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aktrekker
20-11-09, 00:55
Yep. A couple were dining at a lounge. They got bad service. When the bill came, a 16% gratuity had been added. They paid for their food, but refused to pay the gratuity. The bartender called the cops. The couple was arrested for theft.

http://my.yahoo.com/_ylt=AgBsOVBF_MfGPflIrTQXiLZG2vAI;_ylu=X3oDMTIxZHB yNmVjBGNwb3MDMgRpbnRsA3VzBHBrZwNpZC0xNTUzMwRwa2d2A zE2BHBvcwMyBHNlYwNteXRkLWZlYXQEc2xrA3RpdGxl/SIG=12pbtknfh/**http%3A//www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html%3Fyhp=1

You think that maybe one more business is about to close :p

SamReeves
20-11-09, 01:05
Who in the world would spend $73 on drinks? :eek:

That's reason enough to be stupid. :pi:

LegendLost
20-11-09, 01:18
Gratuity should only be added for large groups. Adding it to every bill for every customer is potential unfair. Yes it helps make sure the servers get money, but then where is the fairness if all the servers get the same amount in tips when some probably deserve much better and some, in the case of this story, probably don't deserve any tip. I wasn't there to know the situation, but I think the couple had a right to do what they did.

voltz
20-11-09, 01:20
and I'm certain tips having to equal 18% ain't going to help that bill overall. Honestly the whole tipping system is nothing more then a consumer trap. It should be abolished, but noooo... we gotta help waiter's make a livin.... **** THAT!! Restaurants should have been required by law to pay at least min wage to begin with!


DOWN WITH TIPPING!!! :smk:

Rai
20-11-09, 01:23
Wow, thank gawd tipping is optional in the UK. I think they had a right to refuse if they felt the service was bad.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 01:28
The whole tipping situation sucks in America. My relatives went to New York for their honeymoon, and went out for dinner. When they went to pay they $80 dollar tab, they gave the waiter their card and asked him to add the tip, as they didn't know how much to add. So he added a 100% service charge, doubling their bill. Disgusting.

Here in the UK, its totally up to you. I love tipping, since I work in a restaurant, but it does serve a purpose. It encourages wait staff to work hard to ensure you have a nice time out.

Little-Lara
20-11-09, 01:29
Yeah, but services aren't free. In some classy restaurants, the waiter will tell you how much to tip. If you have a larger party, then specially you have to tip.

I used to work in a beauty salon years ago, and there were times with the low pay when I used to depend on those tips.

voltz
20-11-09, 01:32
Here's a tip (lol), as opposed to having customers pay the tip after the meal, why not just include the fee into the bill (certain % or service amount barred by state law) and we'll call it even. If customers don't want to pay, then they can choose not to eat there.

Twilight
20-11-09, 01:43
Here's a tip (lol), as opposed to having customers pay the tip after the meal, why not just include the fee into the bill (certain % or service amount barred by state law) and we'll call it even. If customers don't want to pay, then they can choose not to eat there.

nice, a win-win situation. the customers dont even kno theyre tipping. and if they tip extra, thats even better :D

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 01:49
Here's a tip (lol), as opposed to having customers pay the tip after the meal, why not just include the fee into the bill (certain % or service amount barred by state law) and we'll call it even. If customers don't want to pay, then they can choose not to eat there.

Isn't that just basically stealing. Its like a shop just casually adding on a 20% markup just because they can. If the service is crap, you shouldn't expect to get a tip. Its just that- a reward.

Mr.Burns
20-11-09, 01:54
Talk about a complete waste of the police and the judicial system's time. :rolleyes:

voltz
20-11-09, 02:06
nice, a win-win situation. the customers dont even kno theyre tipping. and if they tip extra, thats even better :D

I should open a restaurant...

Isn't that just basically stealing. Its like a shop just casually adding on a 20% markup just because they can. If the service is crap, you shouldn't expect to get a tip. Its just that- a reward.

The law or whatever restaurants require these days pretty much sets people up to pay anyway. My idea was to ensure it gets marked up front as a (service fee) so that people will know what they're getting into without having to do the forced obligation so employees still have food on their plate. If a limit to how much said restaurant was set in place, this will help keep customers from getting ripped on that 100% markup which would have gone to some owner's wine bottle anyway.

miss.haggard
20-11-09, 02:55
Gratuity should only be added for large groups.

In the article from Yahoo they explained it was a group of 6.

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 03:11
Yeah, but services aren't free. In some classy restaurants, the waiter will tell you how much to tip. If you have a larger party, then specially you have to tip.

I used to work in a beauty salon years ago, and there were times with the low pay when I used to depend on those tips.

Precisely.

It really depends on the situation, and if gratuity was added and not paid, then it was theft for them not to pay it. People need to realize that they are paying for the service as well, not just the food. Waiters/ waitresses have a very difficult and fast paced job, and they need those tips, especially since their hourly pay is cut so low.

I still think the couple could have just been fined by the police instead of arrested. However, had the couple stolen a $16 item from a store, they would have been arrested, and I see this as no different.

Uzi master
20-11-09, 03:17
I think waiters should be paid a decent pay, not depend on tip's, tip's are (most likley) defined as a REWARD for good service, and should not be expected, like an allowance. arresting someone for not geving a reward is like sueing the olympic commitee for not giving you a gold medal.

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 03:19
Here's a tip (lol), as opposed to having customers pay the tip after the meal, why not just include the fee into the bill (certain % or service amount barred by state law) and we'll call it even. If customers don't want to pay, then they can choose not to eat there.

But that is what happened. Gratuity means the tip was added to the bill. However, since the bill was itemized, the couple was able to see how much they wanted for the tip, and deducted that from the bill. It wasn't a voluntary tipping situation. When gratuity is added, it's thievery not to pay it.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 03:24
I don't think a tip should ever be compulsory, and I wait tables. Yes, its disgusting that in the US, you can get round minimum wage by allowing tips, but that's the problem, not not tipping. You should never expect to be rewarded if you do a crap job- you wouldn't pay a hairdresser if they cut off all your hair when you went in for a dye job would you?

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 03:33
I don't think a tip should ever be compulsory, and I wait tables. Yes, its disgusting that in the US, you can get round minimum wage by allowing tips, but that's the problem, not not tipping. You should never expect to be rewarded if you do a crap job- you wouldn't pay a hairdresser if they cut off all your hair when you went in for a dye job would you?

Gratuity is usually only added if there is a huge group, and I totally understand why they would do that, because it would be unfair for the wait staff to get a crummy tip after serving a group of 20, you know?

I definitely agree that waiters and waitresses should not have a pay cut because of the fact that they get tips, and tips should be a bonus, but I still think gratuity should be added for large groups. It's like paying for a service. If someone fixes your computer, you're paying for their time, and in this case, you not only pay for the food, but you pay for the service as well.

If the waiter/ waitress was terrible, tell the manager and you usually don't have to tip them, unless you're being ridiculous.

Uzi master
20-11-09, 03:40
Gratuity is usually only added if there is a huge group, and I totally understand why they would do that, because it would be unfair for the wait staff to get a crummy tip after serving a group of 20, you know?

I definitely agree that waiters and waitresses should not have a pay cut because of the fact that they get tips, and tips should be a bonus, but I still think gratuity should be added for large groups. It's like paying for a service. If someone fixes your computer, you're paying for their time, and in this case, you not only pay for the food, but you pay for the service as well.

If the waiter/ waitress was terrible, tell the manager and you usually don't have to tip them, unless you're being ridiculous.

one thing, its a restaurant, not a computer repair store when you pay for food you pay for everything, thats what your supposed to do, wait service are hired as part of the bussness and are paid out of the profit meaning the money they pay for food. people go to restaurants for food, not service thats an inclusion that should be expected and large groups are no differentfor a pittuful tip than a small one, theyre lucky to get anny tip at all.

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 03:45
one thing, its a restaurant, not a computer repair store when you pay for food you pay for everything, thats what your supposed to do, wait service are hired as part of the bussness and are paid out of the profit meaning the money they pay for food. people go to restaurants for food, not service thats an inclusion that should be expected and large groups are no differentfor a pittuful tip than a small one, theyre lucky to get anny tip at all.

I disagree. If you go to a nice restaurant, the service isn't some added bonus, you're paying for that as well.

Places that you don't have to pay for service at are buffets and fast food restaurants, because you're helping yourself. A waiter/ waitress is like a paid servant, not a slave. That's one reason why the fancier restaurants costs more, because the food seriously doesn't costs near as much as what you're paying for. You also pay for the service and the environment.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 03:46
Large groups are a different matter completely. It so much hassle doing a big table, and people always seem so much stupider in groups. I've seen it so many times- people can't remember what they ordered, eating other people's food, not listening, people thinking they're more important then everyone else at the table, gah, I could go on. The precision and skill it takes to get 20 meals all served at the same time is huge.

I still don't think the service charge should be compulsory though: if they had a brilliant night, then they shouldn't have a problem, but I don't think not paying it for crap service should be an "official" matter. I've known at work that I wouldn't get the service charge, and I've accepted that- the manager doesn't need to get involved.

Uzi master
20-11-09, 03:48
look, they get there pay and a bonus of tips, it shoud not be mandatory.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 03:49
look, they get there pay and a bonus of tips, it shoud not be mandatory.

I know, I just said that. I was just saying that when there is a big group, "suggesting" the amount they leave might be better then saying nothing at all.

Uzi master
20-11-09, 03:54
it wasn't at you, but I guess but still it seems pushy from a groups perspective

voltz
20-11-09, 03:55
Either way, it's still highway robbery for the rest of us.

Draco
20-11-09, 03:56
What is the incentive to get good service if you get rid of tipping?

Unless you want every restaurant to be McDonald's... yeah... no thanks.

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 03:56
Large groups are a different matter completely. It so much hassle doing a big table, and people always seem so much stupider in groups. I've seen it so many times- people can't remember what they ordered, eating other people's food, not listening, people thinking they're more important then everyone else at the table, gah, I could go on. The precision and skill it takes to get 20 meals all served at the same time is huge.

I still don't think the service charge should be compulsory though: if they had a brilliant night, then they shouldn't have a problem, but I don't think not paying it for crap service should be an "official" matter. I've known at work that I wouldn't get the service charge, and I've accepted that- the manager doesn't need to get involved.


I definitely see your point, and I think in an ideal world, tipping should never be mandatory, but sometimes it has to be. It'd ridiculous how many people refuse to leave a tip, regardless of whether they thought their service was good or not. Some people are just selfish, and because of them, gratuity has to be added in large groups.

Uzi master
20-11-09, 04:01
and what difference does it make to a large group? seriously just because theres a group of friends or family going out they HAVE to pay a tip but small groups shouldn't?

Draco
20-11-09, 04:02
This reminds me of a scene from Reservoir Dogs.

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 04:07
and what difference does it make to a large group? seriously just because theres a group of friends or family going out they HAVE to pay a tip but small groups shouldn't?

Yes.

Have you ever worked at a restaurant before? You have no idea how hectic and chaotic waiting a large group can be. Gratuity is added because of how strenuous it really is. Not to mention, very large groups usually require more than one waiter, and it's not fair to have to split a one person tip between two people.

Gratuity usually is about 15-18%, which isn't bad when you split that between a huge group. To be brutally honest, if people weren't so selfish, the waiters would actually make more money without the gratuity and with individual tips, but they can't rely on people to tip, which is why gratuity is added.

Waiting for a couple of people really isn't difficult, but a huge group, especially when there are kids in the mix, is a very chaotic ordeal.

Catapharact
20-11-09, 04:24
This should be the perfect case study for everyone to learn from. Most high scale resturants usually do require a manditory Gratuity payment and its always a good idea to ask the concierge as to what the resturant's policy is on tipping and gratuity. If the couple in question had booked a placement with this resturant well before, they should have had the common sense to ask basic question about the resturant's policy.

Yes ppl... I always do it... And I always book well in advance ;).

Melonie Tomb Raider
20-11-09, 04:51
This should be the perfect case study for everyone to learn from. Most high scale resturants usually do require a manditory Gratuity payment and its always a good idea to ask the concierge as to what the resturant's policy is on tipping and gratuity. If the couple in question had booked a placement with this resturant well before, they should have had the common sense to ask basic question about the resturant's policy.

Yes ppl... I always do it... And I always book well in advance ;).

Smart man. :tmb:

iamlaracroft
20-11-09, 05:17
I tip like a rockafeller everywhere I go, even when the service is mediocre. It's just something I factor in to dining and eating out. Plus, you're trusting the care and preparation of the food and drink that's about to go into your body to a perfect stranger. I don't get people who don't tip or tip ****ty. They must eat a lot of spit.

rowanlim
20-11-09, 05:49
I guess luckily Malaysians don't like paying extra, other than the service bill & government tax. We assume people who tip are extra rich coz no one tips here :vlol:

I feel tipping should be a voluntary action, isn't the idea of tipping about showing one's gratitude to the organization's services?

Big Matt
20-11-09, 07:37
It sounds to me like a case of fraud or false advertisement of prices on the part of the establishment. Unless it is made clear that a $15.95 steak dinner is actually going to cost $18.82 before tax then the restaurant is stealing from and extorting the customers. They wait until the meal is consumed to tell them that the actual price is higher than what was indicated at the time the meal was ordered. Such acts are illegal in this country and the law should be enforced.

It's like going to the gas station and filling your car up right under the giant billboard that says $2.699 a gallon then going to pay for it and having the cashier tell you that the actual price is three dollars a gallon. Indeed, gas stations are actually more honest than these restaurants because they indicate the price per gallon for full service gasoline as opposed to self service gasoline.

As far as the employees getting paid to do the job they were hired to do, it should be like all other areas of commerce. The employee agrees to do a certain job for their employer in exchange for an agreed upon amount of money. The employer in turn tells the customer how much a good and/or service is going to cost and the customer then agrees to pay for it or take his business elsewhere. Anything else is theft and flat-out dishonesty.

It's not like the customer gets to see two price lists, one for the food and the other for the service. They see one price list: X meal costs X amount. The restaurant staff aren't independent contractors who issue their own separate bill for services rendered. They are an employed component of the primary establishment and are part of it's normal operating costs. With every transaction they make, these establishments are both cheating their employees out of a fair wage and perpetrating fraud upon their customers.

That being said, I do tip. In this day and age, if nothing else, it is simply considered proper manners to do so.

scoopy_loopy
20-11-09, 07:37
Oh thats stupid. What if it had been a tourist couple from somewhere like Australia where you dont even tip people? Tips should always be at the diners discretion :tmb:

lita212
20-11-09, 12:00
Gratuity should only be added for large groups. Adding it to every bill for every customer is potential unfair. Yes it helps make sure the servers get money, but then where is the fairness if all the servers get the same amount in tips when some probably deserve much better and some, in the case of this story, probably don't deserve any tip. I wasn't there to know the situation, but I think the couple had a right to do what they did.

its not anyones problem to tip the sever just because they might be gettin low pay. no one tips supermarket till operators.
at the end of the day they work there n get a wage, they shouldnt rely on other people to help them get more money too.
i work in a nightclub and i cud make a fortune with the amount of drinks people wanna buy me but i actually feel rude and embarresed in taking someones money.i dont rely on people to make my wage higher and neigther should they.
you pay for a meal and you eat it. no one should expect to tip the waiter or waitress. its their job they wanted to do it and they new what the wage was.

Night Crawler
20-11-09, 12:11
I've never tipped anyone in my life and I doubt I ever will. Even in America I'm like "**** off" :) It's cheeky to expect a tip.

Rai
20-11-09, 12:19
its not anyones problem to tip the sever just because they might be gettin low pay. no one tips supermarket till operators.
at the end of the day they work there n get a wage, they shouldnt rely on other people to help them get more money too.
i work in a nightclub and i cud make a fortune with the amount of drinks people wanna buy me but i actually feel rude and embarresed in taking someones money.i dont rely on people to make my wage higher and neigther should they.
you pay for a meal and you eat it. no one should expect to tip the waiter or waitress. its their job they wanted to do it and they new what the wage was.

Exactly. I don't know how it is in America, but in the UK, the price the customers pays is for food and service it's how a restaurant charges. Any tips given is optional if the service is good. Same in a hair salon, the price includes service, but if you like the service you pay a tip. Most places will now give some idea of what percentage of tips to pay - if the customer chooses. I think some restaurants make tipping mandatory, usually the higher end market ones.

The problem is in the wages waiting staff are paid from the employer. If they only pay minimum wage then I guess that is what you expect to get if you take the job. Relying on tips shouldn't be something a waiter/ress expects.

michaeldt
20-11-09, 12:24
I don't see what the big deal with tips are, you get paid anyway, why do you want an extra $3? thats almost nothing.

jjbennett
20-11-09, 12:27
I resent having a service charge added ON TOP of what i've paid. Luckily all the places i've been in i've contested it and said if you hadn't of added it i would have tipped.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 13:27
I don't see what the big deal with tips are, you get paid anyway, why do you want an extra $3? thats almost nothing.

Yeah, but you never have just one table: 3quid 10 times is actually quite a bit.

disneyprincess20
20-11-09, 13:33
I feel for this couple. If the service is bad you shouldn't have to tip. The tips should be earned through performing well, and not given just because there is a waitress there. They should not be a supplement for a minimum wage salary, I think that's so wrong. No other profession gets tips just for doing your daily job.

These were not violent people, the bar tender shold not have called the police.

Draco
20-11-09, 16:03
These were not violent people, the bar tender shold not have called the police.

Violence is not necessary for police involvement.

disneyprincess20
20-11-09, 16:05
Violence is not necessary for police involvement.

But these people were not breaking any law by not paying the gratuity, unless gratuities have been written into law. The police are there to uphold the law.

tombraiderluka
20-11-09, 16:06
The story sounds interesting. Thank god it's optional here. I never leave tips to rude waiters.

Draco
20-11-09, 16:10
But these people were not breaking any law by not paying the gratuity, unless gratuities have been written into law. The police are there to uphold the law.

Regardless of whether the gratuity should be on the bill, they refused to pay the complete bill. That is illegal.

Ora Dagger
20-11-09, 16:24
I feel for this couple. If the service is bad you shouldn't have to tip. The tips should be earned through performing well, and not given just because there is a waitress there. They should not be a supplement for a minimum wage salary, I think that's so wrong. No other profession gets tips just for doing your daily job.

These were not violent people, the bar tender shold not have called the police.

I agree completely! nicely said

Dennis's Mom
20-11-09, 16:30
and what difference does it make to a large group? seriously just because theres a group of friends or family going out they HAVE to pay a tip but small groups shouldn't?

Let's say you have a party of eight come in. The hostess wants to seat them in your section, so they push two of your four tables together to make room for eight.

Large groups take more time. Taking orders, getting drinks, serving food--it's simply more time consuming since everything happens at the same time. You can't take two people's orders, walk away, get drinks for your other table, come back, and take some more orders, serve hot food, etc. See what I mean? Also, they stay longer. Those two tables could have been turned at least twice in the amount of time it takes takes a large party to finish and leave. So if a large party stiffs you or tips you poorly, you've really had a bad night. Gratting large parties gives the server some financial protection. (The flip side is that a group that might have tipped better will only leave the added gratuity.)

In the US, most servers make less than minimum wage with the idea that tips make up the difference. I made $2.01 an hour when minimum wage was $4.25 hr. It generally wasn't a losing proposition though. I usually walked with way more. So while the old "screw tipping and pay minimum wage" argument seems great, it would probably raise the cost of eating out significantly and you would probably see restaurants cut back on staff significantly.

Restaurants in the US that grat large parties always print it only the menu that "Parties over X or more will have an X% gratuity added." When I was a server, I do not believe it was illegal not to pay it, but I have not served in *cough* years. If the service was truly bad, a manager should have been contacted. Stiffing the server only "makes the customer a jerk"; it doesn't communicate the "service was completely sub-par" message.

tampi
20-11-09, 16:39
This is the absurd news of the day to remind us how silly we are.
In my country, every two or three days is/appears one of these. :pi:

iamlaracroft
20-11-09, 16:42
Let's say you have a party of eight come in. The hostess wants to seat them in your section, so they push two of your four tables together to make room for eight.

Large groups take more time. Taking orders, getting drinks, serving food--it's simply more time consuming since everything happens at the same time. You can't take two people's orders, walk away, get drinks for your other table, come back, and take some more orders, serve hot food, etc. See what I mean? Also, they stay longer. Those two tables could have been turned at least twice in the amount of time it takes takes a large party to finish and leave. So if a large party stiffs you or tips you poorly, you've really had a bad night. Gratting large parties gives the server some financial protection. (The flip side is that a group that might have tipped better will only leave the added gratuity.)

In the US, most servers make less than minimum wage with the idea that tips make up the difference. I made $2.01 an hour when minimum wage was $4.25 hr. It generally wasn't a losing proposition though. I usually walked with way more. So while the old "screw tipping and pay minimum wage" argument seems great, it would probably raise the cost of eating out significantly and you would probably see restaurants cut back on staff significantly.

Restaurants in the US that grat large parties always print it only the menu that "Parties over X or more will have an X% gratuity added." When I was a server, I do not believe it was illegal not to pay it, but I have not served in *cough* years. If the service was truly bad, a manager should have been contacted. Stiffing the server only "makes the customer a jerk"; it doesn't communicate the "service was completely sub-par" message.

Precisely. :tmb:

Aranara
20-11-09, 17:33
Who in the world would spend $73 on drinks? :eek:

That's reason enough to be stupid. :pi:

Truly:vlol:

TR FAN 18
20-11-09, 17:38
Wait, what?! Not paying a tip = theft? :confused:
They PAID for the food already so how can they be arrested for THEFT?!

$73 = 44.26! Who spends 44 on DRINKS?!

jackles
20-11-09, 17:46
In our culture tipping is through choice, usually 10- 20% and most people do it if the meal is okay. Some places will add a percentage on for tips but it is optional.

Trigger_happy
20-11-09, 17:56
Wait, what?! Not paying a tip = theft? :confused:
They PAID for the food already so how can they be arrested for THEFT?!

$73 = 44.26! Who spends 44 on DRINKS?!

We had a table of 4 spend nearly 125 on drinks- it wasn't the expensive stuff either, just beer and house wine. They were so drunk by the end.

tomblover
20-11-09, 18:28
We assume people who tip are extra rich coz no one tips here :vlol:
You don't? From what I've seen on my trips y'all tip tonnes? Or am I just looking at all the other tourists? :vlol:

Food over there is delicious though, reason enough to give away half of my wallet. :D

Laralissa
20-11-09, 18:37
Thats just insane, I cant believe they were arrested for that.

My boyfriend and I went to an italian restaurant in Portsmouth in summer and when we got the bill, there was a 'gratuity fee' added to the end. To me, thats' just the height of rudeness! A tip does what it says on the tin, you tip when you get good service. Assuming someone is going to tip you and taking it into your own hands is just downright out of order. As someone said earlier, I would happily have tipped anyway had they not already added it to my bill (out of generousity, fact is, the waiter barely checked on us and didnt particularly give 'great' service) :pi:

*and breathe*

disneyprincess20
20-11-09, 19:39
Regardless of whether the gratuity should be on the bill, they refused to pay the complete bill. That is illegal.

They were disputing the bill, the bar tender should have talked it out with them. He was wrong to call the police. If tips are just given for the service no matter what standard it is, where's the incentive for the staff to try harder? If the bar owner actually paid a decent wage to his staff they wouldn't have to resort to such measures to defend their tips, which by definition they should earn, not just demand of the customers. I still thinlk tips should not be a supplement for wage, and they shouldn't have to pay for bad service.

Draco
20-11-09, 19:50
They were disputing the bill, the bar tender should have talked it out with them. He was wrong to call the police. If tips are just given for the service no matter what standard it is, where's the incentive for the staff to try harder? If the bar owner actually paid a decent wage to his staff they wouldn't have to resort to such measures to defend their tips, which by definition they should earn, not just demand of the customers. I still thinlk tips should not be a supplement for wage, and they shouldn't have to pay for bad service.

I'm not defending the bartender. I am explaining why the police were there at all.

And if neither side was willing to capitulate to the other... what was supposed to happen?

XBOXCroft
20-11-09, 19:52
In The Philippines, our so called tip is "EVAT". Or Extra Value Added Tax. :vlol:
an extra 12%. lol.

But sometimes, we really give off tips to some. Like I give mine to my barber.

But seriously, tipping should be optional.

Lara Croft!
21-11-09, 00:10
Wow, thank gawd tipping is optional in the UK.

Same in Greece

Lemmie
21-11-09, 00:32
Apparently the service was crap; I wouldn't have tipped.

miss.haggard
21-11-09, 00:58
Bad service = bad tip. You dont preform, you dont get paid. Simple.

Tommy123
21-11-09, 01:02
they had bad service

Thorir
21-11-09, 09:46
If I had to pay for someone to carry the food and drinks I've bought, I'd go to the kitchen and get it myself.

The waiters should get payed by the people who employed them.
Not by the customers.

viper456
21-11-09, 09:54
Yes you are paying for the service as as well as the food but if the service is **** then why should you pay? If waitress'/waiters need that tip then they should provide a satisfactory service in return. Same as if the food was rubbish, you would complain about that too.

As if they were arrested for that! Its ridiculous.

xXhayleyroxXx
21-11-09, 10:35
thats absolutely terrible - i hope they get a sincere apology!

Drone
21-11-09, 10:39
tips for the ****e service? are they kidding ....

pEhouse
21-11-09, 12:22
First of all, I can tell not a lot of people have waited in a restaurant before, because most of you seem to have no idea how much work it is. I do work as a waitress and I can say knowing the other side has changed my views entirely.
When you pay a tip, you don't pay for the food. I as a waitress have nothing to do with the food, that's the kitchen's job, all i do is bring it to you, or maybe take it out of the oven sometimes. So if you don't like the food then that's not my fault.

[...]As someone said earlier, I would happily have tipped anyway had they not already added it to my bill (out of generousity, fact is, the waiter barely checked on us and didnt particularly give 'great' service) :pi:

Well, if a restaurant is packed, all those tables take up a lot of your time. Of course, my service is better when I only have 3 costumers in my section, because I do have the time to go over there and check if everything is alright from time to time. But you don't have that kinda time when you have 10 tables to take care of. What a lot of you forget is, not only do I have to take your order, make your drinks and bring your food, but also I have to clean up your mess afterwards! All those things take off all my time to take care of other customers. If I leave a table messy, nobody will come sit in my section and that means no tips.

Now, why do people take crappy jobs with low wages? Because from my own personal experience most waiters are young people, students, who can't work in the morning. Do you really think I would choose to do a job this stressful if I had so many other options?

That being said, tipping is not mandatory in my country, but sometimes I think it should be. Some of you guys have no idea how much work it is to run around a packed restaurant for 6 hours sometimes. How one of you can compare it to a cashier in the supermarket is beyond me.

Your_Envy*
21-11-09, 12:26
Same in Greece

And same in Slovenia. :)

digitizedboy
21-11-09, 12:27
Judging by the crap service, the food must be crap too. Not to mention the possibility of their meals containing saliva, or even worse...

Laralissa
21-11-09, 12:34
Well, if a restaurant is packed, all those tables take up a lot of your time.

It was 1200 and there were only two other couples in the restaurant :wve: There are simply no excuses for bad service in those cases, so Im sorry, but tipping should deffinitely not have been obligatory.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 12:37
Well, you didn't say that in your post, but of course, if there's only 2 tables and the service is crap than it is crap and there is no excuse for that. Anyway though, there is still the cleaning up afterwards, which can be a really disgusting job.
But it gets really annoying in the case the restaurant is packed and everybody wants something from you at the same time, and then people get mad if I don't serve them first. I'm sorry, but I can't split in half but some people certainly seem to expect me to.

its not anyones problem to tip the sever just because they might be gettin low pay. no one tips supermarket till operators.
at the end of the day they work there n get a wage, they shouldnt rely on other people to help them get more money too.
i work in a nightclub and i cud make a fortune with the amount of drinks people wanna buy me but i actually feel rude and embarresed in taking someones money.i dont rely on people to make my wage higher and neigther should they.
you pay for a meal and you eat it. no one should expect to tip the waiter or waitress. its their job they wanted to do it and they new what the wage was.

Btw, this gotta be the most ridiculous statement I ever read. Do you think when your boss pays you he printed the money just for you? It ALWAYS comes from other people, if you get tips or if you get a cheque at the end of the month.

MattTR
21-11-09, 13:52
I always tip 18%, so 16% is a lose for them.. :p

But that's ridiculous, I agree gratuity should only be added for large groups, adding it for a couple doesn't seem logical.

Rileigh
21-11-09, 15:20
This is ridiculous! You shouldn't pay a tip for bad service.

I don't even think it should be added for large groups. I understand they can be a hassle, but you know that's what you're getting yourself in for when you take the job.
Unfortunatly people are selffish, and so some won't tip, but some people are decent and tip a lot, so it sorta balances out.


Large groups take more time. Taking orders, getting drinks, serving food--it's simply more time consuming since everything happens at the same time. You can't take two people's orders, walk away, get drinks for your other table, come back, and take some more orders, serve hot food, etc. See what I mean? Also, they stay longer. Those two tables could have been turned at least twice in the amount of time it takes takes a large party to finish and leave. So if a large party stiffs you or tips you poorly, you've really had a bad night. Gratting large parties gives the server some financial protection. (The flip side is that a group that might have tipped better will only leave the added gratuity.)

That's the luck of the draw, though. My relatives all have a lot more money than me, so if my close family were to go out to restaurant as part of a big group, we wouldn't tip that much because we don't really have the money to spare, which sometimes feels bad if the waiter/waitress has been very good.

So you'd be hard done by with us, but at least we leave some kind of tip.

But last time we went with my grandparents and uncle and aunt, we put 5 into the tip, my uncle and aunt put 5 in, and my grnaddad put in 30! So this dude made 40 off us in tips!!!! which was about as much as the bill cost, minus the wine we got.


Btw, this gotta be the most ridiculous statement I ever read. Do you think when your boss pays you he printed the money just for you? It ALWAYS comes from other people, if you get tips or if you get a cheque at the end of the month.

What you just said is pointless. Why say it?? What she said made sense...you didn't

Admles
21-11-09, 15:40
I'm so glad we don't tip in Australia, sounds too complicated

That said when I was on holiday in Melbourne, I tipped all but one cab driver - just rounded the fare up to the next $5 - because they were all great conversationalists, and I left a tip at one Chinese restaurant I had dinner at because the service was so far above what I expected I was astounded

So, pEhouse, I promise to tip when I'm in your country :D

NemesisX13X
21-11-09, 15:40
Judging by the crap service, the food must be crap too. Not to mention the possibility of their meals containing saliva, or even worse...

Boogers, hair, vomit. etc.

:p

pEhouse
21-11-09, 16:17
What you just said is pointless. Why say it?? What she said made sense...you didn't

How is that pointless? Where you think money comes from? It always comes from customers. When you shop at a grocery store, part of the money you use to pay your food for will be used at the end of the day to pay the employees of the store.

Rileigh
21-11-09, 16:21
How is that pointless? Where you think money comes from? It always comes from customers. When you shop at a grocery store, part of the money you use to pay your food for will be used at the end of the day to pay the employees of the store.
And all that has nothing to do with the topic of tips.

You as the employee gets paid by the employer who gets the money from the customers, sure.
The argument here is about tipping, and how you as the employee shouldn't expect because your employer should pay you for the job you're doing anyway.
A tip is a bonus which decent people will give you if you are doing them a good service.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 16:25
What I said has everything to do with what lita said, it wasn't necessarily about tips. She said that she feels bad taking money from other people. If you say that, you need to work for free. Because you take money from somebody else when you have a job regardless.

Laralissa
21-11-09, 16:29
What I said has everything to do with what lita said, it wasn't necessarily about tips. She said that she feels bad taking money from other people. If you say that, you need to work for free. Because you take money from somebody else when you have a job regardless.

Simply 'taking' and 'earning' are completely different things. If you dont think you have earned the money then you have every right to feel bad about taking money from someone. Being paid to do your job is different.

Rileigh
21-11-09, 16:38
What I said has everything to do with what lita said, it wasn't necessarily about tips. She said that she feels bad taking money from other people. If you say that, you need to work for free. Because you take money from somebody else when you have a job regardless.

Although, with a bit of common sense I would have concluded she meant taking money from someone when she wasn't giving them anything back in return.

Squibbly
21-11-09, 16:43
Tipping is optional here, which I think makes sense. Most people do leave a tip, and if you get rotten service, you're not forced to leave anything. You shouldn't have to pay for bad service.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 16:44
Whoa.. are you seriously telling me I don't earn my money? How am I "taking" money? I did serve you. If it was good or bad, i did my job. Are you saying when I take tips I am stealing from you?

Gettin a cheque at the end of the month to do your job is NOT DIFFERENT! Just that I get most of my money directly from the customer, unlike most other jobs.

Rileigh
21-11-09, 16:51
where do you live?
When you work, you are working for your boss. You may be serving a customer, but the impression you make reflects on your boss and the company/restaraunt. You get paid for doing your job, and if you serve well and are nice to the customer, they may pay you a tip, a thank you for the great service you've been giving us.

Is it different where you live??

Laralissa
21-11-09, 16:51
Whoa.. are you seriously telling me I don't earn my money? How am I "taking" money? I did serve you. If it was good or bad, i did my job. Are you saying when I take tips I am stealing from you?

Gettin a cheque at the end of the month to do your job is NOT DIFFERENT! Just that I get most of my money directly from the customer, unlike most other jobs.

You get a tip if you give good service. For gods sake, are you honestly saying that you tip everyone? Do you go to your local supermarket and tip the cashier? This is no different. Tips are like a gift, you dont just give them out. You work, you get paid by your boss. You shouldnt rely on your customers to give you extras. I dont see whats so hard to understand here.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 17:04
No, no, I get your point. I just don't agree with it.
the problem is, you only know the customers side. Before I worked as a waitress I had the same views. Trust me, now that I work in a restaurant I feel like I have earned every little penny that I get. You just told me I don't deserve the money I make. I feel insulted personally.

I don't know where the habit to give tips in restaurants comes from, but that's just how the job is. I don't care what everyone of you says. I'm taking my tip, and I don't feel bad. I earned that money. Because even if I have a bad day, I have to smile in your face, even if you treat me like a low class citizen, which happens quite a lot. But I have to suck all my personal problems up and kiss your butt so you are happy.

Laralissa
21-11-09, 17:07
No, no, I get your point. I just don't agree with it.
the problem is, you only know the customers side. Before I worked as a waitress I had the same views. Trust me, now that I work in a restaurant I feel like I have earned every little penny that I get. You just told me I don't deserve the money I make. I feel insulted personally.

I don't know where the habit to give tips in restaurants comes from, but that's just how the job is. I don't care what everyone of you says. I'm taking my tip, and I don't feel bad. I earned that money. Because even if I have a bad day, I have to smiley in your face, even if you treat me like a low class citizen, which happens quite a lot. But I have to suck all my personal problems up and kiss your butt so you are happy.

When did I say you dont deserve the money you get? What Im saying is that everyone gets basic pay from their BOSS for the work they do. This is your wage. You know your wage when you start a job, if youre not happy with it, you dont take the job, simple as. Tips are extras. They are no obligatory, and shouldnt be. Tips are meant to be given as a reward for exceptional service. If you get a tip then congratulations, you probably earned it and Im not denying that you did. What I am saying is that to expect tips from everyone for simply doing your job on a daily basis is just plain wrong. I work in a hospital and I get paid by my boss - I dont frown upon the fact that I dont get tipped by my patients because why the hell should I?

pEhouse
21-11-09, 17:14
Are you kidding me? You explained on your first post of this page that "taking" is not "earning", implying that the tip i'm "taking" i haven't "earned" because it is an extra "present".

snork
21-11-09, 17:15
on a sidenote, anyone notice where this took place ? :vlol:


Sorry, I had an extra laugh when I noticed.
Now back to the (really good one) discussion.

Laralissa
21-11-09, 17:17
Are you kidding me? You explained on your first post of this page that "taking" is not "earning", implying that the tip i'm "taking" i haven't "earned" because it is an extra "present".

*sigh* I give up.

Draco
21-11-09, 17:18
My last job exposed me to tipping, even though I personally was not in the 'tip them' category. I was a security officer at a casino, I did receive tips, but I always gave them a chance to change their mind. Did I deserve the tips... I didn't think so, but what matters is they thought so and I was there to serve them.

Do I agree with the mandatory tip idea? Not at all. I don't think table dealers, strippers, food service professionals, or concierge service professionals should be paid less simply because they also get tipped often. It should be a bonus for service above and beyond the norm.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 17:20
Yes, I have to excuse myself from this discussion anyway. My boss just called and told me to come in two hours earlier than I was supposed to because turns out, too many people wanna eat out tonight. Last weekend I was supposed to have the weekend off but had to come in anyway because too many people. Tell me, does that ever happen to the cashier at the grocery store? Totally different jobs that you really can't compare. Good day to you. I'll go steal some money.

Squibbly
21-11-09, 17:26
I think what Laralissa is trying to say is that the wage you receive biweekly (or however often you are paid) is the income you earn for doing your job. Tips, on the other hand, is extra money you are given for providing great service. If the service you give is poor, the customer should not be required to pay extra for it. Makes sense to me.

Laralissa
21-11-09, 17:27
I think what Laralissa is trying to say is that the wage you receive biweekly (or however often you are paid) is the income you earn for doing your job. Tips, on the other hand, is extra money you are given for providing great service. If the service you give is poor, the customer should not be required to pay extra money for it. Makes sense to me.

Exactly :) Im suprised that didnt make sense to pEhouse but what can you do.

Rileigh
21-11-09, 17:27
Yes, I have to excuse myself from this discussion anyway. My boss just called and told me to come in two hours earlier than I was supposed to because turns out, too many people wanna eat out tonight. Last weekend I was supposed to have the weekend off but had to come in anyway because too many people. Tell me, does that ever happen to the cashier at the grocery store? Totally different jobs that you really can't compare. Good day to you. I'll go steal some money.

^^ you're being rather immature about it
If you don't like your job, get a new one.

I've been a waitress before, and I never expected anyone to tip me, so I felt all bubbly and excited everytime someone did, and a little embarrased because it did feel like taking someone's money for simply doing my job. But I never felt bad or resentful towards someone who didn't tip, because we all knew I was just doing my job, doing what I was paid to do.
Sometimes when it was someone really I sweet I told them to keep their money.

Reckless Lara
21-11-09, 18:04
OMG, some people today are just...

Dennis's Mom
21-11-09, 18:29
I think what Laralissa is trying to say is that the wage you receive biweekly (or however often you are paid) is the income you earn for doing your job. Tips, on the other hand, is extra money you are given for providing great service. If the service you give is poor, the customer should not be required to pay extra for it. Makes sense to me.

Your assumption is based on the an incorrect assumption that the server is already being compensated for his work completely by his employer. In the US it is not uncommon to pay less than minimum wage to foodservers with the expectation that tips make up the difference.

In Pennsylvania the minimum wage is $7.15 an hour, however a tipped employee can be paid only $2.38 an hour. In this case, therefore, the waiter is being paid directly and in accordance for his work by the customer.

Now, whether or not tipping is a good economic process, how much and when one should tip or whether this couple should have been arrested, etc., is another discussion. But in the US, tipping is the customer paying the server directly for work, not an "extra."

Squibbly
21-11-09, 18:31
Your assumption is based on the an incorrect assumption that the server is already being compensated for his work completely by his employer. In the US it is not uncommon to pay less than minimum wage to foodservers with the expectation that tips make up the difference.

In Pennsylvania the minimum wage is $7.15 an hour, however a tipped employee can be paid only $2.38 an hour. In this case, therefore, the waiter is being paid directly and in accordance for his work by the customer.

Now, whether or not tipping is a good economic process, how much and when one should tip or whether this couple should have been arrested, etc., is another discussion. But in the US, tipping is the customer paying the server directly for work, not an "extra."

Oh wow, that is terrible. Tips should be, like I said, extra. Not part of your wage. It's not like that here that I've heard of.

Dennis's Mom
21-11-09, 18:52
From my experience, I can say I often made out better with tips than if I'd earned a wage. So while getting stiffed hurt, I still made out OK. It also gave me an opportunity to easily earn extra cash by picking up shifts, something that's tougher to do in a more straight forward pay environment.

Admles
21-11-09, 18:54
I find the fact that they can underpay you and expect it to be made up in tips quite disturbing...... That's so very very wrong

Squibbly
21-11-09, 19:01
I find the fact that they can underpay you and expect it to be made up in tips quite disturbing...... That's so very very wrong

I agree with you.

pEhouse
21-11-09, 22:54
Your assumption is based on the an incorrect assumption that the server is already being compensated for his work completely by his employer. In the US it is not uncommon to pay less than minimum wage to foodservers with the expectation that tips make up the difference.

In Pennsylvania the minimum wage is $7.15 an hour, however a tipped employee can be paid only $2.38 an hour. In this case, therefore, the waiter is being paid directly and in accordance for his work by the customer.

Now, whether or not tipping is a good economic process, how much and when one should tip or whether this couple should have been arrested, etc., is another discussion. But in the US, tipping is the customer paying the server directly for work, not an "extra."


Thank you oh so very much :)

If you find what I said "being immature", then in my defense, I felt really offended by the assumption that I don't deserve tips or maybe even should feel bad for taking them because in generality the boss is responsible for the employee's wages. It's just not always like that working in service.

Oh, and Rileigh.. I never said I don't like my job. Of course there are better ones out there, but as a student who can't work at normal work hours I don't have that many options :wve:

miss.haggard
21-11-09, 23:41
First of all, I can tell not a lot of people have waited in a restaurant before, because most of you seem to have no idea how much work it is...

Worked in a restaurant for 2 years, all tables seating 6+, it was hard, but that doesnt excuse the bad service = no tip. I have walked out of plenty of places in my short lifetime because of terrible service, crowded or not, Ill leave a few bucks on the table to cover my food, but as far as tip goes? Dont even think about it.

To add -

Yes, I have to excuse myself from this discussion anyway. My boss just called and told me to come in two hours earlier than I was supposed to because turns out, too many people wanna eat out tonight. Last weekend I was supposed to have the weekend off but had to come in anyway because too many people. Tell me, does that ever happen to the cashier at the grocery store? Totally different jobs that you really can't compare. Good day to you. I'll go steal some money.

Welcome to the working world. I work at Sherwin Williams Paint, Ive been called in 3 weekends, and multiple times during the week. Where are my tips? I dont get any. No matter how many people come in to buy paint, no matter how many gallons upon gallons I sell, I get not a cent more. Yes, it happens to people that dont serve food.

Love2Raid
22-11-09, 00:22
What the hell?

I thought the whole purpose of a 'tip' was that you can give a bit extra if you feel like the service has been good, but it's never supposed to be obligatory right? :confused:
I really don't get why this is theft...

pEhouse
22-11-09, 06:27
Welcome to the working world. I work at Sherwin Williams Paint, Ive been called in 3 weekends, and multiple times during the week. Where are my tips? I dont get any. No matter how many people come in to buy paint, no matter how many gallons upon gallons I sell, I get not a cent more. Yes, it happens to people that dont serve food.

Maybe you should start as a waitress again.

Honestly, if you don't feel like this is some kind of theft, then maybe you should read Dennis's Mom and my explanations again that waiters get paid directly by the customer, tips is not an "extra". I think you lot just like to bash me because i express my opinion in a very passionate way, but i couldn't care less. Go ahead if it makes you feel better to talk me down and make me look like a bad person.

Dennis's Mom
22-11-09, 14:13
I don't think not tipping is theft. One, it is clearly optional. If it weren't, people would be arrested everyday.

Generally, the nature of the system means a server earns at least minimum wage. So if one table stiffs me, another table's tip could make it up. That's part of the system. A table that stiffs me are jerks, not thieves. (Please refer to my earlier statement. Bad service means COMPLAIN, not stiff the server. You're only making yourselves jerks by stiffing the server, not sending a "bad service" message. ) At any rate, this balance of good tips/bad tips is part of the price you pay for flexible work hours and variable income (i.e., the ability to earn more one day than another.)

In this case, however, it will depend on whether the menu stated a gratuity would be added to the bill for parties of six or more. If so, then the group assumed a liability for it when they sat down. What I don't understand, though, is why a manager would enforce the tip after being told the service was bad. Every manager I worked for would have taken it off the bill and said "tough luck" to me.

miss.haggard
22-11-09, 23:02
Maybe you should start as a waitress again.

Honestly, if you don't feel like this is some kind of theft, then maybe you should read Dennis's Mom and my explanations again that waiters get paid directly by the customer, tips is not an "extra". I think you lot just like to bash me because i express my opinion in a very passionate way, but i couldn't care less. Go ahead if it makes you feel better to talk me down and make me look like a bad person.

I was a waitress in Michigan, I was happy where I was. How on earth was I bashing you? All I was saying is its common to be called into work, no matter what you do. Chill pill, ok?

I understand that some restaurants instate an 18% gratuity for parties over X amount of people, and they print it on the menu. Where these people informed of that? Did it say on their menu that a "tip" was required?

Am I going to get arrested next time I dont tip my hairstylist for ****in' up mah 'do? Hope not, cause its a tip...

irjudd
22-11-09, 23:14
Word to that. If your babealicious red were to turn out clownalicious pink, I'd withhold tippage too.

viper456
22-11-09, 23:17
I still think a tip has to be earned and shouldn't be a given right. I don't mean you have to slave over someone and kiss their ass but just do your job, try your best and be pleasant and 9 times out of 10 you will get your tip. I used to work in a hotel and I got a few tips forced upon me :vlol: One guy was hammered and I took him over to the wedding reception and he actually threw a 10 note at me in the end after I refused to take it lmao. He was like "HERE! JUST TAKE IT!" *thows 10 and runs away*. :D

I never felt like people HAD to tip me, but if they felt that I deserved one (or in that one case I HAD to have one lmao) I wasn't gunna say no. But I was always nice so yeah :D haha

[/end of babble]

miss.haggard
23-11-09, 00:46
Word to that. If your babealicious red were to turn out clownalicious pink, I'd withhold tippage too.

Gurlfran, stylists dont touch mah coluh! Only mah split ends!