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msalpha2omega
17-05-10, 13:46
"Raise your hand against smacking" is a Europe-wide awareness-raising initiative against corporal punishment of children, launched by the Council of Europe in June 2008. It aims at legally banning corporal punishment of children, promoting positive parenting and raising awareness of children's rights throughout Europe. No religion, belief, economic situation or "educational" method can ever justify hitting, smacking, spanking, mutilating, abusing, humiliating, or any other practice that violates a child's dignity. It is internationally recognised in human rights law that children have a right to protection from all forms of violence, including corporal punishment in all settings (home, school, penal systems, and alternative care).

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Capt. Murphy
17-05-10, 13:58
A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

Another Lara
17-05-10, 15:17
A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

Agree 101% :tmb:

It should be up to the parent how their child is raised, as long as it's not OTT and won't actually really hurt the child...

trXD
17-05-10, 15:26
There is a charity for it now? Jesus ****ing christ.

Spanking is not the same thing as child beating people.

Buffy87
17-05-10, 15:32
It should be up to the parent how their child is raised, as long as it's not OTT and won't actually really hurt the child...

Agreed. My parents used to give me and my sister a smack on the hand or lower arm if we were acting up and I will do the same with any children I may have in the future. It did me no harm - and I soon learnt to stop doing stuff that caused me to get a smack on the hand. My parents always gave us at least 2 - usually 3 warnings before we got a smack on the hand.

I get that some parents abuse their children very badly but I see no issue with a small, light smack on the hand. It did me no harm. Then again my parents are excellent parents and I have no complaints about the way I was raised - perhaps I would think differently if I was subjected to smacking on the hand for no reason. I wasn't so I have no issue with it. Everyone should have the option to discipline their children as they see fit ( within reason) - I am not really a fan of these schemes that try and tell us how to live our lives. Meh.. I am all for human rights - as many of my posts indicate on here but the one governing children is the Convention on the Rights of the Child ( rather than the HRA - the Convention is more specific to children). On my understanding however, that convention is balanced with the rights of the parents - those rights are in essence the ability to determine what is right for the child and what is in the child's best interests. As I understand it here in the UK in recent years the government rejected the idea that reasonable chastisement by parents ( i.e. smacking) was a serious violation of the dignity of the child. In an extract from an article defending the government's intention not to place a ban on smacking, MP Beverly Hughes stated :

"We are 100% committed to giving children the protection they need. We have already tightened the law to give children greater protection against assault in the Children Act of 2004, which removed the defence of 'reasonable punishment' to any charge of assault occasioning actual bodily harm or worse. Around the same time the bar for a charge of Actual Bodily Harm against a child was lowered because of their extra vulnerability.

This means that parents and carers who cause injuries to their child such as grazes, scratches, abrasions, bruising, swellings and superficial cuts risk being charged with actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum of five years imprisonment. An injury which would lead to a charge of common assault where the victim was an adult, would in most circumstances, if the victim was a child, be charged as actual bodily harm or higher."

The way I see it that is enough - serious injury does get punished and is very far removed from a smack on the hand. So I am not against smacking children in a light and reasonable manner personally.

Phys
17-05-10, 15:42
Sometimes smacking is the only option. Asking a child to stop doing something isn't always going to work. Hell - sometimes it makes them do it even more. I know myself that I learnt from right and wrong by being smacked after i'd already been warned.

Children should be warned first. If they continue to do something, then smacking may be inevitable.

cbragg09
17-05-10, 15:51
There is a charity for it now? Jesus ****ing christ.

Spanking is not the same thing as child beating people.

THANK YOU


I was spanked or "whipped" plenty of times, and Im glad. I love my parents to death and I feel with how people around me percieve me, that my mom and dad did a hell of a job raising me and I never once feel like I was 'abused'



This movement of anti punishment is just a load of bull****

Melonie Tomb Raider
17-05-10, 16:08
I was spanked as a child, and I'm glad I was. I'm a disciplined person because of it. Nothing worse than a spoiled child that grows up with no discipline in their lives.

There's a huge difference between whippings and abuse.

Alpharaider47
17-05-10, 16:14
I was spanked or "whipped" plenty of times, and Im glad. I love my parents to death and I feel with how people around me percieve me, that my mom and dad did a hell of a job raising me and I never once feel like I was 'abused'



This movement of anti punishment is just a load of bull****

This is exactly how I feel.

Cochrane
17-05-10, 16:24
Every time this topic comes up, I am amazed how many people support hitting children. I am happy to say that my parents never did this to me, and if/when I have children of my own, I guarantee you that I will never hit/smack/whatever them either. Discipline and punishment never have to be smacking, so I donít think they ever should be.

trXD
17-05-10, 16:28
It is not a coincidence that everyone here who was spanked as a child sees nothing wrong with it but the one person who has never experienced it assumes it is horrible.

Honestly, how can you say it is cruel when so many people who experienced it says it isn't?

Alpharaider47
17-05-10, 16:41
Every time this topic comes up, I am amazed how many people support hitting children. I am happy to say that my parents never did this to me, and if/when I have children of my own, I guarantee you that I will never hit/smack/whatever them either. Discipline and punishment never have to be smacking, so I donít think they ever should be.

There's a difference between hitting and a smack on the butt. I'd never support hitting a kid.

irjudd
17-05-10, 17:04
The decision should be made on a child-by-child basis. My siblings were unreasonable and would not get the point unless they were whipped. I on the other hand was less affected by physical punishment, so my parents used reason (or grounding) with me and that worked more effectively.

Liara
17-05-10, 17:10
It is not a coincidence that everyone here who was spanked as a child sees nothing wrong with it but the one person who has never experienced it assumes it is horrible.
Not me. My dad used to "discipline" me like that, and I was scared out of my mind. I was never a bad kid, but because of a few tiny problems like getting grades that weren't perfect I'd get smacked.

That's probably why I hate him so much even today. What's the point of hitting a kid when all it does is make him terrified of his/her own parent?

remote91
17-05-10, 17:14
Erm, yeah, no.

When my mum threatened to spank me it put the fear of God into me and I behaved like a saint.

trXD
17-05-10, 17:15
Not me. My dad used to "discipline" me like that, and I was scared out of my mind. I was never a bad kid, but because of a few tiny problems like getting grades that weren't perfect I'd get smacked.

That's probably why I hate him so much even today. What's the point of hitting a kid when all it does is make him terrified of his/her own parent?

But that's the thing, what your talking about sounds abusive, and that isn't the same thing. Getting smacked for less than perfect grades definitely is not justified.

Simochka
17-05-10, 17:18
I never got smacked.
My mom had better ways to dicipline me. Like taking away my toys, making me go to bed early and stuffs like that. I never even got grounded.

When in school or in work (summer work <.<) I'm very disciplined. So you don't have to get spanked, smacked or anything just to show discipline. Every human being should have atleast some discipline no matter how they were raised.

There have been made many researches. Atleast here in Sweden. Most bullies, young criminals and students with lack of discipline are most of the time people who get smacked at home. I've been to 6 schools so far and I agree 100% with those researches

Laralissa
17-05-10, 17:21
Gods sake. Might as well wrap children in cotton wool thesedays.

As trXD said, spanking is NOT the same as beating. I was spanked and I turned out fine - children rarely respond to reasoning, sometimes a light smack is what they need to know they've done wrong.

Simochka
17-05-10, 17:26
Gods sake. Might as well wrap children in cotton wool thesedays.

As trXD said, spanking is NOT the same as beating. I was spanked and I turned out fine - children rarely respond to reasoning, sometimes a light smack is what they need to know they've done wrong.

Children are curious and just want to explore things. And that's not wrong and they shouldn't be punished.

And if they are starting to scream just because they want stuffs or things like that then parents should talk to them. It worked for me.
What's the point with a light smack? If you want to hit someone then do it well. But when it is your child. Don't do it at all.

A good parent should be able to show their child discipline without smacking it. If not then they are clearly doing something wrong.

irjudd
17-05-10, 17:39
I think it's a bit arrogant to say that your method must work in all circumstances, even if it did cause you to 'turn out fine'.

igonge
17-05-10, 17:54
Smacking a child is fine for discipline IMO, my parents did it with me. A quick spank or a smack over the head. It's not like you're beating the child.

It's different if the parent goes overboard.

patriots88888
17-05-10, 17:57
I've already said it before whenever this kind of topic arises. I believe that any kind of spanking type of discipline should only be used when absolutely necessary. The only scenario I can see that is absolutely necessary is, if the child is deliberately causing harm to another kid or an animal (pets). I believe it's the best way to get the message through if they have been told before not to do it and still continue to do so. Sometimes, as much as we may not want to have to, it is the only option to get the child to understand what they are doing is not only wrong, but also unacceptable.

Cochrane
17-05-10, 18:01
It is not a coincidence that everyone here who was spanked as a child sees nothing wrong with it but the one person who has never experienced it assumes it is horrible.

Honestly, how can you say it is cruel when so many people who experienced it says it isn't?
I never said it was cruel, I said it was unnecessary. It is my belief that all those who were smacked as a child and turned out fine (and arenít lying about that, obviously) would have turned out just as well if their parents had not smacked them. Sure, it works, but other methods of enforcing discipline work just as well and are far less drastic and demeaning.

There's a difference between hitting and a smack on the butt. I'd never support hitting a kid.
Alright, but consider that not all that many years ago, hitting a child was still considered appropriate punishment. We moved beyond that now. Why canít we move beyond smacking either?


I know many people here like to cite bratty children in general as evidence for why smacking is needed, but in my opinion the problem with them is not the precise method of enforcing discipline, but a lack of such enforcement in general. There are plenty of parents who do smack their children or at least imply that they would do so (I meet most of them in buses and the like, and nobody wants to be seen as smacking their children there), but those children still run wild because they do not respect them. That is the real problem, and that is what the parents of most everyone here who loves their parents did right. Smacking is just a means of enforcement of that, and in my opinion an outdated one.

Gregori
17-05-10, 18:21
Smacking is just a result of parents not being diciplined! Its just bad parenting.
They let out their anger, temper and frustration on the child cause they don't know how else to control the situation. Its pretty mindless and what someone does when they don't know what else to do.

And I don't think it makes you discplined. It just teaches people violence is a means to and end and to cowardly in the face of authority.

Some of the worst bullies and thugs I've met in my life were beaten by their parents and it made no difference.

Anyways, haven't you guys watched Super Nanny? She manages to dicipline children
without ever resorting to violence or losing her temper. There are more intelligent ways to deal with children.

Tony9595
17-05-10, 18:25
post

I have to agree with you :tmb:

Uzi master
17-05-10, 18:35
A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

I'll be honest my mother wold discipline me and I listen, she never disciplines my little sister and she doesnt give a hit, she wont do anything besides make messes and waste food.

anyway like igonge said, its not like beating on a childe WWF style.

Buffy87
17-05-10, 18:53
I know many people here like to cite bratty children in general as evidence for why smacking is needed, but in my opinion the problem with them is not the precise method of enforcing discipline, but a lack of such enforcement in general. There are plenty of parents who do smack their children or at least imply that they would do so (I meet most of them in buses and the like, and nobody wants to be seen as smacking their children there), but those children still run wild because they do not respect them. That is the real problem, and that is what the parents of most everyone here who loves their parents did right. Smacking is just a means of enforcement of that, and in my opinion an outdated one.

With regards to this you are correct - respect is an issue these days. You are also correct in that I had respect for my parents and as such did not run wild. You are of course entitled to your opinion that smacking is outdated and that's fine, but certainly having respect for your parents is also a key issue in behaviour - at least towards your parents. I think anyhow.

Smacking is just a result of parents not being diciplined! Its just bad parenting.


And I don't think it makes you discplined. It just teaches people violence is a means to and end and to cowardly in the face of authority.

Some of the worst bullies and thugs I've met in my life were beaten by their parents and it made no difference.
.

Okay firstly - I was smacked by my parents and they are certainly not bad parents - in fact they are so far removed from being bad parents that I hope to God I will be able to treat my children as they have treated my sister and I. To say that any parent who smacks their child is a bad parent is grossly incorrect and quite frankly uninformed IMO. My parents had plenty of discipline and certainly did not use smacking as a first and only resort. I am slightly offended at the insinuation that parents are bad parents if they smack their child. IMO, you are bad parents if you neglect your child, cannot be bothered to provide for your child financially or emotionally and quite frankly couldn't care less about them.

Secondly, it certainly did not teach me that violence is a means to an end and I am sure that the majority of people who had parents using such discipline would agree with me. In your post you say these thugs were "beaten" by their parents - now to me "beaten " is very very far removed from the occasional tap on the hand which is what I got as a child.

Aranara
17-05-10, 18:55
I was smacked only once. I was 3 and I put my fingers in the wall plug...

But I don't support smacking people. I know someone who is constantly disciplined by their parents and they're so terrified...

larson n natla
17-05-10, 18:56
Depends on the situation.

xcrushterx
17-05-10, 19:10
I was smacked every now and then as a child, did me nothing but good to be honest. I think parents can smack their children if they want, as long as they don't cross the line between discipline and abuse.

Smacking is just a result of parents not being diciplined! Its just bad parenting.
They let out their anger, temper and frustration on the child cause they don't know how else to control the situation. Its pretty mindless and what someone does when they don't know what else to do.

And I don't think it makes you discplined. It just teaches people violence is a means to and end and to cowardly in the face of authority.

Some of the worst bullies and thugs I've met in my life were beaten by their parents and it made no difference.

Anyways, haven't you guys watched Super Nanny? She manages to dicipline children
without ever resorting to violence or losing her temper. There are more intelligent ways to deal with children.

No.

Gregori
17-05-10, 19:14
Okay firstly - I was smacked by my parents and they are certainly not bad parents - in fact they are so far removed from being bad parents that I hope to God I will be able to treat my children as they have treated my sister and I.
I certainly hope you don't hit your children. Its really lousy parenting. :(

To say that any parent who smacks their child is a bad parent is grossly incorrect and quite frankly uninformed IMO. My parents had plenty of discipline and certainly did not use smacking as a first and only resort.

They are not emmm "bad parents" per se. Lets not judge people like that. People are complicated. But the action in itself is bad parenting. I doubt you can call it "good parenting", mostly because is done when someone feels they are not in control.

Even if you don't use it as first resort, the fact is, people use violence when they don't know what else to do, out of temper, frustration and feeling a lack of control.
There are better ways rather than freaking out.

I am slightly offended at the insinuation that parents are bad parents if they smack their child. IMO, you are bad parents if you neglect your child, cannot be bothered to provide for your child financially or emotionally and quite frankly couldn't care less about them.
I never said they were bad parents, but rather that the particular behavior is bad parenting. Hitting children is not caring about them emotionally.

Secondly, it certainly did not teach me that violence is a means to an end and I am sure that the majority of people who had parents using such discipline would agree with me. In your post you say these thugs were "beaten" by their parents - now to me "beaten " is very very far removed from the occasional tap on the hand which is what I got as a child.

Beaten of being slapped!! There is no fundamental difference. Its all violence meant to control or humiliate somebody. I don't know one criminal who wasn't hit as a child by their parents.

Secondly, it has thought you violence is a means to an end!! For example, you think its now okay to hit your children to control them!!

Simochka
17-05-10, 19:17
Smacking is just a result of parents not being diciplined! Its just bad parenting.
They let out their anger, temper and frustration on the child cause they don't know how else to control the situation. Its pretty mindless and what someone does when they don't know what else to do.

And I don't think it makes you discplined. It just teaches people violence is a means to and end and to cowardly in the face of authority.

Some of the worst bullies and thugs I've met in my life were beaten by their parents and it made no difference.

Anyways, haven't you guys watched Super Nanny? She manages to dicipline children
without ever resorting to violence or losing her temper. There are more intelligent ways to deal with children.

I agree with everything you said :tmb:

It's almost what I wrote but you said it better :p

EscondeR
17-05-10, 19:19
THANK YOU


I was spanked or "whipped" plenty of times, and Im glad. I love my parents to death and I feel with how people around me percieve me, that my mom and dad did a hell of a job raising me and I never once feel like I was 'abused'



This movement of anti punishment is just a load of bull****

I was spanked as a child, and I'm glad I was. I'm a disciplined person because of it. Nothing worse than a spoiled child that grows up with no discipline in their lives.

There's a huge difference between whippings and abuse.

This :tmb:
Some people definitely need to get the life. I highly doubt those who produce those loads of cowpoo have teenage (pre-teen) children or problematic children or any at all :rolleyes:

Every time this topic comes up, I am amazed how many people support hitting children. I am happy to say that my parents never did this to me, and if/when I have children of my own, I guarantee you that I will never hit/smack/whatever them either. Discipline and punishment never have to be smacking, so I don’t think they ever should be.
I'm happy for you... and your parents, seriously :) But not everyone (and not in all cases) can be reasoned w/o "close contact" unfortunately.

Simochka
17-05-10, 19:24
I'm happy for you... and your parents, seriously :) But not everyone (and not in all cases) can be reasoned w/o "close contact" unfortunately.

Yeah and that's when it's bad parenting. When they have to smack their child to get the control.

I don't think the people here who got smacked/ hit were happy about it and said thank you and couldn't wait for the next time to get hit. So why do the same to your own children when there are better ways to learn discipline?

Teenagers deserves to get slapped sometimes. Mostly in school. Because they are so messy. But it's prooved that they already get slapped at home.

And everyone I know respect their parents to death and even make songs and stuffs about them. And I don't have any friends who got smacked or hit by their parents.

Buffy87
17-05-10, 19:33
I certainly hope you don't hit your children. Its really lousy parenting. :(


They are not emmm "bad parents" per se. Lets not judge people like that. People are complicated. But the action in itself is bad parenting. I doubt you can call it "good parenting", mostly because is done when someone feels they are not in control.

Even if you don't use it as first resort, the fact is, people use violence when they don't know what else to do, out of temper, frustration and feeling a lack of control.
There are better ways rather than freaking out.


I never said they were bad parents, but rather that the particular behavior is bad parenting. Hitting children is not caring about them emotionally.



Beaten of being slapped!! There is no fundamental difference. Its all violence meant to control or humiliate somebody. I don't know one criminal who wasn't hit as a child by their parents.

Secondly, it has thought you violence is a means to an end!! For example, you think its now okay to hit your children to control them!!

Well I think that we are going to just have to agree to disagree because I can't agree with what you are saying at all.

I have no children currently but if and when I do I will parent them in the same was my parents parented me - I have grown up to be a perfectly good well rounded person. Again.. you insinuate that my parents smacking me was lousy parenting. I can assure you it is not.

And in fact I do call it good parenting - it is not a case of the parent not having control at all. I am not one for the "stand in the naughty corner and you'll behave" school of thought.

And there quite clearly IS a fundamental difference between been beaten to a bleeding pulp and being smacked on the hand ( which is the level of smacking I am talking about not been slapped across the face).

And you don't know one criminal who hasn't been hit by their parents? Really??? Well I don't know of any lawyers in my immediate circle of colleagues that weren't smacked by their parents - I fail to see the correlation.
However, I do know of plenty of criminals who have NEVER been hit by their parents yet have gone on to murder, rape, commit fraud and steal.

But whatever... we are not going to agree so we'll just have to leave it there.

Gregori
17-05-10, 19:50
Well I think that we are going to just have to agree to disagree because I can't agree with what you are saying at all.

I have no children currently but if and when I do I will parent them in the same was my parents parented me - I have grown up to be a perfectly good well rounded person. Again.. you insinuate that my parents smacking me was lousy parenting. I can assure you it is not.
I can assure you it is. Nobody does it whilst feeling in control of the situation. The fact that you'll parent your children the same way you were parented show that it does teach violence. You're going to be violent towards your children when you can't think of any other way to control the situation. Of course, it just teaches the morality of being a bully.

And in fact I do call it good parenting - it is not a case of the parent not having control at all. I am not one for the "stand in the naughty corner and you'll behave" school of thought. Its a case of parents not knowing any better! They resort to violence cause its easy to control people with violence. Its basically pretty mindless. There are better ways of parenting and they do work!!

And there quite clearly IS a fundamental difference between been beaten to a bleeding pulp and being smacked on the hand ( which is the level of smacking I am talking about not been slapped across the face).
No fundamental difference. Its all violence used to control people. The level of violence doesn't make the purpose any different.

And you don't know one criminal who hasn't been hit by their parents? Really??? Well I don't know of any lawyers in my immediate circle of colleagues that weren't smacked by their parents - I fail to see the correlation. I do know lawyers and I do know criminals. All criminals i know were beaten as children. Being a lawyer doesn't make you a fundamentally good person either, you spend a great deal of the time trying to get the bad guys off the hook.

However, I do know of plenty of criminals who have NEVER been hit by their parents yet have gone on to murder, rape, commit fraud and steal.
I doubt that's true.

Laralissa
17-05-10, 19:54
I doubt that's true.

I don't. Seriously, you're trying to tell us that the majority of murderers turned out that way because their parents gave them a light smack across the hand? Give over.

Gregori
17-05-10, 19:56
I don't. Seriously, you're trying to tell us that the majority of murderers turned out that way because their parents gave them a light smack across the hand? Give over.

You should. Every criminal I know ( and I know some pretty bad ones) was hit and abused by their parents. It certainly never prevents children from becoming murderers, rapists, thieves. Give over.

Laralissa
17-05-10, 19:59
hit and abused

Abused being the key word here. Nobody is talking about beating their children up, what we mean is a light smack, nothing more. Anyone who goes down the line of murdering after being tapped on the hand clearly had problems to begin with.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:01
Abused being the key word here. Nobody is talking about beating their children up, what we mean is a light smack, nothing more. Anyone who goes down the line of murdering after being tapped on the hand clearly had problems to begin with.

Hitting of any kind is abuse. The level of hitting doesn't change fundamentally what it all about. People hit children when they feel out of control because violence is the most simple way to control others. Its basically pretty mindless.

There is simply no need for it. Its just bad parenting.

Alpharaider47
17-05-10, 20:04
You should. Every criminal I know ( and I know some pretty bad ones) was hit and abused by their parents. It certainly never prevents children from becoming murderers, rapists, thieves. Give over.

There are other reasons that people become criminals.

xcrushterx
17-05-10, 20:05
@gregori The smacking doesn't have to be out of anger. I imagine most parents are completely calm whilst doing so.

Mad Tony
17-05-10, 20:07
There are other reasons that people become criminals.Indeed, and I'm pretty certain that not all criminals were smacked as children.

I'm on the fence on this one. I was never smacked/spanked a child but I do think the article in the first post doesn't distinguish between smacking and beating.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:11
Indeed, and I'm pretty certain that not all criminals were smacked as children.

I'm on the fence on this one. I was never smacked/spanked a child but I do think the article in the first post doesn't distinguish between smacking and beating.


And your pretty healthy individual for it. You're not a criminal or violent!

@gregori The smacking doesn't have to be out of anger. I imagine most parents are completely calm whilst doing so.

I've never seen any calm parent smack their child. Its nearly always out of anger, frustration and lack of control.

Mad Tony
17-05-10, 20:13
And your pretty healthy individual for it. You're not a criminal or violent!But what about Melonie Tomb Raider? Neither is she.

As I said, I'm neutral on this but I don't think it's fair to go out and state that all people who are violent criminals are like that because they were spanked as children.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 20:14
I've never seen any calm parent smack their child. Its nearly always out of anger, frustration and lack of control.

It's difficult to make any universal conclusions based on limited personal experience.

x2crazyidiot
17-05-10, 20:14
If a child deserves it, then smack then. Society is too pathetic nowadays. If a child needs to be taught a lesson, go right ahead. I can guarantee most of the older generations were hit if they were naughty as children (as was normal at the time), and they didn't turn out psychologically scarred did they.

Nenya awakens
17-05-10, 20:14
I was smacked as a child, never did me any harm, just made me realise that if I did something wrong I would be punished.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:16
But what about Melonie Tomb Raider? Neither is she.

As I said, I'm neutral on this but I don't think it's fair to go out and state that all people who are violent criminals are like that because they were spanked as children.


Its more complicated than that. There are lots of factors that result in someone being a criminal.


But one thing I've noticed with all bullies, criminals, delinquents in my life was that they were abused at home by their parents.


It's difficult to make any universal conclusions based on limited personal experience.

If that the case... anybody who saying " I was smacked as child and it never did me any harm" can't make universal conclusions
that's its a good idea based on their limited personal experience

Mad Tony
17-05-10, 20:18
Its more complicated than that. There are lots of factors that result in someone being a criminal.Well that's exactly my point.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 20:19
But one thing I've noticed with all bullies, criminals, delinquents in my life was that they were abused at home by their parents.

There is a difference between smacking/spanking and abuse. The former isn't done out of anger, and it's far, far milder than outright beating.

Is it fair to turn down one thing because something different than that thing produces bad results? It's illogical.

Alpharaider47
17-05-10, 20:19
Its more complicated than that. There are lots of factors that result in someone being a criminal.


But one thing I've noticed with all bullies, criminals, delinquents in my life was that they were abused at home by their parents.

That right there says it all. You appear to be missing the point, not only do not all criminals etc get abused, there are other factors as you said.
Consider Strain Theory, it's perhaps a better explanation, and one that is much more applicable. But we're getting off topic.

Laralissa
17-05-10, 20:20
For someone who's taking this so seriously, you sure didn't take the same approach in the thread where somebody posted a video of a child acually being *beaten*

I can't help but :vlol:

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:20
That right there says it all. You appear to be missing the point, not only do not all criminals etc get abused, there are other factors as you said.
Consider Strain Theory, it's perhaps a better explanation, and one that is much more applicable. But we're getting off topic.


Nearly all them actually do get abused. My sister is a lawyer. She knows alot about this.

xcrushterx
17-05-10, 20:21
I've never seen any calm parent smack their child. Its nearly always out of anger, frustration and lack of control.

Well, my parents never did it out of anger. :)

x2crazyidiot
17-05-10, 20:21
There's a huge difference between hitting a child because they've been naughty and abusing them physically.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:23
There is a difference between smacking/spanking and abuse. The former isn't done out of anger, and it's far, far milder than outright beating.

Is it fair to turn down one thing because something different than that thing produces bad results? It's illogical.

smacking and spanking is done out of anger, frustration and to try control somebody else through violence. Every time I've seen a parent hit their child, it was always done for those reasons

There's a huge difference between hitting a child because they've been naughty and abusing them physically.

There is no difference. Its ALL physical abuse.

For someone who's taking this so seriously, you sure didn't take the same approach in the thread where somebody posted a video of a child acually being *beaten*

I don't actually agree with children being hit at all..... but I do understand people's frustrations, tempers. I still have a sense of humour!~! :D

Laralissa
17-05-10, 20:25
I love how my post gets conveniently ignored.

x2crazyidiot
17-05-10, 20:27
There is no difference. Its ALL physical abuse.

Please, the intentions are far from the same. Parents who hit their child once want to teach them a lesson so they act in line, the other kinds just generally hate their kids. Yes, it's better to resolve a child's bratty behaviour without smacking, but there are some children that just won't get the picture. I mean have you even seen Supernanny? :p

Laralissa
17-05-10, 20:27
I don't actually agree with children being hit at all..... but I do understand people's frustrations, tempers. I still have a sense of humour!~! :D

So you're saying you dont agree with it happening, but you'll still laugh at it when it does? Makes a lot of sense...

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:28
Please, the intentions are far from the same. Parents who hit their child once want to teach them a lesson so they act in line, the other kinds just generally hate their kids. Yes, it's better to resolve a child's bratty behaviour without smacking, but there are some children that just won't get the picture. I mean have you even seen Supernanny?


Yes. I've seen it. And not once does she resort to hitting children!!!!
There are always other ways.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 20:29
smacking and spanking is done out of anger, frustration and to try control somebody else through violence. Every time I've seen a parent hit their child, it was always done for those reasons

Then what you witnessed was abuse.


There is no difference. Its ALL physical abuse.
There is a difference. I can't say there's no difference between red and blue when someone has already explained to me how different wave lengths produce them.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:30
Then what you witnessed was abuse.

All hitting children is just abuse!

There is a difference. I can't say there's no difference between red and blue when someone has already explained to me how different wave lengths produce them. The difference is merely the severity of the abuse, not the fundamental fact that it is abuse.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 20:32
All hitting children is just abuse!

. The difference is merely the severity of the abuse, not the fundamental fact that it is abuse.

I'm going to take a page from Socrates and ask you - what is abuse?

miss.haggard
17-05-10, 20:33
Discipling a child should be left to the parents, and ONLY the parents.

x2crazyidiot
17-05-10, 20:34
All hitting children is just abuse!

And that's what's wrong with society today, are we wrapping every child in cotton wool now from the big bad world?

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:35
Physically hurting people and corporal punishment is abuse. You would never do it to an adult ( because it would be called Assault and you would get thrown in prison) so there is no reason why you should be aloud to do it to a child. ( Who is a weaker individua, so hitting someone smaller than you is pretty wrong)

Really guys, there are better ways of diciplining children without physically hurting them. Society needs to move on.

And that's what's wrong with society today, are we wrapping every child in cotton wool now from the big bad world?
I can assure you its not. There is plenty of child abuse going on in society today.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 20:38
Physically hurting people and corporal punishment is abuse. You would never do it to an adult ( because it would be called Assault and you would get thrown in prison) so there is no reason why you should be aloud to do it to a child. ( Who is a weaker individua, so hitting someone smaller than you is pretty wrong)

Really guys, there are better ways of diciplining children without physically hurting them. Society needs to move on.
What are some better ways of disciplining children? Does reasoning work with a younger child who is still developing emotionally as well as intellectually?

x2crazyidiot
17-05-10, 20:42
I can assure you its not. There is plenty of child abuse going on in society today.

I know there is but I just hate the fact that EVERYTHING is considered abuse and/or offensive according to modern society, it's just pathetic now.

Gregori
17-05-10, 20:42
What are some better ways of disciplining children? Does reasoning work with a younger child who is still developing emotionally as well as intellectually?

Sometimes reasoning works. When that doesn't, there is always "TIME OUT" or putting them on "the Bold Step". If they keep messing, take away things from them, like their toys. I've seen this work. Its important for both parents to be very clear to the children about what their behavior will result in.

I've two nieces and it works on them perfectly fine. I really love them, even if they mess sometimes. Children are adorable, I can't understand anybody hitting them.

I know there is but I just hate the fact that EVERYTHING is considered abuse and/or offensive according to modern society, it's just pathetic now.

Well, If you did it to another adult....you would end up in prison for assault. That's why its considered abuse. Doing something like that to someone who is smaller and weaker than you is pretty pathetic.

EscondeR
17-05-10, 22:19
Yeah and that's when it's bad parenting. When they have to smack their child to get the control.

I don't think the people here who got smacked/ hit were happy about it and said thank you and couldn't wait for the next time to get hit. So why do the same to your own children when there are better ways to learn discipline?

Teenagers deserves to get slapped sometimes. Mostly in school. Because they are so messy. But it's prooved that they already get slapped at home.
Do you have children?

And everyone I know respect their parents to death and even make songs and stuffs about them. And I don't have any friends who got smacked or hit by their parents.
A. What makes you sure they have confessed to you, father? :rolleyes:

B. This is generally a premature conclusion.

Quasimodo
17-05-10, 22:27
Do you have children?

Do you?

JonnyT
17-05-10, 22:34
Wow.. that video was brainwashing o.O

A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

I agree :)

TRfan23
17-05-10, 22:42
Oh it used to be much much worse ;)

http://thebricktestament.com/exodus/the_ten_commandments/ex20_12p21_15p17.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------


I do disagree that parents shouldn't have the need to hit their child, okay I've been smacked when I was young. But tbh at the time it made me more scared of my parents and behave better. Then again I think that was mostly linked to some family issues and my timid nature :(

Don't worry though, now it's fine :)

Draco
17-05-10, 22:45
No wonder Europe is full of hippies.

MattTR
17-05-10, 22:46
I would NEVER, EVER by any means hit my child.. others may have their own opinion, but I don't believe in hitting as a punishment.

I believe in positive and negative reinforcement. If they do something bad, take something away, if they behave good, give them something they like.

Hitting them doesn't necessarily makes them a bully, but it makes them afraid and just makes me feel bad overall.

SkyPuppy
17-05-10, 22:48
I would NEVER, EVER by any means hit my child.. other's may have their own opinion, but I don't believe in htting as a punishment.

I believe in positive and negative reinforcement. If they do something bad, take something away, if they behave good, give them something they like.

Hitting them doesn't necessarily makes them a bully, but it makes them afraid and just makes me feel bad overall.

^ this. thank you, Matt.

i was never spanked or hit as a child... and i knew right from wrong. there are other ways. i sure as hell would not harm my child... i believe if you do that then you're just asking the child to be afraid of you... so you think you have power over someone.

MattTR
17-05-10, 22:50
^ this. thank you, Matt.

i was never spanked or hit as a child... and i knew right from wrong. there are other ways. i sure as hell would not harm my child... i believe if you do that then you're just asking the child to be afraid of you... so you think you have power over someone.

Thank you. :hug:

I took a Human Developmental Psychology class last term, and my teacher was a psychologist and a mentor. She was an expert and even said violence is never the answer.

For example, lets say the child has done three things wrong. You hit them three times, are they going to remember a hit for everything they did wrong? Nope.

Lets say you take three things away - TV, Computer, and Playing with friends. Are they going to remember what they did wrong now? Absolutely! - It works.

SkyPuppy
17-05-10, 23:00
Thank you. :hug:

I took a Human Developmental Psychology class last term, and my teacher was a psychologist and a mentor. She was an expert and even said violence is never the answer.

For example, lets say the child has done three things wrong. You hit them three times, are they going to remember a hit for everything they did wrong? Nope.

Lets say you take three things away - TV, Computer, and Playing with friends. Are they going to remember what they did wrong now? Absolutely! - It works.

exactly... it's like when you hurt an animal 5 minutes after they peed on the floor or whatnot, are they really going to remember what they did wrong 5 minutes later? no. kids work the same way.

Sir Croft
17-05-10, 23:04
I was spanked as a child, and I'm glad I was. I'm a disciplined person because of it. Nothing worse than a spoiled child that grows up with no discipline in their lives.

There's a huge difference between whippings and abuse.

This.

Mr.Burns
17-05-10, 23:05
Pain is an effective teacher.

Lara's home
17-05-10, 23:19
I was spanked as a child, and I'm glad I was. I'm a disciplined person because of it. Nothing worse than a spoiled child that grows up with no discipline in their lives.

There's a huge difference between whippings and abuse.

Thing is, that a good parent will not need to hit their child in order to discipline them. Violence is maybe the quickest way in order to "discipline" someone, but definetely not the best. As I've said before somewhere, my father gave me some smacks when I was a child. It was nothing too big, but since I knew he lost his temper like that, I lost respect for him, and while I love him as a father today, I will honestly admit that I don't respect him half as much as my mother, who never hit me.
I've never seen or heard of a situation where hitting a child is necessary.

Tombraiderx08
17-05-10, 23:23
Pain is an effective teacher.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/jombafomb/sUPERNANNY.jpg
Supernanny does not approve... But I do :D
I mean, like someone else said, not all kids can sit down and listen and understand things like you or I would, and when spanking a kid, you shouldnt spank them like you would fight a grown man, just a swat or two on the rear and tell them whatever it was they did was wrong.

larafan25
17-05-10, 23:31
A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

I have seen first hand a child turn into a bully based on such forms of punishment. It may not be so for all children though.

As well, there is a fine line between smacking out of anger and for punishment, and that line can very easily be crossed once you commit one slap.

I think there are better ways to handle children.:)

Rai
17-05-10, 23:32
Smacking a child should be a last resort and done rarely, not just for anything. I do think that alternative methods of punishment should be tried instead of or definitely first. As Matt said, taking stuff away is a good way (worked for my son). For young children things like star charts is a good 'training' method. If the child gets enough stars in a week they get a treat at the weekend. Taking privileges away from teens is effective. The very rare slap on the bottom isn't going to do any long term damage though and shouldn't be put in the same league as a beating. Regular beatings is child abuse and of course is despicable behaviour from a parent or someone else in authority, such as a teacher.

Apparently SuperNanny can't spell :whi:

Gladous
17-05-10, 23:42
So what's next? Banning parents at yelling at their kids? I mean, what kind of discipline are you suppose to give your kids now a days? I was spanked as a little kid and sure it scared me but I never got hurt. It did me well.

People give spanking too much unnecessary publicity. It's not like they're being beaten! :rolleyes:

aktrekker
18-05-10, 00:42
For every study showing spanking harms the child, there is another showing that spanking has no detrimental effects. So it comes down to a matter of preference.

I was spanked. No problem here, I'm a normal, well-adjusted person. I knew if I did something wrong that I would get spanked. I tried not to get into trouble.

The crime rate was much lower 100 years ago, when physical punishment was dealt, even in school.
Today, the crime rate is much higher, when we have tried to abolish all forms of physical punishment.
Children are disobedient, defiant, disrespectful, belligerent. Apparently you tend to disregard limits if there is no significant consequence.

Just an observation about the state of society.

Lara's home
18-05-10, 00:52
The crime rate was much lower 100 years ago, when physical punishment was dealt, even in school.
Today, the crime rate is much higher, when we have tried to abolish all forms of physical punishment.
Children are disobedient, defiant, disrespectful, belligerent. Apparently you tend to disregard limits if there is no significant consequence.

Just an observation about the state of society.
Sure of that? I mean, sure we catch a lot more criminals today, but that doesn't mean that the crime rate was any less. With lack of technology, for example, it would be harder to actully catch them.

Statistics rarely tell the truth.

And about violence, etc. The crime rate in norway is really low. Yet we hardly punish the criminals. They are isolated from the community/outside prison, perhaps, but get education, the option to excersise etc.

Admles
18-05-10, 00:54
Discipling a child should be left to the parents, and ONLY the parents.

So only parents should turn their children into disciples? :ton:

Gladous
18-05-10, 00:56
Some kids at my age just make me want to go over there and spank them myself! :ton:

I was at the mall the other day and there was this boy who was probably 4 and he kept hollering and acting like a monkey and his mom just stood there and kept ignoring him. I was like,"Do they honestly think that's good discipline?"

Or last Friday I went to dinner with my parents and there was another kid about the same age and he spilled his drink on the floor and when they mopped it, it was still slippery but he just gets up out of his chair and runs around everywhere and he fell. His parents told him finally to sit down so that won't happen. Well, that didn't last long, he just got up and ran around everywhere.

Do parents really not know how to stick to their words? If you're going to say something, stick to it! Sometimes, I feel like I could do better at disciplining kids than a lot of parents. :p

Tony9595
18-05-10, 00:58
Raise your hand and smack your children :ohn:

Gladous
18-05-10, 01:04
Raise your hand and smack your children :ohn:

LMAO! :vlol:

That was baaad! :ton:
















:tmb:

Catracoth
18-05-10, 01:23
I can honestly say that I've only been hit once when I was a kid, but it was hardly a light smack upside one's head - but my mother felt bad for it and never did it again; since then, she's resorted to negotiations and positive/negative reinforcement and it's always worked.

I'm against physically disciplining your child - there will always be times where being calm and trying to talk to your child will not work, but I will always prefer raising your voice instead of hitting.

irjudd
18-05-10, 01:29
My dad raised his voice and it scarred me. :(

Tony9595
18-05-10, 01:36
^ Aww you can have a hug :hug:

Go and report him to the authorities, he can't do such a thing! Who does he think he is?! :mad:

MangelinaJolie
18-05-10, 01:53
I was spanked as a child, and I'm glad I was. I'm a disciplined person because of it. Nothing worse than a spoiled child that grows up with no discipline in their lives.

There's a huge difference between whippings and abuse.

I agree with this. I don't think there is anything wrong with spanking as long as isn't used for petty purposes... in other words, it's situational.

Capt. Murphy
18-05-10, 02:01
I will reemphasize that it should be up to a parent how they discipline their child. I can imagine that a parent would tend to get angry - but they should realize a kid doesn't have the life experience of an adult, and I do believe disciplining is part of child rearing so that they can learn -and the quicker more pronounced the message -the better (or less likely the parent will have to repeat what they expect of the child).

Having read some of the replies of others I will have to say that I think that even if a parent uses corporal punishment as a form of discipline - they should use it wisely, and try to gauge how it is affecting their child/children. It should also be balanced out with rewards and love. If all a kid gets is punishment for bad things, and never shown any affection - then a child may tend to resent their parent/s. And I'd also be willing to bet that kids that have parents that do (hit, smack, and/or spank) them AND are also not shown very much Love and respect are more likely to be bullies, or turn out to be thieves, punks, or whatever. I know that might be a blanket statement and can't be true all the time... But, I'm just saying that -IMO- it's probably more likely.

Teaching a child to do right is a form of Love -- so they can learn right from wrong, what's a stupid thing to do and why, etc. Yet, not correcting a child is far more hurtful than any form of corporal punishment or grounding and restrictions to activities.

MattTR
18-05-10, 02:03
Pain is an effective teacher.

I disagree with you for once. :whi:

Draco
18-05-10, 03:20
exactly... it's like when you hurt an animal 5 minutes after they peed on the floor or whatnot, are they really going to remember what they did wrong 5 minutes later? no. kids work the same way.

That's why you explain to them why they are getting punished. You think your scenario works any better with timeouts or taking stuff away in any case?

aquaflute
18-05-10, 03:52
I'm kind of against abolishing this, not that my parents ever smacked me when I was a child, but I just don't think any method in parenting should be banned by law. And IMO smacking is just one of those necessary methods out there. As long as parents use it under control and do not turn it into abuse, it should not be banned.

Although then one might argue what really is the difinitive line between smacking and abuse, I think it comes down to two things, no permanent damage and purpose. And these two should go together, if the parent truly cares about the child and only want to smack him/her for his/her own good, then there is little chance the child is going to be physically hurt permanently, it might leave a mental scar, but it can heal and warn the children of what to expect in the future. Abuse is a totally different matter with twisted purposes.

And besides, parenting IMO is so complicated so it is definitely more beneficial for the parents to have more options they can try out there until they find what is best for their children. So IMO smacking should never be encouraged, but should not be completely out of option when it comes down to parenting.

Lizard of Oz
18-05-10, 04:16
I think it's reasonable to spank bratty kids :p

As long as the adult does not uses all their strenght.

Now slapping, I'd hate to see that.

lunavixen
18-05-10, 07:52
A child... Make that; MOST Children can NOT be reasoned with as well as a mature adult. Disciplining a child when they do something they know they shouldn't do will not turn them into a bully. And pain can get through to a child's senses quicker than "negotiating". :rolleyes:

I will say that no parent should hit a child in anger. If the child does something wrong - give them a warning. If they continue then they've earned their punishment.

What that punishment is is up to the parent. Ground them? Fine. Spank or Slap them? Fine. If they're the parent then other people should mind their own business and STFU. :wve:

exactly, i got smacked as a kid but i turned out fine, there is a difference between discipline and abuse, the trick is knowing when and where to stop

MiCkiZ88
18-05-10, 11:41
Abuse and a smack are a different thing. I know it from experience. A smack, twisted ear were enough to warn me about not doing those things again, but being completely abused just made me scared about everything for a few good years.

I do not want to abuse my children, but I will give them a spank if they have done something horrible. Slight spank, smack on the back of your head will not turn anyone evil ffs.

Hitting is what is wrong.

igonge
18-05-10, 14:39
anyway like igonge said, its not like beating on a childe WWF style.

:vlol: Now THAT would be abuse lol

*laralover*
18-05-10, 14:48
This is a funny thread after coming home from work :p Everyday in town i see brats left right and centre and most just run around screaming and climbing on stuff :cen: The parents just chat away on the mobile or something. If i had a kid it would know its place. I think you just have to do things to make them see who is boss like sending them to a naughty step or something. One day in Tesco's i saw a guy leave his screaming kid on the floor. The kid soon stopped his nonsense once he realized his dad went off :p He came back of course lol Id only smack a child if it was doing something violent like kicking me. A light smack on the bottom it worked when i was a child so i dont know why it should be abandoned.

igonge
18-05-10, 14:51
A light smack on the bottom it worked when i was a child so i dont know why it should be abandoned.

I know right, humans have way too many rights these days.