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View Full Version : "Illegal Immigrants" proceed to self-deportation


Lizard of Oz
29-11-09, 08:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmtcqFYY1XY&feature=player_embedded


That is something new.

lara c. fan
29-11-09, 08:38
it is indeed :)

Cochrane
29-11-09, 09:07
That reminds me:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/national_language.jpg
(Source http://xkcd.com/84/ )

Mad Tony
29-11-09, 12:18
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.

lara c. fan
29-11-09, 12:34
Exactly, it just makes things more difficult if you can't speak the language.

patriots88888
29-11-09, 13:56
Okay, I can see the direction this thread is going in. At the risk of sounding pompous, I would agree that knowing the native language is practically a mandatory requirement if one chooses to reside there. They don't necessarily have to be a scholar in it, but should at least be proficient enough to communicate effectively.

Dark Lugia 2
29-11-09, 14:07
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.

I agree with this, but it wouldnt be fair because people from the UK, America, etc go on holiday/imigrate to other countries around the world and they dont know said country's language...

TRfan23
29-11-09, 15:41
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.

Have you ever tried learning Arabic? It's very very hard :(

Another thing I figured out is why many foreigners speak English grammar differently then us. Because in their own language the grammar is different, Arabic is a good example. In Arabic you'd say something like "I man" if your naturally English you'd say "I am a man" or "I'm a man". Also there's no capitals in Arabic, all lower case.

Plus the vowels in Arabic aren't included in the Arabic Alphabet.


Arabic Alphabet

ا (Aleph)
ب (Bet)
ث (Taw)
ج (Gimel)
ح (Heth)
د (Dalet)
ر (Resh)

and so on. I'm not typing anymore as it's so irritating when using the keyboard to type Arabic. Stupid QWERTY :(

So what I'm trying to say is, imagine an Arab trying to learn good English. Or if someone had a child who was born with an illness and can only get help from developed countries.

Yes I know this thread's about illegal immigrants, that's wrong yes...

Cochrane
29-11-09, 18:15
The language issue is actually surprisingly complex when you look at it. Yes, it is a good idea to know a country's language. However, in the high tech sector, if you want to hire an American for a job in Germany, you really can't expect them to learn German (unless they are crazy). They'd just pick a job in a different country without such a requirement. Those actually desperate to get here to learn the language might not always be not the kind of people you really want the most.

It's also worth pointing out that due to tourism and increased cross-border cooperation, being open to other languages is worthwhile even ignoring any immigration issues.

Mona Sax
29-11-09, 18:15
I think what is important when you become want to be a member of any society - often synonymous with a country, but not necessarily - is that you try to fit in and, above all, that you respect their rules. This goes for everybody, people who were born in that society as well as people who joined it at a later moment in their life. What your personal life looks like, what you believe in, where you come from, who you are - doesn't matter. IMO, you can't expect an immigrant to speak a new language perfectly from day one, but you can expect them to try and learn it well enough to interact with other people in their society. Judging from my experience, immigrants are often more motivated to fit in and more knowledgeable about their new country than most natives.

It's about respect, really, respect for all ways of life.

SamReeves
29-11-09, 18:23
Speak English or GTFO. LOL.

Quasimodo
29-11-09, 18:29
That reminds me:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/national_language.jpg
(Source http://xkcd.com/84/ )

That's like saying people in Mexico should be speaking Aztec. I think moves like that are a cheap way to distract from the issue.

Mad Tony
29-11-09, 18:31
That's like saying people in Mexico should be speaking Aztec. I think moves like that are a cheap way to distract from the issue.I agree. It's like saying I should be speaking Gaelic right now. :p

Mona Sax
29-11-09, 19:01
That's like saying people in Mexico should be speaking Aztec. I think moves like that are a cheap way to distract from the issue.
Partly, yes. But it's good to remember that America is a nation of immigrants once in a while, nonetheless. Recent immigrants, even.

jackles
29-11-09, 19:37
Partly, yes. But it's good to remember that America is a nation of immigrants once in a while, nonetheless. Recent immigrants, even.


:tmb:


I have American 'cousins' who are related to my great grandfather..and my own grandad went to Canada in 1922 (he was 16 and travelled with his older brother) He even had an canadian passport! He did come back after a few years though. Plus I have aussie connections....though I guess my ancestor who was transported to van diemans land kinda didn't want to emigrate! ;)

Dennis's Mom
29-11-09, 20:22
Partly, yes. But it's good to remember that America is a nation of immigrants once in a while, nonetheless. Recent immigrants, even.

America has always been a nation of immigrants. Even the Native Americans crossed the Bering Straight according to anthropological evidence. I don't bring this up to belittle anyone or anything, merely pointing out that we are all immigrants of one sort or another.

Regardless of one's culture or history though, a functioning understanding of the language is important. People would laugh me off the face of the earth if I were to emigrate to another country and expect everyone to cater to my language limitations.

Death Mask
29-11-09, 20:26
That guy is an idiot, no one has more right to live in the U.S. than Europeans, it's true that America is not their native land but they're the ones who built America and made it a country, and thanks to them America is a superpower. If going by his logic I guess the Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Indians, Asians etc should get out of America as well?

Mona Sax
29-11-09, 20:32
America has always been a nation of immigrants. Even the Native Americans crossed the Bering Straight according to anthropological evidence. I don't bring this up to belittle anyone or anything, merely pointing out that we are all immigrants of one sort or another.

Regardless of one's culture or history though, a functioning understanding of the language is important. People would laugh me off the face of the earth if I were to emigrate to another country and expect everyone to cater to my language limitations.
Agreed, absolutely. We're originally all from Africa, anyway - or what we know as Africa today. Which is why I think this 'we here, you there' mindset is pointless. Nobody has a better right to live in any given country than anybody else.

voltz
29-11-09, 21:08
I often wondered what north America would be like in this day and age if none of us ever discovered it.

Quasimodo
29-11-09, 21:11
I often wondered what north America would be like in this day and age if none of us ever discovered it.

I'm sure somebody would have tried to colonize it.

CerebralAssassin
29-11-09, 21:21
I often wondered what north America would be like in this day and age if none of us ever discovered it.

would've been full of casinos

EmeraldFields
29-11-09, 21:27
would've been full of casinos

:vlol:

voltz
29-11-09, 22:50
I don't doubt that one bit. :pi:

Death Mask
02-12-09, 09:54
Agreed, absolutely. We're originally all from Africa, anyway - or what we know as Africa today. Which is why I think this 'we here, you there' mindset is pointless. Nobody has a better right to live in any given country than anybody else.
This is pretty irrelevant, we also came from the ocean if you go back far enough, are we supposed to embrace our fish cousins as well?
I believe the people who founded and built their countries are the ones who have the absolute right over anyone else to live in their respective countries, it's their choice if they want to let immigrants in, but they sure shouldn't have any obligation to do so.

Cochrane
02-12-09, 09:59
This is pretty irrelevant, we also came from the ocean if you go back far enough, are we supposed to embrace our fish cousins as well?
I believe the people who founded and built their countries are the ones who have the absolute right over anyone else to live in their respective countries, it's their choice if they want to let immigrants in, but they sure shouldn't have any obligation to do so.

The people who founded the US are all dead. As for the people who built it and made it what it was today, those were partly the descendants of the founders, but mainly immigrants.

Forwen
02-12-09, 10:19
Most young nations are originally welcoming of immigrants. *shrug* America's just ageing.

Johnnay
02-12-09, 11:22
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.


and

its the same here in Australia

patriots88888
02-12-09, 12:29
Most young nations are originally welcoming of immigrants. *shrug* America's just ageing.

Let's not kid ourselves. This isn't as much about politics as it is about economics. It only stands to reason when considering that when the US was a much younger nation it had far more economic opportunities than what we see today. Once again (and not surprisingly) it's all about the money.

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 12:38
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.
Ouch.. so because I do not speak Dutch, I shouldn't be allowed to live in the Netherlands?
Of course I am going to learn it, but it is just something that I love about europe in general. You are free to move from one country to another, get a job and go to a school there. Nothing is stopping you.

Andyroo
02-12-09, 13:06
All the people I know who have been overseas for a holiday have learned the language before they went. And that was just for a few month holiday.

If people will can learn a language just for a holiday, than immigrants should learn the language of where they are going to be living.

Another Lara
02-12-09, 13:18
Ouch.. so because I do not speak Dutch, I shouldn't be allowed to live in the Netherlands?
Of course I am going to learn it, but it is just something that I love about europe in general. You are free to move from one country to another, get a job and go to a school there. Nothing is stopping you.

I think (hope) what Mad Tony is implying is due to the way the immigrant issue has got so out of hand in the UK. As in we welcome these people into our country and then they don't bother to learn English just expect the government to pay for them to live here.
I have no problem with immigrants as long as they don't demand something for nothing, which unfortunately, our government seems very happy to let continue right now! :mad:

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 13:28
I think (hope) what Mad Tony is implying is due to the way the immigrant issue has got so out of hand in the UK. As in we welcome these people into our country and then they don't bother to learn English just expect the government to pay for them to live here.
I have no problem with immigrants as long as they don't demand something for nothing, which unfortunately, our government seems very happy to let continue right now! :mad:
I personally cannot get anything from here at the moment, so perhaps you should implement the same system as here. :) I am forced to study the language by myself, not by the government. If I want to get a proper job that is. They do not give any aid for people who have no knowledge of the language and who do not wish to work.

But I still am free to live here no matter what and English is the only language I need to know now.

Andyroo
02-12-09, 13:32
As in we welcome these people into our country and then they don't bother to learn English just expect the government to pay for them to live here.
I have no problem with immigrants as long as they don't demand something for nothing, which unfortunately, our government seems very happy to let continue right now! :mad:

Same here with Illegals. They come in month after month by the boatload, calling themselves 'asylum seekers' and get handed everything they want. "Here you go, you poor poor refugees, you don't need to work to get a house in this country, we'll give ya one right now."

I tell ya, you won't find any immigrants living on the streets of Australia, only Australians.

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 13:49
Same here with Illegals. They come in month after month by the boatload, calling themselves 'asylum seekers' and get handed everything they want. "Here you go, you poor poor refugees, you don't need to work to get a house in this country, we'll give ya one right now."

I tell ya, you won't find any immigrants living on the streets of Australia, only Australians.
Same in Finland for gypsies (not to offend anyone, I am partly gypsy myself). They get large houses for their large families and manage to get luxury cars from the money they get from the goverment. I barely got enough money to support myself as a student (student grant, loan and social security) and if I wanted any luxuries I would've had to get a part time job.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 14:01
Ouch.. so because I do not speak Dutch, I shouldn't be allowed to live in the Netherlands?
Of course I am going to learn it, but it is just something that I love about europe in general. You are free to move from one country to another, get a job and go to a school there. Nothing is stopping you.I don't think so anyway.

That's one of the things I hate about Europe. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that I could just go and move to Germany (for example), despite the fact that I have absolutely no knowledge of German language or customs.

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 14:43
I don't think so anyway.

That's one of the things I hate about Europe. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that I could just go and move to Germany (for example), despite the fact that I have absolutely no knowledge of German language or customs.
Why? You love the states, right? You love the freedom there, right? Isn't it freedom to be able to move from one country to another without any trouble? Why take that freedom away?
So now I have only two options according to you. Either learn dutch, get a job and be a proper citizen or just go back to finland and ditch my family here.

Cochrane
02-12-09, 14:44
I don't think so anyway.

That's one of the things I hate about Europe. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that I could just go and move to Germany (for example), despite the fact that I have absolutely no knowledge of German language or customs.

I don't. If you feel like it, you're welcome! We have way too few young people in the country.

Edit to add: I don't guess you actually do want to live here, but there's a bigger picture you're apparently missing. We're all european, and the biggest cultural difference between us, apart from language, is the kind of christian church the majority beliefs in and the colors of highway signs. And as more and more people learn english, the language hurdle is getting drastically lowered.

Europe is more diverse than, say, the United States, that much is true. But through our common long history, we are also closely linked. In fact, the modern idea of sovereign independent notions is rather new (as you can see by the fact that the british royal family has close ties to Hanover while the dutch one has close ties to Brandenburg, just as two random examples).

So what do we gain by holding true to these ideas, and what do we gain instead if we let go of them? Open borders, common currency and living wherever we want has fueled economic growth a lot. We would, for example, no longer produce any large airplanes if it weren't for Airbus and EADS, and the european unification that helped bring them in the first place.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 15:00
Why? You love the states, right? You love the freedom there, right? Isn't it freedom to be able to move from one country to another without any trouble? Why take that freedom away?
So now I have only two options according to you. Either learn dutch, get a job and be a proper citizen or just go back to finland and ditch my family here.Yeah, but what's that got to do with it?

Pretty much, since Dutch is the language of the Netherlands. Of course this is my opinion and obviously not that of the Dutch government.

I don't. If you feel like it, you're welcome! We have way too few young people in the country.

Edit to add: I don't guess you actually do want to live here, but there's a bigger picture you're apparently missing. We're all european, and the biggest cultural difference between us, apart from language, is the kind of christian church the majority beliefs in and the colors of highway signs. And as more and more people learn english, the language hurdle is getting drastically lowered.

Europe is more diverse than, say, the United States, that much is true. But through our common long history, we are also closely linked. In fact, the modern idea of sovereign independent notions is rather new (as you can see by the fact that the british royal family has close ties to Hanover while the dutch one has close ties to Brandenburg, just as two random examples).

So what do we gain by holding true to these ideas, and what do we gain instead if we let go of them? Open borders, common currency and living wherever we want has fueled economic growth a lot. We would, for example, no longer produce any large airplanes if it weren't for Airbus and EADS, and the european unification that helped bring them in the first place.Excuse me, but I'm not European. :D What have I told you about calling me that!? :p

Open borders and a common currency? No thanks. It's just one step closer to a European super-state where members are merely states and part of a European federal government. Independence FTW.

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 15:06
You are European, perhaps not by the political ideals, but by land. Not in land europe, but you are not a single continent either.

And nice to know that I by your standards shouldnt be allowed to live with my future husband.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 15:08
You are European, perhaps not by the political ideals, but by land. Not in land europe, but you are not a single continent either.

And nice to know that I by your standards shouldnt be allowed to live with my future husband.I'm British. Nothing more, nothing less. :)

Don't try and make me feel guilty for my views. It's not unreasonable to believe you should have to learn the language of the country before living there.

MiCkiZ88
02-12-09, 15:36
I'm British. Nothing more, nothing less. :)

Don't try and make me feel guilty for my views. It's not unreasonable to believe you should have to learn the language of the country before living there.
And I am Finnish, aplying for double nationality in four years. I have my time to learn the language.
Some people have their reasons for moving, and I moved here to study internationally, in english. Should I have gone to UK instead?

disneyprincess20
02-12-09, 15:49
It's not unreasonable to believe you should have to learn the language of the country before living there.

Well, it is a little. Can't people learn the language whilst living there?

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 15:50
And I am Finnish, aplying for double nationality in four years. I have my time to learn the language.
Some people have their reasons for moving, and I moved here to study internationally, in english. Should I have gone to UK instead?That's your choice to make, not mine.

@disneyprincess20: Depends how long it takes really.

disneyprincess20
02-12-09, 15:56
Depends how long it takes really.

Every language takes a long time to learn. Companies send people out to foreign countries all the time; how much would it cost the economy if they had to wait until each employee being send overseas became fluent? You can manage in another country without being fluent.

Whilst I agree that effort should be made to learn the language, it's a bit extreme to say they must be fluent before they move out there.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 16:01
Oh no, I never said I think they should be fluent, just have an understanding of the language.

Cochrane
02-12-09, 16:02
Excuse me, but I'm not European. :D What have I told you about calling me that!? :p
You have a certain habit of redefining things if reality does not fit your views, and it's getting annoying at times. Of course you're European. That's not something you get to choose, that's a geographic fact. Whether that implies the need for close cooperation with other Europeans or whether the cultural similarities among our continent are really as large as some (i.e. I) say they are is something you can debate for as long as you like, but if you're sitting on the British Isles then you're sitting in Europe.

Open borders and a common currency? No thanks. It's just one step closer to a European super-state where members are merely states and part of a European federal government. Independence FTW.
And as I already said: What the hell is so bad about that, in general (that Brussels is doing stuff just plain wrong at times is obvious, but so do all other governments as well)?

Why do you need your independences so much? Is it because of practical issues? Then you may have a point, depending on what the issues are. But if it's just because "I'm british and that means I'm special", then that's a view I have some problem calling reasonable.

disneyprincess20
02-12-09, 16:06
Oh no, I never said I think they should be fluent, just have an understanding of the language.

But how do you define understanding? Knowing basic grammar without any volcabulary, knowing lots fo volcabulary (which I've found only rarely helps in another country) or just understanding that they speak a different language, without knowing a single word?

For all the study possible, it's never quite as good as learning the language in situ. This takes time, and I agree that some effort should be made to learn some before you get there, but it's a little unreasonable to be negaitve towards someone who is learning as they go. It's not like a whole new language comes easily, even if it is another European one.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 16:17
You have a certain habit of redefining things if reality does not fit your views, and it's getting annoying at times. Of course you're European. That's not something you get to choose, that's a geographic fact. Whether that implies the need for close cooperation with other Europeans or whether the cultural similarities among our continent are really as large as some (i.e. I) say they are is something you can debate for as long as you like, but if you're sitting on the British Isles then you're sitting in Europe.I'm British, not European. End of. Call me that word if you like, but I'm British.

And as I already said: What the hell is so bad about that, in general (that Brussels is doing stuff just plain wrong at times is obvious, but so do all other governments as well)?

Why do you need your independences so much? Is it because of practical issues? Then you may have a point, depending on what the issues are. But if it's just because "I'm british and that means I'm special", then that's a view I have some problem calling reasonable.Practical issues mainly. Europeans have no right to meddle in the internal affairs of Britain and vice versa. It's not just that though. Giving up our independence (which could be argued we don't really have now anyway) would also be giving up some of our identity. Many people in this country (myself included) will not give up our independence and freedom to the EUSSR without a fight.

But how do you define understanding? Knowing basic grammar without any volcabulary, knowing lots fo volcabulary (which I've found only rarely helps in another country) or just understanding that they speak a different language, without knowing a single word?

For all the study possible, it's never quite as good as learning the language in situ. This takes time, and I agree that some effort should be made to learn some before you get there, but it's a little unreasonable to be negaitve towards someone who is learning as they go. It's not like a whole new language comes easily, even if it is another European one.By basic understanding I meant that you are able to communicate with the natives of that country and so on. I don't really see anything wrong with moving to a country and learning the language there, it's moving to another country and not learning the language they speak at all I have a problem with.

Cochrane
02-12-09, 16:52
I'm British, not European. End of. Call me that word if you like, but I'm British.
Ah, that makes perfect sense. I'm fully convinced now.

Practical issues mainly.
Such as?

Europeans have no right to meddle in the internal affairs of Britain and vice versa. It's not just that though. Giving up our independence (which could be argued we don't really have now anyway) would also be giving up some of our identity. Many people in this country (myself included) will not give up our independence and freedom to the EUSSR without a fight.
My, my, EUSSR, aren't we feeling clever today…

As for your cultural identity, that is certainly a true point, but abstaining from the EU won't help either. The real danger is the influence of the US, Hollywood and the like. Nobody will force all of you to speak french all of a sudden.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 17:04
Such as?Pretty much any domestic issue around.

As for my EUSSR quip, this picture just says it all

http://fast1.onesite.com/my.telegraph.co.uk/user/thomashogg/cd3dc0fe124bae095189d767afce5a70.jpg

Cochrane
02-12-09, 17:40
Pretty much any domestic issue around.
I can reply to you saying "Such as?" all day long, but I don't think it'll lead to true happiness for either of us. Do you have any specific examples, or don't you?

As for my EUSSR quip, this picture just says it all

http://fast1.onesite.com/my.telegraph.co.uk/user/thomashogg/cd3dc0fe124bae095189d767afce5a70.jpg
Yeah… I think you already know that I don't find this convincing, as it just picks out a few isolated points, twists them until they fit and then puts them next to each other without context, so I don't think it's necessary to mention that.

I do wonder in particular about the "expansion through bullying", though. Which are the countries that have joined the EU against their will? That it's not popular now in some areas does not mean that the governments who were responsible for the decision back then did not see it as a good idea.

Zebra
02-12-09, 17:47
America has always been a nation of immigrants. Even the Native Americans crossed the Bering Straight according to anthropological evidence. I don't bring this up to belittle anyone or anything, merely pointing out that we are all immigrants of one sort or another.


Yep. Except the people in some African countries. That's where the very first humans lived.

Mona Sax
02-12-09, 17:56
This is pretty irrelevant, we also came from the ocean if you go back far enough, are we supposed to embrace our fish cousins as well?
I believe the people who founded and built their countries are the ones who have the absolute right over anyone else to live in their respective countries, it's their choice if they want to let immigrants in, but they sure shouldn't have any obligation to do so.
Embrace? No. Understand where you come from? Yes.

By the way, if your argument were true, Native Americans could just kick you out of their country. Sure they are not the founders of the US, but they populated the continent and developed social structures millennia before Columbus or Cortés were born. Neither the Spanish nor the British asked them if they were allowed to set foot on American soil.

As I mentioned before, people should respect the rules of the society they wish to live in. What I don't see is why somebody's nationality should make any difference.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 18:20
I can reply to you saying "Such as?" all day long, but I don't think it'll lead to true happiness for either of us. Do you have any specific examples, or don't you?Really, I can't think of any domestic issue where it wouldn't be inappropriate for somebody outside the UK to have a say on.

Yeah… I think you already know that I don't find this convincing, as it just picks out a few isolated points, twists them until they fit and then puts them next to each other without context, so I don't think it's necessary to mention that.

I do wonder in particular about the "expansion through bullying", though. Which are the countries that have joined the EU against their will? That it's not popular now in some areas does not mean that the governments who were responsible for the decision back then did not see it as a good idea.The UK adopting the Lisbon treaty is certainly against our will. I can't give any examples of countries joining the EU against their will though. Unfortunately I have to say our own leaders are mainly responsible for submitting us to this dictatorship.

interstellardave
02-12-09, 19:07
Pretty much any domestic issue around.

As for my EUSSR quip, this picture just says it all

http://fast1.onesite.com/my.telegraph.co.uk/user/thomashogg/cd3dc0fe124bae095189d767afce5a70.jpg

I'm no expert on the European Union, so you and Cochran are way ahead of me... HOWEVER... If the first 2 bullet points are correct that's all I need to see to know that the European Union is a bad idea. Now those two points may be inaccurate... but, if not, I'd reject the whole thing right there... no need to bicker about any details regarding motives, plans, etc.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 19:42
I'm no expert on the European Union, so you and Cochran are way ahead of me... HOWEVER... If the first 2 bullet points are correct that's all I need to see to know that the European Union is a bad idea. Now those two points may be inaccurate... but, if not, I'd reject the whole thing right there... no need to bicker about any details regarding motives, plans, etc.I don't think they're far from the truth. Just recently a new "EU president" was elected (or rather, chosen). There was no massive election for it, this guy was just chosen by a bunch of submissive undemocratic snobs in the EU. The mere existence of the EU is bad enough, but it's also incredibly undemocratic.

Johnnay
02-12-09, 19:48
I don't think they're far from the truth. Just recently a new "EU president" was elected (or rather, chosen). There was no massive election for it, this guy was just chosen by a bunch of submissive undemocratic snobs in the EU. The mere existence of the EU is bad enough, but it's also incredibly undemocratic.

He was chosen exclusively to prevent Turkeys chances of joining the EU:D

And for the EU I would have no idea if the Lisbon Treaty will be good enough to unite the EU after heaps of rejections and revivals of the treaty:)

Lemmie
02-12-09, 23:17
Since this discussion is leading once again towards one about Europe and the European Union, I'll say that I'm proud to be Scottish, British and European.

If people will can learn a language just for a holiday, than immigrants should learn the language of where they are going to be living.

The problem with that is that there are generally few foreign language programmes available to economic migrants or asylum seekers, certainly not ones which cost a substantial amount of money.

EDIT: Also, realistically, I can't imagine immigrants actively refusing to learn the language of a country they've moved to. How else will they be able to take advantage of all the benefits that they moved for?

One problem is that they are constantly trying to find work once they come, and if they do find work they will be working hours which will not be conducive to learning a language. This is one of the reasons that the children of economic migrants and asylum seekers (if they are educated in their new country) tend to pick up the language of the new country faster than their parents.

Also, here's an article in the Washington Post about the new immigration laws in Switzerland - click. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/24/AR2006092400296.html) These are being called racist and discriminatory.

Mad Tony
02-12-09, 23:54
He was chosen exclusively to prevent Turkeys chances of joining the EU:D

And for the EU I would have no idea if the Lisbon Treaty will be good enough to unite the EU after heaps of rejections and revivals of the treaty:)No offense to any Turkish people here, but at the current time I hope Turkey doesn't become an EU member state. As far as I know their human rights record is pretty poor and does not fall in line with EU policy. Another thing is that it would automatically mean more immigrants flowing into this country. It's nothing personal, but we're kind of full and immigrants often choose the UK over other countries because of our overly-leniant benefit system.

Johnnay
03-12-09, 01:02
No offense to any Turkish people here, but at the current time I hope Turkey doesn't become an EU member state. As far as I know their human rights record is pretty poor and does not fall in line with EU policy. Another thing is that it would automatically mean more immigrants flowing into this country. It's nothing personal, but we're kind of full and immigrants often choose the UK over other countries because of our overly-leniant benefit system.

its not just human rights for Turkey( aimed mainly at Christians)

they took Christian lands from Armenians and Greeks, they lie, lie lie and the mass murders they did a long time ago against Christians too.

if they didnt do all these things( or even migrate to the region via Central Asia) it would be a different story

larafan25
03-12-09, 01:30
^^

Why shouldn't immigrants to America have to learn English? Same goes for here actually. If you want to live here but you can't speak the language - you shouldn't be allowed to live here.

o.O

honestly people should be allowed to live anywhere they want.

and if you cannot speak the language of the location you will try to learn it.

Ward Dragon
03-12-09, 02:48
Also, realistically, I can't imagine immigrants actively refusing to learn the language of a country they've moved to. How else will they be able to take advantage of all the benefits that they moved for?

The US government offers every application in pretty much every language in the world. It's possible for someone to get a driver's license without speaking a word of English here. In the public schools, a lot of the parents don't speak any English either, so the school has to have translators to relay important messages. If everything they need is offered in their native language, then there's no real incentive to learn English unless they are very conscientious and want to have the opportunity to talk to more people and apply for more advanced jobs.

Ikas90
03-12-09, 03:57
I don't believe "illegal immigration" should be enforced, or for that matter, even be a term.

I think people should be allowed to live wherever they bloomin' want, provided that they can afford to live there; meaning they'll need to be able to speak the language in order to find a job.

Mad Tony
03-12-09, 07:18
I fail to see why everyone should just "be able to live wherever they want". There's gotta be rules and restrictions, especially in Britain's case. Immigration is something that should rarely be denied (although I think it could apply to Britain soon) but it should always be controlled and monitored. This is why I don't like the EU's open borders.