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Real Life Raider
26-01-10, 21:50
The world's SECOND pregnant man is 'blissfully happy' as he prepares to give birth to baby boy next month


PLEASE CLICK (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1246153/Second-pregnant-man-Scott-Moore-birth-baby-boy-month.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo)

Now, I'm confused (doesn't take much)!

Is this guy a girl who wants to be a guy but wants to stay a girl, or a guy with girls parts who wants to stay a guy but has to be a girl for now.

I wish him all the best though. :hug:

Or should that be her.....! :o

Catracoth
26-01-10, 21:55
It says right in the article:

Scott Moore, pictured with husband Thomas, is due to give birth next month to a boy. The couple - who were both born as girls - live in California.

TheBloodRed
26-01-10, 21:56
Technically it is still a female, I don't know where they get off saying it is a male pregnancy.

Seahorses have male pregnancy because the females shoot eggs into the sac of a male and the eggs get fertilized there.

We don't mate that way, it's a female. <_<

toxicraider
26-01-10, 22:05
Wait,
So they were both women, had a sex change, then had a gay marriage to one another as men (that were women)? That's confusing :p
I've never heard of anyone have a sex change to a gay person before.
Anyway, It's not a man. :rolleyes:

Aranara
26-01-10, 22:09
In any case, congrats? Although I'm a little confused about his/hers gender...

HappyShannon
26-01-10, 22:13
Congratulations to him :tmb:

I'm still waiting for the day where someone who was born a man get's pregnant though. Someone who can answer life's eternal question - "What hurts more - being kicked in the balls or giving birth?"

*Sigh* someday... :D

TRfan23
26-01-10, 22:19
Congratulations :) But to a certain extent it is a bit confusing on his gender.

Congratulations to him :tmb:

I'm still waiting for the day where someone who was born a man get's pregnant though. Someone who can answer life's eternal question - "What hurts more - being kicked in the balls or giving birth?"

*Sigh* someday... :D

That'd completely destroy the mans penis :(

It'd have to be born out of his arse ;)

Please don't picture it in your mind.

digitizedboy
26-01-10, 22:21
That's going to be one confused kid.

HappyShannon
26-01-10, 22:22
Congratulations :) But to a certain extent it is a bit confusing on his gender.



That'd completely destroy the mans penis :(

It'd have to be born out of his arse ;)

Please don't picture it in your mind.

...Too late.
Ohdeargod why would you do this to me?! :hea:
:p:p

tombraiderluka
26-01-10, 22:23
I dislike this very much. I'm ok with people being gay, bi or any sexuality, but this is just absurd. :confused:

Lara's home
26-01-10, 22:26
I dislike this very much. I'm ok with people being gay, bi or any sexuality, but this is just absurd. :confused:

I agree.

Love2Raid
26-01-10, 22:27
I hate it when they say 'the first (or second, in this case) pregnant man!'

It's not a man, there is nothing special about it. Let's take out the uterus and see if he'll get pregnant. Then you can call it a miracle.

But anyway, congrats to them. :)

SamReeves
26-01-10, 22:34
And the world turns with more BS. Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.

igonge
26-01-10, 22:38
Not a man... Why even say that she's a he in the article if he's a she.

tombraiderluka
26-01-10, 22:40
And the world turns with more BS. Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.
Are you talking about sex change?

Psychos'Я'Us
26-01-10, 22:40
Congrats to both men.

tranniversary119
26-01-10, 22:40
It's still not possible for a man to have a baby. He was a she at one point, so I still consider him a she. Just my opinion on things...Congrats either way.

Mad Tony
26-01-10, 22:44
My mom didn't make international news when she got pregnant with me, neither did anyone else I know. This is absurd. They're still women.

Legends
26-01-10, 22:59
They want to change their sex, but they don't want to commit to their decision. Hypocrites.

xXhayleyroxXx
26-01-10, 23:01
congratulations to the pair of them :hug: xxx

Big Matt
26-01-10, 23:41
The article's title is misleading. She isn't a man. She is just a woman who, for whatever reason, tried to hide her womanhood by pretending to be a man. But in the end she can't escape being a woman. Like it or not, a person will always be the gender they were born as.

"What hurts more - being kicked in the balls or giving birth?"

*Sigh* someday... :D

When I was in the hospital with kidney stones the nurses said that female patients who'd had kidney stones claimed that the stones were more painful than giving birth.

As far as I'm concerned, kidney stones and getting hammered in the hardware are definitely in the same ballpark, pain wise. It's a close call but I'd say getting kicked in the baby-makers is probably a little worse -- at least it's somewhat more debilitating.

robm_2007
26-01-10, 23:42
I've never heard of anyone have a sex change to a gay person before

my friend jokes that he wants to get a sex change, that way he can be a lesbian.


but, its not really a pregnant (biological) man. wouldnt the person be legally considered as a woman, if they keep their original private parts? its all so confusing.

Chocola teapot
27-01-10, 00:06
Ouch?

This confuses me thouroughly.

Real Life Raider
27-01-10, 00:36
This confuses me thouroughly.

I'm not the only one then! :o

Legend 4ever
27-01-10, 04:31
How is this confusing? She thought she was a lesbian and then she realized she was transgendered and decided to live in the body she should have been born in. I love how people think that just because you can see something, it's the truth. Who you are mentally is far more important than what's given to you physically.

Ultimate_Lara
27-01-10, 05:18
Here we go again! :p

Tihocan9
27-01-10, 05:24
And the world turns with more BS. Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.

I agree completely. But I will not apologize if I come off as "insensitive" because it is my opinion. I do not understand why if they were women and obviously they like men from their marriage (which I disagree with) why didn't they just stay women and have a normal relationship with a man. No sense whatsoever in this world anymore...

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 07:20
How is this confusing? She thought she was a lesbian and then she realized she was transgendered and decided to live in the body she should have been born in. I love how people think that just because you can see something, it's the truth. Who you are mentally is far more important than what's given to you physically.So does this mean that if I think I'm a woman in my head that makes me a woman, despite all the biological evidence suggesting I'm not? Or, going even further, if I thought of myself as a lion (for example) in my head, does that make me a lion? After all, I should've been born a lion and it's the mentality that's more important.

I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-01-10, 08:01
Really...? Really?

He's biologically female, I'd hardly call that a pregnant man. Seriously.

It's perfectly alright if he feels as if he was born in the wrong body, but I wouldn't go so far as to get the tabloids going about another pregnant man, when scientifically speaking, he's just another pregnant woman.

Personally, I believe that we are all born either male or female (or a hermaphrodite, but that's a different story), and our bodies represent what we truly are. Some people feel like they were born in the wrong body, and I've never had that feeling, so I can't pretend to have full knowledge of it; however, it is of my personal opinion that they simply have a strong desire to be a different sex than they really are. More specifically, merely wanting to choose another gender for whatever reason. I don't really understand the notion of being born in the wrong body, it doesn't make sense to me. As stated by Ben, one could easily say they feel like they were born in the wrong body and should be an animal, and we all know that sounds ridiculous.

Ikas90
27-01-10, 08:06
You can already tell that he is/was a woman just by looking at the picture. There are feminine characteristics to his/her face.

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-01-10, 08:10
They want to change their sex, but they don't want to commit to their decision. Hypocrites.

My thoughts, exactly. :tmb:

Archetype
27-01-10, 08:17
Whats confusing is that they were both born as girls but have ended up together as men o_O

knightgames
27-01-10, 08:35
The world's SECOND pregnant man is 'blissfully happy' should read:

"The world's second attention seeking, confused woman is blissfully happy being pregnant."

I hope they give the kid boxing lessons. He or she will need them.

Rivendell
27-01-10, 09:30
This thread left me jawdropped. Not at the story - after all, it's not the first of its kind - but at the responses in this thread.

john_york
27-01-10, 09:43
This thread left me jawdropped. Not at the story - after all, it's not the first of its kind - but at the responses in this thread.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

My ignore list just grew a lot longer...

eric_khan
27-01-10, 10:53
there should be a media blackout on these disgusting stories...for two reasons;


To stop the kid getting his ass kicked at school
To find out whether the "parent" is doing it just for media attention and money

Jack Croft
27-01-10, 11:19
This article is confusing, I feel so sorry for the children they will be so confused when older. :(

MiCkiZ88
27-01-10, 11:25
So does this mean that if I think I'm a woman in my head that makes me a woman, despite all the biological evidence suggesting I'm not? Or, going even further, if I thought of myself as a lion (for example) in my head, does that make me a lion? After all, I should've been born a lion and it's the mentality that's more important.

I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.And what about the people who do not have specific gender when they are born?

Ilie_Fusarau
27-01-10, 11:30
And the world turns with more BS. Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.
And how does a stranger's decision affect you ? And why do you think your acceptance is important ? You will most definitely never even met him . I think everyone should mind their own business and stop minding about other peoples lives . Life's too short anyway , to waste on pointless hate and unneeded discrimination .

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 11:46
And the world turns with more BS. Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.

Yeah, that's homophobia.

Nenya awakens
27-01-10, 11:57
This thread left me jawdropped. Not at the story - after all, it's not the first of its kind - but at the responses in this thread.

I know, I knew some people we're ignorant but.. not to this extent.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 12:05
It's the story that's bogus. Should never have been written, and we shouldn't be talking about it. It's patently untrue sensationalism. This couple can do what they want; it doesn't bother me. But don't tell me she's a pregnant man, that's all... 'cause it's untrue!

Now, if a transgendered man somehow got pregnant, then you'd have a "pregnant man", but that won't happen anytime soon. I don't doubt that science could make it happen, though... although that would be a stretch.

MattTR
27-01-10, 12:06
Man, woman or not.. it's quite an interesting concept(ion).. :vlol:

Anyways, I am happy for them because they are doing what they want and don't care what others think.

Azerutan
27-01-10, 12:43
See, personally, I don't get this! Why would anyone turn into a male and then wants to have kids? It's so much easier to have kids first and then to turn into a male :vlol: Why do people always take the hardest way?

Anyway, congrats! I wish all the best for the kid and parents :) Considering the ignorance around this world, they are going to need it.

Quasimodo
27-01-10, 12:48
This thread left me jawdropped. Not at the story - after all, it's not the first of its kind - but at the responses in this thread.

I also find it curious that such a gay-friendly forum isn't as accepting toward transgender(trans-sexual?) people.

TRfan23
27-01-10, 12:54
Oh. So it's level 1 youtube responses? Soon level 2.

Lemmie
27-01-10, 13:21
I also find it curious that such a gay-friendly forum isn't as accepting toward transgender(trans-sexual?) people.

Well, that's sometimes true in the real-life gay community as well. I know a few trans people, and they often find that being around gay people isn't much easier than being around straight people, in terms of prejudice.

Tombraiderx08
27-01-10, 13:21
He's preggerz and happy, so good for him, people should just be nice, good grief.

knightgames
27-01-10, 13:24
I also find it curious that such a gay-friendly forum isn't as accepting toward transgender(trans-sexual?) people.

But they aren't transgender. Crossgender maybe? IDK. But in my understanding one gives up one gender to become theother, or IOW becomes the gender who they believe themselves to be.

I personally think it's a very selfish thing to do. I can't or won't argue the merits/disadvantages of their personal choice and how predjudice affects it, but to bring an innocent child into this knowing how perceptions are is foolhearty and possibly very detrimental to the child.

As TRfan alludes: "Level one YouTube comments. Soon level 2." The real world is much crueler.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 13:34
And what about the people who do not have specific gender when they are born?What, having both?

I never even mentioned that. All I said was that being born a man or a woman and thinking in your head that you're the opposite sex doesn't make it true.

Yeah, that's homophobia.How is it? :confused:

Lemmie
27-01-10, 13:39
How is it? :confused:

Saying that there are absolutes to masculinity and femininity, and that everyone should subscribe to one or the other is not only homophobic and transphobic, it also denigrates people's choice to be who they want to be.

SLAYER
27-01-10, 13:44
Now, I'm confused (doesn't take much)!

Is this guy a girl who wants to be a guy but wants to stay a girl, or a guy with girls parts who wants to stay a guy but has to be a girl for now.


im even more confused

They want to change their sex, but they don't want to commit to their decision. Hypocrites.

i agree

Dennis's Mom
27-01-10, 13:48
And how does a stranger's decision affect you ? And why do you think your acceptance is important ? You will most definitely never even met him . I think everyone should mind their own business and stop minding about other peoples lives . Life's too short anyway , to waste on pointless hate and unneeded discrimination .

I would agree with the principle that it's their business, but when they make public announcements, it's becomes my business involuntarily. I'm weary of this Jerry Springer-In-Your-Face-Society where apparently the freedom to do what you want and be what you want isn't enough. By Jove, everyone else needs to hear about it too, and if you don't like it, well, you're just a bigot and a hater. :mad:

Of which I am neither. Mostly I'm just tired of having other people's personal lives broadcast as entertainment and pseudo-tests for "tolerance." These are intimate and personal decisions, that are truly none of my business. I resent being forced to participate even as a part of a viewing audience.

Thrilled he's happy pregnant. Goodness knows I didn't enjoy it much. :ton:

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 13:52
Saying that there are absolutes to masculinity and femininity, and that everyone should subscribe to one or the other is not only homophobic and transphobic, it also denigrates people's choice to be who they want to be.I think all he was saying was that people should stick to the sex they were born as and not try to change it. It's almost as if people want it to be homophobic, when it isn't that at all.

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 13:55
What, having both?

I never even mentioned that. All I said was that being born a man or a woman and thinking in your head that you're the opposite sex doesn't make it true.

How is it? :confused:

Homophobic/transphobic, it's all the same to me.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 14:00
Homophobic/transphobic, it's all the same to me.No, it's not. Homophobia is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they are homosexual, while "transphobia" is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they're transexual or whatever.

Lemmie
27-01-10, 14:00
I think all he was saying was that people should stick to the sex they were born as and not try to change it. It's almost as if people want it to be homophobic, when it isn't that at all.

Well, I didn't take his comment that way. I took it to mean that anything (behaviour, language, personal expression through clothing etc.) that doesn't conform to the traditional binary understanding of 'male' and 'female' is less than acceptable. Which is exactly what he said. In this way it is both homophobic and transphobic; the latter of the two is the bigger issue in this particular thread.

And I certainly believe in people's right to be a different sex than what they were born into. I've never felt that I wanted to be anything other than a man, and until I came to university I had never met people who had to go through this process. I still don't claim to understand it, but saying people should stay as one gender or the other, when it is clear that doing so is making them unhappy is pretty cruel. As well as this, I think it is important for an individual to choose how they want to be identified, rather than for any outside element to slap a label on them.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 14:10
I would agree with the principle that it's their business, but when they make public announcements, it's becomes my business involuntarily. I'm weary of this Jerry Springer-In-Your-Face-Society where apparently the freedom to do what you want and be what you want isn't enough. By Jove, everyone else needs to hear about it too, and if you don't like it, well, you're just a bigot and a hater. :mad:

Of which I am neither. Mostly I'm just tired of having other people's personal lives broadcast as entertainment and pseudo-tests for "tolerance." These are intimate and personal decisions, that are truly none of my business. I resent being forced to participate even as a part of a viewing audience.

I whole-heartedly agree. I've had this sentiment for awhile... and I don't know why others don't understand it.

It is often presented as an "in-your-face-litmus-test" kind of thing. No matter how tolerant you are you grow weary of it eventually.

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 14:11
No, it's not. Homophobia is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they are homosexual, while "transphobia" is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they're transexual or whatever.

Yes, I know, but it all falls under sexual discrimination and one isn't less intolerant than the other.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 14:15
Yes, I know, but it all falls under sexual discrimination and one isn't less intolerant than the other.But the fact remains that just because it might've been transphobic doesn't make it homophobic.

tomblover
27-01-10, 14:21
I couldn't resist.

Obligatory hilarious edit:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1105/preggofail.png

Your_Envy*
27-01-10, 14:22
^ You look so pretty, Peter. :cln:

tomblover
27-01-10, 14:23
^ You look so pretty, Peter. :cln: I hate you. :pi:

Lol, but seriously, well, I guess...

Honestly I believe it's just media whoring. Let them have their goddamn child if they wish, it's not our lives! :p

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 14:24
But the fact remains that just because it might've been transphobic doesn't make it homophobic.

In a general sense, I used the word "homophobic", like prejudice against bisexuals because of there same sex interests I would consider homophobic.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 14:25
This reminds me of a scene from Buffy The Vampire Slayer; where Buffy is accused of not being supportive enough of her friends' personal choices:

BUFFY: "If I were any more supportive of the choices you people make my head would pop open and my brain would fall out!"

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 14:25
In a general sense, I used homophobic, like prejudice against bisexuals because of there same sex interests I would consider homophobic.Prejudice against bisexuals could be classed as homophobic but it's completely different from being prejudiced against someone because they're transexual.

Your_Envy*
27-01-10, 14:29
I hate you. :pi:

Lol, but seriously, well, I guess...

Honestly I believe it's just media whoring. Let them have their goddamn child if they wish, it's not our lives! :p

I love you. :pi:

Technically it is still a female anyway. :p So I don't know why they call it "pregnant man."

tomblover
27-01-10, 14:38
I love you. :pi:

Technically it is still a female anyway. :p So I don't know why they call it "pregnant man."

*Does the twisted love smiley thing*

:p True... I mean really, even if it were a man, it's none of our business.

Rai
27-01-10, 15:02
Good luck to the couple if they are happy. The child will still be brought up in a loving environment.

However, this is not a man having a baby. Biologically s/he is a woman who prefers to be seen as a man, so the article is in the wrong for labeling him/her as a man who is pregnant. I don't have a problem with them being transgender, what puzzles me more is, if they want to be men, why get pregnant? Couldn't they have used a surragate instead? They still could have used Scott's eggs. Talk about have your cake and eat it!

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 15:17
However, this is not a man having a baby. Biologically s/he is a woman who prefers to be seen as a man, so the article is in the wrong for labeling him/her as a man who is pregnant.The people writing the article would no doubt get a lawsuit if they correctly labeled them as women.

T-Sex
27-01-10, 15:18
The people writing the article would no doubt get a lawsuit if they correctly labeled them as women.

Theyre men if they want to be.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 15:20
Theyre men if they want to be.They can see themselves as men if they like, I have no problem with that. As I said before, that doesn't mean they are men though. Men can not give birth to children.

T-Sex
27-01-10, 15:23
They can see themselves as men if they like, I have no problem with that. As I said before, that doesn't mean they are men though. Men can not give birth to children.

I agree, actually :p

TRfan23
27-01-10, 15:42
They can see themselves as men if they like, I have no problem with that. As I said before, that doesn't mean they are men though. Men can not give birth to children.

That I agree with ;)

Though I may not agree with sex changes for the matter, I don't care if anyone did change themselves. Doesn't bother me.

Initially I have nothing against these woman, as biologically they are, seeing as that seems the case. Though I don't think it was necessary to make it public.

GenyaArikado
27-01-10, 15:44
Now the 800000$ question, is the wife of the pregnant "man" lesbian or not?

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 15:50
Now the 800000$ question, is the wife of the pregnant "man" lesbian or not?I'd say yes. They are both women after all.

That is my final answer.

M.A.
27-01-10, 16:09
Wait, if she had already took the operation to be a man physically,..... how the baby gonna come out when the time arrives?! :confused:

Eh, wait.. I just remembered. There's always C-Section. Meh....

But what if it happens when she is nowhere near a medical facility? :eek:

Oh wow. Excuse me while I go and try to stop my sick imagination.... :smk:

MattTR
27-01-10, 16:29
No, it's not. Homophobia is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they are homosexual, while "transphobia" is discrimination or prejudice against somebody because they're transexual or whatever.

Actually, the prefix phobia means fear. Homophobia is the fear of homosexual persons while transphobia is the fear of transgendered persons. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're prejudice is discriminating, FYI. ;)

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 16:33
Actually, the prefix phobia means fear. Homophobia is the fear of homosexual persons while transphobia is the fear of transgendered persons. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're prejudice is discriminating, FYI. ;)I know what phobia means. I didn't feel it necessary however to bring up the whole fear thing because most people who discriminate against others do so because they're different, not because they're scared of them.

That said though, I don't even think Sam's post was discriminatory in any way.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 16:33
Actually, the prefix phobia means fear. Homophobia is the fear of homosexual persons while transphobia is the fear of transgendered persons. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're prejudice is discriminating, FYI. ;)

That's exactly why those terms are so overused, it's not funny. To disapprove of something is not the same as having a phobia. But the term "homophobia" or "transphobia" (which I just heard about today, LOL) are used automatically against anyone who says something even slightly politically incorrect.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 16:34
That's exactly why those terms are so overused, it's not funny. To disapprove of something is not the same as having a phobia. But the term "homophobia" or "transphobia" (which I just heard about today, LOL) are used automatically against anyone who says something even slightly politically incorrect.Oh believe me, I certainly wasn't using those words. And yes, I agree.

MattTR
27-01-10, 16:36
I know what phobia means. I didn't feel it necessary however to bring up the whole fear thing because most people who discriminate against others do so because they're different, not because they're scared of them.

That said though, I don't even think Sam's post was discriminatory in any way.

I was just correcting you, no discrimination was in mind. :D

That's exactly why those terms are so overused, it's not funny. To disapprove of something is not the same as having a phobia. But the term "homophobia" or "transphobia" (which I just heard about today, LOL) are used automatically against anyone who says something even slightly politically incorrect.

Yeah, they're misused in today's society in conjunction with "prejudism" and "discrimination". I guess technically it would be called "homoism".. but that sounds funny. :vlol:

:gay: and proud no matter. :cool:

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 16:42
I was just correcting you, no discrimination was in mind. :DBut I didn't really need correcting, as homophobia is almost universally used to describe prejudice against homosexuals, whether that prejudice is motivated by fear or not. Yeah I know it's not technically right but that's the way it is.

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 16:44
Actually, the prefix phobia means fear. Homophobia is the fear of homosexual persons while transphobia is the fear of transgendered persons. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you're prejudice is discriminating, FYI. ;)

Actually, phobia means fear or hatred.

MattTR
27-01-10, 16:48
Actually, phobia means fear or hatred.

I'm not too sure about that, the two are remotely similar, but definitely don't have the same meaning, at least I don't see how.

Fear and hate are two different terms, I'm positive on that one.

larson n natla
27-01-10, 16:48
As far as I am concerned you have female reproductive organs you are a female and your point is invalid why become a transexual and marry another transexual partner if you want children?

So yes this isn't the worlds second pregnant man nor is the "first" pregnant man because biologically it is impossible. :)

interstellardave
27-01-10, 16:50
Actually, phobia means fear or hatred.

That's a real reach. I saw it listed as a synonym... but hatred isn't a part of any definition I read (and I just checked). Certainly that's not the clinical application either.

robm_2007
27-01-10, 16:53
Actually, phobia means fear or hatred.

i always wondered why ppl that dont like gays were considered "homophobic". ive never know anyone to actually be scared of a gay person, just because they were gay.

MattTR
27-01-10, 16:54
i always wondered why ppl that dont like gays were considered "homophobic". ive never know anyone to actually be scared of a gay person, just because they were gay.

Exactly. They aren't homophobic, they are prejudice. Hatred and disliking are totally different levels anyway.. :whi:

Lemmie
27-01-10, 17:05
That's exactly why those terms are so overused, it's not funny. To disapprove of something is not the same as having a phobia. But the term "homophobia" or "transphobia" (which I just heard about today, LOL) are used automatically against anyone who says something even slightly politically incorrect.

I think that the disapproval has to be thought about very carefully. For example, why does someone disapprove of something that really is none of their business, and which doesn't affect their lives, or anyone else's life? Why doesn't someone support the individual's choice to express themselves however they wish? If they can't think of a rational reason, when phobia is classically defined as an irrational fear, then surely they have a phobia of whatever they disapprove of. Although this is open to interpretation I suppose.

Although I understand that people might have a concern about transgendered couples having children, and whether this negates their chosen gender, it is ultimately none of my business, much as in the case of a sixty year old woman having IVF and having a child. But the majority of the criticism in this thread hasn't really related, as far as I can see, to their having children. A lot of what has been said is relating to the actual appelation of their gender.

To say that:

Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.

...is to promote an attitude that does not recognise the variety of gender, both biologically and behaviourally, that occurs between what is societally considered typically male and typically female. This includes being transgender, inter-sex, androgyne, and to a lesser extent, homosexual or bisexual (and many other kinds of -sexual). Saying that someone should be something that they might not want to be is pushing a larger societal opinion over an individual's choice for no good reason other than the kind of irrational disapproval that I outilined above. Also talking about a lack of acceptance of anything less than gender binary norms...well...

Clearly I and others in this thread find this statement offensive, for good reasons I would say. Others do not, for reasons that I don't think add up. But that's a difference of opinion I guess, even if one opinion is better based on fact and belief in personal freedoms than the other.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 17:10
I think that the disapproval has to be thought about very carefully. For example, why does someone disapprove of something that really is none of their business, and which doesn't affect their lives, or anyone else's life? Why doesn't someone support the individual's choice to express themselves however they wish?

It's not always disapproval, especially in my case. It's just growing weary of "the test"... and, make no mistake, these days your tolerance is tested whether you want it to be or not, by people who are not just seeking their own happiness, but the complete silencing of any dissenting voice (however faint).

I refer you to Dennis's Mom's excellant post (which I was the only one who read it, apparently):

I would agree with the principle that it's their business, but when they make public announcements, it's becomes my business involuntarily. I'm weary of this Jerry Springer-In-Your-Face-Society where apparently the freedom to do what you want and be what you want isn't enough. By Jove, everyone else needs to hear about it too, and if you don't like it, well, you're just a bigot and a hater. :mad:

Of which I am neither. Mostly I'm just tired of having other people's personal lives broadcast as entertainment and pseudo-tests for "tolerance." These are intimate and personal decisions, that are truly none of my business. I resent being forced to participate even as a part of a viewing audience.

MattTR
27-01-10, 17:14
Sorry I'm not sensitive or whatever…but men should be men. Women should be women. I do not accept anything less.

Clearly I and others in this thread find this statement offensive, for good reasons I would say. Others do not, for reasons that I don't think add up. But that's a difference of opinion I guess, even if one opinion is better based on fact and belief in personal freedoms than the other.

That statement doesn't bother me really, because it's irrelevant and doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What is the definition of a man? What is the definition of a woman?

I have male organs, that makes me a man right? If someone changed their organs, then they are who they want to be or feel they should be. :p I have the right to love a man, that doesn't make me any less of a man, and me and others sure as hell know it! :tmb: :D

SamReeves
27-01-10, 17:21
And how does a stranger's decision affect you ? And why do you think your acceptance is important ? You will most definitely never even met him . I think everyone should mind their own business and stop minding about other peoples lives . Life's too short anyway , to waste on pointless hate and unneeded discrimination .

Thank God I'll never meet them.

As said previously, why does this pair want to be attention freaks and get their names in the newspaper? The only result of this story is to show how ridiculous this whole charade is. Only women can only bear children. To say that a man can bear a child is a lie IMO.

Yeah, that's homophobia.

I was speaking on gender, not on sexuality but thanks for the label. I still don't accept gender bending of any kind.

woody543
27-01-10, 17:26
This reminds me of a scene from Buffy The Vampire Slayer; where Buffy is accused of not being supportive enough of her friends' personal choices:

BUFFY: "If I were any more supportive of the choices you people make my head would pop open and my brain would fall out!"

Let's not turn this into one of the buffy arguments :P :D

I have no problem with them, my issue is with the media, do they have nothing else to report about, I mean if these two men, want to be happy together and live like normal people why do they feel the need to sell there story to the papers? surely that's just fueling any sort of hatred.

Lemmie
27-01-10, 17:26
I refer you to Dennis's Mom's excellant post (which I was the only one who read it, apparently):

No I did indeed read this post. It was a good point and I agree that events like this don't always have to be in the public forum. Besides the fact that, in the strictest biological sense, this person is still a woman and can get pregnant, is not surprising. The thing that makes it "newsworthy" is that this couple self-identify as gay men (I think, as gathered from the article).

Of course, the article in question does come from the Daily Mail, which often latches onto "shock stories" like this. Other media may well have passed it over; I don't know. However, I am entirely unsurprised that the Daily Mail reported on this. I only didn't refer to Dennis's Mom's post because it represents a point of view with which I have no beef.

That statement doesn't bother me really, because it's irrelevant and doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What is the definition of a man? What is the definition of a woman?

You're right. There's no real point getting het up about a statement from someone who has little understanding about these issues.

I was speaking on gender, not on sexuality but thanks for the label. I still don't accept gender bending of any kind.

'Gender bending' can also encompass homosexuality. I don't think anyone need label you but yourself.

TRhalloween
27-01-10, 17:41
I was speaking on gender, not on sexuality but thanks for the label. I still don't accept gender bending of any kind.

Well, they don't need your permission now, do they?

interstellardave
27-01-10, 17:45
Well, they don't need your permission now, do they?

He's not telling them what to do... they aren't on this forum. He's just commenting on an article posted here; on a forum where comments are invited.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 17:54
on a forum where comments are invited.Not if the left-leaning majority of the forum don't agree with them. :p

SamReeves
27-01-10, 17:57
Well, they don't need your permission now, do they?

Of course not. They can be as dumb as they want to be!

Lemmie
27-01-10, 18:01
Not if the left-leaning majority of the forum don't agree with them. :p

Yeah, because we're the censors. Thank goodness we're not the kind of people who don't "accept" gender bending of any sort.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:05
Yeah, because we're the censors. Thank goodness we're not the kind of people who don't "accept" gender bending of any sort.Nope, but people on here are certainly hostile towards those with views which differ from the majority on here.

It's not about "accepting" it, I just think it's a bit silly. You can't change the sex you were born as. That is a fact.

SamReeves
27-01-10, 18:11
Nope, but people on here are certainly hostile towards those with views which differ from the majority on here.

It's not about "accepting" it, I just think it's a bit silly. You can't change the sex you were born as. That is a fact.

Agreed. And trying to say that gender bending is really the norm is a dishonest practice. I know the same characters on this forum love to play the rhetoric games, but play by yourself on this dumb story.

Women are mothers, and men are fathers. Those roles are not interchangeable at all.

GameGlitcher77
27-01-10, 18:13
Ouch?

This confuses me thouroughly.

Seconded^^^ It confuses me just thinking about it. *falls over* :confused:

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:17
Nope, but people on here are certainly hostile towards those with views which differ from the majority on here.

It's not about "accepting" it, I just think it's a bit silly. You can't change the sex you were born as. That is a fact.

Actually you can with surgeries and hormones. That's a fact.
Just look at Amanda Lepore. Where is she a guy?
You can change your sex. Why is it so hard for some people to accept?
What if you were born with a mans body but were 100% sure that wasn't your real body? That you were trapped in a wrong boy? Shot cho ase up about things you will never experience

Too me my body doesn't make me a guy. It's my personality. I could have a girls personality but still have a mans body. Then I would be 100% sure that I'm a girl with wrong body.
Cause I'm pretty sure you aren't counting yourself as a man just because you were born with and have a dick

TRfan23
27-01-10, 18:17
Well at least I've found a much more difficult subject to discuss about that doesn't concern myself :)

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:20
hmmm, no comment ! If they're happy that's fine...they're not bothering. However, imo, they ARE women.
If they have a uterus and the baby is in the uterus then they are women.

I'd love to write more but I'm kinda sleepy so I'll just say a few things.

Sex is determined by the sex-related chromosomes as we all know (pair number 23), so even if you change your sex by removing some organs and adding others and pumping a few hormones for hair growth or whatever, your genes would still have the same XX or XY pair, so biologically, you ARE still the same sex.
and seeing as you really cant say that these 2 women are men now just as much as you can't say they're not, it wasn't a good thing to publicize it as if its a fact "Second man".
To me its still a woman because she was born a female but wanted to be the other gender.

but good luck to them and whatever floats their boat.

Lemmie
27-01-10, 18:21
Nope, but people on here are certainly hostile towards those with views which differ from the majority on here.

It's not about "accepting" it, I just think it's a bit silly. You can't change the sex you were born as. That is a fact.

Well, I'm supposing that you haven't met many people who are transgender. I know one or two, and a friend knows many more in her hometown. I don't understand very much about it, and I can't pretend to know how it feels.

Changing the gender identity as many will know, involves hormones and other medication, cosmetic surgery and internal surgeries - many of which an individual cannot access until they have been living as their preferred gender for a sufficient length of time, at least in the UK. This, I assume, is to ensure that a) they are totally prepared for the forthcoming treatments and b) that the NHS doesn't get any kind of blowback regarding a person's satisfaction with surgery or hormone treatments.

Suffice to say that in undergoing this process the individual will face discrimination from many in their community as well as, very often, their own family. They will often encounter psychological and (unfortunately) physical pain as a result of this and their transition process. This is not "silly". This is important to individuals, their families and their friends. Saying that you cannot change your gender and that this is fact, is to misunderstand the both the problems of transgender people and to minimise the importance of gender in their lives.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:24
Actually you can with surgeries and hormones. That's a fact.
Just look at Amanda Lepore. Where is she a guy?
You can change your sex. Why is it so hard for some people to accept?
What if you were born with a dick and stuffs but were 100% sure that wasn't your real body? That you were trapped in a wrong boy? Shot cho ase up about things you will never experienceNope. I'm sorry, but no matter how many hormones you take or how many operations you have there is still no way of actually changing your gender. Biologically, both of the people in this article are still female.

If you are born with the anatomy of a male but for some reason think you are a female in your head that doesn't make it so. As I said before, in my head I am a lion. Of course, my body is that of a human male but that's not how I feel. Going by your logic I am classed as a lion "because I'm trapped in the wrong body".

Of course I don't really think this, but I'm making a point. I just find the notion "you can be whatever sex you want to be if you think it" ridiculous.

I never claimed to have experience, but common sense, science and logic tell me that you can't change your gender.

TRfan23
27-01-10, 18:25
I must admit the ones who are saying it's wrong, disgusting, and stuff like their children can be picked on when they go to school etc... Is a bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say? :o

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:27
Nope. I'm sorry, but no matter how many hormones you take or how many operations you have there is still no way of actually changing your gender. Biologically, both of the people in this article are still female.

If you are born with the anatomy of a male but for some reason think you are a female in your head that doesn't make it so. As I said before, in my head I am a lion. Of course, my body is that of a human male but that's not how I feel. Going by your logic I am classed as a lion "because I'm trapped in the wrong body".

I never claimed to have experience, but common sense, science and logic tell me that you can't change your gender.

Some people see them self as the opposite sex they were born with and some as no sex at all.
I'm a guy because of my personality and how I feel and not just because of my dick. And IMO feeling that you are the wrong sex isn't the same as feeling that you are the wrong creature.
You clearly don't know anything about the subject and have probably never even talked with a transsexual. I know many transsexuals on the internet and one IRL. But most of the times it seem like we HBT people are more open minded. If a man who have become a woman feels like a woman. Then it IS a woman.

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:27
^ I think we are all hypocrites to some degree. A lot of times we just see what we wanna see, and we don't see certain angles of our opinions and posts that others do see, same with the others (they don't see something but we do). :)

interstellardave
27-01-10, 18:29
I could take hormones and get breast implants, etc. The whole nine yards. I would still not be a woman... I may have the appearance of a woman, etc., but there would still be differences that would remain; they just may not be apparent.

But I could live and act as a woman... that's for sure. So what difference does semantics make?

knightgames
27-01-10, 18:30
Actually you can with surgeries and hormones. That's a fact.
Just look at Amanda Lepore. Where is she a guy?
You can change your sex. Why is it so hard for some people to accept?
What if you were born with a mans body but were 100% sure that wasn't your real body? That you were trapped in a wrong boy? Shot cho ase up about things you will never experience

Too me my body doesn't make me a guy. It's my personality. I could have a girls personality but still have a mans body. Then I would be 100% sure that I'm a girl with wrong body.
Cause I'm pretty sure you aren't counting yourself as a man just because you were born with and have a dick

So you're saying it's a birth defect?

You mean this Amanda Lepore?
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e354/knightgames/000001amanda-lepore.jpg




ULTIMATELY I'm fine with whatever if they are happy and aren't bothering/hurting me. I'm pretty much live and let live.

I just think it's wrong to bring a kid into this when it is he who WILL face many of the repercussions of their decision.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:30
Some people see them self as the opposite sex they were born with and some as no sex at all.
I'm a guy because of my personality and how I feel and not just because of my dick. And IMO feeling that you are the wrong sex isn't the same as feeling that you are the wrong creature.
You clearly don't know anything about the subject and have probably never even talked with a transsexual. I know many transsexuals on the internet and one IRL. But most of the times it seem like we HBT people are more open minded. If a man who have become a woman feels like a woman. Then it IS a woman.Personality does not define gender. In essence you are saying that men who act camp or effeminate are in actual fact women.

Cool, so I can be a lion now?

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:31
I could take hormones and get breast implants, etc. The whole nine yards. I would still not be a woman... I may have the appearance of a woman, etc., but there would still be differences that would remain; they just may not be apparent.

But I could live and act as a woman... that's for sure. So what difference does semantics make?

You could live and act like a woman, you could have the same appearance as a woman, you could feel like a woman, you could have taken hormones, got breast implants and have a new vagina. Then IMO you are a woman. Maybe not 100% but you are still far away from being a man.
I don't care about chromosomes and stuffs like that.
They still haven't found a valid explanation about homo and bisexuality. So I don't care what they say about transsexualism.

Personality does not define gender. In essence you are saying that men who act camp or effeminate are in actual fact women.

Cool, so I can be a lion now?

No but with hormones and surgeries and stuffs. You have no reason to even write in this thread or talk about transsexuals. You have no respect AT ALL

So you're saying it's a birth defect?

ULTIMATELY I'm fine with whatever if they are happy and aren't bothering/hurting me. I'm pretty much live and let live.

I just think it's wrong to bring a kid into this when it is he who WILL face many of the repercussions of their decision.

Yes that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
And I guess you are right. We homos, bisexuals, transvestites and transsexuals have no rights to get children. :rolleyes:

And yes I'm talking about THIS Amanda Lepore (you could have chosen a better pic)
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/47/61/amanda-lepore-actress.0.0.0x0.432x432.jpeg

TRfan23
27-01-10, 18:35
Now I'm starting to get angry btw.


No but with hormones and surgeries and stuffs. You have no reason to even write in this thread or talk about transsexuals. You have no respect AT ALL

He is interested in politics so what do you expect? Politians are inhumane and have no emotions. "Don't do as I do, but do as I say" ;)

*runs away*

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:37
No but with hormones and surgeries and stuffs. You have no reason to even write in this thread or talk about transsexuals. You have no respect AT ALLStill doesn't mean you can change your sex. Why is it you have trouble understanding this?

I'm not bashing transsexuals, I'm just saying that you can't change your gender, no matter how much you act.

Neither do you to be honest, what with telling people to shut up and all just because you don't agree with them. I think you just proved my earlier point about certain people on here being hostile towards those with different views (or in my case simply stating a fact).


He is interested in politics so what do you expect? Politians are inhumane and have no emotions. "Don't do as I do, but do as I say" ;)

*runs away*But I'm not a politician. :confused: Sometimes you really confuse me...

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:39
Now I'm starting to get angry btw.



He is interested in politics so what do you expect? Politians are inhumane and have no emotions. "Don't do as I do, but do as I say" ;)

*runs away*

I'm afraid that's true. He's so ignorant. God I hate when people talk about something they haven't got a clue about.

Mokono
27-01-10, 18:40
Actually you can with surgeries and hormones. That's a fact.
Just look at Amanda Lepore. Where is she a guy?
You can change your sex. Why is it so hard for some people to accept?
What if you were born with a mans body but were 100% sure that wasn't your real body? That you were trapped in a wrong boy? Shot cho ase up about things you will never experience

Too me my body doesn't make me a guy. It's my personality. I could have a girls personality but still have a mans body. Then I would be 100% sure that I'm a girl with wrong body.
Cause I'm pretty sure you aren't counting yourself as a man just because you were born with and have a dick

XX = woman
XY = man

That also is a fact, i think i said this before: sex is something you will never be able to change unless you modify your genies or clone yourself with significant chromosomatic party changes. Gender, however, has become optional these days as well as the "Oh, blame you misfortune! For shall i've been born as a woman that lies inside a man body" argument has become very cliché. This "male" is not really a male, is a transgendered female, wich is also a fact. The case is even more complex, because they're technically a lesbian couple that had turned into "physical" men. So it also proves that is not the common "i like/dislike how [gender name gere] looks", but a real love what determines sexual orientation, or a combination of both? Interesting, so interesting...

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:40
I'm afraid that's true. He's so ignorant. God I hate when people talk about something they haven't got a clue about.I didn't know stating a fact (that you can't change your sex) made me ignorant.

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:42
Still doesn't mean you can change your sex. Why is it you have trouble understanding this?

I'm not bashing transsexuals, I'm just saying that you can't change your gender, no matter how much you act.

Neither do you to be honest, what with telling people to shut up and all just because you don't agree with them. I think you just proved my earlier point about certain people on here being hostile towards those with different views (or in my case simply stating a fact).


But why o you care? If someone feels like the other sex do you have to spoil it by talking about science and all that?
Just accept how some people feel.
And there's nothing I have to understand.
and you are not stating a fact. you are saying your OPINION.
Do you even know a transsexual? Do you even care how they feel? I guess no and that's why you should shut up

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:43
Ok, these Amanda Lepore pics are a thread kill. :p


Edit: Simochka, its not about why he cares and that he's spoiling it for them. I don't think Ben really cares what they do to themselves. He's talking about the way the article is presented.

"The second pregnant man"

This is a subjective matter and not eveyone agrees that these 2 are men right now, regardless of what they think the are, so its not right to publicize like that, saying like its a fact and promoting that men, men who have 0% female organs, can be pregnant and have babies.

knightgames
27-01-10, 18:44
You could live and act like a woman, you could have the same appearance as a woman, you could feel like a woman, you could have taken hormones, got breast implants and have a new vagina. Then IMO you are a woman. Maybe not 100% but you are still far away from being a man.
I don't care about chromosomes and stuffs like that.
They still haven't found a valid explanation about homo and bisexuality. So I don't care what they say about transsexualism.



No but with hormones and surgeries and stuffs. You have no reason to even write in this thread or talk about transsexuals. You have no respect AT ALL



Yes that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
And I guess you are right. We homos, bisexuals, transvestites and transsexuals have no rights to get children. :rolleyes:

And yes I'm talking about THIS Amanda Lepore (you could have chosen a better pic)
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/47/61/amanda-lepore-actress.0.0.0x0.432x432.jpeg


That one's photoshopped within an inch of it's life.

"We homos, bisexuals, transvestites and transsexuals have no rights to get children." Where did you get THAT from my post? I've NEVER EVER on this forum or anywhere else refered to someone as a homo or other derogatory remark. My opinion on having children is based on the 'unnecessary' hardships placed upon the child. You CAN'T deny this child will have a tough row to hoe. I think it's selfish of them to do so. It's an opinion. I COULD be wrong. BUT I NEVER refered to them in a derogatory way. Got it?

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:44
But why o you care? If someone feels like the other sex do you have to spoil it by talking about science and all that?
Just accept how some people feel.
And there's nothing I have to understand.
and you are not stating a fact. you are saying your OPINION.
Do you even know a transsexual? Do you even care how they feel? I guess no and that's why you should shut upPeople are perfectly entitled to feel what they like.

Saying I think going through with all the operations is silly was an opinion. Saying you can't change your sex is a fact. Don't believe me? That's your problem.

And I'm disrespectful? Excuse me but I'm not the one hurling insults at people and telling them to shut up.

TRfan23
27-01-10, 18:45
But I'm not a politician. :confused: Sometimes you really confuse me...

Sorry I was getting angry about it all, and you just going so indepth with science etc. So I took your hobby of politics and used it as an assumption that anyone who gets into the subject, becomes emotionless and deceitful, based on the stuff going on here :(

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:46
XX = woman
XY = man

That also is a fact, i think i said this before: sex is something you will never be able to change unless you modify your genies or clone yourself with significant chromosomatic party changes. Gender, however, has become optional these days as well as the "Oh, blame you misfortune! For shall i've been born as a woman that lies inside a man body" argument has become very cliché. This "male" is not really a male, is a transgendered female, wich is also a fact. The case is even more complex, because they're technically a lesbian couple that had turned into "physical" men. So it also proves that is not the common "i like/dislike how [gender name gere] looks", but a real love what determines sexual orientation, or a combination of both? Interesting, so interesting...

I don't care about XY and xughwsujghkdlfjheq

As I've already said they are not 100% woman/men. But I don't care about these things. If someone feels like opposite sex and change their whole body then THEY ARE THE OPPOSITE SEX.
Maybe not all the chromosome stuffs.

But as long as they feel like the opposite sex then thats what counts

People are perfectly entitled to feel what they like.

Saying I think going through with all the operations is silly was an opinion. Saying you can't change your sex is a fact. Don't believe me? That's your problem.

And I'm disrespectful? Excuse me but I'm not the one hurling insults at people and telling them to shut up.

Yes I think you are disrespectful. I know there's at least one transsexual at this forum. And being a transsexual and read stuffs like ''they are still a man/ woman because of their chromosomes YX and XWYU'' I don't even know how that may feel. Maybe they know it's true maybe they think its REALLY offensive

Mona Sax
27-01-10, 18:46
Nobody has to shut up here. I can recommend relaxing music and a cup of camomile tea, though. ;)

Seriously, folks, play nice or don't play at all.

Saying you can't change your sex is a fact.
No, that's an opinion. My opinion is that everything can be changed.

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:48
But why o you care? If someone feels like the other sex do you have to spoil it by talking about science and all that?
Just accept how some people feel.
And there's nothing I have to understand.
and you are not stating a fact. you are saying your OPINION.
Do you even know a transsexual? Do you even care how they feel? I guess no and that's why you should shut up

just in case my post was missed :)

Simochka, its not about why he cares and that he's spoiling it for them. I don't think Ben really cares what they do to themselves. He's talking about the way the article is presented.

"The second pregnant man"

This is a subjective matter and not eveyone agrees that these 2 are men right now, regardless of what they think the are, so its not right to publicize like that, saying like its a fact and promoting that men, men who have 0% female organs, can be pregnant and have babies.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:49
No, that's an opinion. My opinion is that everything can be changed.I'm afraid it's not Mona, not yet anyway. Maybe in the future someday, but not right now.

lara c. fan
27-01-10, 18:51
I'm afraid it's not Mona, not yet anyway. Maybe in the future someday, but not right now.

I reckon they could...
I mean, they can clone genes, alleles etc, take genes, alleles etc out (I think...)

Mona Sax
27-01-10, 18:51
I'm afraid it's not Mona, not yet anyway. Maybe in the future someday, but not right now.
Does the changeability of an object depend on whether it is technically possible at a particular point in time?

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:51
just in case my post was missed :)

Simochka, its not about why he cares and that he's spoiling it for them. I don't think Ben really cares what they do to themselves. He's talking about the way the article is presented.

"The second pregnant man"

This is a subjective matter and not eveyone agrees that these 2 are men right now, regardless of what they think the are, so its not right to publicize like that, saying like its a fact and promoting that men, men who have 0% female organs, can be pregnant and have babies.

I don't see the women in the article as men. Cause a transsexual would never be able to get pregnant as far as i know.

But still. This will be the last thing I'm saying is. I see transsexualism as something mental and not something physique
And if people don't agree with me then fine. I'm done here

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:52
I don't care about XY and xughwsujghkdlfjheq

but that's how it is :confused: Its science and proven. We have genes that control a lot of our characteristics and bodily functions. Yes, there could be XXY and other combination, as well as different amount of hormones that may have an effect on our body.

But implanting breasts and taking hormones doesn't change XX to XY or XY to XX...as far as I know


I don't see the women in the article as men. Cause a transsexual would never be able to get pregnant as far as i know.

ahhh, but you see, :) that's what the title of the article implies. "The second pregnant man"
and that is, as I take it, is what is bothering some people.

HappyShannon
27-01-10, 18:53
I reckon they could...
I mean, they can clone genes, alleles etc, take genes, alleles etc out (I think...)

Aye. :tmb:

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 18:53
Does the changeability of an object depend on whether it is technically possible at a particular point in time?I don't know. That's a good question actually. Still, right now at least you cannot change your sex. This therefore means that this couple are still women.

Simochka
27-01-10, 18:54
ignore this post (:

Dennis's Mom
27-01-10, 18:55
I think this quote from My Fair Lady applies:

"You see, Mrs. Higgins, apart from the things one can pick up, the difference between a lady and a flower girl isn't how she behaves, but how she is treated.

I'll always be a flower girl to Professor Higgins because he always treats me as a flower girl and always will.

I'll always be a lady to Colonel Pickering because he always treats me as a lady and always will."

In the end, X's and Y's don't really matter, because in so many ways what truly defines man/woman, boy/girl, male/female are behaviors, both on the giving and receiving end.

interstellardave
27-01-10, 18:56
You could live and act like a woman, you could have the same appearance as a woman, you could feel like a woman, you could have taken hormones, got breast implants and have a new vagina. Then IMO you are a woman. Maybe not 100% but you are still far away from being a man.

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/47/61/amanda-lepore-actress.0.0.0x0.432x432.jpeg


Well, in light of this topic the differences are very important. This man is giving birth--because he still has a uterus and all those internal workings... it's the female part of him that's important to this topic; and it's why saying "a man is pregnant" is just misleading.

BTW, I've seen better looking trannies than this one. :pi:

Mokono
27-01-10, 18:57
I don't care about XY and xughwsujghkdlfjheq

As I've already said they are not 100% woman/men. But I don't care about these things. If someone feels like opposite sex and change their whole body then THEY ARE THE OPPOSITE SEX.
Maybe not all the chromosome stuffs.

But as long as they feel like the opposite sex then thats what counts

My bad, i think i mixed terms in my previous post. I meant that sex (man/woman) with the social labels and costumes it circunscribes can be changed at will, but the gender (male/female) remains "unchangeable", since it has to deal with chromosomes. I apologize for the reaction i provoked, but i'm glad you mentioned feelings, because i never said tha chromosomes define the way one person feels about their body nor about another person.

jjbennett
27-01-10, 18:57
ignore this post (:
Hormones and chromosones are two different things mate.

ShadyCroft
27-01-10, 18:57
True, I do not know a lot about the subject. I do not know what some of the things done in a sex change operation are...

so you say some of them get breasts through hormones. I could think its possible, sort of stimulate the creation of new cells, breast tissues.

But do you know if that changes the sex-related genes from say XY to XX ?

Mokono
27-01-10, 19:00
No, it doesn't. It just supresses other commands and tells cells what proteins to synthetize and what not. If it was that easy, then XO related genetical cases could have been treated that way.

Simochka
27-01-10, 19:01
True, I do not know a lot about the subject. I do not know what some of the things done in a sex change operation are...

so you say some of them get breasts through hormones. I could think its possible, sort of stimulate the creation of new cells, breast tissues.

But do you know if that changes the sex-related genes from say XY to XX ?

Nah. But I still don't see in what way these chromosomes makes you the sex you were born with. A transsexual may still be the same sex they were born with thanks to the chromosomes. But when looking at their bodies, personality, behavior, how they move etc.. They are obviously the sex they changed to:confused:

Hormones and chromosones are two different things mate.

I had no idea :rolleyes:

Well, in light of this topic the differences are very important. This man is giving birth--because he still has a uterus and all those internal workings... it's the female part of him that's important to this topic; and it's why saying "a man is pregnant" is just misleading.

BTW, I've seen better looking trannies than this one. :pi:

Amanda Lepore was a example. :p
BTW she's a transsexual and not a transvestite. (tranny= transvestite)

My bad, i think i mixed terms in my previous post. I meant that sex (man/woman) with the social labels and costumes it circunscribes can be changed at will, but the gender (male/female) remains "unchangeable", since it has to deal with chromosomes. I apologize for the reaction i provoked, but i'm glad you mentioned feelings, because i never said tha chromosomes define the way one person feels about their body nor about another person.

Yeah. I think if some person feels like the opposite sex and spend lots of money to change their bodies to it. Then they are the opposite sex
I know the chromosomes wont change but they are obviously not the sex they were born with

Lemmie
27-01-10, 19:01
In the end, X's and Y's don't really matter, because in so many ways what truly defines man/woman, boy/girl, male/female are behaviors, both on the giving and receiving end.

That's a fantastic point!

interstellardave
27-01-10, 19:04
Is there technically a 3rd sex now, btw? I thought I heard that some people liked being "in the middle" and were actually planning on staying that way. Guys who are as femmed-up as could be but still kept their penises, and women who were guyed-up as much as possible but still keeping their vaginas.

:confused:

Amanda Lepore was a example. :p
BTW she's a transsexual and not a transvestite. (tranny= transvestite)

Hmmm I didn't know the term, then. I used it meaning transsexuals. And what of the above catagory, where they don't "go all the way"? Are they trannies?

(I once worked in an adult bookstore, so that's where I get these word associations).

Sharon_14
27-01-10, 19:06
wishes all the best to them, it seems that soon all of these "men" giving birth would be a normal thing?

Simochka
27-01-10, 19:07
Is there technically a 3rd sex now, btw? I thought I heard that some people liked being "in the middle" and were actually planning on staying that way. Guys who are as femmed-up as could be but still kept their penises, and women who were guyed-up as much as possible but still keeping their vaginas.

:confused:

Some people feels like men, some like women. some as both and some as no of them.

And the thing you explained sounds like shemales :p

BTW there's also something called intersexual. I could be born with a penis but also have a women body and curves and stuffs like that

interstellardave
27-01-10, 19:08
Yeah, shemales... I couldn't think of the term, LOL!

It's a wild world out there, folks!

larafan25
27-01-10, 19:11
People who have had a sex change to a male prefere to be called male, as thats what they want to be (vise versa as well) Therefor this is a man, however he has female organs. He is being called He most likely out of respect as that is His best wishes, generally the case.

There nothing wrong with this, however it is not ground breaking like "OMG women are not needed to make babies"

He is just a pregnant man.:)

Lemmie
27-01-10, 19:13
Is there technically a 3rd sex now, btw? I thought I heard that some people liked being "in the middle" and were actually planning on staying that way. Guys who are as femmed-up as could be but still kept their penises, and women who were guyed-up as much as possible but still keeping their vaginas.

:confused:


There are people who are intersex, who have both male and female genitalia - there are lots of genetic differences of those who have aspects of both male and female gender.

Didn't you hear about the South Africa athlete Caster Semenya last summer?

BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8214094.stm).

Also a discussion on the BBC website about how you define sex (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8250609.stm).

interstellardave
27-01-10, 19:14
If they every figure out how to transfer people--that quintessential "it" that is you, call it a soul or spirit or whatever--into new, different, bodies then all this will be meaningless. Then everyone would probably be great looking men or women or shemales, or whatever.

Mad Tony might even get to be a Lion, literally, LOL!


There are people who are intersex, who have both male and female genitalia - there are lots of genetic differences of those who have aspects of both male and female gender.

Didn't you hear about the South Africa athlete Caster Semenya last summer?

BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8214094.stm).

Also a discussion on the BBC website about how you define sex (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8250609.stm).


Yeah, there's that too. I was just thinking of people who choose to be half and half... like they undergo the typical sex change procedure but stop before the "good stuff" gets changed!

Your_Envy*
27-01-10, 19:17
You can also have just one X - it's called Turner syndrome. The person with that syndrome is a female.
Then there is XXY, called Klinefelter's syndrome. The person with this syndrome is a male.

Chromosomes are important, look at this people with this syndromes. You can't say they look normal without one chromosome or with one more. You are a female with XX and male with XY and nothing can change that. And a guy can't be pregnant, no way, at least not now. You need female organs for that. So this is a pregnant woman for me. :p

LaraLuvrrr
27-01-10, 19:57
There has been no pregnant "men" only pregnant transsexuals.

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 20:05
i'm very surprised by some of the posts in this thread, most of which aren't congratulating.
I posted before congratulating them - because i would congratulate anyone expecting a baby - and these men (since they would like to be seen that way) seem like loving and doting parents.
I'm happy for them!

Your_Envy*
27-01-10, 20:35
Well that thread was also meant for discussion, not only for congratulating, don't you think? :) I am happy for them too, like I'd be happy for everyone, who is expecting a baby.

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 20:47
Well that thread was also meant for discussion, not only for congratulating, don't you think? :) I am happy for them too, like I'd be happy for everyone, who is expecting a baby.

oh yeah definately - i meant what some poeple have said is a bit harsh

sandygrimm
27-01-10, 20:57
O_o
I dunno, this thing is waaaayyy to out of bounds.. I'm all for indifference, but I don't like this idea. But, hell, if hey anna suffer childbirth :D leaves a burdon off or back...
Just weird.. why men ..pregnant....why?

TRLegendLuver
27-01-10, 21:20
Ewww, this is repulsive.

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 22:04
i'm very surprised by some of the posts in this thread, most of which aren't congratulating.
I posted before congratulating them - because i would congratulate anyone expecting a baby - and these men (since they would like to be seen that way) seem like loving and doting parents.
I'm happy for them!So loving that they made a big thing about this and their child will inevitably not lead a normal life thanks to their attention whoring. Poor kid.

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 22:06
So loving that they made a big thing about this and their child will inevitably not lead a normal life thanks to their attention whoring. Poor kid.

its just my opinion - i see nothing wrong with it. The other kids are fine with it

HappyShannon
27-01-10, 22:06
Ewww, this is repulsive.

Is it? :o

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 22:07
Is it? :o

i think its cute! :p

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 22:12
its just my opinion - i see nothing wrong with it. The other kids are fine with itWhat other kids?

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 22:14
What other kids?

the other kids mentioned in the article - read it

Mad Tony
27-01-10, 22:24
the other kids mentioned in the article - read itReally?

My son Logan was bullied

And you can bet that because this pregnancy has gained so much attention this new child will be bullied too.

moodydog
27-01-10, 22:26
scott still has female argans, so technically is still a woman

if he/ she wanted to, could he/she get resurgery back to a female and be 100% female?

xXhayleyroxXx
27-01-10, 22:27
Really?



And you can bet that because this pregnancy has gained so much attention this new child will be bullied too.

yeah but he says the bullying doesnt affect them - the new baby would have brothers to support him if it happens

larafan25
27-01-10, 22:28
So loving that they made a big thing about this and their child will inevitably not lead a normal life thanks to their attention whoring. Poor kid.

you're statement is an example of "thank god this kid will grow up to understand such things"

IMO more people in the world need to experience things that are not the norm. Someone is proud that they can have a baby and live the life of the gender they always felt was right is perfectly fine. The kids theat get to know their child and become friends with their child will be able to understand this situation as they grow too.

He is happy, think of it as a learning experience for everyone around them.

Rai
27-01-10, 22:30
scott still has female argans, so technically is still a woman

if he/ she wanted to, could he/she get resurgery back to a female and be 100% female?

I believe so. S/he would have to stop the hormone treatment and have breast reconstruction and then after time s/he'd be back as a whole women. I've heard of a transgender going through the whole reversal procedures before when they've changed their minds.

_Awestruck_
27-01-10, 23:58
Wait, so she became a he, but he is gay?


I'm a bit thrown off here.

scoopy_loopy
28-01-10, 01:28
Wow, so they were gay men stuck in the bodies of teenage girls? :p

silver_wolf
28-01-10, 02:26
*sigh* you know, there's a reason why men shouldn't get pregnant. just watch Junior.
Wait, so she became a he, but he is gay?


I'm a bit thrown off here.
yeah, I don't get it either. Why not just...get a boyfriend?

Beans-Bot
28-01-10, 03:43
So loving that they made a big thing about this and their child will inevitably not lead a normal life thanks to their attention whoring. Poor kid.

...which means we should do something about the people bullying the couple's children, not the couple themselves. The hatred is the problem here and it can be stopped. :)

Vickkyyy
28-01-10, 04:11
erm... well, that's confusing. It's not a pregnant man i don't think :/

Oh well! :tmb:

knightgames
28-01-10, 04:37
you're statement is an example of "thank god this kid will grow up to understand such things"

IMO more people in the world need to experience things that are not the norm. Someone is proud that they can have a baby and live the life of the gender they always felt was right is perfectly fine. The kids theat get to know their child and become friends with their child will be able to understand this situation as they grow too.

He is happy, think of it as a learning experience for everyone around them.

Untill the kid grows up in misery and lonliness.... teased, mocked, ridiculed, made to feel unhuman. Sorry. I really am. I'm not being bigoted or prejudiced. Just honest. The world is a cruel place, and while you or I may not treat him as unequal there are many who would. Heck. Gay marriage is still hot button. Even on a fairly enlightened and intelligent forum as this you have many who don't understand.

It's unfair to do this to the child.

Big Matt
28-01-10, 05:47
Holy smokes! This is the most insane thread I've seen since joining this forum.

I simply can't fathom a tenth of what's being discussed here. What's being talked about here sounds like something out of a Spanish Inquisition torture manual or the KGB handbook on psychological warfare. Using chemicals and cutlery to try and turn men into women and women into men! Has humanity actually declined to such a point that people would willfully have their own God-given hardware dismembered? How could someone have such self loathing, such a raging disrespect for their own self that they would mutilate their body in such a way? I don't know whether to vomit or weep!

Holy poopola people! Whatever you were born with take some pride in it! If you were born as a man, accept the gift that you've been given and go out into the world and kick some ass! If you were born as a woman, then cherish that gift. Go out into life and be the best damn woman the world has ever seen! Don't dishonor the gift of your gender by trying to discard it for another, attempting to be something you can never truly be. So what if you feel like you should be something else? I feel like I should be a foot taller but I'm not about to pull out my skill saw and some two-by-fours and hack my body to bits in an attempt to remedy the situation.

Maybe I'm old fashioned or am so isolated that humanity has evolved behind my back into some strange new thing that resembles nothing of its former self because I can't comprehend how some of the ideas and concepts in this thread could possibly come from the human mind. Man or woman, short or tall, fat or skinny, hot or homely -- be satisfied with what you've been given and use it for something amazing instead of trying to throw it away.

I would agree with the principle that it's their business, but when they make public announcements, it's becomes my business involuntarily. I'm weary of this Jerry Springer-In-Your-Face-Society where apparently the freedom to do what you want and be what you want isn't enough. By Jove, everyone else needs to hear about it too, and if you don't like it, well, you're just a bigot and a hater. :mad:

Of which I am neither. Mostly I'm just tired of having other people's personal lives broadcast as entertainment and pseudo-tests for "tolerance." These are intimate and personal decisions, that are truly none of my business. I resent being forced to participate even as a part of a viewing audience.

Thrilled he's happy pregnant. Goodness knows I didn't enjoy it much. :ton:

Amen!

A-bloody-men!!!

The best post in this whole thread.

Straight, gay, unsure, a little bit of both -- however, whatever someone decides to do with their sexuality keep it to your own self! I and most of the rest of the world don't want to know anything about it. We've all got our own sexuality to tend to and take care of (and, thankfully, the sense to give that sexuality the honor and respect that's due it by making sure it remains the private, sacred thing that it is).

If this thread doesn't give me gruesome nightmares it will be a wonder.

EgyptianSoul
28-01-10, 06:41
Amazing how one piece of news can make people reveal their uglier side through their opinions.

To me, this isn't shocking news or freaky or weird in any way. I'm supportive of many things considered "out of the ordinary" by some people. What is ordinary, there's no such thing. It's all subjective.

Mad Tony
28-01-10, 07:49
...which means we should do something about the people bullying the couple's children, not the couple themselves. The hatred is the problem here and it can be stopped. :)The bullying should obviously be tackled, but that doesn't make what these two women did (attention whoring) right.

Encore
28-01-10, 10:53
Amazing how one piece of news can make people reveal their uglier side through their opinions.

To me, this isn't shocking news or freaky or weird in any way. I'm supportive of many things considered "out of the ordinary" by some people. What is ordinary, there's no such thing. It's all subjective.

Just because the opinion is diferent than yours doesn't make it ugly. That was rather ironic coming from someone who says everything is subjective.

ShadyCroft
28-01-10, 10:57
To me, this isn't shocking news or freaky or weird in any way. I'm supportive of many things considered "out of the ordinary" by some people. What is ordinary, there's no such thing. It's all subjective.

That's the thing. To you its not, but to others it might be, and who is anyone to say that these people are wrong. There isn't exactly a right or wrong thing here, more like "That's my opinion and that's yours".

Just as long as it doesn't become hostile between members and physical to the 2 individuals in the article....


Edit: oh I just saw Ben's post

The bullying should obviously be tackled, but that doesn't make what these two women did (attention whoring) right.

yes, that's what I meant. The bullying should be resolved, but someone saying "I disagree !"...well, the 2 girls/guys shouldn't give a rat's bottom about it. :)

EgyptianSoul
28-01-10, 13:01
Those people are men in my eyes.

The world just isn't quite ready yet to hear about trans people having biological children during the gender reassignment. Actually, people shouldn't use the term "sex change" as it is considered incorrect.

There are many who do reproduce before going through the gender reassignment process and now some have started to have children during it.

tomblover
28-01-10, 13:17
BTW, I've seen better looking trannies than this one. :pi: Whatcha talkin' about? Amanda Lepore may not know much about clothes, but her hair looks fierce! :p

*Amanda Lepore fan here :vlol:!*

tranniversary119
28-01-10, 13:30
Without really getting into the subject of transsexuals (to avoid entering an argument) I can just say that; it doesn't concern me what other people's decisions are. I could care less what they do, it's their choice and I have no problem with it. But see, these people made it public; so it then becomes my business because I now know about it. I'm happy for them, really! But do they honestly need to announce to the public, "Man having a baby!" it's somewhat of a lie. They're not ACTUALLY men, when a real man can have baby that deserves an announcement. :wve:

Legend 4ever
30-01-10, 07:52
God-given hardware dismembered
Did god tell you he doesn't like us fixing our bodies?

scremanie
30-01-10, 08:01
Why not just stay as a woman if you're going to marry a man and give birth to a child anyways? :confused:

but then again... the other man is also actually a woman... so she is really lesbian? :confused:

Oh well, good luck to them both... I guess...

TRenTIs
30-01-10, 08:37
lol it's like it's a man, a woman, a straight and a gay all in one. :tea:

scremanie
30-01-10, 08:51
lol it's like it's a man, a woman, a straight and a gay all in one. :tea:

lmfao!

Suzan
30-01-10, 08:57
All the best to them. Oh how I wish that some day the world doesn't have any close mindness in it anymore.

xXhayleyroxXx
30-01-10, 11:18
All the best to them. Oh how I wish that some day the world doesn't have any close mindness in it anymore.

I agree! I don't even find this weird

T-Sex
30-01-10, 11:21
All the best to them. Oh how I wish that some day the world doesn't have any close mindness in it anymore.

I agree! I don't even find this weird

:tmb:

xXhayleyroxXx
30-01-10, 11:28
:tmb:

we agree on a lot it seems :)

T-Sex
30-01-10, 11:30
we agree on a lot it seems :)

Yeah :p

James_Rutland
30-01-10, 12:12
Sorry, but that's abhorrent. :confused:
Why would you do that...

TRhalloween
30-01-10, 12:20
That's a real reach. I saw it listed as a synonym... but hatred isn't a part of any definition I read (and I just checked). Certainly that's not the clinical application either.

That's not what I mean. I'm not saying hatred and fear are the same but "phobia" is an either/or type of word.