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Quasimodo
04-01-10, 08:10
Maybe you feel your beliefs single you out if


you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (family, friends, and/or coworkers) are not
you or your family have beliefs very different from those around you


How have you struggled between being honest with yourself and trying please or fit in with others?

lara c. fan
04-01-10, 08:13
Not really....
People, luckily, accept me for what I am...

TheBloodRed
04-01-10, 08:15
I do not believe in Marriage.
Religion is not needed at all.
Gay Pride is not needed.
Not all things are set in stone for the genders to experience. (styles and activities for one gender is not limited to just that one)
All people are the same.

LightningRider
04-01-10, 08:16
I keep my beliefs in, I have faith, but there's a Scientific explanation for most things, at least...

But I'm grown up as a Catholic, in a Catholic Part of our Country. We're all pretty much equal. :)

Aranara
04-01-10, 08:27
Maybe you feel your beliefs single you out if

you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)

This is me:) My friend comes from a religious family (her father is a reverend and her mother works at a library full of religion books) but she isn't religious at all. And my family isn't religious, we don't go to church. Except for Easter.

Drone
04-01-10, 08:38
Every little thing I've ever done or said singles me out and it's all right. Yeah I'm such an indie person. The important thing is my belief and faith are always with me and I couldn't care less about anything else. Unconditional love and hate are to stay with me :wve:

Tyrannosaurus
04-01-10, 09:15
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (family, friends, and/or coworkers) are not


This would be the case for me. My family is religious, and I have inherited my mother's Catholicism. Most people say some nonsense like "I was raised Catholic," as if to imply that in later years they have indifferently consigned God to that mass graveyard of childhodd chimeras of no relevance to their adult lives, where dinosaurs, dragons, unicorns, robots, and angels may lie.

I don't identify with any of that. When I say "I'm Catholic" I don't mean that I was raised Catholic but don't practice and have inherited some Catholic guilt. If I had no belief in any supernatural, divine, transcendent reality apart from the physical world, I would call myself an atheist--not some obfuscating term like "lapsed Catholic", "secular humanist" "free thinker" or "bright" (in order of pretension). When I attend a church, I am there to worship that god as revealed through that church and that religion, whether my friends or family approve or not. I mean that in my adult life I have indeed reached the age of reason and began to think for myself, question my beliefs, critically examine the evidence--and concluded that belief in this faith is well justified.

OK, so what does this mean for my environment? I'm in an MFA program in San Francisco. Work it out for yourself.

The pop culture that saturates our age more or less makes a habit of constant, casual iconoclasm. Religion is mostly viewed from the outside, and people have made religions of their political views. I feel as if I am not easily understood here or anywhere because I do not fit into any stereotype.

I'm Catholic? Yes, but I also curse, fornicate, read Tarot cards, listen to death metal, love porn, and have forgotten more about dinosaurs than most people will ever care to learn.

I've love paleontology? Yes, but I also hate Richard Dawkins with a passion, and anyone else who would use it as a weapon against religion.

I'm a gamer? Yes, but I haven't played much of anything in years, and I feel as if games are making a similar progression in technical advances at the cost of a deeper and more compelling experience as movies.

I'm a role-player? Yes, but I hate 3rd and 4th edition D&D and want nothing to do with World of Warcraft. I feel absolutely no shame in admitting my role-playing days and feel contempt for anyone who does.

I'm smart? So you say, but I'm not a "nerd" or a "geek".

I love the natural science? Yes, but I have to train my mind to be logical and suffocate in the formulae of mathematics, logic, and empiricism.

I like fantasy and aspire to write it? Yes, but most fantasy literature sucks.

I'm a writer in general? Yes, but I don't read nearly enough. It has to really grab me in order for me to finish.

I'm always pushing the envelope for more depth, always pushing people to look harder and deeper at themselves and their beliefs. I'm almost never satistified artistically, intellectually, or spiritually.

lara c. fan
04-01-10, 09:17
I'm smart? So you say, but I'm not a "nerd" or a "geek".



Exactly what I try to say.
Not that anyone will listen....

Legend 4ever
04-01-10, 09:19
Atheist in a family that is not practicing their Christian Orthodox religion.

I think religion is such a random thing, I can't see a problem with people stating they're Atheists anymore. Moreover, if it ever was or still is scandalous to say you don't believe in God, I really don't know where I'm living, because no one's ever said that to me.

Tyrannosaurus
04-01-10, 09:22
Atheist in a family that is not practicing their Christian Orthodox religion.

In this case, what difference does it make?

Legend 4ever
04-01-10, 09:24
In this case, what difference does it make?

Well it doesn't single me out from my family, but it does somewhat in the state I live in. Even if I was practicing lol

TRhalloween
04-01-10, 09:26
Some of my relatives are Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses. My close family aren't religious so that gives me a lot of freedom as an atheist.

Drone
04-01-10, 09:26
but I'm not a "nerd" or a "geek"

why these two words are offensive for some people? :confused:

Ikas90
04-01-10, 09:29
No. My beliefs and values are important to me. If people can't accept them, then that's their problem.

However, if I am perhaps wrong about something, my mind is open to other speculations.

lara c. fan
04-01-10, 09:30
why these two words are offensive for some people? :confused:

Would you like to be called that?
Until you've gone 6 years at least with people saying that, you'd hate it

Drone
04-01-10, 09:33
Would you like to be called that?
Until you've gone 6 years at least with people saying that, you'd hate it

6 or 60 I don't care. As a technologist I don't mind word geek at all. Me and my coworkers always call each other geeks.

Hello geek, how are you?
I'm fine, thanks geek.

Punaxe
04-01-10, 09:34
Not my beliefs - although my parents used to be Catholics, they have taught me both the religious and the atheistic world view, the latter of which they currently hold themselves, as do I, as does pretty much everyone else I know.

I am however a pretty strange kid on the block at my university, not caring at all, or even having contempt for the activities the others generally do in their free time. That does single me out, unfortunately.

lara c. fan
04-01-10, 09:35
6 or 60 I don't care. As a technologist I don't mind word geek at all. Me and my coworkers always call each other geeks.

Hello geek, how are you?
I'm fine, thanks geek.

As a joke, right?

At least in my experience, people don't say it as a joke.

Punaxe
04-01-10, 09:37
why these two words are offensive for some people? :confused:

Nerd (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nerd) is generally an offensive term, geek (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geek) can be.

ThatNorskChick
04-01-10, 09:40
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (family, friends, and/or coworkers) are not


I s'pose this would be me but I'm pretty content with my differences from others these days.

Drone
04-01-10, 09:56
Nerd (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nerd) is generally an offensive term, geek (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geek) can be.

Some geeks / nerds are really annoying but so are all other people. It's just a state of mind/soul. It's the same how atheists mock believers. It only illustrates discrimination and pointlessness. Everyone should stand for pure ideals and beliefs.

rowanlim
04-01-10, 11:26
I'd say I'm not singled out because I don't really voice out my beliefs:


Many people assume I'm Christian (because of my name) when I'm a Buddhist. I just correct them, it's funny coz many of them don't know what Buddhism is about
I believe in upholding a person's right to happiness, so I support homosexuality, transsexuality, etc. which is pretty much frowned upon here; so I don't voice it out.
I don't believe in God, I won't elaborate on that, but I don't tell people about that.

tombraiderluka
04-01-10, 11:55
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (friends) are not

but i'm less religious than my family :)

Explorer
04-01-10, 12:50
you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)

Your an atheist ... since when?

Mad Tony
04-01-10, 12:55
On here (and just the internet in general) they certainly do. Behind Americans and Conservatives, Christians are easily the most bashed on the internet. If you belong to anyone of those groups - you better get your flame suit on. In real life, not so much. My mom is spritual kind of, and my step dad isn't really religious, but neither of us have any problems with the others beliefs.

LightningRider
04-01-10, 13:00
On here (and just the internet in general) they certainly do. Behind Americans and Conservatives, Christians are easily the most bashed on the internet. If you belong to anyone of those groups - you better get your flame suit on. In real life, not so much. My mom is spritual kind of, and my step dad isn't really religious, but neither of us have any problems with the others beliefs.

Why? :confused:

Mad Tony
04-01-10, 13:07
Why? :confused:I don't know. I wish I knew why lol.

Dina_Croft
04-01-10, 13:21
I am an atheist but that doesn't affect me or my family members.Well I am not actually like an atheist for sure, I just don't care if there is a god or not.What difference would it make if there was?

My family believes in God though.But yeah that doesn't single me out no way.They let me believe what I want to.

Squibbly
04-01-10, 13:22
I'm not singled out because people close to me accept who I am. Anyone who doesn't, they're not important anyway.

My father is religious and used to be kind of crazy about it, but not anymore. He doesn't force it on me or anything when I visit. My grandmother (dad's mother) used to try to force it on me, but she stopped after a while. I did used to "smile and nod" when she'd bring me to church, but I started speaking for myself in my later teens and she gave up. :p

Encore
04-01-10, 13:24
Maybe you feel your beliefs single you out if


you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (family, friends, and/or coworkers) are not
you or your family have beliefs very different from those around you


How have you struggled between being honest with yourself and trying please or fit in with others?

I don't have this problem because whatever beliefs I have that are diferent from my family's, they accept it and we sometimes discuss things in a very healthy and rational way.

Among people I know other than family, I really am kinda lonely in my political beliefs but it's easy because I don't like talking about politics with them. Whenever I hear the conversation heading towards racism, homophobia and the whole nine yards, I just step out of it.

On the internet it depends on where I am, if I know that I'm in a tolerant place I'll speak freely, but if I know that I'll be bashed and ridiculed then I just shut up. You can try to guess which description fits TRF better.

Eddie Haskell
04-01-10, 13:31
I don't know. I wish I knew why lol.

Most atheists and/or agnostics resent the inner happiness that true Christians (or any true believer within a religion that offers an afterlife) project and enjoy. Since they themselves cannot comprehend, accept or join into this happiness and contentment, they try and find ways to shoot down and destroy the link between the believer and their God, thereby attempting to make that person just as miserable as their Godless selves.

The other reason is best understood through activities like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)...

Los Angeles
04-01-10, 13:33
Of course they do...

I believe in a certain morality unlike some users here. :wve:

dream raider
04-01-10, 13:34
I'd say I'm not singled out because I don't really voice out my beliefs:

Same here.

Lara's home
04-01-10, 14:50
All I know are basically Athiest. That includes almost all my classmembers. There are some "religious" there, including a friend of mine, but we don't get in each others way.
Exactly what I try to say.
Not that anyone will listen....

Well, you are on a gaming forum. You are a nerd.

Drone
04-01-10, 15:28
I don't really voice out my beliefs


I see. I'm still voicing out my opinions and I am still having problems lol. In era of double standards, idiocy and blowhards it's so easy to get bashed for no reason. Actually that era never left. Freedom of speech is just a fiction. Of course everyone can say what he/she wants but well y'know ....

Forwen
04-01-10, 15:37
I feel like I'm more driven than the majority of people I know (I wish my success or failure were more clearly related to it though :mad: ).

TRfan23
04-01-10, 16:32
They have done at one point, but over the year I've changed my beliefs. It's confusing as sometimes I'm either an agnostic, theist or rarely an atheist. Usually depends on my mood.

Thanks to one particular member being Catapharact I've learnt a lot about the Abrahamic Religions (http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islam_judaism_christianity.htm) (Judaism, Christianity & Islam).

Judaism founded sometime in the BC era.
Christianity founded in 33AD.
Islam founded in 622AD.

They're called Abrahamic, as the story tells that Abraham foretold the coming of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad :)

The other reason is best understood through activities like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)...

That's most likely the reason why I used to be ignorant of religion. But it's man that does it all, using religion as an excuse. Why? Unfortunately it's within our nature to prejudge, fear plays a part. As you could also think about a wasp trying to protect it self from a human, the wasp assuming the human's going to hurt it so it stings them. Religion's the closest thing man can use to go against one another, as it apparently condemns certain people.
Then again there's many other reasons, strangely enough if I recall someone mentioning in gay community social place that the most anti-gay are usually gay themselves. It's to do with society making them think this way.

This is all why I changed my beliefs :)

I feel more inclusive with Islam and Judaism as much as I do with my own religion being a part of Christianity as a Catholic, just because I understand and respect them. My family except for my dad who's CofE (LOL I once thought he was a Pagan, just because he's not a Catholic when I was 13. As back then I thought Paganism wasn't a religion and word to use to describe people who don't have a religion. Of course it is a religion, but different to the others).
Are all Catholics and they don't feel as comfortable with Muslims as I do, they're not racist, as they don't say racist remarks behind their backs or to them. But they haven't socialized with them, as much as I have (though through this forum), so they don't feel as comfortable. I've noticed some Muslims I've seen in person walk by feel intimidated by me, obviously as some Western Nations have prejudged against them.
Unfortunately my mum would be yapping about it, saying why on earth did she look at you weirdly and complaining about why woman Muslims wear their headscarfs in the UK etc... She fails to understand. Then again she is pretty much a snob at times, and she does admit it, and always has been.


Sorry it's a large post, I just seem to have a bit of knowledge in this area lol.

irjudd
04-01-10, 16:52
Maybe you feel your beliefs single you out if


you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)
you're the religious/spiritual one and others around you (family, friends, and/or coworkers) are not
you or your family have beliefs very different from those around you


How have you struggled between being honest with yourself and trying please or fit in with others?

Option three. But it's never been something to struggle with, because the beliefs are more important than anybody I'd be trying to please. I just get by with either agreeing to disagree, or cutting association altogether.

Mona Sax
04-01-10, 18:30
Most atheists and/or agnostics resent the inner happiness that true Christians (or any true believer within a religion that offers an afterlife) project and enjoy. Since they themselves cannot comprehend, accept or join into this happiness and contentment, they try and find ways to shoot down and destroy the link between the believer and their God, thereby attempting to make that person just as miserable as their Godless selves.
You cannot be serious. I consider myself 'godless' (one could also say 'god-free'), but why should that mean I can't be happy and lead a fulfilling life? There are countless paths to happiness, and to an atheist, a life without religion might just be the right one. If your faith makes you happy and content, that's great, and I'd be the last one to try and take that away from you. Just don't assume that your religion would be the right path for me, too, because it would most certainly make me unhappy. Religious freedom is not only freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion.

Minty Mouth
04-01-10, 18:32
Most atheists and/or agnostics resent the inner happiness that true Christians (or any true believer within a religion that offers an afterlife) project and enjoy. Since they themselves cannot comprehend, accept or join into this happiness and contentment, they try and find ways to shoot down and destroy the link between the believer and their God, thereby attempting to make that person just as miserable as their Godless selves.

The other reason is best understood through activities like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)...

I agree with Mona Sax, I don't really know what else to say. This post makes some pretty far-fetched claims.

Squibbly
04-01-10, 18:43
You cannot be serious. I consider myself 'godless' (one could also say 'god-free'), but why should that mean I can't be happy and lead a fulfilling life? There are countless paths to happiness, and to an atheist, a life without religion might just be the right one. If your faith makes you happy and content, that's great, and I'd be the last one to try and take that away from you. Just don't assume that your religion would be the right path for me, too, because it would most certainly make me unhappy. Religious freedom is not only freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion.

My thoughts exactly.

Reggie
04-01-10, 18:47
You cannot be serious. I consider myself 'godless' (one could also say 'god-free'), but why should that mean I can't be happy and lead a fulfilling life? There are countless paths to happiness, and to an atheist, a life without religion might just be the right one. If your faith makes you happy and content, that's great, and I'd be the last one to try and take that away from you. Just don't assume that your religion would be the right path for me, too, because it would most certainly make me unhappy. Religious freedom is not only freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion.
I try not to say this very often but... ^This.

patriots88888
04-01-10, 18:59
How have you struggled between being honest with yourself and trying please or fit in with others?

It's all about acceptance. If others can't accept your beliefs and who you are, then what's the point in trying? I'm not wasting my time on that, that's for sure. There are more important things than 'fitting in' or pleasing others. I'm not even sure what you are referring to by, 'pleasing others'. Others won't be pleased unless you share the same beliefs as they do? I never understood that and doubt I ever will.

lara c. fan
04-01-10, 19:00
I, too, agree with Mona Sax :)

Los Angeles
04-01-10, 19:01
I also agree with Mona Sax. :wve:

Surohicko
04-01-10, 19:02
I also agree with Mona Sax :wve:

Drone
04-01-10, 19:05
It's all about acceptance. If others can't accept your beliefs and who you are, then what's the point in trying? I'm not wasting my time on that, that's for sure

Too right, speaking about belief with non-believer is the biggest waste of time ever. You can and do achieve your true happiness only when you're surrounded by the people who love and understand you because you're what you are.

TRhalloween
04-01-10, 19:28
Most atheists and/or agnostics resent the inner happiness that true Christians (or any true believer within a religion that offers an afterlife) project and enjoy. Since they themselves cannot comprehend, accept or join into this happiness and contentment, they try and find ways to shoot down and destroy the link between the believer and their God, thereby attempting to make that person just as miserable as their Godless selves.

The other reason is best understood through activities like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)...

You're old fashioned and don't like new things!

Los Angeles
04-01-10, 19:37
I agree with Eddie Haskell.

I Love LA
04-01-10, 19:38
I agree with Mona Sax

Eddie Haskell
04-01-10, 19:39
You cannot be serious. I consider myself 'godless' (one could also say 'god-free'), but why should that mean I can't be happy and lead a fulfilling life? There are countless paths to happiness, and to an atheist, a life without religion might just be the right one. If your faith makes you happy and content, that's great, and I'd be the last one to try and take that away from you. Just don't assume that your religion would be the right path for me, too, because it would most certainly make me unhappy. Religious freedom is not only freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion.

You missed the point. I was specifically addressing Mad Tony's post and the issue he raised. Please read and understand it in that context. The post refers to those who seek to "bash Christians and Christianity". Not to everyone else.

tranniversary119
04-01-10, 19:44
I consider myself agnostic, and my immediate family is Catholic. I keep to myself (my beliefs) because arguing with them or debating with them is near impossible. They're always right, and my opinion doesn't matter.

Quasimodo
04-01-10, 20:07
It's all about acceptance. If others can't accept your beliefs and who you are, then what's the point in trying? I'm not wasting my time on that, that's for sure. There are more important things than 'fitting in' or pleasing others. I'm not even sure what you are referring to by, 'pleasing others'. Others won't be pleased unless you share the same beliefs as they do? I never understood that and doubt I ever will.
Maybe those kinds of things are more important to those living with people whose beliefs differ from their own.
Most atheists and/or agnostics resent the inner happiness that true Christians (or any true believer within a religion that offers an afterlife) project and enjoy. Since they themselves cannot comprehend, accept or join into this happiness and contentment, they try and find ways to shoot down and destroy the link between the believer and their God, thereby attempting to make that person just as miserable as their Godless selves.

The other reason is best understood through activities like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/)...
Hmm. Okay...

While I do sometimes wonder at (I suppose you could call it a faint envy) how people can hold on to God despite all the arguments against his existence, I don't try to proselytize my disbelief on others.

Ward Dragon
04-01-10, 20:16
While I do sometimes wonder at (I suppose you could call it a faint envy) how people can hold on to God despite all the arguments against his existence, I don't try to proselytize my disbelief on others.

You seem very reasonable and respectful :) I think the point Eddie was trying to make is that it seems like extremists are often in denial about their own beliefs so they take it out on other people. (That probably applies to more than just religious views)

patriots88888
04-01-10, 20:30
Maybe those kinds of things are more important to those living with people whose beliefs differ from their own.

And again I say it's a waste of their time. Personal beliefs are not something in which to be compromised for the benefit of others. So I ask you again, what exactly do you mean by, 'pleasing others'?

xXhayleyroxXx
04-01-10, 20:43
i don't really know what i believe - i believe in jesus and that there is a life after death. I don't believe god created the world in 7 days. Apart from that I'm very vague in my religious beliefs, i'm sort of Christian - which doesn't make much sense does it :p

One belief I have for myself which gets debates and quizzical looks is my motive of being vegetarian - i don't think it's right for me to eat animals, when they have so much of my love; they are my companions, my friends, my family - and there are many alternatives.

Ok, so I miss bacon sarnies and fish-fingers:p - but I'm doing fine and continuing strong with that belief :)
xxx

Quasimodo
04-01-10, 20:47
And again I say it's a waste of their time. Personal beliefs are not something in which to be compromised for the benefit of others. So I ask you again, what exactly do you mean by, 'pleasing others'?

I think it'd break my mom and dad's hearts to find out I don't believe in God.

TR luver7
04-01-10, 20:47
I'm not atheist, I believe in a higher power, in God, But I have alot of questions about different religions and such, and the questions are tabboo to my parents. I keep it to myself, But im curious. I would like to stick to a religion, But I don't know which. How can I believe in what one religion strongly believes in when the other strongly believes in something else, something the other religion shuns? All I know is I believe & count on God, and my faith has done alot for me.
It just sucks I can't share it with my parents. Me and my parents are really close, just not in this aspect. They are strong Jehovah's Witnesses.
Religion really is a terrible subject to me, so many opinions :(

miss.haggard
04-01-10, 20:49
you or your family have beliefs very different from those around you

NVM, Mt Dew fueled ramblings need to stop.

jackles
04-01-10, 20:56
I am starting to consider myself fortunate that my beliefs however vague and woolly headed are never likely to create any problem with any one either in or out of my family after reading some of the posts.

:(

patriots88888
04-01-10, 21:02
I think it'd break my mom and dad's hearts to find out I don't believe in God.

I see what you're saying now. Then obviously you have to ask yourself which is more important to you: Upholding your own personal beliefs or compromise those beliefs by pretending to hold another. I'm assuming their approval is something of great importance to you and I can see your predicament. Have you ever attempted to discuss it with them? Maybe they would be more understanding about it than you might think?

Eddie Haskell
04-01-10, 21:17
Maybe those kinds of things are more important to those living with people whose beliefs differ from their own.

Hmm. Okay...

While I do sometimes wonder at (I suppose you could call it a faint envy) how people can hold on to God despite all the arguments against his existence, I don't try to proselytize my disbelief on others.

Yes, the world is full of happy, contented people who are atheists. However, there are some who have their own doubts and fears, and in a sad and hopeless (and most times antagonistic) attempt to extract "the secret" they so wish to embrace, they try to use all of their logic and reason to debunk the others belief. They expect that the happy, smiling Christian will have an answer for all of their pointed, logical questions. Of course faith and logic do not mix.

I had a friend in the military who constantly tried to make light of my faith through logic and reason. I answered him honestly and without malice, and in the end he acknowledged that he wished he could be as contented and full of faith as I was. But one cannot translate that to another, it must come from within.

ShadyCroft
04-01-10, 21:34
I don't live in a very accepting environment. My dad is really religious, though he doesn't go to church that much. However, coming from a very stubborn environment, he tends to think of things his way or the highway.
We must believe what he believes and all and he dislikes anything otherwise. He frowns and sometimes gets angry.

My sister is alittle lighter but still strict. We were once talking about my aunt who said she doesn't really believe in Jesus, and my sister was like "that's wrong !"
I told my sister "well, that's what she believes"
and she replied "its wrong. She's wrong" and she got very heated.

Mum is a lot lighter, but am not sure she could handle me telling her I have different beliefs or something...not gonna try to find out any time soon.

TRfan23
04-01-10, 21:47
^ Do they take religious jokes? (Not ones which are blasphemous) As it sounds that they take their own faith dead serious! Otherwise they'll disapprove of my family.

irjudd
04-01-10, 21:49
I think it'd break my mom and dad's hearts to find out I don't believe in God.
It seems to me that if they're truly steadfast in their faith, they would take the opportunity to show you what they consider irrefutable proof as a reason to why they do believe in God. If they can't do that, then it's time to reevaluate their own beliefs.

Out of curiosity, you earlier mentioned "arguments against his existence"; what are you referring to exactly?

ShadyCroft
04-01-10, 22:17
^ Do they take religious jokes? (Not ones which are blasphemous) As it sounds that they take their own faith dead serious! Otherwise they'll disapprove of my family.

Not really sure. I've never tried telling them a religious joke, and they haven't either.

Ward Dragon
04-01-10, 22:23
It seems to me that if they're truly steadfast in their faith, they would take the opportunity to show you what they consider irrefutable proof as a reason to why they do believe in God. If they can't do that, then it's time to reevaluate their own beliefs.

She also has to take into account that she has to live with them after this discussion, and if it turns out that they get defensive and lash out over not being able to explain their beliefs, that wouldn't be very fun to deal with. If she thinks they will react badly, then it's probably better not to discuss it (at least not until living apart from them :whi:)

Legends
04-01-10, 22:23
My family isn't really religious, my grandparents believe in God, and they think one should get married, baptized and have a funeral in church, but that's about it. I don't really care about religion. I respect those who believe in something, but I think it's unfair of religious people to convert and force their belief onto everyone else around them.

Explorer
04-01-10, 22:28
I think it'd break my mom and dad's hearts to find out I don't believe in God.

When it comes to threads such as this, I've always interpreted your posts as expressing some kind of belief in God. So I am a little confused now you say the above?

Mad Tony
04-01-10, 22:44
but I think it's unfair of religious people to convert and force their belief onto everyone else around them. Ok, why is this always one of the first things atheists mention when talking about religion? Nobody likes having opposing views shoved down their throat. It's kind of a given. I've always found the above sentence rather redundant.

Besides, most religious people aren't like that and there are a fair amount of atheists who shove their views down the throats of others anyway.

remote91
04-01-10, 23:02
Erm, nope.

Quasimodo
04-01-10, 23:16
When it comes to threads such as this, I've always interpreted your posts as expressing some kind of belief in God. So I am a little confused now you say the above?

I lost my faith sometime last year.

Atlantean-Squid
04-01-10, 23:51
I'm pretty lucky. I'm agnostic (but I identify more with atheism than any religions), and my immediate family are atheists.

Mad Tony
05-01-10, 00:05
I'm pretty lucky. I'm agnostic (but I identify more with atheism than any religions), and my immediate family are atheists.Surely the attitude of a family towards other beliefs is what makes somebody lucky, not what beliefs they hold?

silver_wolf
05-01-10, 00:08
Not really. I'm Christian, most of my family is Christian, no problem. Now, later in life I can foresee some problems. Being a Christian who wants to get into archaeology isn't exactly easy.
My family isn't really religious, my grandparents believe in God, and they think one should get married, baptized and have a funeral in church, but that's about it. I don't really care about religion. I respect those who believe in something, but I think it's unfair of religious people to convert and force their belief onto everyone else around them.
You know, it's not like all religious people are fanatical nut jobs, and I sick of the stereotype. I trust a religious person more than an atheist, no matter what their religion, because at least they have a sound set of morals. And these days the whole "forcing beliefs on others" is turned around; more and more religious people are pressured to give up their "superstitions". It's becoming increasingly hard to be religious and respected.

Legends
05-01-10, 00:10
Ok, why is this always one of the first things atheists mention when talking about religion? Nobody likes having opposing views shoved down their throat. It's kind of a given. I've always found the above sentence rather redundant.

Most religious people I have met are either overly devoted and live by the bible or... they are silent in their beliefs and don't like you for not completely agreeing with them. The only thing I really don't understand is why someone would live by someone's religious views when you deep down have your own. So yes, the sentence is redundant, but it's true.

Mad Tony
05-01-10, 00:13
Most religious people I have met are either overly devoted and live by the bible or... they are silent in their beliefs and don't like you for not completely agreeing with them. The only thing I really don't understand is why someone would live by someone's religious views when you deep down have your own. So yes, the sentence is redundant, but it's true. Most Christians are certainly not like that though.

Religion is no different from any other kind of belief or view people hold. Certain people are intolerant towards those with other views. Be this with regards to religion, politics or whatever. Some people like to think that this is something to do with religion (I'm not referring to anybody in particular), when in actual fact it's us. Unfortunately, some people are just like that.

Same goes for war actually. I can't stand it when people say "if religion didn't exist there'd be no war". Perhaps one of the dumbest most ignorant statements I've ever heard.

silver_wolf
05-01-10, 00:14
Most religious people I have met are either overly devoted and live by the bible or... they are silent in their beliefs and don't like you for not completely agreeing with them.
That doesn't mean all religious people are like that. And that's the entire point of the bible- as a guide for life. Doesn't mean you have to be a conservative prude who sings hymns all day and stays inside.
The only thing I really don't understand is why someone would live by someone's religious views when you deep down have your own.Because they believe it? It's not like all religious converts have been brainwashed.

Mad Tony
05-01-10, 00:16
That doesn't mean all religious people are like that. And that's the entire point of the bible- as a guide for life. Doesn't mean you have to be a conservative prude who sings hymns all day and stays inside.Not all Christians are conservative. There's no correlation between political views and religion. I've seen plenty of Christians from both sides of the political specturm.

silver_wolf
05-01-10, 00:17
yeah, I know. And I wasn't just referring to conservative politically; I also meant conservatives who never do anything that isn't clearly talked about in the bible and would stone you for wearing sexy clothes.

Legends
05-01-10, 00:28
You know, it's not like all religious people are fanatical nut jobs, and I sick of the stereotype. I trust a religious person more than an atheist, no matter what their religion, because at least they have a sound set of morals. And these days the whole "forcing beliefs on others" is turned around; more and more religious people are pressured to give up their "superstitions". It's becoming increasingly hard to be religious and respected.

Look, you judge me because I'm not religious and I have my views, you see it the other way around, which is fine, but I don't judge you because of it. I just shared my opinion.


Most Christians are certainly not like that though.

Religion is no different from any other kind of belief or view people hold. Certain people are intolerant towards those with other views. Be this with regards to religion, politics or whatever. Some people like to think that this is something to do with religion (I'm not referring to anybody in particular), when in actual fact it's us. Unfortunately, some people are just like that.

Yeah, I pretty much agree.

silver_wolf
05-01-10, 00:31
Look, you judge me because I'm not religious and I have my views, you see it the other way around, which is fine, but I don't judge you because of it. I just shared my opinion.
I'm not judging you 'cause you're not religious. I honestly don't care.

Atlantean-Squid
05-01-10, 00:34
Surely the attitude of a family towards other beliefs is what makes somebody lucky, not what beliefs they hold?

My beliefs are similar enough to my family's to make it irrelevant whether or not they're tolerant of other beliefs.

larafan25
05-01-10, 00:41
All that can be said about religion is IMO.

Too me religion has been morphed and ruined by people.

I honestly believe that whether it was jesus or neptune or any god or any afterlife that they were all created for the same reason. I don't believe these things actually exist in physical form, but in our minds and they work as faith and hope. I look at it like this, some guy has a family, his house burns down and his kids and partner die, he looses his job. WOW that sucks right? well what does he have left to live for? nothing unless there is something to work through this life towards, ie. the afterlife. I believe that the after life and gods and the idea of religion was to give people hope and faiththat they were unable to find in other things. With this being the answer to whether you believe in it or not, some people find faith in other things such as their career, maybe their dreams, and some people get it through religion.

I don't believe it's a lie, more like a helping hand to guid you through life.

However where I feel it goes bad is with different religions descriminating against other religions or races, even sexuality. These such things are not coming from religion but people. so I don't believe relgion is there to tell you how to live your life, but to help you when you loose hope and cannot find faith. Hence why they might call it your faith.

so when someone goes up to a person and tells them that God doesn't exist, that is the same as someone going up to someone and forcing their ideas upon them, as it IS the same situation. I think that people can believe whatever they want, just be a good person. Because of this belief I have I wouldn't join a church or get into a religion that descriminates against any kind or person or any certain lifestyle. I would not choose my friends based on what their beliefs are, or their general opinions. We are all different and thus think in different ways and believe different religions.

Too answer the question, no I am not singled out by my beliefs and I hope nobody is, however that is unfortunately not the case. It frightens me when people use religion to back up their opinions or to use as excuses in war, it's disgusting. I think the idea of religion was pure kind hearted thoughts but was then tainted by our human hands. :/

I also forgot to mention that I don't believe there is one right or wrong or true religion, due to the perspective I have taken on it:)

edit: Also I don't believe morals or being told how to be good person are part of religion, these are individual traits IMO that shouldn't need to be taught or preeched to someone but should be aware of them and how to be respectful and kind to each other.:)

Legends
05-01-10, 00:46
All that can be said about religion is IMO.

Too me religion has been morphed and ruined by people.

I honestly believe that whether it was jesus or neptune or any god or any afterlife that they were all created for the same reason. I don't believe these things actually exist in physical form, but in our minds and they work as faith and hope. I look at it like this, some guy has a family, his house burns down and his kids and partner die, he looses his job. WOW that sucks right? well what does he have left to live for? nothing unless there is something to work through this life towards, ie. the afterlife. I believe that the after life and gods and the idea of religion was to give people hope and faiththat they were unable to find in other things. With this being the answer to whether you believe in it or not, some people find faith in other things such as their career, maybe their dreams, and some people get it through religion.

I don't believe it's a lie, more like a helping hand to guid you through life.

However where I feel it goes wrong is eith different religions descriminating against other religions or races, even sexuality. These such things are not coming from religion but people. so I don't believe relgion is there to tell you how to live your life, but to help you when you loose hope and cannot find faith. Hence why they might call it your faith.

so when someone goes up to a person and tells them that God doesn't exist, that is the same as someone going up to someone and forcing their ideas upon them, as it IS the same situation. I think that people can believe whatever they want, just be a good person. Because of this belief I have I wouldn't join a church or get into a religion that descriminates against any kind or person or any certain lifestyle. I would not choose my friends based on what their beliefs are, or their general opinions. We are all different and thus think in different ways and believe different religions.

Too answer the question, no I am not singled out by my beliefs and I hope nobody is, however that is unfortunately not the case. It frightens me when people use religion to back up hteir opinions or to use as excuses in war, it's disgusting. I think the idea of religion was pure kind hearted thoughts but was then tainted by our human hands. :/

This is the best post I have ever read by you.

larafan25
05-01-10, 00:47
^ooo thanks, I am glad you read my posts:p

larafan25
05-01-10, 01:11
I do not believe in Marriage.
Religion is not needed at all.
Gay Pride is not needed.
Not all things are set in stone for the genders to experience. (styles and activities for one gender is not limited to just that one)
All people are the same.

sorry to double post:p

I have to agree with this somehwhat, YES everyone should be able to express pride in their sexuality, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it shouldn't be needed.

I don't think that gay rights should be needed either, we should not be given freedoms and rights based on out sexuality or race but the fact that we are all human and part of the same race. But in the world we live in these things are unfortunately needed. :/

Andyroo
05-01-10, 02:46
I totally agree with everything larafan25 has said. Well said indeed!

Draco
05-01-10, 13:56
There is no group of people I can freely associate with on the face of this Earth, but that is mainly because people insist on thinking themselves different from everyone else.

There is no one more different than the person who doesn't strive to point out differences.

LightningRider
05-01-10, 13:58
I must say, now, I believe in Love above most things.

:D

Drone
05-01-10, 14:06
Religious conceptions are based on love but people think that it's too trendy to neglect it hence they do so. In such a confusing situation believers get singled out and estrange from the masses. I bet there're societies where if a girl is 18 and still virgin peope would think she's not ok

Dennis's Mom
05-01-10, 14:20
Not really. I'm Christian, most of my family is Christian, no problem. Now, later in life I can foresee some problems. Being a Christian who wants to get into archaeology isn't exactly easy.


There is no conflict between the Bible and science. Do not let anyone tell you differently. Indeed the Bible anticipates much of what science has proven.

It's hard being a Christian today because so much of what people see labeled as "Christian" misses the entire point of Jesus. Admitting you're Christian pretty much throws you in with the homo-hating, doctor-killing, science-hating Bible literalists who pick and choose whatever verses in the Bible make themselves feel superior.

LightningRider
05-01-10, 14:22
There is no conflict between the Bible and science. Do not let anyone tell you differently. Indeed the Bible anticipates much of what science has proven.

It's hard being a Christian today because so much of what people see labeled as "Christian" misses the entire point of Jesus. Admitting you're Christian pretty much throws you in with the homo-hating, doctor-killing, science-hating Bible literalists who pick and choose whatever verses in the Bible make themselves feel superior.

They obviously don't know anything. I was 12 and our teacher totally explained this to us. Weepee we're smarter. :p

ajrich17901
05-01-10, 14:29
Im a Christian and I have been looked down upon by my family because I don't really make it a part of me like they do. I've never been super religous, I don't do the church thing, nor do I pray lol. I just know what I believe in and leave it at that. People can think what they want of me I'm used to it.

Chocola teapot
05-01-10, 14:56
I Beleive in spirits (No Particular Religion)

If I told my friends they would laugh. :/

:p

Mona Sax
05-01-10, 18:27
Yes, the world is full of happy, contented people who are atheists. However, there are some who have their own doubts and fears, and in a sad and hopeless (and most times antagonistic) attempt to extract "the secret" they so wish to embrace, they try to use all of their logic and reason to debunk the others belief. They expect that the happy, smiling Christian will have an answer for all of their pointed, logical questions. Of course faith and logic do not mix.
Just as there are plenty of religious fanatics who hate everybody who doesn't share their exact faith with a passion. Just look at the various sects and confessions that exist in all major religions and the wars they fought throughout history. Ridiculous, isn't it, especially if you consider they all believe in the same things? Intolerance and disrespect exists in all ways of life. Obviously, discussion should always be possible. If logic and reason manage to make a religious person think, why not? If faith makes a secular person reconsider, why not?
You know, it's not like all religious people are fanatical nut jobs, and I sick of the stereotype. I trust a religious person more than an atheist, no matter what their religion, because at least they have a sound set of morals. And these days the whole "forcing beliefs on others" is turned around; more and more religious people are pressured to give up their "superstitions". It's becoming increasingly hard to be religious and respected.
I'm an atheist, and I consider myself having a pretty sound set of morals. I'd rather die than harm you or steal from you... not because some supernatural being said I'd be roasted otherwise, but because I consider that to be the right path for me.

I morals were based on one's religion, you'd consider stoning people for being unfaithful a good thing. You'd consider killing entire families and peoples for a single person's crimes just. You'd think that somebody willing to sacrifice their own children for their faith is a virtuous person. I didn't invent any of these examples, they're all actions endorsed or even demanded by Jahweh, the god of the Christian bible. And yet I assume you don't agree with any of those rules. Point is, your morals are probably not based on the bible, but are part of our genetic programming. Some of them are just repeated and reinforced by religious scripture. 'Thou shalt not kill' is common sense, it existed long before the bible was compiled. You don't have a conscience for no reason.
I must say, now, I believe in Love above most things.
Hear, hear. :tmb:

ShadyCroft
05-01-10, 18:57
Im a Christian and I have been looked down upon by my family because I don't really make it a part of me like they do. I've never been super religous, I don't do the church thing, nor do I pray lol. I just know what I believe in and leave it at that. People can think what they want of me I'm used to it.

Same here kinda.

There are some things that my family and a lot of Christians do here that I cant for the life of me find reasonable and do. Problem is, if I don't do it, they'd consider me bad and sorta blasphemous.

We went to a monastery up in the mountains of Dibbean and brought sugar, rice and other things for the nuns.
We got there and greeted them, then we went inside the church and prayed for a bit. Some guy there brought his kid and lifted him up and took him to a portrait of some saint and told him to kiss it. The kid did then they moved to the next portrait, then the one after, and another one. They went around all the other portraits and kissed it. I had a huge urge to tell the guy "hey, you forgot the other surfaces"
Then we went to light some candles and my dad was like "1 for your brother, 1 for your mom's family and 1 for our family". I said I was going to light one and he looked at me as if I was opposing him. What the heck is the difference if I light 1, 2 or 3 ? Whats the candle gonna do anyway ? I don't need 3 candles to ask God to protect my brother, my mom's family and my dad's family
The priest brought a box inside which, as he said, were relics of saints and he passed it around for all of us to kiss, and this woman nearly cried.

Seriously, I really though I was some sort of faithless undeserving person. I didn't find doing of that that big a deal. For me, I don't need to stand infront of a portrait of Jesus and kiss it and probably slobber all over it to be a believer. It bugs when they tell you to do these things and should because...well, you should or else you're a non-believer.

Eddie Haskell
05-01-10, 19:01
Just as there are plenty of religious fanatics who hate everybody who doesn't share their exact faith with a passion. Just look at the various sects and confessions that exist in all major religions and the wars they fought throughout history. Ridiculous, isn't it, especially if you consider they all believe in the same things? Intolerance and disrespect exists in all ways of life. Obviously, discussion should always be possible. If logic and reason manage to make a religious person think, why not? If faith makes a secular person reconsider, why not?


While I do agree that some "Christians" are very intolerant of "everyone else", they are a small minority.

On your last point, unsolicited proselytizing should never be done, particularly when one is attempting to do as I have stated in this thread. What would be the purpose in trying to turn a happy, contented believer into an atheist? If there is no God, than regardless of the beliefs and actions of the Christian both will turn to dust without an afterlife anyway. So there is no purpose in it, except perhaps an insidious, malevolent one from a twisted individual.

As a practicing Catholic, I never force my religious beliefs on anyone. If they ask me about it, I tell them what they want to know, no more, no less. I make no effort to convert anyone.

Mona Sax
05-01-10, 19:55
While I do agree that some "Christians" are very intolerant of "everyone else", they are a small minority.
So are militant and hateful atheists. Most of those I know just want to live their lives free of religion and without being called evil or incomplete because of it.
On your last point, unsolicited proselytizing should never be done, particularly when one is attempting to do as I have stated in this thread. What would be the purpose in trying to turn a happy, contented believer into an atheist? If there is no God, than regardless of the beliefs and actions of the Christian both will turn to dust without an afterlife anyway. So there is no purpose in it, except perhaps an insidious, malevolent one from a twisted individual.
That's looking at it the wrong way. I'm not asking anyone, religious or atheist, to try and convert anyone. Quite the opposite! What I like to see are lively and civilized discussions based on curiosity and an eagerness to learn. The desire to gain knowledge, not to shove your opinion down somebody else's throat. I want to know what you believe, and why, and I hope it's the same for you. Hopefully it'll expand both our horizons, and maybe it'll change the way we think. That wouldn't be so bad, now would it? If a philosophy can't survive the 'confrontation' with a different point of view, that just means it wasn't convincing from the beginning.

Dennis's Mom
05-01-10, 20:47
Same here kinda.

There are some things that my family and a lot of Christians do here that I cant for the life of me find reasonable and do. Problem is, if I don't do it, they'd consider me bad and sorta blasphemous.

We went to a monastery up in the mountains of Dibbean and brought sugar, rice and other things for the nuns.
We got there and greeted them, then we went inside the church and prayed for a bit. Some guy there brought his kid and lifted him up and took him to a portrait of some saint and told him to kiss it. The kid did then they moved to the next portrait, then the one after, and another one. They went around all the other portraits and kissed it. I had a huge urge to tell the guy "hey, you forgot the other surfaces"
Then we went to light some candles and my dad was like "1 for your brother, 1 for your mom's family and 1 for our family". I said I was going to light one and he looked at me as if I was opposing him. What the heck is the difference if I light 1, 2 or 3 ? Whats the candle gonna do anyway ? I don't need 3 candles to ask God to protect my brother, my mom's family and my dad's family
The priest brought a box inside which, as he said, were relics of saints and he passed it around for all of us to kiss, and this woman nearly cried.

Seriously, I really though I was some sort of faithless undeserving person. I didn't find doing of that that big a deal. For me, I don't need to stand infront of a portrait of Jesus and kiss it and probably slobber all over it to be a believer. It bugs when they tell you to do these things and should because...well, you should or else you're a non-believer.

I don't believe in holy things, only holy actions. I'm very fond of a something William Saroyan wrote: "Place in matter and in flesh the least of the values, for these are the things that hold death and must pass away."

Some people find comfort in rituals and feel they augment their faith, however, if a ritual has no meaning for you, find your own faith tradition.

Eddie Haskell
05-01-10, 21:00
So are militant and hateful atheists. Most of those I know just want to live their lives free of religion and without being called evil or incomplete because of it.

That's looking at it the wrong way. I'm not asking anyone, religious or atheist, to try and convert anyone. Quite the opposite! What I like to see are lively and civilized discussions based on curiosity and an eagerness to learn. The desire to gain knowledge, not to shove your opinion down somebody else's throat. I want to know what you believe, and why, and I hope it's the same for you. Hopefully it'll expand both our horizons, and maybe it'll change the way we think. That wouldn't be so bad, now would it? If a philosophy can't survive the 'confrontation' with a different point of view, that just means it wasn't convincing from the beginning.

That's good. However I do not "debate" or discuss religion for intellectual pursuits. There is not point in it, as an intelligent, educated person I can always find logical holes in anything that relies on faith. But thanks anyway. :)

patriots88888
05-01-10, 21:07
That's good. However I do not "debate" or discuss religion for intellectual pursuits. There is not point in it, as an intelligent, educated person I can always find logical holes in anything that relies on faith. But thanks anyway. :)

That's quite true. Anyone who has faith in anything should understand that. Faith is belief without proof, that's what makes it so special and unique.

TRfan23
05-01-10, 21:27
Thing is if you try and prove God, then you no longer need to believe in him as he's real. Just like I don't need to believe I own a PS3, as I know I own one.

Doing this would eradicate the whole idea of faith and religion in terms of God. People will then have to find another faith, if they can only rely on faith.

God is either real or not real depending on your faith :)

I remember actually awhile ago, when I was having dinner with my family and we just talking about God etc... I said I was agnostic and my mum looked at me with such a serious face lol. I said "I can choose my own faith you know?"

What makes me laugh is today when I was at college, them on my course knowing I'm a Catholic. Thus they assume I go to church loads of times and pray, and they assume I 100% believe in God. I said I'm an agnostic (most of the time), and they were like "Then why you a Catholic", I said I was brought up to be one.
I didn't choose to be one when I was young, I had no choice. Still they don't understand lol.

larafan25
05-01-10, 21:34
^can you renounce a faith after being baptised?:)

That's quite true. Anyone who has faith in anything should understand that. Faith is belief without proof, that's what makes it so special and unique.

Hence "Beliefs" right??:)

I don't think that when you find something amiss within a certain religion, that you should hold a grudge on that religion but contact the leader or persons involved in that religion, because most likely they are controlling it.

seeing as religion is controlled by people, we end up with things such as no homosexual marriage and I believe at one point no interacial marriage. So generally when there is an issue involving a religion, you are not going to yell at a certain person and talk down their religion, esspecially not if it is just a difference in beliefs. However if it is something bad or mistreating such as descrimination, then this is a trait of the person running the church or an idea of an individual in that religion.

IMO:)

patriots88888
05-01-10, 21:43
Hence "Beliefs" right??:)

I was pointing out the fact that some don't understand or 'get' the concept of what faith truly is. You can't have 'true' faith with absolute proof or certainty. Belief and faith are synonymous, but not exactly the same.

Marianna12
05-01-10, 21:47
Same here kinda.

There are some things that my family and a lot of Christians do here that I cant for the life of me find reasonable and do. Problem is, if I don't do it, they'd consider me bad and sorta blasphemous.

We went to a monastery up in the mountains of Dibbean and brought sugar, rice and other things for the nuns.
We got there and greeted them, then we went inside the church and prayed for a bit. Some guy there brought his kid and lifted him up and took him to a portrait of some saint and told him to kiss it. The kid did then they moved to the next portrait, then the one after, and another one. They went around all the other portraits and kissed it. I had a huge urge to tell the guy "hey, you forgot the other surfaces"
Then we went to light some candles and my dad was like "1 for your brother, 1 for your mom's family and 1 for our family". I said I was going to light one and he looked at me as if I was opposing him. What the heck is the difference if I light 1, 2 or 3 ? Whats the candle gonna do anyway ? I don't need 3 candles to ask God to protect my brother, my mom's family and my dad's family
The priest brought a box inside which, as he said, were relics of saints and he passed it around for all of us to kiss, and this woman nearly cried.

Seriously, I really though I was some sort of faithless undeserving person. I didn't find doing of that that big a deal. For me, I don't need to stand infront of a portrait of Jesus and kiss it and probably slobber all over it to be a believer. It bugs when they tell you to do these things and should because...well, you should or else you're a non-believer.

Story of my life!:p
I believe in God, but I find some things completely ridiculous!
For instance, some people leave their money/jewelry or bring HUGE candles to ask God to help their family and stuff. Like, God needs your money to help you!:rolleyes:

Ward Dragon
05-01-10, 21:50
Like, God needs your money to help you!:rolleyes:

Perhaps they think the money will go towards charities and therefore since they are trying to help the less fortunate, God will help them?

larafan25
05-01-10, 21:51
^This is my thought:)

And I think it shows religion working in some aspects, people are doing stuff and it's good.:)

Marianna12
05-01-10, 21:53
Perhaps they think the money will go towards charities and therefore since they are trying to help the less fortunate, God will help them?

No I don't think so. They leave golden coins/jewelry and then the priest places them under the glass of the "portrait" of the saint.

larafan25
05-01-10, 21:56
No I don't think so. They leave golden coins/jewelry and then the priest places them under the glass of the "portrait" of the saint.

hmmm.....I wonder why they do this ...o.O

Perhaps it is like how peole leave flowers at a grave..maybe theres some connection..:)

TRfan23
05-01-10, 21:57
^ But God wants love not money or treasures. Though fair enough if it was for charities.

^can you renounce a faith after being baptised?:)

I'm unsure on this :(

Marianna12
05-01-10, 21:59
^yeah!
hmmm.....I wonder why they do this ...o.O

Perhaps it is like how peole leave flowers at a grave..maybe theres some connection..:)

I don't really know...But I just find it silly, and it's not only with money and stuff... "Help my family and I will walk barefoot from my house to this church"

Ward Dragon
05-01-10, 22:01
^yeah!


I don't really know...But I just find it silly, and it's not only with money and stuff... "Help my family and I will walk barefoot from my house to this church"

It sounds like they think God will not help them unless they pay some sort of price (either literal or through suffering) :confused:

Drone
05-01-10, 22:04
I don't really know...But I just find it silly, and it's not only with money and stuff... "Help my family and I will walk barefoot from my house to this church"


it's strange how people think that God needs it.

Marianna12
05-01-10, 22:04
It sounds like they think God will not help them unless they pay some sort of price (either literal or through suffering) :confused:

Yeah, that's what I was saying! And some of them, after doing all of this, consider themselfs better Christians that others:rolleyes:

larafan25
05-01-10, 22:05
^it seems that way, and this could be the case because there are ancient religions where people are sacrificed due to some traditions, and I think it is a same type of scenario with jesus being killed or sacrificed for their sins, so maybe they feel this is a way of repaying. As it may not be about getting on a good side but more of them feeling they need to pay back for the life taken. So paying back with goods and items or pain..

TRfan23
05-01-10, 22:08
I think there needs to be a huge meeting with all human beings somewhere, and have a celebration for all people whether you're an atheist or not.

Then at the end everyone hugs each other.


^ My English Key Skills tutor, had mentioned about some people have this tradition where they nail themselves to the cross and get people to whip them, so it's pretty gory. Except not for their sins, but just because they thought they had to die.

larafan25
05-01-10, 22:13
I think there needs to be a huge meeting with all human beings somewhere, and have a celebration for all people whether you're an atheist or not.

Then at the end everyone hugs each other.


^ My English Key Skills tutor, had mentioned about some people have this tradition where they nail themselves to the cross and get people to whip them, so it's pretty gory. Except not for their sins, but just because they thought they had to die.

Yikes about the nailing :(

Anywho I totally think that everyone needs to get together and just be happy !!!!!

Drone
05-01-10, 22:16
I think there needs to be a huge meeting with all human beings somewhere, and have a celebration for all people whether you're an atheist or not.

Then at the end everyone hugs each other.

many things won't let this happen. politics, economics and good old idiocy.

patriots88888
05-01-10, 22:33
^it seems that way, and this could be the case because there are ancient religions where people are sacrificed due to some traditions, and I think it is a same type of scenario with jesus being killed or sacrificed for their sins, so maybe they feel this is a way of repaying. As it may not be about getting on a good side but more of them feeling they need to pay back for the life taken. So paying back with goods and items or pain..

I believe they did so as a way of showing their loyalty and devotion.

many things won't let this happen. politics, economics and good old idiocy.

And fear as well. There are many who would never want such a thing to happen because they feel safer when there is division amongst people. It's why you see so much seperation in the world today. Everyone and everything has its own little niche in society and I don't foresee any changes in that any time soon.

Drone
05-01-10, 22:39
And fear as well. There are many who would never want such a thing to happen because they feel safer when there is division amongst people. It's why you see so much seperation in the world today. Everyone and everything has its own little niche in society and I don't foresee any changes in that any time soon.

maybe it's meant to be this way. reminds me of Babel

Azerutan
05-01-10, 23:05
All people are the same.
People are not the same, but they should have the same rights and duties ;) It's different.

You should recognize people's differences, because fortunately we are different.

Rai
05-01-10, 23:45
I'm still trying to work out what my beliefs are. I have certain beleifs though that not many people know about as I'm wary of how people would react. Those I have told seem perfectly fine with it. I've been lucky to have certain acceptance. I'm an open-minded soul and never judge someone on their own beliefs system. The only time I'd be wary is if the beleif was harmful to the person or to others in some way.

Ilie_Fusarau
05-01-10, 23:55
you're an atheist in a religious family (like me!)
:tmb: I can relate ;)

Tyrannosaurus
06-01-10, 06:39
God is either real or not real depending on your faith :) No, God is either real or not real, independent of what you believe.

January_Snow*
06-01-10, 06:43
I have a few, but no one ever had problems with them...

I am christian, I belev in God, and in Jesus... but I dont beleve in heaven and hell, I beleve that in reincarnation...

I dont beleve in marriage, it is not possible for two people to love eachother forever, and for love to always be present, I beleve that people eventualy stay together for life because of habbit, of necesity etc....

Tyrannosaurus
06-01-10, 06:47
I have a few, but no one ever had problems with them...

I am christian, I belev in God, and in Jesus... but I dont beleve in heaven and hell, I beleve that in reincarnation... If you don't mind my asking, what is it about Jesus that you believe then? I hope you realize that he believed in heaven and hell, and spoke about them frequently.

January_Snow*
06-01-10, 07:11
If you don't mind my asking, what is it about Jesus that you believe then? I hope you realize that he believed in heaven and hell, and spoke about them frequently.

That he is the son of God, that he risen to heaven, and that he bought more time for the humanity by sacrifising himself, that he is our messiah (spelling?)... there are many more things, but besides Christ's teachings werent all about hell and heaven.... to put it like this I beleve that if you are good in this life you will have heaven in the next one, and if youre bad you will have hell in the next one....

ShadyCroft
06-01-10, 12:15
I don't really know...But I just find it silly, and it's not only with money and stuff... "Help my family and I will walk barefoot from my house to this church"

I just noticed, but isn't that what is called "Putting God to the test" ?

Help me and I will walk barefoot...
I'll give this money to charity but I need your help...

Isn't it written "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" ?

A lot of devout Christians do that here too, and as I just realized, isn't that sort of going against what you believe ? Its amazing how we think in time of need we think we get closer to God when in fact we get closer to him in return he saves us. All thoughts of "I trust you no matter what, God" forgotten

Alex Shepherd
06-03-10, 08:05
I do not believe in Marriage.
Religion is not needed at all.
Gay Pride is not needed.
Not all things are set in stone for the genders to experience. (styles and activities for one gender is not limited to just that one)
All people are the same.

1) Wrong
Explore life before you say this...
2) Wrong
Religion is the significance of the life science
3) Wrong
Since you're like people who don't believe of love doesn't mean your theory is right... Its still theory just like the stone, as you said...
4) I didn't get you
5) Wrong
Look at your hand right now... Seriously... Look at it... Look at your fingers, they are all connected in one hand, but each one of them are the same or equal to each other?

LightningRider
06-03-10, 08:08
1) Wrong
Explore life before you say this...
2) Wrong
Religion is the significance of the life science
3) Wrong
Since you're like people who don't believe of love doesn't mean your theory is right... Its still theory just like the stone, as you said...
4) I didn't get you
5) Wrong
Look at your hand right now... Seriously... Look at it... Look at your fingers, they are all connected in one hand, but each one of them are the same or equal to each other?

Look, I'm sorry, but it's what he believes. You're forcing down your beliefs on someone you barely even know. So stop right there.

Los Angeles
06-03-10, 10:53
But some ppl are really ignorant... and they then wonder if they end up in hell. :(