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Catracoth
22-12-09, 01:39
A friend of mine was reading an eBook the other day - "The Art of Manliness' Guide to Being a Gentleman in 2008" - and after we discussed it, it got me wondering...how many chivalric/gentlemanly traditions (for lack of a better word) are still in use today? Are we still gentlemen in this day and age? Do women find chivalric conduct demeaning?

I always try to be gentlemanly, if only for politeness - I'll hold doors open, offer my coat, and so on. The way I see it, it's a case of "do unto others" - if you respect other people, others will respect you. I don't think manners are outdated.

Another friend whom I discussed this with, a female, says that she doesn't really feel a need for men to throw down their leather jacket in mud so the woman doesn't ruin her shoes--all she asks for is that you hold the door if you see her coming. Some etiquette if you ask me is suitable for all genders.

How about you? Do you feel the age of opening car doors for your paramour has gone? Do you strive for etiquette perfection? Do you, the women and ladies of the forum, enjoy being put on this kind of pedestal?

After you ;).

trXD
22-12-09, 01:50
Its hard to say how many of those i do, i dont really think about it. I hold doors open for people and generally try to be polite. If someone was shivering in the cold i would probably give them my jacket. This is all regardless of gender.

"after you" is a bit retarded, as if entering a room half a second before someone else is an advantage.

Catapharact
22-12-09, 02:24
Being a Gentleman? Most men these days need to gain a pair of gonads and stop worrying about liability issues before they can even begin to be men let alone gentlemen.

TRUE STORY (Place and the people involved shall not be mentioned for privacy purposes.)

Me and a business partner were returning back to our hotel one night, when we saw this young blonde staggering on the sidewalk; Obviously she was drunk as a skunk! On top of that, it was cold rainy night and all she had on was a cocktail dress. I told my friend to go on ahead without me while I talked with her to get an idea as to what's going on. Apparently she lost the keys to her condo and there was no one home. She also lost her ID and she couldn't get a hold of a friend or anyone that could confirm her identity to the security officer at her building. Furthermore, she was not allowed to sleep on the condo lounge (obviously) so she went off on the street. She was drenched and not one idiot for three blocks tried to assist her! I doubt the liablity of assault or sexual harrasment comes to mind when ANYONE is walking in the rain with no jacket, and drunk out their mind. So I gave her my coat, escorted her to a hotel, got her a room, gave her my number and told her to contact me first thing the next morning to let me know that everything is OK. After arranging everything with the staff and getting a hug and errr... friendly peck, I got outta there. I got a call from her the next day and was so thankful for everything...

And people ask me as to why I don't consume alcohol.

Anyway, the whole event IMO proved out to be another humorous little ploy by God (Or a random ironic event, if you so happen to be an atheist) since the blonde happened to be the daughter of a local real estate developer.

Business partnerships... Always start off in the most interesting of circumstances.

AmericanAssassin
22-12-09, 02:25
I'm always very respectful of women. I open doors for them. I often stand when one is preparing to sit down at the dinner table. All of that stuff. If any women find that demeaning, they can get over themselves. :rolleyes:

I'd say the typical guy isn't like that at all. It's rude, if you ask me. ;)

EmeraldFields
22-12-09, 02:33
I just try to be respectful to everyone.

I alway hold the door open for people if I see them coming or if somebody drops something I'll stop to help them pick it up.

lararoxs
22-12-09, 02:51
TRUE STORY (Place and the people involved shall not be mentioned for privacy purposes.)

Me and a business partner were returning back to our hotel one night, when we saw this young blonde staggering on the sidewalk; Obviously she was drunk as a skunk! On top of that, it was cold rainy night and all she had on was a cocktail dress. I told my friend to go on ahead without me while I talked with her to get an idea as to what's going on. Apparently she lost the keys to her condo and there was no one home. She also lost her ID and she couldn't get a hold of a friend or anyone that could confirm her identity to the security officer at her building. Furthermore, she was not allowed to sleep on the condo lounge (obviously) so she went off on the street. She was drenched and not one idiot for three blocks tried to assit her! I doubt the liablity of assault or sexual harrasment comes to mind when ANYONE is walking in the rain with no jacket, and drunk out their mind. So I gave her my coat, escorted her to a hotel, got her a room, gave her my number and told her to contact me first thing tomorrow morning to let me know that everything is OK. After arranging everything with the staff and getting a hug and errr... friendly peck, I got outta there. I got a call from her the next day and was so thankful for everything...



I honestly respect you for that as I'm almost certain that for 99% of the time people would have just walked past her and ignored her. That was an extremely sensible and compassionate thing to do. I'm glad to hear that you did get a call back and the thanks you deserved!:tmb:


Well, as a female I am a bit of a sucker for a gentleman but I wouldn't want them to treat me like royalty, of course if that is how an individual was raised you can't put them down for it as it is force of habit.

I would however, expect someone to hold a door open if say, I was carrying something and couldn't possibly open the door for him/ her to open it for me out of manners, otherwise it is just plain rude to walk on while the poor person is left there looking like a lemon, trying to juggle opening the door and keeping the object/s in their hands.
As for a man doing it generally, I would find it rather flattering and a positive thing to do. It shows that they are thinking of you.

I can't really judge as to whether the majority of the population is lacking the trait of a gentleman but I think it is something to be proud of, I don;t think that a girl should complain after a date by saying 'He kept holding doors open for me and walked me to my car' etc. There is nothing attractive for the girl if that's the case.

I don't think a man being gentlemanly is demoralising for a woman, or at least it shouldn't be - yes, I know that whole independent thing but I'd honestly praise a guy for being gentlemanly.

I don't know about anyone else but that is my view on it all. It's strange but I was talking about it before and a friend of mine was taking a girl out and as she is 16 he first asked the girls' parents if it was OK and then assured them that she wouldn't be back too late. I think it's a very sweet quality to have!:tmb:

scoopy_loopy
22-12-09, 04:39
I dont see it as being "gentlemanly" these days... as women are just as likely to hold a door open for a me as I am for them. Being a "gentleman" is so oldfashioned - people should be kind and polite - simple as that :)

Ada the Mental
22-12-09, 07:16
I dont see it as being "gentlemanly" these days... as women are just as likely to hold a door open for a me as I am for them. Being a "gentleman" is so oldfashioned - people should be kind and polite - simple as that :)

This. IMHO, you should be polite and respectful to everyone around you, I don't see why women should get extra special treatment.

Punaxe
22-12-09, 12:19
Does the book say anything about the difference between men and women?

I would say I am a gentleman up to a reasonable point, and this point is the same for men and women. If I see a man struggling with his luggage I'd offer to help just as easily as if it were a woman. I can somewhat see the point of women being offended by overly chivalrous behaviour, because a lot of it is absolutely unnecessary and unbalanced in terms of effort for the "knight"/"lady". I'm not going to carry someone over a lake if this person could just as easily walk around it; just as easily being the key here. I will help someone when I see it is helpful, and the alternative for the other person to do it himself is relatively problematic.

LightningRider
22-12-09, 12:22
I do it for respect. If you want respect, be respectful. I don't really have much on the Gentlemen Conduct, even if they try to enforce that in school. I've learned to get others to treat you well, treat yourself, and them, nice. End story. :)

TombRaiderLover
22-12-09, 12:27
I'll open the door for anyone, man or woman. I don't see why women should get special treatment. That seems very old-fashioned, if you ask me.

Mad Tony
22-12-09, 12:34
I just try to be respectful to everyone.

I alway hold the door open for people if I see them coming or if somebody drops something I'll stop to help them pick it up.Yeah, I do this regardless of gender.

Minty Mouth
22-12-09, 12:47
I like the way you go the word "paramour" into the topic, Catracoth.

IMO, doesn't have to be my paramour, anybody deserves polite gestures.

lara c. fan
22-12-09, 13:11
Everyone deserves it really :)

Also, Cataphract, good on you :tmb:

scoopy_loopy
22-12-09, 13:51
I do it for respect. If you want respect, be respectful. I don't really have much on the Gentlemen Conduct, even if they try to enforce that in school. I've learned to get others to treat you well, treat yourself, and them, nice. End story. :)

I agree, sometimes it can be very over the top to be a "Gentleman". At my school, we were very encouraged to show very old fashioned manners (even tipping our Akubras, amongst other things)... sometimes its just embaressing for both parties.

Andyroo
22-12-09, 14:17
I'll be nice to anyone, holding a door open and stuff like that, not just for a female.

And I would certainly not ever throw my jacket into a puddle so the lazy girl can walk over it, instead of around it. If she wants to walk over that puddle so much, she can throw her own damn clothes into it.

In this day and age, woman aren't princesses like they used to be treated. They have jobs, they have hands, and they know how to open a door. There's a different between simply being respectful, or treating someone like a princess who can't do anything for herself.

msalpha2omega
22-12-09, 14:24
TRUE STORY (Place and the people involved shall not be mentioned for privacy purposes.)

Me and a business partner were returning back to our hotel one night, when we saw this young blonde staggering on the sidewalk; Obviously she was drunk as a skunk! On top of that, it was cold rainy night and all she had on was a cocktail dress. I told my friend to go on ahead without me while I talked with her to get an idea as to what's going on. Apparently she lost the keys to her condo and there was no one home. She also lost her ID and she couldn't get a hold of a friend or anyone that could confirm her identity to the security officer at her building. Furthermore, she was not allowed to sleep on the condo lounge (obviously) so she went off on the street. She was drenched and not one idiot for three blocks tried to assist her! I doubt the liablity of assault or sexual harrasment comes to mind when ANYONE is walking in the rain with no jacket, and drunk out their mind. So I gave her my coat, escorted her to a hotel, got her a room, gave her my number and told her to contact me first thing the next morning to let me know that everything is OK. After arranging everything with the staff and getting a hug and errr... friendly peck, I got outta there. I got a call from her the next day and was so thankful for everything...

That was very nice of you! And so nice of her for appreciating your help and thanking you!

Another friend whom I discussed this with, a female, says that she doesn't really feel a need for men to throw down their leather jacket in mud so the woman doesn't ruin her shoes

I agree with your friend. Totally. But most of my male friends do wait in the door for me or offer their coat if I'm cold, and I respect them for doing that... I don't expect anyone to do such things, but it feels really nice when those things happen...! And I always thank them, adding a "you're such a gentleman" after "thank you"! As for me, I am also polite to people, holding the door for someone, either male or female, offer a tissue etc. I think it mostly is being polite, no matter your gender....

I'm a gentlewoman!:D

Dennis's Mom
22-12-09, 14:34
I think "being gentlemanly" is probably an excellent idea in a courtship situation.

Outside of that, I certainly don't expect anything other than common courtesy, something I try to give as much as possible myself.

I find the "cape in the mud" example a bit ridiculous since I doubt anyone has done that or had that expectation since the advent of the paved sidewalk.

Back when I was working in downtown Houston, I rode the bus to work. My departure stop was the last stop before the freeway; by the time it got to me, seats were usually full and I had to stand. When I was pregnant (obviously so) almost no one offered me their seat, and when someone did it was a woman.

xXhayleyroxXx
22-12-09, 15:42
if as guy isnt polite and gentlemanly im not interested. its not nice having a door smack you in the face because he couldnt be bothered to hold it open for you. Its really nice to be shown respect by guys :hug:

for me, im polite and respectful to everyone - it how i want people to view me.

Oh, one of my guy friends was telling me about how e thought this girl we were discussign was stuck-up and not friendly - because they had been walking in the rain (with her in high heels) with some other people - and he gave her his shoes and walked barefoot. He didnt get a thankyou, an acknowledgement or even a smile. He smiles at her round school but she ignores him.

I was disgusted when i heard. He's lovely and really didnt deserve that.

Minimus
22-12-09, 15:54
I don't agree with stereotypical "manliness"*. I believe if you have a penis then you are a man. Unless you are a hermaphrodite.


*manly |ˈmanlē|
adjective ( -lier , -liest )
having or denoting those good qualities traditionally associated with men, such as courage and strength : looking manly and capable in his tennis whites. See note at male .
(of an activity) befitting a man, esp. in a traditional sense : the manly art of knife-throwing.

jackles
22-12-09, 15:57
Well I am polite to everyone. Honest. No I am. Well... unless someone is rude to me...just don't ever walk though a door I have held open for you and not say thank you!


But I do love chaps to be gentlemen....nothing like feeling all womanly and respected (and I say this as a feminist!) Maybe it is because I was brought up with those expectations.

scion05
22-12-09, 16:04
Yeah, I do this regardless of gender.

Same here ;)

irjudd
22-12-09, 16:55
Basic manners here. Hold open the door if the person behind me is reasonably close that not holding the door would be obviously rude, regardless of gender. Although I will probably let a lady walk ahead of me first, for less than gentlemanly reasons. :whi:

Jack Croft
22-12-09, 17:31
Basic manners here. Hold open the door if the person behind me is reasonably close that not holding the door would be obviously rude, regardless of gender. Although I will probably let a lady walk ahead of me first, for less than gentlemanly reasons. :whi:

:vlol:

TRfan23
22-12-09, 17:40
I'm a gentlemen, but I'm quite clumsy with it sometimes *Insert embarrassed emoticon*

remote91
22-12-09, 17:52
I'm nice to people.

Regardless of gender.

lara c. fan
22-12-09, 18:09
I don't agree with stereotypical "manliness"*. I believe if you have a penis then you are a man. Unless you are a hermaphrodite.


*manly |ˈmanlē|
adjective ( -lier , -liest )
having or denoting those good qualities traditionally associated with men, such as courage and strength : looking manly and capable in his tennis whites. See note at male .
• (of an activity) befitting a man, esp. in a traditional sense : the manly art of knife-throwing.

I don't believe in any stereotypes :)
They're unfair

WSOwen02
22-12-09, 18:24
I try to be a gentleman by holding open doors, giving a woman my seat, etc. but I also know that a good samaritan is an easy target.

Catapharact
23-12-09, 05:06
I honestly respect you for that as I'm almost certain that for 99% of the time people would have just walked past her and ignored her. That was an extremely sensible and compassionate thing to do. I'm glad to hear that you did get a call back and the thanks you deserved!:tmb:

I am grateful that you feel that way towards my action :), but I am more concerned about your dead on comment that 99% of the people would have just walked by her and left her there. That is what I wanted to bring to everyone's attention. Like I said, most men need to act like men before they can even begin being gentlemen.

KyleCroft
23-12-09, 05:29
I was brought up a very well mannered person, so yes, I have many manners. But I am not for the whole 'women deserve better treatment' thing. If we want so called 'equality' then stop treating women like they are some fragile beings who will snap if they aren't let off the elevator first, or don't have your coat as soon as their skin drops below 25 degrees Celsius.

Just my two cents.

aktrekker
23-12-09, 06:01
Women will never be equal as long as they try to be men.

Women are women, and I'm glad they are. They deserve to be treated with respect. Moreso than men, because men don't normally expect that kind of treatment....we're men. :p

Mad Tony
23-12-09, 12:22
Women will never be equal as long as they try to be men.

Women are women, and I'm glad they are. They deserve to be treated with respect. Moreso than men, because men don't normally expect that kind of treatment....we're men. :pEveryone should be respected equally.

scoopy_loopy
23-12-09, 12:53
^ :tmb:

Johnnay
23-12-09, 12:57
I am grateful that you feel that way towards my action :), but I am more concerned about your dead on comment that 99% of the people would have just walked by her and left her there. That is what I wanted to bring to everyone's attention. Like I said, most men need to act like men before they can even begin being gentlemen.

Oh No
its forrbiden to drink and get drunk in Saudi Arabia
this woman of yours is lucky not to be punished badly by 100 lashes or so for her actions.

scoopy_loopy
23-12-09, 13:22
^ **** off Johnnay. Seriously, wow; you've dropped to new lows. :rolleyes:

irjudd
23-12-09, 14:08
He's clearly talking about Canada scoopers. :tmb:

jaywalker
23-12-09, 14:32
I am truly chivalrous in my approach and attitude to door opening and offering seat if possible etc.. will happily argue with anyone who says i am being old fashioned and sexist (yes i have had a door slammed in my face and shouted at `I CAN OPEN A DOOR JUST COS AM A WOMAN DONT MAKE ME WEAK` i just smiled and she looked really sheepish when i got thanked by another woman 2 seconds later :)

Nerd For Life
23-12-09, 14:36
Women will never be equal as long as they try to be men.

Women are women, and I'm glad they are. They deserve to be treated with respect. Moreso than men, because men don't normally expect that kind of treatment....we're men. :p

Please, tell me you're being sarcastic. :rolleyes:

jackles
23-12-09, 15:04
I think "being gentlemanly" is probably an excellent idea in a courtship situation.

Outside of that, I certainly don't expect anything other than common courtesy, something I try to give as much as possible myself.

I find the "cape in the mud" example a bit ridiculous since I doubt anyone has done that or had that expectation since the advent of the paved sidewalk.

Back when I was working in downtown Houston, I rode the bus to work. My departure stop was the last stop before the freeway; by the time it got to me, seats were usually full and I had to stand. When I was pregnant (obviously so) almost no one offered me their seat, and when someone did it was a woman.


I had been on the bus several times when heavily pregnant and standing up, no one offered me a seat at all (and I suffered a lot of pain during my pregnacy). I have offered old ladies etc my seat and then sneered at the men who were studiously looking the other way, that sort of behaviour disgusts me.

Your_Envy*
23-12-09, 15:22
Oh No
its forrbiden to drink and get drunk in Saudi Arabia
this woman of yours is lucky not to be punished badly by 100 lashes or so for her actions.

Even if you are joking, this is one bad, bad joke. Worst one ever.


Anyway, I agree with this post:

I just try to be respectful to everyone.

I alway hold the door open for people if I see them coming or if somebody drops something I'll stop to help them pick it up.

Well said! :tmb:

Johnnay
23-12-09, 19:52
Even if you are joking, this is one bad, bad joke. Worst one ever.


Anyway, I agree with this post:



Well said! :tmb:

I'm not joking
it's illegal to do such stuff like drink and all that where he lives( in Saudi Arabia) and trust me the country is very tolerant on Women.

So she's more lucky cat rescued her than being punished
repeat
I am not joking. I had cousins who used to live in that country so I would know

TRhalloween
23-12-09, 19:55
Yeah, Saudi Arabia, sure.

Johnnay
23-12-09, 20:14
why don't you google the Country to find out how tolerant they are, After all they are the most strictest Muslim country in the world

^ **** off Johnnay. Seriously, wow; you've dropped to new lows. :rolleyes:

AND YOU..... I'm telling a fact and you simply jump to conclusions because this does happen. it's not like I'm really against Cat saving her but it is very Risky to get drunk in a tolerant Muslim country.

scoopy_loopy
24-12-09, 04:04
why don't you google the Country to find out how tolerant they are, After all they are the most strictest Muslim country in the world



AND YOU..... I'm telling a fact and you simply jump to conclusions because this does happen. it's not like I'm really against Cat saving her but it is very Risky to get drunk in a tolerant Muslim country.

You're an idiot, my friend. Everyone knows it's Illegal to consume Alcohol in Saudi Arabia. But who even said this event took place there?

Also, the way you worded your earlier post was postively barbaric and completely insensitive. You need to think before you hit "Submit Reply" *shakes head*.

Ward Dragon
24-12-09, 04:12
You're an idiot, my friend. Everyone knows it's Illegal to consume Alcohol in Saudi Arabia. But who even said this event took place there?

Also, the way you worded your earlier post was postively barbaric and completely insensitive. You need to think before you hit "Submit Reply" *shakes head*.

He assumed it happened in Saudi Arabia because of Cat's listed location. He said the woman was lucky to not be punished for drinking. He didn't say that she should be punished, only that if it was indeed in Saudi Arabia then that would be a likely outcome so it's good that didn't happen :)

EmeraldFields
24-12-09, 04:41
Yeah, Saudi Arabia, sure.

LMAO! :vlol: