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tazmine
08-12-04, 23:47
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her Radio show. On her radio show recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as thought-provoking.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination...End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbours.
They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbours who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does
my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev
19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16).
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

Natalie Vassilaka

:D

Thorir
08-12-04, 23:54
Hilarious. :D Very thoughful. ;)

Gawd... Creepy, strange-ass religious people.

complex
09-12-04, 00:30
Excellent Tazmine! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Joseph
09-12-04, 00:33
Well. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
And has Dr. Laura replied yet? :D

TheEveningStar
09-12-04, 02:49
Originally posted by joseph:
Well. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif
And has Dr. Laura replied yet? :D I wanna know that too lol http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif

Smith will Suffice
09-12-04, 03:51
stupid byotch wont have anything to say. thats hilarious

boy will her face be red...she'll look quite the fool

-Smith

andromeda_eats
09-12-04, 06:21
What an intelligent woman. (The letter writer)

Fantastic response. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Draco
09-12-04, 10:06
Cheers http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

tazmine
09-12-04, 11:50
I found this at another site, & thought it was interesting in light of some of the comments made here in the past.

So far as I know, "Dr.Laura" has not replied. ;)

Simulation
09-12-04, 12:25
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Gabi
09-12-04, 13:27
Excellent!!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Thanks for sharing,Tazmine.

nikos
09-12-04, 13:35
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif hahahaha!
a small part of it was published in many newspaper here, 2 weeks ago!
well if you mix old testimony with mondern ethics there will be a great and funny confusions!is about the same if someone nationalist try to mix ancient greek religion[12 gods] with modern orthodox[christian] way!
some people is using religion to convist other people that they have right,but they only use just a few part of it,removing[or ''forget"] other points, totaly different for theirs thoughts! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif
thanks taznine we have also fanatics here and we also lough at them,but many times they start to be a little dangerous[by prohibiting books,moovies etc..]! :mad:

Capt. Murphy
09-12-04, 15:10
Yeah man What a stupid book.In Levitcus 18:23 it says not to do it with animals.Ha-ha.Dumb book http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Oops! I guess if it's okay to for homosexuals to have their fun it's perfectly alright for animal lovers to have their fun too.

That is what we're all getting at here -Right? :confused:

TR_Dan
09-12-04, 15:20
yeah! way ta go!!!
i have a boyfriend and i'm very much in love with him. where i live homosexuality is very very much frowned upon (the police just refused to let a public gay christmas party be conducted). and it's people like dr laura that eventually made me stop going to church altogether. *ahem-bigots-ahem!*
all i know love can come in any form. i found mine in a boy. a very lovely boy. *blushes* however until society becomes more open, the closet is where i'll stay.

SMSL
09-12-04, 15:41
Originally posted by Capt. Murphy:
Oops! I guess if it's okay to for homosexuals to have their fun it's perfectly alright for animal lovers to have their fun too.

That is what we're all getting at here -Right? :confused: Easy, man, speak for yourself alone, please!
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/pistol.gif

SpArKy
09-12-04, 16:01
Originally posted by andromeda_eats:
What an intelligent woman. (The letter writer)

Fantastic response. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif I was thinking the same thing, i think a lot of research went into teh answer though¬!

SpArKy
09-12-04, 16:03
Originally posted by Capt. Murphy:
Yeah man What a stupid book.In Levitcus 18:23 it says not to do it with animals.Ha-ha.Dumb book http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Oops! I guess if it's okay to for homosexuals to have their fun it's perfectly alright for animal lovers to have their fun too.

That is what we're all getting at here -Right? :confused: Mwuha ha ha ha ha ha hah!

tazmine
09-12-04, 16:14
Originally posted by TR_Dan:
yeah! way ta go!!!
i have a boyfriend and i'm very much in love with him. where i live homosexuality is very very much frowned upon (the police just refused to let a public gay christmas party be conducted). and it's people like dr laura that eventually made me stop going to church altogether. *ahem-bigots-ahem!*
all i know love can come in any form. i found mine in a boy. a very lovely boy. *blushes* however until society becomes more open, the closet is where i'll stay.I think it's wonderful you found someone to love. :D

Capt. Murphy
09-12-04, 16:31
Originally posted by SMSL:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Capt. Murphy:
Oops! I guess if it's okay to for homosexuals to have their fun it's perfectly alright for animal lovers to have their fun too.

That is what we're all getting at here -Right? :confused: Easy, man, speak for yourself alone, please!
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/pistol.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I never used the word "us" so that would not include me. For example - if I had said something like: "...us animal lovers..."

But I've come to expect such attacks on my character in a place such as this. :rolleyes:

Yeah, whatever. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

SpArKy
09-12-04, 16:35
I dont think it was an attack Capt.Murphy. More like a misunderstanding of your question, i for one am glad you are back posting.

SMSL
09-12-04, 17:10
I'm so sorry, I was just joking. :( Honnest, I didn't mean to sound rude nor anything, it just looked like a funny reply, that's why I put the smileys with the water gun and all. I really didn't expect it would be taken seriously, I wasn't even suggesting you would do that, it was like don't suggest we all do it. :( I'm really sorry if it didn't look well!

*goes sit on the corner in shame*

Capt. Murphy
09-12-04, 17:20
Aw. :( Don't feel bad. But there are some people that have done that to me in the past. :mad: And maliciously I might add. So, I didn't know how to react. Don't look at it as a wrong doing on your part. But rather a conditioned reflex by me. I just don't know who I can trust around here. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif

Besides, you probably don't even know me do you? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

*extends hand for shaking -while speaking in haste* Hi. Name's Capt. Murphy. Right Wing nut job. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Nice to meet you SMSL. :D *winks and tips hat*

SMSL
09-12-04, 17:32
Well, that is what I call an introduction in style! :D Nice meeting you too. I'm just... well, SMSL! *drops shoulders completelly ungracefull*

True, I'm really new to the place, only joined yeasterday, but it has been great to be here so far. Really a neat place. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Thank you for accepting my appologies. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif I really felt bad about the possibility of having hurted your feelings. I hate it when I post something because I find it a funny remark and find out I sounded like a jerk... http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-1.gif

[ 09. December 2004, 17:34: Message edited by: SMSL ]

Joseph
09-12-04, 20:47
Originally posted by Capt. Murphy:
Yeah man What a stupid book.In Levitcus 18:23 it says not to do it with animals.Ha-ha.Dumb book http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Oops! I guess if it's okay to for homosexuals to have their fun it's perfectly alright for animal lovers to have their fun too.

That is what we're all getting at here -Right? :confused: To your last question: No, and you know that, Capt. Murphy. Most posters here know that you're against homosexuality (" out of concern"). Don't equal it to animal lovers. :rolleyes:

andromeda_eats
09-12-04, 22:05
Beastiality and Homosexuality are completley unrelated. I am impressed with how much courage you have to say what you said out loud, to actually believe that, and to share that view with other people. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-3.gif

tazmine
09-12-04, 23:30
I'm not at all surprised that he equated the two. :( SMSL: you have nothing for which to apologize. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

andromeda_eats
09-12-04, 23:39
Hey Taz. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

SMSL
09-12-04, 23:47
I wouldn't feel good with myself if I wouldn't.

Independently of on whether his statement would look fair to me or not, truth is, I wasn't meaning what I said in an offensive way. I wasn't trying to suggest he was like that, i was only trying to say I wasn't in a funny way. Turned out, he didn't find it funny, he found it insultive. It wasn't my intention, I feel sorry for what I caused him, when I feel sorry, I say I am.

It's all cool now, we can go back to throwing pillows! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/pillow.gif

Scottlee
10-12-04, 00:40
I read the starter post in this thread, but can't be bothered getting that deep on the subject.

Basically, I've never understood why there's even a need to have a conversation about what homosexuality stands for.

People are people. Who gives a flying rat's behind who they do/don't fancy? If you don't like someone because they're gay/lesbian, then that's pretty tragic if you ask me.

[ 10. December 2004, 00:40: Message edited by: Scottlee ]

Joseph
10-12-04, 00:42
Well Scott, please DO read the first post then...!

Joseph
10-12-04, 00:42
Only that 1, it is enough to see the point...

tazmine
10-12-04, 02:07
SMSL: with the Captain, it's either his way or the highway.

Go easy on yourself: you just didn't know. :D

Draco
10-12-04, 02:10
I like to think Im open minded, wasted a whole 10 years in church trying to be open minded about it.

tazmine
10-12-04, 02:25
IMO, chuches are the most close-minded institutions around.

You all should come to Canada: our Supreme Court has, just today, upheld same-sex marriages. :D

We're (Canada), not perfect, but we're close. :D

SMSL
10-12-04, 10:21
Hey, Tazmine. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

True, I didn't know, but once knowing about the missunderstanding, it only felt natural to me to appologize having caused it. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif But everything turned out alright and that's what matters. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

About closed minds and churches, yes, religions tend to be conservative. If nothing else, try to conserve their power on people. But I know people that aren't even religious and are very closed minded just the same.

larasfrend
10-12-04, 10:48
What a great letter! :D LOL! Well done to the woman who made it and shut up Dr. Laura (or whatever it was)! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-2.gif

Thorir
10-12-04, 13:18
Santa won`t be coming to Dr. Laura this year. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

Capt. Murphy
10-12-04, 15:06
*Mod Edit. Whilst we understand your zealousness for your religion, please keep such offensive opinions to yourself. Thank you.

♀+♂=Marriage

[ 10. December 2004, 16:18: Message edited by: Neteru ]

Thorir
10-12-04, 15:21
Two of my best female friends married eachother and are living happily together. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I get ANGRY at people like you. :mad:

Camilla and Ellen. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/love4.gif

Horrible, sick and insane, hm? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 15:27
Hi Taz, I am so happy about the decision, I am so proud to be a Canadian (although more proud to be a maritimer) and love this country of mine :D

I am bisexual and my bestest dearest friend is Gay (dresses in Drag every Sat night), I love him no matter what http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

It really hurts me when people say mean nasty things about him or myself, we are not hurting anyone else by the things we do :(

Capt. Murphy
10-12-04, 15:52
Originally posted by nerdalicious:
....we are not hurting anyone else by the things we do :( That is correct. You aren't hurting anyone, not even me. You are just hurting yourselves.

If any one of you believed that a person was drinking a glass of poison - but they told you that poison tasted good and didn't believe (or didn't care that) the end consequence of having drank that poison would mean they'd die - how would you feel if they called you a "bigot" or "ignorant"?

Now you know how I feel.

Keep on drinking your Kool-Aid folks. I can't stop you. :(

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 16:06
Whatever :rolleyes:

I attend church...because God loves me no matter
what :D

Just curious, Capt. Murphy, have you lived a very sheltered life?

[ 10. December 2004, 16:13: Message edited by: nerdalicious ]

SMSL
10-12-04, 16:11
Capt, I don't think you see it as it really is. It's not a matter of choice here. Like, you are hetero, I am hetero. But, did someone tell us to be that way? No. It's the way we are. Like homos and bissexuals are the way they are and simply have to accept themselves as they are, if they want to achieve happyness.

I am very sure no one simply choses the sexual tendency, it's in us. And if we fight it, then we are impoisoning our mind. The equivalent of telling homos not to have homo tendencies is telling you not to like girls or me not to like boys, it makes no sense.

And homosexuality and bisexuality even exits on animals, so, it's as natural as it can be. And it's a cientific proved fact, if memory doesn't fail me, all human minds have a homosexual percentage in them. Only, in heterosexuals, it's minimal, enough even not to be noticed, in bisexuals is 50/50, more or less, and in homosexuals, the homosexual component more or less equals the percentage of the heterosexual percentage in heteros.

No one told you what tendency to have, you simply follow your own. I don't think you should look at others with such a criticizing tone for simply doing the same thing, but happening to have a different tendency. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 16:15
I mean really, why would anyone care if someone is sleeping with a male or female :confused:
I think sometimes we give ourselves too much importance.

Thorir
10-12-04, 16:18
Well said, SMSL. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Real Christians are tolerant, loving and kind people who accept everyone. Homosexuals, blacks, asians, people with green eyes, drug addicts... Whatever.

Not simply... Narrowminded hetero people who belives they have monopoly on reality.

Neteru
10-12-04, 16:19
Please people. We have gone over this argument recently. It's unproductive.

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 16:23
I agree Net http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

So what I have to tell Capt. Murphy is fitting...hatred is never reasonable. Go away and debate this somewhere else.

I'm done with this topic, I'm still bisexual and God still loves me http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/c-5.gif

[ 10. December 2004, 16:25: Message edited by: nerdalicious ]

SMSL
10-12-04, 16:30
Still, I think trying to show people the truth of things isn't a vain afford. I'm sure that if people were educated to believe something is and is this way and there's no other way of looking at it, sure will have trouble accepting another view.

I don't think flaming is a solution neither, but trying to show people what they don't know.

I'm sure Capt doesn't mean it harm with having his closed mind towards the theme, I believe he just doesn't see it any other way. He has to understand homosexuality, but I think people also have to understand he was brought up under the conception that it's something unnatural, dirty, that it's a wrong choice people make. It's hard to just turn around all that in one's mind, after a certain age.

larasfrend
10-12-04, 17:40
Hi SMSL! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif I completely agree with you. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I haven't seen you around here before, are you new? :confused:

SMSL
10-12-04, 21:25
Hi, larasfrend! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

Yeah, I'm just 3 days old here. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif

I regret not having joined sooner. Been missing a great place! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Red_Rain
10-12-04, 23:11
Hehe.... you lot love to have a go about something http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

I am a Pagan and our motto is :, An' it harm none, do what ye will.

So if two people of the same sex wish to do what ever they want to do it is not hurting anyone else.

let them be.

I have a few friends who are homosexual and they are the nicest people I know.

The problem is Christian religion tries to preach to us our sexual habbits, but unfortunatly they are not free from sin themselves.

When one is free from sin , one can cast the first stone.

Otherwise live your own lives not others. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 23:13
Thank you Red_Rain http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

tazmine
10-12-04, 23:20
Hi, Red. Well spoken. :D

Red_Rain
10-12-04, 23:23
Hi Taz http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

No problem my friend ;)

I hate to see such trash spoken about people who are just the same as us inside. If everyone just lived thier own lives the would would be a beautifull place.

Scottlee
10-12-04, 23:39
Originally posted by Thorir:
Two of my best female friends married eachother and are living happily together. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I get ANGRY at people like you. :mad:

Camilla and Ellen. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/love4.gif

What??? http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif Elen has married a WOMAN, called Camille?

Why am I always the last TRF member to hear about these things???

Anyway, good for you, Elen. You go girl!! http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif :D :D :D

SMSL
10-12-04, 23:40
True, but people that think otherwise really think they are being rightuous. People have to be tolerant towards differences and understand what creates them.

nerdalicious
10-12-04, 23:41
Hi Scottlee http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

Thorir
11-12-04, 00:41
Sorry, Scott. But my friend Ellen is not OUR Elen. ;) http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

complex
11-12-04, 00:43
Slightly relevant link......

More Upset Christians. (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/041210/325/f8alj.html)

nerdalicious
11-12-04, 00:52
I belive in God, but I am not a Christian, I do have a Christian friend, who rambles on about how I am not "saved", whatever :rolleyes:

I really do not want to get into my opinions about Christians, they are not very nice http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/whistle.gif

complex
11-12-04, 01:13
It is the same with most structured religions.

Religion teaches you what you must think, as opposed to teaching you how to think for yourself.

That's where the blind bigotry comes from.

nerdalicious
11-12-04, 01:15
Amen to that :D

Thorir
11-12-04, 01:29
Well... There is no easy question for a topic like this. Also, there are BIG cultural differences... Generally Europeans are more liberal than people on the American continent...
Same sex-marriage has been legal here (Norway) for 10-11 years and any discrimination is illegal. Only adoption is still now allowed.

Where I`m from, we have several gay/lesbian priests, politicians... Recently a female bishop who is a huge fighter for gay rights, was refused to preach in a church because of her support for gays... A simple priest against a bishop! :eek: It caused a national stir, and the ******* priest had to give up. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/clown.gif

My point is... Not all Christians are bad. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

*Please do not try to circumvent the censoring software. Thanks.

[ 11. December 2004, 14:18: Message edited by: Neteru ]

nerdalicious
11-12-04, 01:52
Yes, I should clarify that.... some Christians

Olvidarse
11-12-04, 03:55
Honestly, I'm glad we have racists, bigots, fanaticals, whatever. The world would be boring without a mix of people to fill it up. How much I disagree with the Capt., I wouldn't have it any other way. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/jumper.gif

larasfrend
11-12-04, 09:56
I'm guessing hinduism is the most peaceful religion, isn't it? I mean Christians and Muslims can convert others to become followers of their religion, but hindus can't. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/love4.gif (I read that somewhere recently). :D

I can't stand how so many Christians I know now keep talking about Muslims killing so many people and being a bad, extreme religion. Some followers of every religion are extremists. They take everything that god said so seriously that it is often misinterpreted into something god would never mean. People so conveniently forget how the Christians killed hundreds of thousands of black Africans, during the crusades when trying to convert everyone into Christians. :rolleyes:

I hate it when people go into really in depth discussions on which religion is right and which is wrong. Why can't seperate religions just embrace the fact that people believe in different things. Let them. People should live in peace with one another. War sucks. :(

SMSL
11-12-04, 13:00
Well, if most big religions wouldn't had embraced the financial factor of the world, there wouldn't have been that many religious wars...

nerdalicious
11-12-04, 13:16
Originally posted by larasfrend:
People so conveniently forget how the Christians killed hundreds of thousands of black Africans, during the crusades when trying to convert everyone into Christians. :rolleyes:

Thank you for wrting that, and also how they killed thousands of native Indians in North American who refused to convert :mad:

Melonie Tomb Raider
13-12-04, 12:02
Hi Murphy http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/wave.gif . I think you've done an exceptional job with stating your oppinions ( which I agree with). One thing that really stook out was when you were talking about some one drinking poison and enjoying the taste, so when people tell him/her that they are drinking poison and they will die the person drinking poison calls them " idiots" and junk. It's just wrong. It's rude for people to say stuff like, " Go debate somewhere else" or whatever, because isn't this froum supposed to be some where that we can ALL speak, not just the people who agree with each other?

Any way, everyone knows where I stand on this issue, I agree with what the Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. Some people will use excuses like, " Homoesxuality isn't wrong, it's a loving relationship with two people of the same gender who are in love... bla bla bla". Just because people like it doesn't make it right. For example, let me go with the whole animal issue that Murphy mentioned before. Some one could easily say, " There is nothing wrong with a loving, entiment relationship between a human and an animal that are in love." That's just disgusting http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/yuck.gif .

One more thing I'd like to mention since most homosexual excuses are, " Well they love each other..." or " They like it... If they like it then why is it wrong?" Ok, first of all we can all agree that the Bible says murder is wrong, correct? Well, numerous murderers enjoy killing, does that make it ok? If people enjoy acting out in homosexuality, which is against the Bible, yet can still be " acceptable" then why can't a serial killer, who is acting out against the Bible, be acceptable as well since he/she enjoys what he/she is doing??? Ok, most of you will probably say, " Well homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone and murder does" so I thought of something else.Does that mean child molestation is ok too? Some young children don't understand and allow themselves to be molested, so does that make it ok? Does this mean that it's ok for a young child to marry a full grown man/woman? They aren't hurting anyone, so why can't they act that way? It's the same concept, all of those things are wrong and no matter how many excuses you try to pull up, you can't prove that homosexuality is ok.

Some one mentioned early that he/she went to church every week and God still loved him/her no matter what. Well, God does love everyone; however, you can't expect to be doing things that are against God's word and then go to church and be squared away with Him. Sure, we all sin, but the Bible says that homosexualitys will not enter into the kingdom of God. This doesn't mean you have no hope if you are a homosexual, you can always stop and change; however, if acting out in homosexuality then, like the Bible has stated, you will not enter into the kingdom of God. Even if you go to church every week.

Well, there's my two cents. I may not be able to log on the forums a whole lot since as of now finals are starting in college and I will be a busy birdy, but I'll try to be on the forums more. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Red_Rain
13-12-04, 12:38
So Melonie you are free from sin are you?
If I remember rightly from my Roman Catholic days sinners do not go to Heven.

Now also iif I remember rightly if you receive the last rights you are free from sin, so even if you are a homoseual you will still go to Heven.

And in that case even a murderer who has had the last rights will go to Heven :eek:

So So why is it that this religion is so mixed up in what it preaches.

And I also remember going to church and askinfg for my sins to be forgiven and doing my penance. So if a homosexual roman Catholic goes to church and askes for his sins to be forgiven he can infact be forgiven and go to heven.

nerdalicious
13-12-04, 13:09
OMG Melonie Tomb Raider, I am not even going to start.... :mad:

Here is what I really think about you "Christians"...

Homosexuality. I see it as a non-issue. Gays deserve the right to marry whom they love, just the same as anyone else. Most people I know believe the same, including my very Catholic mother. Oh, not the christians though. Their rulebook tells them who & what to hate, & gays are in there.

They feel it is their duty to make sure congress passes the federal marriage amendment, which states that marriage is between one man and one woman ONLY(which, btw, also spits on some Mormons' beliefs). Why? Why, I ask? What is the big fat hairy deal about 2 men or 2 women being in love and wanting to marry? I think gays SHOULD get married, I'm all for it b/c it encourages monagamy & cuts down on the spread of diseases, just like with heterosexuals. Plus, gays are people just like the rest of us and there should be no question about any equality issues with them.

How would these dillweeds feel if the whole thing were flipped? What if gays were the majority & they were threatening to make straight marriage illegal? Those hypochristians would be whistling a different tune then for sure, suddenly equality wouldn't sound quite so sinful after all. Another idiotic belief many christians hold about gays, is that being gay is some kind of choice. Wha...? Now, I have known quite a few gay people, and I guaran-****in-tee you that if they had a choice, they'd probably be straight.

I don't think anyone wants to go through such a difficult struggle as gays go through. I went through that struggle with one of my best friends during high school. He had always had these different feelings and always kept them hidden b/c it's not 'normal' for boys to like other boys. I held him as he cried on my shoulder b/c he was so confused & scared. I helped him recover after he got his ass kicked by the jock-*******s for being a fruit. I defended him to all the preps who talked **** about him. He went through absolute HELL simply b/c he was gay.

Now does anyone honestly think someone would CHOOSE to go through all that kind of bull**** if they could possibly help it? NO!!! Anyone who does is a ****ing idiot. Homosexuality is not something you can flip on & off like a light switch. To 'prove' their theory about gays, they bring in a lot of "ex-gays" who claim that the love of Jebus cured their homosexuality. To them I say, you're either lying about it for the sake of spreading the christian anti-everything agenda, or you're forcing yourself to be straight to gain the church's approval. Peckerheads, all of them.

Another thing I'd like to include is a quick overview on the way that Christians have treated native peoples, including black slaves, over the course of history. I remember reading this in a history book- "The Christian slavers treated the Africans like animals, because they were not Christian, and therefore had no souls. They reasoned that they were doing these people a favor by enslaving them & allowing them to come to America, which gave them the opportunity to become Christian." The same 'courtesies' were done to Indians, only much worse, and it is still going on. I had a friend, who has since passed on, who got to watch his family and most of his tribe(whose numbers were already dwindling) get slaughtered by a group of fundamentalist Christians after they refused to convert to christianity. Thanks to those lambs of god, there are now only around 10 members, give or take a few, of that tribe left living today. Lovely, eh?

Many reservations today are run by missionaries who force the Indian children to give up their native beliefs & forget their native language. They are forced to go to christian churches & speak only English & forget their heritage. I believe that any minority who embraces christianity is spitting in the faces of their ancestors who suffered & died at the hands of their christian 'masters'. And speaking of missionaries, I have no sympathy for any that are killed while trying to convert people. I wish more would die in foreign countries so they'd get the hint & quit bugging people.

They go to starving countries under the guise of trying to feed the people, yet they often force them to watch films about Jeebus, make them pray, and often do not feed them at all unless they agree to 'accept Christ'. You know, the Christian Children's Fund claims that they get the most money to the people out of all the charities, yet only 27% of the donations ever makes it to the people. Not surprising, just another example of christian greed.

I cannot stand christians. If christianity works for them, then hooray, but quit shoving it in everyone else's faces & quit showing it off. They need to shut the hell up & quit trying to boss the whole world around. Yes, there are a lot of people who probably will not go to "Heaven" but so what?

I for one don't WANT to go simply b/c it would mean having to spend eternity with these preachy dillholes. And we as free-thinking enlightened people need to stand up to these jerks. We need to stop bending to their wishes. And if they riot & stage protests, LET 'EM! **** 'em! Spray them all with tear gas & haul them off to jail if they get rowdy. We need to stop letting them get their way, we need to teach them a lesson that the intelligent people of this country are not gonna be bossed around any longer by hypocritical oafs with Babbles. We've let them have their fun, now the party needs to come to a close. But unfortunately it probably never will b/c people are too busy suckling a Christianity's saggy tit to ever stand up for themselves.

There thats my opinion, I will likely get bashed, banned or whatever, meh, who cares...I'm not going to stay somewhere where I get flamed because of my lifestyle or equated with murderers, child molesters and beastility...

Melonie and Capt. Murphy-Don't knock it till you try it http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

cya

[ 13. December 2004, 13:45: Message edited by: nerdalicious ]

Melonie Tomb Raider
13-12-04, 15:18
Originally posted by Red_Rain:
So Melonie you are free from sin are you?
If I remember rightly from my Roman Catholic days sinners do not go to Heven.

Now also iif I remember rightly if you receive the last rights you are free from sin, so even if you are a homoseual you will still go to Heven.

And in that case even a murderer who has had the last rights will go to Heven :eek:

So So why is it that this religion is so mixed up in what it preaches.

And I also remember going to church and askinfg for my sins to be forgiven and doing my penance. So if a homosexual roman Catholic goes to church and askes for his sins to be forgiven he can infact be forgiven and go to heven.Ok, first of all, I am not free from sin. Second of all, I am not a roman catholic; in fact, I disagree with the roman catholic beliefs because many of them are against the Bible. I believe in what the BIble says, and the BIble says that Jesus Christ had died on the cross for our sins ( everyone in the world, not just us Christians) . Jesus Christ payed the penalty of the sins that I committed and the sins of everyone else, and He did it willingly even though He is free from sin. So all I have to do is repent of my sins ( to God and God alone, not to a priest) and He will forgive me. That's the way the Bible says it works and that's the way I believe, I'm not at all into the catholic thing.
And yes, I do believe that homosexuals do have hope of going to Heaven, but ONLY if they change. The BIble says homosexuals will NOT enter into the kingdom of God, so if they don'g change and they continue to act upon the pervesness then no, I don't believe they will go to Heaven.
Oh, and for the person who posted afterward, I'm at my college library right now and so I don't have time to read and reply to what you wrote; however, I'll make some time as soon as I can.

Melonie Tomb Raider
13-12-04, 15:30
Ok, I read part of your statement. ABout the first 4-5 paragraphs. First of all, as much as we continue to debate this, gays do choose to be the way they are. If men like men and women like women it's their choice and they were not born that way as if they were a whole other gender. You say, " They wouldn't choose to be ridiculed" or whatever, but murderers choose to murder and you geta heck of a lot more problems being a murderer than you do a homosexual, yet people are murdering other people each and every day.

Secondly, about the whole " Christians being racist" comment. I wouldn't even get that started if I were you, especially with the Indians, considerring I am one.... Well, I'm not full blooded Indian, but I'm about 40-60% Indian. So that comment was a waste of your time... Not to mention a lot of blacks are Christians too. And yeah, there are some Christians that are racist, just like there are some athiest that are racist, not everyone is perfect and I don't expect them to be ( especially since I am far from perfect); however, issues like murder, child molestation, and homosexuality are far worse.

I'll get back to reading the rest of your topic later, my English class is about to start.

nerdalicious
13-12-04, 15:47
Melonie,

Where did I state that Christians were racist?

How do you know homosexuals have a choice? Were you one? Unless you experience something how can you give an opinion :confused:

When I meant Indians, I meant those (tribes) all over the world, not just in the USA :rolleyes:

And if you continue to compare homosexuals with child molesters and murders someone is going to give you a slap in the face, and if I was there I would do it myself, for someone that attends university you are pretty ignorant, and for someone so christian you have a lot of hatred, but I would expect nothing less.....

[ 13. December 2004, 15:50: Message edited by: nerdalicious ]

Scottlee
13-12-04, 17:26
First of all, as much as we continue to debate this, gays do choose to be the way they are. If men like men and women like women it's their choice and they were not born that way as if they were a whole other gender

About as ludicrous a statement as I've ever read, but do carry on.

Neteru
13-12-04, 17:54
Melonie, your opinions are well known on this board. We (most of us) are very familiar with what you think because you throw your opinions at us at every opportunity.

Please STOP comparing homosexuals to child molesters and murderers. If you don't like the subject, then STOP reading the topics. You seem to be attracted to them like a magnet, only then to anger other members time and time again. It's tiresome.

Nerdalicious, Please don't spoil the forum by being drawn in by the viciousness of some people and then threatening violence. Theirs and your methods in this regard are not acceptable on this forum.

I would request that members stop posting topics that constantly re-enflame this issue (that we're never going to agree on).

Topic closed.