically dont wanna draw attention to their butt. But do want to draw attention to their buff back and arms

Legend 4ever
20-10-09, 04:23
Like I said before, I don't want to draw attention to anything since I'm doing it for myself. And if I want the final lines of The Fall Of House of Usher on my back it's gonna happen. It has nothing to do with sex or gayness for God's sake, it's just a nice place.

violentblossom
20-10-09, 13:37
EDIT: **** it. doesn't matter.