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Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 09:32
Al-Qaeda's third-ranking operative, an Egyptian who was a founding member of the terrorist network and a key conduit to Osama bin Laden, has been killed in Pakistan, according to a statement Monday from al-Qaeda that U.S. intelligence officials believe is accurate.

A U.S. official said there is "strong reason" to believe that Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, known as Sheik Saeed al-Masri, apparently was killed by a CIA drone strike in Pakistan's tribal belt within the past two weeks.

The official described it as a significant victory against the terrorist group.

"Al-Masri was the group's chief operating officer, with a hand in everything from finances to operational planning," the official said. "He was also the organization's prime conduit to bin Laden and Zawahiri," he added, referring to al-Qaeda's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri. "He was key to al-Qaeda's command and control."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/01/AR2010060100466.html


Looks like Obama did something right http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif The increased drone attacks appear to have worked. Hopefully this will put Al Qaeda into disarray and reduce their number of attacks against innocent people.

lara c. fan
01-06-10, 09:35
Great news!

patriots88888
01-06-10, 09:38
Looks like Obama did something right...

My, my. Will wonders ever cease? It's not like the man is pure evil. :p Or was the 'right' meaning something more, let's say, Consevative? :whi:

Peanut
01-06-10, 09:40
Terrorism is pointless.
It makes the terrorist just as bad as who ever Did whatever. -.-

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 09:43
My, my. Will wonders ever cease? It's not like the man is pure evil. :p Or was the 'right' meaning something more, let's say, Consevative? :whi:

I did mean correct, but now that you mention it that fits too :p In any case, it sounds like Obama made the correct call to ramp up the predator drone attacks so I must give credit where credit is due :)

Also, I don't want Obama to fail. I think a lot of his policies will fail, but I don't want him to fail. I'd much rather have everything work out for the best, so I'm glad to hear about victories like this one :)

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:07
Its just murder without a trial. We don't want to stoop to the levels of terrorists.

robm_2007
01-06-10, 10:20
Its just murder without a trial. We don't want to stoop to the levels of terrorists.

really?:o:(

why not just knock out all of the terrorists that attack and kill troops and civilians, instead of using live ammunition, and then give them a trial?

some ppl dont deserve a trial, especially terrorists. sometimes, the only way to make an impact on the terrorist's organizations is to kill the leaders.

hooray for his death:yah:

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:25
really?:o:(

why not just knock out all of the terrorists that attack and kill troops and civilians, instead of using live ammunition, and then give them a trial?

some ppl dont deserve a trial, especially terrorists. sometimes, the only way to make an impact on the terrorist's organizations is to kill the leaders.

hooray for his death:yah: Thats why there is a such thing as innocent until proven guilty. You can't just go around murdering who you like.
Killing terrorist leaders doesn't stop terrorism, it probably creates even more terrorists. Nothing changes until you address the root causes of terrorism. There was terrorism for years in nothern ireland and the solution to the violence was in the end a political solution, taking away the need for terrorism.

Cheering someones death, even if they are not a very nice person is pretty callous.

lara c. fan
01-06-10, 10:28
Thats why there is a such thing as innocent until proven guilty. You can't just go around murdering who you like.
Killing terrorist leaders doesn't stop terrorism, it probably creates even more terrorists. Nothing changes until you address the root causes of terrorism.

Sure. Don't take out the leaders and potentially destabilize the organization.

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:29
Sure. Don't take out the leaders and potentially destabilize the organization.

There will always be more people to replace those who are killed

IceColdLaraCroft
01-06-10, 10:32
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/01/AR2010060100466.html


Looks like Obama did something right http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif The increased drone attacks appear to have worked. Hopefully this will put Al Qaeda into disarray and reduce their number of attacks against innocent people.

You say it like he personally directed the drone. This has been going on for YEARS.

Thats why there is a such thing as innocent until proven guilty. You can't just go around murdering who you like.
Killing terrorist leaders doesn't stop terrorism, it probably creates even more terrorists. Nothing changes until you address the root causes of terrorism.

especially when many will see him as a martyr, but another issue is actually getting rid of this term "terrorism" it was ill defined and has been abused by countries/states who use it against their opposition rather than true terrorists. AlQaeda is a true terrorist organization, but the world needs to delegitimize them. Ideologically subvert the organization.

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 10:36
Its just murder without a trial.

Not during war.

We don't want to stoop to the levels of terrorists.

Pride is the worst possible reason to do anything. I know who I am and I don't care about proving I'm better than anyone else. If killing this guy will disrupt a terrorist organization and save people's lives then that's what we should do.

Thats why there is a such thing as innocent until proven guilty. You can't just go around murdering who you like.
Killing terrorist leaders doesn't stop terrorism, it probably creates even more terrorists. Nothing changes until you address the root causes of terrorism.

Some things are non-negotiable. As long as the terrorists believe that they have the fundamental right to do crap like this (http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm), then there's no peaceful solution possible.

You say it like he personally directed the drone. This has been going on for YEARS.

The article says Obama increased the use of the drones.

The death of Yazid would represent one of the most significant blows against al-Qaeda since the CIA began a major escalation in the pace of drone strikes in 2008, which has been accelerated under President Obama (http://www.whorunsgov.com/Profiles/Barack_Obama).

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 10:37
Its just murder without a trial. We don't want to stoop to the levels of terrorists.Oh dear, what a shame.

There's just no pleasing some people. Good news as always. :tmb:

robm_2007
01-06-10, 10:39
Thats why there is a such thing as innocent until proven guilty. You can't just go around murdering who you like.
Killing terrorist leaders doesn't stop terrorism, it probably creates even more terrorists. Nothing changes until you address the root causes of terrorism. There was terrorism for years in nothern ireland and the solution to the violence was in the end a political solution, taking away the need for terrorism.

Cheering someones death, even if they are not a very nice person is pretty callous.

that i agree with; but i thought that he was a confirmed terrorist?

that i dont agree with at all. if they are a bad, person....no, an evil person, then i have no respect for them, and applaud at their demise. i cant imagine these terrorists being bargained with anything that is plausable, because they only want "Death to America," and thats certainly not going to happen without us trying to stop them. of course there will always be ppl to replace those who are killed or taken into custody, but that means that we are taking away possible replacements.

i know its callous to think the way i do, but im not going to feel bad or sorry for them, cuz they dont deserve remorse, and they dont want or need any.:o

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:44
Not during war.
Its not a war. One side is not an army. Terrorists are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

Pride is the worst possible reason to do anything. I know who I am and I don't care about proving I'm better than anyone else. If killing this guy will disrupt a terrorist organization and save people's lives then that's what we should do. There is no guarantee that it will save anybodies lives as it makes this guy a martyr and create more terrorists who have more anger against the US. If a country becomes as bad as the people its fighting, whats the point? It just become two sets of murderers.


Some things are non-negotiable. As long as the terrorists believe that they have the fundamental right to do crap like this (http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm), then there's no peaceful solution possible. Some people thought the Northern Irish conflict was non-negotiable either, but that proved to be untrue and now there is a government that represents all people in that territory. And the IRA and Loyalist groups committed unspeakable against catholics and protestants. Violence just creates more violence in return. As long as US thinks it has the right to murder people and invade their land, no peaceful solution will be possible either.

Oh dear, what a shame.

There's just no pleasing some people. Good news as always. :tmb:

Murder doesn't please me, no matter who is commiting it.

Cochrane
01-06-10, 10:47
I want one of these drones myself. Not (necessarily) armed, I just think it is a cool piece of technology.

Its just murder without a trial. We don't want to stoop to the levels of terrorists.

I am all for human rights for suspected terrorists, and strongly against anything that is similar to stooping to their level. These drone attacks, however, I can support. The fight against Taliban and Al Quaeda is essentially a war, and I donít see this violating any international law. This is not about people who may or may not have placed a bomb in a crowded place, but rather about ones who attack more or less openly with guns.

One can debate whether the US is doing enough intelligence-wise to ensure that no civilians are targeted. But if they have enough reason to assume that their target is military, then killing the guy with a drone is as legitimate as doing it with a sniper team, a special operations squad, or a full-out attack with tanks and whatever.

lara c. fan
01-06-10, 10:47
There will always be more people to replace those who are killed

If you destabilize the organization, it gives you a damn good chance to swoop in and crush it.

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:50
If you destabilize the organization, it gives you a damn good chance to swoop in and crush it.

They have been using violence for the best part of nine years and the organisation hasn't collapsed. As long as there is support for the goals of the organisation, there will be violence and more people to replace those who have been killed. You have to remove the causes of terrorism in order to combat it

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 10:50
Murder doesn't please me, no matter who is commiting it.Same here, except this isn't murder.

robm_2007
01-06-10, 10:51
Its not a war. One side is not an army. Terrorists are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

There is no guarantee that it will save anybodies lives as it makes this guy a martyr and create more terrorists who have more anger against the US. If a country becomes as bad as the people its fighting, whats the point? It just become two sets of murderers.


Some people thought the Northern Irish conflict was non-negotiable either, but that proved to be untrue and now there is a government that represents all people in that territory. And the IRA and Loyalist groups committed unspeakable against catholics and protestants. Violence just creates more violence in return. As long as US thinks it has the right to murder people and invade their land, no peaceful solution will be possible either.

i admire you opinion, but i think that it would be better that the US invade the Middle Eastern countries than for them to come to the US. we are not only there to kill, but to protect the innocent people and help the civilians.

and im not sure what Irish conflict you are talking about, but i know its in no way comparable to Al-Qaeda or the Taliban. They are the most wanted ppl in the world, becuae they did and do commit terrible crimes every second.

What if Hitler was caught before his suicide? would he deserve equal rights to a fair trial?

we are "murdering" to stop even worse things from happening and to put an end to those things from continuing.

Cochrane
01-06-10, 10:51
Its not a war. One side is not an army. Terrorists are criminals and should be dealt with as such.
Generally yes. However, the difference between terrorists and military combattants is rather fluid here. An Al Qaeda member performing hostile acts in a civilized country is a terrorist and a criminal (suspect) and should be treated as such, with all the rights that arise from that. In Afghanistan, however, the situation is very different. Legal structures do not exist and the people you call terrorists are the de-facto government in many local areas. It is true that they do not form an army in the classic, political sense, but their actions and power make them far more than plain criminals.

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:51
Same here, except this isn't murder.

Yes it is :)

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 10:52
Yes it is :)Well no it's not, it's already been explained in previous posts. :)

Gregori
01-06-10, 10:54
Its killing another human being without trial and not in a war situation. I think thats murder.

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 10:54
Its not a war. One side is not an army. Terrorists are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

It is a war but one side refuses to wear uniforms, so according to the Geneva Convention they are to be executed on the spot.

There is no guarantee that it will save anybodies lives as it makes this guy a martyr and create more terrorists who have more anger against the US.

They have martyrs all the time. Some guy goes into the local restaurant with a bomb and kills a bunch of kids, he's a martyr. This particular person was responsible for recruitment and finances of the entire organization, so without him they will be in disarray (hopefully for a long time).

If a country becomes as bad as the people its fighting, whats the point?

Survival.

As long as US thinks it has the right to murder people and invade their land, no peaceful solution will be possible either.

And this is why the conflict will go on forever. The US will not concede that anyone has a right to commit genocide, oppress women, or violate any number of other human rights. Therefore the US won't back down unless people stop supporting terrorists who want to do those things. People do not have the right to beat 12 year old girls for refusing an arranged marriage, or to cut people's heads off to make a political statement. End of story.

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 10:55
Its killing another human being without trial and not in a war situation. I think thats murder.Except it is in a war situation...

Johnnay
01-06-10, 11:05
I did mean correct, but now that you mention it that fits too :p In any case, it sounds like Obama made the correct call to ramp up the predator drone attacks so I must give credit where credit is due :)

Also, I don't want Obama to fail. I think a lot of his policies will fail, but I don't want him to fail. I'd much rather have everything work out for the best, so I'm glad to hear about victories like this one :)

meh. No one is perfect even the president so I agree with you there Jenni when you mentioned that Some of Obamas policies will fail.
Same here, except this isn't murder.

more of like a planned operation against that man wouldn't you say

Drone
01-06-10, 11:39
Looks like Obama did something right

obama made lame jokes about predator drones while their strikes killed innocent civilians in Pakistan. killing 1 terrorist makes 'em happy, killing civilians caused their jokes ... what's next

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 11:42
obama made lame jokes about predator drones while their strikes killed innocent civilians in Pakistan.

I wasn't aware of that. I didn't even know he had increased the drone attacks until this article said it (most of the local coverage of him has been regarding the healthcare plan or his reaction to the Arizona law about illegal immigration).

igonge
01-06-10, 11:43
Go CIA! lol

Drone
01-06-10, 11:44
I wasn't aware of that. I didn't even know he had increased the drone attacks until this article said it (most of the local coverage of him has been regarding the healthcare plan or his reaction to the Arizona law about illegal immigration).

he did. somewhere in May.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/president-obamas-joke-about-predator-drones-draws-fire-.html

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 11:53
he did. somewhere in May.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/president-obamas-joke-about-predator-drones-draws-fire-.html

I see. Yeah, that could have been thought out better. It sounds like he was trying to make a classic over-protective father joke and it didn't occur to him that anyone would be offended by a reference to the predator drones. I don't think he intended to make light of any civilian casualties, but if it seems ignorant that he didn't realize people would be offended then fair enough.

Rai
01-06-10, 11:54
Um, that's good I guess.

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 12:03
more of like a planned operation against that man wouldn't you sayAs part of a bigger war, yes.

Catapharact
01-06-10, 12:11
For the love of all that is good, people are actually LOOKING DOWN on the fact that Al-Quaker's 3rd in command got his butt blown away?!

I think you need to clearly see the situation and the problem with Al-Qaeda... These guys are willing to go as far and blowing themselves up right in front of MOSQUES for goodness sakes. Have people forgotten already about the botched Time Square bombing plan?! What will take for you people to realize that any given strike against their command structure is good and all the more welcomed.

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 12:14
I think you need to clearly see the situation and the problem with Al-Qadea... These guys are willing to go as far and blowing themselves up right in front of MOSQUES for goodness sakes. Have people forgotten already about the botched Time Square bombing plan?! What will take for you people to realize that any given strike against their command structure is good and all the more welcomed.

:tmb:

patriots88888
01-06-10, 12:31
For the love of all that is good, people are actually LOOKING DOWN on the fact that Al-Quaker's 3rd in command got his butt blown away?!

I think you need to clearly see the situation and the problem with Al-Qadea... These guys are willing to go as far and blowing themselves up right in front of MOSQUES for goodness sakes. Have people forgotten already about the botched Time Square bombing plan?! What will take for you people to realize that any given strike against their command structure is good and all the more welcomed.

I've said all along that I support any retaliation against these nut jobs. It's just a shame it has taken so long to accomplish some of the goals which were put forth many years ago. If nothing more, it sends a clear message that these terrorists are not untouchable... and will meet their demise eventually with much needed persistence and resolve.

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 12:39
I've said all along that I support any retaliation against these nut jobs. It's just a shame it has taken so long to accomplish some of the goals which were put forth many years ago. If nothing more, it sends a clear message that these terrorists are not untouchable... and will meet their demise eventually with much needed persistence and resolve.I agree. What we certainly don't need however are appeasers who object to making the world a safer place.

irjudd
01-06-10, 12:56
It won't solve anything. Two more will rise up in his stead.

patriots88888
01-06-10, 13:01
It won't solve anything. Two more will rise up in his stead.

I'm not so sure solving is what this strike was all about in the first place. I don't believe you can let terrorist attacks go without some form of retaliation. Otherwise (just as with common criminals), where is the message of consequence?

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 13:03
It won't solve anything. Two more will rise up in his stead.

But this guy controlled the finances. If he stashed a lot of the money in a Swiss bank account and didn't tell anyone else the account number, then they won't be able to get that money :pi:

MattTR
01-06-10, 14:12
Well it's definitely not murder, but I'm not so keen about death in any circumstance..

But if it has to do with Al-Qaeda, then great! Let's kill them all off. :tmb:

But this guy controlled the finances. If he stashed a lot of the money in a Swiss bank account and didn't tell anyone else the account number, then they won't be able to get that money :pi:

If he's dead, someone's going to get that money.. not sure who, but someone will.

irjudd
01-06-10, 14:20
I understand that these loons need to be taken care of, but it makes me feel uncomfortable to see lots of people "thumb-upping" at anybody getting killed. It just feels morbid.

MattTR
01-06-10, 14:23
I understand that these loons need to be taken care of, but it makes me feel uncomfortable to see lots of people "thumb-upping" at anybody getting killed. It just feels morbid.

I'm sure they we're doing more than a "thumb-upping" when they killed thousands of our innocent people. :rolleyes:

irjudd
01-06-10, 14:25
I do have a grasp of the situation, Matt. I don't understand why their malicious spirit should make it cool for us to cheer on at more loss of life, even if that life is being misused for ill purposes.

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 14:26
I understand that these loons need to be taken care of, but it makes me feel uncomfortable to see lots of people "thumb-upping" at anybody getting killed. It just feels morbid.People are "thumb-upping" at the idea that because this person has been killed hopefully the world can be a safer place. Nothing morbid about that.

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 14:29
People are "thumb-upping" at the idea that because this person has been killed hopefully the world can be a safer place. Nothing morbid about that.

Yeah, pretty much. Not so much "Yay for death!" but more "Yay for this guy getting stopped and hopefully less innocent people will be killed now!"

MattTR
01-06-10, 14:32
I do have a grasp of the situation, Matt. I don't understand why their malicious spirit should make it cool for us to cheer on at more loss of life, even if that life is being misused for ill purposes.

I do understand, it just makes me kind of angry when people seem to be defending them.. what's the point in living a life that is misused for ill purposes anyway? :(

Yeah, pretty much. Not so much "Yay for death!" but more "Yay for this guy getting stopped and hopefully less innocent people will be killed now!"

That's how I look at it anyway. :tmb:

Mad Tony
01-06-10, 15:04
It is quite annoying when people are reacting to this by saying "This is murder, we shouldn't stoop to their level" and just generally being opposed to this. This guy was one of the top men in a terrorist organization responsible for killing tens of thousands of people globally. This man was a part of that. By killing him we can help to destabilize Al-Qaeda.

ajrich17901
01-06-10, 15:36
He got what he deserved, I feel no pity.

Alpharaider47
01-06-10, 16:07
My, my. Will wonders ever cease? It's not like the man is pure evil. :p Or was the 'right' meaning something more, let's say, Consevative? :whi:

I just ask "How's all that Hope and Change working out for ya?" And now we've got the Gulf oil spill...

At least we're making some form of progress. Hopefully this puts them in a bit of a bind. Haha to quote Jurassic Park "They should all be destroyed"

patriots88888
01-06-10, 17:34
I just ask "How's all that Hope and Change working out for ya?" And now we've got the Gulf oil spill...

It was just some good natured ribbing between Wardy and myself. Nothing to be taken too seriously. I'm believe that at least she understood that.

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 17:57
It was just some good natured ribbing between Wardy and myself. Nothing to be taken too seriously. I'm believe that at least she understood that.

Yup, no offense taken or intended :)

Alpharaider47
01-06-10, 18:58
It was just some good natured ribbing between Wardy and myself. Nothing to be taken too seriously. I'm believe that at least she understood that.

Yup, no offense taken or intended :)

Haha ok, sorry about that. Since HS where my English teacher was insanely pro-Obama, I've been a little touchy on that. He's not exactly my favourite president :vlol:

Ward Dragon
01-06-10, 19:03
Haha ok, sorry about that. Since HS where my English teacher was insanely pro-Obama, I've been a little touchy on that. He's not exactly my favourite president :vlol:

It's okay :p It's definitely aggravating when teachers of all people are trying to shove political views onto students instead of at least attempting to be objective and present all the facts. I still remember when I was student teaching last semester and the principal of the school put up a board right in front of the entrance of the school to proudly proclaim that Obama had won the "Noble" Peace Prize. If they really must sing Obama's praises they could at least get it right :p

Alpharaider47
01-06-10, 19:11
It's okay :p It's definitely aggravating when teachers of all people are trying to shove political views onto students instead of at least attempting to be objective and present all the facts. I still remember when I was student teaching last semester and the principal of the school put up a board right in front of the entrance of the school to proudly proclaim that Obama had won the "Noble" Peace Prize. If they really must sing Obama's praises they could at least get it right :p

Yeah :vlol: over the past few years I've really become disenchanted with this country, and not a lot is helping to change my mind as of late XD.