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Phlip
24-10-09, 21:54
I've seen a lot about Uncharted having a better combat system. But the thing is, Uncharted is a shooter, mainly. So for Tomb Raider, how the hell could manual aim be practical? :confused: I just simply can't see it working. I think a lot of you just want in there for the sake of it. Or if you think people will laugh at the combat system because of how you have to jump around and it looking "silly." Try using a different word: dodge. The combat system is dodge based instead of cover.

Imagine trying to shoot a bat, spider or any other small enemies. Even with large enemies it's still very realistic to have auto aim. It's just a matter of swapping manual for better control. Lara should only rarely shoot humans anyway.

larafan25
24-10-09, 21:56
I don't want manual aim, manual grab yes but not for aiming your guns..

I remember the manual aim option in cores games, it was dumb and pointless...you basically run around hoping to be infront of the enemy when shooting so your bullets hit him:p

Legend of Lara
24-10-09, 21:58
Maybe they could go the Manual/Auto-grab route again and make it an option?

Phlip
24-10-09, 21:59
^Then good luck to those wasting time switching it on and off for large animals and then small.
I remember the manual aim option in cores games, it was dumb and pointless...you basically run around hoping to be infront of the enemy when shooting so your bullets hit him:p

That was unbelievably stupid.
tbh, I think Crystal's combat system is perfect. Running and dodging. To change targets you move the right analogue stick (camera), and there are lots of cool moves. It was the most fluid in Legend and Anniversary.

Tony9595
24-10-09, 22:00
I don't want manual aim, manual grab yes but not for aiming your guns..

I remember the manual aim option in cores games, it was dumb and pointless...you basically run around hoping to be infront of the enemy when shooting so your bullets hit him:p

Same here, I want auto aim :D
And yeah, it was funny to use manual aim in the older TR games :p

larafan25
24-10-09, 22:01
phlip I agree, in underworld the evasve moves don't actually work and are too flashy.

I kinda hope they just have the roll and side dodges like in anniversary and then include a machete the same way you could use the poles in underworld, however that is totally off topic:)

I think auto-aim is good for tomb raider unless they are getting rid of all the flips and stuff:)

Phlip
24-10-09, 22:06
On the subject of combat I also think combat reticules rock. They let you know whether a bug or something is ever so slightly behind something so you don't waste ammo. Xiabalba or w/e would be an example. Though if they where semi transparent they would look better.

TombRaiderFan.
24-10-09, 22:10
Combat was average in TRU, but TR isn't about combat. I think that all they should add is some sort of cover system or whatever they are called where you can hide from enemies' bullets and such. :)

Phlip
24-10-09, 22:11
Combat was average in TRU, but TR isn't about combat. I think that all they should add is some sort of cover system or whatever they are called where you can hide from enemies' bullets and such. :)

Pointless seeing as most of Lara's enemies will be creatures and animals in tombs. It's not worth having a whole move for something she won't use at all very often. And you're not gonna be taking cover from creatures and animals.

larafan25
24-10-09, 22:13
Combat was average in TRU, but TR isn't about combat. I think that all they should add is some sort of cover system or whatever they are called where you can hide from enemies' bullets and such. :)

thats a horrible way of looking at it.

if combat sucks they need to improve it, and it has sucked since the begning so it needs to be improved:)

Phlip
24-10-09, 22:15
thats a horrible way of looking at it.

if combat sucks they need to improve it, and it has sucked since the begning so it needs to be improved:)

How can it possibly be improved? Please enlighten me. I can't figure it out. :( It's perfect in Legend/Anni.

lice23
24-10-09, 22:31
Well I think that they should have manual aim only for certain weapons. For example, you have a rifle, and you're at a high altitude and you have a scope. If it were on auto-aim, you wouldn't see smack! However, if there was a way to use the scope, and use manual aim to look around, that would make TR much better don't you guys think?

larafan25
24-10-09, 22:33
^yes for a rifle and a bow and arrow manual aim would work by pressing the aim botton:)

Phlip, combat was the best IMO in anniversary, it was simple tomb raider combat but it worked.

however combat has stayed practically the same boring stuff for every game with the exception of AOD and TRU which had extra abilities like a kick and punch.

I think CD need to give lara a kick and punch move like doppel had and some how seemlessly work the machete into the ranged combat. maybe an advanced version of how lara used the meele objects in underworld.

I think tomb raider combat should be about resourcefullness and using all you have.

therefor you should be able to use random objects found in the environment for combat, random puzzle items to hit against enemies(like the boxes and stone keys in underworld)

there should be multipurpose tools such as the climbing axe in TRO that would be used for combat and climbing.

we should be able to kick and punch

we should be able to seemlessly toggle lara from a sneak to a walk to a run using varried pressure on the analog stick(the sneak should actually work) and the crouch should work as a sneek and cover too.

also lara should be able to kcik and enemy when jumping off of something from above the enemy.

all these abilities seem complicated however they aren't, when you put them together into a combat system that is fun and user friendly it is perfect.

to me combat should be about the player finding their own way of using their items and making their own strategies.and I think that is where the survival element comes into play in TRO, the combat is survival based. that doesn't mean it is survival gamecombat it means it is survival combat.

anyways I imagine auto-aim with lara holding one gun shooting creatures further away and slashing closer creatures with her machete or knocking them with her climbing axe. this combined with a roll to dodge an enemy attack:)

I may try nto come up with a control scheme in a while to make it make more sense.

Phlip
24-10-09, 22:38
Well I think that they should have manual aim only for certain weapons. For example, you have a rifle, and you're at a high altitude and you have a scope. If it were on auto-aim, you wouldn't see smack! However, if there was a way to use the scope, and use manual aim to look around, that would make TR much better don't you guys think?
That could work if there was a look button. But that particular gun should have long range so if you can see it, Lara can and she will auto aim.
^combat was the best IMO in anniversary, it was simple tomb raider combat but it worked.

however combat has stayed practically the same boring stuff for every game with the exception of AOD and TRU which had extra abilities like a kick and punch.

I think CD need to give lara a kick and punch move like doppel had and some how seemlessly work the machete into the ranged combat. maybe an advanced version of how lara used the meele objects in underworld.

I think tomb raider combat should be about resourcefullness and using all you have.

therefor you should be able to use random objects found in the environment for combat, random puzzle items to hit against enemies(like the boxes and stone keys in underworld)

there should be multipurpose tools such as the climbing axe in TRO that would be used for combat and climbing.

we should be able to kick and punch

we should be able to seemlessly toggle lara from a sneak to a walk to a run using varried pressure on the analog stick(the sneak should actually work) and the crouch should work as a sneek and cover too.

also lara should be able to kcik and enemy when jumping off of something from above the enemy.

all these abilities seem complicated however they aren't, when you put them together into a combat system that is fun and user friendly it is perfect.

to me combat should be about the player finding their own way of using their items and making their own strategies.and I think that is where the survival element comes into play in TRO, the combat is survival based. that doesn't mean it is survival gamecombat it means it is survival combat.

anyways I imagine auto-aim with lara holding one gun shooting creatures further away and slashing closer creatures with her machete or knocking them with her climbing axe. this combined with a roll to dodge an enemy attack:)

I may try nto come up with a control scheme in a while to make it make more sense.

Just because it's been used doesn't mean it has to be changed from being boring. As long as it's flawless like Legend/Anniversary's is IMO then it should stay like that and EVER be tweaked in a million years unless it's definitely for the better, and even still not major. Stealth like you say could work. A walk button could act as one. When she's in a certain distance from a human enemy she'll sneak instead of walk and you can use hand to hand combat. Then again human enemies shouldn't be used so often in a game like TR.

lice23
24-10-09, 22:47
When she's in a certain distance from a human enemy she'll sneak instead of walk and you can use hand to hand combat. Then again human enemies shouldn't be used so often in a game like TR.
Unless those humans are cannibal indians of course ;)
The one thing I hated about the Auto-aim in AOD was that she would point at enemies that were in the adjacent room. That was extremely annoying especially while walking down stairs. I hope we won't have this problem in TRO
EDIT: Plus I was talking about manual-aim ONLY for long range weapons. The auto aim would be able to be used of course, but it wouldn't be able to see tigers for example from the top of a mountain, where a rifle with a scope in manual aim would

larafan25
24-10-09, 22:56
I just realised that we do have a manual aim however we canot run or jump/ roll with it toggled.

General Movements

(x) Jump (height + length varried by pressure)
(/\) Interact/ kick + punch
(square) Throw Grapple(/\ to pull)
(O) Roll/ crouch

Press down right analog stick for Manual Aim(mainly for bow + rifle)

Lightly move right analog stick forward for sneak
add more pressure to analog stick for walk
fully move right analog stick forward for run

move left analog stick for camera

[L1] Sprint
[R1] flare/ Grenade

up on D pad for large herb
right on D pad for gun selection
down on D pad for small herb
left on D pad for binoculars(or for meele weapon select)

Combat

(X) jump
(/\) Interact/ kick + punch/ swing machete/ swing climbing axe
(square) Grapple/ grapple enemy(/\) to pull
(O) Roll/ crouch/ dodge

Press down right analog stick for manual Aim

[R1] Grenade

[L2] lock on target
[R2] shoot ranged weapon


thats my idea of how the control scheme would work based apon underworlds configuratin and using the legend/ anniversary sneak walk run with the analoge stick:)

larafan25
24-10-09, 23:00
That could work if there was a look button. But that particular gun should have long range so if you can see it, Lara can and she will auto aim.


Just because it's been used doesn't mean it has to be changed from being boring. As long as it's flawless like Legend/Anniversary's is IMO then it should stay like that and EVER be tweaked in a million years unless it's definitely for the better, and even still not major. Stealth like you say could work. A walk button could act as one. When she's in a certain distance from a human enemy she'll sneak instead of walk and you can use hand to hand combat. Then again human enemies shouldn't be used so often in a game like TR.

boring is a flaw, and it is a huge flaw in tomb raider combat.

alot of people for some reason think that because tomb raiders combat has always been the same that it shouldn't be improved and that they should fopcus on improving other elements.

however they have been improving other elements and this is time to improve combat.

you know when you get sick of the way your bedroom looks and you want to improve the appearence and arrangment, you move your bed to the other wall and put the chair in the opposite corner and it looks better. then about 3 days later you realize it looks boring again and it hasn't actually been improved but simply changed.

there for a huge difference between improving and chan ging and tomb raiders combat has only ever changed but not improved.

lice23
24-10-09, 23:01
Maybe with the manual aim we could insert the human factor. No human is capable of holding a rifle without moving. To answer that problem, we could put a prone option. for example, press O while moving to roll press O while stopped to crouch and press it again to get up and press and hold O to go prone.

Phlip
24-10-09, 23:06
Unless those humans are cannibal indians of course ;)
The one thing I hated about the Auto-aim in AOD was that she would point at enemies that were in the adjacent room. That was extremely annoying especially while walking down stairs. I hope we won't have this problem in TRO
EDIT: Plus I was talking about manual-aim ONLY for long range weapons. The auto aim would be able to be used of course, but it wouldn't be able to see tigers for example from the top of a mountain, where a rifle with a scope in manual aim would
But if the player can see something far away then Lara should be able to if the Sniper is equip. Unless it's pistols or something then she won't because it's too far. But yeah aim with a look merged with walk button could work:
I just realised that we do have a manual aim however we canot run or jump/ roll with it toggled.

General Movements

(x) Jump (height + length varried by pressure)
(/\) Interact/ kick + punch
(square) Throw Grapple(/\ to pull)
(O) Roll/ crouch

Press down right analog stick for Manual Aim(mainly for bow + rifle)

Lightly move right analog stick forward for sneak
add more pressure to analog stick for walk
fully move right analog stick forward for run

move left analog stick for camera

[L1] Sprint
[R1] flare/ Grenade

up on D pad for large herb
right on D pad for gun selection
down on D pad for small herb
left on D pad for binoculars(or for meele weapon select)

Combat

(X) jump
(/\) Interact/ kick + punch/ swing machete/ swing climbing axe
(square) Grapple/ grapple enemy(/\) to pull
(O) Roll/ crouch/ dodge

Press down right analog stick for manual Aim

[R1] Grenade

[L2] lock on target
[R2] shoot ranged weapon


thats my idea of how the control scheme would work based apon underworlds configuratin and using the legend/ anniversary sneak walk run with the analoge stick:)

Here's my perfect control config:

(X) Jump
(Square) Action
(Triangle) Hand to hand combat uncharted style
(O) Forward roll if running, if standing still - classic crouch and crawl
(^) Health pack
(<) Cycle weapons left
(>) Cycle weapons right
(v) Draw flare
(L2) Draw weapons
(R2) Shoot (Crystal style combat)
(L1) Sprint
(R1) AOD style walk (toggle on or off by pressing or hold to keep walking) AND pan camera far back to get a good view. Doing this with weapons drawn will aim - so this is the walk button and camera drawing far back merged. Also with aim for when holding weapons would work perfectly.
(L3) Display HUD
(R3) Centre camera instantly (PS2 AOD style)

The thing I hate with a lot of games from PS2 onwards is that you have to lightly push on the analogue stick to make them walk or creep. I can only hold it lightly for a few seconds before I give in and push it al the way. :(

larafan25
24-10-09, 23:07
^hell no, you mean like toggle the ability to crouch:O

I think it is a better idea to have most things pressure based instead of toggled(classic tomb raiders had way tommuch toggling)

I think that we should stand on the spot and press O to crouch or to roll be running and press O to roll like it has always been in CD's games


for stealth and walking/ running I think we should have to lightly move the analog stick to sneak like in legend and anniversary

then add more pressure to walk

then push it fully to run

then have a sprint botton that can increase her running speed and have a sprint jump.

also if we are going to be able to steer lara mid air in a jump then we should be able to varry her jump height and length depending on the pressure on the jump botton:)

Phlip
24-10-09, 23:10
I can't manage lightly holding the analogue stick for more than a few seconds. AOD style walk toggle is perfect. Hold it to walk and let go and she'll stop, or tap it to toggle walk if you want to walk for a long time. It's entirely up to you. I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

lice23
24-10-09, 23:11
It might be that I'm playing to much AOD but I'd prefer the shooting button to be action while the gun is in your hand, then you can have R2 to do whatever you want. Of course the game would have to come with completely changeable controls. Or else it would suck...
I can't manage lightly holding the analogue stick for more than a few seconds. AOD style walk toggle is perfect. Hold it to walk and let go and she'll stop, or tap it to toggle walk if you want to walk for a long time. It's entirely up to you. I hope you understand what I'm talking about.
Yes, I loved that feature in AOD. It helped when you had to shoot someone that was shooting you while you were up on a small ledge...

Phlip
24-10-09, 23:14
It might be that I'm playing to much AOD but I'd prefer the shooting button to be R1. Of course the game would have to come with completely changeable controls. Or else it would suck...

As far as my logic will go, I can see no way of making changeable control configs. If you mess it up then you're screwed because with a PC the keyboard is your primary source for backup, in a way.

lice23
24-10-09, 23:16
Or you could change it, and if you didn't like it, press a "DEFAULT SETTINGS" button.

Phlip
24-10-09, 23:25
The default settings button would have to be close, in bold and the analogue stick would have to be the primary source of movement. Then you'd have to look to see what you assigned the action button to be and use that to activate the default settings.
Then again, it would be weird reassigning the action button by pressing it and choosing another. But it could work. :tmb: Developers are ****wits for not giving us this option. There no reason not to.

lice23
24-10-09, 23:31
Actually I got this idea from my Naruto game! xD

Super Badnik
24-10-09, 23:32
Auto-aim for Tomb Raider, most defintley auto-aim. Call me a challenge hating noob all you want, but first try playing the Wii version of Anniversary.

Tony9595
24-10-09, 23:35
Auto-aim for Tomb Raider, most defintley auto-aim. Call me a challenge hating noob all you want, but first try playing the Wii version of Anniversary.

Bad example, after a while it gets pretty cool :cool:

lice23
24-10-09, 23:36
I own a Wii and can imagine moving around the controller trying to make Lara point at a tiger which is like, right in front of her and swearing heavily while trying! :vlol:

seashell093
24-10-09, 23:54
I liked the automatic lock on with the option to zoom in (for manual) if needed like in TRU. :tmb:
EDIT: wii TRA was very challenging to aim at first but when you did get the hang of it...:cool: :p

michaeldt
25-10-09, 00:32
so far, TRL has had the best combat IMO, you could grapple enemies towards you, you could stun your enemies then go up to them and kick them, you could jump off their head and go slo-mo, so could kick off their head and back to the ground to stun them, you could throw grenades, your enemies could throw grenades and if you were lucky eneough to see it, your enemies would sometimes throw a grenade back at you that you threw at them.

Romantics Inc.
25-10-09, 00:37
Whaaiii do you want to convert everything to what friggen "Uncharted" is?? UNCHARTED SUCKS. I hate that they had to take the essence of Lara Croft and make it masculine and modernized...

Zebra
25-10-09, 00:39
TBH I don't want a lot of shooting. I think you should use melee combat most of the time and only shoot (with a bow or gun) in very special situations (you should only have very limited ammo to keep you from using the gun or bow all the time). And for those few situations it should be manual aim to really provide a challenge for those special situations. I think it would simply be cool. Lara's probably not used to shooting guns or bows so she'd have problems aiming and she'd have to learn it. It would be cool if the player also had to "learn" it alongside :D.

Sir Croft
25-10-09, 00:39
I want manual aim, and cover system. Jumping like a monkey and shooting at the same time is getting boring.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 00:48
so far, TRL has had the best combat IMO, you could grapple enemies towards you, you could stun your enemies then go up to them and kick them, you could jump off their head and go slo-mo, so could kick off their head and back to the ground to stun them, you could throw grenades, your enemies could throw grenades and if you were lucky eneough to see it, your enemies would sometimes throw a grenade back at you that you threw at them.

I prefer AoD, you can have a bunch of weapons, stealth and physical attacke (including a spinning jump kick) maybe add a laser sight.


TR combat should not be manual aim it just doesnt work, like limited ammo doesnt mix with it or no bosses. seriously why do people all want to change EVERYTHING change is good but that doesnt mean you have to change everything.

I would be perfectly happy playing the same style spyro 1-3 games or same style TR 1-5. change is good changing style is bad.

Rex
25-10-09, 00:53
I think it's time Tomb Raider switched to manual aim. I'm getting tired of rolling around enemies ten times before they die. Also, they should just take out all really small animals like bats and spiders so it won't be a pain to shoot them.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 00:56
you meen so you can hit them with manual aim? yah taking out enemies to accomadate your needs, nough said

Zebra
25-10-09, 00:57
I prefer AoD, you can have a bunch of weapons, stealth and physical attacke (including a spinning jump kick) maybe add a laser sight.


TR combat should not be manual aim it just doesnt work, like limited ammo doesnt mix with it or no bosses. seriously why do people all want to change EVERYTHING change is good but that doesnt mean you have to change everything.

I would be perfectly happy playing the same style spyro 1-3 games or same style TR 1-5. change is good changing style is bad.

I think (at least for TRO) there shouldn't be a lot of combat at all. Lara's inexperienced so she's most likely gonna get out of harm's way as often as possible. And she doesn't have a lot of ammo either (Eventhough she might find arrows lying around on the island). So there's not gonna be a lot of shooting. But I think the few shooting that's there should be manually aimed. It would simply look silly to have you shooting and jumping around (like in previous TRs with automatic aim) in such a serious game (dark, scary, mysterious, with realistic graphics,...).

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:03
this isn't a first person shooter zebra, and she didn't look silly and finding ammo out of no where is what Lara does, plus... IT'S A VIDEO GAME its not supposed to be realistic! and don't forget about her infinite ammo pistols.

:BitterSweet:
25-10-09, 01:04
Normally I would say auto-aim but... The run and jump thing is getting pretty boring, I would mind it but maybe it is time for a change. With that being said though, I can't see how manual-aim can work with animals and the such. So I'm not really sure what I want.

One thing I want for shooting though is unlimited ammo for pistols or whatever her main weapon is! (but that's a different subject)

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:07
this isn't a first person shooter zebra, and she didn't look silly and finding ammo out of no where is what Lara does, plus... IT'S A VIDEO GAME its not supposed to be realistic! and don't forget about her infinite ammo pistols.

Of course it's not a shooter. That's why I said there should only be very little combat ;).

And of course it's just a video game. But it would really pull me out of the experience if she was on a deserted island and had unlimited ammunition. In the other games it wasn't as bad because she was usually prepared for an adventure and had packed her backpack accordingly. But in this case she didn't. She probably doesn't even know how to use a gun at the beginning of the game. It would really destroy the atmosphere of being totally alone and totally lost on that island if she had unlimited ammo IMO.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:13
just cause its not first person doesnt meen it has to have little combat and effective auto aim is usualy first person if you want it to work well(or close up and sticking to the charcter with the aming circle) Although combat should be tougher now, like in old TR but thats off topic.

EDIT: and shes lara croft of course she can use a gun, well if its really her and we dont know the plot for sure, does everything have to make sense and be realistick for you?

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:19
just cause its not first person doesnt meen it has to have little combat and effective amain is usualy first person if you want it to work well(or close up and sticking to the charcter with the aming circle) but combat should be tougher now, like in old TR.

EDIT: and shes lara croft of course she can use a gun, well if its really her and we dont know the plot for sure, does everything have to make sense and be realistick for you?

She's Lara Croft, yes. But if the leaked info is true she's not a tomb raider at the beginning of the game. Not a big adventurer. So I guess she's not all that familiar with guns at the beginning. And I don't really understand your first paragraph tbh.

lice23
25-10-09, 01:20
I agree with you uzi master. If she doens't have her dual pistols, than at least give her some sort of emergency weapon from the vessel. Plus, if she's so young, what would she be doing alone on a vessel in the middle of nowhere? She would have to no how to survive and what not, or else she wouldn't've been in the vessel in the first place and this idea wouldn't exist.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:21
Your point? if you want realism go play the sims.:p thanks lice:D

lice23
25-10-09, 01:23
Lol!

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:24
I agree with you uzi master. If she doens't have her dual pistols, than at least give her some sort of emergency weapon from the vessel. Plus, if she's so young, what would she be doing alone on a vessel in the middle of nowhere? She would have to no how to survive and what not, or else she wouldn't've been in the vessel in the first place and this idea wouldn't exist.

Think of young Lara from TR4 or TRC. She also didn't have a gun and wasn't a real tomb raider. But she definitely knew how to survive. Besides, who says she's alone? Maybe there was someone with her on the vessel but he/she drowned or sth.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:26
in TR4 she had von croy who used his weapon to kill animals in front of Lara, and in TR5 she was visting winston she didn't know she was going to stow away to a haunted island.

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:29
Your point? if you want realism go play the sims.:p thanks lice:D

There is realism and there is realism, you know. I'm not saying everything in a game should be realistic because if that was the case, games would simply be boring :p. But there are certain things that should be realistic in order to make the game and its story credible. And in the case of Lara getting lost on a deserted island limited ammo is definitely one of those things.

in TR4 she had von croy who used his weapon to kill animals in front of Lara, and in TR5 she was visting winston she didn't know she was going to stow away to a haunted island.

She knew how to survive on her own, anyway.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:32
ok unlimited ammo pistols isn't much, they won't do much damage and are useful if lets say you need to shoot something down for a puzzle, and yes she knew how to survive that has nothing to do with wether or not she could use weapons since Lara was training to be an archeologist anyway.

lice23
25-10-09, 01:39
Besides, who says she's alone? Maybe there was someone with her on the vessel but he/she drowned or sth.
That might be true but then he'd have some sort of weapon on him, and she'd get it and use it. So what if she didn't know how to use a gun. She would teach herself, or die. I think she'd learn, pretty quickly...

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:39
ok unlimited ammo pistols isn't much, they won't do much damage and are useful if lets say you need to shoot something down for a puzzle, and yes she knew how to survive that has nothing to do with wether or not she could use weapons since Lara was training to be an archeologist anyway.

I was just stating that - eventhough she wasn't able to use a gun (if she had been Von Croy had probably given her one) - she was still able to survive (which you questioned in one of your previous posts). And how much damage the pistols do can be changed. If the game has manual aim and a limited amount of ammo the pistols will probably do much more damage than they would if the game had automatic aim and unlimited ammo.

Uzi master
25-10-09, 01:42
ummm ya the what if you run out of ammo and have something charge you? and we do have more powerful weapons doh! and I conquer lice, how hard could it be to learn how to use a pistol?

EDIT: sorry but its dark here anyway, again its a game so it doesnt have to be realistic so we can have weapons hidden around the place, simple like other games... what are the chances the people on left 4 dead found all those great weapons along the way?

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:45
That might be true but then he'd have some sort of weapon on him, and she'd get it and use it. So what if she didn't know how to use a gun. She would teach herself, or die. I think she'd learn, pretty quickly...

1st: Why would he have a weapon with him? It's just a harmless research expedition. Maybe a diving knife or sth.

2nd: And what does that have to do with whether the game should have manual aim or not?

ummm ya the what if you run out of ammo and have something charfgge you? and we do have more powerful weapons doh! and I conquer lice, how hard could it be to learn how to use a pistol?

Sorry but could you please take the time and look at your posts before clicking "Submit Reply"? It's sometimes hard to understand you and I have no idea what you mean with "charfgge" :o. But where the hell would she get more powerful weapons from on that island?

lice23
25-10-09, 01:46
Well after re-reading the TR9 concept, I think it would make sense for her to start without a gun. But if there are guns in the game, then obviously she knows how to use one. Maybe she might actually find those old pistols we have learned to love over the past decade on this island! Anyways, what you start with in the beginning of the game will remain a mystery until we have something released to us.
EDIT: It isn't that hard to learn how to fire a gun. I'm 13 and I know how! =D And my mom said I was wasting time with those movies... hehehe

Zebra
25-10-09, 01:52
Well after re-reading the TR9 concept, I think it would make sense for her to start without a gun. But if there are guns in the game, then obviously she knows how to use one. Maybe she might actually find those old pistols we have learned to love over the past decade on this island! Anyways, what you start with in the beginning of the game will remain a mystery until we have something released to us.
EDIT: It isn't that hard to learn how to fire a gun. I'm 13 and I know how! =D And my mom said I was wasting time with those movies... hehehe

Read my last post, please.

Spong
25-10-09, 02:03
Auto-aim or Manual aim?
Both.

lice23
25-10-09, 02:09
Read my last post, please.
I'm just saying that it makes sense that Lara should have a gun, and that it should be auto-aim, because I hate having to keep following the friggin monster and hoping I hit him. I think that manual aim should be for FPS's only! (unless its something like a rifle that's long ranged)

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:12
I'm just saying that it makes sense that Lara should have a gun, and that it should be auto-aim, because I hate having to keep following the friggin monster and hoping I hit him. I think that manual aim should be for FPS's only! (unless its something like a rifle that's long ranged)

I also thought that until I played a few games with manual aim and got used to it. Now I don't have ANY problems with it.

lice23
25-10-09, 02:14
I just can't get the hang of it...

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:16
Might be that it's really not your thing. Eventhough that would be very unfortunate because it'd keep you from playing a lot of great games.

lice23
25-10-09, 02:18
IMO I think manual aim is only good with FPS's. When you're looking at the guy from behind and you have to try and shoot a monkey it gets really hard. Unless it's something like Battlefront! xD

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:20
I guess monkeys are very unfortunate targets for manual aim. They're small and move very quickly. In that case it would probably be very annoying.

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:25
I want manual aim, and cover system. Jumping like a monkey and shooting at the same time is getting boring.
Totally unfair that you want it changed just because it's already been used. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
I think it's time Tomb Raider switched to manual aim. I'm getting tired of rolling around enemies ten times before they die. Also, they should just take out all really small animals like bats and spiders so it won't be a pain to shoot them.
:rolleyes: http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/Phlip_03/Icons%20and%20Smileys/mad0071-1.gif
Auto-aim or Manual aim?
Both.

How would that work?

lice23
25-10-09, 02:26
Exactly my point Zebra!

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:29
I guess monkeys are very unfortunate targets for manual aim. They're small and move very quickly. In that case it would probably be very annoying.

As Rex would like, we should remove all enemies that would be too frustrating to kill so we can use manual aim. :tmb:



:rolleyes:

lice23
25-10-09, 02:33
But that would take the fun out of the game! I remember those friendly monkeys in TRIII

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:34
As Rex would like, we should remove all enemies that would be too frustrating to kill so we can use manual aim. :tmb:



:rolleyes:

Not really. You'd have to find a way to make manual aim work with monkeys. You'd have to get creative and try to implement manual aim in a creative way. I'd be curiou if CD could pull that off.

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:45
The way you describe is like Uncharted 2 in Very Easy mode where there actually is an auto aim. Nate aims at the enemies himself as long as the reticule is near them. But then that is auto aim, and if you happen to need to run and gun from a monster or if you're in a boss fight I can't see it working.

larafan25
25-10-09, 02:47
^I'd hope boss battles in tomb raider are more environmental and puzzle based:)

anyways I think we can have auto and manual aim:)

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:48
The way you describe is like Uncharted 2 in Very Easy mode where there actually is an auto aim. Nate aims at the enemies himself as long as the reticule is near them. But then that is auto aim, and if you happen to need to run and gun from a monster or if you're in a boss fight I can't see it working.

No. I didn't describe anything. I just said they'd have to find a possibility to make it work. That'd be one possibility (but a very bad one). I was actually thinking of making the reticule move faster to accommodate to the target's speed. But there might also be better ways of doing it.

ChingKong
25-10-09, 02:49
arent both of these already implemented?

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:49
^I'd hope boss battles in tomb raider are more environmental and puzzle based:)

anyways I think we can have auto and manual aim:)

The only way I can fathom that working is if you take cover by pressing circle (roll) and press the (R1) look button to aim.

larafan25
25-10-09, 02:49
no cover:)

crouch is the cover silly:D

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:51
arent both of these already implemented?

No. So far we've only ever had automatic aiming in TR games (the only exception being the cannons in TRL).

ChingKong
25-10-09, 02:53
hmm. what about the manual aim used in TRu when you shoot the chains....in the kraken lair?

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:53
No. I didn't describe anything. I just said they'd have to find a possibility to make it work. That'd be one possibility (but a very bad one). I was actually thinking of making the reticule move faster to accommodate to the target's speed. But there might also be better ways of doing it.
Because I can't think of any way it could work. But if they do come up with a do-able way then I suppose I could be ok with it as long as it isn't frustrating. Otherwise I totally can't see the point in implementing manual aim.
arent both of these already implemented?

Not properly and cover based. (Thankfully.)

larafan25
25-10-09, 02:54
^exactly:)

I think that crouch should be the form of cover, so you crouch behind something and press the botton to toggle the manual aim reticul and then shoot away:)

ChingKong
25-10-09, 02:54
oh cover based?....hmmmi dunno....i guess if its necessary..if shes shooting human enemies i guess

Phlip
25-10-09, 02:55
I think that crouch should be the form of cover, so you crouch behind something and press the botton to toggle the manual aim reticul and then shoot away:)

What about covering behind an edge of a wall?

larafan25
25-10-09, 02:56
What about covering behind an edge of a wall?

non applicable


:D

Zebra
25-10-09, 02:57
hmm. what about the manual aim used in TRu when you shoot the chains....in the kraken lair?

That's no proper manual aim. You can't run around while doing it or anything. You wouldn't be able to properly play the game by using that "manual aim" function to shoot every enemy in the game. It just wouldn't work.

larafan25
25-10-09, 02:57
lara needs to ditch the whole fast run and gun things maybe....

Phlip
25-10-09, 03:01
All I know is the crystal style of combat is perfect. :0

Zebra
25-10-09, 03:34
I just thought of something really cool. Imagine Crystal uses a fixed camera in the next game. You won't need the right stick to control the camera anymore. So if you had manual aim and double pistoles you could manual aims BOTH pistoles differently :D. It probably wouldn't work (because you'd have to concentrate on both guns which would probably result in the whole system not working) but it'd be pretty interesting to try sth like that IMO.

Phlip
25-10-09, 03:41
Because of how easily you can turn in a 360 circle with an analogue stick it would make people dizzy having a fixed camera. I've tried holding the "move camera behind Lara" button and moving her around and it went really quick :p

TombRaiderFan.
25-10-09, 06:24
All I know is the crystal style of combat is perfect. :0

You forgot the NOT at the end. ;)

Zebra
25-10-09, 12:30
Because of how easily you can turn in a 360 circle with an analogue stick it would make people dizzy having a fixed camera. I've tried holding the "move camera behind Lara" button and moving her around and it went really quick :p

Of course the controls would have to be changed in order for a fixed camera to work. We'd need the "turn around"-button back, etc.

MiCkiZ88
25-10-09, 12:35
How about both? Being able to switch between two gunplay modes. Auto aim when running (not perfect) and aiming when walking/covering behind a wall/object.

Zebra
25-10-09, 12:43
How about both? Being able to switch between two gunplay modes. Auto aim when running (not perfect) and aiming when walking/covering behind a wall/object.

Or the player could toggle between the two in the options. There are different combat modes in Legend (eventhough I think those only change the camera's behaviour during combat). Why not have manual aim and automatic aim combat modes?

LightningRider
25-10-09, 12:54
Or the player could toggle between the two in the options. There are different combat modes in Legend (eventhough I think those only change the camera's behaviour during combat). Why not have manual aim and automatic aim combat modes?

Exactly. That would make it more user-friendly and fun. I wanna replay a game just to see how the combat ends up between both. :D

Tony9595
25-10-09, 13:54
Yeah, it was fun to replay Legend using the manual mode :)
Although it was kinda hard to center the camera on the enemies to make Lara shoot them.
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lice23
25-10-09, 13:56
Why don't they just make it toggle-able. That way, if you like auto aim, then it's in auto aim, but if you want manual-aim, then it's in manual-aim. Maybe there could even be a difficulty mode! Easy is auto-aim and low damage. Medium is Manual aim and normal damage, and hard is full out having to use the look button manual aim and does high damage.

Phlip
25-10-09, 13:56
You forgot the NOT at the end. ;)
What's wrong with Crystal's combat?
How about both? Being able to switch between two gunplay modes. Auto aim when running (not perfect) and aiming when walking/covering behind a wall/object.

Good idea, that could work.

jasonmtcsn
25-10-09, 18:08
TR has to switch to manual aim. Otherwise TR9 will probably be an unsuccessful reboot, and people still won't care about Lara Croft.
With auto aim TR9 will increase in sales a little, but Lara will be back to the bargain bin in time for TR10.

Dennis's Mom
25-10-09, 20:16
Of all the things that drew me to Tomb Raider, shooting the gun wasn't one of them. So I can't say I'd be impressed to make the game more about shooting the gun.

RAID
25-10-09, 20:27
Slow-moving gun-play with auto-aim is my choice.

lice23
25-10-09, 20:30
That would make it easier to aim at least.

aktrekker
25-10-09, 21:24
I prefer auto aim. I don't want to worry about aiming.

hera7days
25-10-09, 21:43
Is it weird that I think manual aim is actually easier than auto? Manual was hard the first time I tried it (in Saints Row 2, actually), but once I got used to it, it felt much more fluid and auto felt awkward. I think it mostly had to do with having more control- plus, that added to the immersion value. So my vote is for either manual aim or the option for it.

silver_wolf
25-10-09, 21:44
both. Lara will aim automatically if you just run around and shoot, but aiming manually will be more accurate.

Love2Raid
25-10-09, 21:47
I'll go with both as well. Auto-aim for battles with multiple enemies at close range, manual-aim for long-distance fights.

Uzi master
26-10-09, 02:48
as long as we can choose to only auto aim, if we switched automaticly when running and stopping it would be very glitchy.

CPETE
26-10-09, 03:25
PLEASE get rid of auto aim. I really don't see how a completely auto aim system can be done without going down the "hold down the fire button and flip around like a crazy person" route. I think there should definitely be manual aim for the next game. This is the only way to improve the combat system (that is if it's done well). I think that L1 should be held to draw weapons and R1 should be used to shoot. With guns drawn you can press jump plus a direction to flip in that direction to dodge, and the camera could zoom out while in the air and zoom back into an over the shoulder view once Lara lands. If she is using her pistols, one pistol could auto aim, and the other could be manually controlled (like in Wet). I just really want a complete overhaul of the combat system. I don't see why people constantly say that combat isn't a big part of Tomb Raider. If it wasn't then why have there been boss fights, a variety of enemies, and several different weapons in each of the games since the first? It is a big part of Tomb Raider. It just has never been done well.

ThatNorskChick
26-10-09, 03:30
TR isn't some shooter, I say keep it auto aim.

Also, bring back guys with giant wrenches and bats that will just beat you down no matter what.

Zebra
26-10-09, 12:15
Of all the things that drew me to Tomb Raider, shooting the gun wasn't one of them. So I can't say I'd be impressed to make the game more about shooting the gun.

How is switching to manual aim making the game more combat-focused? It isn't AT ALL. There'll still be only very little combat. It's just gonna be more fun and challenging.

Dennis's Mom
26-10-09, 13:00
Again, my idea of fun is not shooting a gun. My idea of fun is watching Lara do cool things. I like "flip and fire". This isn't to say I think what's been presented so far is perfect, but I liked being evasive rather than standing and shooting or taking cover.

LightningRider
26-10-09, 13:05
Ugh, I don't think hiding isn't gonna work in the jungles full of animals. :p

Besides, Flip and Fire is the only thing left from the last generation of games. Most have adopted the shooter mode, and I want something I'm used too for Tomb Raider.

Personally, I think WET handled it well with mixing the two. Just do something like those rather nice moves that actually work, remove the slo-mo Rubi does, and keep it auto aim, and you've got a nice system. :D

Zebra
26-10-09, 13:08
Again, my idea of fun is not shooting a gun. My idea of fun is watching Lara do cool things. I like "flip and fire". This isn't to say I think what's been presented so far is perfect, but I liked being evasive rather than standing and shooting or taking cover.

I understand your point. But I'm sure the creative heads at Crystal Dynamics (I haven't given up hope that there are some there) will be able to find a way to combine manual aim with Lara's acrobatics. If they could pull that off properly I'd be pretty impressed, actually.

larson n natla
26-10-09, 13:26
Id like it like the original were when an enemy comes into Lara's view she holds her pistols aiming at it :D

Failing that optional would be good ;)

MiCkiZ88
26-10-09, 13:27
Again, my idea of fun is not shooting a gun. My idea of fun is watching Lara do cool things. I like "flip and fire". This isn't to say I think what's been presented so far is perfect, but I liked being evasive rather than standing and shooting or taking cover.
Manual aim doesn't really make it necessary to ditch all the evasive moves (side flips, backflips, rolls etc), in fact it's not hard to aim whilst still doing those moves. Just keep the mouse focused on the target or camera when holding the analog stick and voila.

MisterCroft
26-10-09, 14:46
Auto aim, i really hated the manual aim, as it was so fiddly. I play a TR game for the simplicity of its combat, and the challange of the puzzles.

Trfansince1996
26-10-09, 15:40
There could be a manual aim option. But ultimately, for TR, it would be better if they left auto aim.

gremlinta
26-10-09, 15:47
I think it should be optional.

michaeldt
01-11-09, 04:29
I have some ideas as to how manual aim could work:

1. The player will put 1 reticule on a enemy and push the lock on button, Lara now locks her gun onto this enemy, the player now has to either aim at the other enemy or lock the other reticule onto the other enemy. (If Lara will have dual pistols)

2. the player will have one reticule and Lara will shoot both of her guns into that same place, if she has Dual pistols (sort of like in TR1-TRA how she would aim at one enemy with 2 guns, but with manual aim)

:)

LightningRider
01-11-09, 04:43
First one: Way too WET, but we'll see.

I just hope they remove Dual-Aim, it ruined the gunplay at times. :p

silver_wolf
01-11-09, 18:27
Auto aim is just way too freakin' easy. I mean think about it. It takes literally no skill: you hold down one button and hold down another and never stay in the same place for more than a second, and sooner or later the fight will be over. You don't even have to pay attention.

toughraid3r37
01-11-09, 23:01
I'd rather lara aim at enemies automatically. The only thing they can change with this is if her arms didnt glitch so often lol.

Phlip
01-11-09, 23:07
Auto aim is just way too freakin' easy. I mean think about it. It takes literally no skill: you hold down one button and hold down another and never stay in the same place for more than a second, and sooner or later the fight will be over. You don't even have to pay attention.

Well I sure won't be trying for ten minutes to successfully shoot spiders/bats/any other tiny enemies after wasting all ammo for other guns for the sake of taking cover from the few human enemies in the game.

Catracoth
01-11-09, 23:13
I think it should be like in Grand Theft Auto IV: pull the aim trigger lightly for manual aim and all the way for auto aim.

Phlip
01-11-09, 23:20
I think it should be like in Grand Theft Auto IV: pull the aim trigger lightly for manual aim and all the way for auto aim.

Are you serious? I couldn't possibly comfortably hold the trigger half way down. It's not at ALL user friendly.

Catracoth
01-11-09, 23:22
Are you serious? I couldn't possibly comfortably hold the trigger half way down. It's not at ALL user friendly.

Yes I am; I didn't have any problems with it. Perhaps it was just you?
:)

Phlip
01-11-09, 23:27
I can't be making her run around shooting things with something held lightly. It's all or nothing. Just like I find it very hard to make Lara walk by holding the analogue stick half way. :(

Catracoth
01-11-09, 23:29
I think you need to refine your fine motor skills. Come visit my preschool class, that's what we're teaching the children now, :p.

Phlip
01-11-09, 23:33
I tried it just now and I can't. Possibly my "Real Triggers" PS3 controller accesory is making it harder. But I still wouldn't want to have to hold it lightly. When I move the analogue stick my finger pulls the trigger all the way. I can't help it so don't take the ****. :)

Catracoth
01-11-09, 23:39
Fair enough, but that's just how I would appreciate if it were done, since it caters to both the auto aim and manual aim lovers without making Tomb Raider as customizable as The Sims 3 :).

larafan25
02-11-09, 16:12
has anyone seen videos for just cause 2......

is there an auto aim function for that game?

as I think something similar would work for TR. having the player simply pull the guns out and auto aim without any reticles...however I guess that is like TRU.

Phlip
02-11-09, 16:29
has anyone seen videos for just cause 2......

is there an auto aim function for that game?

as I think something similar would work for TR. having the player simply pull the guns out and auto aim without any reticles...however I guess that is like TRU.

That's exactly like every Tomb Raider.

larafan25
02-11-09, 16:33
ya I know:p

LightningRider
03-11-09, 12:31
Press for Manual, hold for Auto Aim? :)

AmericanAssassin
03-11-09, 13:03
Manual aim in a TR game would be great. And a good cover system. :tmb:

Paddy
03-11-09, 13:08
Since I prefer to solve puzzles rather then shoot enemies, Id rather auto-aim. Less focus on shooting and more quality puzzles do it for me.

tranniversary119
03-11-09, 13:11
Manual aim could work well with a good hand-to-hand combat system. ;)

Drone
03-11-09, 13:32
Autoaim is so tombraider-esque. I'm all for it. Plus, autoaim frees us from idiotic reticules/crosshairs/whatever they're called. I really miss good ol' autoaim, the days when Lara didn't point her pistols at emptiness. Unfortunately the current aiming in TR needs a really good revamping

Zebra
03-11-09, 13:48
Autoaim is so tombraider-esque. I'm all for it. Plus, autoaim frees us from idiotic reticules/crosshairs/whatever they're called. I really miss good ol' autoaim, the days when Lara didn't point her pistols at emptiness. Unfortunately the current aiming in TR needs a really good revamping

You do know that the current TRs do still have auto-aim (and only auto-aim), no?

There has not been a single TR game using manual aim.

LightningRider
03-11-09, 13:53
You do know that the current TRs do still have auto-aim (and only auto-aim), no?

There has not been a single TR game using manual aim.

He means classic pose. Where in she holds the guns up at her sides, not in front pointing to nothingness. ;)

Zebra
03-11-09, 13:55
He means classic pose. Where in she holds the guns up at her sides, not in front pointing to nothingness. ;)

But that's not called auto-aim :p. That's called "classic pose where she holds the guns up at her sides" :D.

LightningRider
03-11-09, 13:56
But that's not called auto-aim :p. That's called "classic pose where she holds the guns up at her sides" :D.

But I think that's what Drone meant. Guess it's his fault. :p

Drone
03-11-09, 13:56
You do know that the current TRs do still have auto-aim (and only auto-aim), no?

There has not been a single TR game using manual aim.

did I say it hasn't? I just say that I liked old one. And now I would like to see a revamped autoaim.


p.s. and actually aiming at nothing isn't a really good autoaim, is it?

Zebra
03-11-09, 14:00
did I say it hasn't?


The way you said it made it seem like that.

LightningRider
03-11-09, 14:03
The way you said it made it seem like that.

Yeah, got confused there too. :p

larafan25
03-11-09, 15:27
did I say it hasn't? I just say that I liked old one. And now I would like to see a revamped autoaim.


p.s. and actually aiming at nothing isn't a really good autoaim, is it?

your comparing nothing to something.

lara's guns out is just the animations nothing to do with aiming.she simply aims them differently.

however in the newer games you must hold down a botton to aim(autoaim)

in cores games you toggled to have your guns out or not.

BASEnutter
03-11-09, 17:10
Manual aim in a TR game would be great. And a good cover system. :tmb:

Why does every new game out seem to need a cover system? Cover system does not equal greatness.

Drone
03-11-09, 17:16
The way you said it made it seem like that.

I just said that previous autoaim was tr's trademark. And actually lau had manual aim (z button by default). I didn't complain about it, I just didn't like new autoiam, that's it.



animations nothing to do with aiming. she simply aims them differently.

lmao did you even understand what you've said?

JB09
04-11-09, 21:45
I don't want manual aim, not in this type of game. In a FPS, yes, but not a third person combat system.

The only reason I can think of wanting a manual aim is because of the guns snapping to destructables in the middle of a fight, like what happened in Anniversary. Major annoying pain in the ass.

ccroft2003
05-11-09, 08:54
Don't want manual aim. Keep the shooting simple like the classics. TR is not a shooter!

Zebra
05-11-09, 14:31
I just said that previous autoaim was tr's trademark. And actually lau had manual aim (z button by default). I didn't complain about it, I just didn't like new autoiam, that's it.


But that wasn't proper manual aim. If you had that "manual aim" activated you could only walk very slowly. You couldn't run or jump or crouch or anything else.

Aranara
08-11-09, 08:15
For me: automatic grab and automatic aim.
Manual is for Wii.

michaeldt
08-11-09, 12:32
Don't want manual aim. Keep the shooting simple like the classics. TR is not a shooter!

all the reviews on TR games complain that the combat in TR is just the same thing over and over again, I know that TR is not a shooter but if TR wants good reviews again, it needs to start improving every aspect of the game.

cardmonster
08-11-09, 12:38
Manual aim, clearly. The automated system is tedious, easy and boring. The series won't become a shooter just because it employs manual aim combat.

paulwork
08-11-09, 12:58
Auto aim please, but manual grab and pecision jumping to add a sense of immediate danger. How can you tell I'm an old school raider?

Dennis's Mom
08-11-09, 13:42
all the reviews on TR games complain that the combat in TR is just the same thing over and over again, I know that TR is not a shooter but if TR wants good reviews again, it needs to start improving every aspect of the game.

And the combat in a shooter isn't the same thing over and over? Color me reactionary, but from what I've seen from watching gameplay, the combat in shooters is extremely duplicative. New wall to hide behind, new gun, new enemy, but generally the same thing over and over. For people who enjoy that sort of thing, I'm sure it's heaven on earth, but for those of us who find shooting a gun to be the least interesting aspect of Tomb Raider, it would be rather bland.

LightningRider
08-11-09, 13:47
When the Devs say Shooting isn't an important part of Tomb Raider, they sure as heck are right.

It isn't always there, who cares if the combat's a bit clunky I for one only want to explore. :D